Thread 507855114 - /pol/ [Archived: 913 hours ago]

Anonymous Unknown
6/17/2025, 7:31:39 PM No.507855114
abd-borc-471x261
abd-borc-471x261
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Can someone explain to me why the debt ceiling is so important and why its always the focus of every administration?

How exactly did nations of the past get over insane amounts of debt? And is it really such a big deal as to take up the entire focus of the nations politicians and their strategy? Seriously I scratch my head cause its mentioned like a incoming asteroid that can only be avoided if some bill or whatever is passed.

And for a financial juggernaut that has the worlds economy dependent on wall street why cant they just ignore it and suffer no consequences? Like if a man owns a well that is a towns only source of water but has a lot of IOUs to different townsfolk. Why couldn't he just ignore them when they ask for favors? They still depend on his well for water so they can't just refuse to deal with him and his giant castle with guards means you can't just grab a mod of other people ripped off and threaten or force him to pay back his IOUs.

Maybe I got this completely wrong but I just dont understand the dangers the debt ceiling poses
Replies: >>507855115 >>507855118 >>507855120 >>507855124 >>507855126 >>507855128 >>507855131 >>507855135 >>507855136 >>507855137
Anonymous Unknown
6/17/2025, 7:35:23 PM No.507855115
>>507855114 (OP)
Debt celling is retarded
>congress mandates spending above income
>loans are taken to fulfill this mandatory spending
>le debt celling is getting near!
>maybe we will just stop paying our bills but refuse to actually default, how about that? :3
>raise the debt celling as always after a long, retarded political theatre where you use "muh deficit" as an excuse to cut government spending that actually helps anyone but defence contractors and israel
Anonymous Unknown
6/17/2025, 8:00:26 PM No.507855116
The english created a scheme with their central bank where they sold their debt to people that would otherwise want to destroy them or destabilize england from within in order to get as many of their enemies invested in their country as possible. This meant that anybody that would want to destroy them would be hesitant if they were the beneficiaries of english interest payments. Essentially paying off people to not hurt you.

The US copied this and is why most of our founding fathers were against a central bank because they knew it would just turn the US into britian 2.0. Because not only does the central bank buy off foreign enemies, it buys off local politicians. For reference Henry Clay had a massive career ruining debt from his gambling addiction that a bank paid off for him in exchange for him advocating for central banking.

The debt started, surprise surprise, when the US created the federal reserve, the federal reserve's main purpose being to finance WWI. So by raising the debt ceiling the US sells more of its debt and gets more power.

The reason they freak out about it is that by reducing US debt would weaken the US international standing since countries would be less likely to negotiate with them. Meaning if the US ever went its own way there would definitely be some huge conflict in the near future.

So it's not so much that there's so much debt, it's that if the US paid off its debt obligations and then didn't accrue any more debt nobody would care about the existence of the US anymore because they'd stop paying them off
Replies: >>507855117 >>507855738
Anonymous Unknown
6/17/2025, 8:16:35 PM No.507855117
>>507855116
But i dont get it. Britain and US fought all these wars to put its rivals in check. Why do all that but then allow them to invest and set up shop in your own homeland and promise to give them your lunch money every Friday.

And how the hell did they get away with it? Like you said they intentionally offered it to people who want to see them dead or in chaos. So wouldnt it have been a matter of time before they accumulated enough subversive influence and wealth that they could just overthrow or take over the nation from within? I mean yeah there's that debt but with Britain now defeated and turned into a vassal they can just pass the buck (sell the debt) to another of her enemies? Or adopt the scheme and sell your own debt to say Britain's ally that now hates you for overthrowing it?
Replies: >>507855119
Anonymous Unknown
6/17/2025, 8:20:42 PM No.507855118
>>507855114 (OP)
>Can someone explain to me why the debt ceiling is so important and why its always the focus of every administration?
The debt ceiling was a non-issue until Gingrich became Speaker and the Republicans turned into an obstructionist party because of religious conservatives viewing Clinton as the embodiment of everything they hated about baby boomers and where America had gone over the last 30ish years and thus Satan incarnate.
Anonymous Unknown
6/17/2025, 8:30:17 PM No.507855119
>>507855117
How do you take over a system that other countries are invested in? English centralized banking is like a republic version of international finance making sure no "investor" is above the other
Replies: >>507855122
Anonymous Unknown
6/17/2025, 9:12:37 PM No.507855120
34431560._SY540_
34431560._SY540_
md5: 85eba7842318771fad6f49f84a89c718🔍
>>507855114 (OP)
>Like if a man owns a well that is a towns only source of water but has a lot of IOUs to different townsfolk.
In this analogy, the man started giving out promises of water his well would collect in the future instead of the water he had directly on hand. Then everybody else started trading those promises, making their own promises of promises, etc. It got complicated and the man was concerned that he wouldn't have enough water to meet everyone's promises. So he did away with the water system entirely, now he only gives out promises of nothing. You can still trade those promises for real things including water, but they're no longer directly related to each other.

>Why couldn't he just ignore them
Because his empty promises are the glue that holds his society together. As long as people believe they can be traded for water and other real assets, they'll keep using them. But if people catch wind of the idea that their empty promises might be worthless, they'll dump them en masse and the whole system falls apart. This is why he can't just arbitrarily decide that some promises are worthless. Everyone, friends, enemies, and even he himself use those promises for everything they do. He has a vested interest in upholding the promise system if he wants to go on living.
Replies: >>507855121 >>507855123
Anonymous Unknown
6/17/2025, 9:24:34 PM No.507855121
>>507855120
Idk how to analogize this in here but you missed the pretty important part of the government using that currency to pay people and requiring it as taxes
Anonymous Unknown
6/17/2025, 9:27:03 PM No.507855122
>>507855119
Well countries have made alliances to fuck over another country. I reckon it would be something lile that
Replies: >>507855125
Anonymous Unknown
6/17/2025, 9:29:30 PM No.507855123
>>507855120
>dude credit cards are like... a simulation
Poorfags gonna be poor
Anonymous Unknown
6/17/2025, 9:32:47 PM No.507855124
88aa9a8c36683dc208b4b3f583a58a7a
88aa9a8c36683dc208b4b3f583a58a7a
md5: c0990fb7ce1cce2ba7606f99530d42ef🔍
>>507855114 (OP)
it's a grift
>we borrow money from ourselves to pay back ourselves
>plus tax
>plus tip
>plus compound interest
>adjusted for inflation
modern day coin shaving, nothing more nothing less.
Anonymous Unknown
6/17/2025, 9:46:11 PM No.507855125
>>507855122
The US owns them all. England similarly refused to let any other power take over their position by shutting down the central powers whose main coalition was a financial one. That's what the Germans referred to as international finance
Anonymous Unknown
6/17/2025, 10:25:57 PM No.507855126
>>507855114 (OP)
>How exactly did nations of the past get over insane amounts of debt?
by not taking new loans until they paid off the old ones

or just going bankrupt
Anonymous Unknown
6/17/2025, 10:29:20 PM No.507855127
The national debt is a boogeyman that political parties can use to spread FUD to get midwits to vote for them. It's convenient because the debt is a big number (and big numbers are scary as you know) and the average retard doesn't actually understand how it works or what it means
Anonymous Unknown
6/17/2025, 10:33:28 PM No.507855128
>>507855114 (OP)
>How exactly did nations of the past get over insane amounts of debt?
They didn't. The US has been in debt since it was founded because the point isn't to pay those debts back the point is to maintain the promise to creditors that it can be payed back, thus giving creditors skin in the game so they're obligated to prevent that country from economic collapse. Japan is in worse debt than the US relative to its GDP and they're doing just fine because nobody actually gives a shit. The debt is a meme
Anonymous Unknown
6/17/2025, 10:34:07 PM No.507855129
Andrew Jackson paid off the Federal government's entire debt, the only president to ever do so.
Anonymous Unknown
6/17/2025, 10:39:40 PM No.507855130
>how nations get over insane amounts of debts
1, defaulting, several empires/great kingdoms just said to the bankers we aint paying up and if you insist we will have your head
2, actually having the debtors head, made up heretic accusations etc
3, confiscating the wealth of an organisation/rich ppl (read what happened to the knights templars in france)
4, selling rights/lands etc, liquidating assets
5, war, loot, gaining assets
6, robbing minorities, expulsion, ethnic cleansing, religious violence

you are right scratching your head, because its just debt, it takes about a moment to say, actually we have no debts, anyone trying to say otherwise will feel out wrath, crapitalists hate this, because their little invesment will not come to yield then
Anonymous Unknown
6/18/2025, 4:23:00 AM No.507855131
>>507855114 (OP)
>Can someone explain to me why the debt ceiling is so important and why its always the focus of every administration?
It represents how much of the federal income is spent on paying back creditors, which means less can be spent on anything else if it is higher. A simple description is that the difference between low debt and high debt is whether this money that is being taxed is going to anything that, in theory, benefits the taxpayers, as opposed to being paid back to the smaller subset of special interests who are creditors.

>And for a financial juggernaut that has the worlds economy dependent on wall street why cant they just ignore it and suffer no consequences?
If the country defaults on the debt, that will do severe damage to its currency reputation, meaning economic activity will shift elsewhere. Therefore, that possibility is generally and I think rightfully so not considered as an acceptable option.

Right now there aren't much better options for investment than in dollars and instruments denominated in dollars, since they are the "reserve currency" and have been for quite a while now. If a super wealthy investor wants to invest in massive quantities of other currencies, they will find their investment does not appreciate as well. Even in cases where the dollar isn't at its best, others tend to do even worse, leaving no better options.

>And is it really such a big deal as to take up the entire focus of the nations politicians and their strategy?
Cutting the debt does serve as a motivation to eliminate wasteful spending such as we saw with the DOGE effort recently. At the end of the day, the resources that the government spends should be distributed in efficient and effective ways as to prevent what would be considered "waste." I would think this should be considered a big deal considering the scale.

>Why couldn't he just ignore them when they ask
In real world situations there is usually interdependence as well as alternate investment options.
Replies: >>507855133
Anonymous Unknown
6/18/2025, 4:26:17 AM No.507855132
US has been in debt since it was founded. When everything you do is debt-burdened then it ceases to realistically matter.
Replies: >>507855133
Anonymous Unknown
6/18/2025, 4:55:39 AM No.507855133
>>507855131
>>507855132
How does the credit rating work? If the US didnt default why has it credit rating taken a hit doesnt that mean its rep as a borrower is being seen as unreliable and risky to invest in?
Replies: >>507855134
Anonymous Unknown
6/18/2025, 7:26:59 AM No.507855134
>>507855133
>If the US didnt default why has it credit rating taken a hit
To conglomerate the economic complexities of this into a single word, kikes. The answer for anything the Federal Reserve today does is the same. It's all political and insider stuff meant to screw over the masses in one way or another.
Anonymous Unknown
6/18/2025, 8:14:43 AM No.507855135
>>507855114 (OP)
The reason debt ceiling is in place is so the state doesn't indebt themselves faster than the tax base can grow. Beyond entering a spiral where you start spending more and more money until paying off interests on them becomes difficult(Greece) you want to keep it way lower than your capacity simply because in case of emergency spending like a giant natural disaster(see Japan) or a war(see Ukraine).
Anonymous Unknown
6/18/2025, 8:55:34 AM No.507855136
>>507855114 (OP)
>How exactly did nations of the past get over insane amounts of debt?

Most debt is public.
Countries in the past typically didn't provide the same level of social assistance, securities, education, public investment, military spending, infrastructure spending, public medicine, and didn't have as many seniors, as they do today. In a modern economy basically anyone who isn't between the ages of 22-45, and whom doesn't make around (I think in America it's 45,000 to 60,000 a year?), is essentially a "leech" on the system accruing national debt in some way or another.

>Why couldn't he just ignore them when they ask for favors?

-He's incentivized to maintain some level of public trust if only out of everyone he's the most reliant on the public to do things for him. He still needs to eat, he still needs people to work on his castle, he needs men to guard him, the more he degrades and defaults on his public credit the more he compromises that relationship. It isn't to say he can't do that, but he'd be making more money and the people would be more cooperative if he did.
It's not about forming a mob and storming the castle, but thousands of people stealing from the castle, not growing enough crops to tax, doing their job shittier, and sabotaging the king's stuff. You can absolutely guard the well, but you can't hold literally everyone in the county at spear-point and force them to behave 24/7.

-Foreign well owners have castles and armies of their own, more importantly - luxury items 'our' well guy might want. Foreign well owners can use violence against our well guy, they can deny him goods, they can even convince his people to come live in their county. Well guy ignoring or not honoring debts makes him less competitive and tarnishes his reputation with other well owners.
Anonymous Unknown
6/18/2025, 9:03:58 AM No.507855137
The coming bankruptcy of the US - extended thread
The coming bankruptcy of the US - extended thread
md5: 198cc2364fa3405c9212fac51a025b73🔍
>>507855114 (OP)
>Can someone explain to me why the debt ceiling is so important and why its always the focus of every administration?
Here you gave a giga info dump.
Enjoy.
Replies: >>507855138
Anonymous Unknown
6/18/2025, 10:33:40 AM No.507855138
>>507855137
If the petro dollar collapses how much would geopolitics be shooken up? Will nations start resorting to imperialistic measures to mitigate the worldwide financial collapse coming from the death of Wall Street?
Replies: >>507855139
Anonymous Unknown
6/18/2025, 11:55:56 AM No.507855139
>>507855138
>If the petro dollar collapses how much would geopolitics be shooken up? Will nations start resorting to imperialistic measures to mitigate the worldwide financial collapse coming from the death of Wall Street?

With such a collapse, American political and military power will diminish.
As a result, one thing that's sure is that China will go ahead with their take-over of Taiwan. They might even betray Russia and take the far east, which is an empty land full of natural resources and the biggest fresh water lake in the world (Lake Baikal).

The Euros will run around like headless hens, because they have zero initiative, no vision and no independent long-term planning.

If food becomes more scarse (due to global trade impairments), Africa will starve.

Everyone else is a wild guess.
Replies: >>507855140
Anonymous Unknown
6/18/2025, 12:29:13 PM No.507855140
>>507855139
The chinese invasion of Russia thing is imo overplayed. It used to be that Manchurian peasants went to work seasonal jobs in Russia, both because it paid decently and because it was the work in the very raw resource extraction sector that was later traded to the Chinese, but it's not the case anymore. The same peasants are more likely to look for seasonal work in the south of their country while Russians have expanded the operations on their own because it's profitable, duh.
Taking the region for the Chinese is the most pointless thing on earth, you can literally draw an equation when is it even economically reasonable and it's not looking good(Russians pay for administering and keeping the region safe while the Chinese would have to offer much higher wages than currently to bring their people northwards and all of that for most likely not that big of a margin).
Replies: >>507855141
Anonymous Unknown
6/18/2025, 12:59:08 PM No.507855141
Screenshot 2025-06-18 at 12-57-41 is china short on fresh water - Szukaj w Google
>>507855140
What are you even talking about.
The Russian Far-ast is an endless tundra filled with precious and industrial metals, other natural resources and fresh water - everything the Chinese need.
They destroyed their natural landscape, they have to import Russian oil and gas, and they're short on fresh water.
And their political relations are far from perfect - the current alliance is one of necessity.

This scenario is very much realistic.
Replies: >>507855142
Anonymous Unknown
6/18/2025, 1:47:05 PM No.507855142
>>507855141
You can find people making similar arguments back in the 1970's. Nothing came out of it, in the end it's easier to just trade with the Russians than to try to dig all that stuff.
Anonymous ID: o2ujfq+pUnited States
6/18/2025, 3:38:03 PM No.507855738
Who cares
Who cares
md5: 18fc615761bfa316378f1863e8b31e94🔍
>>507855116
>So it's not so much that there's so much debt, it's that if the US paid off its debt obligations and then didn't accrue any more debt nobody would care about the existence of the US anymore because they'd stop paying them off
I disagree with this guy. The debt is politicians printing money because that's how they gain and maintain power. It's the gibs factory.

The reason it never goes down is because low taxes is another version of gibs factory. It never will and someday the country will destroy itself. Fiat currency + human nature + elected officials (slippery snakes, generally) = Doom.
Anonymous ID: xuypmBMkNetherlands
6/18/2025, 3:55:37 PM No.507857221
why is every flag in this thread showing up as a question mark