Thread 508178994

I've met athiests who believe in ghosts and an afterlife. I'm not joking when I say they believe in the supernatural, but they just don't believe in a God/gods. Just remember that, my God fearing /pol/ users. Atheism is RETARDED

>>508178994 (OP)
>but they just don't believe in a God/gods.
Wow good job. Why does an afterlife or ghosts require a God or gods?

why are there unironic christians posting on 4chan now?

>>508179252
So you believe in Spongebob, but not Thomas the tank engine ?

>>508179252
If you're willing to believe in an afterlife and ghosts, why are you so turned off by the thought of a God existing?

Post more grimes

>>508179327
Why are you mad?

>>508179367
He knows he's a heathen and doesnt want to answer for his bad deeds.

>>508179363
Thomas the tank is my OG show as a kid.
>>508179367
I'm not convinced of any of it. But you didn't answer my question either

>>508179406
why are you gay?

>>508179428
Answer for my bad deeds? If I make a mistake I own up to it, make amends, learn from it and move on

>>508179396
Hi Elon

>>508178994 (OP)
listen cunt its none of your business. it dosent matter if someone believes in god or not, the rules apply regardless.

>>508179252
Exactly. There is no contradiction here.
>the world was created and is government by an omnipotent entity exactly as described by a tribe of primitive desert people millennia ago
vs
>there's some spooky stuff going on that we don't fully understand (yet)

>>508179396
worst post since the shutdown. congratulations

>>508179456
>>508179454
>>508179428
>>508178994 (OP)
Hi bros/broettes! I have a romance about Bibi and the Ayatollah. I dedicate it to khazarian queen! :)

Amid the chaos of war, with Israel and Iran hurling missiles, Benjamin Netanyahu and the Ayatollah of Iran found a secret spark of love.

They slipped away from bunkers and battle plans, meeting in a candlelit ruin, hearts racing. Their eyes locked, and Bibi whispered, "Fuck the war, it’s just us."

The Ayatollah, his beard trembling, nodded, and they fell into each other’s arms, enemies turned lovers. Bibi tore off the Ayatollah's robes, revealing a hairy ass begging for love.

Lube poured like sweet syrup, coating Bibi's throbbing cock as he slathered it, slick and dripping.

He eased into the Ayatollah's tight Persian asshole, but the condom split, rubber ripping as raw flesh plunged deep, stirring sweat, shit, and blood in a passionate mess.

The Ayatollah moaned, "death to America", his shitter clenching Bibi's cock, shit oozing out, mixing with lube in a gooey puddle.

Bibi thrust tenderly, balls slapping wet, the Ayatollah's beard soaked in spit, begging for more. Cum and filth coated Bibi's shaft, but love blinded him to the stench.

The Ayatollah's ass gaped, leaking a sappy stew of jizz, shit, and lube, dripping down his thighs like tears of devotion.

Bibi nutted a lover's load, hot cum flooding the Ayatollah's colon, a bond deeper than what divided their nations.

The Ayatollah gasped, "Allahu Akbar", his own dick spurting ropes of cum, sealing their vow.

They collapsed, Bibi's cock dripping ass juice, the Ayatollah's hole farting globs of Bibi's seed, splattering like calligraphic ink.

The room reeked of sweat, cum, and shit, torn condoms scattered, lube cans dry. Their love, a miracle, defied nations.

They held hands, Bibi whispering, "We'll find a way through the hate", as cum leaked from the Ayatollah's ruined ass, a testament to their bond, a stunning and brave rebellion against the world!

>>508179454
I can't answer your question because it's so painfully stupid. You got me there buddy. Good job

>>508179561
Exactly

>>508179597
You’re brown

>>508179327
>migrants acting like they're the natives

>>508179609
>I don't know
That's all you had to say

>>508178994 (OP)
It isn't that it is retarded, just that the proponents of it are asking themselves that question for perhaps the first time, or they are young.
To answer that question correctly demands a thought process that should not be short circuited to produce faster results. There are people out there that would challenge every statement you make, find them. Continue your own search for truth.

>>508179610
>>508179561
I understand the definition of atheism, retards. It's just very adorable the amount of supernatural beliefs you are willing to believe but SOMEHOW God existing is too much to swallow.

>>508178994 (OP)
atheist is not a religion, retard.
you project your retardation into them, OP.
is impossible to talk about the subject with religious faggots.
You should debate marxists instead, same intelectual level, meaning, none.

If you push them far enough an atheist will always admit to believing in some greater will with various properties that are essentially just God. They're just confused because they think God is some wizard in the clouds, a child's idea of God.

>>508179701
>I understand the definition of atheism, retards
Clearly you don't
>>508179701
>but SOMEHOW God existing is too much to swallow.
Not really it's just that "God" is more subjective than ghosts. When you speak of God, you're invoking your perosnal feelings and opinions about what you think God is. Whereas ghosts are ghosts lol.

And as I just told you
>>508179454
>I'm not convinced of any of it

>>508179513
You forgot the asterisk that you decide for yourself which deeds are bad and require owning up to, rather than following objective moral truths. In other words you decided to become your own god, which is the original lie of the devil.

>>508178994 (OP)
>Believing ghosts wiuld be somehow less retarded than believing in holy ghosts

>>508179868
>you decide for yourself which deeds are bad and require owning up to
Incorrect

>>508179701
I want to interject and explain it for them because 99% of self-identifying atheists on here, much less the internet, are some of the dumbest people you will ever encounter, and the ones on /pol/ now are unironic migrants from plebbit so they're completely unaware of how to form an argument that isn't some limp-wristed quip.

The idea of "atheism" is a weasel word because it can mean multiple definitions, not strictly an irreligious person. It can also mean someone that believes no gods exist. This isn't incompatible with religious beliefs if the religion excludes deities.

>But why not believe in God?
Maybe they're chinks that believe in Taoism?

>>508179924
>The idea of "atheism" is a weasel word because it can mean multiple definitions
Nah, it's just a disbelief or lack of belief in God or gods

>>508179909
Do you jack off? Are you a homo? Do you believe men can become women? Do you get drunk? Are these OK because you decided "they aren't hurting anyone"?

>>508179327
it's been long enough that it's contrarian to be religious again. so zoomers do it ironically.

also, many mellineals are at cluster B manifestation age, mid to late 30s, so their mental illnesses are kicking in HARD.

also jews are hard at work trying to convert as many incels as they can after trump showed their voting power actually works, the more christcucks the more support pissrael gets in its ethnic cleansing of gaza.

>>508179989
>Do you jack off? Are you a homo?
I've been happily married to my wife for almost 10 years
>>508179989
>Do you believe men can become women?
Nope
>>508179989
>Do you get drunk?
Nope
>>508179989
>Are these OK because you decided "they aren't hurting anyone"?
Try your next reply with less strawman

>>508179974
Providing another definition to the one I explained just supports my argument.

>>508180308
>Providing another definition
Its the definition, see
>>508179252

>>508180308
>the one I explained just supports my argument.
Yeah your strawman lol

>>508178994 (OP)
Those people might be retards, but they aren't atheists. They are very clearly theists, but their theism is not an Abrahamic religion or other such religion.

Buddhism is a theistic religion. And yet, they don't believe in personalized all powerful deity. Sure, they may believe in Brahma in some form, but that's not really a requirement. Still though, even without believing in an omnipotent and omniscient God, it wouldn't be right to call Buddhists atheists

>>508180159
What strawman, a series of questions? You still haven't given a source for your morality. Do you think morality is subjective or objective?

>>508180602
>What strawman,
>>508179989
>Are these OK because you decided "they aren't hurting anyone"?
>>508180602
>You still haven't given a source for your morality.
You didn't ask and it's empathy
>>508180602
>Do you think morality is subjective or objective?
Subjective on a macro scale and then gets more objective on a micro/societal scale

>>508178994 (OP)
No they don't believe in religious Gods. Imagine thinking anything written by MAN is the TRUTH.

>>508178994 (OP)
Reminder: we don't have to resort to insults, although you are not really insulting atheists, only atheism, which is retarded. Who cares if anyone thinks we're stupid though? What's more, from their hopeless assumptions we would look stupid, God also promises we will be mocked. We should just ignore the desire to seem intelligent or superior. The good news is only meant for the lost sheep, and the sheep will never ignore the call.

>>508179252
Pretty subversive definition.
Atheism in modern times, after agnostics distances from it in disgust, is just another belief system. A belief centered aroung the idea that no gods exist. But a belief nonetheless. In the end there is as much proof that god isn't real as there is that god is real. It's all "trust me bro", "maybe read this book saying I'm right".

>>508178994 (OP)
Those arnt atheists. They are religious type.

>>508180663
Asking you basic questions is not a strawman, maybe go learn what that means.
>Subjective on a macro scale and then gets more objective on a micro/societal scale
Would the concept of murder still be wrong even if humans didn't exist?

>>508180929
>Pretty subversive definition
Not really. Pretty straightforward
>after agnostics distances from it in disgust
One can be agnostic atheist, watch as you not understand this

>>508180870
"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand." John 10:28

>>508181036
>Asking you basic questions is not a strawman
Yoir last question was an assumption of my beliefs, a strawman as you thought I'd support those things.

>>508181036
>Would the concept of murder still be wrong even if humans didn't exist?
Is it murder when a lion kills the gazelle?

>>508181077
>reduces the complexity of people's belief or lack of to a basic template a toddler could understand
>thinks this proves any point
classic american

>>508181305
I was right
>>508181077
>watch as you not understand this
Lol

Atheism is as cringe and retarded as theism, especially /abrahamic/ theism
And ghosts make a lot more sense than magic sky daddies

>>508181155
How the fuck is a question an assumption. You realize those are opposite things. If I assumed your belief I wouldn't have ASKED YOU.
>Is it murder when a lion kills the gazelle?
No of course not because murder requires malice aforethought which animals are not capable of. Very simple shit, are you being obtuse on purpose?

>>508181566
>How the fuck is a question an assumption
You're very disingenuous
>>508179989
>because you decided "they aren't hurting anyone"?
Why are you people so dishonest?

>>508181566
>>Is it murder when a lion kills the gazelle?
>No of course not because murder requires malice
I agree, so to answer your question
>>508181036
>Would the concept of murder still be wrong even if humans didn't exist?
The answer is no.

>>508178994 (OP)
>Atheism is RETARDED.
How is it “RETARDED” to lack belief in the existence of gods?

>>508178994 (OP)
grimes has a moustache

>>508179363
If spongebob isnt real then how do you explain sponges?

>>508181734
Regarding your assertion that morality is subjective on the macro level and tends towards objectivity on the micro:
How do you feel about human sacrifice in the americas pre-colonialism? Their belief in their gods justifies their actions? Often the sacrifices were honoured to be killed, and would go voluntarily.

>>508179830
yep

>>508182168
it’s retarded to claim to know there is no God. Agnosticism requires humility, I respect someone who admits they don’t know. Atheists are simply dishonest and that reflects in their day to day choices

>>508178994 (OP)
I've met theists who believe in jewish myths, prophecies and tribal deities.. I'm not joking when I say they believe in the schizo lies of jews, not simply a higher transcendental metaphysics. Just remember that, my non-materialist /pol/ users. Abrahamism is RETARDED

>>508185132
>How do you feel about human sacrifice in the americas pre-colonialism?
>How do you feel about human sacrifice in the americas pre-colonialism? Their belief in their gods justifies their actions? Often the sacrifices were honoured to be killed, and would go voluntarily.
At the notion that human sacrifice somehow pleases a "God". Pretty stupid and bad regardless if they volunteered.

>>508185132
How do you feel about human sacrifice to yahweh in the Old Testament? Eg numbers 31
How do you feel about christfaggotry being founded on a supposed human sacrifice of a mashiach ie jesus?

>>508178994 (OP)
The existence of the supernatural does not imply the existence of a sky wizard. Also, there is no such thing as the supernatural, anything that exists is natural.

I've met christcucks who believe jews are a sacred and holy chosen people, I'm not joking when I say they believe in jesus, but they just don't believe any other race are his chosen people. Just remember that, my God fearing /pol/ users christianity is RETARDED

>>508179327
It correlates perfectly with mass adoption of the internet by the third world by the way.
Pure cohencidence I'm sure.

>>508180929
>In the end there is as much proof that god isn't real as there is that god is real.
>In the end there is as much proof that spiderman isn't real as there is that spiderman is real.
God is a fairy tale invented by dumb people, those that come with these characters need to prove it, not us. You're a midwit.

>>508179367
Gods as presented by religions are very obviously fiction. At some point something came from nothing, but proposing that the first thing was a sky wizard specifically is not something we find a reasonable assertion.

In regards to supernatural things such as ghosts or the afterlife, an atheist would believe these are just natural phenomenon. Possibly related to psychic energies that human brains generate. The universe before sentient beings would be a place devoid of any supernatural happenings.

>>508178994 (OP)
>all atheists are the same
uh huh, sure they rabbi

>>508178994 (OP)
Pagans are the trve atheists.

>>508181305
>Imagine being blindsided by something a toddler can understand.
You can pretty much reduce your entire belief system down to "I believe in a book" you know.

>>508186923
>At some point something came from nothing
Not necessarily. Indeed some assert that this is impossible.

>puh puh please come back to abrahamic semetic worship goylems

Nah

>>508178994 (OP)
Always have been, I never went for that direction, but it does also attack atheism in it's core.
Good find. Nice.

>>508178994 (OP)
>>508179367
Note also that self-identified "atheists" may believe in reincarnation and karma.

>>508178994 (OP)
Religion is a private matter, I' broadly sympathetic to Catholicism and believe in God and the whole Jesus bit but I recognise that I am also the recipient of deep cultural programming and am ambivalent about the institution.

I don't think you can just shop around for the most "aesthetic" or logical religion because it's also an extension of your culture and history.

People would be far better off not prewching, but anti Christians are ibsessed with "undoing" the religion as the solution to all their moral problems as though the Church wasn't leading and underpinning European achievement for much of the time and as though we aren't faced with moral degradation.

Conversely most achristians are goofy ass leftwing niggaz who don't realise that entryism since Vatican 2 has turned based institutions into baseditituions. Most Christians alive are nosy, sanctimonious cunts who think you invite your rapist in for tea but it says that nowhere in the Bible.

I don't care what your religion is as long as you've thought thrkugh ethical problems at least ocne in your life and would see yourself as having some moral self awareness. Who gives a shit, I can barely save myself

>>508179252
lololol. holy shit the absolute state of atheism.

>>508178994 (OP)
I don't believe in ghosts or anything supernatural, and I think most religious people are either uncurious or cowardly.

>>508188986
>fairy tale retarded doesn't understand the concept that spirituality can exist without his fairy tale desert deity character.

>>508178994 (OP)
Atheists usually believe in space men too I've noticed.

>>508185144
>it’s retarded to claim to know there is no God.
Atheism is lack of belief in the existence of gods - why do you say atheism is “claiming to know there is no God”?

>Atheists are simply dishonest
Post documentation for your lie.
>and that reflects in their day to day choices
What are atheists’ day to day choices, and how do you illegally monitor all irreligious people in the world?

>>508188236
You don't sound very committed. "The whole Jesus bit"? Pretty disrespectful way to phrase your faith, implying that it's a joke or a trivial thing. And while I respect your nuanced views, a religion like Christianity does not permit a likewarm commitment. If you believe, you should also preach to others or, at the very least, prostrate yourself before your God personally. I picture you thinking about doing that and then going "... eh, that's kinda weird though."

>>508190064
>my religious views tell me that homosexuality is bad
>atheists don't hold my religious views
>atheists don't automatically assume that homosexuality is bad
>lol look at them
>haha, got eem
It's okay. No God is going to punish you in Hell for sodomy, whether that's straight anal or oral sex, or GAY anal or oral sex. You're free, you just don't know it yet.

>>508178994 (OP)
Damn good point!. Im still not gonna worship a dead jew from the middle east though.

>>508178994 (OP)
They are not actually atheists.

>>508190761
Elaborate. I consider myself an atheist. Why do you think that descriptor is invalid?

>>508178994 (OP)
I remember reading an interview with one of my favourite bands (the mars volta) where they were shitting on Christianity and basically calling religious people dumb. Then I found out later that they believed in ouiji board curses and Cedric became a scientologist. Atheists are black holes of intelligence.

>>508178994 (OP)
Imagine an existence where consciousness is eternal but there is no God.

Just an infinite number ghosts wandering the universe looking for life to enslave.

>>508186923
Christian theology posits that God has always been. The idea that there muat first have been nothing, and then something, could very well be a kind of innate human bias: WE are first not, and then are (birth), and then are not once more (death), and so this is projected onto the universe itself. We do this kind of projection a lot: "I don't like X. Therefore, woven into the fabric of reality itself is the FACT that X IS WRONG, objectively and absolutely."

>>508191034
>I saw some people being stupid
>therefore, everyone is stupid

>>508178994 (OP)
Anyone that tells you that life is worth living is using reverse psychology.

>>508190849
atheists don't believe in anything supernatural. If you believe in ghosts and an afterlife you are a different type of religious person.

>>508191280
You mean they're trying ro get you to kill yourself? I don't just think that life is worth living: I think everyone who disagrees should be killed so their negativity doesn't poison others.

>>508191123
That's the plot to the Conjuring, right?

>>508191264
Pretty typical experience. I've had innumerable debates with atheists over the years and every single one devolves into them shit flinging and name calling after I point out the logical flaws in their beliefs. I've met plenty of smart agnostics, but never a smart atheist.

>>508178994 (OP)
there are metaphysicalists (idealists and dualists) that believe in the metaphysical but dont believe in god, its not contradictory
you can also look into pantheism and daoism for similar stuff

personally im a physicalist atheist, i dont believe in anything metaphysical or god and i believe the mind and consciousness are physical processes

>>508191379
But I don't believe in ghosts or the supernatural. I believe everything that is, exists in the natural world, even if undetectable by currently available means.

>>508191435
lol, you enjoy being a parasite. Good for you!

>>508191437
That's the plot to all psychology. They don't actually want you alive, they want you obedient.

>>508178994 (OP)
those are just low iq atheists. the clever ones reject all supernatural beliefs

>>508178994 (OP)
Considering the afterlife at all is gay retarded shit for children. There is no possible way of knowing if a god exists, or what their true expectations or desires are, and whether or not they are benevolent.
However, objective good and evil do exist in our realm. Destruction is evil, creation is good. It really is as simple as that. However, creating with the intent to destroy is evil, and destroying with the intent to create *can* be good. That's where it gets tricky.

Be good and create and at the very least you will leave your body knowing you did good.

>>508190293
This is what I'm talking about. It doesn't matter. I believe it. The faith part is not an issue for me. Throw in works, if you want to hedge your bets.

I accept God is real and I accept Jesus is the saviour, and not in any perennialist wagmi way. That's enough compared to the basedence we live amidst. Lord knows I did my man hours in a stone Cathedral on 35 degree days for yesrs. A lot of the people running it were fags. It was offputting

>>508178994 (OP)
those people are jewish
>atheist
seemingly never have a fucking thing to say about islam or judaism. funny huh

>>508191439
My position as an atheist is that I am unconvinced that gods are real - "real" meaning "exist independently from human experience". You and I both have probably encountered the same kind of atheist too many times, judging by your prejudice: the arrogant and haughty strict empiricist with a moral axe to grind, who has spent way too much time sharpening their axe against their opposition and not nearly enough time investigating their own biases and assumptions, many of which are derived from the very religion they target. Belligerent, angry, and deeply insecure because intelligence is the closest thing they know to a god, and they haven't scrutinized their own philosophical perspective enough to be teuly confident in their perspective and, by extension, their intellect. I hate them too, buddy.

>>508191514
Explain how that view is parasitic and why it's bad to be a parasite.

>>508191837
retard. atheists reject the old testament too.

>>508178994 (OP)
I literally do not care what atheists think about anything and I don't know why you do.

>>508191784
I take it you don't want an argument, because you're not providing much to argue about. Fair enough.

>>508188236
>Vatican 2
e christian spotted
the catholic church has always been pozzed and teaches jesus was a jew

>>508191947
All humans are objectively parasites.

Enjoying life as a human while rejecting this notion is enjoying being a parasite.

I think people like you need reality checks the most because face it, humans return nothing positive back to nature.

Just constant exploitation of resources and even each other.

Humans from a objective perspective should not exist and any argument otherwise is ignorant at best and malice at worst.

1 life in eternal time does seem impossible because of a state change. Ex. 1/0. On/off. I say that duality is impossible.

1/0/1/0/1 etc seems more plausible. Off/infinity, or just infinite state changes of consciousness. a duality in recognition, or triplet: before, life, after.

Atheism could be retarded. But I am also god. We are god. Everyone is god. While also there is a greater being like relativity: human plant sun Milky Way.

But I'm not as clear on consciousness/soul. i.e. harvesting control. Storage.

>>508192059
denounce the talmud

>>508192293
Let me get this straight: we humans take from nature, and so we owe something back. We do not give back, and so we are parasites, and that is bad. Is that your view?

1. Humans are part of nature, not something separate from it. Therefore, when we "take", it is nature taking from nature.
2. Without human judgement, what authority is there to say that anything is "owed" to anyone?
3. Human civilization is a refinement, a cultivation, of the raw materials of nature. We are the crown jewels of the Earth.
4. Without human judgement, what makes parasitism "bad"?

>>508192653
Judaism, christianism, islam, hinduism, ... all the same retarded shit.

Jesus has
-- 2 contradictory genealogies filled with errors
-- 2 different birth stories that don't mesh together logically or thematically
-- 2 different baptism stories with contradictory details
-- 2 different crucifixion stories with totally different timelines
-- 2 different resurrection stories, broadly speaking, although the specific details are wildly different in all 4 accounts

It's just ridiculous.

The old testament has less overlapping scripture so it's harder to find blatant contradictions. But it's filled with so much ridiculous mythology.
-- Talking animals
-- dragons and unicorns, magical things
-- a flat earth
-- the global flood that never happened
-- bloody sacrifice rituals
-- extremely brutal and psychotic bronze age laws
-- Jacob bear-wrestles god in a 1v1 cage match for the name "israel"
-- God "hardens pharaohs heart" against letting the jews go, then as punishment, kills the pharaohs child and all the other children too
-- God makes contracts with the jews for earthly power, in exchange for their soul. Sounding pretty satanic.
-- God is also obsessed with children's foreskins

It's a madhouse. There is no wisdom to be gained from any of these stories. You're training yourself to believe lies.

A true holy book would teach you...
>how to reason and think through things
>how to form a government that isn't a sacrificial theocracy
>how to comport yourself in social situations
>the proper shape of the earth, our place in the universe, maybe some basic astronomy or geology
>some clues about a particular black liquid lying under the ground. It could be all vague and stuff
There's so much that SHOULD be there, that isn't there. Instead we get pages and pages of endless genealogies or goat-sacrifice rituals, it's insanity.

>>508188986
>doesn't have an argument
Lol

>not one mention of (super)naturalism in the thread
Supernaturalism is the belief in the supernatural, naturalism is the lack of belief in the supernatural
They don't have anything to do with theistic belief, which is about gods specifically and there is zero overlap
As an example most deists are theistic naturalists (prime mover etc.; god made the world but it is just the world)
How are you fucking monkeys arguing about this shit without knowing basic terminology?

>>508191435
Suicide shouldn't be wrong. Death and life are monetized. It is jews and religion ((($$$))) that dictate social norms. More life has died than is alive. In perpetuity.

>>508179327
They came here after r/thedonald got shut down.

>>508178994 (OP)
There is significantly more evidence of the supernatural out there than evidence of a God.

>>508178994 (OP)
Because everything was supernatural to humans before there was a prosaic explanation. Lightening and thunder, for example. Any questions or does that about clear it up OP?

I believe in chicken eggs but not chickens.

>>508192293
Stop being so fucking jew.

>>508178994 (OP)
Most "atheists" are actually just agnostic and unsure as to what actually is out there but don't realize the term exists.

>>508193027
I don't think suicide is wrong. If you're the kind of person who would kill themselves, then suicide is absolutely the right move. Remove yourself before you poison others. I say this with no hate or even contempt. Do what thou wilt.

>>508193364
Yes, no exactly. It should be up to each individual. I do not believe in yolo.

>>508193336
One can be am agnostic atheist

>>508193336
I guarantee you mosts atheists know what agnosticism is. In very strict technical terms, any atheist that does not think they KNOW that there's no god would be an agnostic AS WELL as an atheist, because you can say "I reject the claim that god(s) exist" without claiming to know that they don't.

>>508193494
I do believe in YOLO, but still agree with your opinion.

>>508193549
Exactly this

>>508180150
I will eliminate pre-marital sex. And then I will time-travel to a time where somebody is violating my world order, and then I will kick that pre-marital sexer's ass. I will also beat my own ass so all the would-be pre-marital sexers know nobody is safe.
P.S.: I just remembered I can annoy the pre-marital sexers into committing suicide.

>>508192950
you didn’t denounce the talmud. and you’re a meme flag. point proven.

>>508179367
>some random spirit exists
vs
>there's this magic sky fairy that created LITERALLY EVERYTHING and also he's everywhere and always watching every living being at all times and there's also heaven and hell and demons and angels and and and

hm yes these are totally the same thing

>>508178994 (OP)
>I met spiritualists who didn't believe in a god.
>Athiesm is RETARDED
Average /POL/ retard

God the longer I exist the more I learn to loathe the humans that share the planet with me. I simply wish that the human race was more rationally minded. You all are a set of self destructive thoughts with no concurrent uniting factor of swirling tribalistic parties. Where is your individuality, your sense of humanity?

>>508178994 (OP)
Beings within beings is the correct way to view the universe. The concept of gods is childish. Would you obsessively micromanage cells in random parts of your body? Or would you do more good overall by maintaining greater harmony and rhythms that only you are capable of? Eating, shitting, sleeping properly etc.

>>508178994 (OP)

You retards cant differ between religion and God and therefore you're all satanic by nature.

Religion is a culture, created by humans, to worship the God they belive is the right one in their own way.

>>508194025
The planet is alive, our solar system is alive. Our collective minds make up greater mental planes. It's really not a difficult concept but it directly threatens dogma

>>508194025
>>508194197
Cancer, disease, a misbehaving organ... Are all concepts that would attract the attention of the next being above it. The earth is far more intelligent than you realize and we are all integral components of it

>>508178994 (OP)
Cool. Safe bet it isn't semitic schizo tales though.

>>508193731
if i denounce the old testament i denounce talmud too, retard. retarded endless commentaries about a retarded fairy tale called the old testament

>>508178994 (OP)
>Atheism is RETARDED
We know.
God clearly says so.

>>508194149
Literally this. Religion is how your society operates, and God is just some cool entity that we can't understand.

>>508194421
it’s okay you can stop posting now i already accepted your concession

>>508178994 (OP)
I've never understood why people freak out about atheists believing in the supernatural kek. If they're atheists using science as their religious framework then they'd see the supernatural as something not understood yet by science.

If anything i'm more suspicious of christians believing in ghosts.

>>508192897
If you need to justify your existence to feel happy, I won't point out your delusions.

>>508193313
Jews hate me for this one trick. Proclaiming that everyone is exactly like them.

>>508194549
moron, you dont even understand that judaicucks believe the old testament is god's words. they're also not allowed to write the word GOD and write g-d instead.

>>508179327
Kike seething lmao

>>508193890
>Why yes I believe in this sky fairy but not that sky fairy

>>508194975
Exactly. Childish. So is believing you don't have a soul.

>>508178994 (OP)
>but they just don't believe in a God

If they are foolish and stubborn and they just might pay the ultimate price.

>>508195288
>a religiouscuck who believes there is a foreskin hating god who may throw him in hell is calling non-believers foolish
oh im laffing

>>508178994 (OP)
Christianity is based because you can just do anything then receive forgiveness later
There’s basically no rules

>>508195438
You have no idea, my friend. Accept Christian philosophy as your moral stand ground and live by it so you may catch the attention of Christ and the angels. Atheists are fools, and they didn't do enough research. Dabble into the occult if you dare.

>>508195772
Oh. That's not how it works pal :^)

>>508179252
>WE ARE TOTALLY THIS DEFINITION ALONE, FHERE IS NO SUCH THING AS NUANCE OR ANY HUMAN FACTORING INTO THIS, WE ATHEISTS ARE DEFINED ONLY BY THIS DICTIONARY DEFINITION, WE ARE TOTALLY NOT INFLUENCED IN ANY POLITICAL WAY BY THIS, WE ARE COOKIE CUTTER PEOPLE, WHEN WE SPAM THIS BOARD WITH ANTI CHRISTIAN THREADS IT IS A NUETRAL ACT THAT HAS NO BEARING ON US AS INDIVIDUALS, WE ARE TOTALLY NOT GAY, IM LE 4% DUDE, TRUST ME

>>508180929
>In the end there is as much proof that god isn't real as there is that god is real
Not true, actually. God objectively exists and there isn't any room for doubt about it. We know this, because every effect has a cause responsible for it, thus necessitating an unmade self existent first cause.

>>508195847
>you're a fool for not believing this >>508192950
it's called a projection my friend. i hope one day you'll grow up or have the help you need to be a functional adult without having to believe in utter non-sense.

>>508194747
i accept your concession thank you

>>508195948
That's exactly how it works, especially for catholics. And yes, catholics are christians. You're all the same.

>>508196094
even if a god exists it doesn't mean those religious texts are true.

>>508196130
I didn't say you are a fool for not believing it. I am just saying you didn't do your research and you didn't pursue it with the necessary seriousness. You have to understand that stuff that seems cringe or doesn't matter to you, actually does matter. Also a little faith and insistence do help.

>>508178994 (OP)
>you cant believe in evil forces if you don't believe in da dead jew
christniggers are pathetic

>>508196229
You are mistaken to think like that. Always aim to better yourself.

>>508196094
Damn, you have no idea about creation ex nihlo. Imagine simply thinking that cause and effect are proof of a beginning and not simply an endless loop; must be hard living as a half-wit, but I suppose that's who religion is for, after all.

>>508196130
Only somebody who has never read a single paragraph's worth of philosophy in his entire life could think that that image is anything other than blatant projection. In reality, all of the world's greatest minds have asserted that there must be a God due to logical necessity. The scientific rigor that they gladly exposed their own ideas to would make somebody like you wither.

>>508196357
Based take, but if there is a shadow, there must be light. God is real, and so is Christ.

>>508196386
Why? God made me in his image. I'm just like him, faggot.

>>508180159
>I've been happily married to my wife for almost 10 years
>The wife in question
Nigger we have seen your photos, your dirty ass shit brown carpet flooring in your shit hole ghetto apartment, you aren't married you are a gay jew

>>508196475
God is everything that is good. Language doesn't define you, faggot. What matters are actions and intentions. Maybe thoughts a little.

>>508196209
imagine being this low IQ and proud to be a retard... if someone already denounces the tanakh which is considered the words of god by jews, there is no need to denounce the talmud (that is bullshit too) on top of that to prove that he's atheist, retard.

>>508178994 (OP)
What's more likely?
>you die and an omnipotent, foreskin-obsessed israelite god decides which cookie cutter version of eternal life you get based on events within a finite amount of time which he planned for you to go through before you were born, and the only warning you receive of this fate is a 2000 year old book riddled with contradictions and lies written solely to retcon the lore of a ~2800 year old combination of an Edomite god and a Canaanite god
or
>you die and experience the same thing you did before you were born (nothing)

>>508196278
Religious texts were never meant to be taken literally, no matter which religion you're talking about. Isis cutting up Typhon and then putting him back together again, for example, is just an allegory for the forms, virtues and aspects of truth that eventually culminate into a unity of principle. Plato, Homer and the early Christians all used similar allegories. The idea that religion is tied with superstition as a way to explain thunder is absolutely childish and wrong, history doesn't reflect that at all.

>>508178994 (OP)
You fucking nigger! This is my joke.

Yes, they are fucking retarded and have no clue what it even means to be an "atheist".

It's even more fun to toy with them around free will vs fate. It's so obvious their trying to conform their answer to whatever the fuck they think an atheist edgelord Redditor with lots of top posts would say.

>>508196426
you're too low IQ to even understand that pic. there is a difference between believing a god exists and blindly bowing to man-made cults.

>>508196422
The axiom is ex nihilo nihil fit, and it literally means that nothing can come from nothing. There's no such thing as "creatio ex nihilo" because nothing could ever be created out of nothing, as an axiomatic logical rule that remains immutable for all time.

>>508179252
Holy shit. In the wild on a thread mocking this very retardation.

What a surprisingly good Sat morning thread. Thanks anons.

Also, you are a fucking retard and you might want to kys for any young people you may have influenced.

>>508196074
>>WE ARE TOTALLY THIS DEFINITION ALONE
If they disbelieve or lack belief in God or gods then yes. The rest has nothing to do with atheism

>>508196525
>this mad at a stranger with different opinions
Kek

>>508196787
Imagine actually thinking that you know what you're talking about when you have absolutely zero education or understanding of classical theology. At no point in human history has there ever been a religion that insisted on magical sky people. They've always been allegorical stand-ins for the incorporeal forms.

>>508196891
>no argument
Hahaha

>>508196687
They NEVER respond to this pasta. It breaks them.

Most people have no idea what atheist even means, but ultimately their point is about rejecting religious images of god.
Because a human image who is basically fucking insane and willing to throw you into a lake of fire for masturbating and not giving 10% of your income to the church, is an extremely over simplistic and fucking retarded way of thinking of a god.
If there is a god it's some larger abstract consciousness that guides things like evolution and arranges atoms so things function.
It's not some human image that speaks to you in words, or comes down in flesh like our organized religions imply.

Considering the evidence for reincarnation, it's very likely we have a soul that comes back here, so some form of self does exist.
There's also a lot of really weird shit out there observed by a ton of people every year.
You can absolutely deny the existence of any god depicted by mainstream religions and still believe in the supernatural

Religions are control systems headed by humans and therefore will behave like any group led by people.
They ultimately serve their own best interests and they are about money and control. Therefore you damn well should understand that they have been corrupted to oblivion right off the get go.
Fuck the religious texts and authority figures who are supposedly closer to god than I am.

Imagine not understanding God's language.

Imagine not ascending to higher dimensions.

Imagine worshipping capitalism out of materialism.

Fatheist.

>>508179561
Bullshit you are a retard. "Supernatural" pre-supposes a world beyond our own, or an afterlife. This is inherently a religious concept.

>>508196745
Based af

>>508197265
>This is inherently a religious concept.
Not really

Nome of you have been able to answer >>508179252
>Why does an afterlife or ghosts require a God or gods?

>>508197054
>They've always been allegorical stand-ins for the incorporeal forms
absolutely not that's just your enlightened reinterpreation of events trying to make people less retarded than they are. they absolutely believed in that non-sense the same way many tanakucks or islamicucks believe the tanak/quran is literal god's words.

>>508192950
Correct

>>508197642
You literally have a school child's comprehension of these things. Read some history, study some philosophy.

all girls would have mustaches if they didnt shave and guys don't realize that they shave so many secrets women have

>>508197906
let's find a common ground: deism and pantheism are the only acceptable 3 digit IQ views besides atheism.

>>508197906
>imma just project high IQ classical hellenist metaphysics onto hyksos mutt savages and their imbecilic schizo cult texts
Kek

>>508198231
Panentheism is supreme fren
Panentheistic monism to be precise

What made monotheism so popular? It seems people are just dumb and can't handle complex theology

>>508198481
You're the only one projecting. There are near endless sources proving that that's exactly what they believed. You only consider it schizo because you aren't high IQ enough to decipher the allegories.

"Atheism" is a post-modern concept that doesn't carry the meaning that truly separates the two sides.

The real question is, do you believe that existence means anything? That it has any purpose. If your answer is yes then you cannot claim to be an "atheist".

Do you believe in an "essence"? If yes, you are not an atheist.

>>508198890
>The real question is, do you believe that existence means anything? That it has any purpose. If your answer is yes then you cannot claim to be an "atheist".
Yes and I'm am atheist

>>508198890
>Do you believe in an "essence"? If yes, you are not an atheist.
What is "essence" to you?

>>508198890
If you claim to be an atheist then you must believe that existence or Being is entirely meaningless and random and devoid of any essence.

So in other words you have to maintain that there is absolutely no reason why things exist at all. That there is no purpose for the opposite of nothingness.

In reality there are very few true "atheists", so we should just stop using these bullshit words invented by post-modern midwits.

It's about existentialism vs idealism, ultimately.

Read Plato, Aristotle, then Kant, then Hegel, then Nietzsche, then Heidegger (Nietzsche through the lens of Heidegger)

>>508179252
>I believe in spirits, but I don't believe in God, who is also a spirit
The moment you acknowledge spiritual is the moment you cannot deny God's existence, because spiritual entities by definition are not material and thus aren't directly provable from our material world.

>>508199648
Again
>>508179252
>Why does an afterlife or ghosts require a God or gods?

>>508198231
Those kinds of deviations really aren't necessary. There's only one coherent view, which has been shared by every religious group in history, which is that a perfect unmade One created everything out of itself. Pantheism and polytheism still recognize that perfect One as the original source, even when they personify other generated beings downstream of it like Wisdom and Compassion as various deities.

And no, atheism could never be a high IQ position to hold because atheism is the ultimate superstition. The idea that "everything just came out of nothing for no reason at all" is the least scientific and most primitively minded position a person could ever hold.

>>508192293
>humans return nothing positive back to nature.
What dinosaurs have returned back to nature before a random rock from space has wiped them out?
What percentage of their existence took us to reach space?
As God intended, we are the rightful masters of this planet and all its resources and animals. Because only we can save life on it from cosmic catastrophes.

>>508199892
Whoa, pal. Did you really forget about the 88,000 years of humanity when no religions existed? You're laser focused on the last 12,000 because your parents indoctrinated you into Christianity. It's OK, partner, you can change right now, not all hope is lost. Just recognise the fact that you've been duped.

>>508199080

In this context, essence is the inherent nature or defining meaning of a thing. What it is.

In idealism (Platonism, Christianity), essence is predefined and eternal. a soul, purpose, or form that exists before the thing itself.

In existentialism (Sartre), essence is something a person must create through free choice and action. It does not exist beforehand.

So essence = "what something truly is"

But the debate is whether that comes before or after existence.

What unites Platonism, Neoplatonism, and Christianity is the idea that meaning, identity, and purpose are pre-given, rooted in a higher order (Forms, God, the One). Sartre breaks from this entirely by locating meaning in radical freedom and responsibility.

Heidegger goes deeper, trying to get beneath both frameworks, asking what it means to be at all and accusing Sartre of staying within the very metaphysics he sought to escape.

So if you're really edgelording with the bullshit concept of atheism, then you'd better go all in and get with Sartre.

So no, you can't believe in a world beyond our own or eternal spirits, or anything like that and still claim to be an atheist. Because in doing so you're ascribing a meaning or a purpose to being, which is, for all the reasons stated above, a metaphysical statement.

>>508199865
And who keeps running your godless afterlife? Do you have everybody just wander for all eternity while watching how we masturbate and such?

If yes, congratulations, you have found your gods and you are a polytheist who believes that even gods don't have full control over the universe, because it came from chaos or something.

The simplest definition of a god is a top dog spiritual being. Your ghosts are your gods, you aren't an atheist

>>508200374
I said shared by every religious group in history, not every human being in history. Nor at any point did I say anything that would make you think that I'm a Christian. It should be obvious that I'm using Platonic terminology. Seems like you're just a seething dimwit who can't actually argue, so you need to project and posture to cover up your absolute lack of an education on this subject.

>>508200402

In other words, Redditor midwits GTFO.

Thank you for coming to this thread to get your asshole ripped open.

>>508178994 (OP)
90% of atheists are just rebelling against mommy and daddy because they were mean and took them to church. The rest are just plain retarded. ALL of them couldn't explain even the most basic concepts of stellar formation or abiogenesis or evolution. They take what their preachers (scientists) say about it on pure faith alone.

>>508200402
>So essence = "what something truly is"
So truth. As an atheist I can agree in this context of essence
>>508200402
>you can't believe in a world beyond our own or eternal spirits, or anything like that and still claim to be an atheist.
Sure I can
>for all the reasons stated above, a metaphysical statement.
Metaphysics is a fact for me though. A lot of things are included in that. It's nit limited to "spiritual" or "God".

>>508200502
>And who keeps running your godless afterlife?
Don't know. I'll find out when my time comes :^)

You still haven't answered my question

>>508200607
>Thank you for coming to this thread to get your asshole ripped open.
>leaps to homosex

>>508195077
checkem

>>508179252
This is easy.
The psycho and the spiritual are not at all connected and ghosts are basically old film left over from strong emotions. Emotions which while not tangible, are very mundane in nature.
Basically the same reason why the shit you talk to while tripping aren't actual Angels and Demons.
These beliefs would be mutually exclusive from the belief of a higher power.
See, bullshit fits in any hole, square or round.

>>508201146
You are not an atheist then retard. You cant keep moving the goal post and talking in circles.

Read my post again. And try to understand what this argument is really about.

All you midwit edgelord self-proclaimed atheists are all the same. You act as if you're the first person in history to make such a proposition. And that men 10x as smart as you havent been discussing this for thousands of years and have already developed ways of talking about this that actually get to the root of the question.

It is a theological (idealistic) assertion to say that Being means something. You cannot simply keep saying its not.

Please go back to my post and think more. You can do it. Because right now you are firmly in the realm of not knowing what you're talking about.

>>508193654
I believed the time travel, but the part where you weren't a virgin was a little to over the top.

>>508178994 (OP)
Nothing more pathetic, than american religion people, i cant... i dont have enough words to express, how fucking lame and pathetic you are.

>>508201146
Even setting aside ghosts and afterlives, the belief in objective truth at all means that you believe in God. The only issue here is that you're defining God incorrectly. God just means "the highest and best", so however much a thing falls short of being the highest and best, that thing falls short of being God. It's not and could never be a sky person, an arbitrary figure or an entity with personal thoughts and motivations, because all of those things are by necessity underneath truth and submissive to truth, meaning truth would take that position of highest and best by default. The only thing capable of being God is either Truth itself or something prior to and solely responsible for truth.

>>508178994 (OP)

so you're saying the pattern is they don't want any accountability

>>508198707
>There are near endless sources
Provide one
Judaism is the merging of a primitive pagan midianite volcano god (yahweh) and the high god of the pagan canaanite pantheon (el). Pre Babylonian exile jews were polytheistic yahwehist savages who sacrificed first born babies TO yahweh and asherah among others.
During and post exile jews then blatantly plagiarised and retconned the code of Hammurabi, Babylonian creation myths and Persian Zoroastrian concepts. Post exile they plagiarised middle Platonism during the Greek Seleucid hegemony. Everything they stole was then retconned and bastardised through the lens of collective jewish malignant narcissism.before being scrambled together in the Greek septuagint in Alexandria circa 300BCE. Therein jews projected their own sordid savage religious practices onto foreign gods, foreign peoples, "pagans" and "apostates" in quintessential jewish fashion. Jews steal everything, corrupt it and then claim provenance while projecting their own savagery onto others.. They are a nation of thieves and liars and those vices extend to their own retarded retconned creed, history and mythos.

>>508179327
awe im sorry, did i offend you?

>>508201700
>These beliefs would be mutually exclusive from the belief of a higher power.
>higher power
Isn't exclusive to God or gods

>>508201779
>You are not an atheist then retard
Sure am. I lack belief in God or gods. It's that simple, regardless of what strawman you throw at it.

>>508201779
>All you midwit edgelord self-proclaimed atheists are all the same
Uh no. There's gnostic and agnostic atheist.

All your mental maturation is just a turd polished with a strawman

>>508202041
>the belief in objective truth
And your subjective interpretation of what you think God may be isn't objective truth.
>The only issue here is that you're defining God incorrectly.
See? Like I just said

>>508199615
>If you claim to be an atheist then you must believe that existence or Being is entirely meaningless and random and devoid of any essence.
Perhaps you conflate atheism with materialism
Buddhists and certain schools of daoism are essentially atheist - but neither materialist nor nihilist

>>508202041
>>508199892
you believe there is a god... unless you follow a religion or a cult you're still living like a functional atheist, not trying to force your religious views on others.

>>508179701
>SOMEHOW God existing is too much to swallow.
it could be they don't actively worship a god, find the concept irrelevant to their spiritual path, think of god as a jungian concept as a theological one, and or reject orthodoxy associated with theistic god

>>508199615
>If you claim to be an atheist then you must believe that existence or Being is entirely meaningless and random and devoid of any essence
100% incorrect. Existence is extremely meaningful to me. I have a beautiful kids and a wife. I've had amazing experiences in my life and been through hard times that helped build character. There is beauty and purpose that is above me and is manifested through genuine empathy. The real act putting yourself aside for someone else.

That is the essence of my being

>>508202353

Are you seriously retarded? If Being has meaning. If there is a purpose to Being. It requires something that fits into the definition of a God or gods or the dudes behind the simulation or something like that. It's the same concept you faggot. How are you missing this?

You are not an atheist if you believe there is an essence. Because such a positive metaphysical statement is the very genesis of religion.

"This all has to mean something, what does it mean and how/why" = Religion.

Even if you're just trolling at this point you are still an insufferable midwit faggot.

>>508178994 (OP)
>criticizes atheists who believe in ghosts
you literally believe in an imaginary sky man and his zombie sand nigger jew son.

>>508202149
Origen
Plutarch
Maximus Tyrius
Aristotle

These names aren't just men who believed in a single God, they're names of men who made a broad study of ancient religions and concluded that all religions were paying homage to the same notion of a perfect unity being responsible for creating and ruling over all of existence. There are also plenty of examples of authors like Cudworth discovering the same thing in the 1600's, but I gave you examples that were closer to the source of the religions they were studying.

>>508200402
Semantics

>>508202353
>Isn't exclusive to God or gods
Yes. Just as exclusive as exclusive as a dream, but with a ghost you're just kind of sharing it with someone else, but the shitty rotoscoped version.

>>508202778
I'm just going to point you to
>>508202721

>>508202480
It is objective truth, actually. Logic proves things objectively. If what you're arguing here is that logic and reason aren't sufficient to establish objective truth, then you really are an atheist. But that also means you've contradicted yourself and destroyed your own position, because if you think there's no objective truth then you have no basis for arguing for or against anything and you surrender the argument by default.

>>508202924
Interesting take. Genuinely

>>508200746
Correct. Theyre still smarter than jew worshiping yahwehcuck christniggers

>>508203036
>It is objective truth, actually
No it isnt. The "best" argument you have is a presupposition that is based off God of the gaps.

There is no logic when your God is nothingnore than your personal feelings cloaked in "divinity"

>>508203036
>because if you think there's no objective truth
Of course there is. 2+2=4 is objectively true

>>508201779
>It is a theological (idealistic) assertion to say that Being means something
Correct. This does not concede the necessity of deities

>>508203177
Yes, it is. It doesn't matter how much you screech at it, it remains an objective and immutable fact that every effect has a cause, which necessitates an unmade first cause. You may as well be railing against "2+2=4", as if you can disprove it by insisting upon it.

>There is no logic when your God is nothingnore than your personal feelings cloaked in "divinity"
That's your false interpretation of what a God would be. In reality, God is the antithesis of personal feeling. It's pure objectivity, and if objectivity exists in any form then that thing must be God, because for something to be objective means for that thing to be higher and better than everything beneath it.

>>508202041
Yet more midwit bickering over semantics and insistence on all encompassing vague definitions of "God" based on semitic interpolation. Sad.

Here is an easy case of atheist spirituality.
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=nhGX1YCsvAM
which is a Scottish boy who reincarnated and recalls enough of his past life to visit his past family.
There is an unidentified entity that sits before puddles, and if you jump in one, you are born again.
It doesn't ask to be worshipped like a god, nor is worshipping known to garner any favors with it.
so an example spiritual goal is reincarnation recall as opposed to be absolve from a religious guilt complex

>>508203247
And why is that? Because logic dictates that it has to be so. Because logic is sufficient to establish facts. Another fact that logic has successfully established, is that every effect has a cause which precedes it. What this means, by necessity, is that there is a perfect first cause responsible for all other causes. Set aside the word "God" and whatever prejudiced biases you have against it for a moment, can you at least understand that there must be a first cause?

>>508178994 (OP)
There's a million times more evidence that the paranormal is real than the Jewish/Christian God being real
ask anyone in England if they've ever seen a ghost or know someone who has and they'll all have crazy stories that cannot be explained. Even people who didn't believe. How many do you know who saw Jesus or God with their own eyes?
Maybe you're the retarded one for believing in a God but not believing in ghosts or past lives

>>508203490
No, that's what you're doing. I've cleared away all semantics and bickering and reduced it to the purest point of fact, which is that Truth is the highest principle. Which is something that literally every human being agrees on. Anyone who disagrees with that is not a human being, by definition. If a human being is a rational animal, then somebody who rejects truth and reason is by his own admission just an animal.

>>508202863
>Aristotle
A monist. The Monad is not your semitic god of foreskins. Simple as. That's exactly the projection I speak of.

>>508202487

All of you are seduced by the language.

All world religions, by expressing truth through language, build systems that fix meaning in symbolic terms turning fluid, lived experience into static metaphysical structures. Whether it’s the soul in Christianity, the Self in Hinduism, the Tao in Taoism, or divine law in Islam, each presupposes an essence that precedes existence. A pre-given order or purpose that defines what we are. This aligns with the idealist tradition, where meaning is discovered, not created.

Existentialism, by contrast, insists that existence precedes essence. That we must first be, and only then define ourselves.

For Heidegger, even existentialism can fall into the same trap if it treats human subjectivity as the ground of meaning. He warns that both religion and traditional philosophy mistake language for being. They reify words and concepts, and in doing so, forget the deeper question of Being itself. True thinking must overcome metaphysics entirely and return to a more primordial encounter with Being as it reveals itself, not as it is spoken or theorized.

You cannot be an atheist while also believing that existence has meaning that must be discovered as opposed to invented by humans.

>>508203383
>Yes, it is. It
You're welcome to your personal feelings and opinions but I see no reason to believe them

>>508203383
>objective and immutable fact that every effect has a cause
Or where in an infinite cycle or entropy, when it build up POP, everything expands rapidly, then the fuse is lit (time) and we're back to building entropy again. Does that mean we live the same lives over and over? I dunno. Maybe or maybe when entropy pops, it gets reconfigured.

Anyways it's just as plausible as saying "God" did it. The real honest answer to what started it all is "I don't know" because no one does.
>>508203383
>That's your false interpretation of what a God would be
The fact that you haven't defined God and made that statement proves my point.

Now tell me what your opinions on "God" is

>>508178994 (OP)
I've met atheists who mystify and worship LMMs, attribute superhuman powers to them, ask them for guidance and leadership every day. They desperately want gods, any god, just not THE god. It's almost funny how naive and misguided they are. Easy prey for any third rate new age AI cult.

>>508203749
Are you retarded? I'm not a Christian nor have I argued for Christianity at any point throughout this entire thread. I have repeatedly and clearly stated that every religion is just an attempt to explain the One.

>>508203572
>And why is that? Because logic dictates that it has to be so
And it's demonstrable. Your favorite flavor of god isn't

>>508203572
Well, no. Could just be a web of interrelated causes or infinitely flowing causality that loops or something. By attempting to evaluate this "objectively" you anoint yourself God, capable of knowing and experiencing all of reality at once

All such arguments for God fall apart as you must be God to make the argument you are making. You, personally, cannot know. Buddhism rejects your argument at its most basic root.

>>508185144
>it’s retarded to claim to know there is no God.
Then it's also just as retarded to claim to know there is a God.

>>508203383
asking this again >>508202531
ok you believe there is a god. now what? how does this belief or fact makes you live differently than a functional atheist?

>>508202911

This is the opposite of semantics you fucking retarded inbred bong muslim.

I shouldn't be surprised at all the retards on here, but I am.

>>508203967
Don't ask them to do charity lol they'll spit on you. Nobody here are christians. Christians would not be here

>>508203732
Truth is not a deity nigger - least of all a jewish one.
>>508203791
>You cannot be....
Evidently you can

>>508203791
>You cannot be an atheist while also believing that existence has meaning that must be discovered as opposed to invented by humans.
Again, this is incorrect. Genuine empathy has to be discovered/experienced before you really can understand it.

And meaning is invented by humans. We assign that our subjective preferences

You're not really good at this

>>508203814
>You're welcome to your personal feelings
Reason isn't a personal feeling. It's objective fact.

>Or where in an infinite cycle or entropy
Nope, there's no such thing as an infinite cycle with no cause. That's a logical impossibility, it refutes itself because an infinite ladder by definition loops back on itself and makes effect and cause indistinguishable, not to mention the fact that an absence of a first cause means that it would never have been caused to exist in the first place. The fact that we live in a world of clear cause and effect makes that a nonsense proposition.

>The fact that you haven't defined God
Yes, I did. God is the first cause, like I said several other times.

>>508179327
You've never seen that archive search screencap? "Christ is king" before and after 2016? This place got flooded with retarded evangelical niggerfaggots when social media was purging them. And as the saying goes anon, remember, you're here forever.

>>508203880
>every religion is just an attempt to explain the One.
Is that so? Some are clearly just manifestations of collective malignant narcissism eg judaism

>>508202721

If you believe that all of this meaning has been created by you or other people and that there is no purpose to existence itself, to be discovered or revealed. That all of creation is a random meaningless accident, and that it's up to humans to invent their own meaning, then yes, you are an atheist.

>>508204052
charity is a false virtue anyway.
if you spend x million $$ to feed hungry mouths of the world, you will spend twice as much in the future, also they come to your country to call you privileged and spoiled for wanting to be paid above local minimum wage

>>508203979
>muslim.
Fuck muhammad
I'm essentially a panetheistic monist. I like plotinus and daoism

>>508204357
>I will view goodness through the most evil and defeated lens possible and call it meaningless

Oh wow I have so much to learn from you guru tell me more.

Leave this place kid, you don't need to start here

>>508204190
>Reason isn't a personal feeling. It's objective fact.
Sure. Your opinions about God isn't amongst them

>>508204190
>>Or where in an infinite cycle or entropy
>Nope, there's no such thing as an infinite cycle with no cause. That's a logical impossibility,
Same applies to "God" then. Tha KS for playing :^)
>>508204190
>>The fact that you haven't defined God
>Yes, I did. God is the first cause
That's not defining God, it's you not knowing the first cause and filling that gap with God

>>508203912
Buddhism agrees with my argument completely, actually. Buddhism rejects the idea of infinite loops explicitly, for the exact same reasons. If reality were an infinite loop then there could be no Karma, because effect would loop back into cause and make Karma unjust and incoherent. You ought to read up on Buddhist logic, because it's perfectly in line with Platonism and establishes a necessary first cause in Nirvana, for all of the same reasons why the Good must exist.

>>508204457
I admire your stalwart attempt anon. However, you cannot reasonably argue with theists.

>>508204257
All kikes are atheists, judaism isn't a religion it just pretends to be one. It's explicitly the worship of matter and the rejection of the incorporeal, which is why kikes believe that truth is subjective and that reality can be changed by lying about it (pilpul).

>>508204315
>it's up to humans to invent their own meaning, then yes, you are an atheist.
this is okay and makes sense especially if one's moral framework considers self-determinism either a trait of sentience or humanity

>>508204315
>If you believe that all of this meaning has been created by you or other people and that there is no purpose to existence itself, to be discovered or revealed
I'm going to point you right back to
>>508202721
>Existence is extremely meaningful to me. I have a beautiful kids and a wife. I've had amazing experiences in my life and been through hard times that helped build character. There is beauty and purpose that is above me and is manifested through genuine empathy. The real act putting yourself aside for someone else.
>>508204315
>That all of creation is a random meaningless
I don't believe that.

You really need to learn what a strawman is because that's all you're doing my man

>>508204474
Incorrect. One of the main tenets of Buddhism is that one cannot even consider the source or fate of karma.

You people on here have zero information about Buddhism and have said zero correct things about it in my life

You award yourself internet wins and that's why you're sitting here. Why learn when you can just be wrong and claim to be right? ROFL.

>>508201146
>you haven't answered my question afterlife requiring gods
>even though you have pointed out that my afterlife is populated by gods even if there isn't anything else but the ghosts I believe in
You lost on definitions, you can stop being obtuse

>>508204557
I appreciate you anon. I do it for the lurkers really

>>508204438
the mathematical fate of outgroup altruism is extinction
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=goePYJ74Ydg

>>508204632
Still haven't answered my man, sorry

>>508178994 (OP)
I just don't believe in Yahweh.

>>508204190
>>508204474
You keep evading this question >>508203967
HOW DOES BELIEVING THERE IS A GOD MAKE YOU LIVE YOUR LIFE ANY DIFFERENTLY THAN A FUNCTIONAL ATHEIST? do you actually believe you have more in common with religious cucks than atheists just because you both believe in god?

>>508204094
Truth is the only thing that could ever be a deity because Truth is by definition the highest, best and most dominant force. This is where the fracture is, you're defining deity as "big person who does big things", whereas actual philosophers have always defined deity as "The highest, best, most divine and least submissive thing in existence". That highest and best thing must be Truth, by definition, because anything that isn't Truth is submissive to Truth. Basically your entire rejection of calling it a deity is because you have a wrong and prejudicial idea about what the word deity means.

>>508204733
>What some researcher said is the truth and can be generalized

Dude, leave. You aren't able to make cogent arguments with adults. You are a kid and need to not be influenced by this environment. Go play outside it's Saturday.

>>508178994 (OP)
Atheism is vacuous grandiloquence

>>508204599
Simply incorrect. Orthokikes very much believe in their demongod yahweh who they falsely assert as The Monad.

>>508179561
You are a retard.>>508179597

>>508204856
you have no argument. Just condescension.

>>508204938
The argument is you have to be 18 to post here and you aren't. Start with book. Internet make you stupid.

>>508204830
>because you have a wrong and prejudicial idea about what the word deity means.
No you
Deities are lesser powers that emanate from the One - which itself is NOT a deity but rather is beyond classification being the ground of ALL classification. Ineffable. Simple as

>>508205035
You don't even know who made the video.
You don't even know who's work he merely illustrates.
You probably can't explain why charity is a virtue at all.
The only thing you can do is project a false image on someone you disagree with.

Btw for everyone itt. The concept of the soul, as articulated in De Anima, doesn't require gods. You can literally, working from Aristotle, which most of Christian theology is based on, just as easily imagine a world that has ghosts and eternal souls but has no god. If you don't understand that you don't understand the western thought and Christianity well enough to have a discussion.

>>508205227
Correct

>>508204810
Knowing that there's a God means I value incorporeal things like virtue more than corporeal things like wealth and pleasure. My happiness comes from my own goodness and my connection with The Good, not from anything external.

Average people who call themselves religious and follow religious traditions are actually just atheists, because they live in fear of not getting what they desire. They're materialistic, not spiritual, thus they aren't actually religious. A genuinely religious person is a rare thing, that title only properly belongs to somebody who lives in principle for principle's sake.

>>508205227
You don't need to work from Aristotle either. The idea that these things must be argued is toppest tier point missing.

Logic. From apes. Lol.

Any viewpoint claiming to understand reality, the soul, or God anoints the viewer God.

>>508205227
No, you can't. Aristotle was absolutely explicit in saying that there is a divine first cause responsible for giving us souls.

>>508205350
I feel the same way as you and I don't believe in God though. So you didn't answer the question really

It's time to admit to yourself that goodness comes from you, not something else. That makes it worth more. Not less

>>508178994 (OP)
The even more retarded shit is they respect Islam. Just be a heathen.

>>508204743
>Why does an afterlife or ghosts require a God or gods?
Because whatever spiritual beings are ghosts/in your afterlife are gods per definition, if there is no better spiritual being than them.
Next you gonna ask why does bank or gold require existence of money.

>chapter 1
>talking snake

>>508205603
No. The unmoved mover isn't exactly that way. You need to reread Aristotle and Plato. Directly, not through the Scholastics.

>>508205756
Get this: he's actually the good guy, Jesus Christ. OT God is a demon.

>>508205610
You do, you're just refusing to call the highest principle God because modern culture has left the word "God" with a bad smell for you. Call it The One if you want, it doesn't matter, but if you live in principle then you are by definition recognizing an apex principle.

>It's time to admit to yourself that goodness comes from you
My goodness, comes from me, but in order for me to be good there must first be a Good which I can live up to. That Good, with a capital G, is the perfect realization of goodness. It has to exist in order for anyone to be good, because otherwise there'd be no objective good for them to be.

>>508204163


You’re contradicting yourself, and you’re wrong. You can’t claim to be an atheist and at the same time say there’s an essence to meaning or creation. That’s a metaphysical position, it implies there’s some pre-existing, objective structure or purpose built into reality. That’s exactly what atheism rejects.

Then you try to walk it back by saying “meaning is invented” and “empathy is discovered through experience.” Great, that’s existentialism. That means existence precedes essence. Meaning isn’t out there waiting to be found, it’s created by us, in context, over time.

But the moment you say there’s an essence to creation, something fixed, universal, inherent, you’re slipping back into idealism or religious metaphysics, just without calling it God. You’ve smuggled in the very structure you claim to reject.

So no, you can’t be an atheist and also believe there’s an essential meaning to existence. That’s not just inconsistent. It’s philosophically incoherent.

You are a midwit redditor tranny who is thinks his babble is genius

>>508205814
Yes. The unmoved mover is exactly that way. I have read Plato and Aristotle. You ought to take your own advice, because it's painfully obvious you have zero idea what you're talking about.

>>508205717
>Because whatever spiritual beings are ghosts/in your afterlife are gods per definition
Who's definition? Yours?

>>508205350
why does suffering or evil exist? why haven't all cultures universally agreed on what's good and what's not?

>>508205603
>there is a divine first cause
Which you conflate with "God" and deity.

>>508205904
>You’re contradicting yourself, and you’re wrong
A claim you'll never back up as you go back to your circular strawman

>>508205847
An ophite gnostic. Rare.

reply chain summary

in this thread: a fucking idiot who thinks charity is a virtue but can't explain why and resorts to cheap insults to clutter the thread with his bullshit
>>508205035
>>508204856
>>508204438

>>508204357
>>508204733

>>508204830
The Truth is not the superorganism but a face of it.
Deity, Demon, Dominion. Ye Elohim, a small g god, in trespass. By choice. In Idol-World.
>>508204864
>>508205173
Yahweh is the Most High Elohim and is all things.

>>508205865
Claiming to know God and vaguely accepting an ordered one might exist are vastly different philosophical perspectives. The ordered one to me is, likely, the universe of causality itself. It is not something to live up to as you assert, in more than an abstract way. A knowable God anoints the knower God. An unknown oneness begs scholarship, pursuit, and goodness for its own sake

>>508205847
>snake
>good guy
Then why his actions directly resulted in Adam and Eve dying for one another, as they were pushing the blame instead of caring about saving from blame their partner?
Snake was pushing them to piss off God and couldn't nor would have done anything if God decided to destroy Adam and Eve

>but much flood
Came with a warning, people should have built their ships
>but much Sodom and Gomor
Everyone asked God to get rid of them
>but much Egyptian plagues
Per Egyptian law, the holiest and the mightiest could have done whatever. Pharaoh shouldn't have enjoyed it so much in the first place

>>508205922
Suffering exists to teach you detachment, to help you realize that your happiness can only be found by looking inward and not by chasing external things.

Evil doesn't have self-existence, evil is actually just a privation. It's the absence of goodness. Evil only exists where people fail to be good.

>why haven't all cultures universally agreed on what's good and what's not?
They have, at least among the learned. Every culture on earth has realized that wisdom is good and error is evil, and that a person's well-being depends on them being wise and therefore good. The reason why the average commoner can't agree with these ideas is because he mistakenly beliefs that pain is evil and that pleasure is good, and frames his worldview around those ideas rather than around the knowledge that only being virtuous is good and falling short of virtue is evil.

>>508205987
It's backed up in the post you absolute retard.

You’re deflecting because you don’t have a consistent position. I already backed it up in detail by showing that claiming an “essence to creation” implies a pre-existing, objective structure, which contradicts your claim that meaning is invented by humans. That’s not a strawman. It’s your own contradiction, laid bare.

What you’re calling a “circular strawman” is actually a direct critique of your position’s internal incoherence. If you can’t engage with that without dismissing it, you’re not arguing. You’re just avoiding.

If you believe meaning is invented and contingent on subjective experience, then there is no essence to creation. Full stop. Anything else is just word games trying to mask a metaphysical claim you don’t want to own.

>>508205921
Yeah, the one you aren't even trying to contest and is also aligned with polytheist religions, particularly with the ones worshipping ancestors like Japanese one

>>508205929
Nope, the conflating is happening on your end. You mistakenly believe that there's excess baggage on those words, that God implies human imperfection. That's not how Plato or any other philosopher used the word God or Deus.

>>508206242
Human existence was frozen in nothingness without the violation. It had no qualities, no story, no causes nor effects. Humans were in effect a written story brought to life by their sin.

An intelligent person would evaluate this as the creator entity being a lying imprisoner, not a creator.

>>508206159
Yahweh was a nigger god of the midianites - analogous to the storm deity baal - his primary competition
EL was the MOST HIGH god of the canaanite pantheon - father of all gods/baals including your nigger god yahweh

>>508206295
i see, that's why they remove the clitoris of all girls and sew them in some low IQ islamic countries. it's to teach them detachment

>>508205916
I think the God you are using would make sense if you just used the Hegelian Absolute instead. Your making an argument purely on you using the proper now Go dot mean the Absolute. You should just say that instead.
>>508205394
You do if you want to unravel the weird thread going on here. As the confusion of how someone could be an atheist and believe in ghosts isn't a question about metaphysics but a question but instead is a question about the history of metaphysics in the west.

>>508206398
>there's excess baggage on those words
There is now. Thanks to moronic yahwehists.

>>508206295
yahweh teaches his chosen people the opposite. for life to be enjoyed and endowed with material wealth.
and here we are with them controlling the media, finance, and politics, trying to drag us into a war with Iran

>>508206224
>Claiming to know God and vaguely accepting an ordered one might exist are vastly different philosophical perspectives
They aren't different at all, as long as you define God correctly and not through the grossly ignorant modern lens of "God = sky man who rides a cloud and throws lightning".

>the universe of causality itself. It is not something to live up to as you assert
If the universe is the same thing as reality, and reality is the same thing as truth, then it absolutely must be something you live up to. Our well-being is determined by how well we revere the truth. Anyone who fashions himself to truth is secure in his well-being, and anyone who tries to fashion truth to himself is responsible for destroying himself through his own evil and ignorance.

>An unknown oneness begs scholarship, pursuit, and goodness for its own sake
That's exactly what "God" has been to so many people, including Plato and Aristotle. Not to mention, Aquinas and Augustine. The scientific rigor that these people exposed their own beliefs to deserves nothing but respect. Those men didn't have a superstitious bone in their bodies, so to imply that "God" is somehow weighted down with intellectual dishonesty is itself a highly dishonest proposition.

>>508206615
I don't feel there is any confusion. People who go on the attack vs atheists are typically stupid. 120s IQ measured in real life gifted former atheist genuine pattern recognizer here.

I did say I don't believe in God earlier, but I don't call myself an atheist anymore either, I think the universe is probably a thought or something. Also aliens genetically elevated us to being sapient so under some definitions they are our Gods. Lol.

>>508206407
>I complain about God not letting to eat the fruit
>when God was the one who made it possible by putting it in the garden in the first place

With the original sin came suffering. The original sin was inevitable, but had to happen from our action because God didn't want to make us suffer without us asking for it
God's intention for us it to put us on thrones alongside His and to rule over the angels. You don't get that for pretty eyes

>>508206546
No, they did that because they're backwards savages. But as far as the universe itself is concerned, even that suffering can be put to good use. The fact that I was regretfully circumcised actually has given me a degree of detachment, because losing this mangled body would be a relief.

>>508206692
>endowed with material wealth

Man, nothing is sadder than these new age heretical demonic cult fake Christians. I want you to look up what a hair shirt is. That's how you get close to your God.

God knows you don't know the Bible which I studied heavily as an atheist. You fuckin brown loser.

>>508206476
I really like the Baal cycle because it taught me that a storm god can also be a rain god, and a sea god isn't a rain god.

>>508206615
"The Absolute" is exactly what God has always meant. The only confusion here is on your end, because you've let that word become tainted by its modern misusage.

>>508206875
>God's intention for us it to put us on thrones alongside His and to rule over the angels.

Heretical and unsourced

>>508206665
Sorry, I refuse them that power. Kikes can't ruin words, nor can they destroy truth. Out of the literal hundreds of ancient texts I've read, that's the way God is used, and that's the way I'm going to continue to use it. I'm not so weak minded that I can be tricked into thinking that words have a bad taste.

>>508206789
any thread that's religion vs atheist should start with a definition of God because we're dealing with

god as in a powerful spirit, broadly
god like above but demands worship
non-theistic/psycho-social god as described in Carl Jung's work
God, as in Yahweh
God like Goduan or Godin, an eastern variation of Odin or Wodin

>>508206789
Yeah I am just pointing out the idea of someone believing in immortal souls, or even energy that can exist after death doesn't really require a god to exist. Maybe it implies a we were all collectively the prime mover along the way, but that would depend on how they construct their understanding of ghosts
>>508207021
What a stupid post.

>>508207003
Indeed. Never get your sea gods mixed with your storm/rain gods brah.

>>508207208
>no rebuttal
You're wrong, and you know that you're wrong. You have a chip on your shoulder and get angry at the word "God", even when the person using it is being absolutely crystal clear that they're talking about The One. That's your problem. That's your failing. That's your weakness. Fix yourself.

>>508205227
This abyssal denial of the anthropic principle for animism of forms is idolatrous heresy.
The Mystery Schools are far too spooky to not realize that we are the food. Without the Truth of the Middle Way and the Narrow Gate there will be nothing worth the harvest.
In what system are there not seasons. Only in chaos without command. This is not like the record of the prophets.

>>508206354
>It's backed up in the post you absolute retard
Again, see
>>508205987
>you go back to your circular strawman
It's easy to fight arguments you make up, lol

>>508206875
nice story though i prefer tolkien. care to explain why is god obsessed with the removal of foreskins? why not just design men without it?

>>508205921
>Who's definition? Yours?
>>508206363
>Yeah
Oo, why should I believe your personal feelings and opinions?

>>508206942
still no argument.
still a stupid insult.

even the most casual onlookers will know you for what your are
>>508206111

>>508207204
Yahweh demands worship. I think the problem with theism and the difference between a person like me and theists is fealty

Why would a god demand stuff of you? It's just an absolutely bizarre thought. Furthermore, the idea of Jesus is ironically a teach a man to fish vs give a man fish parable that Christians get wrong!

Buddhism teaches you to fish, and I feel is the best introduction to logically consistent spiritual thought regarding a greater thing. At least for some.

The fealty aspect of Christianity is a perversion. We team up with Ahura Mazda but we have to suck God's dick and cut part of our dick off

>>508207139
>Kikes can't ruin words
They can and they do. Theyve been doing so for 2300 yrs minimum
>I'm not so weak minded that I can be tricked into thinking that words have a bad taste.
Aren't you a special little snowflake

>>508179327
Too many brown "people"

>>508207507
>Aren't you a special little snowflake
I'm not the one having a visceral and histrionic reaction to a word. It's even more pathetic that I've fully qualified what I mean by that word, and that you're still having that reaction.

>>508207582
We need some kind of wrist worn device that constantly measures the users skin tone and uploads a verification token to a trusted encryption platform

Imagine being able to actually see someone is white before reading their post or arguing with them

Call it the iMWhite

>>508207317
You need to be using the word god, not God. God means Yahweh. If you are looking for a non-Yahweh version of God you need to use the Absolute. If you are looking for the concept of a god please use the word god lower cases. Thank you!
>>508207303
I do like the rain/war/thunder/fire god of Yahweh though. It's a really interesting mix. Like he is a general sky god who also does war in a bloodshed way. Seems like an Aries/Zeus mix.

>>508207670
>having a visceral and histrionic reaction to a word.
I'm not. You're exhibiting a visceral and histrionic insistence on it's continued employment.
> that you're still having that reaction.
Only in your mind chum
Don't conflate the signified with the signifier.

>>508207801
No, God means Jupiter. Or The Good. Or The One. The capital G means it's the perfect form. Lowercase "god" would only refer to the generative beings that are contained within Intellect. You really, really ought to take your own advice and actually read up on this stuff sometime. You have zero clue what you're talking about.

>>508208006
You are. No amount of "no u" is going to change the fact. I hope you can grow up and out of whatever this emotional rut is, because it's unbecoming.

Dont care wich Abrahamic jew cult you are into!

>>508208042
This is schizophrenia. It reads like the side of a bottle of Dr. Bronner's soap. Please take your meds anon.

>>508208195
Thanks for proving my point beyond any doubt. You don't even have a passing familiarity with Plato, his ideas or his terminology.

>>508207801
>I do like the rain/war/thunder/fire god of Yahweh though.
I don't. He's like a charmless poundshop version of zeus with a deep seated inferiority complex and generalised sadism and resentment. Like jewry.

IMO return the word God to Godin|Woden|Odinn.
Refer to Yahweh as Yahweh, Jupiter as Jupiter, and so on as they already have their own names.

>>508178994 (OP)
You don't have a foreskin though.