Why did the Catholic Church remove the second commandment from the Bible? It says you cannot create images and bow down to them.

>>508466995 (OP)
The beast is the vatican

>>508466995 (OP)
Because this is typical catholic bullshit.

This is one of my biggest gripes about them as well, they lord themselves as this old ancient institution built upon tradition, rules, authority and law.
Every single rule and law they makes is super duper important and cant be broken under any circumstances....except for when it can.
>Only an ordained priest can baptize you! no one else can!
....well except if you cant get to a priest then as long as you do it with your most Ernest of heart you can be baptized by anyone even your self....OTHER WISE IS DOES NOT COUNT!
>You can only have your sins forgiven by a priest in confession and only then can you be put in a good state of grace!
...well except for if you physically cant get to a confession, then you can pray to marry to deliver your prary to Christ (Which already goes against biblical teaching because God literally ripped the veil from top to bottom allowing everyone a direct line to god)
>Christ is for everyone and only through him can you get into heaven!
....except for if we decide to say you cant, then no go

Catholics make all these fucking rules but only follow them when its convenient for them.

>>508466995 (OP)
Seethe kike. The mother of God is greater than any of your pagan Gods. Baal Mot Shamash and Sin are demon scum

>>508466995 (OP)
its an interesting thing for sure. all the justifications revolve around some made up stuff about not worshiping the statue but the person it represents etc....but the commandment doesn't say anything about that. It just says dont make such statues or bow down to them.

it couldn't be any more clear but somehow they still prefer the tradition of their cult to what the Bible says.

>>508468460
Rules are nothing but shackle. I am not resteained by your bullshit.

>>508466995 (OP)

Since the Old Testament, God has ordained or permitted images to be made that symbolically lead to the salvation: thus the brazen serpent, the ark of the covenant and the cherubim.

>>508468460
Dude never heard of the reformation.

>>508468831
I said catholic not Christian anon. There is a difference.
One of the only based churches are the Presbyterians, mostly because they are the only one that the ADL has a hard on against because they dont follow the bullshit that "jews" are the chosen people of god anymore.

>>508466995 (OP)
Christians don't have to follow the old testament. Catholics can eat bacon and sausage for example

>>508466995 (OP)

When you pray the holy Rosary, ask yourself this: Am I praying to a tiny iron cross and a bunch of beads, or am I praying to Jesus Christ? If it's the former-- and you're treating your Rosary as a magical device, full of power, which you are praying to for the purpose of receiving some enchantment-- then it is a graven image. If it's the latter, and you're praying to Jesus Christ, using the rosary as a device for doing so, then it's okay.

But OP is a faggot, which is never okay.

>>508468709
>why no, of course i dont care what the Bible says

>>508469232
Theres a category difference between the Decalogue and dietary laws anons

>>508469443
most of the rosary is praying to Mary.

Do Catholics Worship Mary? Is It Idolatry?

No, Catholics do not worship Mary in the way worship is properly understood in Christianity.

Catholic teaching distinguishes between:

Latria – Worship or adoration given to God alone.

Dulia – Veneration or honor given to saints.

Hyperdulia – A special honor given to Mary alone, because of her unique role as the mother of Jesus.

Catholics honor Mary and may ask for her prayers (intercession), but they do not give her the worship due only to God.

Why the Confusion?
Some Catholic practices—like praying the "Hail Mary," using statues, or participating in Marian processions—can look like worship to those unfamiliar with Catholic theology. But these are meant as expressions of deep respect, not divine worship.

Think of it like honoring a great hero or asking a close friend to pray for you—Catholics see Mary as the greatest of saints and the mother of Jesus, not as a goddess.

Is It Idolatry?
From the Catholic view: No. Worship belongs only to God. Honoring Mary is not idolatry but a way of respecting her role in salvation history.

From some Protestant perspectives: It can seem like idolatry, especially if Marian devotion appears to compete with Christ. This is a theological disagreement rooted in different views on prayer, saints, and intercession.

In Summary:
Catholics honor, not worship, Mary.

Worship (latria) is for God alone.

Marian devotion is not considered idolatry within Catholicism, though it is viewed with concern by some other Christians.

>>508470602
>it is viewed with concern by some other Christians.
thou shalt not bow down to them

>>508470602
>Going through all this work to justify praying to Mary.
This is a peak cope post. Read your bible, Christ literally opened up a direct line to God for all people you dont need to pray to Mary, you can pray to Christ directly to god.

>>508470866
Bowing to a picture does not necessarily mean you are worshipping it — the meaning depends on intention and context.

When Bowing Is Not Worship:
In many cultures and religions, bowing is a sign of respect, honor, or reverence, not worship.

Example: Bowing before a national flag, a photo of deceased loved ones, or a respected elder is common in many societies. No one assumes that means you are "worshipping" them.

Catholic context: Bowing before a statue or image of Jesus, Mary, or a saint is meant to show respect for what or who the image represents, not the object itself.

In Catholic theology, worship (latria) is directed only to God. A bow to a statue of Mary, for example, is not to the statue or even to Mary as a divine figure, but as a gesture of honor, like saluting a hero.

When Bowing Could Be Worship:
If someone believes the picture or statue itself has divine power or treats it as a god, then that crosses into idolatry. This is explicitly condemned in the Bible and by the Catholic Church itself (see Exodus 20:4–5).

>>508471314
THOU SHALT NOT BOW DOWN TO IT

>>508471169
>pray to Christ directly to god.
"We can and should pray directly to God—the source of all gifts (James 1:17). However, it does not follow that you should pray only to God. This is a “both/and” situation, not an “either/or” one.

We naturally sense that it is helpful to have others praying for us, and down through the ages Christians have asked one another for their prayers. But this would be impossible if God wanted us to make requests only of him. The objection thus would prove too much.

In truth, God desires that we pray for each other. This is illustrated by the Lord’s Prayer, in which we pray for ourselves and others (“Give us this day our daily bread,” “Forgive us our debts,” “Lead us not into temptation”; Matt. 6:11–13); by Jesus’ exhortation to pray even for our enemies (Matt. 5:44); and by Paul’s exhortation, “I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men” (1 Tim. 2:1).

God also desires that we ask others for their intercession, as illustrated by Paul’s requests for his readers to pray for him (Rom. 15:30; 2 Cor. 1:11; Eph. 6:18–19; 1 Thess. 5:25; 2 Thess. 3:1–2)—a request also made by the author of Hebrews (13:18). Asking the saints for their intercession merely extends the principle. We may ask Christians in heaven for their intercession for the same reason we ask Christians on earth: It helps to have others praying for you, to not be alone in prayer. This is particularly the case when one’s prayer partners are righteous, for “the prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects” (James 5:16b). None are more righteous than those with God in heaven.

TIP

Scripture nowhere prohibits asking the saints for their intercession.

Things that are not prohibited by Scripture and that have a rational basis are permitted under Christian liberty, and this practice qualifies on both counts. (Gal. 2:4)."

>>508470198
Yes. God is above the Bible.

Wow, Christians don't bow and pray to crosses? News to me

>>508472514
Normal christians will always bow to the cross, but a significant number of retarded american protestants think even this is idolatry

>>508469232
Since when don't they have to obey the 10 commandments?

>>508471452
>THOU SHALT NOT BOW DOWN TO IT
"The question assumes that bowing before something or someone necessarily involves worship. But this is not true.

For example, Solomon didn’t offer worship to his mother when he bowed before her in 1 Kings 2:19. It was simply a gesture of honor, since Bathsheba was the queen mother. Isaac wasn’t prophesying that the nations would worship his son Jacob when he said, “Let peoples serve you, and nations bow down to you” (Gen. 27:29). He was merely indicating that the nations would honor Jacob and his descendants.

Moreover, the act of bowing can’t be idolatrous in and of itself, because God commands that it be directed to finite beings. For example, in Revelation 3:9 Jesus says that he will make “those of the synagogue of Satan” “bow down” before the feet of the Christians in Philadelphia. If bowing before another were an act of worship, then Jesus would be commanding idolatry. But that’s absurd.

It’s possible that someone who bows before a statue of Mary might offer the statue, or Mary herself, worship. But the idolatry would not be due to the act of bowing. It would be due to the intentional offering of worship; like in the case of Cornelius who bowed before Peter and worshipped him (Acts 10:25-26). If a Catholic were to do such a thing, they would need to repent and begin offering worship to the one who alone has a right to our worship—namely, God."

>>508466995 (OP)
because the 'queen of heaven' is the pagan goddess. catholics worship ishtar. aka Isis aka many other names

>>508466995 (OP)
retarded ass protestant with retarded ass opinions. go fuck yourself

>>508471761
>Scripture nowhere prohibits asking the saints for their intercession.
In all cases of people trying to communicate with the dead its definitely a bad thing.
>wah the saints aren't dead
they are physically dead. its very simple - dont try to communicate with them. Remember that time Saul tried to talk to dead Samuel? What did the BIble say about that?

What does the NT say over and over again about prayer? It's always to God, always looking to Him.

Why you guys feel you should or even want to pray to another is bizarre.

>>508472022
God was the one who wrote the 10 commandments with his own finger in stone.

>>508467918
based

>>508473120
>muh Ishtar
so tired of this shit
>uh did you know there were female goddesses in history, must be the same as Mary!
all the collective brainpower of an earthworm

>>508473087
Why dont you like this simple guideline for life?

>You shall not make idols for yourselves or erect an image or pillar, and you shall not set up a figured stone in your land to bow down to it, for I am the Lord

>>508473188
the prots are also guilty of idolatory. worshipping a humble carpenter is idolatory. the commandments forbid the worship of anyone or anything but God exclulusively. this includes carpenters, corpses on crosses, statues of carpenter's mothers and so forth

>>508473000
Since Christ summed them up as
>"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind".
> "Love your neighbor as yourself,"
That's all you need to follow, anything else is Jew law.

>>508473120
ishtar isnt even real skizoid

>>508473522
Jesus is God so it's ok to worship Him and no, we should not be bowing down to images, statues etc etc. its really pretty clear and easy to understand.

>>508473273
>trying to communicate with the dead its definitely a bad thing.
"In Catholicism, praying to the dead, specifically the saints, is not considered communication with the dead in the sense condemned by Scripture. The Bible condemns necromancy, or conjuring spirits, as seen in Deuteronomy 18:10-11. However, asking saints for intercession is different. Jesus Himself communicated with Moses and Elijah during the Transfiguration (Luke 9:29-31), showing that such interaction is not inherently wrong. Praying for the dead is also a biblical practice. In 2 Maccabees 12:42, prayers are offered for fallen soldiers. Additionally, 2 Timothy 1:18 suggests Paul prayed for Onesiphorus, possibly deceased. This tradition reflects a belief in the communion of saints and the efficacy of intercessory prayer."

>>508473350
They are all the same goddess however much you dont wanna hear it. The Romans were pagans. Roman Catholicism is the Roman religion. Catholic just means universal, as in for everyone. It's literally Roman religion for everyone. that's why the popes worship suns and shit right in front of your fucking face. they're not even hiding it

>>508473566
The whole point of Him saying that is because those two concepts encapsulate all of the Law. If you were keeping the law perfectly you'd be doing those two things.
So you can't ignore a clear commandment in the Decalogue regarding not bowing down to images/statues and still pretend that you're loving God with all your heart etc.

>>508473837
>Jesus is God
The trinity is Babylonian in origin.
and if Jesus was God then why did Jesus worship and pray to himself?
at best Jesus was God's avatar. and worshipping avatars is idolatory.
why worship the avatar when you can just worship God?

>>508473973
>"In Catholicism, praying to the dead, specifically the saints, is not considered communication with the dead
yes, i know its not. but their considerations are in opposition to the Bible, which has no such thing as praying to dead Christians for their help. It does contain a multitude of examples of Christians praying to God so why not just stick with that?

>>508473566
If you love God with all your heart you will obey him and care about what he said.

>>508474225
no its not. has nothing to do with that or any of the so called similar examples you might want to dredge up, and from your questions its very very obvious you have not the slightest idea about Trinitarianism.
>avatar
nope, that doesn't fit the revealed data in the NT.

>>508473988
so, do you advocate for Hellenic paganism then, or what's your angle?

>>508474479
it's obvious I know more than you.
but let's break down the Jesus thing.
either:
>Jesus was God
so why would Jesus worship and pray to himself?
>Jesus was half God half human
that's called a demigod.
>Jesus was just a dude
this is the most likely one

>>508468571
> in John gospel when Jesus is being said that his mother and brothers seek him he says my family is those who follow my word
> Jesus doesn’t refer to Mary as mother but as “woman”
Mary veneration as mother of god is retarded

>>508466995 (OP)
Well it'd be awkward if they outright admitted to idol worship, worship of Isis and some other shit. Freemasons being able to walk among Christians so freely without having to lie too much should've been a massive red flag.

>>508466995 (OP)
For years upon years, the Catholic Church was dead set against outward homosexuality. If you were known to be gay, seen out being gay, wanted to fuck dudes, the church would ex-comminicate you and refuse you crackers and wine.

Then on a dime they switched. After a couple thousand years of this biblical directed stance, because it is as God wrote it. Now they allow it.

Religion is made up to control weak minded people, looking for an answer.

>>508474623
I spent a long time finding the closest thing I could to the truth.
everything from fake science and satanic shit to Anglo Israelism led me to the bible. but when I read the bible it was blatantly apparent that the OT and NT were 2 seperate religions this leaving me with a choice. either the based OT of my Israelite ancestors or the non canon new age NT cuck book.
I went with the OT. so i believe in God but I don't worship Jesus or follow any of his cuckold teachings

>>508466995 (OP)
The catholic church is a giant tax exempt money laundering and human trafficking scheme. It doesn't really matter what it is that they do or don't do because at the end of the day they're just a criminal organization. They can and will justify everything because their own purposes behind closed doors are already comprised in the worst ways.

>>508474979
>so why would Jesus worship and pray to himself?
He didn't. He prayer to the Father. We believe that the one and only God exists as three co-existent co-eternal Persons sharing fully the one Being of God. This is about the most basic statement of Trinitarian belief you can get.

I can point you to some basic reading on this which will start helping you get to grips with the Scriptural data if you like.

>>508466995 (OP)
Because the first set of Ten Commandments where destroyed by Moses right after he got them and were replaced by the second set of Ten Commandments.
https://contradictionsinthebible.com/2-ten-commandments/

>>508466995 (OP)
>It says you cannot create images and bow down to them.
No it doesn't.

>>508471761
The amount of mental gymnastics that Catholics do is fucking astounding at some times.

>>508475021
Nobody believes that she created God anon. Calling her the mother of God started as just away to assert that Christ was the God-man right from conception. The NT says that Mary will be honored and called blessed, and as a non-Catholic i have no problem with that at all.

>>508475813
“You shall not make idols for yourselves or erect an image or pillar, and you shall not set up a figured stone in your land to bow down to it, for I am the Lord

>>508475691
>He didn't.
hate to be the one to tell ya, but...

>>508475865
>calling well reasoned explanations mental gymnastics
lmao

>>508466995 (OP)
>The Bible

>>508475865
its quite something isn't it. anything to defend their tradition. it really does seem that for many of them the most important thing is that their church must be defended at all costs, just like cult members do all the time for their cult.

its exactly the same with jehovahs witnesses and their 'governing body' - they will not allow themselves to admit its ever been wrong about anything, ever.

>>508468460
This is your mind on pr*testant propaganda

>>508466995 (OP)
There is no second amendment pig the magistrate is nearer if the sword the clergy the Cardinals appointed your bibble is shit your jewush satanic discredited by menselsohm demon asshole keep clogging the toilet with your satanic reminder the news alqays

>>508476086
To the Father. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God, but there are not threes Gods but One God. Just because you refuse to acknowledge one of the basic teachings of Trinitarian thought doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

The three Divine Persons communicate with each other.

>>508470602
>pray to Mary for intercession
“For there is one God, and one intercessor between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;” - 1 Timothy 2:5

If Catholic practices didn’t violate the Bible you guys wouldn’t catch near as much flak, but literally every extra-scriptural “revelation” you pagans have is contrary to God’s Word. God doesn’t contradict himself.

>>508475691
>Trinitarian belief
also there's no point in having this conversation. your not open minded enough to listen to me and I already know too much to be converted to trinitarianism

Why do Muslims and Jews complain about Christians having extra-biblical religious practices and interpreting the Bible, when the Talmud and the Hadith are both supplementary religious texts that interpret the Bible?

>>508476549
Its really interesting how Mary has been elevated in roman thelogy over the years. heres an ex-priest talking about it


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Udu-EU6l7g&pp=ygUacmljaGFyZCBiZW5uZXR0IG1hcnkgcm9tYW4%3D

>>508476630
you're not even conversant with the basic texts to have this conversation anon. its obvious from the way your carrying on about the basic concept of Persons.

>>508468716
That, and there's actually more like 17 commandments if you read all the verses. The reason we condensed all of them into 10 is because. That's it. Make yourself graven images like God commanded Moses to do with the Ark and later with the temple (chock full of graven images expressly ordered by God , just don't bow to them and worship them.

But probs already know this, they just prefer boxing straw end rather than the truth.

>>508466995 (OP)
The Catholic church, is paganism.
The Trinity... is a pagan concept. It is all over pagan religions.

>>508466995 (OP)
Because the Blessed Mother is divine you fucking fag.

>>508476503
>there are not threes Gods but One God
okay so my initial question stands.
why would God worship. and pray to himself?
Jesus doesn't tell peoppe to worship him even. Jesus came to get the backsliders to turn back to God and follow his laws.
if Jesus ever does come back and finds out a bunch of retards invented a whole new religion based around worshipping him and statues of his mother he will go fucking ape shit

>>508477097
>just don't bow to them and worship them.
No. Just dont bow down to them. There is no 'and' which lets you get around that.

>>508466995 (OP)
Also Mary is a literal vulva.

>>508466995 (OP)
holy absolute fuck, the state of meme flaggot israeli cancer threads

and anyway, you arent praying TO the fucking picture,
imagine it like "Shes praying with you"
youre not praying "TO" Mary like God or something

>>508477042
>you're not even conversant with the basic texts to have this conversation
you can keep saying that but it won't make it true. you don't have the pattern recognition and open mindedness to gain wisdom beyond the shit the online grifting preachers preach so you're not mentally qualified to have this discussion

>>508466995 (OP)
i thought you hated jews on here, so why bother with the old testament?

>>508466995 (OP)
Because the Roman Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon.

>>508466995 (OP)
>i'm jelly, yall niggaz best be do what i said else ima fuck yo kids up the asshole and keel them an sheit, sheeeeiiiiit
YHWH is such a bitch nigger.

>>508477726
Because Christians are schizos who love Jews, hate Jews, want to convert Jews & claim to be Jews all at the same time.

>>508477370
>why would God worship. and pray to himself?
Father. The Son prayed to the Father. The same NT which says this also says that He was God and was with God and came down from heaven and dwelt amongst us. It shows the Son saying that you can pray to Him. It shows this same Son saying that He came down from heaven, not to do His own will but the will of Him Who sent Him. Over and over again there evidence of Jesus, the Son, being God and exercising Gods prerogatives.

but you dont know about any of that. instead you just argue against the idea based on some nonsense pagan comparisons you read about somewhere. honestly anon - are you a muslim, or just a general critic of Christian theology?

>>508477726
The old testament is Aryan, not jewish. if you believe jews when they say they're the Israelites then I got news for you anon. jews lie. like a lot. It's their favourite thing in the whole world

>>508477634
i know what the NT says and believe it fully.

>>508466995 (OP)
Catholic Church is a literal antichrist.

I stopped associating myself with catholic church after pope and priests told me to take mRNA "vax" and nigger "refugees"

>>508475791
The second set of commandments were a little watered down

>>508478014
>The Son prayed to the Father.
why would the son pray to the father if theyre both the same person? honestly, the coping of romans is off the charts

>>508475939
God was only referring to graven images created expressly for the purpose of worship not for the purpose of illustration, and Catholics aren't bowing to the statue, they're bowing to God.

>>508478304
>why would the son pray to the father if theyre both the same person
You've never talked to yourself?
Why do dishonest people dismiss rational explanations as "cope"?

>>508478087
well maybe read the OT too. Jesus said be wise as serpents. king Solomon repeatedly said gain wisdom. so gain wisdom before you make up your mind about anything

>>508470602
>all yap yap yap cope cope about how it's totally not idolatry, honest
Dude, just say you worship multiple gods. Simple as that.

>>508476503
>the Son is God
The son of who?
>the spirit is God
Who's spirit?

>>508478304
>why would the son pray to the father if theyre both the same person?
they are not the same Person

>>508478411
>created expressly for the purpose of worship not for the purpose of illustration
where do you get that? if you just read whats said, its pretty clear - dont put these things up to bow down to them. thats what it says.
>Catholics aren't bowing to the statue,
they are bowing to statues of all kinds of dead people, Mary most of all, but other dead Christians too. They shouldnt do that.

>>508470602
>worship
>worship but not
>worship more than that but not worship

>>508477434
God's not a lawyer kike.

>>508478651
The NT is very clear about Who Jesus is and tells us more about Gods nature.

>>508478752
God exists eternally as three Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

>>508478613
no way did you just say that.
Jesus going up the mountain to pray all night to God is not some internal dialogue shit. he got down on his knees and everything.
I can't do this anymore. I can't have a discussion with someone who refuses to gain wisdom and use logic

>>508478971
Im not the one saying its ok to bow to statues just so long as you dont bow down AND worship the statue. Thats a fake distinction that doesn't exist in the text.

>>508475567
BASED BASED BASED
SHALOM FROM TENNESSEE

>>508478991
of course Jesus wasn't talking to Himself. He was talking to His Father, because the Father and the Son are not the same Person.

>>508478651
Wisdom is only gained by fearing God.

>>508468460
>When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and churches and on the street corners to be seen by men … but when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father who is unseen.
>Do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
>These people draw near to Me with their mouths and honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me. Their worship of Me is but rules taught by men
>False Christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect. But be on guard; I have told you all things beforehand.
>For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ.
>Churches suffered from Jews who killed both the Lord Jesus and the Prophets and also persecuted us. They displease God and have become enemies of the entire human race.
>So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the wilderness,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it

>>508478775
>they are not the same Person
But they are one god, right?
>You've never talked to yourself?
Do you hear voices like imaginary friends? Or do you talk to yourself like the insane? I guess every shizos are like godly now instead of mentally ill.

>>508468460
That's nothing. Catholics literally think that you can put all your sins onto a goat, and them just set the goat free:
>21Then Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, and confess over it all the iniquities of the people of Israel, and all their transgressions, all their sins, putting them on the head of the goat, and sending it away into the wilderness by means of someone designated for the task. 22The goat shall bear on itself all their iniquities to a barren region; and the goat shall be set free in the wilderness.
https://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Leviticus%2016:21%E2%80%9322&version=nrsv

Religion is fucking joke lmao.

>>508479296
please stop

>>508466995 (OP)
Because its a roman institiotion with indoeuropean morality.
>>508468460
Catolics act more like ancient europeans than protestants. Its european culture. No one wants to live like an arab.

>>508478775
>where do you get that?
It doesn't matter.
Where did Mohammed get the Hadith from?
Where did Jews get the Talmud from?
Why are Christians limited only to the Bible?
Why is their religion being mocked and condemned for having cultural depth that extends beyond the pages of a book?

Do plumbers worship pipes?

>>508478977
>God exists eternally as three Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Isaiah 37:16
>“LORD ALMIGHTY, the God of Israel, enthroned between the cherubim, you alone are God over all the kingdoms of the earth. You have made heaven and earth.

It says you alone, not you and your son.

>>508466995 (OP)
This jealous god of the Old testament is the demiurge. Very different than the creator of everything. There's also a higher god of the pleroma who's above the demiurge. Yaldabaoth is a stillbirth abortion who made this fucked up physical realm

>>508479429
>But they are one god, right?
The three Persons fully share the one Being of God. Thats just how the NT reveals that God exists. Person and Being are not the same thing. As in a rock has the nature of a rock (the Being) but no Personhood. See?

>>508479125
You're the one that's appealing to what you claim to be the law though.
>That's a fake distinction.
Over a thousand years of tradition disagrees. If God thought it was a big deal I'm sure he would have spoken up by now, it's not like he ever hesitated to set his followers straight before when they went astray. If he has not, then clearly they have not.

Do you have a rebuttal to this simple logic?

>>508479341
I love God. I only fear his wrath. if you ask God for wisdom he will give it to you if you deserve it. he will give you anything you want. but beware what you ask for. if you ask for something selfish then the satan will be the one brokering the deal

>>508478991
Philippians 2:6-8

6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!

Jesus Christ is the Word of God & God the Son of the Holy Trinity, our Triune God, the Living God.

In the OT, the pre-incarnate Christ is known as the "Angel of the LORD"

In the NT, God the Son humbled himself into the position of a servant, of a human being, so that God could teach us what the perfect human looks like.

To know Jesus Christ is to know God the Father, as Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. NO ONE CAN COME TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH HIM.

>>508479461
at least go read up on what you're trying to debate about anon. makes these interactions more useful.

>>508479629
God created by Himself. No other god or gods or powers assisted Him. Did you know that the NT says Jesus created everything too?

>>508478180
mRNA is bad. But cDNA is too (Russian vaxx)

>>508479886
It just says so clearly that we should not be bowing down to statues, images etc. it doesn't say its ok to bow down to these things IF you have some specific internal attitude towards them. It just says dont do it. I'll go with that and you can go with your tradition if you like.

>If he has not, then clearly they have not.
how would you know? and why does HE have to say something AGAIN when its already been made abundantly clear in the Bible which He has preserved for us through the millennia and made us able to read at home?

And you also ignore the whole thing about lots of people splitting away from the Roman church over the years. Yet you ignore that too, just like you ignore His Word on the matter.

what else does God have to do in order to get your attention?

Religion is all about mental illness. Trying to make sense of any of it is retarded and pointless. All of you are a bunch of retards, and are probably bad people. So fucking stop already. Do not reply to me.

>>508479913
You know who wrote at least 14 of the 27 NT books? Paul. Paul was a literal Pharisees jew who captured Christians and sold them as slaves to the Romans. he never even met Jesus or walked with him. he saw Jesus in a vision or some shit after the resurection then 'converted'
>b-but Paul was one of the good pharasees jews
no such thing
>love thy enemies goyims
>turn the other cheek goyims
>if someone steals your coat then offer them your sweater too
>own nothing and be happy goyims
only a pharasees jew could write this shit for the consumption of the goyims

>>508479926
read the OT

>>508480705
i have. which bit do you have in mind?

>The prayer of the righteous is the most powerful
>But you're supposed to pray for each other
>Saints are without sin
>Ummm... well you can stil ask somebody to pray for you, they compliment each other!
No, they don't, because there'd be literally zero point in not just asking a saint to pray for you and cut out the middle man, because their prayers would be the most powerful. This is why Catholicism is a huge joke, because they put forward their own prayer cheat code and then walk it back with "Erm, ackshually you can still do the other stuff too!" when they outright make it redundant.

>>508466995 (OP)
money.

>>508480633
>>love thy enemies goyims
>>turn the other cheek goyims
>>if someone steals your coat then offer them your sweater too
Jesus said that anon. Paul didn't write that stuff. He did say that Jesus was God quite a few times though, which is good since it completely agrees with other authors of the NT, who accepted Paul as a true apostle.

>>508480585
>Trying to make sense of any of it is retarded and pointless
Please repent and be saved from damnation before it's too late and you wish you had

Oh and I have yet hear a convincing argument from any of these "Catholics worship graven images" trolls, why do text magically does not count as a graven images when it is literally an image that is engraved, and kikes and slimes both routinely bow and scrape before their holy books and scrolls, which they treat as holy objects rather than mere compendiums of text

A Muslim should be no more offended by the sight of a Quran trod under foot into the mud, than he would be if it were a simple dictionary or cookbook. Yet we all know that's not what happens.

>>508480781
all the parts that contradict the NT.
I'm done anon. you're just going around and around in circles. you're not listening to me or addressing my criticisms. your saying the exact same thing over and over and over again. my brain can't handle such lack of diversity. It's like talking to a brick wall, and just as exciting

>>508473273
>Remember that time Saul tried to talk to dead Samuel? What did the BIble say about that?

Nothing? He actually talked to Samuel's ghost.

1 Samuel 28:15

>>508466995 (OP)
Because its Italian Voodoo.

ITT: LARPers argue over rules interpretation.

>>508467918
I got a beast in my pants.

>>508481265
its a fair point about how muslims react to seeing the book burned or somehow disrespected. they do give the impression of idolizing the thing by the way they react.

guess im a little sad if i see people burning Bibles or making fun of some picture of Jesus etc, but i know its not my place to start being violent about it and handing out judgments of death and violence etc. Thats for God to do as and when He sees fit.

>>508481346
>all the parts that contradict the NT.
oh ok anon, great argument. im not going around in circles at all. its just that you dont really have anything to say beyond some vague things you heard somewhere.

>>508481413
and what was the judgement laid upon Him for doing that? take a look. it wasn't good.

>>508481010
The church enterance is the virgin godesses vaginal opening. and the main room of the church is her womb where there is a statue of her son

>>508480585
(((Mental illness)))

>>508480633
Nicodemus also believed in Jesus and went in night to see him

>>508479926
The OT is the truth.

>Still trying to shit on Paul
The disciples literally met Paul and had the ability through the Holy Spirit to vet out false prophets. He's not a liar.

>>508480906
Saints are not sinless nor faultless

>>508482306
People in Heaven are sinless, which is where the saints are when you ask them to pray for you

>>508482202
Of course it is. God was the creator, not some other gods or godesses. Yahwey alone created everything.

>>508482476
The Bible says you shouldn't try talking to the dead anon. Pray to God alone.

>>508482207
>Paul was not one of the Twelve Apostles, and did not know Jesus during his lifetime. According to the Acts, Paul lived as a Pharisee and participated in the persecution of early disciples of Jesus before his conversion.[note 1] On his way to arrest Christians in Damascus, Paul saw a bright light, heard Christ speak, was blinded, and later healed by Ananias.
he never even met Jesus lol

>>508468571

>>508482717
It says right there that he did meet Him. After His resurrection and ascension into heaven, but it clearly says that Christ appeared to Paul and commanded him to do certain things. Paul says that Christ taught him the gospel message etc, and the apostles in Jerusalem confirmed that.

>>508482717
Who cares, Jesus still showed up to him. We never met Jesus either, so I guess we can just give up the whole thing and not bother following his words.

>>508480406
>how would you know
Well let's see, how about the fact that Catholicism is one of the largest religions in the world and has been for a very long time, meanwhile I don't see too many Golden Calf worshippers around , do you?

Clearly the church must be doing something right or God would have struck them down, don't you agree? What if cultural question of whether or not people make statues and the minutiae of how people pray to him aren't actually all that important as long as he is prayed to?

What if the spirit of the law matters more than the letter, and God loves us and saves us even though we are deserving of damnation by the letter of the law?

>>508481413
That was done through a witch. Obvious demonic scam. Necromancy is forbidden in bible, that larping demons as dead people are irrelevant in what they may say

>>508482993
no it doesn't. I specifically state he never met Jesus. he saw a flash of light that blinded him and he heard Jesus voice. but how did he know Jesus voice if he never met him before I wonder.
Paul was a phrarasses jew who saw a new grifting oppertunity appear.
besides I told you to stop. I can't converse with retards for more than a few minutes at a time. I need a rest

>>508483377
>but how did he know Jesus voice if he never met him before I wonder.
This is kind of a Protestant's way of thinking, where they have to run to scripture to confirm visions and the like. It's God, he has the power to make himself known 100 percent and that's the whole purpose of having the Holy Spirit in us to verify that truth. If Jesus decided to talk to you right now, you'd know 100 percent.

>>508483087
how does he know it was him? all he heard was a voice and he'd never met him before.
is it possible he was lying? Is it possible he was a grifting phrarasses kike con man who saw an oppertunity to fleece the gullible christians? Or is that something a synagogue of satan pharasees jew would never ever do?

>>508481816
When is Saul being condemned specifically for talking to Samuel's ghost? Samuel was already under judgement for disobeying God, as Samuel's ghost explains.

My only reason for bringing this up is because it is a poor example of the Lord condemning necromancy because it is not specifically condemned in Samuel. There are 15 other examples that would work better.

>>508483089
>Clearly the church must be doing something right or God would have struck them down, don't you agree?
no, not really. islam must be doing something right, same with all the other false religions, if thats how it works.
>What if cultural question of whether or not people make statues and the minutiae of how people pray to him aren't actually all that important as long as he is prayed to?
God seems to really not like idols being bowed down to. Thats why He makes a big deal out of it i suppose.

>What if the spirit of the law matters more than the letter, and God loves us and saves us even though we are deserving of damnation by the letter of the law?
i agree that we all deserve that anon, for sure. Its part of being thankful to Him for that great mercy that i dont want to offend Him by bowing down to statues when He makes a point of saying how much it annoys Him.

>>508483377
>I specifically state he never met Jesus.
i dont care what you state anon. If Christ choose to meet with Paul, strike him blind, and tell him that hes a chosen vessel for him etc, than im fine with that. it consider that a meeting between Paul and Jesus, and the other apostles accepted it too.

>>508483619
>they have to run to scripture to confirm visions and the like.
The Bible does tells us to carefully examine spiritual things anon. we do that because its possible to be deceived and we trust in His Word over our own wisdom.

>>508483887
>When is Saul being condemned specifically for talking to Samuel's ghost?
1 Chronicles 10:13-14. like i said, take a look.

>>508483089
Why do you want to bow to statues so badly? Why not just obey God?

>>508484179
I dont know how you can know Christ and His salvation and even feel the need to bow to any statues, especially of other dead Christians.

>>508483619
>If Jesus decided to talk to you right now, you'd know 100 percent.
dude, Jesus own disciples had to ask what the fuck he was talking about all the time cos his parables were so cryptic and esoteric.
if Jesus talked to me right now it'd be a pile of new age bullshit like it was in the NT and I'd think it was probably Buddha or some shit

>>508483672
>Is it possible he was lying?
No, because like I said, the disciples met with him and they had the ability to sus out liars.
Acts 5:3–4:
>But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? ... You have not lied to man but to God.”
>>508484178
I'm not saying to disregard scripture in that manner, I'm just saying that God would have the power to make sure you knew it was him.

>>508474248
Well that American brought up examples in the bible where people don't just do the simple option.
It's fine if the simplicity of God with a very Muslim idea of graven images, works for you.

But to ask for everyone to get as simple as you, is very egotistical. What matters in all of this, is if these things being people closer to God or further away from him. Looking at this, the Americans has backed the claims of the church with biblical sources. Sounds good enough of a justification for me. You lost!

>>508484517
>I'm just saying that God would have the power to make sure you knew it was him.
sure, but he's made it clear that we are to test the spirits by Scripture. That is part of His power by which He makes Himself known.

>>508484517
>the disciples met with him and they had the ability to sus out liars
like they sussed out judas? jesus even warned them that one of them was gonna cross him and they still didnt suss it

>>508466995 (OP)
they didn't, but okay jew.

>>508484490
John 16:12–13:
>“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak”
>>508484735
Jesus flat out stated that there was a betrayer among them, they didn't need to sus out anything. Jesus intended to be betrayed to have his moment on the cross, it's not difficult.

>>508484561
If God says dont bow down to graven images and statues then im good with no doing that. If other people want to ignore that and have their justifications for doing so then its really up to them and their conscience obviously. That doesn't mean i can't talk about it and point people to what God said about it.

>>508484735
>like they sussed out judas?
that was prior to the general pouring out of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. the example of Annais and Saphira was after Pentecost, and does indicate that discerning lies was part of the gifts given to the disciples

>>508484900
>Jesus intended to be betrayed to have his moment on the cross,
Sure, He knew it had to happen and it was the will of God. Acts 4 tells us this. God always intended Christ to die for our sins on the Cross and rise from the dead on the 3rd day.

>>508484900
If you believe the God of the OT and Jesus are the same thing then we both worship the same God. It's just I worship God the god and you worship the half human demigod Jesus.
So from your perspective I worship your god. but from my perspective you worship a different god

>>508485490
so you're a muslim? a jew..what?

>>508485490
Huh? They're both the same God, they never changed.

>>508484921
I will just link to the post about God dictating the construction angelic images in the ark of the covenant

You saw this, you are in this theard. , but new poster new argument eh? He laid out the rebuttal a>>508484921
nd you didn't care. In this very theard >>508468716
your post you sent to me has already be responded


These people, the Italian and the American used sources. They quoted the bible they also create coherent pictures of the bible's desire to worship.


You seem like a bible qouter who's ideas don't even stand against the book it comes from.

You sound alot like the Quran guys who need to say whatever is later in the quarn supercedes earlier in it. Why? Because quarnic beliefs are incoherent... Just like yours.. no one disagrees worshipping images moves you away from God. But these people used the bible to show that it's clearly more real, coherent, and related to real life worship. then the singular verse you want to focus on would suggest

>>508479724
To further the point, the Trinity is revealed in the OT....Father, Son (coming child), and Spirit (Genesis 1:2).

>>508485213
God abhors child sacrifice. why would he sacrifice his son?
also it's already been establish everyone is responsible for their own sin. there is no get out of jail Jesus card

>>508485746
>God dictating the construction angelic images in the ark of the covenant
The Bible makes it clear that the Ark was the place of meeting with God. It says that God would appear to them between the churubim. Thats very different from bowing down to a statue of Mary.

>>508485656
I'm a Celto Saxon israelite. except I'm lost and scattered until the end times. as such I follow the commandments and try to follow all the laws of Leviticus. but until the end times we have no priests so there's only so much we can do until the regathering of the exiles.
The closest thing I could find today that use the OT as their only scripture (meaning no talmud, no haddiths, no NT) is karaism. there's only a few organized karaites around the world and the Nazis apparently classed them as non jews.
I'm not in any organized grouping

>>508468571
pagan seething lmao

>>508476144
>>508479578
Just the homos

>>508486065
Philippians 2:5-8
>Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
So there, your buddy Paul is telling you what's what. The Trinity.

Why do Protestants hate the mother of God? Why do Protestants say vile things against Mary? I'm not sure they are protestants, probably Jews since they hate all things Christ.

>>508486015
i think its definitely there in a subtle way, such that once we have the further revelation of the NT we can see that God was always like that the whole time.
There were even strains of jewish thought that were getting close to seeing a plurality within the one God.

>>508486065
What purpose would it serve to do that to merely human relatives? The point is that Christ willingly sacrificed Himself (and then rose again from the dead of course) for our sins, and what better love is there than a man should die for his friends?

>>508486598
yeah ok. you still need Christ because theres no salvation outside of Him. No one comes to the Father but by Him. He is the fulfillment of the sacrifice that you can't do anymore because God took the temple away.

>>508487097
Nobody hates Mary, they hate how she's been used for idolatrous ends.

>>508486598
What role jews played in the rise of British empire?

>>508487097
i dont find that they do but i guess some might because of bad teaching on the subject. nobody reading the Gospels can think its ok to say anything nasty about her.

from my perspective its the romans who insult her, by saying all kinds of things about her that aren't true.

>>508487442
Shut up, Mary is not an Idol!

>>508473477
In reference to graven images the context specifically means the foreign gods that the Hebrews brought out of Egypt with them. Later in Exodus God commands that the ark of the covenant be engraved with images of angels and properly prostrate when approaching the sanctuary

>>508487674
...just that Cathys kneel before a statue of her FOR FUCKS SAKE

>>508466995 (OP)
Well,
we can now do that.

>>508487701
>properly prostrate when approaching the sanctuary
Because God is right THERE. over and over again the OT says that God is right there between the two cherumbim.

Leviticus 16:2
And the LORD said to Moses: “Tell your brother Aaron not to enter freely into the Most Holy Place behind the veil in front of the mercy seat on the ark, or else he will die, because I appear in the cloud above the mercy seat.


exodus 25
22And I will meet with you there above the mercy seat, between the two cherubim that are over the ark of the Testimony; I will speak with you about all that I command you regarding the Israelites.

there are lots of such passages. You really dont think its a different thing to prostrate before the place where God has told you His Presence resides, and bowing down to random statues of Mary and other dead Christians?

It was God presence they were bowing down before.

>>508487400
>you still need Christ because theres no salvation
no thanks. God said he is the only way (picrel)

>>508468709
I just found out two of the most liberal colleges are catholic. Soooo I’m wondering if bashing on Catholics = conservatives.

>>508488340
Yeah, they're the same God. If you're worshiping the God from the OT, then you're already worshiping Jesus Christ. It's easy to confuse the two as two separate entities, because God in the OT really had to crack the whip on the people's asses.

>>508466995 (OP)
Protestants are literally satanic golems

Reminder:
>you worship mary
Nope.
>you worship idols
Nope.
>God said no images though
It refers to not having images which you think are living things or gods. Art is just art.
>relics though
They are also not alive.
>your church takes all your money
Nope.
>half your money
Nope
>10% in tithing
Nope
>you banned the Bible
Nope
>you banned the Bible in English
Never happened.
>you ...put sins in a goat?
...What? No.
>your priest has fancy clothes!
Should he wear cut off jeans and a band t-shirt?
>your church burned people
Nope. The various kingdoms did, punishments like that were part of their law.
>you literally burned witches in Salem
That was the protestants.
>protestants never hurted anybody!
Protestants spilled blood in every nation they owned and forced their countrymen to submit to whatever denomination was in power.
>the crusades though!
Were a series of medieval wars against invading powers...
>the inquisition!
investigations into whether recent catholic converts were secretly retaining their prior religion in order to subvert catholic spain.
>they were brutal!
Most investigations ended with the people pledging to cease and repent of any wrongdoing.
>oh the poor gnostic cathars!
A cult that thought the world was evil, created a slave class, and told them not to breed.
>templars though! you purged them! you chased them to the ends of the Earth and they hid away in secret with their magic and secrets and and and-
They were moved over to the Knights Hospitaller, the other major Catholic order. None of them ran off into your fairy tales.
>you have literal pagan traditions!
Christianized. Symbolic of how Christ conquered all the pagans and yet had sympathy for their cultures by purifying their traditions and taking them as our own.
>PROTESTANTS WOULD NEVER DO ANY OF THAT!
you did for 1500 years and never had any issue with it, then you were lead you astray so that your kings could go to war against other Christian nations.
>protestants lied to me about you?
Yep

>>508488290
This is isn't something I'm disputing, but the point stands that early Christians and Hebrews were not iconoclasts and that imagery in reverence to God and his kingdom are fine

Also, I should point out something interesting: If you read the Old Testament, you're going to see stories of an angel appearing to people and they fall face forward in worship, but angels do not accept worship. Who could it be? Jesus Christ himself. See: Balaam and Joseph

>>508488340
God is the only way

>>508488808
>imagery in reverence to God and his kingdom are fine
sure. im not against such things. just the bowing down to them...or really any sort of superstitious regards for them.

>>508486518
Wait, so it's fine for heavenly images to be in the ark, because you meet God there? Then what actually is your problem?

You do know churches are God's dwelling right?

Ephesians 2: 20-22
>built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

So actually if these kinds of images are fine if it's where God dwells, and we are a body together create a house for us to be in, which becomes his.... Then what is your problem? You say it yourself. It's fine for angelic images to be where God is.. and we know churches are where God is

>>508488610
The problem for you is that Jesus said the only way to God is through him. what if Jesus is stealing God's prayers? both Jesus and Lucifer are the bright and morning star. what if the Romans and jews have tricked you into worshipping Lucifer or some other god instead of the one true God?

>>508488340
That’s Jesus speaking in OT. OT god isn’t Jesus

>>508488340
OT Lord is Jesus*

>>508489086
Im saying that the OT makes it explicitly clear that the people were to prostrate before the location of Gods presence. He told them to do that and killed people if they didn't. God has said no such thing about bowing down to churches or statues representing Mary or whatever else you're trying to stretch the argument to.

if you're happy bowing down to churches etc then thats on you.

>>508489192
Isaiah 7:14:
>“Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
Immanuel means "God with us"

Matthew 1:22-23:
>All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet:
“Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and they shall call his name Immanuel”
(which means, God with us).

>>508489036
A better perspective to have is viewing the saints, angels, and the blessed virgin as being the favored servants of the kingdom as God's courtiers. The statues themselves are simply objects but are there to remind us that the kingdom of heaven is present with us within the Church and help to act as a focus on various aspects of the divine.

>>508489360
>ummm.it's different OKAY
So let me get this straight, jews in the old convent, could bow before images of things which was not God, but were of heavenly things. That's fine, because he told them to it, and it's because it's his dwelling place.
Then Jesus comes, doesn't abolish the laws and rules, but fulfils it. Leading gentiles to become like Jews... Yet You think it's no longer pious, and actually SINFUL when these "new jews" bow Infront of images of things which was not God, but are of heavenly things, in places we know where God percids?

You sound like a fucking retard dude. Just read what you are writing to see how fucking stupid you sound.
Let make this simple.
Hebrews 13:8
>Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

>>508489721
The original scripture didn't say 'virgin'.
they changed it to virgin in the English translation in the 1600s in anticipation of jesus' arrival

>>508468571
Literal pagan seething about muh "goddess Mary" I guess the whole Bible lied when it said everyone sins because Mary didn't right?

>>508490033
if thats all it was there'd be a lot less debate on the issue probably. But i do also recognize the idolatrous inclinations of the human heart and generally consider it better practice to not have that much stuff around in churches, especially the statues. i think we're just too likely to start attributing them with powers etc. ive seen this a lot at various Marian Apparition sites.

All "countries" or "governments" are false gods. Our parents were tricked into selling us into slavery with a graven image. (Birth certificate.) And every piece of ID is a graven image. We end up breaking the first 2 Commandments. The solution is revocation of citizenship. These video series will get you started. God bless and God speed anons! Ecce Agnus Dei, qui tollit peccatum mundi!


https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnilnjUumFqC6FhLuAfhyG_GSzGpmsjbP

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnilnjUumFqCawM8ff3BnjnbYGyVuSxek

>>508490082
>in places we know where God percids?
you have evidence that Gods particular presence, as in the cloud of His Glory, resides in statues of Mary (and every church building, as you seem to be arguing)?

You are saying we are commanded, as the jews were in the presence of the Ark of the Covenant, to prostrate ourselves before statues of Mary etc on pain of death?

This is getting more and more bizarre.

>>508466995 (OP)
That image is a direct successor to one of the goddess worshiped by Ancient Romans. Luna, which, along with Diana, comes from the ancient Moon goddess Inanna and the Heavenly Goddess, sometime depicted with a crescent moon, Ishtar. They just changed the name after the Council of Nicaea, combined them, and her clothes were marginally altered until the Middle Ages.

Luna stands on the crescent moon and was nicknamed The Queen of Heaven. Catholics even still call Mary and that name, despite the Bible itself condemning worship of the Queen of Heaven, the exact same one the Romans and almost all the other pagans worshiped at the time. Even Diana and Selene come from corruptions of Inanna and Ishtar . Same pagan goddess of the moon and heaven. Catholics are a joke, and will unironically oust or even try to kill you for exposing this to them. I used to do it in the past, and a lot of them, after raging, simply say "I don't care if it's wrong".

>>508490486
>if thats all it was
That's all it is. The churches that are empty of holy things are eventually filled with other things like rainbow flags, blm posters, or pastor Tim's rock band and their stage equipment.

>>508466995 (OP)
>Check copy of Douay Rheims Bible, the premier English translation used by the church, and see the second commandment right there were we left it
What are you on about schizoid?

>>508490175
Alright, I cheated and used ChatGPT. This is what it has to say:
Matthew quotes Isaiah 7:14 and says it was fulfilled in Jesus’ virgin birth:

“Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel…” — Matthew 1:23

Matthew is quoting from the Septuagint (LXX) — a Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures completed around 200–250 BC.

In the Septuagint, the Hebrew ʿalmah is translated as:

παρθένος (parthenos)
— which does mean “virgin” in Greek, and fairly unambiguously.

So:

Hebrew Isaiah 7:14 = young woman

Greek LXX Isaiah 7:14 = virgin

Matthew uses the Greek version, so he says virgin.

>>508490809
This isn't the 1960s. You know about Eucharistic miracles. And yes, Jesus Christ his body and blood is literally in these places.
But you are also being stupid. You want to say Mary, I am speaking of all saints.,
Look at how churches are constructed, Roman and orthodox

https://imgs.search.brave.com/-JR2VWIgM4YpLCxdtTl6VxWBlzu9bnr27QmrIDLxvvo/rs:fit:860:0:0:0/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9tZWRp/YS5pc3RvY2twaG90/by5jb20vaWQvNDU4/MzY0ODM5L3Bob3Rv/L3N1bmRheS1tYXNz/LWluLW9ydGhvZG94/LWNodXJjaC10cmVi/aW5qZS1ib3NuaWEt/YW5kLWhlcmNlZ292/aW5hLmpwZz9zPTYx/Mng2MTImdz0wJms9/MjAmYz1WSmdoRHgy/X2pKU1FhVFM0eHR3/M1Q5N1lrNmk4N0J3/QWVkZXJiejFOSy00/PQ

Put up that image.
Look, two images placed apart of beings in Haven, and in the middle, the altar where they will present the literal Body of Christ. God. it's the same man. WOAH! God appearing between the images of heavenly beings???

>>508466995 (OP)
catholics are half pagans not like you protestants who are basically jews

>>508491046
>Luna stands on the crescent moon
as does mary

>>508466995 (OP)
Because Catholics are based polytheists

>>508470602
Intercession is against the core founding beliefs of Christianity.

>>508468460
Go die for Israel retard

>>508491356
What is this crescent moon bullshit? Why do I keep seeing it pop up?

>>508491200
>That's all it is.
its not though. its the bowing down to them too. i dont say it happens in every place but ive seen enough of it to know thats its a fairly common practice for a lot of people.

>>508491295
>You want to say Mary, I am speaking of all saints.,
yes i want to say that because its the focus of the issue for me. ive seen it a lot in certain places and consider it to be a bad thing. I dont believe that the consecrated host is the literal body of Christ either, so im not going to genuflect to it.

>>508466995 (OP)
Who cares? The bible is full of nonsense like talking snakes, talkinh donkeys, Eve being made from a rib, walking on water, flying chariots, water to wine, stick to snakes, etc., but you're upset because the Catholic church has some statues.

>>508491805
Never mind, it's idolatry shit. See, this is the problem with how they use the Virgin Mary. It's Satanic.

>>508491844
Okay you are a retard who doesn't even believe Jesus when he literally says it's his body and blood. Fuck you for wasting mine time lmao.

>>508490486
Hence the importance of good catechisis, attributing super natural powers to objects is hectical but we recognize that the divine may choose to act through his creations if it suits him

>>508466995 (OP)
why do protestants worship Israelis directly?

>>508491971
>Miracles and other acts of God
>Bowing down to statues
not really in the same category

>>508466995 (OP)
The catholic church reformed in a lot of areas after Martin Luther BTFO them but for some reason Catholics just cannot stop worshiping idols. It has always weirded me out as a protestant.

>>508491274
The mesoretic text and not the Septuagint were used in the translation of the English bibles
>The Masoretic Text is the basis for most Protestant translations of the Old Testament such as the King James Version, English Standard Version,[8] New American Standard Bible,[9] and New International Version.[10] After 1943, it has also been used for some Catholic Bibles, such as the New American Bible and the New Jerusalem Bible.[citation needed] Some Christian denominations instead prefer translations of the Septuagint as it matches quotations in the New Testament.[11]

>>508491805
Mary is the pagan goddess. she's a moon goddess. she's ishtar. she's Diana. she's Isis. she has many other names

>>508466995 (OP)
There are no categorical numbers between each commandment, people commonly call them the 10 Commandments. That said, Christians agreed for nearly 2000 years what the 10 Commandments were until the Calvinists split the first commandment and reinterpreted it.
Calvinists relied more on Exodus' English phrasing rather than Deuteronomy chapter 5's language, this led them to change the 10 Commandments by splitting the first commandment into two. But again, this detracts even from the way Luther and other protestants saw the 10 Commandments. Not to mention the nearly 2000 years of church history at the time they decided to reinterpret the first commandment.

Deuteronomy 5 reads as follows:
6‘I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
7‘You shall have no other gods before Me.
8‘You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 9you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,10but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

The fist "shall" informs and frames the following versus. I agree with the interpretations of the Church Fathers. Given the context I really don't think it's saying you can't carve any image ever. It's saying not to create idols because it's an expansion of detail into the "You shall have no other gods before Me" commandment, explaining specifics.

>>508468460
>nooooo you cannot embody your religion!!!! You need to let other men control you
No

>>508492040
i believe He meant that spiritually and that we do it in remembrance of Him, not a recapitulation of the sacrifice. it is not a real sacrifice because His sacrifice was a one time thing that achieved real effects..not a continuing sacrifice for which He is still suffering. Christ is not on the cross anymore.

>>508492120
Superstitious nonsense. Don't forget the living dead walking around in Jerusalem.

>casts animate dead

>>508466995 (OP)
jewish thread. Not based.

>>508492045
>Hence the importance of good catechisis,
it does. it might make people realize that bowing down and kneeling before bog statues of Mary isn't a good thing.

>>508492338
>I really don't think it's saying you can't carve any image ever.
no, nor do i.

>>508492128
You are a jew

>>508481639
>but i know its not my place to start being violent about it and handing out judgments of death and violence etc. Thats for God to do as and when He sees fit.

Funny. You seem to have no problem putting yourself in God's position and judging your Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ as heretics and idol worshipers.

Jesus expressly said others would be sent in the future to reveal more of the truth to the apostles. John 16:13 prevents solar scripture from existing at all. For no Protestant would accept the spirit of truth because it wasnt in the bible.

I pray for you leaf brother in Christ.

>>508492147
more accurately, the mesoretic was used for the OT and the Septuagint was used for the NT
the quote we were discussing was from Isaiah which is OT

>>508492147
Yeah, but I'm talking about at the time that Matthew sourced itself. So, final analysis, you're probably right that we can't "definitively" say that it meant virgin, but virgin still isn't precluded in saying "young woman". Matthew wasn't lying, it's just a different source used. Still, there are other verses you can look at as being in relation to Jesus's coming, like:
Zechariah 9:9:
>“Behold, your king is coming to you; righteous and having salvation is he, humble and mounted on a donkey”
Which is how Jesus made his entry into Jerusalem

>>508492367
sounds fine to me. Lazarus walked around for years and Jesus appeared to many.

>>508466995 (OP)
catholics are as close to pagan as you can be without being one. saints are basically demigods and fulfill the role the polytheistic gods had

>>508492367
>Doesn't know what the word resurrection means
>all those label on a meme
Sad

>>508466995 (OP)
The Old Testament also says you can kill your enemies, which Christcucks disagree on

>>508492629
I'm not arguing that Jesus wasn't the messiah. (personally I don't think he was). but that's a whole nother topic. we were talking about Jesus being God. and I don't think he was. in fact there's no way I can be convinced he was since I have so much evidence backing up the contrary

>>508492641
sounds like necromancy to me
Jesus was a praticioner of black magic and the dark arts.
Jesus = alchemist (water into wine), eat my body and drink my blood (cannablism), sorcery/spell casting/witchcraft (walking on water/loaves and fishes/etc), karmic eastern cuckery (turn other cheek), necromancy (raise Lazarus from the dead), human sacrifice (on the cross), blasphemer (i am god), light bringer morning star (Lucifer much?), claims to be the only saviour and that redemption comes only through himself (God in OT says he alone is only saviour) completely scraps the commandments (Sabbath breaking), judgements and ordinances (new covenant).
Jesus was literally his own antichrist

>>508492641
>Lazarus walked around for years because mythology book sed so

Okay, faggot.

Two more weeks and Jesus returns, trus da plen.

>>508492616
>no problem putting yourself in God's position
if He says dont bow down to images/statues then its hardly me assuming Gods position of judgment to mention the fact anon. you might as well say the same thing to anyone mentioning the fact that homosexuality is condemned in the Bible too.
im also not saying a single thing about how God should judge anyone, nor recommending violence and death for them. please try to be reasonable.

>Jesus expressly said others would be sent in the future to reveal more of the truth to the apostles.
where? He mentions that the Spirit would come and lead them into truth. There were also some prophets around for a bit in the early stages of Acts, but they seem to fade out after not too long.
>For no Protestant would accept the spirit of truth because it wasnt in the bible.
we accept that God used the Spirit of truth to inscripturate that truth. IF any other such special revelation was given, and i dont think it was or is anymore, it will always be supported by the Bible, which contains everything we need for teaching, reproval, guidance etc, as it says of itself.

>>508493092
He's God and used the power of God to raise people from the dead. If you knew your OT you'd be quite aware that several people were raised from the dead via Prophets of God

>>508493337
>several people were raised from the dead via Prophets of God
name one
>inb4 crickets

>>508491844
We bow to God. If someone bows their head at the mention of Jesus but there happens to be another person standing in front of them are they bowing to the person or Jesus? If Pastor Tim asks us to bow our heads at protestant church should he get off the altar quick so our bow energy doesn't hit him by mistake? Granted, if you find someone bowing in front of a statue of Mary in prayer and ask the person who they are bowing to there might be instances where they say "Our lady...?" and yes, in this instance they would be technically wrong if they actually think its right to bow to anyone but God, it happens, and a Catholic priest should correct them if they overheard the interaction.
However, men bow before Kings when they receive honors, men take a knee to propose to their wives, its all relative and just the action itself is not either prayer or blasphemy in every circumstance. You will probably never see someone face on the ground in front of Mary saying "I worship you!" that would be absurd and 99% of Catholics feel the same way. However, showing reverence to Mary or any saint is not wrong, they are the various heroes of our faith throughout time, and if they happen to bow their head while doing its not your business to take out a ruler and decide when its too much. I can promise you that if you look into Catholic doctrine on the matter you would find that it is not what you think it is or what you have been told it is.

>>508466995 (OP)
The Roman Catholic Church was created by the Roman Government.

>>508493593
Two examples in 1st and 2nd Kings anon. The widow of Zarephath’s son, and the Shunammite woman’s son. another guy came back to life when his body was buried on top of Elishas body.

>>508492987
Honestly, I think you should consider what I posted earlier:
>>508488828
If you look at the story of Balaam, he's riding a "donkey" that speaks, the same way Jesus rode a donkey into Jerusalem. He strikes it 3 times, which can be looked at Jesus being doubted 3 times by Peter.
Numbers 22:31:
>“Then the Lord opened Balaam’s eyes, and he saw the Angel of the LORD standing… and he bowed down and fell on his face.”
So, Balaam goes down to worship, but angels refuse worship, and say to worship God, not them. This angel doesn't, however. He also appears with a sword in hand, just like Jesus said he would "come with a sword". Joshua actually experiences the same thing with an angel with a sword and he falls down in a worship too. I'm sure there's other encounters like this in the OT, but I can't recall.

>>508493127
He didn't say don't bow. He didn't say don't bow to images. He said don't bow to images you worship as God. You cut all the context out to follow the letter of the law instead of the spirit of the law. Something Jesus warned the pharisee they were guilty of.

You would have to know a man's heart to know if he's an idol worshipper and you cannot. Only God can know our hearts. Again you put yourself in God's place by judging your brothers and sisters.

Where? I gave you citation:
>When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

You acknowledge here that you would reject God's spirit of truth if there wasn't a basis for it in scripture despite Jesus telling us there was more to come and be revealed.

If you actually practiced solar scripture you'd be focused on that plank in your own eye instead of mine. I'll pray your heart softens and your rigidity relaxes to hear Jesus's message.

>>508493672
>and a Catholic priest should correct them if they overheard the interaction.
ok, then we agree. But you go to a marian apparition site and see if the priests go around teaching the thousands that its wrong.

Christians, jews and muslims are all guilty of idolatory.
Christians worship carpenters and statues of his mother.
jews bow and pray to a literal fucking wall.
and muslims face and pray to a black box 5 times a day
The only way is to dump all the non canon additions to the OT (the NT, talmud, haddiths) and follow Gods laws according to moses. or dont. i dont care. you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink.

>>508493930
I stand corrected

>>508494041
>He didn't say don't bow. He didn't say don't bow to images.
yes, He did. just go read it. He said dont bow to them nor serve them. He said dont do either.
>Again you put yourself in God's place by judging your brothers and sisters.
where have i done that? ive said that we shouldnt do what Gos said we shouldnt do. ive not called anyone an idolater nor said anything about punishments. not a thing.
>
You acknowledge here that you would reject God's spirit of truth if there wasn't a basis for it in scripture despite Jesus telling us there was more to come and be revealed.
yes, because the scripture, which is what the Spirit came to reveal to us, says im supposed to test things against Scripture. If its not in there then im under no obligation to accept it and probably shouldn't.

opening yourself up to 'new revelations' is how all the bad traditions get accepted and also how new cults get going.

the NT says it contains everything we need for salvation and guidance so why do i go looking for more?

>>508466995 (OP)
Papist and Orthopagan logic comes from the fact that people knelt down and worshipped Jesus, who was God in the Flesh. So because people did this to Jesus, they believe it's ok to make a statue of some other person believed to be in heaven and bow down to it so long as you call it an "icon" instead of an "idol." No I'm not kidding. This is the actual logic they use to flaunt the Second Commandment. Catholics have their own talmud called the catechism AKA "sacred tradition" that they use to lawyer all sorts of weird pagan practices into Christianity. This is because after Emperor Constantine forced everyone in the Roman Empire to convert to Christianity, they had to take all the pagan religious rites and copypaste biblical names over everything to get the plebs to go along with it. This is how you end up with the Marian cult and all their fanfic lore about the Virgin Mary remaining a virgin forever after Jesus was born (contradicting Matthew 1:25, Matthew 13:55-56, Mark 6:3, and Acts 1:14), how she was born sinless (contradicting Romans 3:23, Romans 5:12, Romans 5:19, and 1 Corinthians 15:22), and how the she never died but was "assumed" into heaven (yes Catholics actually believe this because the pope declared it to be true in the year 1950 AD).

>>508493931
The 3 angels Abraham meets he bows before them and they don't say 'get the fuck up you silly cunt'. they let him wash their feet

>>508466995 (OP)
>images
graven images arent images. a graven image is the god itself, a picture is just a visual representation of it.

>>508494062
To put it simply, would you stop a Japanese Christian from bowing to others in his country? No probably not. You understand it is merely a sign of respect in his culture ...as it is in Catholic culture. Again, if some misunderstands, it is their own mistake, as not everyone is taught properly, but doctrine itself in no way defends worship of anyone but God, which is who we bow to in prayer. If at that Marian shrine you were to up to someone and say "Who are you bowing to?" and they said "God" it would be fine, right? You can't really police bowing, because its not for to know where their heart is at. I understand why it makes you uncomfortable and why you think: "I don't want to take any chances" or something, but if you read doctrine you would dispel those feelings, they are just protestant weariness from centuries of lies and anti-Catholic propaganda.

The old testament covenant is irrelevant you fucking midwit. Have you not read the entire Bible? What are you some kind of Jew?

Because for a long time most Christians couldnt read or understand latin and images were more effective to tell the stories, give an emotional impuls and keep the attention of the audience.

>>508494955
Yeah, but it's saying "the Lord is there" and he's explicitly addressing the Lord himself, not that he's bowing down to each angel. He's bowing to the lord himself. Just because other angels were tagging along, doesn't mean that Abraham was worshiping them too.

>>508494955
Theophanie anon. There was something very special about that encounter. look into it.

>>508495085
if you think its solid roman doctrine to kneel before statues of Mary, sometimes laying face down even, then ok, fine. some people think its wrong and taught againt, others say nah its ok carry on. comparing this kind of thing to a respect culture like in Japan is not reasonable but theres also the point that perhaps something in Japanese culture ARE signs of idolatry and might need to be changed if the person became a Christian. That happens sometimes.

juts because something is 'cultural' doesn't excuse it from Scriptural examination .

>>508495108
bowing down to and worshiping idols must be just fine then.

>>508469443
Why have a device then?
Little silly when the device is hust an object and prayer does not require them.

>>508495108
The old testament covenant is an everlasting covenant between Aryan Israel and God. The pharasees jew Paul doesn,t have the authority to write a new testament and new covenant. remember Jesus didnt write the NT. Paul did.

>>508470602
Necessarily, Christ is the ultimate Intercessor.
Better to just pray to Him?

>>508495881
No, we need to hand off our prayers like a football to Mary, so she can spiral it down the field to God who'll catch it.

>>508495817
Paul wrote some of it. some other jews wrote the rest of it.

>>508466995 (OP)
why do you care? you'll never get your foreskin back, or your anal normal function

>>508496012
(Sarcasm by the way)
>>508495817
Paul didn't write the entirety of the NT

>>508466995 (OP)
They have done no such thing. This is typical prottie cope.
>Protties listen to brother Dan who hears the lord on the toilet but ignores Jesus, the Apostles, and the church fathers. >Small prottie brains will swear by the terrible translations of a 16th century Scot faggot as the exact word of God.
>Protties seethe at the true communion in Christ Catholic and Orthodox creating beauty and order in his house while they attend church in places like this ooking like monkeys and giving thier money to false prophets on tv

>>508496094
he's credited with writing 14 of the 27 books. but the similarity in the writing style suggests the same person wrote the whole book. excluding revelation of course

>>508496307
>he's credited with writing 14 of the 27 books
pretty awesome for a pharasees jew who sold christians as slaves and never even met let alone walked with jesus

>>508496307
>but the similarity in the writing style suggests the same person wrote the whole book
No it doesn't, I don't know what kind of head canon this is. Paul has a distinct writing style that can come off as abrasive, the others not credited to him are like night and day.

>>508494555
You miss the point again friend.
God entrusted the spirit of truth to

A) The Church he expressly built in Peter

Or

B) Martin Luther who wanted to marry a nun.

There is no scriptural basis for Protestantism. There is for Catholicism. If you followed your own principles you'd end up at the same conclusion. However I don't judge you a cult as you so label Catholics. If Jesus is your savior then I call you a brother in Christ. Best of luck and God bless.

>>508496307
>the similarity in the writing style suggests the same person wrote the whole book
thats an entirely unsupported claim which ive never seen even the most rabid atheist or muslim etc etc make even once over the years.

you have some good evidence to back it up i suppose?

>>508466995 (OP)
We didn't?

>>508496542
The Scripture, which is what the Spirit gave to us, allows us to test if the teachings and practices of any church are sounds and right. If they are not, then we are under no obligation to believe them or do them. thats all it is.

>>508494853
>they believe it's ok to make a statue of some other person believed to be in heaven and bow down to it so long as you call it an "icon" instead of an "idol."
Incorrect
>catechism and sacred tradition
The Catechism is a book of rules to explain the nature of the faith so there is no misunderstanding. If a protestant chooses to conduct a mass however he feels is it not a use of his own idea of tradition? Catechism standardizes our tradition so no blasphemy can arise through personal interpretation. The opposite of what you claim
>Emperor Constantine forced everyone in the Roman Empire to convert to Christianity
Never happened. He lifted the ban on Christianity though.
>>508495688
>if you think its solid roman doctrine to kneel before statues of Mary, sometimes laying face down even, then ok, fine
I told you it wasn't. If you read what I said again you will see that.
>comparing this kind of thing to a respect culture like in Japan is not reasonable
It is the exact same thing. A sign of respect for another person. If we bow our heads in respect for those who are in Heaven does not mean we worship them, does not mean we are face down for them either.
>perhaps something in Japanese culture ARE signs of idolatry and might need to be changed if the person became a Christian. That happens sometimes.
I would agree with you for things like performing rituals at their shinto shrines probably, not for bowing as a social practice. Examine how you are ok with protestant Christian culture telling others to be less reverent, but not ok with Catholic culture telling others to be more reverent. Again, read Catholic doctrine for yourself and you will see that there is nothing for any good Christian to fear and that no controversy exists on the matter. If i told you "Bow before Mary and the saints and worship them!" it would be absurd, no Catholic would say this or think this and a Catholic priest would chase me out of the church for suggesting it.

>>508492580
Have you been to a protestant church man? They are usually quite modest (except super churches, which are often just as weird/creepy) and don't have big idols.
Am I just supposed to look at Catholics doing this shit and be like, "ah yup, never seen this before but that's normal and I'll instantly accept it!" And you think it's impossible that a protestant wouldn't have this reaction?

>>508496505
>>508496577
It's a fact that Jesus didnt write a single word of the NT. and it's a fact that Paul the pharasees jew who never even met Jesus wrote over half the NT books.
if you're happy with this arrangement then have at it. but I'm not

>>508497197
I don't know what problem you're having here, because God didn't write the OT himself either, so....

>>508496542
>there is no scriptural basis for following the scriptures
Uhhh
>there is for explicitly doing the opposite of the scriptures
Umm…

I hate to be that guy, but source?

>>508469443
You don't need a rosary to pray to Jesus. Period.

>>508497019
>If we bow our heads in respect for those who are in Heaven does not mean we worship them
and this is not what ive been talking about. its not what the Bible is talking about either. i still take issue with doing such gestures to inanimate objects though.
>would chase me out of the church for suggesting it.
but ive never seen anyone told to quit kneeling/prostrating before statues of Mary at the various apparition sites. its perfectly normal there. people kneel before statues and pray to the dead Christian lady that it represents, two very unbiblical practices.

>>508497197
>It's a fact that Jesus didnt write a single word of the NT
He sent the Spirit from the Father, the Spirit of Truth who guided His followers into all truth...truth which the Spirit guided them in writing down just as it was meant to be. In a sense, Jesus wrote all of the NT down.

>>508497431
God wrote the 10 commandments supposedly though at least. and a pharasees jew didn't write the OT.
The NT is just a bunch of jewish infighting long after we were already in Europe.
my problem is that no-one trusts pharasees jews except when it come to the NT. when it comes to the NT they dont question the pagan romans or the Babylonian rabbinical jews one bit

>>508498569
>when it comes to the NT they dont question the pagan romans or the Babylonian rabbinical jews one bit
have you ever read the Gospels anon? Theres quite a bit of questioning all of that lot.

>>508471452
your type actually does bow down to "the lords of the earth" and always has.

>>508497877
>He sent the Spirit from the Father, the Spirit of Truth who guided His followers into all truth...
can you even hear yourself? imagine if someone did that today. imagine if Saul shekelberg said
>oh the spirit of God has entered me and told me to write stuff down. These are the words of truth. we have to ditch the new covenant like we did the 1st one and do a 3rd covenant. this one's even more cucked than the 2nd one. now we have to kill ourselves so our enemies can win
what would you say to saul? and if you were around 2000 years ago, would you say the same to Paul? paups real name was saul btw

>>508498794
of course I have. the sermon on the mount is the most new age, eastern karma, simp, cuck garbage I've ever had the misfortune to read.
Buddha and Jesus are the exact same new age guru idol except ones eastern and ones western

>>508499193
Well, all the other apostles accept his teachings and were in agreement with him, so i think its ok to trust them on this one. they were with Jesus the whole time.

>>508492734
>absolute nonsense
Jesus was a demigod according to New Testament, nephilim were too according to Old Testament.

>>508499406
so how can you say that theres no questioning of rabbis? if you read acts and the epistles theres lots of questioning roman pagan stuff too.

>>508499509
If 6 jews back up each others story today would you believe it?
The OT was based.
eye for an eye
kill your enemies before they kill you
the NT is cucked
turn the other cheek
love thy enemies

You carry on reading your cuck book. I'll be over here reading my based book

>>508499406
>sermon on the mount is the most new age
no its not. its literally the spirit of the law (which you claim to want to live by) being taught as whats required if you want to stand before God on your own righteousness. Jesus makes its clear that, for example, even looking with lust on a woman means you break the law against adultery...and so on.

have fun trying to work your own righteousness anon. i hope day you'll come to Christ and that HE will give you rest. His burden is light and His yoke is easy.

>>508497772
No you don't ...but what we call "sacramentals" like the rosary, the chaplet, and so on, are various devotions to deepen our faith and have constant reminders of it. This practice was understood in the medieval era and no Christian had a problem with it. Take pilgrimages as an example, does it say anywhere in the Bible for you to take a pilgrimage to deepen your faith? No. Is it blasphemous if you do? Not at all, it was a common practice.
>>508497877
>i still take issue with doing such gestures to inanimate objects though.
Like I've said, read Catholic doctrine and you will see its not anything to fear and nothing like you think it is. If you had strong feelings against any worldly topic it would make sense that you should probably investigate it thoroughly to make sure you are knowledgeable about your critique, you should do the same with Catholic doctrine.
>I've never seen anyone told to quit kneeling/prostrating before statues of Mary at the various apparition sites.
Like I've said: If you asked them who they were bowing to and they said "God", that would be ok, right? You don't know the content of their prayers or their hearts and it is not your job to police them. Nor does the Catholic priest have a right to go around and nitpick them or suspect them of misdirected worship unless it is something obvious and obscene, it is simply expected that they are praying to God and doing their devotion as they visit the shrine.
>dead Christian lady
Would you refer to Saint Peter or Saint Paul as "some dead Christian guy"? Mary is the mother of Jesus. They are the apostles. Would anyone you know in life be comfortable with you being disrespectful to their mother or their closest friends? Why would Jesus? It makes sense to hold Mary in high regard as she was favored by God enough to carry him in her womb, it makes no sense to try and work towards lessen her position as if she is just "some random Christian lady", I'm sure you understand that.

>>508468571
>the mother of God
kek you people are nuts

>>508499952
lol. It's exactly the same shit Buddha teaches. if you read the whole thing again after learning about karma and shit you'll notice it too

>>508499915
>eye for an eye
talking about legal punishments for crimes committed, to be decided by judges of the people
>turn the other cheek
talking about how to respond to small social humiliations

see how thats different? using the first set of rules on an individual level leads to a world full of violent niggers...and muslims, because they tend to be that way too.

>>508491046
In work in 2 different locations they have Mary icons. The fascination of semireligious people with Mary is a thing to behold

>>508466995 (OP)
They should also remove that bs commandment about not killing. It says you can't kill then it has god ordering the Israelites to kill people right after that plus constant examples of killing that are considered just fine throughout the Bible.

The new age faggot theosophists wrote this a hundred years ago

>Before, however, Christ can come with His disciples, our present civilisation has to die. During the coming century, we shall begin to learn the meaning of the word "resurrection," and the new age will begin to reveal its deep purpose and intention. The first step will be the emergence of humanity from the death of its civilisation, [23] of its old ideas and modes of living, the relinquishing of its materialistic goals and its damning selfishness, and its moving forward into the clear light of the resurrection.

>Full Moon of June, which is recognised as the Full Moon of the Christ, just as the Full Moon of May is that of the Buddha

https://www.lucistrust.org/online_books/the_reappearance_the_christ/chapter_six_the_new_world_religion

>>508468571
The All is greater than any personal being. God men can only be representations of the divine. You can't reduce The All to a single human personality even if said personality has every psychic power imaginable. God is the one, absolute, infinite, eternal, omniscient, omnipresent; not some dead rabbi on a stick.

>>508500619
>using the first set of rules on an individual level leads to a world full of violent niggers
nope. if you kill the killers instead of forgiving them there won't be anymore killers to kill

>>508500970
>conflating OT and Christ with niggers
You do realize that the people in Jew scripture weren't white?

>>508501054
I know that they were white

>>508491805
In Revelation there is mention of a woman clothed with the sun with moon under her feet

>>508501054
also it isn't jew scripture. It's Aryan scripture that the jews stole. jews are thieves and liars dontcha know

>>508501360
revelation is masonic as fuck. the whole thing is some esoteric end times eschatological manual that only makes sense if you have the key

>>508466995 (OP)
May the Christian lord guide my hand against your roman popery. Catholics are a lost and silly lot, but perhaps through God's mercy and forgiveness they may repent of their ignorance and blasphemy yet.

(P. S. Fuck the Pope)

>>508491805
Revelation 12:1

>>508497877
>prots refer to Jesus' own mother as "the dead Christian lady"
You're less respectful to Jesus' mother than to your random bitch of a neighbor, no doubt. If I didn't live on this planet I'd never believe people like you exist.

>>508499982
>it is not your job to police them.
never tried to. but i do think of Gods statements about not bowing to statues. if it was perfectly ok to bow yourself down before statues so long as you have the properly internal thoughts regarded it, then you have to wonder why God made such a deal out of the physical act at all. Daniel and his friends could have just avoided all that trouble by doing as they were told but, secretly, on the inside, praying to God instead.
>something obvious and obscene
i think kneeling before statues of deceased Christians is exactly that. has not a single Biblical support to do it. its not something anyone in the Bible ever did.
>Would you refer to Saint Peter or Saint Paul as "some dead Christian guy"
no. i didn't make it that casual. but they are at this time dead Christians. there is zero reason for anyone to kneeling before statues of them. they objected to people doing that while they were alive.
>you being disrespectful
i wasnt that at all. i think it disrespectful to kneel before statues of them and pray to them
> It makes sense to hold Mary in high regard
of course it depends what you mean, but i afford her the respect that is Scripturally justified.
>lessening
nope, ive not done that at all. you've latched on to where i described her as a dead Christian lady, which she is, and run away with exaggerations. Paul IS a dead Christian man. They were both honored in life by the ministries given to them, but they were also both terrible sinners saved by Gods mercy, deserving only of judgment and damnation without it.
What doesn't make sense is over raising their position as the roman church has done.

>>508500256
i can only come to the conclusion that you really have no idea what you're on about. the statements youve made about the NT, the OT and now this strange view leads me to that conclusion. good luck anon, i hope Christ will draw you to Himself and that you'll be saved.

>>508501683
Lol Jesus was begrudgingly respectful to his own mother. He knew his authority as the son of man, and most definitely would not approve of us showing his mortal mother the utmost veneration and reverence.

Don't you have some more children to molest, retard?

>>508468460
Sounds like you're the rulefag here. Seems pretty basic to me; try your best and if its still not viable then anything is better than nothing.

>>508500970
>if you kill the killers instead of forgiving them there won't be anymore killers to kill
at the level of legal judgements of criminals i agree. but what Christ was saying is not to do with that. notice how He just mentioned a slap on the cheek? that was a small social insult.

>>508501683
this often happens when you dont bow down to the romanists idol. ive done no disservice to Marys honor whatsoever.

>>508501661
some think that's some astrology shit. I can't find the pic but in 2017 there was a conjunction with Virgo the virgin constaltion has the moon below her feet and a crown of stars above her head. can't remember the full details but it was a convincing thing

>>508467918
this

>>508466995 (OP)
but also they're supposedly asking her to take their prayers straight to god
invoking jesus supposedly is for the same effect

not that I'm defending it it because lol catholics