Thread 508585835

Why is the Right suddenly against free speech? At no point did the Left weaponize the government to suppress speech to this degree.

>>508585835 (OP)
It looks like the Norwegian had AIDS, perchance that had more to do with denying him entry?

>>508585835 (OP)
hey look another 1 post by this id kike

>>508585835 (OP)
it is controlled conditioning. Once Trump is voted out and new Democrat and can be put in, they use the precedent to lock down on conservatives

>>508587155
This is exactly what is going to happen but there are a lot of retards supporting this

>>508585835 (OP)
both sides want and more authoritarian government. Anyone who claims otherwise is delusional. Globohomo vs Gulaghomo. that's your choices. they all end the same way: Owning nothing.

>>508585835 (OP)
did this story even happen?
the first version was an american tourist going to norway, and norway didn't let him in because of that meme
now this version, a norwegian tourist in america.
and it's obviously a fake story. why are people so weird

>>508587418
It blows my mind people choose to ignore this

>>508585835 (OP)
I never wanna hear an American cry about the CCP ever again

i dont get the autistic hatred against tourists burgers have when millions of illegal flooded the borders

>>508587470
Even if it didn't happen there were enough people in the previous thread testifying having their phones searched by TSA when coming from foreign countries into the US. This is disturbing that you essentially need a burner phone to travel.

>>508587574
>too many different rivers of blood are flowing into Rome

>>508587527
Nah they are equally as bad

>>508587418
Imagine if Biden had kicked out Swedes for having Let’s Go Brandon memes.
There is a fundamental insecurity hanging over this administration.

>>508585835 (OP)
How would they even know that he has a retarded meme on his phone? I just visited US, and literally the only thing I had to do was fill out some form online before trying entry. At the airport, they just asked what I'm doing there and took finger prints, like they do everywhere, and then I was in.

>>508587155
Good thing we're 11 years away from a Democrat even being considered possible for the presidency.

>>508587900
yes, I agree. instead they set up communications with xitter and facebook to deplatform people instead. not saying it's 1 for 1 comparable, but it's clear that both sides want their own form of narrative control. Gulaghomo is just not as velvet glove as banning you from twitter.

>>508587925
They obviously subjected him to enhanced questioning and asked to see/connect to his phone. It could have been random or it could have been an informed decision. They are already checking socials and background on anybody who books a ticket to the US, so maybe this guy also posted a Trump diaper meme to his Twitter or whatever

>>508585835 (OP)

Meme had nothing to do with it Norwegians are just cucks and we don't want them.

>>508587603
If you go to any foreign country, you're likely getting your phone searched. This isn't unique to the US.

>>508585835 (OP)
>Why is the Right suddenly against free speech?
My dude, I literally want to round up every faggot like you and put you in mass graves.

>>508587603
1 tb SD cards are a thing now. About the size of the nail on your pinky. Just back your phone up to home PC in case SD card is damaged or destroyed. Back up phone to SD card before passing through a port or area you might be searched, then restore that shit after

>>508588251
Maybe Russia or Hungary or Saudi Arabia. Not civilized countries.

>>508585835 (OP)
>At no point did the Left weaponize the government to suppress speech to this degree.


Why are you intentionally lying? Do you realize what a faggot that makes you? What's it like to be a sociopath that is completely morally bankrupt?

>>508587574
None of us hate tourists. This is just the result of us clamping down on illegal immigration and those policies get applied whether they come from Europe or Mexico.

>>508587925
This is a NAFO shill thread anon, these people are complete liars

Its actually amazing

>>508588523
>Doesn't disprove him
>Because he can't

>>508585835 (OP)
right & left are retard

>>508585835 (OP)
Ted Bundy was put to death for having lint in his pocket. How is that justice?

>>508585835 (OP)
you wanted fascism right?

https://icds.ee/en/autor/pekka-kallioniemi/

>Dr Pekka Kallioniemi is an expert on social media and disinformation, who has worked as an independent consultant and a postdoctoral researcher on human-technology interaction at Tampere University (Finland). In addition to his academic interest in state-of-the-art technologies, he has also studied Russian online information operations and disinformation.

This faggot is a literal paid liar

Hopefully Putin nukes him soon

>>508585835 (OP)
Oh... so now yurotards care about free speech?

How many threads are we going to have on this dumb shit?

>>508587574
Blame the illegals flooding in for our new strict visa laws. Nobody gets in for an extended period of time without proving they have enough money to support themselves for the time they are here

>>508587470
>and it's obviously a fake story. why are people so weird
Exactly.
Since the WW3 shilling campaign failed, shills need to pick on another failed talking point to earn their shekels.

>>508588611
Because I know your paid liars and no amount of argument is going to convince you, everyone who has posted on this board should know leftist censorship of the last last decade.

The actual humans here know exactly what the left has done, when I see a canadian flag or a european flag I know its a NAFO globalism shill and you aren't human. You don't matter. Keep talking to the void.

>>508585835 (OP)
That's nice. What smart people will do is research the setup used by the beltway sniper niggers and shoot proud blue soft targets in the chest and skull like pic related.

>>508587155
>>508587306
The difference being the right can just open up on the left due to the difference in firearm competence and opsec. I like this one because he died in broad daylight in front of his screaming family.

>>508585835 (OP)
Reminder
>In FY 2024, out of the over 420 million travelers CBP processed at ports of entry, CBP only searched the electronic devices of 47,047 international travelers.
If you somehow end up in the 0.01% of people who have there devices searched, you probably deserve it.

Criticizing Israel is a crime if you're on a student visa. Soon it will be for all criticism.

free speech is for americans not tourists or hamas or any terrorist or anti america foreigner student

based ICE, fuck european niggas

>>508585835 (OP)
>Why is the Right suddenly against free speech?
Because Israel feels threatened. If you having rights makes Israel less secure then you don't get to have rights.

>>508587470
it does not matter what is real or not.
What matters is how the information effects and programs people.

>>508585835 (OP)
The "free speech warrior" thing was just an aesthetic, they don't believe it. It's like how triggered they get at the concept of masks during a pandemic or health initiatives from a dem government, they don't have good consistent reasons, they just hate the idea of not being in control. Freedom isn't the end goal, it's the feeling of at least being in charge to some degree. That illusion is shattered when someone they didn't vote for is in charge and they handle that worse than dems because at their core, rightwingers oppose the notion that people should be equal and have shared control of government through elected representatives. They lean more monarchist than the left.

>>508587418
>>508587475
It's funny how everyone is willing to accept that businesses only care about making money and are able to see through marketing bullshit saying that they care about customers etc, but for some reason very few people are willing to accept that governments are the exact same, just with power playing the role of money.

Businesses chase money, governments chase power. The primary differences between money and power is that power is zero-sum while money is not, and that power enables you to get things from people without their consent, while money is limited to consensual transactions. Power and money can be converted into each other, so past a certain point they can be viewed as interchangeable. The goal of ALL governments is to become authoritarian dictatorships, regardless of left right red blue sportsball bullshit. No government wants to be a slave to the people. All "democratic" governments are in a constant struggle to liberate themselves from the people.

>>508587527
>>508587794
The west is worse in many ways. At least China's social credit system incentivizes socially positive behaviors and disincentivizes antisocial/degenerate/etc behaviors. Western social credit is the opposite. Both are authoritarian, but at least China is trying to use authority for good rather than for evil.

>>508585835 (OP)
Not buying it.

>tweet plus random pic
>this is enough to convince you as long as it says what you want to believe
libs are so easy to mind control

>why is X
It isn't. Zero effort questionthreads are spam.

>>508588709
is like that other faggot who used to post here the beheading in France or the beheading of his dad

>>508590061
>The "free speech warrior" thing was just an aesthetic, they don't believe it.
Wrong. The free speech extremists absolutely do believe it. They just aren't the only faction in the Republican Party. This is no different from how leftists, liberals, etc are not the same despite clustering in the same party in most two-party countries.

The anti-free speech types in the Republican Party mostly come in two varieties.
1. Zionists/Neocons/etc (the dominant faction in the Republican Party since the 1980s).
2. Ex-leftists (excluding neocons) who were fine with most leftist policies besides the anti-white, anti-male etc stuff (this is where the support for tariffs etc comes from).

1 have always been opposed to free speech on "security" (implicitly Israel's security) grounds, and are one of the two major factions in the intelligence/surveillance/censorship/etc industrial complex. 2 were leftists and thus many of them never had an issue regulating speech to begin with. There is nothing hypocritical about them keeping their old leftist tactics after moving to a new party. The pro-white left still see themselves as the left even if they are in an alliance with conservatives etc, much like how the USSR didn't stop being communist during WW2 when they were allied with the USA.

>>508591154
>The free speech extremists absolutely do believe it. They just aren't the only faction in the Republican Party.
They don't because there are only specific causes they'll show up for and specific types of anti-free speech policy they'll actively oppose. Not even libertarians show up to support pro-Palestine people being punished for their beliefs and if they do they're very few.

The right in general has an anti-free speech leaning because the core of rightwing philosophy is protecting a certain type of power and structure you feel at least benefits you at the cost of not caring about right and wrong done to others while the leftwing aims to spread power and considerations.

>>508585835 (OP)
Didn't this pekka guy jerk off in a concentration camp

>>508585835 (OP)
>At no point did the Left weaponize the government to suppress speech to this degree.
Which is why I was totally free to say whatever I wanted about the clot shots on youtube, twitter, and facebook. Right?

>>508585835 (OP)
Because the lefists were right- giving free speech to my enemies who want to censor and kill me is a mistake. Especially when half the country just repeats talking leftist points others told them ("white man bad, stolen land") without the ability to visualize an apple in their mind, let alone understand the words they are saying or the consequences of their actions long ter beyond their immediate feelings.

Free speech, but only for those free to think.

>>508585835 (OP)
>...to ourselves and our posterity
>who are the posterity of the first Americans?
>Americans
Not American?
Don't have American rights

>>508591730
And then conservatives are largely anti-free speech because conserving traditions means limiting information and grooming your society to meet a standard that is preserved outside of cultural changes that may exist adjacent to it. These standards, to keep them, require censorship and segregation. The dream is that people just naturally fall in line, even when others are free to influence them, but historically that doesn't work.

This is often why conservative libertarians lean fascist; the conditions that their ideas can be functional require fascism to run it's course and create an ethnic and culture homogeny that makes laws and enforcement redundant and unnecessary for the most part. They automatically get what they want, that fascism they feel would never inconvenience them and they have no desire to defend those it would.

>>508585835 (OP)
>Right of free speech for foreigners at the border.
Why would I expect more from NAFO drunkard. The guy constantly advocates that entering a country isn't a right, but suddenly he reverses his position because he saw a meme he approves.

>>508585835 (OP)
If you called Kamala Harris a nigger in public or on social media in 2021-2024 you would have been beaten to death.

>>508593610
>it was real in my mind

>>508593634
>posting something that happened is an opinion
It's fun seeing the conflicting views regarding social media as journalism and/or reporting.

>>508587603
I'm going to personally deport you and your family

>>508585835 (OP)
i think the story is bullshit. what's most likely is that he said he'll be staying for few months so they probably asked him will he be working while he's in the US, and he said yes.

>>508587155
yeah, they've already been doing that any time they've been in power

>>508587470
>>508587603
>>508588873
Not fake. Picked up by multiple outlets. Predictably ignored by Fox News lol

>>508587155
>always the democrats ritually terrorizing law abiding citizens
>"conservatives did this, you see?"
Oh okay, got it fag.

>>508585835 (OP)
Because lying is not free speech

>>508585835 (OP)
BORN TO DILLY DALLY FORCED TO GO BACK TO NORGAY

>>508585835 (OP)
Freedom of speech isn’t freedom from consequences sweetie

>>508585835 (OP)
The right has always been a bunch communist faggots

>>508588873
they bounce from one failed talking point to the next
>musk is president, egg prices, trump crashed market, tap sign, draft, ww3 (lol)
plus a 100 others. have shills ever been right?

non US citizens don't have our 1st amendment right. fuck off.

>>508585835 (OP)
most likely detained for something else and its just the press doing controlled conditioning to go full communist lockdown if they get back in. Detained could be for a few minutes.

NAFO is getting uppity before the nato summit

You faggots are unironically believing this to be true?

>>508588251
>>508588437
Not Russia, not Hungary, not Cuba, not Venezuela, not China, not Saudi Arabia...

>>508585835 (OP)
Good things are good when you have them.
When your enemies have them, it is bad.
Is this really that hard to understand?

>>508585835 (OP)
Free speech is a right ONLY for American Citizens retard. Just like 2a is only for American citizens... christ

>>508585835 (OP)
>At no point did the Left weaponize the government to suppress speech to this degree.
Put my pronouns down your throat, bigot.

>>508586007
>hey look another 1 post by this id kike
Kys faggot

>>508587981
You think AOC won't march into next election with her tits jumping around taking everyone's votes?
She will be of age to run by then.

>>508585835 (OP)
Yes surely it's that and nothing else (like if normally is)

>>508588713
UK isn't really european anymore, they voted for it, and the first thing they did after was mass imports of kikes, jeets and mudslimes.
They deserve everything.

>>508585835 (OP)
>At no point did the Left weaponize the government to suppress speech to this degree.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Top (completely retarded take of the day) kek

>>508598209
There are exceptions that cover anyone here. Before there was debate about constitutional rights being "God given" but since all this started, it's more clearly defined as man given and only applied when convenient. Debating from a constitutionalist standpoint isn't done any more because the parts that include everyone, even illegals, are being openly ignored.

>>508585835 (OP)
Bahahahahahah
The state of amerikikemutts...
>You're dinied entry in USA
>But officer why?
>This pictuwe huwt me deawly.
KEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK

>>508585835 (OP)
>They were rejected for memes and not because of an invalid visa or something else

>>508594506
Post one(1).

One more reason not to travel to the United States. Whenever they start arresting and killing the comedians.

>>508588958
ok bot

>>508585835 (OP)
suddenly?
>conservatives have always been the party of censorship
>conservatives have always been the party of pedophilia
>conservatives have always been the party of war
like that has never been different the last 100 years, only little kids think differently

>>508600456
lol

>>508605626
There was a time when groups would call themselves free speech warriors, but they'd only show up to defend holocaust deniers.

>>508585904
hello Hamid, STDs are only illegal as per Sharia Law, EU/US countries do not outlaw medical conditions (well, the Western ones)
>>508585835 (OP)
>suddenly against free speech
it's not left and right, it's just a consequence of narcissism and entitlement
the EU was always queens and kings but it's very scary when the US does it because that's the last bastion
>>508587470
>did this story even happen?
some other story did, at least as per press, with some scientist detained due to speaking against Trump
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/19/trump-musk-french-scientist-detained
>>508588228
>They are already checking socials and background on anybody who books a ticket to the US
ick
if only for the false positives with the massive amount of political pandering and gatekeeping that people in charge do I'd imagine everyone of worth would have a shitpile of nasty stuff written about them by jealous people
the reason for stopping to drop "stasi" information was that people went to extreme lengths to smear and put other people in trouble because they would get some bonuses in exchange for offering the information
it stopped being "security" and it became like a superbowl to "finally be able to catch person X or Y with something"

>>508590183
>It's funny how everyone is willing to accept that businesses only care about making money and are able to see through marketing bullshit saying that they care about customers etc, but for some reason very few people are willing to accept that governments are the exact same, just with power playing the role of money.
yeah but no
private business and corporations as per economic principle are uniquely interested in making profit because it's their only mandate
the "government" in its republican form does not even "possess money", it's supposed to "redistribute money" to various sectors or workers of society in order to manage the country
there should be no ... "holdings" aside the salary that the representatives get and all the rest of the money should be used where necessary or rolled to the next year
>Businesses chase money, governments chase power.
they just simply do not
if it's gotten to the point of "chasing power" you're not in a democracy anymore nor a republic, you're in a monarchy and a totalitarian one at that given that parliamentary monarchies are deliberately made to be able to limit the effect of monarchs by the people
the point of government is to reallocate resources efficiently because one single person cannot handle everything
washing the streets, fixing gas distribution, desalinating water to get fresh water, etc, we can't all do the same things so you need to delegate some people do that just like you get some dude to go fetch a pizza and bring it to you
not really... from the United Kingdom, are you?

>>508588251
>you're likely getting your phone searched
very rarely
even bodily searches are very rare
you get a summary patdown for the obvious muh gun
they also ask you sometimes to turn you laptop on because it could be a "laptop-looking bomb"
but an actual search is very rare
>searches
also, as a tip, if anyone asks to search your phone, you should refuse and if there's no other choice return back from where you came
accepting to have your phone searched is a Kafka trap and you immediately make it possible for them to do anything from pick on the slightest hint up to planting evidence
it's the same thing as letting the police into your house without a warrant because they do not really need to be in your house but the moment that they are inside, you pretty much invited them and they can pick on anything they might see
>muh statistm
don't be that much of a bootlicker, there should be a limit to cuckoldry, lol

>>508590348
>At least China
I'm afraid you're just early entry into economies of size or what those people said caught in the mid-level income bubble
but China has already started developing "exclusivity trends" where rich people and expensive products are made that rule out "we the people"
I'm afraid that due to Western influence China will end up a grossly entitled nation like some European ones where you'll just end up "ruled"
for now if you're poor you're still on China's side but that situation might change in the future the more they walk with "the big boys" and get influenced that people are just cattle to be ruled
scary thought

>>508601005
worth a screencap

Reminder they raided and completely flooded the board for weeks with this garbage. No better than the BBC thread spammers we had shitting up the baord last night.

>>508594613
Patriot Act. Desegregated schools at gunpoint.

>>508610642
>funny face is no better than promoting miscegenation and demoralization
u w0t m8

>>508609103
Which Sharia law?

Nobody wants more insufferable white libtards here.
We don't need them.

>>508610642
I really liked it, felt like a meme where people actually got creative with , even if it's just planting his stupid face on stuff

>>508585835 (OP)
Free speech is for citizens. We don't have to allow foreigners in who have opinions we find stupid.

>>508585835 (OP)
Sorry we are the woke right here. We love free speech and Vance is a faggot shabbos goy

>>508585835 (OP)
Everytime its the same with this shit
>ICE AGENTS DEPORT little GIRL as she SINGS at her SCHOOL TALENT SHOW
does half of this shit even really happen or what

>>508585835 (OP)
Fuck Norwegians

>>508585835 (OP)
the left fired people for much less than that

>>508611262
Fired by a private employer is different than being abused by the government.

>>508585835 (OP)
>ICE detained a Norwegian tourist
Why?
>who had a JD Vance meme on their phone
Is that why they detained him?
If so, how about some confirmation besides
>trust me dude

>>508585835 (OP)
They didn't need to create laws because all the social media platforms banned free speech for them.

Regardless, he shouldn't have been detained for that IF that was what he was actually detained for. Social media and journalists NEVER lie, right?

>>508610642
you're right, I do not even find the JD meme too funny, pulling faces has a preschooler quality of humor that does not make me laugh all too much but free speech is still a valid point
>>508611007
https://aecmc.com/blog-details/what-happens-if-you-have-an-std-in-uae/en
sadd al-dharāʿi
for example, you cannot get married if you have an STD
for foreigners you might end up with your visa denied if you do have an STD
not saying that the protectionism is bad but it has the same taint as punishing the weary, when, let's say, you got infected due to someone else that didn't take care of their health but you get the blame instead of them

>>508585835 (OP)
You don't deserve rights. You deserve bullets and mass graves.

>>508611927
>all the social media platforms banned free speech for them
social media platforms are not public utilities
what people are talking about is getting a government van parked in front of your house because you said Jews smell of paracetamol on a "my little pony" forum
if Zuckerberg decides tomorrow that all your profile images will be replaced with goats, then so be it, it's his website and his shareholders so up to them and you should look somewhere else to talk to people
like here

>>508611476
>sorry, you can't come in
>I'm being abuuuused!!
kek

>>508585835 (OP)
>not allowed to enter the country
i didnt know people in other countries literally not even here yet have US constitutional protections
shut the fuck up retard, a country is allowed to protect its borders and allow or not allow whoever they want to enter

>>508611476
>i'm homeless and starving to death and can't get healthcare or use a bank but at least the government isn't doing it

>>508585835 (OP)
this specific pekka is a finnish whore for nato shilling for ukraine since 2022, it's a committed retard for globohomo propaganda, just check his X feed

>>508611476
Not if the government makes the diversity laws forcing private employers to fire people.

>>508585835 (OP)
lesson learned, leave your device at home and only bring a burner phone with nothing but few contact numbers on it. don't connect to to any email until in the country. before leaving disconnect everything, factory reset

>>508613400
yeah, sound opsec, but too bad we're here though
don't need to use drug-smuggler tactics to prevent some schmuck at the border downloading my naked wife from my phone, lmao

>a faggot had a CIA forcedmeme on his phone
>this is a worthwhile topic

>>508587470
100% this happened. customs agents in every country have the right to inspect all of your devices and luggage. I dunno how courts allow that when elites have important/secret info on their devices but then you realize that elites travel on private jets from private airports thus aren't subjected to TSA/Customs the way normies are

>>508612191
>social media platforms are not public utilities
That's literally what being a "platform" is though.


If a private "platform" places restrictions on speech beyond what is required by law then it isn't actually a platform, it's a publisher. Editorial oversight (ie curation/censorship/etc of content) means the company is considered legally responsible for what they publish. The companies claim to be platforms in order to shift responsibility onto the users, but they violate the terms of being a platform when they exercise editorial oversight by restricting free speech. The companies (and their leftist stooges) can't have it both ways.

>>508612191
They are public utilities. What makes you say they aren't? Private ownership? That's retarded. Every one of them was caught taking federal funds and working with the government to silence people.

https://reason.com/2024/08/29/mark-zuckerberg-meta-letter-censorship-facebook/

>>508585835 (OP)
I unironically look like the Vance meme.

>>508585835 (OP)
Right wing cuckolds will defend this too.

>>508614207
I am not surprised.
But seriously, stay out of america. It's a totalitarian shithole.

>>508585835 (OP)
Ok but why was he detained?

>>508613753
>cheers on jewish fascim
You're a simple life form

>>508612191
Twitter did it too. Every major platform did it.

>>508585835 (OP)
So are you saying the Left DID weaponize the government to suppress free speech?
Yes or no.

>>508613820
>platform
it's a mislabel then, classically you called a website a website because you'd go to an address and you got some HTML in a viewer and you'd read the content and walk away
trouble is that "business" took over the Internet so the website is not just some HTML it is some response thing that is integrated into other services like banking or being a "cheap" replacement for a phone call
even in software you have the same issue where it's not just "PHP" or "JavaScript code" anymore, you call it a platform or a framework that represents the sum-total of all components that act together to create this service
it's not "platform" as in town crier, no, just misleading or maybe even deliberately misleading, i'll give you that but it's due to technicalities
>If a private "platform" pl...
I agree with everything you write after that and I have no comeback :)
just people that managed to get ahead of others and have a ... "special" legal standing
it happens on the low end too, like if you're too small, a 6 yo can "publish" the picture of Hitler on a website and technically they won't be slammed by the cops in jail
>The companies (and their leftist stooges) can't have it both ways.
yeah, I mean, to contradict you, you'd have to dismantle why it would be wrong to shill for palestine instead of israel and not call it "free speech"
>social networks
I think that people in general should be more aware of "property" and the fact that being allowed to be somewhere is not necessarily the same as being the owner of that particular place
or in other words, people give too much credit or take for granted stuff that is literally not their own and that they do not own
for example I never touched Twitter because from the get-go I got the impression that is semi-governmental and that it would not be "free" in any way
... funny that that hunch turned out more true than I could have possibly imagined given that the FBI were literally the mods there, lol

>>508614092
>They are public utilities. What makes you say they aren't?
public utiltities are funded out of taxpayer money and you do not pay taxes for facebook or twitter
>Private ownership? That's retarded.
lol, private ownership is retarded only in Soviet Russia
>Every one of them was caught taking federal funds and working with the government to silence people.
ah well, that's true, and so did Twitter
>exceptions confirming the rule
you should name a cow a cow and a pig a pig
don't say that property does not exist because you've got some dude that trespassed yesterday
or that privacy doesn't exist because you heard about some case where the CIA did something or other
privacy very much exists and is even fortified and backed by laws much more than it ever was
claiming the contrary due to some bad cases is ultimately defeatist
it's fine if you take necessary protections because you know it's an issue but also don't put your hands in the air or accept just about anything on some emo belief that "privacy" or "property" is dead
or you'd be normalizing the situation which is just as bad

>>508585835 (OP)
>The kid's name is Mads Mikkelsen
Is this a common name in Norway or something?

>>508585835 (OP)
Because it needs to win a war and democracy prohibits said war