Thread 508631382

Would more migrants boost my salary?

>>508631382 (OP)

No, but taxing the rich would. The rich don't want you to think or talk about it so migrants are the scapegoats.

>>508631382 (OP)
My boss hires illegals

>>508631521
It’s possible to kick out invaders and tax the rich.

>>508631521
We talk about both though

>>508631382 (OP)
Supply and demand. End all immigration from every country.

>>508631382 (OP)
How does an increase in the labor supply not result in a decrease in the equilibrium wage demand?

>>508631382 (OP)
so deport both?

>>508631789
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO STOP BRINGING THAT UP IMPORT YOUR REPLACEMENT RIGHT FUCKING NOW GOYIM AND NEVER EVER MENTION THAT YOUR BOSS MIGHT BE JEWISH

>>508631521
>the migrants don't want you to think about it so the rich are the scapegoats

>>508631382 (OP)
>it's your boss
And why is he able to do so?

>>508631789
Because immigrants purchase goods and services
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy

>>508631521
Unions be like increase minimum wage and income tax.

i know this is some half assed bait post but this rhetoric is so cancerous
>corporation imports immigrants / illegals / refugees
>doesnt need to pay said immigrants
>drives down local prices, also floods country with swarthoids
then some smug shitlib comes along and tells you that corporations don't take advantage of immigrants whatsoever and just keep your wage low because they feel like it, and that mass migration is toooootallly seperate
no you retard they realise they can put immigrants through the wringer and just deport them if they quit
they dont deliver food on bike for the love of it

>>508632064
No, they don't. No economists will ever convince me otherwise. The immigration will most likely save abd send the money elsewhere.

>>508631521
What do leftist retards have to say about this?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikebreaker

Tax is a scam, immigrants are a scam.
People only care about money more than ever, a soulless age.

>>508631382 (OP)
You should try to import more Jeets and niggers to help you seize the means of production.

>>508631382 (OP)
These faggots that complain about this shit never goes anywhere in life they have cattle mentality. They will never become a boss

>>508631789
should be that simple but then there are voters who elect bad leaders who fuck with the economy in bad ways, then there are unions who fuck with the economy in bad ways, then there are employers who fuck with the economy in bad ways
and then there are the landowners who dgaf because they own up all the land and you pay rent for the privilage of being screwed hard on it

>>508632064
WoW America must have been a poverty stricken shit hole than prior to mass immigration in the 50s and 60s!

>>508632064
Well obviously not in the quantity that remotely matters. They make less than minimum wage right? That means they have less to spend into the economy. Which means less jobs unless people are willing to work for less... no?

>>508631521
its supply and demand retard

removing immigrants lowers the labor supply which increases its value.. jfc this is elementary school shit

>>508631382 (OP)
>Would more migrants boost my salary?

salary?

>>508632064
Also to humor your theory you should know that the only source in that Wikipedia page is a New York times article hidden behind a paywall criticizing Trump

>>508632327
One thing about immigration is that it's about quality. One hundred Nigerians is not the same as one hundred Europeans.

>>508632064
yes immigrants lower the value of labor, decreasing wages, and increase the value of property, and thus the cost of living

that is why they all must be removed, by death if necessary

>>508631521
>>Raising taxes for governments somehow increases private wages

You’re a gorilla nigger

>>508632562
Demographics are destiny.

>>508631382 (OP)
I don't like when shit is phrased as a response but isn't directed at a particular individual. Same reason I tend to side against MSM when they do the
>No, ...
headline format. It's basically putting words in the mouths of the people and then using that to justify attacking them, which feels like something an enemy of the people would do.

>>508632562
europeans are better because they dont commit as many crimes which place an enormous burden on society but they still fuck over wagies hard

>>508632574
facts

>>508632562
Most definitely

>>508631521
>No, but taxing the rich would.
More money for the government changes nothing. Your boss is the government. The group of people that gives orders.

>>508632064
>muh fallacy
you think wages in agriculture and hospitality wouldnt rise without immgirants willing to work for slave wages
do you vote left? let me guess
you stupid fuck

>>508632710
>but they still fuck over wagies hard
All depends on what they're working at and their intentions of innovation. 99% of the time immigration is just a brown shit looking to do low paying jobs. That's not including the immigration who come for just benefits.

>>508631382 (OP)
Somebody may want to inform these guys you can either be pro-worker or pro-open borders, but not both. Imported migrant slave labour is literally the number one cause for wages getting dumped.

>>508631521
Taxing the rich requires cooperation. The purpose of cultural unity is to make it easy to cooperate in the absence of authority. Multicultural societies need more authoritarianism to achieve the same level of cooperativity as a homogeneous society. Once you introduce multiculturalism to a society, that society will always become more authoritarian and/or less cooperative in response, not because the people are evil, but because of basic mathematics. Blaming the people and calling them "racists" etc just because you failed to understand this dynamic is why the working classes stopped identifying with the left..

>>508631382 (OP)
thats not wrong.
the employer is employing the illegal. the illegal didnt decide he'd get the job. the manager chose that.

>>508632064
>fallacy about the number of jobs not being affected
>conveniently doesn't mention wages

>>508632937
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WE HAVE TO GIVE THE GOVERNMENT ABSOLUTE POWER SO THEY CAN HAVE ALL THE MONEY SO CORPORATIONS CAN'T HAVE IT OKAY IDIOT!?!?!??!

>>508631382 (OP)
both of them can be true at the same time

>>508633128
If corporations and unions can exploit immigrants for cheap labour and membership fees, then why can't the working man?

>>508631521
Leftists can only understand half the issue.
The definitive solution is the total shutdown of the money printer + raise the minimum wage. Just that.

>>508633252
Revolving door, government and economic elites are the same people. Taxation is just straigh up stealing money instead of at least having to sell you some trinket to get it.

>>508631382 (OP)
Yes! It is my boss.

Hiring illegals, keeping my salary low because if I don't take it, there will be some crosseyed Tejano Caballero tortilla eating beaner to take my spot at less than half the salary.

>>508633128
It's funny how every single successful society across all of space and time had borders, despite them supposedly being dumb and bad for the economy etc. If open borders was so beneficial then why didn't anyone do it? It's not like people in the past didn't have the technology, since open borders has no technological requirements. These people seem to genuinely believe that everyone born before them was a retard. It's like a weird cult of the current year.
>We are living in the most prosperous time in human history
>We are the freest people in human history
>We are the healthiest people in human history
>We are the most intelligent people in human history
etc. Everything before current year was actually wrong, and there was no logical reason for any of it, it was just like that because everyone was dumb before I was born. It's creepy as fuck.

>>508633128
>>508634013
leftists just want to destroy society
nothing else motivates them
and they are allied with shitskins in that
its a shittest and if you fall for it, your society is done

>>508632574
/thread

>>508631382 (OP)
Commie party of France was the first political force in Europe to say that massive immigration from shitholes was bad mainly for the local low-class employees.
The "workers" in your OP pic are fake leftists payed by Soros to gaslight people all these years with this excuse. Here's another y'all heard often:
>"if an illegal, without documentation/CV/language/references/bank takes your job, what does that say about how shitty your potential job was, lmao kys chud"
pathetic Soros gaslighting

>>508631382 (OP)
if trickle down economics was real yes, bigger economy more trickle. But that's not how it works

>>508632209
I was wondering what the responses were going to be but I'll admit I never considered "Immigrants do not purchase goods and services," that's an impressive level of delusion
>>508632327
"Mass immigration" didn't happen in the 50s, you're thinking of the McCarran-Walter Act, which had little impact BECAUSE it was so restrictive. The Hart-Cellar Act was in 65, and urban economies like NY, Chicago, and LA continued to grow long past the postwar economic boom.
>>508632359
>They make less than minimum wage right?
Not legal migrants, no, that would be illegal.
>That means they have less to spend into the economy.
On its face this is true but it's more complicated than that. Poor people spend more of their money per dollar due to the Marginal Propensity to Consume, MPC. Businesses rely on patronage by low-to-middle income people (think restaurants, wal-mart, etc.)
Rich people contribute more to long-term growth and investment, but poor people are better for short-term economic stimulus.
Furthermore, consider that immigrants come to the country at working age, which means the gov't doesn't have to foot the bill for 18 years of education, healthcare, etc. and if they retire to their home country, even better for us.
>Which means less jobs unless people are willing to work for less... no?
Nope. Unemployment in the US was at a record low before COVID (3.5%) and is almost back down to pre-COVID levels (4.2%). Immigration appears to have little effect on real wage growth compared to factors like deindustrialization, declining unions, global competition, minimum wage, and corporate consolidation.
>>508632505
What the hell are you talking about? picrel
>>508632574
Again, this is only true in areas with fixed supply, like LA. If you have elastic supply the effects are negligible. Restrictive zoning laws and NIMBYism are choking this country out and gatekeeping zoomzooms from owning homes.

>>508634786
shut the fuck up retarded kike nobody is reading your pilpul

>>508631382 (OP)
*using migrants
i dont care who's to blame for it, they just gotta go

>>508633393
>If corporations and unions can exploit immigrants for cheap labour and membership fees, then why can't the working man?

Tell them all about it.

https://iww.org.uk/contact/

>>508632940
What happens to your grocery bill when the berry pickers are making $15 an hour instead of $8? Unless you pick berries for a living that sounds like a raw deal. Do you pick berries for a living anon?
>>508633250
Real wages aren't meaningfully affected by immigration; I've already addressed this.
>>508634835
Good job cletus! That was a close one, you almost learned something today.

>>508635430
SEETHE KIKE
SEETHE FOREVER
YOU LOST

>>508634786
>Immigrants do not purchase goods and services
Complete exaggeration. You're going to pretend that they're big consumers of goods and services when, in reality, most are cheap skates looking to save money or get hand outs. To make it worse, any goods and services that they use or buy do not benefit local economies. Most try to avoid paying taxes, too.

>>508631382 (OP)
Immigrants reduce bargaining power and flood the labor market allowing your boss to lower or stagnate wages. It's why Caesar Chavez was anti illegal immigration.

>>508635430
>What happens to your grocery bill when the berry pickers are making $15 an hour instead of $8?
notice how this leftist nigger is shifting the conversation after he obvioulsy lost the argument
of course prices would be higher, but so would be wages
at the same time we would save endless money on social spending and the police, we would have more available housing, our schools would be safer, our public spaces would be safer and you wouldnt hear foreign gibberish everyhwere you go
in short quality of life would be higher
you fucking leftist nigger
fucking cunt
I hope a refugee slits your fuckign throat

>>508632028
>>508631382 (OP)
>>it's your boss
a bunch of the managers i have worked for have been migrants

>>508631382 (OP)
both are the problem.

there is a senior manager or director somewhere who is given a bucket of money for their department's payroll to do as he sees fit, including his own payroll.
that manager will navigate the migrant slaves and the 1 or 2 loyals that keep the department running while pocketing the rest.

>>508635430
>What happens to your grocery bill when the berry pickers are making $15 an hour instead of $8?
So you're saying immigration keeps prices down? And wages?

>>508632064
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy
>In economics, the lump of labour fallacy is the misconception that there is a finite amount of work—a lump of labour—to be done within an economy which can be distributed to create more or fewer jobs

That's fucking retarded. There's clearly a limit on the "amount of work" in any economy. If there wasn't then you import billions of people, and still have 100% (or some high number) employment. If you don't believe that, then were just arguing over where the ceiling it.

>>508631382 (OP)
No. They boost the bosses because he gets people who will do overtime off the clock without question because they can be replaced.
I'm glad you support this system by allowing people okay with aiding him though. Weird stance but as long as you believe in it.

>>508631382 (OP)
The rich mass employ illegals because they're willing to accept less and work in worse conditions, and they can be disposed of freely if they ever try to cause trouble.
Those who try to juggle all their different virtue-signaling topics are fucking retards. True socialism requires guarded nationalism and the prioritization of the citizenry. You can't have mass immigration and socialism, because your system will be bled dry. If you want to export a socialist model, you build a FUNCTIONING model in your own nation, and then you try to adapt that to other nations. You don't just take the whole of humanity and toss them into one big stateless, faceless, democratically-nullified cage fight.

Immigrants are given hiring preference over natural born citizens through government subsidies. Last year was the highest record of remittances from foreign workers/international students/invaders to their home countries. So now nobody has a job except for the revolving door of darker and stupider slave labour that keeps arriving and less money is being invested into our economy.

>>508635596
Immigrants comprised about 20% of the U.S. tax revenue in federal, state, and local taxes in 2023. In fact, immigrants contribute to social security and medicare programs with payroll taxes even if they're not eligible for the programs themselves. Nothing you're saying is backed up by any data, at all.
>>508635904
>of course prices would be higher, but so would be wages
*if you work as a berry picker or dish washer*, you retard. For everyone else, you're just spending more money for the same goods. Not to mention the knock-on effects as the majority of americans now have less money to spend.
>we would save endless money on social spending
As I've pointed out, immigrants contribute to social programs through taxes, even though they may not be eligible for those selfsame programs.
>and the police, we would have more available housing, our schools would be safer, our public spaces would be safer
Immigrants commit less crime per capita than native-born americans
>and you wouldnt hear foreign gibberish everyhwere you go
This is the real reason to be anti-immigration. It's not en economic issue, but a cultural one. Stick to what you're good at and just be racist, that's fine, but don't LARP like you have an economic education beyond what you kind of remember from high school.
>>508636352
The deleterious effect immigration has on wages is usually small and concentrated to specific, low-skill areas of the labor market (and even that is debated among economicsts.) Funnily enough it mostly negatively affects black & hispanic workers, but on a national level and in the long run no, immigration doesn't suppress wages in the higher skill jobs due to factors like increased demand and occupational segmentation (think a foreman vs. a construction worker).
>>508636491
Yes, if you treat immigration like a binary choice between 0 immigrants and infinity immigrants, the whole thing falls apart. You should write a paper!

>>508637108
>Yes, if you treat immigration like a binary choice between 0 immigrants and infinity immigrants, the whole thing falls apart. You should write a paper!
So you agree it's not a fallacy and that immigration does affect wages, we're just arguing over the minimum amount that affects wages? Good to know.

>>508632064
Most immigrants send vast amounts of their wages back home to family and live off of the basics.
Additionally most of their income remains undisclosed and untaxed. They're also less likely to consume - and to consume the *right thing* - compared to natives.

>>508632064
Additionally saturation of economics is completely possible, especially with automation and efficiency increases. The same thing that needed 500 people to be produced before is produced by 10 people now. Labor opportunity is not infinite.

>>508631382 (OP)
no, ending corporate personhood and immense corporate tax benefits and subsidies and non-prosecution of international tax evasion using fraudulent accounting/transfer pricing practices using opaque offshore tax haven jurisdictions would

transitioning from a private equity model of ownership to cooperative worker-controlled business models would, as well. mutualism, syndicalism, distributism.

>>508631521
memeflag shill immediately introduces a red herring thread-diverting rote talking point. you sockpuppet judas soul-selling whore tool of the babylon control system. i hope what they're paying you is worth it.

>>508637108
>mmigrants comprised about 20% of the U.S. tax revenue in federal, state, and local taxes in 2023. In fact, immigrants contribute to social security and medicare programs with payroll taxes even if they're not eligible for the programs themselves. Nothing you're saying is backed up by any data, at all.
This is awesome!
Now let's see how much welfare on the federal, state, and local level they ate up (THAT WE KNOW OF.)
I'm gonna go on a limb and say significantly more than 20%. :)

>Immigrants commit less crime per capita than native-born americans
Factor out second-gen naturalized immigrants and African-Americans and a different picture emerges. :)
>This is the real reason to be anti-immigration. It's not en economic issue, but a cultural one.
Oh, it is an economical reason - immigration is very economically profitable - for the rich. For everyone else, it's miserable.
The cultural thing is just a collateral side effect.
There is a limited amount of resources our population has access to, and we're increasingly shit at extracting or creating more.
These resources have to be distributed somehow.
The rich hoard most, then import niggers to hoard the rest.

>>508631382 (OP)
The boss that hires the migrants? Well how could he hire the migrants if there werent any

>>508637388
i.e. production becomes more efficient as technology advances, a principle that has held true since I don't know the discovery of irrigation o algo
>>508637248
roughly 74 billion in remittance vs. i think around 650 billion in taxes last year, OK retard.
>>508637239
No, I don't agree, if you'd like to try again go ahead.
>>508637698
>I'm gonna go on a limb and say significantly more than 20%. :)
Careful on that limb there, it's breaking. Immigrants pay more in taxes than they receive in benefits.
>Factor out the things that make me wrong and I'm right!
Fascinating.
>Immigration hurts anyone who isn't rich
I've argued the point sufficiently that it doesn't by this point and we're going in circles now. If you want to argue it benefits the rich more, fine, but like, doesn't everything? Being rich sounds nice.

>>508637388
Is there a way to formalize this statement?
Not an economist... is there a model that describes this?

Like what is the point at which it doesn't make economic sense to let humans touch anything because robots do everything better.
Is there a way to mathematically model this?

AT which point what is the point of money?
Basically this describes us moving back to feudalism but why would a feudal lord even want people in this case?
Just as friends to play with his children i guess?

As things which house the genetic diversity profile he desires for his offspring

>>508631382 (OP)
The boss wants to hire migrants so he can pay them less. Deport the migrants and fine and jail the boss. It's not rocket surgery.

>>508631382 (OP)
The real scam is the federal income tax. You're giving 25% - 40% of your income away to pay interest on a national debt that gets spent on bombs, graft, and degeneracy.

Healthcare was cheap in the US until the federal government started subsidizing it.
Housing was cheap in the US until the federal government started subsidizing it.
Education was cheap in the US until the federal government started subsidizing it.
Notice a pattern?

>>508637971
>roughly 74 billion in remittance vs. i think around 650 billion in taxes last year, OK retard.
Hidden costs. Many programs to immigrants are only available to them and them alone, not to natives. Local govts sponsor hotels to create refugee centers, give those migrants 'daily allowances' and smartphones then flag those as operative expenses and not welfare. It's hidden tax drainage. New York was the most appalling case of this, but it happens all over the western world, because it's a great way for politicians to launder money and justify certain ((fiscal policies.))
AND that doesn't even mention the GIGANTIC cartel of state-sponsored NGOs that operate over the border and into the seas to fascilitate bringing in these immigrants, all on the taxpayer's dime.
But please tell me what a great net tax benefit the migranterinos are!

>i.e. production becomes more efficient as technology advances, a principle that has held true since I don't know the discovery of irrigation o algo
This means that labor becomes more scarce, which makes it more valuable, which makes it more important that these positions end up in natives' hands instead of being off-sourced to immigrants or, worse yet, cramped in nebulous 'diverse' workspaces that prevent unionization and fair wage negotiations, as diversity is proven to do.
>Careful on that limb there, it's breaking. Immigrants pay more in taxes than they receive in benefits.
Only in moderate official estimates. Additionally many studies are done that Asians and Europeans are the only ethnicities in America that are a net tax negative over their lifetime.

>>Factor out the things that make me wrong and I'm right!

>Duuude actually immigrants are slightly more peaceful than niggers (but not their children), therefore, infinity migration!
Careful, Schlomo, you're starting to slip up.

>>508632064
With welfare for their little dreamer

>>508631382 (OP)
>migrants aren't scabs
Yes, they are. Eat shit, paki shitter.

>Its not your cancer that’s making you sick; it’s the cancer causing chemicals that gave you cancer
Ok
Spic

No more spics, send them home
Make it a federal offense punishable by 10 years minimum for hiring illegals
Problem solved

>>508631382 (OP)
>they are willing to work for less money
>hiring people for cheaper isnt pushing down wages
haha

>>508631382 (OP)
The boss is the one hiring the migrants. Stupid fucking poster. Fuck IWW.

t. real actual union worker in a real AFL-CIO union. Not a LARPing tranny in IWW which is nothing more than a book club for Antifa drug addicts.

>>508631382 (OP)
but the boss is importing the migrants

>>508632064
This was probably the case for women entering the workforce and European migrants waves in the early 1900s, but it assumes that in 2025, immigrant's job sector concentrations are somewhat uniform, which isn't really true today.

>>508631382 (OP)
Yes sir. Full boost guaranteed sir. Bring more migrants sir.

>>508638548
So just so I'm clear, the strong claim is how many billions of dollars in hidden costs? Because at the end of the day our GDP per capita is still extremely competitive with comparable OECD nations, and still top ten even when accounting for tax havens like the fucking cayman islands

>>508631581
Damn why’s this so hard to grasp. Taxing the rich more and inviting in hordes of people is taking with one hand giving with another. Not really though as taxing the rich gives it to the government who wastes it and hands it out to retards

>>508635430
>What happens to your grocery bill when the berry pickers are making $15 an hour instead of $8?

If we paid people $0 would food be free?

>>508635430
>I've already addressed this
Addressed with the bullshit of accepting a low quality economy

>>508632064
>Because immigrants purchase goods and services
So, you're saying they increase demand?

>>508631382 (OP)
The idea that increasing the labour supply won't reduce wages is laughable.

>>508647824
The laughable part is how easily capitalists tricked the pro-labor communists of America into importing more scabs. All they had to do is say you'll be racist if you don't.

>>508635430
>remove cheap berry pickers
>employ expensive berry pickers
>there is now less demand for the berries, driving prices down, while the increased wages increase prices
would this not be a net equilibrium berry move

>>508648147
Yeah, it's wild.

>>508631521
what is stopping them from passing the cost to the consumer?

>>508646165
No, considering cotton wasn't free in the antebellum south. You're still paying for profit margins, distribution, property taxes, etc. but you wouldn't have to cover the cost of labor.
>>508647645
The US economy is one of the strongest in the world, and is far more hampered by low housing supply, sticky inflation, retarded tarriffs (thanks Trump!), soaring deficit spending (thanks Trump!), protectionism (thanks - well, you get the idea), looming automation... immigrants are far, far down the list if they even are on the list in the first place.
>>508647797
...yes? That's the whole argument. People can both provide labor (by working) and demand labor (by purchasing things). Therefore, importing people does not strictly increase the supply of labor without affecting demand as well.
>>508648516
If and only if people demanded as much as or less than they supplied, i.e. you aren't offsetting the demand for labor as much as you're annihilating the supply of it. Again, if you work as a berry picker, you're pretty happy with the wage bump. If you work in any other field, you're not too pleased with your grocery bill suddenly doubling. Then you're curbing discretionary spending to accommodate for that and now the velocity of money grinds to a halt and our economy starts to tank. There's a reason no country just kicks out all the immigrants and shudders its borders to juice its economy - it simply doesn't work. Uganda tried it in 1972 under Idi Amin and it was catastrophic. Japan is struggling with labor shortages and a contracting GDP and as a result are relaxing their immigration policies to keep up with the demand for labor.