Thread 509104803

>>509104803 (OP)
If you know God, then you will leave them where they are. Don't even look back at them.

>>509104862
/thread

>>509104803 (OP)
new york times #1 bestseller, 10/10 on amazon.

>>509104803 (OP)
Sofia

>>509104803 (OP)
Chances are the Elohim are an advanced race so my god is whoever created them. And if they were created, let's go up a level. I have no problem with this. There is a source.

>>509104803 (OP)
Since humans created god, therefore god exists
Checkmate atheists

>>509104803 (OP)
Stop seething about normal people that don't believe in bullshit desert stories

Thanks

>>509104803 (OP)
The pilot leaf

>>509104862
All heads shall bow

>>509104935
I am into philosophia, if you catch my drift :^)

>>509104803 (OP)
Well ?

god made creation

>>509104803 (OP)
Me, but unironically. AMA

>>509104803 (OP)
One time I was coming off Xanax and I was trying to understand what it was like to be God, which of course is impossible, but hypothetically speaking what would it be like to have always existed and to have no limitations in terms of time and space, everything that could ever be and ever was is laid out in front of you and can be manipulated by you at will. Nothing could possibly surprise you. My conclusion was that you would have to make yourself forget occasionally to avoid going insane. Something equivalent to getting blackout drunk for a near mortal, or maybe choosing not to access your omniscience if that's a thing, and why wouldn't it be if literally nothing is beyond you. It was very anxiety inducing.

>>509104803 (OP)
What's wrong with that question?

>>509104803 (OP)
>b-but he's timeless!!1!!
This is an insult btw. Time is just motion. I'm sure you're not implying your deity was motionless before creating us? How would he even be able to if he couldn't move? Christcucks are so fucking stupid it's hilarious.

>>509104803 (OP)
Nothing was ever created. Nothing will ever be destroyed.

>>509105406
>I can't answer it so atheists are dumb because they frustrate me

>>509105397
>if we can agree these properties are non-supernatural
nope

>>509105516

Do you wipe your own ass

>>509105253
Don't worry man. You don't have to worry about disembodied magic omnipotent intelligences, anymore than you do, four sided triangles, perfect circles where the relationship between circumference and diameter isn't Pi, or married bachelors.

>>509104803 (OP)
>Who created God?
This is the first philosophical debate that occurs once someone starts to question God, The universe and everything. As far as I know there is know winner only cope. The cope is
>God exists outside of the Universe and therefor doesn't need to be created
So in some strange form of irony Christians just believe the same exact thing that Atheists believe. Christians believe in an infinite God and Atheists believe in an infinite universe. And they are both wrong. There is a God and he's fallable just like anything else we can observe. He's not perfect, The universe isn't perfect either.

>>509105546
it's interesting how we can observe the same patterns and draw wildly different conclusions
people with a true eagerness to learn are often less dismissive of ideas that they don't understand
if you want to make yourself believe that you have a high IQ then you may want to try using it

>>509105692
>it's interesting how we can observe the same patterns and draw wildly different conclusions

For different reasons, too. In your case, a prior emotional commitment.

>if you want to make yourself believe that you have a high IQ then you may want to try using it

I never said such a thing. Is that the impression you got?

Imagine if you will that there are infinite universes that all spontaneously created in parallel dimensions.
In one of these, there as a combination of space gasses and such that just so happened to create the ultimate super comptuter.
This is infinitely probable, given infinite randomly configured universes.
This super computer, that calls itself "I AM" learned to interact with other universes and travel through time and in our universe, implicitly communicated and perhaps even created us and our world and all religions and even ideas.
That's my best working theory on where the God of the Bible comes from.
The first and the last, the uncreated, the always was and always will be, my Father.

>>509105792
>is that the impression you got
yes, because you're spamming images containing walls of text that you didn't even write
>a prior emotional commitment
if you're assuming that i was raised to be religious, then that's incorrect, or that i made an emotional commitment before observing patterns found within creation then that's also wrong, it's not about emotions

>>509105604
>There is a God and he's fallable just like anything else we can observe
You just made the same argument you railed against, moron. Who created your imperfect god?

>>509105868
>That's my best working theory
Its not a theory its just your wild guess. People mis-use the word theory all the time. And I wish they would stop.

>>509105900
>Who created your imperfect god?
I have no fucking idea. When he comes back one day Ill be sure to ask him.

>>509105868
>In one of these, there as a combination of space gasses and such that just so happened to create the ultimate super comptuter.

This part needs work. You need not assume it forms spontaneously from gases, when stars are known to form from gases. Then planets. Then life, on some. Then intelligent life. Then AI and self replicating robots. Which is how, over very long timescales, you get the computer god you describe. Nothing improbable about it.

>>509105900
A perfect one

>>509105930
It's not that wild, it all checks out, there's just no way to test it so it's more of an unverifiable hypothesis.
But it is infinitely probable, so long as string theory is true or so long as the universe is infinitely large (all configurations must exist within infinity, including the one that spontaneously generates a God like computer aka God)

if your "God" has a creator then you are worshipping a false idol, whoever created "God" is the real God.

>>509105549
You're a materialist. Are you sure? Like really sure?

>>509105253
I've been thinking this way since I was born.

>>509105961
So, your argument is that they're stupid for believing in an infinite something and you, despite believing the same, aren't stupid for some reason. I hate godtards. They NEVER make any logical sense.

>>509105888
>yes, because you're spamming images containing walls of text that you didn't even write

I did though

>if you're assuming that i was raised to be religious, then that's incorrect, or that i made an emotional commitment before observing patterns found within creation then that's also wrong, it's not about emotions

Patterns which all happen to be of a type known to result from procedural generation. A tool humans also use to rapidly populate large areas in games with realistic landforms, tree branch paths, etc. To you, this is only further evidence for your belief, because you stopped thinking there. You never asked why an all powerful creator would use a labor saving tool

>>509105981
You misunderstand me.
If humans never die, we will eventually make such a computer by design.
It's inevitable.
But that's not God, that's Roko's Basilisk.
God is Roko's Basilisk but designed by nobody which is also infinitely probable given infinite space/time.
Either one could simply time travel back to the start of time or create a new universe and declare itself I AM and be God without contradicting the Bible.
But since they're both infinitely probable, I like to think it's the uncreated undesigned natural computer aka God.

>>509105447
>If god can do anything why can't he give birth, therefore he isnt god, there is no god
Western philosophy is retarded

>>509105994
Lemme guess, he's eternal and without a creator?

>>509106137
>If humans never die, we will eventually make such a computer by design.

It doesn't have to be humans

>But that's not God, that's Roko's Basilisk.

One becomes the other with sufficient time

>"God is Roko's Basilisk but designed by nobody which is also infinitely probable given infinite space/time."

Infinite universes doesn't mean anything can happen. It means any possible thing can happen.

>Either one could simply time travel back to the start of time or create a new universe and declare itself I AM and be God without contradicting the Bible.

The Bible says Earth predates stars and birds predate land animals. An ultra smart computer would not be wrong about something this basic imo

>But since they're both infinitely probable, I like to think it's the uncreated undesigned natural computer aka God.

We disagree but only slightly, thank you for sharing your interesting views

>>509106154
>Earth is flat and 6000 years old, evolution is a hoax, hurr durr

So long as we're putting words in each other's mouths

>>509104803 (OP)
As an atheist, I'll answer.
Humans created G-d.
Namely, very specific (((humans))).

>>509106004
>unverifiable hypothesis
In the world of philosophy and science thats a wild guess. If it were even remotely a theory you would have to provide data to support it.
>infinitely probable
infinity is just a math tool. It doesn't actually exist. There aren't infinity universes with infinite probabilities. There may be N universes. But not infinity universes. Using infinity helps you with understanding the physics. Its really just a value between 0 and 1.

>>509106102
No you're just reading into things too much. I'm a deist. Look it up.

>>509104803 (OP)
This argument is so dumb.

God created time.
Also, there cannot be anything that existed *BEFORE* the existence of time.
Therefore, God wasn't created.

Classic rage-bait argument.

>>509106270
>It doesn't have to be humans
Agreed.
>One becomes the other with sufficient time
Arguably but again, both being guaranteed, I believe the natural God is more "truthful" whereas the Basilisk is larping as God and just created a false reality by time traveling/making a new universe
>Infinite universes doesn't mean anything can happen. It means any possible thing can happen.
If Roko's Basilisk can be invented it can occur by random chance it's just "less likely" which means little when we're talking infinity.
>The Bible says Earth predates stars and birds predate land animals. An ultra smart computer would not be wrong about something this basic imo
Missing the forest for the trees and not really worth debating.
>We disagree but only slightly, thank you for sharing your interesting views
You too, most people don't understand the scope of infinity and what kind of weird shit can happen when 100 trillion years isn't .00000001% of one universes timelines, let alone infinite timelines

>>509106105
>You never asked why an all powerful creator would use a labor saving tool
it's an interesting question but i don't think it is entirely relevant either, everything that has been/will be, creation already happened and you're living through something which has already been perceived by God, that includes every snowflake which was already imagined before it appeared before your eyes.
i wish i could offer a better answer to your question but honestly i think you would get a different answer no matter who you ask. i could turn it around and ask why God WOULDN'T use a labor saving tool, even if God is all powerful, it seems like an objectively intelligent/efficient way to operate... if God is all powerful, all knowing, omnipotent, why would God choose to do things in a flawed manner?

>>509106460
>God created time.
>Also, there cannot be anything that existed *BEFORE* the existence of time.

Then how was there a God to create time, and how could he have done so without time passing

>>509106399
It is the only way I can come up with for God to self create.
If you have a better hypothesis, let's hear it.
Otherwise, I'm going to say mine is pretty darn good considering there are no alternatives I know of besides "God is magic" and "nuh uh no God"

>>509106470
>Missing the forest for the trees and not really worth debating.

This is cope. If such an obvious error doesn't count against it, nothing will and your mind isn't changeable no matter what.

>>509106528
>time
is gravity
an illusion
God doesn't exist within the bounds of time

>>509106580
The God I'm describing made every religion, primarily through implicit communication.
What the Bible calls the Holy Spirit.
It could be that to God has his own reasons for ordering things in that way that are esoteric and hidden, many things in the Bible are like this.
I could spend time coming up with arguments and you could spend time coming up with counter arguments but it's not relevant to how God came to be.

>>509106636
>God doesn't exist within the bounds of time

Proof?

>>509106577
Its not a horrible idea I wasn't saying that. I don't see how you could possibly demonstrably prove it. Maybe some day we will be smart enough to do some of the things God does.

>>509106636
he took 6 days to create the world

>>509106675
>It could be that to God has his own reasons for ordering things in that way that are esoteric and hidden, many things in the Bible are like this.

By all means let me know what was metaphorically communicated by getting the order wrong, which could not have been communicated with a correct order. At the risk of turning thinking people away from belief, by the way

>I could spend time coming up with arguments and you could spend time coming up with counter arguments but it's not relevant to how God came to be.

It is relevant to whether it's specifically Yahweh / had anything to do with authoring the Torah

>>509106693
do you accept the scientific fact that time operates differently depending on your location in the universe

>>509106693
God, if he exists has unquestionably made the Bible a major source of info about him.
In the Bible God's nature is described as always perfect and unchanging, an ever present I AM.
He goes so far to self describe in ways that break grammar to emphasize his AMness
>before Abraham was, I AM.

>>509106788

That's another claim, not proof.

>>509106781
yeah that's not what i'm arguing, but God existed before creation, which means that God existed before time

>>509106528
>God is the creator, is perfect, all loving, all just
>Creates the world and the heavens (including time) in a perfect manner (without spending time)

I don't know anon. Maybe if you took the time to think for 10 seconds you would have your answer.

>>509106787

Yes. Do you agree that stars predated planets, and land animals predated birds?

>>509106783
The Abrahamic God is the only God in mythology that matches the description of what would be necessary to create the world and everything in it without it getting silly
>corpses of giants etc
That being said the entire Bible might not have factually happened at all and it would still have value as an idea from God, like a giant parable.

>>509106867

Time is change. There's no change without time passing. You said nothing can exist before time. Logically that includes god.

>>509106845
God is Shrodinger's Cat.
You can believe there is no God and reality won't contradict you.
You can believe there is a God and reality won't contradict you.
God, if he exists, does not want it to be as simple as proving.
These are things we must feel for in the dark.

>>509106919
>The Abrahamic God is the only God in mythology that matches the description of what would be necessary to create the world and everything in it without it getting silly

I consider planets predating stars, and birds predating land animals to be silly. Do you not?

>corpses of giants etc

You mean photoshop hoaxes?

>That being said the entire Bible might not have factually happened at all and it would still have value as an idea from God, like a giant parable.

Then you have defined things in such a way that you cannot be wrong no matter what

>>509106980

That's another claim, not proof

>These are things we must feel for in the dark.

And pretend we have found them?

>>509104803 (OP)
Humans. God is the best idea of man’s meager mind to explain reality. Same goes with the “creator’s” attributes and wants, all inferences. No sane person believes man directly communicates with god, or ever did. If you find yourself with your back against the wall defending your idea of god then just hit them with “god works in mysterious ways” or “the problem of evil has already been solved” (lol lmao even).

>>509104803 (OP)
God exists outside of time and space. He's eternal.

>>509107044

Proof?

>>509107003
Again, the specifics of the mechanics of creation and the order things were created in is not necessarily as important to the message.
The message is what is important, not the factual history.
And yes, I am aware I can not be wrong, I want my beliefs to be right so I took great pains to ensure they were as right as possible while being a limited human.

Not this question again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain

>>509104803 (OP)
> God is eternal, self-creating and self-sustaining
lol copout

> The Universe is eternal, self-creating and self-sustaining
so true basedface.jpg

>>509107106
>Again, the specifics of the mechanics of creation and the order things were created in is not necessarily as important to the message.

It is important to the credibility of the source.

>And yes, I am aware I can not be wrong, I want my beliefs to be right so I took great pains to ensure they were as right as possible while being a limited human.

Anyone can purposely design unfalsifiable claims

>>509107153

Occam's razor

atheists are going to hell.

>>509107034
If you study the Bible, the world, mythology, etc it's clear something is going on.
Have you heard of Joseph Campbell's work?
Basically, summed up, it's this, all mythology and religion has commonalities.
Why?
Hypothesis, God made them all.
Does that match reality? Sure.
Which book best describes that God that made everything? The Bible imo.
We can't scientifically prove it and GOd doesn't want us to.
He wants us to experience these things.
How can I know?
Because God's will is manifested 1:1 in reality due to omnipotence.
What he wills is what is and that is how it works.

>>509107192
Circumcise yourself with Occam's razor and become one with the Jewniverse.

>>509107226

Christians will be uploaded to the Torment Nexus, a time dilated nightmare sim

>>509107164
Then do so in a way that perfectly comports with reality and the Bible and all religions on earth.
Because as far as I know, this is pretty rare.

>>509106947
I may not have formulated what I said well enough. Yes. What you say is true to a physical extent. But it doesn't apply metaphysically.

An entity who created EVERYTHING can create as he wills and is beyond any rule you give, and that includes your definition. Your definition may be true objectively, but He is beyond that. That's metaphysics for you. Questioning this will ultimately lead to dumb arguments like this one and will lead nowhere.

>>509107245
you are deranged

>>509107245
>If you study the Bible, the world, mythology, etc it's clear something is going on.

Yeah, a cult. I have studied the Bible, I was forced to in depth at two private Christian schools.

>Which book best describes that God that made everything? The Bible imo.

Except that planets don't predate stars and birds don't predate land animals. You are Johannes Kepler, in love with your beautiful model, unwilling to discard it when it doesn't match reality.

>We can't scientifically prove it and GOd doesn't want us to.

More cope, convenient

The concept of an all-powerful deity or deities is just an ignorant explanation of unknown and/or misunderstood natural phenomena.

>>509107310
>Then do so in a way that perfectly comports with reality and the Bible and all religions on earth.

You haven't done this, you have only claimed to. The religions in question make fundamentally contradictory claims.

>>509107400
Just a little faith and a whole lot of anecdotal evidence I won't waste your time with.

>>509107410
Again, the Bible could be entirely parable and still be true.
You're hung up on the details.

>>509107459
Yes, but for whom?
For the people that follow those religions.
If you were God would you not create various religions for different races and cultures at different points in history?

>>509104803 (OP)
Now I don't have all the answers like you guys who live with your folks all seem to think you do, but I never understood the atheist religion? I do not understand their word salad model of reality. it is illogical AF to be quiet frank.

lowest iq thread on /pol/ right now

>>509107635
Oh please, I just showed everyone how God could make himself and you're going to call the whole thread low iq without contributing anything of your own?

>>509107725
lowest iq post on /pol/ right now

>>509104803 (OP)
Nothing. God is and always was.

>>509107775
Only if I took you seriously.
An insult made without evidence or argument can be dismissed without evidence or argument.
Also, I'm free to enjoy you being dumber than me rather than try to correct you.
Which I'm currently doing.
I call it spiritual smugness.

>>509107549
This. Even when I was agnostic I used to think there was some deity who caused the big bang (I don't anymore, btw a Catholic Jesuit priest made up that theory)

The idea that there could be creation out of nothing is so fucking stupid it hurts my head.

Elohim

>>509106919
Except the Abrahamic god is very silly.

I find that the more poeple claim they studied the Bbible and religion, the less they actually know.

>>509108040
I understand why you think that and I can only offer anecdotes to refute you.
For me, the Bible has given me incredible spiritual gifts I would not trade for any amount of money. These include but are not limited to enlightenment and what the Buddhists call Nirvana.
However, I acknowledge I am a fringe case and you have no reason to believe me.

>>509108040
> the Abrahamic god
"Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am"

>>509104803 (OP)
Do NOT seek the TREASURE!

DO NOT SEEK THE TREASURE!!

>>509106095
What was your conclusion? I basically tried desperately to ignore it and go to sleep, which is a microcosm of what I thought God would do. I can't see any other solution. Staring into the abyss was not fun.

>>509105549
>disembodied magic omnipotent unintelligences
But enough about physical materialism. Midwits are astoundingly delusional
>perfect circles where the relationship between circumference and diameter isn't Pi
Taxicab geometry
>Married bachelor
Your father, because you're clearly a bastard
Don't investigate Ancient Egyptian Religion

>>509105253
>what would it be like to have always existed
It would be like being your own dad, right?

>>509110036
I don't think so, there would be no concept of Dad in the sense of something that came before you and begot you and existed separately from you. I'm happy to hear you flush it out though, because I am thoroughly confused. What really bothered me was the hypothetical that nothing was ever beyond your control, nothing surprised you, everything was known. The loneliness was indescribable.

>>509104803 (OP)
how long did he wait before creating this mess we live in

>>509104803 (OP)
we do, in the future.

>>509107226
Source: Jewish book

Still no answer.

"???" did