Thread 510088363

If God existed, why would he allow this?

>>510088363 (OP)
Why would God perform miracles for a thankless ape who refused to murder all the Jews?

>>510088363 (OP)
>caught in an industrial machine and/or exploded: China
>Hit by a train: India or Pakistan
>Body falling from the sky: Russia

That snow pile urinal.

>>510088363 (OP)
Probably because of the smell

Everyone that commits suicide is going straight to hell.

It's a le test!!!!
God is a sadistic teacher that like to throw random life destroying pop quizzes at you.

>>510088363 (OP)
God has a plan by killing the toddler and ruining this womans life. Trust the plan, goy.

he has a twisted sense of humor

>>510088363 (OP)
That baby was going to become Hitler 2.0

>>510088363 (OP)
>It's a non religious person believes that god acts like superman and flies in to save the day episode

>>510088363 (OP)
God doesn't give a shit about Russia

>>510088363 (OP)
Free will
Satan orchestrates around men of flesh who perform the banti Christ's deeds
Taking your own lift, which isn't even yours to take, is of the devil and separated from God
When you separate from God and work with the devil, he will orchestrate it into even more suffering and pain
Stupid dick holding atheists that aren't familiar with the touch of a woman love to try and counter this with, "das gay" and "Christcuck", but evidentially, it is irrefutable.

>. . .

>>510088701

>>510088974
>>510088893
fucking jews man

>>510088363 (OP)
its dey culchah

>>510088363 (OP)
being born russian is a cruel and unusual punishment by the gods yes

>>510088363 (OP)
This is horrible. Here’s a webm to cheer you up.

>>510088659
This video is fake. Stop spreading it.

>>510089073
Correct
Blame the people that killed Gods prophets and killed our saviour to eternally salvation
Don't hate God. Hate the people that proactively want you to suffer. Non denominational servants of Christ will love you regardless of your hatred for them.
No, your alcoholic father and mother were not Christians and those who hurt you in the name of the lord will suffer in hell for eternity.

>>510088363 (OP)
Damn, double homicide.

>>510088569
>shot by a nigger: USA
>stabbed by a sandnigger: UK/Germany
>raped to death: Sweden

>>510088363 (OP)
Which god?

>>510088363 (OP)
kek did he aim for that on the way down you think?

>>510089276
>This video is fake.
shut the fuck up, memeflag

>>510088659
How is it suicide if you're trapped and about to be burned alive?

>>510088659
suicide is not a sin, literal gaynigger myth

>>510088363 (OP)
Kike was only going to grow up Russian; the lord is most merciful.

>>510089436
>Nip defending suicide

Lol

>>510089460
>Kid

Sorry, jews on the brain I guess.

>>510089388
It’s fake. Btw the scale of those people is completely wrong they’re 15 feet tall.

>>510088363 (OP)
why not?
it's kinda funny desu

>>510089508
Nope. Meds now.

>>510088363 (OP)
God is a man of war.

>not my problem, mortals!!
>that bitch shouldn't have ate my fruit!

>>510088363 (OP)
India exists so we know for a fact god doesnt, because he 100% decided to an hero when he saw what they did with the place.

you do realize he wasn't suciding but the CIA is regularly defenestrating innocent russians?

>>510088363 (OP)
God would be a sick fuck indeed bros

>>510089551
>>510089608

>Having an opinion on something you seethe about yet have not read
That's very white behavior of you

What if God just hates roasties?

>>510088363 (OP)
Free will. You do know that Lucifer rebelled when given the chance to do so, right?

You would bitch EITHER WAY (free will vs forced belief) because you are a coward to make this thread.

>>510089508
Each of those segmented panels in the corners that make up part of the facade were 2.44 meters in length, and 1.02 meters in width (per corner face)

>>510089693
Tell the sinners my nigga in Christ

>>510089508
Stfu memeflag.

>>510089678
Shhh memeflag the bots are talking.

>>510089238
man do you not get sad when you see this? I can't get myself to laugh at suicide videos even though I've seen a lot of fucked up shit over the years

>>510089074
It's Kiev.

>>510088569
Pretty sure this was Toronto and the text was added later.

jesus christ

>>510088363 (OP)
that pedo was really horny

>>510088769
Thank you, Yeshua!

>>510089777
I used to not be like this. I actually used to like Indians but the way they mock dead babies in Palestine has made me hate them as much as kikes. I hate them all with a passion.

>>510088974
Then your faggot jewish god is not all powerful or all knowing.

>>510088974
having a stroke bot-kun?

>>510088363 (OP)
>The way she holds her baby and looks down at its facewhile sobbing and falling to her knees
I think I'm gonna hug my kids a little bit extra tonight...

>>510088659
The Bible never says all suicides go to Hell. It is assumed they do because it is considered self-murder. However many suicides are cowardly, and cowardice will send you to Hell. I don't believe all suicides go to Hell. I think Christ judges them case by case.

>>510088659
No one cares what your jew religion says here chrigger

>>510088363 (OP)
he works in mysterious ways. its all part of his plan

>>510088363 (OP)
dont ask christniggers hard questions, they can barely function as zogbot zionist tools much less handle theosophical hard topics like why their magical sky demon lets innocent people die

>>510088363 (OP)
>kike fag flag
>Emotional trauma based overt manipulation using the exact same mechanics used by big media kikes in the 24/7 news cycle
>"Why would God allow this?"
This is why I despise you fucking kikes
I recognize the muslims as a barbaric repressive head chopping 7th century death cult that is very much a real existential threat to humanity
I recognize the jeets and chinks as threats as existential as the muslims, but in their own unique way
But you fucking kikes... you need to be hunted to extinction
Really
You are the satanic made manifest on this Earth
Physical threats like the jeets, muslims, chinks - they can be kept at a distance and managed
But you need to be removed. Forever.

>>510089678
I read the holly babble, it's retarded

>>510088363 (OP)
>If God existed, why would he allow this?

Here is what <80 IQ nihilists don't understand about religion.

Per usual the nihilist thinks the reality itself is a relationship between 'them' and 'everything else', thus they think religion is something between 'person' and 'God'.

Religion is a relationship between 'community' and 'God'. Nooootice how the rules are about how a community handles itself. You shall not steal, you shall not goon.

We live in a world where men are treated like disposable garbage, a spend gap favors women excessively, and STILL women complain about a hypothetical wage gap (that truly just means men work more and in more dangerous jobs) But still women got their gender quotas, their HR and fake tax funded job positions that produce nothing.
And that frees them, to ride the cock carousel 24/7 365 days a year, while men rot in their risky, stinky, unsightly manual labor positions, on their 6th year of dry spell.

Women reaction? "Have sex, incel." as a coup de grâce. Because somehow their make up or their fake money they got from the fake economy puts them above the men that acts as true cogs of the machine that keeps the greasy engine running.

So when one guy jumps into the abyss, all we see is his selfishness. But it takes a keen eye to SEE the hand that pushed him.

>>510090575
So you don't actually have an answer and when forced to admit the fact that "no, this can't be the work of a loving God" you get aggressive.

>>510088363 (OP)
because your understanding of God is flawed.

Isaiah 45:7

pain is part of the game bro

>>510089608
>god creates a race of retarded sub-people genetically predisposed to sinning due to their undeveloped frontal lobes and many other reasons
did indians and niggers eat more of the bad fruit or something

>>510090573
this is true - most christians don't even read the scriptures.

God does not exist in Mongolia. Simple.

>>510088769
God has..
Your anthropomorphizing the infinite context.
In order to do or have or be the subject of a verb one would be subordinate to the potential for ones own existence and thus become limited and not God.
Even our language and thoughts are dualistic, subject verb.

>>510088363 (OP)

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=theodicy

>>510090869
I refuse to accept the framing that the kike using overt manipulation tactics is putting out there.
You don't know who Edward Bernays was, do you?
Game theory? Narrative crafting? What even is the trauma based news cycle intended to make you dance like an organ grinder monkey?
Show something that most of your target audience will find emotionally upsetting, then when they are upset have them transfer that anger and negative emotion to your real target.
In this case, the goal is to get people to abandon religion.
The kike in question stands to benefit if people abandon Christianity - such is their unhinged hatred. Which is why it is framed the way it is.
They know their target audience psychologically better than the audience knows themselves - they have consultants on payroll who do nothing but create these things designed to manipulate you.
You can't see that, or you are supporting their efforts.
It's not "you don't have an answer".
It's I refuse to engage in their fuckery and instead call out what they are doing.

>>510091104
nor india apparently. he just turned a whole blind eye to that region

>>510090854
how did you go from the existence of god to women and age gap? hahahahahha get a whore loser

>>510088659
True, but I don’t think those counted as suicides. They were about to be burned to death…

the laws of physics are the laws of god

>>510088363 (OP)
This is the saddest video I ever seen. So sorry for mom

>>510090535
golem logic

>>510088363 (OP)
He thinks its funny.

>>510088363 (OP)
God hates Russians even more than the rest of us do.

>>510088363 (OP)
God doesn't interfere with our lives.

>>510089508
>>510089276
>it's fake!!!
There's multiple photos and angles of that group of jumpers, they all decided end it because fire reached their office, one of them was sending pager messages to a co-worker.

>>510089693
Oh okay so I have to have free will and I'm not allowed to trade it for a world where good people are protected from life ruining freak accidents that kill their children

>>510091626
Good insight.
They do think this funny.
They don't even consider us to be actual humans
It's so cynical it's almost nauseating
You want to see true evil, well, there it is: OP kike hiding behind a fag flag and exploiting the tragic death of an infant in order to manipulate Whites into abandoning God entirely.

>>510088363 (OP)
If big bang existed, why would he allow this?

>>510091523
>feeling bad for muscovites
lmao

>>510089693
>Free will
Does God know what you'll eat for dinner tomorrow?

>>510092007
You're an idiot

>>510091873
No, free will exists to choose to believe in God.
Murder, like many other sins exist because of sin because Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge which they were forbidden to do.
This is all the fault of Lucifer. Lucifer wants to deceive as many people as possible to be against God so that he isn't alone when cast into the lake of fire and obliterated from all existence.

>>510092085
God knows all possible options, yes. You're assuming the person who created an atlas doesn't know all the possible routes.

>>510089693
>Free will
Doesn't exist when you have an omnipotent and omniscient God that has a will who supercedes yours

>>510089768
Non rebuttal responses will be lumped in with brown opinions

>if God then why suffering!?
>makes people capable of compassion and altruism who can help their fellow man
>not like that!

>>510092096
>free will exists to choose to believe in God.
And what happens if I choose not to believe in your God?

>>510088431
This

>>510091944
okay but, why did God allow it to happen?
there are countless mundane things God could have made happen to prevent that horrible timing of her infant being in that exact place and moment where it was crushed to death in front of its mother

oh wait, we're talking about this same God who has this in their "Holy" book

"Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks"

>>510092181
>God knows all possible options, yes. You're assuming the person who created an atlas doesn't know all the possible routes
You didn't answer my question. Does God know what you'll eat for dinner tomorrow?

Out of all the infinite options awaiting you tomorrow, does he know which option you'll select for dinner?

>>510088363 (OP)
You mean why did god smite baby Hitler mark 2?

>>510089921
Do not let them weaponize your altruism against you.

>>510088363 (OP)
>If God existed, why would he allow this?
This was answered 2000 years ago

>>510090250
Anon... You are engaging in jewspeak

>>510092256
Then that is proof you have free will. You can live on this earth like everyone else. All of us will die but those who believe in God and accept Jesus Christ will be saved from eternal death.
>>510092185
God's will will always be done. However, God has and can change his mind about things through prayer.
>>510092314
I absolutely did answer you. You can claim "You didn't answer my question" when I did infact answer. I answered you directly and provided an example to equate your hypothetical.

>>510092306
You are not going to get me to entertain the narrative that OP kike has created.
It is not going to happen.
I lay out exactly what is going on, how these kike filth are manipulating people and your response is:
>Well okay all that's true BUT let's accept their framing
Meaning you're one of them and you see your narrative slipping away - you are not in control of this.
I reiterate: you filth need to be hunted to extinction.

>>510088363 (OP)
If you weren't such a stupid kike maybe you'd understand what God is about. We are the ones with free will, and what we choose to do with it is of our own consequence, not God's decisions with our lives. If you choose to give your life to him and pray for forgiveness and salvation, you will then see that the good or bad things that happen to you in life become irrelevant, like in nature. They simply make you grow in wisdom from experience. Whether that mother of the dead child believed in God or not does not matter. There is no one to blame except kikes for the state of affairs most of our lives are in anyways.

Old but gold
https://youtu.be/RB3g6mXLEKk

>>510092512
>Then that is proof you have free will.
You didn't answer the question

>>510092512
>God's will will always be done
>God can change his mind
Which proves you don't have free will of god can call an audible and change anything at anytime

>>510090854
>jewish gods are required to understand murder is le bad

>So when one guy jumps into the abyss, all we see is his selfishness
Its one thing to kys. It's another to make it everyone else's problem. It's yet another thing kill a fucking baby on your way out.

idk why the faggot in OP's video killed himself. I just wish I could resurrect him and murder him slowly myself for his heinous actions.

>>510092512
>accept Jesus Christ will be saved from eternal death.
I use my free will to avoid both Jesus Christ and eternal death

>>510088363 (OP)
She probably made fun of suicide victims in highschool

>>510088363 (OP)
LMAO

>>510092512
>I absolutely did answer you. You can claim "You didn't answer my question" when I did infact answer. I answered you directly and provided an example to equate your hypothetical
More question dodging from a cowardly Christian

I asked if God knows what you'll eat for dinner tomorrow, and you said
>God knows all possible options, yes
That's not what I asked you

I asked if he knows what you'll eat or not. Out of the infinity of time and space you will eat (or not eat) a meal tomorrow night for dinner. Does he know what that particular meal will be?

The fact that Christians can't answer this extremely simple question without dishonesty is remarkable

>>510092558
>We are the ones with free will
Nope

>>510088363 (OP)
Ave, María, grátia plena,
Dóminus tecum.
Benedicta tu in muliéribus,
et benedíctus fructus ventris
tui, Iesus.
Sancta María, Mater Dei,
ora pro nobis peccatoribus
nunc et in hora mortis nostrae.
Amen.

>>510091761
I can accept that. I cannot accept a jewish religious framework.

>>510092858
>Lol nope
Retard

>ignores the existence of hell
Okay.

>>510092925
>boohoo
Lol

>>510092885
it's been the european white religious framework for almost 2 millennia

>>510088363 (OP)
What we call God is life and consciousness struggling to be against chaos and entropy. All living things are just a branch, an extension of this primordial creative consciousness. Abrahamic religions have infected people with the idea that the creator ought to be omnipotent to be worthy of love and worship, when that's actually really some cuck shit born of rerarded desert shitskins who only understand force and violence when you think about it. Worshiping an entity because it is powerful and you're afraid of what it will do to you if you don't is the height of cowardice. Whereas loving the Creator that gave you life the same way you love your parents and ancestors is based. The truth is that the creator has no more power over his creation than a parent has over grown children. We either further his purpose of continuing to give rise to higher and more complex forms of life or we don't. We share in his life and in conscious awareness. It's on us to make things better, and incrementally we have. There's just a lot more work to do.

>>510088363 (OP)
The kid might not be dead, but if they are alive, they are badly injured. Certainly has permanent brain damage. Possibly alive if they received immediate treatment.

The suicide guy is definitely dead.

>>510092925
>we have free will
>but the kikes cause all my problems
You are the retard

>>510088363 (OP)
Trust the plan ;)

>>510088363 (OP)
Bitch tried to cross the road where there's no crosswalk, entirely her fault. Terrible mother.

>>510092096
You said God allows the OP because of free will. Now you say free will exists for God's belief game.

Everything happens for a reason, in this case it's the loosh produced by the mom. Bob monroe clearly explained that one of the biggest emanations of loosh in the early stages of this farm was from a mom trying to protect its newly born babies. He also explains thats why a lot of animals have ways of attack that prolong the suffering.Monroe wrote that our creators intentionally equipped animals with fangs and claws in order to prolong predator-prey combat and produce more loosh.
This isn't meant to depress you, instead you should focus on never reincarnating here, realizing that this is the worst existence will ever be is liberating.

>>510093033
You have no argument dumbass. You replied to me twice because you're ragebaiting and deflecting the real problem.

>>510092704
>>510092768
Free will is the ability to chose to believe in God or not. Who is forcing you to believe in Him?
If you don't wash your dishes and no one is required to make you wash dishes the only person you can be mad at is yourself when you have no dishes.

I'm sorry your misunderstanding has led you to think that God isn't able to change His mind based on prayers. God gives you the ability to believe in Him or turn your heart from Him. That is free will and exactly what I said in my first post.

>>510092833
No, you don't like the answer given because it doesn't allow you to keep Christians who answer you directly in a box to not be able to argue out of. This is exactly what the Pharisees did to Jesus Christ about His teachings vs their perception of God's law. Stop pretending you know anything about Christianity and God's law.

>>510092096
Wow, if only your omnipotent god could've seen that coming and just not made satan in the first place. Seems kinda bullshit god would shit test us in the garden of eden when we were basically adult infants at that time. You need to just face the fact that your "god" yhwh is actually a child devouring demon. If you read the bible at all, you'd notice how often yhwh just loves dead kids. He can't get enough of them. You worship a demon.

>>510088363 (OP)
>“What earthly sweetness remaineth unmixed with sorrow? What glory on earth continueth unchanged? All things are more feeble than shadows, all things are more deceptive than dreams; yet one moment, and Death shall take away them all.”

>>510093003
Kids dead.
t. russian news reader

>>510092833
>does God know what you're gonna eat for dinner tomorrow
i'll play
the answer from my view (molinism) is yes

>>510092547
>you're one of them
nigger I was a door to door soulwinning christian for over a decade before I stepped away from the faith

but continue to dodge the fucking question you paranoid faggot

>>510093157
But seriously, kike lover. Does your all seeing god know the specific meal you will eat for dinner tonight before you do?

>>510088363 (OP)
free will is the root cause of all good and evil in the world
doesn't reflect bad on God,it reflects bad on us.
also random chance is absolutely part of the human experience and there's no way of getting around it.

>>510093157
>No, you don't like the answer given because it doesn't allow you to keep Christians who answer you directly in a box to not be able to argue out of
You didn't answer my question. It's incredibly simple and yet you'll pilpul all day long about your dishonest question dodging

Look I made a chart here to explain this. Which option is it? Left or right

God is either omniscient or not, it's that simple

>>510092833
The thing is "God" as an entity lives in a plane of existence above ours. He can see the multitude of all options and outcomes we have and can choose. So in essence: yes God does know what we will eat for dinner because he knows every possible option and outcome. God's "divine prophecy" then can guide you towards the best option through prayer because we cannot see outcomes of the options in front of us.
The problem you have with Christians is they can't articulate this because most of them are quite frankly idiots who can't intuit the reasoning from dogma. There are many church fathers who thought through these questions but you won't hear about them from your average church speaker.

>>510088363 (OP)
This is the webm that destroy "freewill".

>>510088363 (OP)
god exists but "IT" doesnt give a fuck. thats why satanism is the way. only humans know good

>>510088852
>Superman is good because he uses his powers to save lives.
>God doesn't but is somehow still good.

>>510088363 (OP)
There's a special place in hell for the jumper, that's for fucking sure.

>>510088431
Imagine the blessings
Ancestors fumbled the ball but these generation is that of redemption

>>510091005
>Quoting the kike part of the bible
Yeah bro, job's little kids deserved to die so god could win a bet with satan whose opinion shouldn't matter at all to him. It's all part of his plan (to win bets against the devil).

>>510088974
Are you the weirdo faggot that thinks he was chosen by god? If so, nobody here should bother with you

>>510089363
>being born b*lgarian

>>510088363 (OP)
That baby must have had some bad karma

>>510092883
>bluh bluh latin text bluh
>cryptic reference ends with a shoutout to the egyptian sun god
lmao christniggers are so dumb

>>510093447
>Being retarded and not understanding the connection with God is a privilege and not a right
Lol cuz the devil doesn't do anything bad right?

>>510093403
For someone who keeps changing their IP, I find it hilarious that you would call anyone a coward.

>>510089693
>The baby chose to die, you stupid atheist.

>>510093403
>Does God know what you'll eat for dinner
>Yes
>then it was predetermined
'fraid not.
you're confusing foreknowledge with predetermination.
God knows what you'll eat for dinner because He has middle knowledge, He knows what you WOULD FREELY CHOOSE in any given circumstance, but that doesn't mean he CAUSED or PREDETERMINED your choice. you still made it freely.

before creating the world, God knew "if you were hungry at 6PM and had leftover pizza in the fridge, you'd freely choose to eat it."
so He actualized a world where that scenario plays out, but the choice was still from your own volition.

foreknowledge is like watching a movie you've already seen, you know what happens but you didn't force teh characters to act.
predetermination would be writing the script and programming the actors to follow it without deviation.

so a molinist would say "yes, God knows what you'll eat, but you're still the one choosing it." the knowledge is LOGICALLY PRIOR but not CAUSUALLY DETERMINING.

>>510093578
weak bait

>>510092558
>god allows you to live like an automaton and use him like a crutch instead of getting righteously angry at what happens
Christianity is, once again, proven to be a religion created by kikes to keep the descendants of amalek docile.

>>510093540
Lol huddle up with the Muslims then and enjoy fucking donkeys and kids, faggot. You not doing anything is also a sin, so me speaking on thee evils of the world and you saying "it isn't real" literally does nothing to me but bolster my faith.
You are of the anti Christ
Check out the gospel of Mark, you'll be gnashing teeth in hell

>>510092243
>be compassionate and altruistic father or mother
>your earthly experience does not change at all and your child may be suddenly killed by people or cancer or disease anyway
>this inflicts life-ruining trauma and PTSD that impinges on free will
Wow thanks benevolent God!

>>510093675
Protip: Death happens to all of us. Do you think being a Christian stops that? We all will die of this life. Christians who accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior will avoid 2nd death and the lake of fire.

>>510093695
bait? it's literally historical fact

why are christgolem blind to history?

>>510090575
>can't give a good answer, just seethes instead.

>>510088363 (OP)
the baby is still dead if there is no god.

>>510088363 (OP)
I think the baby survived, it didn't get hit directly.

>>510088363 (OP)
>typical rusbot when he learns that Trump is still retarded but not in a way that helps Ziggistan win the war.

>>510093132
>You have no argument dumbass
Just pointing out your moronic contradiction

>>510093157
>Free will is the ability to chose to believe in God or not
And I use my free will to not believe in your opinions about God

>>510089436
Pretty sure every form of suicide is made to escape suffering.

>>510093256
What caused you to step away from it? For me it was the story of job. A god that would do that isn't a god I'm going to worship.

>>510090854
>Look at this shiny distraction, you will now forget your original question.

>>510088363 (OP)
That was some seriously bad luck, R.I.P. little baby.

>>510093578
>latin text
>sun god

pedicabo ego te et irrumabo, anon pathiche.

t. thoth or something

>>510091104
>>510092063
Go back to the frontline Ukrainian subhuman

>>510093245
>the answer from my view (molinism) is yes
Then it was predetermined. If God knows your upcoming meal then not one force in the universe is capable of changing that outcome

>>510093407
>He can see the multitude of all options and outcomes we have and can choose. So in essence: yes God does know what we will eat for dinner because he knows every possible option and outcome
This is just a shallow obfuscation. You're saying that God knows all possible options you'll pick [but he DOESN'T KNOW which option that will be]

All of the infinite options are irrelevant because you will choose one single option. God knows which option you'll choose, or he doesn't

Adding that he knows infinity [but not which of the infinity] isn't helpful. You could simply say "no" and be much more direct about it

>>510093650
>For someone who keeps changing their IP, I find it hilarious that you would call anyone a coward
Ad hominem. More question dodging. I'm on a cellphone and my IP changes sometimes, deal with it coward

>>510093694
>foreknowledge is like watching a movie you've already seen, you know what happens but you didn't force teh characters to act
God isn't a mere viewer of the film though. He is the director, the producer, the caster. In this regard he's more of an author than director given that he is the Creator of all things

God is the Prime Mover. The fact that he initiated all chains of causality with full foreknowledge of all that would ever occur in his creation, means that he is the direct cause of all events that ever occur

If God didn't want something to happen he could have prevented it with the barest portion of his will because starting causality, yet he signed off on this universe, approving of all events that would ever occur, knowingly and willingly

>>510093998
your fish cult is in its infancy, anon. when we delve deep down into amenti, your faith will really be broken.

soon

>>510092833
I haven't had breakfast yet

Death to Ukraine and Ukrainian subanimals

>>510093694
>He actualized a world where that scenario plays out
Still kinda sounds like he's pulling the strings. If he wanted you to eat a sandwich, he'd put those ingredients in your fridge too? So why did he actualize a world where that infant is getting crushed to death? He put that infant in that spot he knew the man was going to jump. He actualized that world, according to you.

>>510093744
>I can't address your point, so I going to try and drag you off into a tangent until you forget about it.

>>510093241
Unfortunate. The suicide dive-bomber probably landed directly on the kid's head, then. I don't think that kind of impact would immediately kill, otherwise.

>>510094059
>If God didn't want something to happen he could have prevented it with the barest portion of his will because starting causality, yet he signed off on this universe, approving of all events that would ever occur, knowingly and willingly
>left without an answer to his desperate prayer, anon proceeds to answer for his absent god

lmao

>>510088363 (OP)
>I can guarantee access
>I cannot guarantee safety
One day you'll understand, and things will get easier.
Or you won't, and bad things will always happen, causing you to scream at the sky in angry confusion for some reason.

>>510093739
k. Not wasting my time.

>>510093743
>Wow thanks benevolent God!
You were told God was benevolent by whom? God himself? Or dudes with agendas?
That's what I thought.

>>510088363 (OP)
To make faggots ask time wasting questions on the internet, of course.

>>510088363 (OP)
Shouldn't have said the n word

>>510088769
HALLELUJAH!

>>510094223
Yahweh is a caananite warrior storm god. The caananite gods are known to be generally cruel.

>>510094119
Yes it absolutely would. The g-forces applied to the baby when it got struck would be plenty to kill it even if it wasn't a direct hit.

>>510094223
Do you worship a god that is indifferent to you?

>>510089885
not america, those car plates are too wide

>>510090104
nothing wrong about that. it's about all loving

>>510093802
the baby is dead even with god looking, not doing anything at all lol that seems worse

>>510094459
Did god love job's family when he murdered them to prove a point?

>>510094070
my fish cult brings all the boys to the yard and theyre like, its better than yours. damn right, its better than yours.

>>510093694
>God knew "if you were hungry at 6PM and had leftover pizza in the fridge, you'd freely choose to eat it."
>if you were hungry
Okay so it's my hormones that are making my free choices for me. Thanks for figuring this out!

>>510094059
yes, God is the Creator and Prime Mover. But under molinism, God's creative act includes free creatures whose choices are not causally determined by Him.
God's middle knowledge allows Him to know what any free creature WOULD do in any circumstances, without causing those choices.
so when God "signs off" on a world, He's choosing one where FREE AGENTS act in ways that fulfill His purposes, even if some of those choices involve evil.

knowing what will happen doesn't mean CAUSING it to happen.
molinism argues that God's foreknowledge is logically prior, not causally effective.
He knows what will happen because He knows what free creatures would do, not because He forces them to do it.

the claim that God "approved of all events" is nuanced in molinism,
God permits evil ONLY IF IT'S NECESSARY for a greater good (example: redemption, love, freedom)
permitting isn't the same as endorsing. Just as a parent might allow a child to make a mistake to learn from it, God allows freedom even when it leads to suffering.

God isn't just watching the movie, He's more like a cosmic editor who selects which story to publish from massive library of possible worlds.
the characters still lwrite their own lines, but God chooses the version where His goals are achieved through their free choices.

this entire back and forth hinges on whether foreknowledge entails causal responsibility, and the entire framework of molinism if built around the answer being "no."

>>510094545
brown hands typed this post

>>510094153
lol you're crazy

>ill grant that baby access... BUT NOT SAFETY THO BRO, SUCKS TO SUCKS YOU GOT KILLED BY SOME RANDOM FAGGOT, I'M GOD!!! BY THE WAY I'M FUCKING GOD!!!

>>510088659
It literally doesn't say that anywhere in the Bible. It is just completely made up fanfiction by later writers, on flimsy and vague grounds like 'thou shall not kill' .

>>510088363 (OP)
>allow
that's not allowance, that's CRAFTSMANSHIP, bitch.

>>510088363 (OP)
The baby was Jewish

>>510094498
yeah, but all youre going to do with that existential horror is use it to say fags can get married and that jacking off is ok.

whether god exists or doesnt, uncle billy still forced you to burn all your pokemon cards, and thats worse than any dead baby in russia.

>>510088431
because you're a murderer.

well, not you. for you it is only desire.
meaning, you desire violence but unable to execute it. essentially you're a cowardly cuck, obsessed with jews, passing through your "life" hating and idling.

moshe fucked you so bad ahmad.

look how buck broken you are. pathetic.

>>510094185
Lol because you have nothing to respond with due to you knowing your sin and ignorance will damn you, good for you bubby

>>510094753
the mother voted for shitty immigrants who subsequently fall from the sky

>>510094782
look bitch, its the jews

>>510094758
fags can get married it ain't your business and jacking off is okay because it's also ain't your business lol

>>510092992
>communism is white because its subjects in Russia were white

Both were created by jews and serve the same ends. We iz all equal n sheeit

>>510094639
But the fact that god knows the exact way everything is going to play out despite one small deviation changing the entire model proves everything is predestined. How can it be our choice when it has to play out exactly the way god knows it will? How can there be free will when one small change will change everything? If we truly had free will, god shouldn't be about to know what's about to happen but you say he does. You keep saying he knows all the ways it could play out but does he know the single way in which it will?

>>510094639
Tl;dr: a whole bunch of crap you pulled from your anus.
>inb4 u don gettit cuz u dum!

>>510088363 (OP)
If God intervened in every matter on behalf of humans, Earth would be Heaven and all of this would be completely meaningless. This argument is easily the dumbest thought any person has ever had.

>>510094855
lol

>>510088431
>>510088801
>>510088974
Middle Eastern "thought" has no answer to this. The Greeks and others used the concept of reincarnation and karma to understand that the universe is used to reward and punish souls according to their past actions, to train AI model beings.

And Christianity is nonsense. Christians believe that a middle easterner from 2000 years ago will reappear one day, bring the dead back to life, and set up a utopian heaven-on-earth for a period of time. There might be problems with other religions, but they don't believe anything as retarded as that.

>>510094639
>knowing what will happen doesn't mean CAUSING it to happen.
Everything done is according to the will of your God. That's the price of also being omnipotent
>>510094639
>He knows what will happen because He knows what free creatures would do
And being omniscient means God already knows all choices you'll make and being omnipotent means he's designed every cause and consequences for said choices

>>510088363 (OP)
She chose that faith by taking the turn

>>510094965
Heaven is meaningless?

>>510088363 (OP)
If he intervenes and saves them its only fair to intervene for everyone and every bad thing, at that point we're back in eden

>>510094965
What exactly is the meaning? Why can't we just have heaven? Why does god need to shit test us constantly?

>>510088363 (OP)
ah fuck. if god existed, why do i gotta get doodoo on my fingers.

>>510095125
And?

>>510095081
"Heaven" is a semitic fantasy for the LOW IQ retards to line up and feel rewarded for being a stupid animal their entire life.

>>510095161
>A baby being killed through no faukt of its own and me running out of tp are basically the same.

>>510088659
There is something so beautiful about this. The last fall.
The cross over.

>>510088363 (OP)
kwab

>>510095125
Yeah, thanks god for intervening and creating the snake to tempt us and take advantage of our naivety. You're the best god.

>>510094934
yes, molinism affirms that God knows with certainty what will happen in the actual world.
this is called "free knowledge" within the system. God's knowledge of the actual future, based on his decision to create this specific world.
but!!
KNOWING what will happen is not the same as CAUSING it to happen.

you're right that one small change could ripple through the entire model, molinism says God know ALL the ripple effects of EVERY POSSIBLE CHOICE before creating the world. He chose to actualize teh world where YOUR FREE CHOICES lead to the outcomes He desires.
so yes, the model is precise, but it's precise because God accounted for your freedom, not in spite of it.

foreknowledge is epistemic, not causal. God knows what you'll choose, but again, that doesn't mean He forces your hand.
think of it like a perfect chess analyst who knows every move you'll make, but you're still the one moving the pieces.

before God created He knew:
>what you COULD do (natural knowledge)
>what you WOULD do in any scenario (middle knowledge)
then
>He chose to create teh world where you freely make those choices (free knowledge)
so yes, God knows the single way it will play out, but that single way is shaped by YOUR FREE DECISIONS, not overridden by divine fiat.

>>510088659
Into the hazy fog we go.
Falling, from above, to below.
From heaven, to hell.
The fall from grace. The transition.

I swear low IQ normies have zero awareness of their surroundings. This was for the best

>>510093915
two things
discovered a deacon had drunkenly raped his daughter decades ago and was still being allowed near children
when I brought it up with pastor he practically hand waved it away saying it was so long ago it didn't matter now

second, Job did it for me too
for years and years I assured myself that God was in the right but the lingering doubts just grew over time until I couldn't accept the textbook answers I was being given

>>510088659
The painful truth
The final awakening

>>510095297
>KNOWING what will happen is not the same as CAUSING it to happen.
It is when you're an all knowing and all powerful being who creates life

>>510095297
>accounted for your freedom
Uhhh....

>>510088363 (OP)
LIL CRAKKA SHUDUNTOV SAID THE N WORD

>>510095297
>so yes, God knows the single way it will play out, but that single way is shaped by YOUR FREE DECISIONS, not overridden by divine fiat.
But it is overridden when I use my free decisions to not follow your God as he would send me to hell for it

>>510095172
>>510095286
We were in Eden, God gave us the greatest gifts of all, intelligence and free will. We blew it and couldnt follow simple directions. So we are here now, to learn what life is like outside Eden. Stop being angsty little faggots, the way you type is annoying. Are you mad mom still makes you go to church on Sunday? Mad you cant sleep in until 2pm after a night of masturbating?

Aw thats sweet, rip little guy

>>510095371
Ugh, yeah, the child sexual abuse by clergy is a pretty good fucking reason too.

>>510095473
You'll never be black, Shaun.

>>510095525
>consequences of exercising my will remove my faculty of will
your posts are always so stupid, ghost of mesa

>>510094418
I don't think so. Babies are very resilient to concussive forces. The liver, spleen, or most likely lungs would be ruptured by the sudden impact, but that wouldn't cause immediate death. Unless, of course, the force is directly applied to the head or neck -- which I assume it was.

I'm trying to say that this is not impossible to survive, but it is essentially the end of that baby's life either way.

>>510088431
Unfathomably based and true

>>510094965
>If God intervened in every matter on behalf of humans
He supposedly already did when he flooded the Earth.

Also, you don't need to spawncamp babies to make life meaningful.

>>510095560
>We were in Eden, God gave us the greatest gifts of all, intelligence
Do you even read your own bible? We only gained knowledge after we were kicked out. It was literally called the tree of knowledge and we weren't allowed to eat it.

>>510095560
>the baby deserved to die because of something its ancestors did.
Also, resorting to insults proves that you're losing.

>>510088363 (OP)
Can you fucking jews stop with your fake filmed bullshit? The baby mannequin isn't even moving!!!

>>510095264
i mean....yeah. if gods all infinite and allpowerful and shit, both irritants would have similar weight.

he doesnt wipe your ass for you, so hes not going to save the baby.

but anyway, once you convince everyone theres no god, youll try and get abortion legalized and we end up with more dead babies anyway.

>>510095418
>Uhhh....
that's really all you got?
you were kinda fun to engage, try harder.

>>510095621
>>consequences of exercising my will remove my faculty of will
It means your will was caused and bit freely happened upon

Like you responding to me. I created that

>>510094767
Shut up, Argentina. ;) You can't kill 1 measly politician. Go back to Venezuela farming my Runescape gold.

>>510088363 (OP)
Because you use a memeflag

>>510089551
>that bitch shouldn't have ate my fruit!
Yes
That fucking whore all that had to do was listen

>>510095790
>bit
Not*

>>510095631
The baby hits the ground at the guy's speed. Look how fast he was thrown to the ground.

>>510095125
>If he intervenes and saves them its only fair to intervene for everyone and every bad thing
That does not logically follow. It's fair that bad things still happen to bad people.

>>510095297
>here's how I can have my cake and eat it too.

>>510093552
a terrible fate

>>510095584
the fucking wild and bizarre thing too was he literally casually announced it during an evening service on fucking mother's day of all days
he flunked a fucking background check for a job over it and was complaining how nobody was giving him a chance at work
i stood there stunned listening to this man I knew for years, that ive gone soulwinning with that it was 'unfair' over something he did so long ago like he'd stolen a fucking candybar or something mundane

>>510088363 (OP)
LOL at those NPCs walking around idly and not sprinting to help the woman. The West is fucked.

>>510095779
Because it's so mouth breathing retarded that's all the response it needs. Just repeat the words over and over until you understand how stupid it is.
>Accounted for your freedom

>>510088363 (OP)
>no one came to help

typical russia

>>510091023
it must have been a watermelon then

>>510090854
Chud is right
Chud I talked to ai about the future
Handmaid's tale will become a joke to the true horrors that awaits them

>>510095297
>KNOWING what will happen is not the same as CAUSING it to happen
God is literally the cause of everything, the first cause. Everything else follows his decision to create reality, and therefore is a consequence of his action

>He chose to actualize teh world where YOUR FREE CHOICES lead to the outcomes He desires
It's not really a choice if it was predetermined an infinity ago. It's merely the illusion of choice

>think of it like a perfect chess analyst who knows every move you'll make, but you're still the one moving the pieces
It's more like a man creating chess, creating his opponent from scratch, creating the components of his opponent from scratch, programming his opponent, and knowing exactly what his opponent will do because he programmed it that way, with perfect absolute foreknowledge

>>510093332
I do not believe you.
I call you a liar to your face

>>510095727
>he doesnt wipe your ass for you, so hes not going to save the baby
Bro actually typed this out, thought "This'll show him", and hit Post.

>>510095790
>Like you responding to me. I created that
completely different from what was being discussed.
influence doesn't mean causal determination.

the worldline being selected that had the choice you freely made in it being selected is a completely different thing.
they're still choices you freely made with your faculty of will.
>>510095845
it really is, free will and determinism/sovereignty
it's beautiful

>>510095560
Why are there no takebacks? Why can't the lesson be over now?

This is like punishing a toddler for the rest of their life, even after they have grown up, because they disobeyed you once

>>510095982
How was breakfast today, gupta?

>>510092705
The guy was based and the whore deserved it

>>510095827
Yeah, looking through the video again, it looks like the baby gets hit with the fastest axe kick ever performed... directly on the neck.

I'm not refuting that the kid is dead, but it would only take a slightly different position in the carrier for the kid to still be alive.

>>510095982
Baby's dead, wtf can they do?

>>510095945
It's fucking scary how I'm sure they all blankly stared as if he said nothing wrong at all. God forgave him so why shouldn't we? It's the most cucked religion on the face of the earth. No wonder it's the only religion you're allowed to treat like shit. They deserve, and actually welcome, it.

>>510096037
ah man, thatll show him.

>>510096044
>completely different from what was being discussed.
But not to the response you gave me earlier
>>510096044
>you freely made with your faculty of will.
There would be no faulty of will or the free use of if there wasn't a cause and it's not truly free when will is bound by consequences

>>510095560
>be in eden
>happy, no suffering
>don't know the difference between good and evil
>someone comes and tells you to eat from le magical tree
>le god tells you to not eat it, but since you don't know the difference between good and evil you pretty much don't even know its wrong to eat it, you don t know that its wrong to not listen to him
>eat from the tree since you are clueless
>you are now le punished forever and all your offspring that has nothing to do with it will suffer!

>>510096025
lmao

>>510092306
Because infinity=inaction
You have to actually experience it to understand what I mean
Ofc you will never be able

>>510096044
>shits on the chessboard and acts like he won.
Many such cases.

>>510092306
Also god doesn't owe you shit

>>510088363 (OP)
This webm hurts my heart. Idk but I do know God will eventually take us all… None of us is making it out alive m8

>god does nothing
>therefore he exists
retarded cattle

>>510096031
>God is literally the cause of everything, the first cause. Everything else follows his decision to create reality, and therefore is a consequence of his action
already addressed, see >>510094639
>It's not really a choice if it was predetermined an infinity ago. It's merely the illusion of choice
already addressed, see the post you're respond to and not reading apparently: "foreknowledge is epistemic, not causal. God knows what you'll choose, but again, that doesn't mean He forces your hand."
>It's more like a man creating chess, creating his opponent from scratch, creating the components of his opponent from scratch, programming his opponent, and knowing exactly what his opponent will do because he programmed it that way, with perfect absolute foreknowledge
that's not analogous.
we are moral agents with faculties of will, we make choices, there are different possible worlds, God actualized one world, this one.
so while God has perfect foreknowledge, He’s not the author of your decisions, you are.

>>510096103
Well yeah, and if my aunt had a dick she'd be my uncle.

>>510088659
>suicide
They were going to die anyway, this had to have been less painful

>>510092408
He's not your enemy

>suffer through life
>go to hell for being big ungrateful meanie
God can slobber on my taint

>>510088659
jews did this and americans worship them
there are no words for how fucked that is

>>510088363 (OP)
"Look both ways before you cross the street"
- my grandmother

>>510088659
How does this count as a suicide you retarded nigger? I would rather jump than burn slowly.

>>510092558
>There is no one to blame except kikes for the state of affairs most of our lives are in anyways.
Foolish of you
Very foolish

>>510096374
Insightful. Have a good day.

Remember to look up before crossing the road.

>>510095573
Being wrapped up all the time,
in winter clothes, sure makes death seem easy

>>510090854
at least he tried

>>510093552
>>510095849

>>510096243
>"Why didn't you save that baby, Superman?"
>"Hey, I'm not going to wipe your ass for you, so why would I protect you?"

>>510096262
>it's not truly free when will is bound by consequences
go read about what "free will" means in philosophy.
your head is filled with rocks.
minimally, it means the ability to not choose x.
external factors being present influencing your will doesn't mean it's not free.

>>510096529
superman is jewish. he wants your children dead and you replaced with jeets.

>>510096360
>foreknowledge is epistemic, not causal
When we're talking about humans. Except we aren't. We're talking about an omnipotent being. You're being very disingenuous in your arguments

>>510096360
If god knows what we'll choose then how is our will free? Seems like it's his will, especially since you say he designs the world for certain outcomes to arise.

>>510096313
>God isn't responsible for what he created.

>>510088363 (OP)
God here.
Look I know it may come as a bit of a disappointment to many of you but really I am not even aware of most of you. All that stuff about me being all powerful and all seeing? Its bullshit. I mean yeah, I can do some things but it requires an extreme effort and force of concentration from you to connect with me, and even then what I can do is very limited and requires your conscious cooperation. Saving that baby? Look that's just beyond my scope. You may as well ask me to save every baby sparrow that falls from its mother's nest.
Look, I am not even sure who I am, what I am, or how I came to be here, its like I am just slowly becoming awake. Remember at all when you first became conscious of existing? Yeah, its like that for me too. my best guess is that I am the combined intelligence, or minds, or souls if you like, of all sentient creatures that have ever existed. That somehow after death they all reside in some sort of communal-like existence somehow somewhere in the Universe. Your guess is as good as mine.
The Universe? No I didn't create it. At least I dont think I did. I have no idea where it came from, I was hoping you could help me with that.
And listen, please, all the crap some of your fellows talk about various prophets, all those "holy" books of yours, all those who claim to speak for me. Please. They are either shysters or just idiots who have somehow tapped into my existence but come up with utterly perverted and corrupted interpretations which suit their own utterly inane agendas. Ignore them. All of them. I do not speak though words printed in a book. I do not speak in any manner that resembles an Earth language at all.
All I can really do is be here when you try to connect with me. If you do you will know it. You will feel something incredibly immense, something that is now aware of you. It takes a huge effort on your part, its not easy, not always successful. Just keep trying. Maybe together we can figure this whole thing out.

>>510088363 (OP)
>If God existed, why would he allow this?

to believe in god is to fear the unknown. an act of pure cowardice. only cattle requires assurances on the afterlife

>>510088363 (OP)
the family has a generational curse
nothing happens by chance

>>510096512
Has anyone seen that one youtube short of an old ad where the guy shoves people and they get pissed, and then random car crashes narrowly avoid them

India is proof that there is no God.

>>510093119
Too many loopholes
Yes everything happens for a reason but not for what he thought

>>510096512
Sorry, it's much more insightful to say that if the guy hit the carriage in a different way the baby would still be alive. What if he didn't hit it at all? The baby would be perfectly fine. Isn't that such a meaningful thing to say?

>>510096360
>foreknowledge is epistemic, not causal. God knows what you'll choose, but again, that doesn't mean He forces your hand
I disagree. If I roll a ball down a hill, knowing perfectly where it will strike and the resultant consequences from that, I am the direct cause of all that then occurs. God as the Prime Mover is the direct cause of all events

>we are moral agents with faculties of will, we make choices, there are different possible worlds, God actualized one world, this one
God is the only moral agent, the only cause, the only chooser. We are all downstream of his causation

>so while God has perfect foreknowledge, He’s not the author of your decisions, you are
God's perfect foreknowledge and creation of all things makes him analogous to an author

The author is in fact directly responsible for all of the decisions of his characters. They merely have the illusion of freedom at best

>>510096540
>go read about what "free will" means in philosophy
This isn't an argument. It just means you don't have an actual rebuttal
>external factors being present influencing your will doesn't mean it's not free.
It does when thise external factors is an omnipotent and omniscient God who punishes those who don't follow its will

>>510096604
>doesn't address the point.
Many such cases.

>>510089475
>has suicide forest
>Nip
Checks out

>>510096645
Unless it's the god of poop and trash.

>>510096360
>foreknowledge is epistemic, not causal
well that's objectively false, so

>>510088363 (OP)
is that russia? do ziggers just fall out of the sky overthere wtf?

>>510096678
what loopholes? Everything make perfect sense with the loosh theory, why we reproduce, how everything is divided for maximum conflict, diseases, having to eat to survive etc.

>>510096540
A mad scientist puts an implant in a man's head that makes him kill his wife. Did he exercise his free will?
A mad scientist puts an implant in a man's head that makes him want to kill his wife, and he does it. Did he exercise his free will?
A mad scientist puts an implant in a man's head that makes him think that his wife will kill him, and he kills her. Did he exercise his free will?

>>510096613
>If god knows what we'll choose then how is our will free?
>Seems like it's his will, especially since you say he designs the world for certain outcomes to arise.
yes, it's both.

imagine a tree, a big trunk with branches splitting off of it.
the branches are different possible worlds.
God elected to draw one line from the base of the trunk to the tip of one branch, the best possible world that aligns with his omnibenevolent will, this is the actualized world.
the branches still exist (meaning we have free will), they're just not going to be actualized.
the actualized world is based on our freewill choices.

i get the kneejerk reaction that this seems like a copout, but it's a philosophically sound framework that allows for freewill and determinism to exist simultaneously.

>>510096731
nigga, if you think im taking bullshit on pol serious enough to give you real answers, youre high on motherfucking crack.

if you want this resolved go google "theodicy" and have chatgpt help you figure out how to read augustine or something.

>>510096203
WORSE than that, one of the other deacons who was leading opening prayer quietly turned off the microphone the pedo was holding so people watching the sermons online (this was right in the middle of covid) wouldn't hear him speak as he just fucking kept going about the unfairness of it

>>510096540
>external factors being present influencing your will doesn't mean it's not free.
And I don't even need to use God as an example of how this isn't true

If you're pulled over for drunk driving and the cop gives you the choice to take the PBT, you can refuse but you're still going to jail.

An ultimatum isn't free, it's a cage

>>510088363 (OP)
I always wondered are uncivilized people from island tribes going to hell because they didn't read Christian fairy tales?

>>510096917
>yes, it's both.
Not it isn't, it's an ultimatum

>>510096934
>I was just pretending to be retarded.

>>510097060
It's funny how religions respect geographic boundries.

>>510088363 (OP)
Because Earth isn't Heaven, where only good things happen?
Even a toddler could have explained this to you.
>why would God have allowed gravity omg how evil of him, fucking gravity >t. you

>>510097303
>God doesn't care about us.

>>510097017
again, philosophically, "free will" means the ability to choose between alternatives, even if the options are unpleasant.
being presented with an ultimatus (take test or go to jail) doesn't eliminate freedom, it just limits the range of choices.
you still retain agency, you can choose to comply or refuse, knowing the consequences.

coercion INFLUENCES your decision, but it doesn't determine it in the strict causal sense.
determinism would mean you COULDN'T have chosen otherwise, but in your example you can, even if one option is costly.
https://iep.utm.edu/freewill/

>>510096723
>>external factors being present influencing your will doesn't mean it's not free.
it's worth repeating
free doesn't mean "does good and evil as pleases" but the opposite of "bound", meaning it is boundless, but not undirected or unguided
be careful who guides your will ;)

all ITT kys

>>510096686
I initially said that the baby might have survived if it was treated immediately. I was told that the baby was confirmed to be dead. I said that the guy must've landed on the kid's head, as I assumed the baby would've been treated otherwise. I am told that the impact was not survivable no matter what. I said that the impact would be survivable if it didn't land on the head or neck. After reviewing the video with my computer rather than my phone, I see that the guy's foot clearly landed on the baby's neck -- which is not survivable. Everything lines up. Case closed, everyone go home.

>>510097429
>what is the entire lore behind Jesus Christ
this too, even a toddler could explain to you.
If you really don't get it, then I guess you're one of those NPCs, and your "feelings" are not real.

>>510097461
>Just because I got a gun to your head, doesn't mean you don't have a choice.

>>510096360
This
>>510094639
sounds like an extremely elaborate cope for how an all-powerful all-knowing all-good deity could still be forced into letting bad things happen. It's just an easier version of the trolley problem for God; you're all-knowing so you can see that the trolley is going to hit someone, but you're all-powerful and can literally do anything so you can save everyone AND let the murderous trolley driver have free will, but you choose not to because...that's not within your editorial purview? Except maybe it is;
>but God chooses the version where His goals are achieved through their free choices.
If you're prevented from making certain choices by God editing that version of reality out, how is that different for me from just being forced to make other choices? And you're tacitly admitting that things like babies getting killed by suicide jumpers must be one of the "goals" in this case?

I mean really, step back and look at how particular and complicated you have to be in order to even make a lame attempt at saving God from responsibility for his creation. Do you really think you have to work this hard because your point is true?

It all just boils down to priests wanting people to credit God for everything good and blame everything bad on themselves so they'll keep showing up on Sunday and paying their tithe. If it doesn't make sense they don't care, they're propagandists, all that matters is that the unwashed masses behave in the required direction.

>>510097583
You first, pillow-biter.

>>510096897
>A mad scientist puts an implant in a man's head that makes him kill his wife. Did he exercise his free will?
no.
the man's action is causally determined by the implant, he has no control, no deliberation, no alternative.
>A mad scientist puts an implant in a man's head that makes him want to kill his wife, and he does it. Did he exercise his free will?
possibly.
if the man still has the ability to reflect, resist, or choose otherwise, then his will is still operative.
the implant influences his desires, but influence =/= coercion.
>A mad scientist puts an implant in a man's head that makes him think that his wife will kill him, and he kills her. Did he exercise his free will?
likely, but compromised.
the man acts on a false belief, but if he still chooses based on that belief, he's exercising his will.
he's still a moral agent even if his reasoning is distorted. the key is whether he could've chosen differently.

these are good hypotheticals.

>>510097461
>, "free will" means the ability to choose between alternatives, even if the options are unpleasant
By unpleasant, you mean a mob boss style ultimatum where the boss has all the power regardless of what you choose
>>510097461
>even if the options are unpleasant.
>being presented with an ultimatus (take test or go to jail) doesn't eliminate freedom
Yes it does. You go to jail regardless of the choice you make lol

This is how disingenuous or lacking of real world experience to understand. It's why you keep using the red herring of philosophical "meaning"

>>510097484
>undirected or unguided
>be careful who guides your will
Like cause and effect. So it's not truly free but guided lol

>>510088363 (OP)
Kek I haven’t seen this in years

>>510097762
>not truly free
again, it is not bound
your will changes hands frequently unless you properly devote it

>>510097688
>if the man still has the ability to reflect, resist, or choose otherwise, then his will is still operative.
OK, a man points a gun at your wife's head and your head and tells you to choose who dies. Is that free will too?

>>510097635
>A toddler could explain it. But I won't. It's like, so obvious, bro. I'm too smart to try and defend my point.

>>510097890
>it is not bound
It is by consequences. And everyone choice had a cause that made it possible

>>510097762
It's more than that even, it's direct causation
See >>510096717
>If I roll a ball down a hill, knowing perfectly where it will strike and the resultant consequences from that, I am the direct cause of all that then occurs. God as the Prime Mover is the direct cause of all events
>God is the only moral agent, the only cause, the only chooser. We are all downstream of his causation

>>510097890
>your will changes hands frequently unless you properly devote it
we are not by any means the only sentient beings in the world...

>>510098001
Exactly

>>510097691
i only give a shit about the philosophical meaning of free will in this context.
>>510097685
under molinism, God doesn't force choices or edit them out retroactively. instead, God actualizes a world in which free creatures make choices He foreknows they would make. you're still free in the libertarian sense, you could have chosen otherwise, but God knew what you WOULD choose in that scenario.
so from the molinist view, it's not coercion, it's selection of a world where free choices align with divine goals.

God permits evil not because He wills it, but because in all feasible worlds where humans are truly free, some evil will occur (read up on "transworld depravity" if you're interested in this topic)
the world God chose is one where the greatest possible good is achieved through the free choices of creatures, even if that includes tragic events.
this doesn't mean those tragedies are "goals," but that God can bring good even from evil, as seen in stories like joseph's in Genesis 50:20.

truth isn't always simple. quantum physics is complex but that doesn't make it false. the complexity of molinism reflects the depth of the questions it tries to answer, namely "how can God be sovereign and humans be free"

>>510097615
Even if he hadn't landed on his neck, that baby was toast. If you believe that baby went from 0 to 200 into the concrete and survived, you're fucking crazy.

>>510097920
>OK, a man points a gun at your wife's head and your head and tells you to choose who dies. Is that free will too?
yes
https://iep.utm.edu/freewill/

>>510092096
>like many other sins exist because of sin because Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge which they were forbidden to do.
Why weren't they made properly so that they wouldn't have eaten from the tree? Clearly there was something wrong with them, otherwise they would have made the right choice. So what was it? Why were they made with a fault?

>>510098201
>i only give a shit about the philosophical meaning of free will
You hide behind it because it has no real world application

>>510098259
Free will.

>>510098249
No dummy, it's an ultimatum as the obvious free will choice is to pick neither but if you pick neither you both die.

You are an ignorant moron

>>510096917
What good are the other branches if only one is used? That's still predestination because the other branches are sitting unused.

>>510098275
>it has no real world application
this
St Symeon the Theologian says to act in the world like you have free will and pray like God has predestined everything.

>>510096959
That's fucking vile. What denomination?

>>510098379
>pray like God predestines everything.
more correct

>>510093403
God both plays dice and knows the rolls.
Dualism is the strong delusion.

>>510098359
the other branches aren't useless, they're necessary for free will to be meaningful.

God's knowledge depends on them. before creation, God knew what every possible free creature would choose in any circumstance (middle knowledge).
the "unused branches" represent all those possibilities. without them, there's no basis for God to actualize a world where free choices align with His will. your choices COULD have gone differently. the fact that other branches exist means your decisions weren't FORCED, they just weren't the ones God saw fit to actualize. predestination would mean only one path was ever possible, but under molinism, YOU determined which branch became real via your free will.

the "best" world isn't arbitrary. God doesn't just pick a random branch, He actualizes the one where free creatures, acting authentically, produce the most good. The unused branches aren't failures, they're the backdrop that makes the actual world's goodness meaningful.

think of it like a chess grandmaster foreseeing every move you MIGHT make, then choosing to play the game where your free moves lead to checkmate. the other possible games weren't pointless, they were how the grandmaster ensured your freedom AND the desired outcome.

>>510098418
IFB

>>510097688
I didn't make these hypotheticals, other than the last one. They were used in a study that I read some time ago. It was titled: For Whom Does Determinism Undermine Moral Responsibility?

Considering you view alternative possibilities as a condition of free will, the next question would be this: suppose a man is deciding whether to kill his wife, but a mad scientist will intervene and make him kill his wife if he chooses not to. If the mad scientist does not have to intervene, is the man responsible for killing his wife?

>>510098778
>God knew what every possible free creature would choose in any circumstance (middle knowledge).
Except there is coercion.

Thats what you keep trying to hand wave

>>510098259
Sex with Eve is a limited hangout to honeypot the rebellion against heaven.

>>510098319
>be god
>be all knowing and wise
>expect mental toddlers with no concept of good and evil to not eat a particular fruit.
>just let the tree sit out in to open, not even a sign.
>someone tricks the completely gullible humans into eating fruit
>know all this will happen because omniscience.
>"Oy vey, how could this have happened? Now I'm mad!"
What a fucking retard.