Thread 510117286

Russia is to scrap its only remaining carrier.
2nd army in the world btw

>>510117286 (OP)
Drones & missiles are making a lot of military hardware obsolete on land and sea,

A few hundred drones the size of a compact car can destroy an entire fleet of ships or a entire company of tanks and mechanized army

Disposable drones that are basically flying smart missiles can be as small as a bird or as big as a any fighter jet making most jobs fighter pilots do obsolete

>>510117286 (OP)
ukraine is losing to THAT?!

>>510117907
You also dont need carriers to defend yourself. It's purely a World Police ship, meant for badgering countries across the ocean from you.

>>510117907
Militaries should invest more in automated point defense guns.

>>510117286 (OP)
They can just buy a way better one that isn't a floating turd from China.

No need to tow this hunk of shit around anymore

>>510119263
They can buy a better one from another ally

>>510117286 (OP)
The mobile volcano finally goes dormant....

>>510117286 (OP)
Crazy how Puccia gaslit the world into believing they were peers with the USA, when in reality they are peers with Guatemala, Fiji, Bangladesh and Christmas Island.

>>510117286 (OP)
1st army in the world couldnt beat some goat herders over 20 years, whats your point? airfract carriers arent even relevant anymore

>>510119794
kek. China's carriers are knocks offs off the Russian one lmao.

>>510117286 (OP)
Russia doesn't need force projection so this isn't some huge blow. It's smart

>>510117286 (OP)
>Open-source analyst Moklasen first reported the reassignment of some of the 58,000-ton Kuznetsov’s approximately 1,500-person crew. The sailors formed a so-called “frigate” mechanized battalion within the 1st Guards Tank Army, Moklasen concluded after scouring Russian social media for clues.

sounds like more ukranian bullshit

>>510119987
I thought Russians could into nuclear power

What's the point? Only America and UK can buy their way through every nation's waters to enforce their bully trade culture.

>>510120340
Propaganda is on point. I remember the Call of Duty games when they took over Europe in 3 days.

>>510117286 (OP)
Name one historical conflict Russia lost due to naval inferiority, and would have won if they had a better navy. I'm waiting.

>>510120763
this. /pol/ is full of midwits and newfags who know fuck all. but im apparently defending PUCCIA by daring to know anything about russia's history

>>510117907
The US faced effectively the same threat 80 years ago, in a time where defenses against it were much more primitive and less effective, and managed to overcome it. Modern carrier warfare doctrine and hardware have taken it into account ever since and taking down big fat slow drones is absolutely trivial compared to the supersonic sea-skimming missiles most of the current hardware was designed to defend for. Carriers don't just sit around alone near an enemy coastline, they're constantly on the move, they stay as as far away as they can (which can be very far, given the air refueling capabilities they carry), and are surrounded by a ring of defensive ships.

Making a drone that has the range to get out to a carrier, the payload to do serious damage, and the ability to actually find and hit a moving target in a vast ocean isn't cheap or easy and the only potential adversary who MIGHT be able to do it in sufficient numbers to overwhelm defenses is China, and the chance of a real hot war between them and the US in the near future is pretty low.

>>510117907
You don't have to "take out" a carrier to render it ineffective.
Send 2000 small drones (like the kinds they use to go after tanks and APCs in Ukraine) out to it, and those that get through can hit any aircraft on the flight deck, and damage the carrier deck to the point that the whole ship is useless as an aviation platform.
Of course, the Russians and Chinese can already take our carriers out with big hardware, but doing so would be an act of war.

>>510119133
If they don't come up with a way of stopping an endless wave of small drones, it doesn't matter how many guns and missiles you have.

>>510117286 (OP)
>2nd army in the world btw
No that's ICE now. Get fucked Piotr.

>Aircraft Carrier
Now, nigger, let's see where could it operate at the marine drone warfare age:
>Black sea (extended to Mediterranean)
nope
>Baltic sea
nope
>Sea of Japan
nope

So, why waste money on this piece of outdated 40 years old piece of shit when you can have 100 more mobile missile launch platforms with decent anti-drone defense for the price?

Orc
Diesel
Ramp
Slop

>>510117286 (OP)
>2nd army in the world btw
Yeah, but among navies they're probably not even in the top 10. Who cares? Wars are fought on land.

The Russians know that American sea power has been rendered obsolete by hypersonic missiles like Kinzal, US does not have such hypersonic missile technology, unstoppable missile can sink any carrier.
Kuznetsov is being scrapped because it is obsolete technology and the money will be spent on modern defense systems like the S-400 that was able to intercept the American B2 Spirit over Iran recently. Media won't report it but all B2s were shot down.
Just kidding imagine being a fucking zigger and seeing your entire military dismantled and your country humiliated over the space of three years.

>>510123476
Name a single aircraft carrier group ship that survived an anti-ship missile attack.
Let's not even get to the sea/unsdersea drones.

>>510118631
>ukraine is losing to THAT?!
There's minimal naval involvement in this war, and that aircraft carrier was never even involved at all.

Frankly, I think they're right to scrap it because its obsolete. All it would take it one hypersonic missile to sink the damn thing. Aircraft carriers are pretty much useless nowadays.

>>510122423
>Name one historical conflict Russia lost due to naval inferiority, and would have won if they had a better navy. I'm waiting.
The Russo-Japanese war.

>>510117286 (OP)
kek even Iran has a carrier

>>510117286 (OP)
Calling it a carrier is a bit of a stretch.

Sad to see such an equally ingenious and clusterfuck of a ship go, but can't argue with it being all kinds of outdated.

Small and cheap missile destroyers and drone carriers are the future.

>>510124342
>The Russo-Japanese war.
Logistic inferiority != Naval inferiority.
But it was a colossal fuckup, anyway.

>>510124231
The worst part is that it wasn't ever good as a carrier - it mostly used the planes for scouting. It's main armament was always missiles of which it had over 400, but with drones on the rise it doesn't have enough AA defenses to justify the expense. Corvette can have a close enough anti-ship loadout, decent AA for its size and costs way less.

Maybe they'll decide to upgrade Kuznetsov with lasers in addition to its normal defenses but somehow I doubt that - its 40 years old at this point.

aircraft carriers are retarded and expensive for little gain nowadays. Look at how the mighty americans can't even stop some sandniggers in caves from sinking trade ships in the red sea. HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH AAAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>510117286 (OP)
2nd army in what world? The third world? Pakistan is a more credible threat than Russia. Russians can't even fight their way out of alcoholism. Chinks call Russia a poor country. If Chinks think you look impoverished, you are pretty goddamn destitute

>>510117286 (OP)
Aircraft carriers are only useful to defend Israel, threaten Israel's enemies, and in the Pacific.

>>510125000
you are the dumbest gorilla nigger in the jungle. Checked thoughbeit

>BLYAT! our planes have been destroyed and humiliated!
>time to pretend aircraft carriers aren't worthwhile!!

>>510117286 (OP)
>alex porker
pedocuck bitte

They didn't need it anyways. Just like all those tanks and airplanes they didn't need those either.

>IMG_0169
lmao

>>510120712
One of China's is the sister ship of the Kuznetsov. The Chines e are able to keep it working though

Ukraine built that ship, btw.

>>510117286 (OP)
After its dock sank and managing to drop a crane through it it probably wasn't worth fixing anyway when it's also old and busted. Just build a new one at that point, it's probably no more expensive.

>>510124857
Which is why China is building them right? kek retard

>>510125555
The Moskva as well right?

>>510124209
Numerous ships survived kamikaze attacks during WWII, cheap car-sized drones would basically be equivalent to those.

How about you name a carrier group ship that DIDN'T survive an anti-ship missile attack - protip, it's gonna be hard, because an American warship has never been sunk by an enemy missile. On the other hand, American ships, including CSGs, have successfully defended against tons of missile attacks by the Houthis in just the last few years, and that's in a worst case scenario area where the carriers' movement is constrained and they're forced to be within range of those attacks.

>>510117286 (OP)
Carriers are obsolete
They are building these instead. Primarily they are drone carriers. About half the size of a traditional carrier, can also be used for amphibious assaults.

>>510125567
fucking gross a spic responded to my post. Just kill yourself

>>510123878
I have discussed this before but there is a big incentive right now for theoretical weapons like EMP bombs or inducing solar flares that can disable eletronics but not harm humans or a kind of internet super virus that corrupts all of the internet to stop AI threaths for ex. It still wouldnt be very effective against certain AI drones or Air gapped AI's but its something. The Russians are good at jamming and eletronic warfare but its still not enough IMo. I guess the nukes in space was kind of this angle that the USA was worried about but i think that mainly would take out USA satelites.

>>510125843
Refute my argument pajeet, you can't

Why do Russians even come here if everybody hates them and makes fun of them? What kind of fucking cuckoldry... If Russians were half as mad at their dictator as they were at us, they'd create some real change

>>510125973
What argument you dumb spic? Want me to translate it to your disgusting spic speak?

>>510125827
Ours can do that.

>>510125675
Are you unironically comparing a prop aircraft to a fucking anti-ship missile?

Russians have gotten so irate recently, in the last five years they went from cool and level-headed to angry and confused. What might've happened to cause this? Is there something going on with them? (besides the total destruction and demoralization of their war machine)

>>510126142
I accept your concession shitskin.

>>510125675
kamikaze attackers were very few and happened one at a time since japan at that point didn't have that many pilots to spare let alone planes. There were 3-5 battleships defending against one kamikaze plane and while the AA was inaccurate , mass concentration of fire can do the trick.

>>510126413
The anon I originally replied to was talking about "drones the size of a compact car." If those were built to a price point where anybody could realistically crank out thousands of them and throw hundreds at a CSG, they'd be on a similar performance level to a WWII prop fighter.

What's the point of maintaining a 50 year old carrier? They should have got rid of it 15 years ago

>>510126425
They're as arrogant as niggers and they're being humbled like a nigger being overpowered by 6 white cops.

>>510126530
you are so pathetic

>>510123476
Drones maybe, but not hypersonic missles. Carries are just a huge target for them they basicall cant miss

>>510126593
You've must've misquoted me here >>510125675.

>>510126680
you are so brown

>>510123878
A comically large net is all it would take to bring down an entire fleet of drones

>>510124677
>Logistic inferiority != Naval inferiority.
If you had won that battle of Tsushima Strait you would have also won the war on land. I completely understand your logistics were poor across that vast distance. But Japan's logistics depended entirely on crossing that strait. If you have achieved naval supremacy Japan couldn't supply their army at all and would have lost soon after.

>>510126600
Probably because they didn't want to pay for a new one. Nobody is putting money in 20th century style carriers so they can lose a gillion dollars and a big chunk of local airpower from some speedy/swarmed missles or drones that cost 1/10,000th the price.

>>510126749
whiter than you, american spic. This'll be my last response to your disgusting spic replies. I want to enjoy this glass of mexican tears you have provided me in privacy

>>510117286 (OP)
>Russia is to scrap its only remaining carrier.
Oh no, they need to emulate the US and keep shit they don’t need.

>2nd army in the world btw
Wrong. 1st army in the world.

NATO has never fought anything even close to what Russia is fighting while Russia is manhandling a 60 country coalition including NATO.

>>510126600
It was symbolic, now Russia is too poor to even do that.

>>510117907
You aren't too bright. Countries would have to travel a huge vast ocean to get here. Carriers make all the difference. hypersonic missile on the other hand, are shit and can be shot down easily. Russia itself is a sinking ship.

>>510126779
The Russian truck drivers who delivered trailers full of drones to Borisoglebsk had no idea they were transporting Ukrainian drones. Russians could be helping Ukraine and not even know it. Can't beat stealth and the element of surprise

>>510126936
Whatever helps you cope pajeet. Now get back to making my subway hoagie.

>>510118631
Your little midget hero likes to molest young boys. Image that?! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uWEaKLzwUg

>>510125567
Chinks need them to fuck with Taiwan, Japan and Australia. There's only land between Puccia and Yurop

>>510126955
retard

>>510117286 (OP)
ESL thread

>>510127117
Yeah, go ahead and project your inferior, low intellect. You don't know shit.

>>510126948
>including NATO
500,000 dead Russians, 0 dead NATO forces. You have two choices: admit that NATO has a 500,000+ KDA, or admit you're not fighting NATO. Which is it ziggy

>>510127105
jewlenskyy was probably in those jew tunnels in NYC at some point unironically

>>510125675
>American ships, including CSGs, have successfully defended against tons of missile attacks by the Houthis in just the last few years

The carrier had to swerve so hard that a plane fell in the water. You literally almost lost a carrier to people who are basically pic related

>>510127209
you're dumber than fuck, nigger

>>510127217
Russia would get their asses stomped into the ground if NATO entered the conflict. I mean, Russia has had to resort to North Korean boots on the ground to fight Ukraine. Let that sink in.

>>510126860
You people drastically overhype drones. Some prop driven 20mph piece of shit is not going to get through whatever the Russian equivalent is to CIWS.

The real danger is antiship missiles which are fast as fuck and have only gotten deadlier and more accurate in the past 20 years. That Rus carrier would be domed and sunk in just two or three of them. Actually, every ship would be.

>>510127256
Yeah they lost a couple of planes over the side, but sustained no hits and completed their mission (even if they might have to go back again later).

Its going to be a brutal wake up call when a carrier is sunk. Its literally going the way the battleship was headed.

>>510127232
Are you alright? Jews didn't have a fucking thing to do with what I said.

>2nd army in the world btw
US number one
China number two
There's a power gap after that before you can discuss anyone else.

>>510127272
Like I said, You are of low intellect. You don't know shit.

>>510127407
No it isn't. There's a reason China is investing so much in carrier fleets. The only thing that would obsolete carriers is orbitally-launched satellite guided ordinance, and you're not getting that for another 50 years.

>>510126682
Nobody actually has hypersonic missiles with the accuracy to hit a moving carrier at sea. The things that exist are basically just ICBMs with conventional payloads instead of nukes and they're nowhere close to that capability. Actual horizontal flight hypersonics, like people usually imagine, are in the experimental/prototype phase across the board and there are serious targeting issues that need to be overcome.

>>510126741
They were two separate points. I mentioned the kamikaze thing in the first line in relation to the drone thing, the second line was directly addressing your comment about missile attacks.

>>510127256
There's a big difference between losing a plane over the side and losing a whole carrier or even an escort ship.

>>510117286 (OP)
rip in peace

>>510127429
China isn't that impressive.

>>510127332
The Russian people would sooner revolt and overthrow Putin than enter combat with NATO for sure. Putin is too valuable for the West though - in The Art of War it says: "when your enemy is making a mistake, help them." Putin is the mistake, Russia is the enemy, and NATO is helping Russia to make that mistake. Putin is fucking Russia into the dirt and his citizens will get novichok'd if they admit it

>>510127566
>Nobody actually has hypersonic missiles with the accuracy to hit a moving carrier at sea. The things that exist are basically just ICBMs with conventional payloads instead of nukes and they're nowhere close to that capability.
This is correct. Maneuverable hypersonic weapons are a propaganda stunt.

>>510119794
Please tell me that is ai.

>>510127624
>The Russian people would sooner revolt and overthrow Putin than enter combat with NATO for sure
lmao you have zero idea what russian people are like
they'd rather roll around in dirt than admit "their guys" are wrong

>>510127407
People who think you can sink a carrier with a million toys bought off of Alibaba are living in la-la-land. Drones will have a future in warfare but one capable of taking down a carrier strike group will at least cost some cash.

>>510117286 (OP)
lol, laughs in hyper sonic missiles.

Full damage control by Russians in this thread, hilarious.

What does that mean
>2nd army in the world BTW
you lying shill idiot.
A) russia is an iraq tier ‘power’ at hest
B) all russias professional army is dead so you’d need a ouiha board to give them orders
C) stop shilling you disgusting lying cuck. Everyone is so sick of you. FUCKING LOSER.

>>510126834
I'm not arguing that it wasn't a colossal failure.
It's just that Putin sat with a thumb up his as for 20 years instead of trying to mitigate the logistic issue we've had for at last a century.
Not having two tracks across the entirety of Baikal–Amur and Trans-Siberian mainlines in that time frame is nothing but idiocy.

>>510117286 (OP)
Dangerous. It is both the most intelligent move, and also embarrassing move they could have done with that old scrap.
Could this mean that russians actually start doing some other intelligent things for once?

>>510127364
I said missiles you fucking sperg. The point is the risk/cost ratio is too fucked to continue.

>>510127802
Hypersonic missiles are shit. The Patriot missile systems has taken many of them down in Ukraine. If you know what the target is, you can easily shoot them down. Also, many carrier strike groups will have ships with lasers. YES they exist, and they can take down any missile. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyUh_xSjvXQ

lost to ‘ukraine’.
REALITY CHECK you cucked hunchback fuck.
The utter state.

>>510127780
Who said anything about drones? But yes seaborne drone swarm tactics in tandem with antiship/hypersonic missiles will overpower any anti air coverage. Just look at Israel. Not even the combined power of Israel, US, and partner states stopped over 30 missiles from hitting Israel and they're not even advanced missiles by US, Chinese, or Russian standards. Its a sitting duck.
>>510127496
China is investing everything navy not just carriers. Their output is literally swarm tactics. Expect seaborne drones as well.

>>510127496
>China is investing so much in carrier fleets
They consider their aircraft carriers to be experimental, each one is different, and it doesn't look like they are going to field more than 4 of them.
What they are building fleets of though are amphibious assault ships, Type 75 and type 76 mini carriers, fielding drones rather than human piloted craft. About half the size of a Nimitz class ship. They have a dozen on order.

>>510128251
The Moscow Times is the US Department of State propaganda division.

>>510128462
>REEEE YOU CAN'T JUST QUOTE RUSSIAN OFFICIALS, THAT'S AMERICAN PROPAGANDA

>>510128273
Israel's Iron Dome had something like a 90% interception rate and that included "hypersonic" ballistic missiles. They are probably the best in the world at that sort of thing right now. They've certainly had the practice.

As for sea swarms and anti ship missiles, the ships have deck guns, helicopters as well as missiles capable of intercepting other missiles.

>>510128885
No that did not include hypersonic missles. This was standard missles. Technically it is included but then the interception rate would be even higher

>>510129045
If by hypersonic you mean it just goes fast it did.

>>510117286 (OP)
explain why is a 2 billion dollar carrier useful when one or two 2 million dollar hypersonic missiles can put it out of business

Why does Russia need an aircraft carrier? The Houthis are able to chase away ships like this.

Russia is not the worlds mommy.

>>510128679
It's literally American propaganda.

>>510128885
No the iron dome is for short range missiles and projectiles from under 43 miles (70km) away. Its for like rpgs and primitive homemade sugar rockets from Gaza and hezbollah. If you mean the overall coverage system that includes air defense assets like the arrow 3 and davids sling yes it intercepted a majority of missiles but that is absolutely grim for any scenario involving carrier groups. If a country like Iran wracked with sanctions can develop missiles that can pass through the most advanced air defense system on earth carriers are done against a much more formidable foe like China. It is only a matter of time if war in Taiwan is inevitable that a carrier will be sunk.

>>510129762
Bombarding a city and trying to hit a carrier at sea are two completely different things.

>>510127708
Hey, if that's really what they're like that's even better for me, that'd be awesome

>Russia is to scrap its only remaining carrier.
Based. Everyone with at least two wrinkles in their brain has been rooting for that for over two decades. But the whores needed their kickbacks from endless maintenance.
>zit-sized countrylets who couldn't build half a carrier if they tried gloating itt
>genuine nafoid brigade straight from /k/ fellating Pissrael and Patriots who totally intercept 150% of hypersonic targets
Pure kino, as usual.

>>510129762
>It is only a matter of time if war in Taiwan is inevitable that a carrier will be sunk.
That's a big "if," though, and personally I think it's not actually very likely. Taiwan's territory is basically worthless, the value is all in the infrastructure and manufacturing tech and most of that won't survive a war with China. Such a war would also be catastrophic for the Chinese economy, which is already much less robust than it was a decade or so ago, the cost of the war combined with the loss of western trade would be a disaster. There's also less political motivation given that the vast majority of Taiwanese people have given up on the "we're the rightful rulers of China" thing in favor of an independent Taiwanese identity and younger people are more in favor of warming relations with the PRC, and it's probably in the PRC's best interest to just wait it out and end up with an independent but PRC-friendly Taiwanese government, which seems to be the real inevitability and a compromise they can probably accept.

As for if a war does happen, I think it's more likely the US chickens out and keeps their carriers out of Chinese missile/drone range at the cost of strategic effectiveness rather than putting them in a situation to get hit at all.

>>510125000
>Russians can't even fight their way out of alcoholism.
kek

Aircraft carriers became obsolete with the advent of cruise missiles, and having a single nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine is a more valuable asset than half a dozen carrier groups. Same with the cruisers and destroyers, they're all going the way of battleships and dreadnoughts in the next big naval war. The only types of surface warships worth having in this new era are frigates and corvettes, for patrolling sea routes and guarding the coast, but in time the overwhelming majority of world navies will consist of drone submarines.

>>510128885
When you have full western planes helping and arab countries around as well helping so it doesnt get overwhelmed it gets easier. The thing about Israel Air defense system that mostly surprised is the lasers shooting down drones/missiles being very cost effective. Laser technology for air defense might be very intersting

>>510131614
I think USA already gave up on Taiwan if China would make a move and their strategy is to sabotage all Taiwanse industry especialy chips if and its a big if China actualy invades.

>>510119133
I unironically think battleships will make a comeback. Drone payloads dont seem like they're enough to punch through proper armor.

>>510121828
Yup, and in 90% of cases it's ends up just fine

>>510117286 (OP)
>Russia is to scrap its only remaining carrier.
>2nd army in the world btw

As if they need it to conquer Europe! kek