Thread 510171659

What's so difficult about a moon mission?

You mean aside from having to bring everything necessary to sustain life?
A Lunar colony is a massive fucking undertaking.
How many launches did the ISS take?

>>510171825
This says a single Moon trip not a settlement on the moon.

>>510171659 (OP)
Idk probably the jews

>>510171659 (OP)
Space isn't real

I guess he can't replicate the Saturn V.
his rockets are "reusable", Saturn V was expendable, like fuel. Maybe his way is cheaper...

>>510171659 (OP)
Getting the dude there and back in one piece.

>>510171659 (OP)
Why not refuel in space?

>>510171659 (OP)
delta-v requirements
>need to get into orbit (hard)
>need to leave orbit (hard)
>need to get into lunar orbit (hard)
>need to land on lunar
>need to get back up into lunar orbit
>need to get back into earth orbit (hard)
lots of velocity changes required here (meaning, fuel expenditure)

>>510171933
The leaf is posting carelessly but the truth is that what Starship is trying to bring to the moon is much more ambitious than any previous mission. They're trying to send the entire large vehicle all the way to the moon's surface and back. It's just just a tiny landing craft carrying a person and some machines to collect samples and data.

Another thing to understand is that even 8 Starship launches for a 50 ton lunar payload would still cost less than the ONE Artemis SLS launch with its tiny 9 ton payload.

>>510172364
That’s more difficult than you’d think.

>>510171659 (OP)
The Apollo lander was was basically a superleggera spacecraft built specifically for political gain. There was very little scientific value to be gained past the few missions it accomplished. They are basically trying to establish a lunar space station and moon base this time. The absolute batshit crazy that it took to go to the moon back then almost doesn't exist anymore. The scale of an actually useful program makes it many times harder than just getting their in a tiny ass pod. scooping some rocks and doing some small experiments and then getting back as fast as possible. It was an incredible, herculean accomplishment that they did it, but what they want to do now is next level.

>>510171659 (OP)
rotational velocidensity

he should hire more indians

>>510171659 (OP)
Getting there is actually quite easy. Getting back is/was the difficult part. Look up the 3-body problem. A smart high schooler nowadays (Indian, Asian, Russian NOT american/irish) can solve it by hand (thats what they did in 1960ish).
Biggest issue is you look really dumb if you fail and get people killed. So there's 0 prestige in companies/countries doing it.

>>510172364
That's what this is. A Starship in Earth orbit will have exhausted most of its fuel getting there. It will take eight more Starships being launched to be able to bring it enough fuel for a trip to the Moon and back. Keep in mind each of those Starships are also using up most of their fuel to get to orbit and have enough left to land. Basically, they have about 1/8th of their fuel available to transfer to the Moon bound Starship and need the other 7/8ths of their tank for getting into orbit and back down to the ground.

>>510171933
The Apollo lunar lander weighed about 5 tons. Starship weighs about 100 tons (can also carry a lot more). It can't refuel on the moon so whatever it takes has to get it back to Earth again. That's why it takes so much refuelling.

>>510172053
Much cheaper and they’re launching a lot more to land on the surface.

>>510171659 (OP)
Did you guys know if you publicly question the moonlanding you'll get blacklisted from almost all accredited universities and scientific communities.

Happened to an Australian guy i know and literally everyone under the sun went for him and cancelled him, even well known scientists from the US.

Its like calling out kikes and being labelled an antisemite, why can't you question the US moonlanding, it was clearly a hoax.

>>510172053
>Maybe his way is cheaper...
The NASA-designed SLS moon rocket costs $4B per shot.

>>510172647
Oh it’s that street shitting parasite living in Switzerland again.

>>510172790
Oh it’s a well poisoning chink. Enjoy the next century of humiliation. This one very much earned.

>>510172790
>"why's it made of tinfoil?! Fake as fuck!"
>Get told why it's made of what it's made of
>Come back tomorrow
>"why's it made of tinfoil? Fake as fuck!"
>Repeat until everybody is sick of your shit and you're not invited back

>>510171659 (OP)
Starship is a failure. It is too experimental. It is trying to reinvent the wheel and failing

>>510171659 (OP)
people who can do basic math have already started saying its a lot more than 8, the mission plan is mucho retardo but no one has the balls to says so because they just wanna suck on the government teet

>>510171659 (OP)
we need a better way of getting things into space

>>510171659 (OP)
>What's so difficult about a moon mission?
Starship isn't really built for it. The apollo missions landed a small two-seater on the moon, elon is talking about landing a big ass rocket there and taking off again so it needs a ton of fuel.

>>510173024
Starship can carry about 1500 tons of fuel and about 150 tons of payload. So if that 150 payload is fuel to refuel things with it takes about 10 trips to refuel 1 Starship in orbit.

>>510173134
We're not allowed to acknowledge gravity modulation exists, Anon.
Haven't you heard? The laws of physics are classified. Enjoy the shadow puppetry.

>>510171933
9 launches per trip. The proposed program will require numerous trips just to establish the station and base. Let alone constant sustainment for the length of the program. 8 to fuel, 1 to transfer cargo and crew to the lunar starship. technically the first mission will require ten. One to launch said lunar starship which is not designed to ever return back to earth, but stay in space for it's entire service life. They will likely want more than one lunar starship as well. I'm starting to wonder if Burt Rutan's company and spacex should team up. Launching a starship fuel payload from 45,000 feet would save a metric shit ton of fuel to transfer to the orbiting tanker ship. The carrier plane would need to be seriously scaled up though.

>>510171659 (OP)
you have to lift the ship nearly out of earth's gravitational well to reach the moons orbit. When you put a satellite into orbit, that's one thing, but then you have to add energy to raise the orbit higher. A satellite might be a few hundred miles up. The moon is 250000 miles away.

From this infographic, you can see the small delta-v to move from an orbit around the earth at the moon's altitude to an orbit around the sun at the earth's elevation from it. (93 m/s).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta-v_budget#/media/File:Solar_system_delta_v_map.svg

So going to the moon is basically totally escaping the gravitational well of the earth. But in order to get back, you need to expend that delta-v again.

Look at that chart. A forward-back trip to the moon's surface isn't that different of a delta-v than a one-way trip to mars.

>>510171659 (OP)

Fuel is heavy. Even when these things took off (with 30,000lb bombs) it only had enough fuel to take off and was immediately refueled in the air.

>>510171659 (OP)

This is why I know for a fact that those supposed moon landings in the 60s and 70s were total bullshit.

Elon fucking Musk can’t even figure out how to get to the moon in the super digital age.

>>510173358
Why is that exactly?

>>510173338
Don't these leak fuel on the ground because the panels aren't actually properly sealed until it's hot?

>>510173246
redpill me on gravity modulation

>>510172364
too retarded to make space elevator
they are investing all their brainpower into feeding pajeets, chinks, niggers, and spics whose only goal in life is to reproduce non-stop and disturb as many people as possible

>>510171659 (OP)
I honestly don't think Elon can do it. But I still support him as he is currently helping with my goal of getting ghosts on the moon.

>>510173251
>save a metric shit ton of fuel to transfer to the orbiting tanker ship.

not really. the m*g*h energy is nothing compared to 1/2*m*v^2. launching from a carrier plane saves you some energy, but not enough to be worthwhile in most cases.

>>510171933
the outlined plan is to use the moon as a base for further exploration and operations

>>510172945
Pretty much. Just like flat earthers.

>>510172024
>isn't real
just like your brain

>>510173403
that was the sr71. I doubt these leak due to their delicate radar absorbing covering.

>>510173422
People will get really angry if you call it "anti-gravity" because it's not the opposite of gravity.
It's generally done by very rapidly spinning magnetic fields. How it's accomplished varies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlJsVqc0ywM

>>510173403
You're thinking of the SR71. The B2 doesn't go particularly fast compared to it.

>>510171659 (OP)
They lost the technology.

>>510173574
>>510173600
Mea culpa.
I'm a small arms nerd, not a plane nerd. I just talk to a bunch of plane nerds.

>>510171659 (OP)
What's so difficult to get humans go beyond 1000 km now? Since 1972 no human has gone beyond 1000 km.

>>510173358
it's easier when you aren't using a massive spacecraft for the entire journey, anon.

>>510171659 (OP)
>What's so difficult about a moon mission?
It's never been done before, give them some slack.

>>510171659 (OP)
Becasue we never landed otherwise the engineers will pull up previous mission data and can tell exaclty how it worked, and muskrat want to milk another billions and then: oppps, the 7th rocket just exploded, no landing guys!

>>510172473
>The absolute batshit crazy that it took to go to the moon back then almost doesn't exist anymore.
Yeah, it was peak cold war hysteria.

It's insane people still argue moonlanding was real in 2025

>>510173695
>Yeah, it was peak cold war hysteria.
weaponization of space generally means you have dominion over earth. people realized back then it's better for everyone not to do this. it's why trump is an absolute retard with his "golden dome", because that's doing it (it's a copy of "brilliant pebbles").

>>510173695
0.5% of US gdp in 2025 is more money than 4.5% of US gdp in 1969

To be honest more than the landing, the real achievement was the return, how the fuck they did it?

>>510173692
>otherwise the engineers will pull up previous mission data and can tell exaclty how it worked
1. Never under-estimate the collective stupidity of lazy bureaucrats
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoJsPvmFixU

2. >>510173695

3. There's nothing worse than being born to inbred goat-fucking mudslimes.

>>510173246
It’s frustrating isn’t it…

>>510172945
This. It's remarkable how stubbornly stupid these "just asking questions" people are.

>>510174103
A lot of them are chinks actively trying to sabotage western discourse.

Can't they make fuel in space or on the moon?

Lot's of coping in this thread, the fact is a real lunar landing mission of any kind involving live humans will look totally different to the Apollo missions. This musk crap, even though it's just a grift has had to shatter a few illusions just to remain feasible.

>>510172053
> Saturn V was expendable
Right. They didn’t realize you could just play the film backward like they do now.

>>510174030
Yeah it's perfectly normal that a 1969 pc weaker than modern calculators can calculate reconnecting with the orbiter and the trajectory for the return trip

>>510172796
1$ in 1970's money is equivalent to $8.29 today so a single SLS IF we still had the exact industrial infrastructure and technicians to make it today would cost approximately $33,160,000,000 per launch. And that's only for a 9 ton payload. Meaning it would take roughly 5.5555 launches to orbit starships equivalent 50 tons under ideal circumstances so that comes out to roughly $182,380,000000 per mission in 1970's tech and todays money. I hope that helps clarify why OP.

>>510172473
> There was very little scientific value to be gained
Just think how much science we will gain after waiting half a century to do it the right way without politics.

>>510171659 (OP)
>What's so difficult about a moon mission?
Why last time one launch was enough?

>>510174435
>without politics
Those must be the most rose tinted glasses ever produced.

>>510174412
How can anyone look at that image and think that this is in any way a realistic and serious proposal.

>>510172945
Gradually, I began to hate them.

>>510174024
Not really.
Inflation aside, "national priority" matters a lot more than you think.
You'd have the top scientists and engineers working on the projects.
Astronauts were celebrities. (The average person today couldn't name a single current astronaut.)
Enormous competitive pressure led to very clear focus on specific goals.

>>510174353
The math and timing isn't particularly difficult to get you in the ballpark. The meat-computers that were actual pilots did the docking manually.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transposition%2C_docking%2C_and_extraction

>>510174137
The moon is actually a pretty good place to make fuel, but getting all the equipment there to do it is going to take a lot of flights.

It's gonna take a lot more than that considering that the starship always blows up

>>510174030
transfer to an orbiter isn't that hard from lunar.

elon wants to get back into lunar orbit with that fat giant thing, and then back into earth orbit.

>>510174582
The jew hates that the White man achieved something literally out of this world. That's why the jew spams these threads.

>>510172673
This is also why Moon is important - it has lesser gravity so you only spend very little fuel to get away from it, especially to Earth.
The plan should be working towards creating some sort of fuel refinery and refuelling system on Moon - it doesn't have to be optimal fuel, just has to work. At that point you can just ferry whatever you want from Earth orbit to Moon, instead of having to launch eight rockets for useful payload to Moon each of those rockets could bring full useful payload and the Moon ferry (a shuttle, if you will) would take them to Moon.

>>510173847
This kind of looks weird..

NASA says the biggest hurdle in human space travel is radiation. Weird that it wasn't a hurdle when we supposedly went in the 60's and 70's. Also weird that we don't even send animals or plants to the moon and when we do they die. Super weird.

>>510171659 (OP)
Find a tripulation willing to die of radiation after leaving the van allen belt

>>510173600
This. The SR-71 had to accommodate for so much heat expansion that it's tanks didn't actually seal util it warmed up at operating speed and altitude. Supposedly they only had four minutes of fuel left after takeoff to hit the tanker or they had to scrub the mission and land or crash. It also supposedly got more fuel efficient the faster it went, up to a certain point where it couldn't survive the heat stress. Absolute marvel of human engineering. It was at least for the time one of the fist low observable aircraft in service. Supposedly the A-12 was actually even slightly faster than the eventual spy plane that was made out of the super high speed interceptor it was supposed to be.

>>510174629
Yeah sure docking with a space station today requires a multi stage complex procedure using navigation softwere, radar and laser but somehow they did it by eye while orbiting the moon

>>510173291
The moon is within earth's gravitational well.

have you seen the size of the lunar mission rockets?

>>510174902
The probability of dying in a given modern rocket launch is something like 1%. Spacex is probably improving the odds. Those early rockets were unreliable. The early astronauts had a high probability of dying. The radiation risk was probably poorly understood, and largely irrelevant compared to other risks.

>>510171659 (OP)
And why are you wasting time on space again?

>>510174902
radiation shielding of spacecraft/stations is good enough. the issue is outside of spacecraft/stations; you can't spend an extended amount of time outside of those due to an increase in cancer in the future. it's a few hundred times what you experience on earth out to lunar.

>>510173626
>I just talk to a bunch of plane nerds.
We're good company.

>>510175131
>radiation TODAY is the biggest hurdle
>radiation wasn't a challenge back in the day
right, make it make sense LOL
>>510175176
explain why ZERO (0) living creatures including plants, bugs, and mammals have survived outside of low earth orbit since 1972.

>>510175073
clearly. but you only need 93 m/s of delta v to go from there to an orbit around the sun.

>>510173618
The industrial base has changed in the last 50 years. Also you guys are retarded.

>>510174990
When they landed at Kadena in 1972 they only landed at night they were still quasi secret.

LMAO

>>510171933
leafs are mouthbreathing faggy french cucks, chinksects or jeets with liquified feces sloshing around their skulls, reading comprehension is not going to be his strong suit

>>510174633
Does it have the materials for it?

>>510175009
Yes. Pretty fucking badass, huh.

I think the automation they use now is to pull the human variable out of the procedures and to not need actual test pilots to be astronauts.

>>510175219
That hurts almost as much as this.

>>510171659 (OP)
Just space elevator already.

>>510171659 (OP)
>we_lost_that_technology.tiff

>>510172790
>say and do stupid shit
>everyone dislikes you
hmm

>>510174353
The "pc weaker than modern calculators" was not responsible for solving the lunar orbit rendervouz problem. The calculations were performed back on Earth with powerful mainframes and the solution was transmitted to the crew over radio. The astronauts then entered the parameters to the Apollo guidance computer using a keypad. They had to provide approximately 10,000 keystrokes with the keypad to complete an entire Moon mission.

https://web.archive.org/web/20190721181212/https://history.nasa.gov/afj/loressay.html
> Calculating the velocity needed for this maneuver is more than simply raising the pericynthion, as other orbital parameters, plus maintaining the delicate relationship between the CSM and LM need to be taken into account. These complexities are beyond the capacity of the limited memory of the LM guidance computer. Rather than selecting a specific program to perform the Boost maneuver, the calculations will be performed in the Real Time Computing Center (RTCC) and relayed to the LM crew. The crew, in turn, will use one of the "External Delta V" programs to perform the maneuver and manage this burn.

>>510175221
>right, make it make sense LOL
They didn't care about it back then. We send people on missions that they might die on all the time, and all these guys were all ex military pilots.

>>510175466
>they didn't care about the radiation so it didn't affect them
and when China sends spider eggs that are supposed to hatch while orbiting the moon and be livestreamed during the entire time in 2020 die, that's not because of the radiation because spiders don't know about radiation so they don't care

>>510174582
Just a word of friendly advice: the phrase you posted is used as an anti-semitic dog-whistle. I'll choose to believe that you did this accidentally based on your post history, but the next time I'll have no choise but to report you.

Have a nice day!

>>510174531
If the lunar starship is just a shuttle from earth orbit to the moon and back it is feasible, though it doesn't need to be rocket shaped to do that. It would remove the need for a landing pad thing left behind as you can see in >>510174353 saving weight.

>>510175452
The "powerful mainframes" were still weaker than a modern calculator and required hours to procuce a result

>>510175452
The anon you're replying to seems to think the astronauts were just along for the ride and to take selfies.

>>510171659 (OP)
it was never done before

You can literally see in pictures that the hills and the sky in the distance are just the studio wall how can people be this fucking blind?

>>510175619
You knew about the mainframes? Then why were even talking about the on-board being too weak? Strange... it's as if you're not being entirely honest here.

>>510175221
>explain why ZERO (0) living creatures including plants, bugs, and mammals have survived outside of low earth orbit since 1972.
because there's little in the way of life supporting conditions outside an atmosphere. the increase in radiation is just a small part of why that is. you can take a dog or monkey up just fine with you and bring it back if you keep it alive.

>>510171933
It’s 20x the mass delivered to lunar surface. That’s why.

>>510175624
That's essentially what these threads are. Retards too stupid to understand so they say it's impossible or are just a long for the ride with the jews saying it didn't happen.

>>510175294
It had to be folded up to fit and the 462lb vehicle cost 38 million dollars to design and build. Considering before spacex it cost over $10,000 a pound to put an object into sable earth orbit I'm glad the kept it as lite and simple as possible. Remember they were basically one time use and left on the surface when the lander crew module re-obited.

>>510175896
>NASA says the biggest hurdle in human space travel is radiation
you say it's not a big deal lol?
>dogs and monkeys survive just fine
not outside Low Earth Orbit (1,200miles from Earth's surface).

>>510175294
> LMAO
We’ll see who’s laughing when they get this thing up there.

>>510175785
its also weird how the soviets were beating the shit out of the americans during the space race until out of nowhere the mutts "landed on the moon". they only advantage amerilards had, was having kubrick on their team

Mmh I wonder why every time someone tries to say the moon landing was bullshit there's multiple "experts" on the board arguing it happened

>>510176160
don't forget we collected moon rocks from Antarctica (von Braun was pictured there just months before) to make it look like we brought them back from the moon

>>510176160
The N1 blew up like a small nuke and killed a lot of their rocket scientists.

>>510175294
Put me in my moon tesla and let me moon drift!!

>>510175345
> not need actual test pilots to be astronauts
Now we will be able to do it with nogs and jeets and women. White men no longer needed.

>>510175607
The plan supposedly is to eventually make a pad out of regolith "space concrete", but they have to get the robots and processing facilities there to do it first. Personally I seriously hope the first trip is unmanned. Especially seeing's as the want to send a hole and a chimp first this time because white men are obsolete apparently according to the holes and jeets that run NASA now.

>>510171659 (OP)
The techpriests have lost the means to use 1960s technology, the machine god is angry with us.

>>510176423
even if we do send a chimp first it'll die because zero living creatures have survived deep space since allegedly 1972
>not tardigrades
>not spiders or plants
>or anything else we've sent
>deep space is defined as >1,200miles from Earth's surface
>for reference the moon is 240,000 miles away at closest orbit

how can anyone deny these facts? it's common knowledge

>>510172945
>>Get told why it's made of what it's made of
elaborate. Why is the tin foil so haphazardly taped together?

>>510176553
Polaris Dawn last year.

>>510176616
What else would you use?

>>510173847
You know it's real because it looks so fake.

T tesla cuck

>>510175785
> the sky in the distance
with no stars

>>510175566
I couldn't find a reference to the chinese experiment, but spiders in space are nothing new. A lot could have gone wrong and killed them.

>>510176616
it's to protect from radiation anon. see astronauts didn't care about radiation before so it didn't affect them
>>510176629
were the animals returned to Earth alive?

>>510176693
Jared Issacman and his crew returned unharmed, yes.

>>510176690
Chang'e moon probe in 2020. Spider eggs living in symbiosis with plants were supposed to hatch on live stream while orbiting the moon. Never even live streamed because they died.

>lots could go wrong
but we got it 'first try' lmao ya right. good thing we don't attempt to send living creatures anymore and they just die
>>510176742
they did not go into deep space (1,200 miles from Earth's surface)

>>510175294
Look at that tiny umbrella

How come retards believe this is real

>>510175984
> jews saying it didn't happen
Jews control academia and the media. They all say it happened.

>>510176768
What exactly do you mean by "deep space"? Beyond the moon?

>>510176233
The N-1 and their lunar landing plan had massive flaws that they couldn't resolve before we figured it out

>>510176871
Low Earth Orbit extends to the end of the magnetosphere which is defined as being 620 miles to 1,200 miles from Earth's surface. beyond that is deep space.
>WE WENT TO THE MOON
>doesn't even know what deep space is
uneducated dumbfuck

>>510171659 (OP)
Elon took multiple attempts to get a rocket to land without exploding. Yet in the 60, with 60's tech, they made it to the moon, landed, sand took back off agin.
Really gets the noggin a joggin'. ("noggin", "joggin", is that phrase rayciss?)

>>510176931
If you mean beyond the Van Allen belts then yes they did.

>>510176693
based, if I don't know about something, it can't hurt me!

>>510176862
jews are the ones saying it didn't happen because good old boys from Alabama accomplished the mission. Nice try Takeshi (rankeet)

>>510176972
no they didn't. 1,400km is less than 1,200 miles
fuck you

>>510176011
it's really not the biggest hurdle, since you can shield from it; the bigger hurdles are delta-v, food, oxygen, fuel, water, all other supplies, replacement parts, mechanical failures, and so on. the further you get away from the sun, the less radiation, too. gravity is also a bigger problem due to bones breaking down and muscle wasting, but simulated gravity can help this.

i'd say the biggest hurdle is life itself, or better, space. we don't live long enough to get anywhere of note, and colony ships aren't really feasible.

>>510171659 (OP)
Space is fake and gay!

>>510176768
>but we got it 'first try' lmao ya right.
We killed astronauts an apollo, on the ground even.
https://www.astronomy.com/space-exploration/apollo-1-tragedy-the-fatal-fire-and-its-aftermath/

>>510171659 (OP)
Actually it’s 9 launches total. The 1 launch with the payload then at least 8 refueling launches. Meanwhile China will do a single stage to orbit with their 250 ton lunar lander and mini habitat

>>510177001
exactly
>NASA now admits radiation is the biggest hurdle to human space travel
>>510177016
NASA says it's a problem, I guess you're smarter than NASA because "you can just shield against it"
sorry were the astronauts that moonwalked being shielded too? lmao no they weren't. whoops.

>>510177034
China is absolutely crushing it these days. I’ve been thinking about defecting there.

>>510177030
yeah and then first try we landed on the moon and now we don't even go 1% of the way to the moon and consider the atmosphere space because we don't want to look like liars

>>510177010
The bot is calling you a faggot.

>>510175566
Unfortunately they were weaver eggs and the lathe they were supposed to operate malfunctioned and killed all of them.
>China.

>>510177209
>be chinese spider
>8 legs
>each one gets stuck in an escalator
>shredded to pieces

>>510171659 (OP)
mass. It's all about mass. The original Apollo architecture was all about saving mass at every step, which is why the lunar module had two stages, a lander and an ascender.

Which is why converting an entire fucking Starship into a reusable lander and launcher is so stupid. More mass and SSTO requires more fuel, hence the need for refueling first.

>>510177205
According to NASA LEO extends to 1,200 miles from Earth's surface, no idea where you're getting 200km but regardless 1,400km from Earth's surface is no where near the distance to the moon. Not even 1%.
>>510177209
>malfunctioned
good thing we didn't malfunction when we went to the moon, that would have looked bad huh. we just did it in a studio

>>510177115
You are really stupid.

>>510177330
So if they can in fact survive the van allen belts what is stopping them from going further faggot?

>>510176553
The survival rate for elephants and blue whales is also projected to be zero in deep space.
>Therefore billions must die.

>>510177004
> jews are the ones saying it didn't happen
No. Jew are the ones in the media and academia that run cover. The boys in Alabama are the ones pointing out how ridiculous it is.

>>510171659 (OP)
Nukes are fake and gay. Ayys are fake and gay. NASA is fake and gay. This thread? Oh you'd better believe it... Fake and gay.

Niggers tongue my Uranus.

>>510177387
they didn't leave the magnetosphere which also protects from radiation just like our atmosphere does.
>>510177397
since 1972 there is a 100% death rate for living creatures outside of LEO

>>510177491
The van allen belts ARE the radiation.

>>510177115
It wasn't as a blank sheet design as you think. The mercury program was figuring out how to build rockets and get people into space. The next program - Gemini - knew the moon was the real effort and developed a huge amount of technology like orbital docking which would be needed in apollo. I think our first space walk was in Gemini.

The moon landing (apollo 11) was the 5th crewed flight of the apollo program. Then Apollo 13 went sideways. And a crew (of basically national heroes) got killed in that ground fire. It isn't like this was easy.

Fun fact: The Moon is actually so close that during part of its orbit around the Earth, it is in the very tail end of Earth's atmosphere as it gets pushed away from the Earth by the Sun.

Because nature doesn't like half way or step back options.
Everything is designed for ''all in" events. Gravity is a trap and the only way to escape a trap is to give your all and never look back. Evolution is about never looking back.

>>510177514
>The van allen belts ARE the radiation.
look into cosmic radiation
>>510177528
dude I know the history better than you. zero living creatures have survived deep space since allegedly 1972.
only 30 living creatures have allegedly survived outside of Low Earth Orbit
30.
and all of them between 1968 and 1972. why don't we send animals to the moon anymore? oh wait we do and they die.

>>510177073
the radiation out to lunar isn't all that bad. the issue is that it builds up over time, leading to a cumulative dose. you can shield a spacecraft/station to block the majority of it (less than 100-200 msv). you don't want to spend an extended amount of time outside.

>>510177650
What about it faggot?

>>510177091
> China is absolutely crushing it these days
No. Their green screens are way behind.

>>510177289
The first chinese industrial casualties on the moon.
>the aliens living there were no doubt relieved they wouldn't be turned into alien fin soup as soon as the chinks found them.

>>510177660
according to NASA the number one hurdle to human space travel is radiation
>what is Galactic Cosmic Radiation
>>510177674
the atmosphere and magnetic fields protect us from GCR. outside there is no protection. the van allen belts are NOT the source of the radiation, dipshit.

>>510177326
But this has been the arc of spaceX, and it has really worked out for them so far. I remember hearing about falcon9 and thinking the mass fraction would be all wonky, and it was a dumb idea - and yet it clearly all worked out. Obsessing about mass fraction and specific impulse rather than the economics of the end-to-end system was wrong. It is the difference between NASA and a business oriented guy.

>>510172473
We have the technology...

>>510173134
Agreed. starship needs a total redesign. Once we can get into space easily and cheaply humanity has basically won.

>>510177330
>good thing we didn't malfunction when we went to the moon
The benefits of having a german/white/anglosaxon engineering team cannot be overstated when it comes to crew survivability.

>>510177724
What exactly do you mean by "GCR" faggot? Be specific.

>>510177794
why don't we send animals, at least? oh wait we do and they die.
>>510177802
read my image. GCR = galactic cosmic radiation. it comes from celestial bodies, the van allen belts coincide with our magnetic field which protects us from radiation along with out atmosphere.

>>510177852
And what type of radiation is that faggot?

>>510177434
Dear God...american women are fucking awful

>>510177874
cosmic.

>>510177491
You keep on saying that. Of course you haven't posted anything which supports that claim or explains the circumstances involved in the experiments.
>100% of steel breaks when tested to failure. Therefore steel is a psyop.

>>510177899
I sped be specific faggot. What type of radiation? Alpha, beta, gamma?

>>510173403
The B2 doesn't even go supersonic.

>>510177768
>. Once we can get into space easily and cheaply humanity has basically won.
lol. lmao even. After musk develops the tech the jews/psycopaths will creep in. Look at mexico creeping in and trying to stop launches due to debris. Look at the USG trying to stop launches though the FAA because Elon bought twitter (and drove him into the arms of Trump). Pretty soon we will have intergovernmental commissions of who will control mars' resources. Who can acquire the resources of asteroids. The objective will be to keep the status quo intact.

This never stops.

>>510177908
it's common knowledge dude. we send tardigrades up, they die, we sent plants and spider eggs - they die.
>>510177925
common knowledge, fuck off retard

>>510177994
Then you will have no trouble answering the question faggot.

>>510177968
Hell, the Apollo program got canned because we needed to pay for the war in Vietnam, and the great society (welfare) programs. It isn't like we couldn't have had mars bases in the 1980's from a technical perspective. Its due to an abject failure of government and leadership.

>>510176553
My grandfather was a lead engineer for TRW designed and built the satellite that monitored the radiation emitted by the sun into the Van Allen belt for the Apollo missions.
Here's a brief rundown. Not that your Dr. Banjo ass will listen or believe it.
https://science.thewire.in/the-sciences/apollo-11-van-allen-radiation-belts-translunar-injection/

I don't want to live on this planet anymore

>>510177724
nasa can think it's the number one hurdle, but it's not. experiencing ~200 times the level of radiation when open to space will increase your risk of cancer fairly quickly, but that's why you spend as little time in open space as possible.

>>510175452
Did they have big gloves on while doing that?

>>510171659 (OP)
did he say how many H1B jeets it will take?

>>510177925
well its protons so i guess that makes it alpha. Get to your point already if you have one.

>>510171659 (OP)
Public subsidies are ending. Bullshiting mode activated.

>>510177994
Then you can easily post proof.
>So far the only evidence is your infographic.... which also claims 24 people went into deep space and survived. So by your own admission you are wrong.

>>510178373
What does it take to block an alpha particle?

>>510177877
I really don't get it that people find Katy Perry attractive

>>510178398
there's no such thing as an alpha particle.

>>510178458
Faggot.

>>510174629
You might enjoy this if you haven't seen it already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KSahAoOLdU&list=PL-_93BVApb59FWrLZfdlisi_x7-Ut_-w7

those nasa guys sure were dumb to make such highly detailed maps of the apollo landing sites so every body else could easily prove the whole thing was a fake for the next fifty years

>>510178482
Get. To. Your. Point. Socrates.
You learned something in highschool about different types of radiation and now youre bothering us about it instead of getting to your point.

>>510175991
Can you explain the upside down umbrella antenna to me? Is that supposed to be transmitting back to earth as it is bounding round all over the place, and bouncing extra high in 1/6th gravity?

>>510178409
She was hot and naked one point in her music career.

>>510178398
> What does it take to block an alpha particle?
Almost anything. Alpha particles are large so they don’t penetrate the skin. Not very dangerous.

>>510178578
Cosmic radiation is charged particle radiation (alpha and beta). Both of these can be blocked by a sheet of metal (like the spaceship is made of). Gamma takes more but neither is it involved with Earth's magnetic field as it is not charged particle radiation.

>>510178746
It's gamma radiation that really fucks you up.

>>510174629
>>510178488
Destin does a great job of shitting on nasa for being a bunch of retards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoJsPvmFixU&t=1372s

>>510178527
>Look da-da, I drew a map! I’m an astronaut!

Man these gullible retards kill me

>>510178128
The real cost of such project would have been R&D, churning out consecutive missions after it's been done would cost pennies in comparison.
We are here because the R&D haven't been done yet, simple as that.

>510176185
There always used to be a leaf flag shilliing hard for it

>>510178757
That is all true. Protons and electrons are electrically charged, everyone knows that, and photons are not. Gamma is basically photons and if photons were electrically charged, the universe would look insane. You could have just said that instead of asking us questions that you knew the answer to.

>>510178128
Apollo was canned just after the Soviets had launched a radar ship which would have actually be able to track moon missions - or lack of them.

Here is a PDF copy of the report that was written about the failures and successes of the Apollo missions. There were 17 Apollo missions (and God knows how much more testing on Earth).
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19720005243/downloads/19720005243.pdf

>>510179053
Thus all it takes to get through the Van Allen belts is a metal spaceship thus the "it was all fake" faggots bringing it up do not have a point.

>>510173618
>lost
whoops, we just accidentally misplaced an entire civilization. better look under the couch

Can someone explain to me why these thread are always full of leafs and bongs simping for elon? I just can't figure out what the intersection of leafs, bongs and elon fangirls is.

>>510175260
>>510173618
We lost the technology to my 50 year old washing machine. Un-ironically.

>>510172393
>need to get back into earth orbit (hard)
Do they plan to aerobrake or do they plan to just burn to get a stable orbit before re-entry?

>>510179155
>leafs
little india
>bongs
medium india - currently under attack by indians, muslims from pakistan, etc
>elon
South African who is the biggest indian dick sucker in existence because they're willing to work for pennies on the dollar 24/7 for him.

>>510173847
>Sped up footage
>GUYS IT LOOKS WEIRD
Retards

>>510179155
Canada and the UK are extremely disproportionally represented in aerospace engineering.

>>510179197
Please watch my video if you have the time but it starts at 22:00 minutes explaining what the plan is. And also 21 minutes(?) it gives a comparison to the Apollo missions and what was done differently. The mission plan is completely different and that's part of the reason why the retards (within context) don't know what to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoJsPvmFixU

The biggest question is still how NASA can just wipe all their tech and saying we lost all the tech to land on the moon. Well shiet if you call that shit a great leap for mankind why they don't preserve it, i mean every single shit that make it happened should've been preserved but even worse NASA archive literally erase them

>>510178783
read your article nigger
>A jagged fist-size stone with reddish tints, it was mounted and placed above a plaque that said, "With the compliments of the Ambassador of the United States of America ... to commemorate the visit to The Netherlands of the Apollo-11 astronauts." The plaque does not specify that the rock came from the moon's surface.

It was given at the opening of an exhibition on space exploration.

It was on show in 2006, and a space expert informed the museum it was unlikely NASA would have given away any moon rocks three months after Apollo returned to Earth.

>>510174353
Compare driving to work, which every human can trivially do, to having your car drive you there WITHOUT ai, just conventional code. This is why getting probes anywhere is so hard too. There's also delays in communication. Humans in the driving seat could have made all that shit work even in the 60s on a calculator'a Power and did. The problem was always only COSTS to get humans anywhere alive. The ∆v increase from extra mass and redundant systems always makes costs exponentially higher.

>>510179543
I have a radio from the 1920s? that we lost the tech for.

i simp for Elon because nobody else does fuckin ANYTHING, and they shit on someone who does SOMETHING because its not just the way they would have done it if they were doing anything (which they are not)

You have a problem with Elon's space program, point at someone who does it better. I member where we were before Elon, there was fuckin nothing nowhere.

it's like those people who have really shitty personality, but they set high standards regarding other people

>>510179543
do you understand how flammable microfiche is nimwit?

>>510178656
That's the high gain antenna that transmitted audio, video and, data to earth. It only had to receive audio back.

>>510173847
people should really be asking what the apollo missions were actually for

>>510178818
>nasa for being a bunch of retards

Now or then and now?

>>510179719
> nobody else does fuckin ANYTHING
Not true

>>510179764
Then they should do better at preservation instead burning it duh!

>>510171659 (OP)
China will take care of colonization of Moon. The age of amerimutts is over.

>>510179881
> what the apollo missions were actually for
That’s whole other rabbit hole

>>510180152
They can't even make the doors on their boats open the right way.

>>510180152
>Chinese Final Destination 2: IN SPAAAAAACE

>>510179882
Now. Back then they had literal "Nazi" German scientists leading everything, hired intelligent White men from the south. That's how they accomplished everything.

>>510180155
but it is the real question. this is how multi-layer cover works. keep people debating over the limited hang out so they ignore the real secret being hidden.

>mRNA vaccines are a biological weapons platform

just to give an example of how this works

>>510180472
> Back then they had literal "Nazi" German scientists leading everything hired intelligent White men from the south
Sure leave out the jewish movie director.

>>510180472
> Back then they had literal "Nazi" German scientists leading everything hired intelligent White men from the south
Sure leave out the jewish movie director.

>>510180662
> the real secret being hidden
Alright, then come out and say it.

>>510171659 (OP)
I( dunno why don't we get Michael Healy-Rae to do one o the cheap, lidl special offer style. Get a fuckinngg horse parked on the moon like. Give us somehwre to store connor mcgregor people before profit commies and simon harris and his legion of faggots

>>510177034
Could be wrong, but I thought that the Long march 5 only puts up to 25 tons in LEO. Are they going to duct tape 6 of them together or something?

>>510172647
Woow, 3 body problem, so I guess the astronauts won't find Earth anymore because it spun out of the Sun Moon Earth system

>>510179586
We discarded it because we've already had improved versions.
No fucking problems whatsoever in recreating 1920s radios kek.

>>510179764
Imbeciles which would not able to preserve their documentation surely would not able to accomplish the "the greatest achievement of humankind" either kek.

>>510180968
>kubrick publicly announced it to the entire world
eyes to hear and ears to see bro

>>510171659 (OP)
the actual answer for all the retards itt is this
>Saturn V had 3 stages while Starship has 2
>Saturn V used liquid hydrogen for 2 and 3 while Starship uses methane which has a smaller specific impulse (it means less thrust per unit of mass). Why? It's easier to manufacture and store
>Saturn V is not reusable

>>510175219
Get on my level

>>510172647
> solve it by hand

>>510175901
Most of that mass is just the lander. It will send 2 people to the moon's surface.

>>510171659 (OP)
I think it has something to do with Starship having 173x the mass of the Apollo command and service module.
Hell, assuming you could cram them in there, Starship has a mass capacity to *carry* 3 fueled Apollo command and service modules.
All that takes a fuckload of fuel. What I want to know is how much Mars transfer is going to take.
SpaceX may have to spend a year just launching fuel, along with extra boosters.
By the way, in case there are any SpaceX engineers lurking, in space, you can have as many stages as you want.
Well, I suppose engine vibration might limit that eventually, but more importantly there's no wind to knock your tower down.

>>510181799
It's effectively a 2 body problem because the mass of the spaceship is negligible and so is the Sun's influence since the Earth's orbit is not very eccentric. I don't know wtf he's talking about

>>510181857
I don't get him on this one. 4 out of 5 jeets aren't qualified for the jobs the H1B their way into.

>>510179719
SpaceX is an entrenched monopoly that uses its incumbent advantages to try to undercut other companies that have yet to reach the same scale and technology level as SpaceX. See for example how they undercut Rocket Lab with rideshare missions, causing Rocket Lab to mostly pivot its business to things other than launch.

>>510172393
Why is it hard to leave orbit once you're in it? I thought it would just take time at that point unless you're like in a really low orbit? I thought the only hard parts fuel economy wise is taking off and landing coming and going.

>>510181968
he knows they work for pennies on the dollar

>>510181941
> It's effectively a 2 body problem because the mass of the spaceship is negligible
How can we even have a solar system with regular predictable orbits?

>>510181857
>Entitlement
Like reasonable work conditions and pay?

>>510171659 (OP)
Real answer:
The delta v (change in velocity) required to land on the lunar surface and then return to Earth is significantly greater than that required to just go to orbit.

>>510182121
But their work costs actually competent people to fix it after it fails. Look at what outsourcing to jeets has cost Boing. I understand greed and hubris, but this seems observably shortsighted.

>>510181900
From musk's last talk landing on mars didn't appear to take much more than a trip to and return from the moon. The delta-v info-graphic above seems to corroborate this.

>>510182202
Because the solar system had 4.5 billion years to brute force the problem.

>>510171659 (OP)
No more nazis to hold our hands all the way there

>>510182110
you have to expend energy/fuel to shift orbits. up and down. When you get low enough maybe you can dump energy with atmospheric braking.

>>510182680
How do you explain the motion of every object orbiting every planet in our solar system? The motion of every planet in every solar system in our galaxy? The motion of every solar system in every galaxy? All brute force so the 3 body problem doesn’t apply?

>>510178172
> Dr. Banjo ass
It’s not Dr. Banjo, it’s non-Whites and their jew handlers that want to diminish the accomplishments of White heterosexual men.
>it couldn’t have happened bc you didn’t have women and poos and chinks! It’s all fake!

>>510180968
One of the prevailing theories is that it was a dick measuring contest to prove who's missiles were better and thus who would ICBM the other the hardest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEkvY0DTZ_U

>>510182655
Either I'm retarded or someone forgot to post pic

>>510172446
>Another thing to understand is that even 8 Starship launches for a 50 ton lunar payload would still cost less than the ONE Artemis SLS launch with its tiny 9 ton payload.
But can Starship reach orbit, unlike SLS?

>>510183172
As I understand it, the soviets had a leg up in the space race because they overestimated the mass of their future nuclear warheads - but the US had a better grip on the numbers. So the early russian icbms were better for a manned program than the US'

>>510183172
> it was a dick measuring contest to prove who's missiles were better
This is the standard narative.

>>510183172
They also talked about actually having moon based nukes which would be practically impossible to intercept. Not to mention project A119

>>510183247
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta-v_budget#/media/File:Solar_system_delta_v_map.svg

link reposted.

>>510182947
How does a drop of rain calculate its telemetry relative to untold numbers of varying gravity wells? It falls.

How does a rocket calculate it's telemetry between two well established orbits? The same fucking thing.
You jump from one trench to another. How those trenches formed is irrelevant to your journey.

>>510182065
pretty based of SpaceX

>>510173442
>too retarded to make space elevator

anon... there is no physical material that would suspend such a device its physically impossible without some yet undiscovered super strong tensile material. If you were not retarded you would know this

>>510173442
>>510183671
It's also a central piece of infrastructure that makes it more vulnerable to sabotage, unlike a ship that can lift itself.

>>510171659 (OP)
The further you need to go, the more fuel you need.
The more fuel you need, the more weight you need to push into orbit
The more weight you need to push into orbit, the more fuel you need.
The more fuel you need, the more weight you need to push into orbit.

See the problem?
The issue is that the original moon rockets were designed from the ground up to push enough fuel into orbit to reach the moon. But the Starship is a proprietary mass-producible design made to move lightweight objects into orbit. It's not designed to carry that much weight, hence the need to divide it into several launches, making for an extremely inefficient solution.

The takeaway is that the Starship rocket is not good at things it was not designed to do, and that if a moon mission were a serious undertaking, it would be more cost-effective to design and develop a dedicated earth-to-orbit-to-moon platform that could carry the necessary fuel and weight in a single launch. In practice Musk is probably just making a pitch for more government funding, and I wouldn't really take anything he says at face value.

>>510183064
You may be right and to some extent certainly are, but there are also a lot of contrarian obtuse retards out there. I still believe Mike Hughes was an elaborate suicide. Or possibly negligent/intentional homicide by whoever helped him build the rocket. There was absolutely no way he was ever going to survive that and he didn't get nearly high enough to prove his point even if he survived.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21nPJY4le10

>>510183469
Oh, Luna->Mars is roughly the same as Geo->Luna.
I was thinking Geo->Luna ~= Geo->Mars which didn't make sense.
In any event, that's still going to require 81+ launches.
Thanks for the link, fren.

>>510183487
You can’t have the standard model of the solar system without universal gravitation. You can’t have universal gravitation without the 3 body problem. You can’t have the 3 body problem and regular predictable orbits (the standard model of the solar system). The space program is fake and gay.

>>510174531
they said the same thing about columbus... they will say the same thing about solar exploration/settlement, and the same about extra solar exploration/settlement.

The real unachievable goal is not having retards on earth holding everything back

>>510183456
>>Moon based nukes

Okay now you are just a literal retard that makes no sense. In no way does "moon based nukes" make any sense. Thats like north korea saying a diesel engined submarine is "totally silent"

>>510171659 (OP)
Global warming is trapping us here, with the increase in green house gases the density to push through the atmosphere is greatly impacted

>>510183456
They already had a limited understanding of low observability principals. A constellation of "stealth" geosynchronous reentry vehicles would have been much more effective both time of flight to target and cost.

>>510183920
>3 body problem
I do think that 3 body problem doesnt have anything to do with anything mentioned in this thread in practical terms. Its something different and unrelated. So I dont know why youre bringin it up.
I havent done any research, and im basing my understanding on a scifi book "The Three-Body Problem" by Liu Cixin (which is pretty good)

>>510177968
>>510178128
Perverted resentment psychology.

>>510183920
Okay then what's keeping your ass on the ground?
Does that force function on an inverse square of the distance between objects which manifestly fall towards one another?

There is absolutely no one that can convince me that moon landing is real. It is real as a concept, and that's about it.

>>510184276
Can I just say I applaude the fact that you chose a meme flag cause you didnt want to shame your country's flag when you made this post. You're a patriot.

>>510183849
It was suicide. Estranged middle aged men kill themselves all the time. Why not do it in an awesome way rather than quietly creating a puddle of liquefied flesh, discovered months later when the stench permeates the walls of your single bedroom apartment? It's a sad fact of life, roasties turn into cat lady Karens with a goatee and their male counterparts blow their brains out. Sam Hyde put it best when he said, "Arguing with Flat Earthers is the ultimate midwit pursuit, and you might as well be arguing with someone about being a Juggalo. It's a hobby."

>>510172364
Why can't we hire Poles to make a giant pyramid of Poles with a really long fuel line to the edge of space?

>>510176423
It's a big wide world, we are not limited to whatever is happening in America.

>>510176553
With recent rapid advances in artificial intelligence it has become a lot more feasible to achieve a self-sustaining economy on the moon or any other thin atmosphere planet using solely robots. There is no need for organic life at this point.

>>510184031
Please be joking.

>>510184397
You are a dumb retard to fall for this stupid lie.

>>510184455
He did it in front of a crowd many of whom were friends and family. I suspect if anything it was an elaborate death spectacle so that he would be remembered as one of the great retards of all time.

>>510179719
I would prefer nothing to polluting low earth orbit in order to give niggers internet and blowing up countless rockets. Elmo has no intention of sending men to Mars, or even the Moon.

>>510184172
For those of you lurking who may not know what the math nerds are arguing about:
QRD on the 3 body problem is you cannot predict the motion of 3 bodies interacting with one another using classical mechanics aka Newtonian gravity. This point is not in dispute.
What the expat gooner is trying to extrapolate from this is that because we cannot predict a thing, it somehow cannot happen.
I'm not sure if it's autism or purified egocentrism to think that reality requires a mathematical model to exist, but despite his objections humans continue to throw objects to another and catch them, something his father clearly never did with him.

>>510174873
Yeah no shit, it's sped up specifically so it can look weird.

>>510184172
> I dont know why youre bringin it up.
Fair enough. The 3 body problem affects astrophysics and space travel. When 3 or more bodies exert a force such as gravity on each their motion quickly becomes chaotic and unpredictable. Issac Newton himself was not able to apply his own theory of universal gravity to the sun moon and earth and predict their observed motion. The theory of universal gravity and/or the currently accepted model of cosmology is/are false. The space program is a hoax.

>>510184961
> humans continue to throw objects to another and catch them
2 body problem and the motion of the ball is predictable.
t.someone who played catch with his dad

Not enough Vrill
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h0oclM1Yw2A&pp=ygUMbmFzYSBhcnRlbWlz

>>510185166
Everyone knows perfectly well Newton theory is incorrect, nobody is denying that. It's a (good enough) approximation of Einstein's theory of relativity.

I wont argue with you because I think you're a crazy person. You take these true facts and then make certain crazy deductive leaps from them.

>>510185595
> I think you're a crazy person
Fair enough. If I came across someone saying this when I was younger, I would have thought the same.

>>510175607
>>510184613
One or several craft are "planned" to be used only to transit cargo and people from LEO to low lunar orbit, but some are also planned to land and some of those are being theorized to be repurposed and used as part of the initial permanent facilities on the moon. How's that British lunar program going again?