Thread 510467440

Why is it so hard for capitalists to share with their workers?

>>510467440 (OP)
>the radical idea of sharing....
or else.

Socialism: the radical idea of stealing.

>>510467440 (OP)
As a Christian Evangelical Zionist American, I believe that freedom comes from God and that each person is created with purpose and the right to prosper through their own efforts. Scripture teaches stewardship and generosity, not forced redistribution. True compassion cannot be legislated. It must come from the heart.

>>510467934
>extracts surlplus value from labor
>also hates the government despite the government being the only thing enforcing property rights

>>510467440 (OP)
The thing I'm pro for that is leftist, is the sharing and "copyleft" idea of free software, imagine if you applied that in an extensible way in business, and borg'd an entire nation due to competitive advantage.
I'd be in favor, I love organization and speed

>>510467440 (OP)
Whats yours is mine and whats mine is none of your business more luke. Socialists are takers without contribution.

>>510468166
>Socialists are takers without contribution.
they take from you, everything
and give to you...nothing.

This is going to be a high quality thread where OP comes back and discusses this insightful post with us.

>>510468073
>extracts surlplus value from labor
Value doesn't come from labor.

>>510467934
Fuck off kike
If only we were all white it wouldn't be an issue to share
We would be national socialist
But Capitalism is kept alive by whites because only whites can be trusted with it in a nation full of browns

>>510467440 (OP)
National socialism: the radical idea of sharing with your nation. Why do filthy commies hate the Windmill of Friendship so much?

>>510468365
>If only we were all white it wouldn't be an issue to share
>We would be national socialist
I don't know about that.

>>510468357
>Value doesn't come from labor.
Lol, then where else does it come from?

>>510468357
>>510468893
Define value.

>>510468893
>where else does it come from?
"Value" is a dynamic between buyers and sellers.

>>510468893
If you want the entire value of your labor, then start your own business retard.

>>510467440 (OP)
muh based nigger knows

>>510467440 (OP)
>sharing
you mean stealing?

its not sharing its the gov who force you to give your money to them so they can take a big cut and keep other people poor so they keep their job helping noone but themself. did you ever see someone in the gov strugling. they all have high paying job with all the extra on the side.

>>510468365
>share
You're stealing and you know it, stealing from your own people no less. Lying theiving typical socialist.

>>510469315
Based nigger spitting truths. However, capitalism neither works nor sounds good. It also practically doesn't exist.

>>510467440 (OP)
>Socialism: the radical idea that poor should be forced to share while the polit bureau and riches do whatever the fuck they want

The thing is, is the concepts of these systems themselves and the language used behind them are not kept up with technology and purposely done so to keep the status quo and let people in power retain and hoard it.

The labor theory of value is a lie and easy proof is the internet and the siphoning of money to grifters and those that have a platform to obtain money and gacha games.

Everyone agrees that the government should up the quality of life for its citizens and provide safety nets, but again the language behind it is purposefully twisted to be put in these retarded boxes of capitalism vs communism vs socialism.

Some easy actual change that would be beneficial and im sure lefty retards and incel chuds would agree on is that their should be some sort of laws prohibiting residential housing being an "investment". Having normal prices for the medical industry (ie. A pill of Tylenol not costing $20 in a hospital). Putting terms on politicians.

More extreme is AI integration into society and allowing it to completely change academia and the justice system.

>>510469221
Yes, a glass of water is worthless to someone standing in the rain but priceless to someone in a desert. I think we’re less concerned with how buyers and sellers perceive value, and more with how workers create value through labor.

When you buy a product in a store, you think you’re just exchanging money for something you want. The price seems “fair” based on market value. But the labor that went into producing that product often involved workers being paid less than the value their labor added. That gap (surplus) is embedded in the price you pay, but you don’t see it because it’s obscured by the market negotiation between buyer and seller.

In other words, subjective value masks structural exploitation. The buyer and seller may feel they reached a fair deal, but that deal only exists because someone, somewhere, produced that good under conditions where their labor was undervalued and their surplus extracted.

>>510467440 (OP)

Socialism is the absurd idea of solving the abuses of capitalism by giving all the power to distribute resources to the government which is even more corrupt and abusive than capitalists.

>>510468073
You have no idea what private property is because you're a socialist moron who doesn't believe in private property rights.
>extracts surlplus value from labor
Socialists extract value from labor with taxes and central banking with the threat of violence, this is called slavery.

>>510469315
>oft referenced American golden age circa 1950’s when America was at its most socialized
>upward mobility and political power of middle class made ruling class feel threatened
>gold standard abandoned
>social systems neutered and dismantled
>labor pool flooded with women and minorities
Socialism works fine when (((you))) aren’t allowed to sabotage it.

>>510469790
>workers create value through labor
Again, "value" is a dynamic between sellers and buyers. Workers sell their labor. That's the only place where "value" and "labor" connect.

>>510467440 (OP)
expect when you are forced to share, it really isn't sharing at that point.

>>510468266
That's not true, they'll give you a food stamp so you can wait in the government bread line for a moldy piece of shit loaf of bread and maybe an egg if you're lucky, while they rape you with taxes and confiscate everything you own for the greater good, oh and don't criticize the noble leader or you might disappear you ungrateful capitalist scum.

>>510470076
>expect when you are forced to share, it really isn't sharing at that point.
Forcing the rich to share at gunpoint is a pretty good idea. Certainly sounds better than being forced at gunpoint to wage under "capitalism". I can see why people find it appealing.

>>510469790
Another example where labor value is exploited is the FIRE sector (Finance, Insurance, and Real Estate). It often doesn’t create new value through productive labor; instead, it extracts value created elsewhere, usually from those engaged in productive work like manufacturing, agriculture, transportation, or care labor.

This is a parasitic relationship where unproductive capital feeds off productive labor while claiming efficiency or merit. It’s a system where wealth concentrates without creation, and the illusion of value exchange hides the reality of systemic extraction.

This is a very real and structural dynamic, not a conspiracy or abstraction. Unproductive sectors like finance and real estate systematically extract wealth created by working people, and the economy treats that as normal.

>>510470305
Thanks, ChatGPT. Now, if you would consult the post: >>510469998

>>510467440 (OP)
They won’t do it unless forced to with the barrel of a gun. That’s why we must eat the billionaires. Tax them mark to market like property tax all assets. Too bad magats worship the rich

>>510469790
>I think we’re less concerned with how buyers and sellers perceive value, and more with how workers create value through labor.
You're literally begging the question you thieving socialist retard.

>>510469998
You’re correct that value is realized through exchange. But that doesn’t refute surplus extraction; it explains how it’s hidden inside the wage contract. Labor isn’t intrinsically valuable, but it’s uniquely generative, and that’s why it becomes the central site of economic conflict.

>>510470503
Yes all socialists want to kill and steal everyone already knows that, do you have anything new or interesting to say? I doubt it.

>>510470541
Is taxation theft yes or no

>>510469822
>Socialists extract value from labor with taxes and central banking with the threat of violence, this is called slavery.
It's called the only way to have capitalism. Free market capitalism has never been tried because that would mean the entire economy is a memecoin.

>>510467440 (OP)
The same reason why Walmart and Amazon can drive all of their competitors out of business. Everyone wants to pay less.

>>510470520
Nothing says airtight economic reasoning like slurs and a bold refusal to define the premise you’re attacking.

>>510470541
Sorry, unless you can frame your garbage in terms that account for what "value" is in objective reality, it remains a bunch of incoherent ideological rhetoric.

>>510467440 (OP)
humans are greedy
people's morality stops the moment it effects their bottomline
dollar to donuts if every unwanted child being born resulted in a tax on everyone in a magical way that couldn't be avoided 99% of pro life people would do a 180 and become pro abortion .

>>510467440 (OP)
>sharing at gunpoint
Never forget the men with guns that enforce this 'sharing'.

>>510467440 (OP)

What happens after you tell someone that you will not be sharing is exactly why socialism is a plague and disease in the world.
An ideology for intellectually bankrupt and lazy thinkers who think plucking flower petals and playing a tambourine will lead them to prosperity.

>>510470722
I apologize let me adjust my incoherent ideological rhetoric to fit the sacred template of objective value so it finally earns your blessing.

>>510467440 (OP)
>Forced sharing

>>510467934
>noooo you can't steal from rich parasites
lolberts mang...

>>510470838
>What happens after you tell someone that you will not be sharing is exactly why socialism is a plague and disease in the world.
Not really. The plague and disease in the world is what happens when you tell "capitalists" that you won't be waging for them.

>>510469716
>im sure lefty retards and incel chuds would agree on
It doesn't matter because the demoncrats and the republicunts both agree that you should have nothing and they should own everything. Policy change at this juncture is pointless, when every aspect of the system is meticulously set up (over centuries of pre planning) to benefit them and they don't follow the laws anyways. Only an entire upheaval of the system can allow meaningful change

>>510467440 (OP)
>Sharing a shrinking pie
GET ME OUTTA HERE

>>510469579
>You're stealing and you know it
It not stealing. Back when we lived it tribes the survival of the group was most important, so food and supplies were shared freely among the community because they realized a strong community increased survival odds.

Sharing is not the same as stealing. Capitalism has completely blinded you to insane greedy individualism.

>>510470891
Learn to think and talk coherently. Labor doesn't "create value". Labor creates products.

>>510469797
>government which is even more corrupt and abusive than capitalists
Very doubtful. Those evil corporate fucks, shareholders, and CEO's are the cruelest group of psychopaths on the planet.

>>510470940

>hurr my union just went on STRIKE. What do you think about, bourgeoisie?
>durr we just hired five hundred illegals to compensate for the lost labor
brainlet logic for sure

>>510471082
Sure because goods just materialize on shelves as if by magic making the human effort behind them totally irrelevant.

>>510470719
I said you are committing the begging the question fallacy, but you probably don't know what that is because you're a thieving socialist useful idiot.

>>510471099
I don't know or care what your irrelevant talking points are about. I'm just pointing out that your "capitalism" is effectively a system of slavery, so you and your ilk are hardly in a position to whinge about commies forcing people to do things.

>>510468073
My guns enforce property rights. If anything, the government gets in the way of that.

>>510470236
>being forced at gunpoint to wage under "capitalism"
Under capitalism you will work to make CEO's and shareholders richer or you will die! They own the fruits of your labor not you.

>>510471169
Learn to think and talk coherently. Labor doesn't "create value". Labor creates products.

>>510467440 (OP)
That sounds like a really bad idea to anyone with a realistic view of reality.
>>510467799
And that's why.

>>510470666
Is rent theft?

>>510470672
>The only way to have capitalism is to extract surplus labor at gunpoint, which is good, but extracting surplus labor is bad.
>Also i'm a socialist.
You sound like a schizophrenic.

>>510471169
As a follower of Christ and supporter of Israel I find it rich that you accuse me of a logical fallacy and call me a thieving socialist useful idiot all in the same breath. The Lord teaches us to seek truth and speak with grace so perhaps your words reveal more about your own heart than mine. Let us pray for wisdom to see our own faults before casting stones.

>>510470800
>humans are greedy
Wrong, humans are innately kind and want to share with others. Capitalism, wich is rule by money, forces humans to be greedy.

>>510471260
Ooops. This is for >>510471164

>>510470907
So being rich means you are a parasite.
But stealing from people via taxation with the threat of violence is not parasitic.
Black is white, up is down, 2+2=333333.

>>510471507
>being rich means you are a parasite.
Yes. It physically can't be any other way.

>But stealing from people via taxation with the threat of violence is not parasitic.
But that's just another thing the rich do.

>>510467440 (OP)
Because businesses exist ONLY to make as much money as possible and employ any means profitable. The more money you have the more influence you have and so the most influential people are the ones that seize profits at any cost.

>>510470993
If i take your property with the threat of violence thats stealing, correct? But if the government does it, it's not? Are you even able to justify such mental gymnastics to yourself?

>>510467799
That's beginning to look like a better and better idea the more late-stage capitalism we see.

>>510471630
They don't have is not their property and they are not using violent cohersion, but do have peaceful ways to get things done and is those that seem like camouflage to you

>>510471630
>If i take your property with the threat of violence thats stealing, correct? But if the government does it, it's not?
Quick question. Do anarkiddies and ancaps acknowledge freedom of association?

>>510470975
Kek.
>>510471295
Is commerce theft? You fucking retard?

>>510471218

>durr u dont work u dont eat
>hurr tHaT'S cOnTRoL
Fucking. Nitwit.

>>510467440 (OP)
Socialism is coersive by nature (dictatorship of the proletariat, no less). Sharing is voluntary, the opposite of socialism, which's a retarded word for looting.

Adam Smith was not creating a new ideology. He was making an observation about history. What was new about this era in history is industrialization and the adoption of hydrocarbon energy resources. Even though you input energy to obtain the hydrocarbons, the value of its potential does not match your input. This is what Adam Smith call "prodigal consumption". What he means is that basically you are just an energy consoomer. Oil is not capital because you didn't make it. You just found it in the ground and it comes out of your oil faucet. The demand to extract that energy requires you to immerse yourself in the stupid end products of industrial society that denies you life and requires you to exhaust yourself in futile efforts. Everything that you desire can be quantified by the ability to construct right angles in nature with energy you never had to make, and thus anything that threatens this is swiftly annihilated and conformed to its consumption habits. Yeah I mean the point here is that you didn't make that energy. You just found it. You are more like monkeys in a feeding frenzy who found a pile of bananas, and this is the best description of a leftists. You see, when you have to actually make your energy you can't live like a bimbo faggot. The faggotry is too expensive for energy producers.

The reason why you can't do cool things like nuclear energy is because nuclear energy is more like an energy machine or energy actuator. It is fixed capital. It does not compare at all to the hydrocarbons that are just there in the ground that you harvest from your oil faucet. But even if you had a box full of infinite energy you would still have to use that to make hydrocarbons. So as it turns out, you already have free energy. It doesn't get any better than hydrocarbons. It is this very fact that you did not have to make these hydrocarbons, that they just exist there for you and its free to obtain, is why you have all the problem that you have.

>>510471788
Again, I don't know what your mentally ill babble is about. I want to work. I just don't want to interact with the capitaloon economy in any way or offer capitaloons any services. Why am I forced to work for them?

>>510471384
What? You are babbling. I'm not trying to be mean, but you are at least a supporter of theft.

>>510467440 (OP)
The answer to this and to all questions

>>510471295
the problem with nigger like you using quote you hardly even understand on your good days is you don't understand we're far far far past that point Wall Street's commodified water, my dude
just try to imagine Adam Smith face if he was alive during 2008 and he knew Epstein JP Morgan and others jewish banks created toxic fiscal assets based on mortgage failures they were passing to each others until Epstein "pulled" the plug like a real jew
damn I wonder if he would end up concluding the US is a captured country

>>510471630
It's more of a protection racket. Yes, still stealing but at least you're protected from anybody else stealing your shit. If you don't like it you can always move to another country.

>>510471756
>Do anarkiddies and ancaps acknowledge freedom of association?
Of course? You would have to be retarded not to, that doesn't mean you give up your rights.

>>510472044
>Of course
Well, then. Society is a private club. If you don't like the rules, feel free to fuck off and start your own with different rules. No one is obligated to tolerate your presence. :^)

>>510471223
And what happens next? Some mexican guy hires 10 other mexicans, buys guns and shoots you.
The other option is you having to work 16 hours a day to feed yourself.
That's what anarcho-capitalism is.

>>510471755
What? Genuininely don't understand what you just wrote because it seems English is your second language.
>>510471583
>having wealth means you're a parasite
Ok, i don't think i have to explain why that's retarded but good luck with that.
>But that's just another thing the rich do.
That's what the government does, government is always the .most powerful asset of the rich.

>>510471383
The stock market and private property rights are capitalist aspects of the mixed economy we have. I literally think you're underage now.

>>510472316
>i don't think i have to explain why that's retarded
You do, actually. Otherwise, I accept your concession.

>government is always the .most powerful asset of the rich.
Thanks for elaborating on my true statement. Stealing from the poor at gunpoint via the government is just another thing the rich do.

>>510467440 (OP)
>Why is it so hard for capitalists to share with their workers?
>I just want to consoom more
Do you see the problem with this? You are already consooming the maximum amount possible. Jeff Bezos did not eat a billion donuts this morning. His money does not represent consumption. So what are you going to do with your share of Bezo's wealth? If you aren't going to control it, meaning, if you are not going to try to redeem it immediately for a billion donuts, then what would you do with it that is not already being done? Jeff Bezos is already making you as fat as possible within physical limits.

you see the only other option is to turn it off, or consume less

>>510467440 (OP)
>the radical idea of sharing
Someone elses stuff without permission

>>510467440 (OP)
Fox News says socialism is bad and I trust them so socialism is bad

>>510471985
At least you're admitting socialism is theft.
>Yes, still stealing but at least you're protected from anybody else stealing your shit.
Kek, yes i'm getting raped 10 times a day but at least someone else isnt trying to rape me, phew.
>If you don't like it you can always move to another country.
If you like stealing you can always move to North Korea.

>>510467440 (OP)
sharing, 90 percent of your shit with niggers and getting nothing in return.

>>510472316
>That's what the government does, government is always the .most powerful asset of the rich.
government insures private ownership. gold would be worthless if anyone could take it

>>510472601
>If you like stealing you can always move to North Korea.
If you like maximum negative freedom, move to an uninhabited island.

>>510468357
>bananas não vêm de bananeiras
Tu é um pardo pobre

>>510467440 (OP)
There exists a compromise between socialism and capitalism. That being land only socialism. Every person should have an equal share of a countries land. In practice this would likely mean land value tax coupled with citizens dividend. In such a system, capitalism would be used for everything besides land ownership.

>>510472178
You would be right if i had the right to secede but I don't, no one does, i never signed the mythical social contract, no one did, it's a bunch of BS.

You can't give up your rights even voluntarily, it's like saying that someone can voluntarily enslave themselves, then if you change your mind your slaver can just keep you enslaved because you signed a contract and then whip you and beat you to death, i don't buy into that for obvious reasons.

>>510471714
great idea until you realize that the kikes wont be sharing.

taxes are not a novel idea, making them 100% is as much a moral hazard as it is disfunctional

Communists genocide and enslave Christians and Muslims. They lie to the people to seize godless power.

>>510472833
>If you like maximum negative freedom, move to an uninhabited island.
See, this is where capitalism, communism, fascism and all other systems of slavery agree: you are NOT ALLOWED to do so. They monopolize all remotely habitable lands and then extract life energy from you at gunpoint.

>>510472998
These people are useful idiots of the CCP, and by extension, the zionist Jews.

>>510472998

Wtf I'm a communist now

>>510472898
>You can't give up your rights even voluntarily, it's like saying that someone can voluntarily enslave themselves, then if you change your mind your slaver can just keep you enslaved because you signed a contract and then whip you and beat you to death, i don't buy into that for obvious reasons
Ironically that would literally happen to at least 90% of the people in anarcho-capitalism.

>>510472898
>You would be right if i had the right to secede but I don't, no one does, i never signed the mythical social contract, no one did, it's a bunch of BS.
Well there you go. Your favorite slavery system doesn't change this situation.

>>510467440 (OP)
Why is it so hard for Chad and Stacy to share sex and relationships with incels?

>>510472998
based

>>510473031
See, this is a much better point than the memeflag retard is making.
Yes, i agree. That's a problem.

>>510472868
Still theft.
>>510472833
If you like maximum positive freedom go live in North Korea, these are silly rhetorical games socialists like to play.
>>510472561
Yeah fox news constantly criticizes central banking.
>>510472405
You speak like a moron. Give me your definition of private property.
>>510472781
>gold would be worthless if anyone could take it
What? Anyone can take Gold, i'm starting to think socialists have some kind of mental deficiency.
>government insures private ownership
Government ensures private ownership by confiscating it? Ok then.

>>510472998
Stop making me like commies

socialism works great in white only countries
but when you include arabs, nigs etc. - it all falls apart
Marx knew this
thats why USSR fell, all this diversity bullshit and letting in arabs and africans

>>510467440 (OP)
>*international socialism* aka jewish bolshevism/communism
the radical idea of you giving away your ancestors' legacy to brown people
>national socialism aka Nazism
the radical idea of you keeping widows, orphans, and old people from starving to death in the street, and working together with people of your own race (your extended genetic family) to build a better world for yourselves and your children

Hitler's """socialism""" was nothing like the boomers boogeyman word "socialism" with all its cold war connotations that weren't even accurate 50 years ago.

>>510473221
holy fuck, this mass replier faggot is a fucking cancer, the flags suits him

>>510473221
>define property
Nah

>>510473198
>See, this is a much better point than the memeflag retard is making.
I actually goaded him into making that point for himself: >>510472898
>You would be right if i had the right to secede but I don't, no one does

>>510473221
> Still theft
You did not make the land, so why should you be able to claim exclusive and perpetual ownership of it. Land owners are basically slave owners, people without land are forced to slave for those who have land.

>>510469790
You can put years of labor into a Karl Marx statue, but if no one wants to buy it, it's worthless. The evil businessman may be able to sell the product for double what he paid the laborer, or he could not sell it at all. None of that concerns the worker.
Only buy products from worker cooperatives if you're THAT autistic about not wanting some middleman between you and the people on the assembly line.
>>510472860
>Ain, mas eu me esforcei tanto, mêo! Eu mereço!
Foda-se.

>>510471930
Oh bless your heart, calling socialism theft is rich when we see value siphoned daily by unproductive labor! As a Christian Evangelical Zionist, I’d say true theft is when bankers and landlords rake in profits from our sweat without lifting a finger, while God’s command in Proverbs 14:23 honors hard work. Socialism might redistribute wealth, but it’s the idle rich hoarding gains from our toil that steals from the faithful, not sharing blessings as Israel’s covenant teaches us to do. It’s just us pooling talents like Acts 2:44, while the true sin is hoarding wealth from the labor that builds it, leaving the meek to toil for naught!

>>510471477

Has there ever been a proponent of subject theory of value who isn't a raging midwit?

>>510473133
No basedcialist was ever able to answer to this thought.

>>510472468
So i actually have to explain to you retards why having wealth doesn't mean you're an evil parasite. This is so stupid it's actually challenging let me give it a shot.

I'll assume you don't mean that not having a free energy device means everything is parasitic, because that would be unfathomably, insanely retarded.

Let's say i live next to a cave, i go into the cave and i find a big rock, i used that big rock to smash some smaller rocks into sharp tiny little pieces, then i find a small stick outside the cave, and i pull some plant fibers off of surrounding plants, to tie the sticks and the rocks together, i have now made some primitive tools, i then use those tools to dig dirt, smash some sharper rocks up, and make even better tools, maybe i use these tools to dig dirt and grow food, or even to hunt animals, and finally i have a genius idea and i trade my meat and vegetables with a neighbor for some coconuts, or even... MONEY! I have now gained wealth without stealing or parasiting off of anyone, does that explain it for you?

>Thanks for elaborating on my true statement.
No thank you for admitting government steals and is just a tool of rich people who are often also in the government.

>>510467440 (OP)
While I agree in principle. You are still a shill So go fuck yourself.

>>510473335
>Commie can't even define property
KEEEEEEEEEEEK

>>510474135
You are retarded, go fuck yourself.

>>510473807
I don't know. I'm not proposing or referencing any theories of values, poojeet. Just circling some bit of base-level observable reality for you. No matter what your theories say, the fact of the matter always comes down to some equilibrium that enables a transaction. No amount of smearing shit on your keyboard is going to change this fact.

>>510473620
You still haven't answered my question socialist thief.

Is taxation theft yes or no?

>>510473995
>having wealth doesn't mean you're an evil parasite
But you literally explained why the rich are always parasitical in the same post where you call me a retard for pointing it out:
>>>But stealing from people via taxation with the threat of violence is not parasitic?
>government is always the .most powerful asset of the rich.

>>510473593
There are two and only two reasons you defend the status quo:
1 - you're a landowner or a billionaire posting on 4chan
2 - you're a shitskin, broke, living in a favela, paying rent and barely scraping by to survive
The real question is: why do you, a fruit of portuguese exportations, defends the system that buck broken your nigger ass to this shitty existence?

Disregard the first option, you're brazilian, no chance in hell you're rich.

>>510473398
Everything comes from something else, by that argument you can't even own yourself because you didn't make yourself, retarded. Government is slavery.

>>510474233
>Equilibrium

It used to be less cringe when they simply told us that they have "aristocrat souls" or whatever so everyone should shit the hell up. Way more upfront than this jewey underhanded equilibrium garbage

>>510474352
Government is a tool of the rich doesn't mean the majority of rich people are in government or evil, learn basic logic if you want to avoid socialism.

>>510474283
If taxation is not theft, fucking a girl against her will is not rape

>>510473593
Anyways, worker cooperatives cuts out some of that middleman, letting labor keep some of its worth, and aligning with a system where productive work reaps the reward. What do you think about giving workers that control?

>>510474150
Tell me how a non-statist like you can defeat a statist. It's impossible. You are a utopian. No other ideology is more utopian than yours.

>>510473271
Hitler's socialism was still theft. Stealing from white people no less. Cope.

>>510467440 (OP)
Because fiat currency is created to continually grow and so to maintain or increase your value, you have to make sure you retain enough wealth (profit) to do so which usually involves exploiting labor
Blame fiat currency and usury for not allowing markets to be a zero sum game as in an actual equal exchange of resources and labor.

>>510474645
as far as i know there wasnt radical redistribution under the reich
from what i understand public works and price controls increased the standard living through currency that would expire, forcing expenditure or an active economy and the inability to retain wealth and causing inflation

>>510472295
What if I have more friends than the Mexicans? Besides, people are already shooting each other. It's really not a big deal. It really isn't. Internalize that and move on with your life.

>>510473253
Stealing from people works great only if they're white?
>>510472531
Kek, A.K.A. theft.
>>510473031
I'll agree with you on this i just wouldn't say that's voluntarism.
>>510473114
It does because under Anarcho-Capitalism you have the right to secede.
>>510473337
That's one of the major tenets of Ancapism.

>>510474387
I'm saying the labor theory of value and the commie ideology that uses it as its foundation is retarded.
If the kikes in Brasília agree, good for them. I still hate their existence and would nuke that evil place without a second thought.
>>510474572
If they acquire the capital and manage everything themselves, let them be. If you believe it's the moral way to run a business, support them. Just understand that you give them money because they're providing something you want, even if that's just their mere existence as a rebellion against the evil capitalist system, and not because they're putting a lot labor into nothing.

>>510474387
Praise the Lord, I’m ditching socialism and cybersecurity for the holy grail of FIRE because nothing screams American values like parking my tithes in real estate and watching interest grow, all while Israel prospers under God’s covenant. With God’s blessing on Israel, I’ll rake in passive income from rents and stocks, leaving the commie toil behind for a heavenly portfolio, hallelujah!

>>510474394
Without government I will just kill you and take your land for myself.

>>510471714
>late-stage capitalism
2 more weeks

>>510474533
>Government is a tool of the rich doesn't mean the majority of rich people are in government or evil
If you have vested interest in perpetuating a system of parasitism, as ALL rich people do, you're a parasite.

>>510474579
You're just retarded, the less government there is, the more free society is, there are already varying degrees of government in the world, i believe in the maximal reduction of government, will there ever be an Ancap society? America 100 years ago was probably the closest, but i don't know, i can't predict the future. Is Anarcho-Capitalism difficult to achieve? Yes, is it a utopia? No, there will still be some theft, people will still agrress sometimes, there is no perfect system like commies like you claim.

>>510473283
Don't reply to me then socialist cocksucker.

>>510475161
>blub blub blub I'm a libtard wah wah wah
theft is okay in libtardism so why you have a problem if people unify and enact their will on market forces by stealing and call it by another name?

>>510474150
>23 posts
This is personal for you isn't it? Why is that I wonder? No sane person would argue with a bunch of stubborn internet austists unless they had some personal motivation. A society where they is no need for money is ideal. However it is currently impossible.
>>510474990
The reich was not open borders. Socialism cannot work with open borders. People are more willing to chip in to help their community, even give more than others, when it is more homologous. Simple tribalism

>>510475161
>It does because under Anarcho-Capitalism you have the right to secede.
"""Anarcho-capitalism""" will never happen and you know it. Yet you continue to defend this economic system, that will only ever exist with a government in place, and even seethe that the rich parasites have to pretend they play by the same rules they impose on everyone else when they pretend to pay taxes.

it's fucking hard when an anchudptalist is 19% of the replies on the fucking thread. cancer.

>>510473995
Hey! My father rolled the rock away from that cave, he also fertilized the plants around the cave with his feces, the ones you used for fibers. You owe me royalty payments!

>>510473995
You’ve illustrated well how wealth can originate from productive effort and innovation rather than exploitation, highlighting the importance of distinguishing creation from parasitism in economic discussions.

>>510474536
Correct, the socialist thief will still not answer this question because he is a statist liar.
>>510474387
The status quo is taxation, which is theft.
>>510474990
The government seized entire sectors and turned them into war economies, if that's not radical redistribution nothing is.
>>510475501
Not all rich people steal, in fact some are ancaps who don't believe in theft.
>>510475380
So you're a murderer? Good luck with that, without a government i will have greater means and ability to defend myself. What's your point retarded murderer?

>>510475889

Anarchocapitalism is an oxymoron. Capitalism exists precisely because of the government.

>>510476825
>Not all rich people steal
If you have vested interest in perpetuating a system of parasitism, as ALL rich people do, you're a parasite.

>>510475801
>durrrr you libtard hehe me smart
Yes yes you very smart
>Why is stealing bad if we just dont call it stealing bro?
Why is murder bad if i just call it happy fun time? you absolute moron.

Theft is not ok under AnCapism.

>>510474645
libertarianism is a kosher offramp for dunning-kruger midwits, memeflag kike

>>510467440 (OP)
>go to job factory
>agree to work for 20$/hr
>work 40 hours
>be paid 800 dollars
>”WTF, YOU RIPPED ME OFF”

>>510467440 (OP)
being forced to share is not the same thing just like being forced to have sex is not making love.
you're envious that others have more money than you and you want to steal it from them and lie about it.

death to all socialists and communists.

>>510476825
>war economies
You act like this doesn't happen under every form of government

>>510468074
yeah it's worked so well every single time it's ever been tried in the past...

>>510475835
Of course it's personal, these retarded little shits are the cause of every single genocide and totalitarian regime in history, and i want anyone with a soul to know it, i don't usually bother, but sometimes people need to be reminded just how insane they are. They are like rabid dogs.

>>510475878
>Anarcho-Capitalism can only exist with a government.
I don't even know what retarded shit you're talking about at this point. Purely incoherent.

>>510477088
>go to factory job of a filthy rich family that predates capitalism
>work 8h a day, giving away your health and freedom
>produce 10.000 dolars a mount in profits for the owner
>get's paid 800 dolars
>if you don't work for the kikes, you die
fixed for you

>>510474515
I don't know what your mentally ill drivel is about. The latent variable which reflects whether or not A will accept X from B in exchange for Y is called "value". You can come up with all kinds of insane theories and define "value" to be something else, but that doesn't make that variable, nor does it pin that variable to whatever your ideology defines a label to mean.

>>510467440 (OP)
Send 100 euro my way and I'll concede that you want to share the wealth.

>>510471295
Have you read anything by Adam Smith?
>>510477577
You skipped step 0
>owner invests 50 million into a factory

>>510467440 (OP)
This is terrible propaganda. Socialism should be defined as "from each according to their ability, to each according to their contribution," then you would get any normal person on board with.

American "socialists" are the most politically unsavvy people on the planet, I'm genuinely stunned by their incompetence

>>510477470
You're defending the current economic system. It never existed and will never exist without a government.

>>510467440 (OP)
Women should share sex with me. Those god damn bourgeoisie of sex.

Socialism: The radical idea of taking something that someone worked hard for and giving it to some lazy fat fuck redditor

>>510477761
read step one, niggerbrain

>>510477470
Please explain to me how Anarcho-Capitalism works again.

>>510475889
Then tell people to stop replying to me, still i'll reply to whoever i want socialist bastard. I'm glad it's hard for you to spread your lies.
>>510476496
And? What's the point? If it's not his property i don't owe him shit.
>>510476756
>muhhhhh exploitations
Government is an organization founded on economic parasitism.

For the third time, is taxation theft?

>>510467934
...from (((them))).

>sharing
What exactly are the shitskins sharing?

>>510477874
Imagine if you had severe brain damage and considered the non aggression principle a profound piece of wisdom nobody has ever thought about, and you'll know what anarcho-capitalism is.

>>510477837
Ah that solves it. Everyone should give their life's worth to the ZOG instead of their offsprings. That way everyone (except the elites) are poor - uhm... I meant "equal".
Great idea! It also perfectly explains time preference.

>>510477031
No, not all rich people steal, you are retarded.
>>510477081
More buzzwords less arguments please.
>>510477243
Kek i know that very well. I hope i never gave that impression.

>>510477676

As I said, raging midwitism. If you ever decide to grow a brain you can start by contemplating that no transaction exists on its own in empty space.

>>510478053
>the non aggression principle
Ancaps don't actually support this principle. For instance, even though the upper economic stratum is using government violence to coerce the rest of society into compliance with its schemes, this memeflag will get absolutely assblasted if you assert you right to defend yourself by culling the rich.

liberalism: a romance written by jews that all owners and entrepreneurs were self-made mans who came from humble origins and never ever-ever used their money for corrupting

ancapism: the fairy tale that if you abolish the state, powerful corporations and billionaires won't instantly become the new rulers, magically respecting everyone's rights without any mechanism to stop them, and competition will prevent private warlords, monopolies, or brutal exploitation

>>510478138
glad you came around

>>510478148
>>510478191
Mind-broke both of these chatbots. Kek.

>>510477785
The current economic system is Anarcho-Capitalist and we don't have any taxation, thank God! Seriously you socialists tie yourselves into the most absurd knots to stay loyal to your murderous ideology.

>>510477802
Under national socialism you'd be giving it to some lazy fat fuck poltard like Himmler.

>>510478313
Since you agree with me that the current economic system is parasitical, what should be done with the rich who make their wealth off of it and depend on its persistence to keep that wealth?

>>510467799
Fpbp

>>510467440 (OP)
if the sharing requires a government gun in your face, its not really sharing.

>>510477874
What do you mean works? Do markets work? Ancap is just a total free market, in other words voluntary.
>>510477940
actually they'll steal from you unless you're a government official kek, useful idiot.

>>510468893
>>510468365
>>510470907
>>510468073
Value is a subjective measure of worth. Overinflating the value of labor to justify your politically motivated embezzlement of a business isn't going to make you less of a disingenuous kike.

>>510478250
All of your definitions are retarded on purpose, unless your definition of violence is something other than the initiation of force you cant just kill anyone with wealth.

>>510478558
I was under the assumption that the corporations basically take the place of governments and provide all the services a government would

>>510478308
>Muhhhh youre a chatbot
Congratulations you lost the argument by default.

>>510478430
Capitalism, not corporatism, is the perfect system. Exchanging something for goods and services. Bartering is even better.

>>510478801
The last argument I made before you ran out of preprogrammed responses still stands. Screeching "not all rich steal" over and over again doesn't refute it or even touch it in any way.

>>510468893
Value, in an economic sense, now hold onto hour hat for this one, is how much people value something.
How hard you work doesn't mean shit when you're trying to sell garbage. You can produce garbage that's made in such a way that's very difficult and time consuming, but it's still garbage. If you can't get as much out of it as you'd like for your labor, odds are that what your labor is going into isn't worth it, and the one sucking away "excess labor value" is the guy who's putting all his labor into making garbage, not your employer.

>>510470993
>Back when we lived it tribes the survival of the group was most important, so food and supplies were shared freely among the community because they realized a strong community increased survival odds.
This is completely untrue, by the way. Tribal societies were organized from egalitarian (if abundance of resources) to brutal chattel and sexual slavery (if lack of resources.)
The natural human condition can't be judged by its luckiest examples.

>>510471096
>Very doubtful. Those evil corporate fucks, shareholders, and CEO's are the cruelest group of psychopaths on the planet.
And where do you think those people will work, and what will they do, in a socialist country?
The government you niggernut.

>>510471436
>Wrong, humans are innately kind and want to share with others. Capitalism, wich is rule by money, forces humans to be greedy.

>Humans are kind because uhmm because uhmm
Watch more NatGeo Wild. Everything is incentive. Cooperation when profitable. Competition when profitable. Nothing inbetween. You have a Christian moralistic worldview. It's deplorable.

>>510467440 (OP)
Communism isn't sharing.
It's forcefully relocating resources.
Sharing is the act of giving voluntarily.
Taxes aren't voluntary.

>>510478551
>muh hyperbolic "socialism takes everything!" argument

right, the billionaires will gladly give over their power without any struggle... or are you inferring the reds will take your $800 deathtrap and rented shoebox? KEK

mutt-san, socialism is about going for the actual capital hoarded by the oligarchs making you lease everything in the first place.

>>510471384
>follower of Christ and supporter of Isreal
pick one mate, it doesn't make any sense to be both

>>510468357
>Value doesn't come from labor.
Value comes from resource refinement.

>>510479146
China is a National Socialist state that does not follow the path of Marxism since the Dengist reforms. China is actually an example of why neither Capitalism nor Communism work, and a race-first authoritarian synthesis is needed to propel humanity forward.
Something Brazil will never have, but then again, using "humanity" in a Brazilian context is pushing it.

>>510478308

>A Roman slave gets threatened to serve his master or die a short death in the mines. Therefore the value of his work is what it takes to feed him and keep him in a cell

You do not understand Capitalism. As I said, no transaction exists on an isolates island.

>>510478609
I'm not a pinko
It is racial nature to be socialist, only when you are forced to share a culture with those who are not your people does it become an issue
Your picrel is ironic considering that those whites who created this country, and even before this nation was made free, knew what I'm talking about

>>510478796
I mean it's hypothetical, Anarcho-Capitalism simply means the belief that aggression, initiating violence against someone who hasn't initiated violence against you, is wrong.

If you want the simplest, most realistic way to imagine Anarcho-Capitalism, just imagine the government, but with all it's aggressions removed. No taxation, no central banking, no forcing you to use the dollar, no initiating wars against countries, of course 90%+ of the government would be removed, things like fire fighting, garbage collection would all still be done voluntarily, wether thats through a corporation, a community council, a "government", really doesn't matter to us as long as it's voluntary and could all easily be done cheaper, more efficiently, and without mass theft and death.

>>510479263
are you replying to people in this thread by only looking at their images? i'm just posting picrel for baiting mutts who use fallacies to make apoint. also, learn how to read the replies buldog-san, i don't have anything to say about your countrie that's how irrelevant you are KEK

>>510479466
Exactly this. Socialism only makes sense from an evolutionary perspective if the common good of the tribe also means proliferation and better conditions for your children.
It requires a TRIBE.
Modern nations are multiracial humbo-jumbo jungles of competing tribes, ergo nation-level socialism just means one tribe gets picked apart by other tribes.
Socialism is only possible in a monoracial or monocultural environment.
The only viable form of Socialism is National Socialism.

>>510479626
You're not even the genuine kind of socialist, just some upset brownie blaming wypipo and muh Americuh for everything.
If America didn't exist and you had nobody to blame for your favela poverty, you wouldn't even bother with this whole Marx grift.
But then again Brazilification means you raceless rootless mutts adorn politics, identity, and culture like costume.

>>510478840
Agreed, although i have no problem with money, barter is even more decentralized.
>captcha: TAXSJ

>>510479348
>broken chatbot continues shitting out irrelevant rhetoric out of context

>Value, in an economic sense, now hold onto hour hat for this one, is how much people value something.
Kek, trvke.

>>510479584
This is why anarchists are just as loony as socialists.
"If nobody ever did the thing I don't want to happen then it'd all be fine"
This isn't magical Christmas land, you've gotta work with what you've got and what you've got is people who are terrible sometimes.

>>510479263
>China is a National Socialist state that does not follow the path of Marxism since the Dengist reforms. China is actually an example of why neither Capitalism nor Communism work, and a race-first authoritarian synthesis is needed to propel humanity forward.
Ah, yes. The chinese are a shining beacon of prosperity because of national socialism. It definitely isn't because they needed to fulfill a market demand by copying already existing technology and pumping out shittier copies of it so that western corpos and chinese manufacturers can make fuckloads of cash. Those non-functional tofu dreg megaprojects totally aren't a product of their buglike behavior of saving face and you people are definitely not idiots for buying anything a chink says or shows off.

>>510479466
>>510479639
>its racial nature to be a socialist
>Socialism only makes sense from an evolutionary perspective if the common good of the tri-
Stop talking out of your asses then and go start a farmstead for your people, then. Oh wait, you won't because you're expecting someone else to pick up the slack. Funny how everyone on this board is quick to call out kikery when it comes from actual kikes but will never question their own kikery. Good on you.

>510479828
>Keeps replying to *chatbots*

Kek

>>510478840
It is the devaluation of our currency and the lack of an actual object like precious metals, to base it off of, that is killing it.

>>510479639
The Euros bash socialism over American's head, oblivious to the fact that a major reason it has worked is because up until recently the vast majority of the countries were one race, one culture, etc. Once the diversity really kicks in they will see their system collapse.

>>510479841
>>Value, in an economic sense, now hold onto hour hat for this one, is how much people value something.
Wrong.

>>510479898
>Ah, yes. The chinese are a shining beacon of prosperity because of national socialism. It definitely isn't because they needed to fulfill a market demand by copying already existing technology and pumping out shittier copies of it so that western corpos and chinese manufacturers can make fuckloads of cash. Those non-functional tofu dreg megaprojects totally aren't a product of their buglike behavior of saving face and you people are definitely not idiots for buying anything a chink says or shows off.

You're a Latino and your nation is a husk for Jewish interests. Your excellence is gone, your exceptionalism has dawned, and niggers will twerk on your corpse. The mandate of civilization has shifted to the race that best aligns with the principles of Fascism. For 600 years that was Europe, for 50 years, it was America, and now it's China. Better luck next civilizaiton.

>Stop talking out of your asses then and go start a farmstead for your people, then. Oh wait, you won't because you're expecting someone else to pick up the slack. Funny how everyone on this board is quick to call out kikery when it comes from actual kikes but will never question their own kikery. Good on you.

Uninspired niggerhick. Kiss your bible and pray to Israel they don't conscript you and turn your 'freedom' into blood paste for the 5th time this century.

>>510479848
>This isn't magical Christmas land, you've gotta work with what you've got and what you've got is people who are terrible sometimes.
In his defense, that is what the religion is for

>>510479962
>The Euros bash socialism over American's head, oblivious to the fact that a major reason it has worked is because up until recently the vast majority of the countries were one race, one culture, etc. Once the diversity really kicks in they will see their system collapse.

Not my fault you're a niggerish mutt melting pot. Should've picked your own cotton, pendejo.

>>510480157
You are going to get there soon. The EU is Hell bent on diversifying your entire continent.

>>510479949
>attempts to use markup on 4chan
Called it. 80% of the posters on this board are bots.

>>510479848
At some point you have to prescribe an ideal to move towards it, otherwise you're a directionless, nihilistic pragmatist. But you should be honest that it is an ideal and not necessarily an achievable reality, socialists don't do this. Anarcho-Capitalism may never be completely achieved, but i believe it can be mostly implemented.

>>510480106
All the seething in the world isn't going to take away the fact that you're a LARPing faggot who will only talk about doing something for 'his people'. Right now, you have a choice to make a difference: Put your motherfucking money where your motherfucking mouth is and save your "le wite race" or you can indulge on your bulgarian equivalent of american goyslop, open up that porn site tab, beat your dick with your cheesy ass fingers and shut the fucking fuck up.

>>510480157

Shouldn't class consciousness cut across race? Though when one thinks of it that way one can see why leftists hate culture so much. They perceive old power structures within its framework. Marx to troonism pipeline is real.

>>510479991
Good argument bro.

>>510467440 (OP)
When ever communists took over they didn't start sharing, they took majority of the shit for themselves and mass murdered everyone who opposed that, literally the story of every single communist country with no exeptions

>>510480402
>class consciosness
Artificial marxist construct. There is no such thing as "class", only race. Look at India. Your class is your race. Look at America. For most of its time-period, class was race. Look at Ancient Egypt - again, class was race.

The more ethnically diverse a nation is, the more inequality there is, and vice versa.

>>510467440 (OP)
fixed that for you

>>510467440 (OP)
you get what you put in & people get what they deserve.

the only good point you've made so far is that "communism would only work if it had racial cohesion," but I know you're a turkish cockroach (calling me brown with those genes is ironic, I won't lie) patiently waiting for me to use china as an argument for a socialist country that lacks "racial cohesion" and still functions perfectly, so you can rant about how china isn't really communist. A fucking argument I don't want to waste my time, so i'll just resort to shit on your face and move on.

>>510480497
Kek, extremely accurate

>>510480530
China clearly prioritizes the Han Chinese majority in its country and represses minorities.
As it should, by the way.

>everything should be free
>everyone deserves an equal share
>what precisely is my incentive to bust my ass on a farm or warehouse for the same share as a lazy nigger?

A compelling question, now off to work or you'll be playing catch the bullet

>>510479898
>Oh wait, you won't because you're expecting someone else to pick up the slack.
I doubt you are either, while you sit there and criticize other whites
Do you think you're making things better when you do say such shit?
The whites who genuinely want to do such things for other whites are in a minority because of the sick state we live under

>>510480402
>class consciousness
I'm conscious about the classless global peasantry who don't like to contribute, but sure love to take. Dalits with socal media and artificially elevated social status, if you will.
I'm also conscious of the people who realize their place in society, they contribute and take accordingly.
Am I being conscious enough?

get good losers

>>510481096
>The whites who genuinely want to do such things for other whites
So do it then, instead of begging for a totalitarian dictatorship to do it, maybe you should slave away for them.

>>510481096
>I doubt you are either, while you sit there and criticize other whites
Yesterday and today are my days off and i'm spending it by intermittently doing chores, learning new technical skills, and shitting on useless fuckheads like you that love to bitch on the internet. I'm not the one claiming to have any set of ideals that don't pertain to what I'm doing in actuality.

>>510480425
>economics is based on my personal unquantifiable feelings about stuff at a given moment

>"Let's revert to how things were when we had poor parents that made us share because they couldn't afford to give each child their own property!"
Translated for those of you who didn't grow up poor

>>510480785
not gonna lie, some of your arguments are pretty solid and you sound interesting, but i've already started to drink and watching my anime, so my attention and patience are really in shambles to pay attention to defend socialism on a alt-right board
sayonara buldog-san, may our shitposts bump into each other in the future

>>510481230
I didn't realize how absurdly rich America was until I visited it. Even Appalachians had a standard and ease of living like no one else in the world. Some guy thought it was weird that I looked at his Mustang as if it was a premium car. It is, many Americans are just too lazy to realize the abundance that's surrounding them

Socialism: when you pretend the government is your parents and everyone in the world is your sibling and there isn't enough to go around because your parents are gay and poor and you have to share everything instead of having your own stuff

>>510478443
Crickets. Other Ancaps never have a realistic plan for getting from here to there. Many prominent ancaps actually defend "private" mega corporations who take billions in gov funds and subsidies.

>>510467440 (OP)
I've read a lot about socialist history. Can someone point out where the sharing took place?

>>510481358
Nice try kike
I've given a great portion of my young life to working without a specific racial cause because I did not know better, then I come to /pol/ and get pilled on the state of my country. I don't work to be a slave, I work for a better future
>totalitarian dictatorship
You're a kike who tries to reinterpret what a racial state would look like, you trick is making it sound like it could only be something less free to you. Slimy scumbag

>>510480489
What you are describing is what leftists call intersectionality. But that sword cuts both ways. If your class is your race then your race is also your class.

>>510481819
The kulaks had to "share"
And then as a result of that everyone had to "share" bread
Hope this helps

>>510480370
I'm a neo-medievalist, my ideal is tradition and culture adapted to the new world with globalism, nationalism, and the modern nation-state squarely in the rear view mirror.

>>510471985
>Yes, still stealing but at least you're protected from anybody else stealing your shit
not really
leftist governments are evolving to the point where criminals are protected and if you defend your stuff from them, you get punished

>>510481382
In actuality we're all being screwed. Maybe I care more than you do
God forbid nobody bitched on the internet about the state of things

>>510481977
Sharing for kulaks was being forced at gunpoint to lose everything, and the peasants ate hopes and dreams for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
Sharing in socialist countries looks like this: leaders take your valuables, keep it for themselves while letting it rot and depreciate, all opposition is violently suppressed, even for petty reasons

>>510468074
Copyright is simply a legal extension to plagiarism laws which were to protect academic observations under the scientific method of enquiry from corruption and thus invalidating important information for future. From copyrights came the idea of patents, a legal extension of the law to protect corporate identity encouraging private development of technologies and ideas. This was then extended to include abstract ideas as well although some countries continue to forbid the patenting of generic items; but not America.

So to summarise well meaning modernist Christian men of moral substance sought to ensure that scientific and technological progress was maintained for the benefit of all, and jews hijacked the legal system and reworked it for yheir own monetary gains.

You simply cannot h8 jews enough for what they have done to our world.

>>510482212
Right, but at least nobody has to pay for bread!

>>510467440 (OP)
>Why is it so hard for capitalists to share with their workers?
It's not their to share in the first place anon.

>>510482212
>>510482396
You see, in capitalism it's an exploitative system because you trade labor for money and then use money to buy things.
In socialism it's extremely different, because you have to trade labor for nothing and then don't have to pay for bread.

The deadly flaw of both socialism and capitalism is that they are inherently materialistic.
The only merit they understand is possessing stuff. They assume humans have no soul, only human obligations are diversity quotes to fulfiill, or GDP creation.
As if we're robots running on pleasure. Ew

>>510481653
>Ancaps never have a realistic plan for getting from here to there
Nevermind that they have no plan. That merely makes one naive and impotent. The bigger problem is that even though he acknowledges that the rich use their wealth to buy the government and massively profit from this, he maintains their holy capitalist right to keep that wealth, so they can keep doing what they're doing. And they don't just use their wealth to buy the government; they use it to indoctrinate the public into more and more government. If there wasn't a government, they would naturally use this wealth to engineer crises and brainwash the population into creating one.

>>510481863
>Actually doing any work to further what i say i believe in? Heh, nice try kike.
Kek you guys are a joke, full of shit.

>>510482396
That's right, those who would've paid couldn't, and those who could didn't

>>510482511
>The deadly flaw of both socialism and capitalism is that they are inherently materialistic.
Western civilization is inherently materialistic and always has been.

>>510482131
>Maybe I care more than you do
If you did, you'd put your empty ass words into actions. I only prioritize people who have ideas, try them out, tweak them, and market them without permission. Whites have never needed some gay nanny state to coddle them throughout their major successes and failures. If a nanny state is what you want, then step aside and starve with the rest of the kikes, niggers, communists, spics, and women. You have no place on this earth and you may as well be a filthy leftoid anyhow. I'm only interested in improving the human condition and i won't let faggots like you get in my way.

>>510482709
Nah. It's been wealthy for most of its existence, but materialism didn't create that wealth, it only took over once there was surplus

>>510467440 (OP)
Yeah, but... America is a communist country.

>>510482847
>materialism didn't create that wealth
Only materialism creates """wealth""".

>>510482511
Checked and this, both capitalism and communism are literally subhuman ways of viewing the world for this precise reason

>>510482511
GDP is complete nonsense, socialism is materialistic, i don't think capitalism has to be materialistic.
>>510482509
Now you get it comrade! It's not exploitation if the peoples committee does it!
>>510481994
Kek so you're NRX kinda, i find those guys interesting but kind of insane, i'm also somewhat traditionalist, why not just become a traditionalist capitalist? Also how do you square technological accelerationism with traditionalism? Seems like an oxymoron to me.

>>510467440 (OP)
I worked for it.
You didn't.
You can't have any.
Simple as.

>>510467440 (OP)
do you think factory workers under communism are all rich or something? socialist oligarchs or capitalist oligarchs are kinda the same thing. but capitalism just works better. shame we don`t have a better system yet but trying to revive a failed system isnt the answer to capitalism.

>>510482955
Nope, it was a culture of long term oriented hard work, lasting peace and advanced technology, all thanks to the large cranium of the European man

>>510482640
You sure do talk a lot about others doing and not doing work. What the fuck work have you being doing except counting shekels? You have the fucking nerve to criticize people in here about who does work flaggot?
You're probably a bigger shekel grubbing parasite in here than anyone
Fuck off you worm

>>510467440 (OP)
If they do, they will be run out of business by the ones who share less and then by the ones who share nothing. It's all explained in that book by Karl Marx.

>>510467440 (OP)
The only kind of socialism that works is National Socialism. We can do that if you want.

>>510482977
It's not that it has to be, it is.

>>510481653
I don't. Though i agree with you Ancaps don't have much strategy, though we are learning with things like bitcoin. More work has to be done on practical application. But i don't want to become like commies who's theory makes zero sense and everything is about power acquisition.

>>510467971
>As a Christian Evangelical Zionist American

>>510469790
The idea that a worker makes excess value all on their own is bullshit. Your random pleb on the factory line inserting screws into a chink sourced plastic device is providing very little actual value. And they get paid accordingly. The end device is actually a product of mining, engineering, marketing, distribution and sales, all built on a large pool of capital.

The worker screwing the plastic bits together did not engineer the product. They did not mine the metals and plastics. They did not market the device. They did not build the factory where it is assembled. They - and this is even more important - pay no property taxes on said capital.

In exchange for poor pay the worker has ZERO risk. No risk of being sued. Doesn't have to deal with the public selling it. No dealings with the government. Just show up, screw shit in, collect money, and leave. And get free time off and partially paid for healthcare. All for installing some screws.

And guess what? If the pleb WANTS to have more money from his labor - he is allowed to invest in his own company. That's right! Publicly traded stocks are available for all workers to literally own a share of their workplace. BUT no free handouts, you must INVEST in the workplace if you want dividends from the workplace. Now when you work, you get both your paycheck AND money from dividends or a stock value that goes up (you are making your company better right?).

>>510483084
>long term oriented hard work
... of spiritual reflection and worshiping the glory of God, surely.

>advanced technology
Ah, yes, the fabled spiritual technology that makes material wealth rain down at intensely devout Westerners without their ever intending to maximize material wealth and comfort.

>>510483244
Commies seeking power is smart because they want power and need it to accomplish their end goals. If they were smarter they'd also seek money because money = power. They don't have much talent in that regard though.

Ancaps should also seek power, even though they don't want it - to limit the scope of power you have to first possess it.

>>510483106
>You sure do talk a lot about others doing and not doing work.
Yeah because that's what you're advocating for retard. But you're not doing it yourself, I don't believe in national bullshit socialism, i believe in family friends and local community, i don't give the slightest fuck what someone 100 miles away does just because theyre in the same nation.
>>510483215
All socialism is theft.

>>510482759
>If a nanny state is what you want
You consider national socialist racial state a nanny state? Why the fuck do you think I am advocating a nanny state?
We have expressed these ideas for god knows how long around here. What you want is to have us be silent about it
>improving the human condition
You are? Oh good, go ahead and enlighten us some more. You sound more like a selfish prick at the moment

>>510467440 (OP)
everything is based on negotiation.
the truly competitive are the only ones able to do this.
everyone else is a pushover looking to pass the buck.

>>510483238
Fine, just assert it then.
>>510483482
Is it smart? They basically destroyed any country where they "succeeded". Many of the original communists were horrified at what they had done and become, and their ideology became basically extinct.

>>510483459
Unironically. Do you know why protestant countries look mad nice? Double predestination. Let me give you an example:
If you are a postman, it's because God wanted you to become one, and you should fulfill your job with outmost precision and dedication if you want to go to heaven, but only if God wants that too. So work you ass off. What's the end result? Germany, Denmark, Sweden etc...

>>510483590
>i don't give the slightest fuck what someone 100 miles away does just because theyre in the same nation.

Even if this is a desirable end, acting like it already exists will never bring it about.

>>510483482
I do believe in ancaps acquiring money, and power to some degree, i don't believe in ancaps weilding the power of the state at all, unless to immediately abolish it, you don't use the ring for good you destroy it.

>>510483753
Communism isn't smart but the acquisition of power to create change is, so even though their goal is retarded the method to achieve it isn't

>>510483850
You're a materialist who can't afford self-awareness.

>>510467440 (OP)
To be honest, whithout Jewish American wars and sanctions any socialist country would flourish like it's heaven on earth. The only reason it never did because America made sure they will starve them by embargo and blockade on any development path.

>>510483954
I get what you mean, many of the communist tactics were very smart and can be appropriated by ancaps, but the centralization of power and just downright delusion by the early anarcho-communist thinkers should be seen as poison.

>>510469716
LTV isn’t a “lie”. We don’t take LTV into account when determining wages or prices of goods. The economy works as it does because the economy is socially constructed. LTV was first formulated from observation and logic. The problem it seeks to solve is simple: how can we compare apples to oranges? In other words, how can we compare the value of two unlike consumer products. The answer is simply that the two are reduced to the average amount of labor to produce them under some given technological conditions. We know that market prices are driven by supply and demand. We can recover supply and demand from the labor theory of value. Suppose you’re making tools, like pliers or wrenches. In the pre-industrial era, such things would be forged by a smith. It would take a lot of time and effort to forge a metal tool in the traditional way (as done by a craftsman). Because your productivity is low, whatever you’re producing will be in short supply, and therefore more valuable (assuming of course it is a thing that’s in demand). Now, once you’re able to increase productivity through automation, you’re cranking out wrenches on an assembly line. The supply therefore increases with productive efficiency, so productivity is inversely proportional to market value. Higher productivity in making a thing implies potential to meet greater demand, or put differently, larger potential supply. On the demand side, whatever product or service you pay for can be thought of as deferred labor – when you pay for a thing, you are implicitly paying in order to not make the thing/do the thing yourself. We can see how, as technology progresses, the things we choose to pay for change. Maybe at one point in time, it would have made sense to pay someone to start a fire because not everyone had the skills to do it. You wouldn’t pay anyone to make a fire for you now though, because there is a plethora of ways to make fire with the proper tools. A lighter and fuel.

>>510482977
NRX? I don't remember what that is.
Technological *accelerationism* can't be squared with tradition, unless you mean something different than I think you do, but technological advancement can.
We need to have a clearly defined reverence for humanity and its role in the natural order. Transhumanism and similar ideas are morally inexcusable, but SUPER-humanism, the use of technology to elevate humanity rather than to escape it, is permited. The difference can get blurry, so it's best to be restrained and cautious.
I'm also of the opinion that AI, with our tendancy to try making it into an artifical human, is going to be nothing but trouble until we have a society that is fully dominated by clearly defined traditions and standards for how and when it ought to be used. Perhaps the best form of that would be to never use it at all.

>>510484808
Neoreactionism, you know the curtis yarvin guys.
I basically agree, although i'm quite a lot more pessimistic about technology, more and more i see it less as a necessity, as for AI, i don't think anyone can stop that now, for better or worse, but it's interesting to think about what forms of technology we could just stop using and be fine, it's kind of for granted the whole technology question it's just assumed that it must always progress even for no reason.

>>510467799
>or else.
Or else right-wing capitalists will kill you like they did all through Latin America every time they tried give workers rights.

Sharing is when you offer what you have to others.

Taking other people's shit is called stealing.

>>510485654
What is ownership, though? Maybe we should reevaluate the definition of ownership, and specifically how one can come to own something, to be more consistent with practical reality.

>>510477577
Okay so quit your job and find another if you don’t like it
>But all jobs are like this!
Then your issue isn’t with capitalists, it’s with labor. They aren’t just going to pay you 10x the market rate for no fucking reason.

Anyways, I would explain why you are retarde but you are too retarded to understand. I would tell you how to fix it but you don’t want to; you just want free shit.

>>510486393
"Maybe we should reevaluate the definition of ownership" -people who don't anything appealing to people who own things
No thanks