Now that the dust has settled, how the fuck did the USSR collapse without a shot fired.

>>510723013 (OP)
damn i love a big clit, what's her name?

>>510723013 (OP)
all those slavs were just drinking vodka all day and pissing themselves, it's impossible to do anything serious like that.

>>510723013 (OP)
that's a man

>>510723013 (OP)
The same way the US is about to collapse. A lack of faith in the kikes who set up the system and a moral rejection of their right to rule.

>>510723013 (OP)
That subversive crypto capitalist Gorbachev embraced degenerate western ideals such as "freedom" and "liberty" with glasnost. The PRC had the right idea to split from the CCCP.

>>510723013 (OP)
I need a gf like this

>>510723013 (OP)
We all watched Knight Rider and were like "well, they obviously won"

>>510723013 (OP)
Build for BBC.

>>510723013 (OP)
Because it was a jewish regime and jews only now how to destroy

>>510723269
These are women, chud

Same reason USSA is collapsing, not so bright one.

And if you dunno why that is, I'm not gonna tell you. :)~

I guess after killing 100 million Russians they realized they weren't going to convince people that communism works and just gave up.

>>510723013 (OP)
It's not strictly true that no shot was fired. Three people were killed in the 91 coup attempt.

>>510723013 (OP)
they were all secretly okay with it collapsing, silencing dissenters doesn't make them go away, they are just going to quietly root against you and shun you as soon as you show weakness

but also a bunch of those socialist republics did have their own coup attempts with shots fired, orchestrated by a minority of high level people that would benefit from its continued existence/gaining power over it.

>>510723013 (OP)
Western war games designed to wear down the USSR slowly over time combined with incompetency ranging from the highest to lowest level. The state failed the people who depended on it, so it's not surprising, contrary to common belief or the American way, when the people you elected to power begin to fail you, it may be time to focus on the levers of power instead of the new scapegoat pushed by regime media. Only issue is, the collapse was coopted by the KGB in the form of Putin, so it's less of a USSR collapse and more just an enshittification of what used to exist for the enrichment of the top level (Putin, Dugin and Putins favorite fluffer that week).

>>510723164
Shush, vermin.
We are talking about humans.

>>510723245
>"freedom" and "liberty" with glasnost
Glasnot provided neither.
This makes no sense.

>>510723489
It wasn't very Jewish post Stalin.

>>510723013 (OP)
>>510723162
Soviet union n did not collapse.

America was good invaded and conquered. You were taught incorrect history. USA is West Germany 2.0 complete with stasi, zersetzung, and illegal human experimentation

>>510728553

>>510723013 (OP)
Their elites forfeited.
They still have not recovered and I don't think they ever will.
Next century will be commanded by US or China , Russia will stay second tier state.

>>510723013 (OP)
everything was already stolen when jews left in early 80s so it was just 10 years of rotting untill sure collapse
and now jews are robbing usa blind before they collapse

>>510728553
>West Germany 2.0
Impossible, seeing as West Germany was 99% White.

>>510723013 (OP)
perestroika and glasnost showed the homo sovieticus how fucked up their system was and the people rightfully so rebelled

>>510728553
No, the human experimentation is legal because they wrote laws saying it was legal.

>>510730610
It was stolen in a sense that the USSR was selling anything and everything to obtain foreign currency.
They were under sanctions and nobody wanted rubles, so they had to obtain dollars at crazy rates.
But the dollars were in large part was quickly pocketed in the today's oligarchy and the country fell apart.

Also did you know that at one point some military commander lobbied for automated system for economic planing and production and resource management to boos production.
It was unanimous rejected , the bureaucracy would be out of work.

>>510723013 (OP)
Diverse empires need some external pressure to keep empire from fracturing. For USSR, the enmity against USA provided that. Glasnost and Perestroika made USSR too similar to and too friendly with USA and brought the empire down.

>>510723013 (OP)
They were propping up the Warsaw Pact countries who were indebted and struggling to compete economically with the West. The US opened China and exported manufacturing to Asia, which was much cheaper.

>>510731258
nope kike it was stolen on all levels inside of the country and THEN ussr needed to obtain foreign currency since they had no wealth on their own

>>510723013 (OP)
>without a shot
So the Afghanistan campaign never happened?

>ussr stayed on a war economy with gulag slavery
>the west switched back to civilian economy
>eventually the disparity between living standards became known to soviets
>all non russians rebelled until soviet union fell apart
>russians are happy to live like slaves and are doing so today

>>510723013 (OP)
Communism doesn't work. It can't produce wealth and raise living standards because a command economy can't rationally allocate goods and resources without a price system.

>>510730802
>how fucked up their system was
I disagree, this system was effective enough to defeat the mutts in the space race and create a super power.

>>510730610
>>510731258
>>510732525
> MUH CURRENCY
Nobody cares about paper.
USSR had oil, nukes, fertile lands and a big ass army.

>>510733261
>Communism doesn't work
That's evidently false.
> It can't produce wealth
It produces industries which all that matters.
> raise living standards
Also, evidently false.

>>510735029
didnt help them lol

>>510733179
>>ussr stayed on a war economy
Based.
Not sure how being efficient leads to collapse.
>> with gulag slavery
The US had a higher percentage of its population in prisons than the USSR.
>>the west switched back to civilian economy
>>eventually the disparity between living standards became known to soviets
So, they decided to widen it...?
>>all non russians rebelled until soviet union fell apart
>>russians are happy to live like slaves and are doing so today
I don't see how they were slaves, in most Western countries, people can't even buy a home.

>>510723013 (OP)
the US propped them up against europe throughout the 20th century, they rigged the oil price with saudi arabia to ruin them, communism is inefficient

>>510735194
My point exactly.
Why didn't it help them?
How could a superpower collapse without a shot fired.
Is jewish subversion this effective?

>>510735391
>communism is inefficient
All evidence suggests otherwise.

>>510735399
i already explained why you dumb memeflag kike >>510730610

>>510723269
I look like that when I crossdress

>>510735399
didnt Soviet tanks shoot at the parliament?
Regarding
>Why did it collapse
Same thing that will happen to the US eventually. If all the wealth is concentrated at the top and a few people get fatter while others starve, if you need to oppress your population every chance you get (DDR, Prague etc.) you will eventually collapse. Being a "superpower" or not doesn't help if you don't leverage your advantages.

>>510735472
You explained nothing.
USSR still had a massive army and highly capable industries.

>>510735709
>all the wealth is concentrated at the top and a few people get fatter while others starve,
But the USSR shared the wealth, they offered free Healthcare, education, housing, etc...
> if you need to oppress your population every chance you get (DDR, Prague etc.)
Define oppression.
If having an intelligence service meant you were oppression the population than most of the world is oppressed.

>>510723013 (OP)
Jews were done with it and moved to the US.

>>510723013 (OP)
People stopped believing in it. My fil said that by the time he was a young man everyone knew it was all bullshit

>>510723013 (OP)
People were tired of communism. When the communists decided to exert their will over the populace with the military it turned out the military wasn't going to start shooting Russian civilians for the communists.

>>510735457
show evidence memeflag

>>510735873
You're a fucking idiot and subhuman savage.

Cause Gorbachev was fucking retarded at actually governing, he was just great at making people like him, power politics and backstabbing his way to power.
He made series of catastrophic decisions which turned situation from troubling to cataclysmic.
He fucked up so bad people started believing the theory that USSR was doomed anyway, which is massive bullshit. USSR in 1985 had many issues but absolutely none of them were existential issues.

>>510736125
>No existential issues
>The political entity was destroyed
>No existential issues

>>510735962
Nope, that only occurred after 6 years of misrule, confusion and chaos. Gorbachev made people lose the faith in the system.
People didn’t actually give up on communism. Communist won presidential elections in Russia in 1996 (Yeltsin just stole with the aid of his cronies and American money).

>>510736049
Be quiet, Gomez.
>>510736254
>>No existential issues
>>The political entity was destroyed
>>No existential issues
Yes, that is what this thread is about.
How could a political entity with no existential crisis be destroyed.

>>510735873
>But the USSR shared the wealth, they offered free Healthcare, education, housing, etc...
Nah, there were still some wealthier than others, especially the political elite and oligarchy. Thats not sharing, thats just claiming you share
>Define oppression, most of the world is oppressed
I can just leave my country, nobody built a wall around it to keep me in. Also, I can criticize my government without being sent to the Gulag. Aside from the DPRK, I dont know any other country actively keeping its citizens locked in. Maybe Ukraine, but thats for a different reason

>>510736125
>>510736389
I feel as if what he did wasn't out of incompetence but out of an intention to destroy the USSR.
My question here is, why wasn't he taken out by the KGB.

>>510736254
Do you have trouble reading English? Gorbachev himself created these issues with moronic policies he implemented.
You can for example read Kotkin, he’s pretty anti-communist but he fully agrees with what I wrote.
Soviet system was very far from ideal, but the idea Gorbachev was this tragic hero who fought a valiant battle and lost against impossible odds is horrific rubbish. He personally made odds impossible. He was an arrogant and power-hungry idealist and populist.

>>510723013 (OP)
Cold War was fake and gay jewish theatre to control the goyim on both sides
In the USSR the jew Andropov designed the Iron Curtain and became de facto leader when he ran the KGB from the late 1960s
On the US side, Kissinger held control of the West via a huge network of 'transatlantic' institutions, again from the 1960s onwards
Together they engineered the controlled demolition of the USSR by bleeding it dry in Afghanistan (Andropov's war) and propping up Gorbachev (Andropov's protege) and his 'reforms'
Then Kissinger moved in to loot the corpse for his Rothschild masters, turning Russia into a colony for jewish oligarchs, while grooming Putin to be his globohomo plant post-yeltsin

>>510736511
>Nah, there were still some wealthier than others,
That will forever be the case, however the degree of inequality was much lower than that of post USSR Russia and the West.
> Also, I can criticize my government without being sent to the Gulag.
You can't criticize jews and you can't shit on the holocaust myth, you can shit on the American installed puppet goverment but you absolutely cannot speak truth to power.
So nothing you said make sense and the amount of inmates in the gulag was always lower than that of America both in absolute and relative numbers.

>>510723013 (OP)
>them puffy pussy lips
Goddamn I haven't gotten a boner that fast in months
Name?

>>510723013 (OP)
Internal mismanagement, likely caused by orthodox marxist economics

>>510723013 (OP)
cause it was a tyrannical empire with colonies who wanted to break free

>>510735720
and after jews robbed them blind they didnt even have money to pay salaries to soldiers so multiple regions broke away from russia while they had to bribe other ethnic republics to stay in exchange for autonomy

>>510736580
I doubt that, that’s a schizo theory in my opinion. He was just fucking stupid. Intelligent people can be stupid too.
>taken out by KGB
Simply cause USSR in 80s wasn’t really how you imagine it and Gorbachev was very adept at dismantling opposition in CP and maintaining power.

>>510723164
are you a russian jew?

>>510736729
I genuinely still cannot fundamentally wrap my head around a counrty going from a feared and respected superpower to a snowy, humiliated, terrorism infested, snowy Bangladesh almost overnight, without a war.
It fucks me up badly how quick things can change.

>>510723013 (OP)
Invading Afghanistan was a mistake, it cost them a lot. Then they fell for the mutt scam of space race, which caused them to spend too much resources on that. Last the corruption, too much corruption makes you collapse no matter your size.

>>510723013 (OP)
In a nutshell, the system was horribly designed. It could have never worked.
There is much truth in broad, sweeping denouncements like:
>too much government is a terrible idea
>too much corporative power is a terrible idea
>diversity is cancer
>jewish influence is the worst
>parlamentarianism is like aids

Any system keeping these five in check will assure a prosperous nation.

>>510736939
These aren't pussy lips. : )

>>510723162
big john

>>510723164
Hope you catch a Khaybar missile on your shelter to chock you alive, parasite

>>510736984
>tyrannical empire
It was neither an empire nor was it tyrannical, people voted to maintain the USSR.
Anyhow, America is an evil and tyrannical empire and yet it hasn't collapsed.

>>510737083
It wasn’t overnight. USSR had serious economic and social issues in 80’s, combine that with inept leadership and rigid peculiar political and social system and it’s an excellent set-up for catastrophic collapse if you commit a series of dumb political, economic and social decisions.

>>510736874
First things first, comparing USSR to America doesnt make sense because I agree that the US will collapse, too
>That will forever be the case, however the degree of inequality was much lower than that of post USSR Russia and the West.
You cant just toss up "The West" in one word like that. The degree of inequality in Germany right now for example is way lower than in the US. I also generally disagree that the inequality was lesser in the USSR.

>You can't criticize jews and you can't shit on the holocaust myth
true, but in both cases I will be tried in court, I can have an attorney present and my sentence, if at all, will be quite short. In soviet Russia it was off to the Gulag, no trial, no attorney, my family doesn't know where I am, and I have a high chance of not making it back out alive. I can also at any point in time leave my country if I disagree with these rules.

>>510737015
Can you imagine somehing like this happening in America.
> Biden comes out and states that the US is just not working, because *IDEOLOGICAL REASONS*
> Therefore we need to dismantle the federal system and give all states full autonomy.

>>510737104
Invading Afghanistan was a mistake but it wasn’t that relevant in the grand scheme of things.

>>510737104
>Invading Afghanistan was a mistake, it cost them a lot.
They held it easily though, as evident by the Afghan commie goverment managing to last for years without support from the USSR.
> mutt scam of space race
USSR started the space race and won it firmly.

>>510735029
>nobody care about paper
maybe nobody doing the stealing or in the goverment, but without that magic paper, people cant eat.

>>510737459
US system isn’t as ideological. But USA is collapsing too IMO, it’s just a different process.

>>510737488
it was the final nail because lost wars are bad for morale. The jewSA was very much aware of that which is why they burnt billions for Afghani goat herder rebels aka mujahideen.

>>510737337
Midwits are invariably drawn to these facile post-hoc explanations, that's why the jews in charge have such an easy time covering their tracks

>>510737228
you are just denying historical facts clamming black is white
russians voting didnt matter when other countries wanted independence - and thats why it fell apart

>>510737337
Yes, USSR had many problems but none of them were big enough to cause such a dramatic transformation.
The US has MANY, MANY, MANY problems.
I don't expect the US to turn into Bangladesh anytime soon.
Hell even much WEAKER states like Syria still managed to last very long with massive amount of external pressure only to fall due to military and subversive actions.
The USSR was FAR stronger than bathist Syria, why couldn't it survive?

>>510737710
USSR didn’t really lose tho. They just refused to make any serious effort for years and Gorbachev gave up. That conflict was problematic from the start as Politburo was divided on the issue. Commie government there endured till 1993.
If they were given enough support and if they promoted competent people there, Afghan government could’ve won.

>>510737400
>but in both cases I will be tried in court, I can have an attorney present and my sentence
And...?
You enjoy such meaningless charades, LOL?
Saddam had a trial too, with pre determined rulings, btw.

>>510737853
>USSR didn’t really lose tho. They just refused to make any serious effort for years and Gorbachev gave up
*eyeroll*
yeah, and the US totally liberated the middle east, jews aren't genociding Palestinians and the holocaust was real.

>>510737642
Nope, I can't eat worthless paper that jews printed.

>>510737838
I absolutely agree it could’ve survived, at a minimum.
Gorbachev and his government just fucked up, and due to propaganda people were painted a fantasy where he fought impossible odds and even imply a silver lining cause of the fact nuclear war didn’t happen or something.

>>510737760
You are too ideological and just pushing blatantly false, low IQ cold war era propaganda.
I am done with you now, Bai.

>>510737585
It was about resource spending. Yes they won the space race. I 100% agree. But at what cost ? The mutts baited them.
And yes they held Afghanistan, but at what cost too ? What they lost following their collapse is way greater than what they gained in Afghanistan and the space race.

>>510738072
youre being purposefully retarded for (you)'s, which is okay and the reason im here, but that one is really phoning it in.

>>510737946
>meaningless charades
The difference between a one year prison sentence (if at all) and Gulag until death, the detail you omitted, is not meaningless. If you cant make your point without misrepresenting mine, I am starting to doubt if you ever had one

>>510737974
People compare Afghanistan and Vietnam but they were rather different conflicts. Afghanistan was neither as impactful for Soviets nor was it as difficult as Vietnam.

>>510723162
jessica such

some of the "typical night out in manchester" videos that get posted on 4chan ive seen her walking in them

>>510723013 (OP)
it was a fake collapse

>Gorbachev, "the arrogant powerhungry psychopath" let republics peacefully secede.

Same cant be said about supposed voluntary united states. Oh the irony.

>>510723013 (OP)
CIA supported color revolutions and independence movements all across its periphery states. Meanwhile they were forced into technology races (space, and arms) they could not afford to keep up with long term. They lost the culture war (Metallica playing concerts in Moscow with millions of youths attending, no such cultural cache exported by the USSR to the west). Stagnant economy where the only way forward was to start behaving more like the west.

>>510738194
>100% agree. But at what cost ?
It allowed them to advance a lot of technologies which in turn could be used in other fields.
Soviet rocketry was the best for a good reason.
> And yes they held Afghanistan, but at what cost too ?
Was relatively cheap as they had a reliable ally in Afghanistan.
> What they lost following their collapse is way greater than what they gained in Afghanistan and the space race.
Again, it's not clear how either winning the space race or Afghanistan made them collapse.

>>510738364
Elaborate pls. Many of the ex-soviets moved to the west and took important positions. Today the EU is full on crypto-commies soviet style. For these reasons I can believe you, but I want to read your extended view.

>>510738779
>Again, it's not clear how either winning the space race or Afghanistan made them collapse
Too much resource spending. At a time where they shouldn’t spend that much.
Also share your views what do you think made them collapse ?

>>510738436
>CIA supported color revolutions and independence movements all across its periphery states.
Yeah, but there is no rule that states that the USSR should have just sat there and permitted states to break away, especially they could have easily just arrested or shot the protesters dead.
> Meanwhile they were forced into technology races (space, and arms) they could not afford to keep up with long term.
How do?
They were dominating the space race and in terms of tech, they were advancing quiet rapidly.
> They lost the culture war (Metallica playing concerts in Moscow with millions of youths attending, no such cultural cache exported by the USSR to the west).
Good point.
If being good at culture products somehow made you dominate your enemies, than niggers would be ruling over the US by now.

>>510739089
>Too much resource spending
USSR wasn't running out of the resources needed to maintain their gains in either the space race or Afghanistan.

>>510739230
So what made them collapse according to you?

>>510738325
I hate his fucking Manchester accent but...
No wonder bongs had to invent the posh accent, their natural accent is repulsive.

>>510738260
I didn't compare it with Vietnam.
The problem is that the SU had neither the economic output nor the propaganda to mask a defeat like jewmerica could. Afghanistan was a ten-year long drip of money when the economy was already in the toilet. Long wars are expensive as hell. People really stood in lines in almost every bloc country, oftentimes for absolute necessities but also bs items like buckets.
It boggles my mind that we really have to debate that. Was the war alone responsible? Hell no, but again, the system was shite (bad economy, laughable ideology, bellicose af, it was diverse on top; some cultural aspects were decent though) Slavs can't run shit and they were competing in several ways against a well-run system.

>>510739318
This flag had the best explaination I have seen ITT.
>>510738115

>>510739645
So corruption is the culprit.

>>510739645
*eyeroll*
what is it with newfags today?
Dude, the breadlines were no joke. While ironically bread was maybe the only commodity of which there was plenty, you stood in lines for almost everything. Even basic stuff was missing all the time. Fancy shit was almost nonexistant and fancy means everything but the most basic items like clothing or paper.
Economy was a disaster in the 80s. The few westerners coming in felt like royalty.

Almost everybody stole from somewhere because at some point you had to. Everyone felt shame and disgust because of so much constant lying. Everything was falling apart.

>>510735399
>My point exactly.
>Why didn't it help them?
Because you're wrong about nobody caring about paper.

>>510723013 (OP)
Retarded economics, colossal overspending on military and elite's unwillingness to maintain a system that limits their wealth.
The last part is why communism will NEVER work: its existence is aganist the interest of the top 10%.

>>510731258
>Also did you know that at one point some military commander lobbied for automated system for economic planing and production and resource management to boos production.
You mean, a computer?
A computer to solve the system of linear equations that calculated the economy
BTW nobody followed what the calculations said, everything was improvised, computer or no computer

>>510739318
>So what made them collapse according to you?
Nobody knows. They were at their best economically in the 1980s. That stagnation people talks about was far better than the famines of the early USSR

>>510739645
Huge reduction in military spending and economic reform might have saved it. It wasnt attempted however, because nobody wanted to save it, not even the peoole in charge of it.

USSR was at the richest it ever was when it broke up

>>510741389
Everyone here knows: it was Coca Cola, jeans, Hollywood and McDonalds. The cold war was in truth a cultural victory for the US.

>>510723013 (OP)
people in charge of the USSR realised or worked out how they could have more power and money if they did away with the USSR but kept all its assets and so dissolved the USSR but robbed Russia and the other minor countries by making themselves and their friends into governors and oligarchs.
there is a book about how it stayed pretty much the same but instead of communism which didn't work, the people in charge stayed in charge and became capitalists and instead of the state owning everything, they owned everything.
every oligarch in the former ussr countries is there because they were placed there by the people in power during the ussr-time, but today they are 2 or 3 generations down the tree.

Nobody knows why the USSR collapsed. Anything bad in 1990 was far worse before, the situation 1990 was the best it had ever been.
Its also the same in many shitholes you can think off, like India, where theres garbage and poo everywhere because 50 years ago they had mass famines and today they are fat on too much rice and lentils

>>510741834
You mostly are right except
>they are 2 or 3 generations down the tree
Its 0-1. Communism collapsed less than 40 years ago.

>>510741752
>it was Coca Cola, jeans, Hollywood and McDonalds.

>>510740862
>The last part is why communism will NEVER work
The Chinese interpretation of communism, by supporting your local industries by importing loads of cheap raw materials and offering them cheap to your companies so they can make competitive products is so far a winning strategy. They also succeeded in bringing 800 millions Chinese out of poverty which a feat in itself.
So the Soviet interpretation of communism is deeply flawed but the Chinese one by being a hybrid with capitalism and communistic by helping your industries and people is so far successful.
Capitalism too is about to fall because it started to predate on its people, and companies predates on their customers, it’s bond to collapse too.

>>510742187
>and offering them cheap to your companie
Offering them at international market prices, not cheap

>>510741834
>instead of the state owning everything, they owned everything
reminds me of Trump's new sovereign wealth fund

>>510741953
>Nobody knows why the USSR collapsed
Except everyone who lived there. This isnt a mysterious event from antiquity, retard.

>>510742187
>Chinese one by being a hybrid
A hybrid of X and Y isnt X. What China does is effrctive, but it isnt communism.

>>510723013 (OP)
american jewish meddling

>>510742397
>Except everyone who lived there.
Normal people dont know anything. What could some russian off the street know?
And yes, it is a mistery. Thats why you cant explain it without using thought-terminating cliches

>>510723013 (OP)
Russia does that every 70-80 years.

>>510726507
>rusniggers
>human

>>510723013 (OP)
There were shots fired in moscow tho, even tank shells. Read up on your history zoomie

>>510741389
>Nobody knows. They were at their best economically in the 1980s.
just how much of a retard are you?
most citizens in the bloc countries expected war to break out. Everybody wanted out out out. Simply wandering around in most towns was depressing, because it looked like shit, even in high IQ countrie, picrel. Polish girls would screw you for a new pantyhose. Russians girls would do it for less.

You little fags grew up with pics of nigger migrants carrying fancy tracksuits and iphones. This phenomenon did not exist pre 90s. Poor meant poor.
Soviet economy was almost nonexistant back than. Apart from the most essential stuff (which was still often hard to get) people got almost everything from the black market and by stealing.

>>510741752
>>510742397
>nobody knows why the SU collapsed
the retardation ITT is powerful

>>510742836
You are not explaining anything. What are you even saying, some town somewhere looked ugly?

>>510742836
>Soviet economy was almost nonexistant back than. A
It was not nothing. It was much bigger than it had ever been. Anything bad in 1990 USSR was worse before

>>510742352
No no. They offer them at a cheaper rate for their local companies. China negotiates with mines all over the world, buys upfront all the upcoming mining production, then ships it all to China, what they ask from their companies is their money back, with no profits (this is communism applied to capitalism) companies buys the raw materials at competitive prices, manufacture products at cheap prices, then sells the products globally at unbeaten prices. China also FORBIDS their companies of making ABSURD profits, they believe it is syphoning useful resources from the economy, rightfully. Capitalism encourages absurd levels of profits which cripples the economy, and makes the rich richer.
>international prices
If you were to buy the raw materials from them they would sell it to you at international prices not their large industries they get a massive discount to be able to compete. This is what pisses off the west.
>>510742547
It’s the evolution of communism which is not the same thing as the original idea, but helping their people and industries is still on the menu. Which is great to be honest I prefer their system to this kike’d system of over bloated profits for the rich while the working class struggles to make ends meet.

>>510723013 (OP)
Because the KGB plotted to takeover the entire country and every aspect of life. They did this by dissolving the agency and ascending it into a secret society that rules over Russia today.

The perestroika deception is real and they collapsed the Soviet Union on purpose in order to copy the western strategy of secret societies ruling the country because they thought it was more effective. Now, no one believes the KGB still exists even though it clearly does because everyone in a key position or is a billionaire managing KEY industries is a “former” KGB agent.

>>510723013 (OP)
Top or bottom?

>>510723013 (OP)
That's a woman.

>>510723013 (OP)
they were so corrupt they sold all the bullets

>>510743229
>No no. They offer them at a cheaper rate for their local companies. China negotiates with mines all over the world, buys upfront all the upcoming mining production, then ships it all to China, what they ask from their companies is their money back,
>We will get cheap minerals here

>>510723013 (OP)
>how the fuck did the USSR collapse

Read picrel.

/thread

>>510743229
>No no. They offer them at a cheaper rate for their local companies. China negotiates with mines all over the world, buys upfront all the upcoming mining production, then ships it all to China, what they ask from their companies is their money back,
>We will get cheap minerals here
>>510743229
>) companies buys the raw materials at competitive prices,
So not cheap, rather at normal prices like every single company

>>510723013 (OP)
>without a shot
Incorrect, Gorbachev was masturbating during the collapse.

>>510743583
>Russia is big
Not a reason not to create an independent judiciary & private property rights.

>>510742950
I told you exactly what happened. In the words of the Rusnigger retard pres:
>"we hyere hyave the opposite problem: we hyave moneys but not things to buy"
betraying a total non-understanding of economy. To make it so easy even a retard teen like you can understand it:

imagine everybody has ugly clothes, old shoes, everything is ugly and literally stinks (yes, cities stank because air pollution was deemed irrelevant) and you're standing in line because you've heard they sell something down the street. You have no idea what they're selling but you'd be stupid not to try your luck. You can't ask because the guy next to you would probably lie anyway. After four hours the sale is shut down and you all go home empty handed to your ugly, low trust high rise where there's no names on the panel, only numbers. For dinner there's bread with ersatz butter and ersatz coffee, like every day.

>>510743583
I have read many variations of this text. Its nonsense that explains nothing. The general idea is that "uh its complicated hence, collapse".
Why would stagnation cause an economic collapse?
Also there was no stagnation, the economy was growing and i have posted the statistics here. The economy was getting embarrassed by western europe, as their economy (that of western europe) was growing much faster.
So for each extra dollar the soviets earned, western europeans earned 10 more. Soviets were still improving but very slow compared to western europe. The ecinomic weight of the USSR was also shrinking as a percentage of global GDP as countries everywhere were growing faster than the USSR.

>>510723013 (OP)
Soviet elites decide what ussr can't be fixed, so they adopt capitalistic system. It was right decision as time show us.

>>510744184
>Why would stagnation cause an economic collapse?
It didn't. Learn reading comprehension. Read, nigger, READ.

>>510743987
>imagine everybody has ugly clothes, old shoes, everything is ugly and literally stinks (yes, cities stank because air pollution was deemed irrelevant) and you're standing in line because you've heard they sell something down the street. You have no idea what they're selling but you'd be stupid not to try your luck. You can't ask because the guy next to you would probably lie anyway. After four hours the sale is shut down and you all go home empty handed to your ugly, low trust high rise where there's no names on the panel, only numbers. For dinner there's bread with ersatz butter and ersatz coffee, like every day.
This would not be typical, it would happen sometimes but that was not a typical soviet day.
I know there were shortages but shortages dont mean no one has any food ever. There were worse shortages in the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s and 1950s and still some starvation in the 1960s until russian ran out of starving people. Things were ok in the 80s

>>510744362
>Learn reading comprehension.
You text only says that there was stagnation and that led to... collapse?
Because of the size of russia of whatever

>>510744436
I was born in 80-s and as i remember life in ussr was ugly shit.

>>510744247
It's literally the same system. Everything belongs to the state & if you cross it your wealth & your life are gone.

>>510723013 (OP)
They angered the Saudis with their Afghanistan War while being heavily reliant on oil export income. So the Saudis abolished the OPEC oil production caps, the global oil prices crashed to single digit levels and the Soviets lost their export income. So the old men in the Politbüro decided to put the fate of the Soviet Union in the hands of a radical reformer who promised miraculous prosperity through economic privatization and liberalization: Michael Gorbatchov. Five years later the Soviet Union was bankrupt and all its member republics declared independence.

>>510744555
>and as i remember life in ussr was ugly shit.
Chances are in the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s or 1950s you would have simply died. Perhaps you think it was bed because you didnt die

>>510723269
Average western women.

>>510744656
>They angered the Saudis with their Afghanistan War while being heavily reliant on oil export income.
Meme, USSR had nearly zero trade imbalances

>>510744554
Stagnation proof what soviet system can't work. After some time it become obvious for even top elites, so they decide to change vector, aka say farwell to soviet system.

>>510744555
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>>510744655
Nothing like that. Modern Russia have huge private sector.

>>510744743
>Stagnation proof what soviet system can't work. A
There was no stagnation and stagnation doesnt lead to collapse. A place can simply stay stagnant
Almost all the world was stagnant during almost all history, there was no such thing as economic growth, people lived like their ancestors in the same type of society

>>510723245
But sister, Marx teaches us that role of individual in history is irrelevant. So how could a single traitor overthrow the blessed dialectics?

>>510744889
You are wrong obviously.

>>510744848
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_Russia-related_deaths_since_2022

>>510744981
You need to stop reading such dumb propaganda. And business in Russia always was dirty when it big, heavy legacy of 90-s.

>>510744972
>You are wrong obviously.
Tell me how much income per capita grew in russia between years 700 and 1300?

>>510745114
Have no idea, but when i was kid we have radio and black and white tv, now i have smartphone, gaming pc, washing machine etc and as much of everything as i want from all corners of world, i call it progress.

>>510745098
Legacy of Russia being a low trust ''society'' (territory).

So you are telling me all Hitler had to do was give Stalin a truck of Fanta and that would have done the USSR?

>>510745296
Trust is bad thing, weakness, will be used by any scammer. Trust nobody.

>>510745287
>but when i was kid we have radio and black and white tv, now i have smartphone
And this is what collapsed the USSR? How?

>>510745384

>>510745451
How do you order a sushi meal without smartphone? The people were literally starving in the USSR, they could only watch government video streams of sushi meals in black and white. Dark times.

>>510745736
>How do you order a sushi meal without smartphone?
Send an errand boy

That's a penis! Not a big clit! There are no such big ones! Are you all virgins that you don't know that?

>>510741603
It seems that the only people who didn't want the USSR to exist were the ones in charge of it.

>>510745451
>And this is what collapsed the USSR? How?
It's not, understanding among elites about how bad soviet system was compare to capitalistic, do.

>>510744436
You're not a serious person
>There were worse shortages in the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s and 1950s and still some starvation in the 1960s

So it's a mystery to you why a system
>which has produced total misery for half a century and still would face shortages afterwards
>while having abundant resources
>while small, resource-poor neighbour Germany next door lost major wars twice while being fleeced yet managed to bounce back to wealth both times immediately

A good system with abundant resources would know no shortages. Especially after multiple generations!

>>510741834
That's kinda false, in Russia, the majority of oligarchs were Jewish dissidents or non political jews.

>>510741953
> MUH GEE DEE PEE
LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

>>510741953
>Anything bad in 1990 was far worse before
That is ABSOLUTELY false.

>>510728553
Germany out of nowhere
completely obsessed

>>510742547
It's effective but conditional in them being subordinate to the American financial system.

>>510742825
> TF
> TP

>>510723164
False Jews run Israel out of Russia
Russian Kabbala Mytsisim is Canaan. How can a Semite be a Canaanite? please explain? Canaanite are Philistines and Negro people from Africa. "Black as a Crow". Russians aren't White.
You are not the real Jews. You are Rev3:9

Got damn communist and Oligarchs controlling State of Israel

I support Jews not False Jews. You're the real AntiSemites

>>510723013 (OP)
now that's some all-American varsity tradwife material. God damn I love being American where at least I know I'm free!

>>510723214
>>510723013 (OP)
Basically this. The die hards in Russia couldn't make up for the fact that everybody else was just pretending to go along while growing their own food, raising animals in their back yard, and phoning it in at work. Soviet Union was a prison built on a foundation of murder and theft. It could not stand.

>>510746806
But what came after the collapse of the USSR was an ABSOLUTE cluster fuck.
To this day, Russia has not regained the status it had as the head of the USSR, to this day Russia is dealing with the consequences of the collapse of the USSR.
Putin will continue to deal with these consequences for decades to come.

>>510747360
But kikes ended up being FAR more powerful after the collapse of the USSR, they became the oligarch.

>>510728553
Modern Germany is West Germany 2.0

>>510746876
>So it's a mystery to you why a system
yes
it should have collapsed in 1920, yet it didnt
why did it collapse several decades after the worse parts ended?
>>510746984
>UH GEE DEE PEE
it means material goods
>>510747032
russians had less material goods in 1960 than in 1990, same as most people worldwide

>>510735962
Dude it's not that complicated. Not everyone wants to be a Russian and speak Russian. Towards the end the Soviet state was entirely focused on russian cultural supremacy and assimilating as many people as possible to try to keep as many of their prisoners as possible.
By the end it was just russian empire with extra steps.

>>510747323
That thing shat it's diaper

>>510744965
That's not what marx teaches. Marx teaches that individuals are shaped by materialism, that we have no true free will, that material conditions shape our ideas rather than ideas shaping our material conditions. The idea that an individual can never be influential is ridiculous, but that individual is not a trancedental ascended actor.

This is according to marx though.

REAL intellectuals know that some men are divinely guided towards their destinies, driven by some higher persuit towards greatness. These men appear suddenly throughout history and have long lasting changes. Hegel knew this

Many theories, some say there was soviet interference in American politics which got JFK killed, some say the moon landing was like sending a messege that they got rekt, some say that the bankers got together to shut it down when attempts were made to create the economic reforms, some say psychosis was to strong in that region for atheism to ever prevail, or perhaps it was all these things combined and all the signs were pointing towards them pretty much being defeated by the west, of course the nazis played a huge role in their attacks which really screwed up resources and logistics etc.

>>510737228
No Balts voted to join the Soviet Union. Russian army rolled in and put guns to a few politicians heads and they signed documents joining.

>>510747414
>But what came after the collapse of the USSR was an ABSOLUTE cluster fuck.

No, It was more emotions and frustration when real problems, and after 2000 level of life just skyrocketing in Russia. Modern Russia light years ahead from perspective of common folks when USSR even was in his best days. Russia literally keep best things from USSR like mass health care and education when throw away ideological trash like centralized state ruling economy and Marx teaching.

>>510747632
of course general ideas still remain of marxism which has really ruined things for everyone especially with the advent of nukes.

>>510735317
>>>ussr stayed on a war economy
>Based.
>Not sure how being efficient leads to collapse.
War economy means the production was all directed to military hardware and no consumer goods were being produced. No tvs, computers, refrigerators, washing machines etc. The conveniences that define modern society

>>510747530
Jews have more money and less power now. In the early days of the U.S.S.R. jews were murdering whoever they wanted by the tens of thousands per year. Jews can't get away with 1% of what they did under early pre-Stalin USSR.

>>510747540
>it means material goods
No.
It really doesn't.
If you pay me 10 dollars to eat cow shit and I pay you 10 dollars to eat bull crap, we would have added 20 dollar to the GDP, without improving anything.

>>510747547
>Towards the end the Soviet state was entirely focused on russian cultural supremacy
this is a belter thing unrelated to the rest of the ussr

>>510747540
>russians had less material goods in 1960 than in 1990, same as most people worldwide
Compare to the 1980s.
Where most of them became improvished right after the collapse.

>>510747879
Russia did it everywhere they controlled. Ask the Poles and Georgians and so on.

>>510747800
>Jews have more money and less power now
Explain how...
Every leads sucks their cock dry, nowdays.
America went into trillions dollars of debt fighting the GWOTS just to secure their shithole in the middle east.
> the early days of the U.S.S.R. jews were murdering whoever they wanted by the tens of thousands per year.
True but they lost their power post Stalin.

>>510747666
He's not talking about the beginning. There was a vote held over whether or not the union should be abolished. Most soviet's voted no they ignored the people's wishes

>>510747547
>Not everyone wants to be a Russian and speak Russian
But they wanted to be American and speak English, while slowly dying out due to low TFR?

>>510747870
>If you pay me 10 dollars to eat cow shit and I pay you 10 dollars to eat bull crap, we would have added 20 dollar to the GDP,
People pay prostitutes to shit in their mouth, it counts as GDP. Likely unnacounted in real life as prostitutes dont file tax reports, usually. It still counts as a material good, or actually a material service

>>510748074
There were a million Epstein jew pedos in the USSR and they got away with it. They all live in Israel now because the few who stayed are in prison.

>>510748151
There are 200 Americans in Latvia and 600,000 Russians. Russians tried to outright genocide us via forced mass immigration.

>>510748162
>People pay prostitutes to shit in their mouth, it counts as GDP.
My point exactly.
It adds nothing in terms of material products.
It is a flawed metric at best.
> Likely unnacounted in real life as prostitutes dont file tax reports
That was just an example meant to illustrate how useless GEE DEE PEE is.

>>510723013 (OP)
The offshore oil boom tanked the price of oil, which impoverished the Soviet Union.

>>510748325
>It adds nothing in terms of material products.
it is a service tho

>>510723013 (OP)
Long story short. Arms race they could not keep up with financially. You see when you spend more than you make you can and will go into debt. Debt incurs interest. The more debt you have the more debt you get. Then eventually your currency goes to shit. This is how China is trying to win the NEW COLD WAR against the U.S. They do not need to fire a single shot. They just need to fund pissant groups like the houthies to fuck with us a little. But anon how could the houthies destroy the U.S? They cant. The houthies are the equivalent of me attacking a great white shark with a fucking toothpick. However they are excellent cannon fodder. So for every missile they hurl at a CIVILIAN cargo ship, they (the Chinese and friends) spend about $1,500 USD. When the U.S goes over there to introduce them (the houthies) to BBC, we spend about oh $30,000 per missile. Do you see how this can become economically unsustainable?

>>510748207
None were as blatantly obvious to the public as Epstein.
I can go on YT and watch multiple videos stating how Epstein was a jewish pedophile working for the Mossad, everyone knows but nothing is done.

>>510748291
>There are 200 Americans
Irrelevant.
American cultural influence arrives through the internet.
You carry a rectangular NSA spy device/IED right in your fucking pocket.

>>510748402
>Arms race they could not keep up with financially.
prove it
use your personal stash of smuggled internal soviet financial documents from 1990 you keep with you

>>510723013 (OP)
Because in Moscow they realized they could never win with US Conservatives opposing them so pretended to 'collapse'. Now you have dumb fuck Conservatives cheering on picrel.

>>510748360
Yeah, a useless one.
Only industry and tangible products matters, kikes and their excel sheets can suck a dick. >>510748291
>Russians tried to outright genocide us via forced mass immigration
Mutts are doing the same, except you will get replaced by South Asians.

>>510723013 (OP)
Chernobyl was the beginning of the end. You can only pretend to be rich and powerful for so long, eventually the bill comes due.

>>510748667
Holy shit, you are dumb.
Bongs and leafs are the stupidest posters here.

>>510748769
Debunk me dumbfuck. China pretended to not be Communist in the 60's and look were that got you. Judge a nation by its actions not its name.

Because everyone hated communism because it didn't work. Not just the ordinary people but a significant minority of the communist party.
And not just the one in the USSR but its vassels in central and Eastern Europe.
In East Germany for example we now know that officials of the communist party began secretly moving money to bank accounts in the Carribean in 1988 presumably in preparation to imploding the whole system.
When junior diplomats were sent to Washington or London or Paris and attended conferences the contrast in materialism was startling. While some people are idealistic most people are just selfish and want material goods and to enjoy themselves. The simple lifestyle contrast led to envy and as these people moved up the hierarchy you got Gorbachevs and Yeltsins instead of Lenins.
Also look up "socialist calculation debate".
No free market means you can't price things properly with high prices signaling scarcity and low prices signaling abundance.
Therefore resources can't be allocated properly which is what actually happened in the USSR and this leads to problems in all sectors. In the consumer goods area you end up with shortages or other misallocations ie waiting lists for radios or only shoes in size 7 or only blue colored lampshades

>>510748564
Your right anon. They were defeated militarily. Yakub made it all the way to Moscow. It had nothing to do with their outrageous military spending. I'm sorry I'm so stupid. :(

>>510748700
>Yeah, a useless one.
subjective, some people buy houses, others hire prostitutes. Either case such transactions usually dont get recorded
GDP is mostly useful for the government as it reates to taxing business and income, but the govt compiles extensive statistics and not just GDP, which is the grossest added up compiled income. Its best to get the breakdown by sectors
And all it means is the sum of all net income, without counting double. A higher gdp means theres more income, income being the sum of all net salaries, all taxes and all profits after tax
that prostitute gets paid and whoever paid got his desired service, its valid

>>510723013 (OP)
Shots were fired, retard. Pro Soviet forces surround the Duma. Go learn history.

>>510749224
glad you recognized your mistake, you are a big guy

>>510723013 (OP)
Gorbachev

>>510723013 (OP)
Communism is cancer

>>510723013 (OP)
I make that question everyday
It doesn't make sense

>>510749347
Have a good one lol.

>>510723013 (OP)
Oil price crash. OG ziggers literally went bankrupt because they produced nothing and so had nothing else to sell.

The soviets did an impromptu visit to a Texas supermarket and after seeing the immense and opulent prosperity of America they wrongly concluded that it was capitalism itself and not the United States abundant resources, sitting out ww2, unique geography and lack of hostile neighbors that made such prosperity possible.

So in true Slavic fashion they saw something complex but applied a surface level understanding to it and reasoned that if they just switched over they would magically become prosperous too.

And then shock therapy happened at the urging of American economists, and them the chaos of the 90s happened. And then things got so shitty and bad that ex-KGB puppet master Putin basically had to step in and strongman the oligarchs back under control with the threat of death and implement a bunch of quasi-socialist policies to stabilize things.

But even despite all that capitalist russia is still a shadow of its former glory. A shuffling zombie lunching forward on old Soviet reserves and crumbling infrastructure.

Worse still they have to watch as China which didn't give up on communism and indeed improved upon it, overshadow them in every aspect simply by not trying to copy americans.

>>510749800
>Oil price crash. OG ziggers literally went bankrupt
didnt happen, a country cant go bankrupt anyway

>>510749800
ukranians are ziggers now? last time i checked ukraine was a ssr

>>510723013 (OP)
We put massive tariffs and sanctions against them/their allies while supporting proxy wars among their allies and spreading propaganda against them so that their trade/economy collapsed with no means of international support. We've done pretty much the same thing to every single communist country since the federal reserve's creation I'm 1913. Turn them into an impoverished shithole, then say communism doesn't work so we can have wildly unfair deals in our favor in exchange for "helping them establish democracy".
tldr Jews

>>510749099
Or perhaps it's because the Soviet ruling class deluded themselves into believing they could join the shadow government of the west and become equals. The result? Millions had to suffer and are still exploited till this day because of those gullible retards.

>>510750366
>We put massive tariffs and sanctions against them/their allies
oh no not a tariff on the valuable angolan... eh that, the angolan USSR trade of

>>510723269
This can be prevented if we allow them to transition earlier

>>510723013 (OP)
There was alot of shooting actually…still is

>>510723013 (OP)
Serious answer.
Starting with Khruschev, started introducing half-assed reforms which created a corrupt parasite class at the top of Soviet production firms who acted as a crypto bourgiousie. Infighting between various departments as well, led to stagnation and massive industrial espionage between departments and firms under Brezhnev (for example the Soviet Internet and the N1 rocket engines).
Come the early 1980s, it's clear the Soviet union needs, reforms, they elect Andropov. He brings in people from all walks of life and a bunch of different ideologies, to basically reform the USSR. He starts with massive scale corruption purges, this actually starts working the USSR starts improving. It's budget back in black, the Soviet economy seeing improving growth.
Andropov IMMEDIATELY fucking DIES, and the Neoliberal faction that was brought in, led by Alexander Yakovlev, seizes power, and puts a puppet into power, Gorbachev.
Gorby passes a bunch of literal fucking RETARDED reforms. Nukes the entire Soviet Economy by 30%. Meanwhile the Neolibs work with the crypto bourgiousie at the top of firms, to start fucking up the system to a groundstill. Reports from the time is that people trying to unload cargo ships and trains etc were attacked by Bratva, trucks never turned up, workers time tables were all fucked etc.
Soviet media is passed to literally anti-Communist forces, they are told
"Hit at ML with Lenin, hit at Lenin with Plekahnov, hit at Plekahnov with Marx, hit at Marx with Social Democracy, hit at Social Democracy with Liberalism". The entire Soviet media starts trashing the CPSU and Government.
Republics like the Balts start breaking away, Gorby does nothing, kind of realizes he's a retard being used, gets couped by Yeltsin who is an ultra-corrupt retarded gangster. Yeltsin bans the Communist Party, referendum is held to stay the USSR, pretty much everyone votes yes, Yetsin and his cronies disband the USSR anyway.
That is how the USSR was dissolved.

>>510745405
Maybe all the high trust (intelligent) Russians moved to the West? All the Russians I've met here in Eastern Finland have been doctors.

communism in a nutshell
>hey can you pay me to do something, i want the money upfront
>hey can you pay me to have kids, i want to have a lot of kids
>hey can you decide what I want, I want a lot of crap
>get replaced by the lowest members of society
communism would've imploded today if they just saw what people were sharing on instagram
communism can only be achieved by europeans or chinks most countries people don't have enough CLASS to make something work and foreigners don't want to work for free

>>510750570
>hey elect Andropov.
>Former Soviet leader Yuri Andropov had Jewish roots, according to recent reports in the Russian press.

Andropov, who was in charge of the KGB for 15 years and then headed the USSR from November 1982 until his death in February 1984, concealed his Jewish background after he entered the Communist Party as a young man, according to the reports.

Andropov’s mother, Yevgeniya Faynshtein, was a music teacher in southern Russia. The fate of Andropov’s father remains a mystery. His mother later remarried a Russian Greek named Andropulo. His adopted son later changed this last name to a more Russian-sounding one.

>>510750570
Also throw in the shelling of the white house. Anyone that pretends the dismantling of the USSR was demographic, or Yeltsin gave a single fucking shit about "Democracy" is a retard. Yeltsin literally rose to power through massive corruption and organized crime, and led the USSR literally looting more than the entire Russian GDP. He set up a department called the Kremlin Property Department, and literally gave himself all Soviet property, then started giving it away to all his friends and mafioso and Westerners who would invite him to parties. Putin was deputy head of that Department btw.

>>510736992
>muh salaries
>WhatsAFoodStamp.jpeg

>>510749347
1970s: The Soviet Union's military expenditure was roughly 10-12% of its GDP. This high level of spending was driven by the arms race with the United States, including the development of nuclear weapons, the Warsaw Pact military commitments, and technological advancements.

Early 1980s: Military spending peaked, often estimated at around 12-15% of GDP. Under leaders like Brezhnev and Andropov, the USSR continued to prioritize military capabilities, leading to a significant military-industrial complex.

Mid to Late 1980s: With Gorbachev's policies of perestroika and glasnost, there was a gradual reduction in military expenditure. By the late 1980s, military spending as a percentage of GDP declined to approximately 8-10%, reflecting economic strains and shifts in strategic priorities.
The Soviet Union allocated a substantial portion of its GDP to military purposes throughout this period.
The peak occurred in the early 1980s, aligned with heightened Cold War tensions.
Economic challenges and political reforms in the late 1980s prompted a reduction in military spending.

Yes I am using AI as a source due to the fact I do not have hours to spend writing an essay for you. No do I have the time to explain how the global economic system works.

Sincerely, Yakub

I think there no just one reason to fellt apart. There was complex degradation.

>>510750933
And using 8-15% of your money for a thing... bankrupts you?

>>510750570
Oh, also later on turns out likely Yakovlev was literally a paid US agent. That is an important thing.
Also a big fuckup of Khruschev was the Secret speech and destalinization, it basically destroyed the foundational basis of the USSR, and was based often hilariously on anti-Soviet propaganda, that was later found, with the opening of the archives in 97, to be all horseshit. For example, Stalin had no breakdown at the start of the Barbarossa, he was in meetings immediately organizing moving factories to the East.
Destalinization is like if the US literally "all the founding fathers were slave owning, weed smoking rapists and the entire US is based on a lie" and started tearing down statues of them and censoring them from public life. Absolutely retarded move considering Stalin was a massively popular figure globally at the time. ("Uncle Joe!")
On Soviet firms fucking eachother over. The Soviet Union probably would have had fucking INTERNET and CELL PHONES in the 1960s if it wasn't for the competition between soviet departments. The Financial Department in particular fucking HATED computers and computing technology so defunded it whenever they could because they thought it would lead to the statistical department (main computer guys, developed the Soviet internet) overtaking their role.
In a way, the USSR Nomenklatura ran like the old Chinese imperial "merits" system, and what do you think first when you think Imperial China? Scheming backstabbing, sabotaging eunuchs.

>>510723013 (OP)
We printed a lot of rubles, until the whole system collapsed.

>>510750832
Jewish, but he absolutely was far more pragmatic and oversaw decent reforms, unlike fucking Gorbachev.
I think in the running for most incompetent world leader in modern history, Gorbachev, Liz Truss and Yeltsin, are easily top contenders.

>>510751382
>>510751382
how did andropov die?

>>510751534
Soviet Economy was actually in the black when Andropov croaked. Gorbachev and Yakovlev completely assfucked the economy like noone else. 30% economic drop. Imagine a -30% growth number appearing on GDP charts today, the country would implode immediately.

The same way Rzeczpospolita disappeared without a single husar charge

Eastern Europe is cursed

Don't come here, unless you want aids, bitchy women and trashy alcohol. Im serious. Don't come here

It stagnated and it became not worth it to maintain it either so they gave the jews heads up that soon it will be a good time to buy the stuff they would privatize soon because the goyim obviously didn't have the connections or the money to buy the assets which the state you used to own. On paper I suppose every citizen was given some portion or whatever, but it definitely was not a picnic for a lot of goyim who were used to things being not great but at least being stagnated is somewhat stable.

Of course a lot jews just left Russia/East Europe but they had a lot better chance of leaving SU thru it's whole existence because again, better connections and not being goyim.

>>510751590
Type 1 Diabetes leading to Kidney Failure.

>>510751306
Most 1st world countries in Europe spend around 5%. Also Japan. Percentages add up. Compounding interest on debt can and will fuck you. Also the corruption was a killer. But speaking of interest... How much are you being paid to shill today? Can you hook me up with a job?

There was a joke about SU. "Horse worked more of everyone, but not became leader of kolhoz"

>>510750570
Don't be dumb. Andropov had been de facto leader of the USSR since he became KGB director in the late 1960s, and Gorbachev was his protege
See >>510736793

>>510750570
>and the Neoliberal faction that was brought in, led by Alexander Yakovlev, seizes power, and puts a puppet into power, Gorbachev.
how did this happen, seizes power how

>>510751804
>Most 1st world countries in Europe spend around 5%. A
So if you spend 5% on one thing and then 5% on another thing, that bankrupts you?

>>510723013 (OP)
Destroyed from the inside by traitors.

>>510751382
>The Financial Department in particular fucking HATED computers and computing technology so defunded it whenever they could
- this, but not the entire department. For example, State Bank every 5 years were posting reports saying how bad is the economy and what must be done ASAP to save it. But heads of state didnt listen, they just wanted more money to print. Also, the proposed solutions were "economy liberalization", "putting efficiency as top priority", but the party was saying "nah, thats not how communism must work". But China listened to these solutions and look where are China now...

>>510751654
Gorbaciov just accelerated the inevitable. Economy was in deep shit from the 70s

Also there is one thing, in late 80s, there was a strong nationalism sentiment in every small republic. Everyone was thinking "we feed the Moscow, Moscow sucks our resources, so if we break away from Russia, we gonna be rich"...

>>510723013 (OP)
it got mogged by a grocery store in texas

>>510752076
OOOK hoe. How about you spend 5% of the income you make shilling here on anal lube? Sound good? I would hate it if you bottomed out before your prime.

>>510723013 (OP)
Wait, is that a Russian man?

>>510752149
>Economy was in deep shit from the 70s
how, explain what part of the economy contracted
i can see the oil sector fluctuating with the ups and downs of the price, anything else?

>>510752344
It's all post-hoc NPC slop, Empires don't collapse suddenly because of muh bad economy

>>510723013 (OP)
It didn't.. they just focused all their resources on propaganda and 3d chess..

>>510751996
It didn't happen, literally nobody itt has the slighest clue what he's blabbering about

>>510752344
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=soviet+agriculture+70s

>>510752607
>fedorchuck
>Chuck

>>510752344
Quantity over Quality: They maximized quantity, not quality, like, thicker steel sheets to hit “tons” goals, shoes that fell apart quickly.

No Market Economy = no closses - With no risk of closure, firms had little reason to cut costs, innovate, or invest wisely.

No Motivation to Grow: Once the annual quota was in sight, effort and creativity slumped. “we pretend to work, they pretend to pay”

Centralized investments decision - Gosplan was allocating all the money in heavy industry and military. Western countries invested more in tech, consuming goods and services.

All these cons and economy inefficiency accumulated year after year.

>>510751382
>>510750910
>>510750570
Russians always seem like they are their own worst enemy and if they could for once in their existence actually cooperate with and trust each other they might really be a force to be reckoned with. But as they are they are like a team of horses all trying to pull the cart in a different direction.

>>510752607
Gorbachev was a sycophant West fanboy who had no ideas of his own and just listened to what his self serving advisors and ministers told him to do. You might be surprised to know that unlike his contemporaries he came into the narrow upper circle not due to administrative prowess or military accolades but because he was originally in charge of the elite retreat for high party functionaries where he managed to win their confidence via his exceptional tending to their needs for relaxation. Under his puppet master, Yakovlev a deliberate campaign of discrediting and dismantling the Soviet system was launched.
I mean, look at how much the US fucking jerks off Andropov as basically a national hero.
https://www.hudson.org/foreign-policy/alexander-yakovlev-r-i-p-
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/19/world/europe/aleksandr-n-yakovlev-81-dies-helped-shape-perestroika-and.html
https://www.acton.org/publications/transatlantic/2017/11/21/forgotten-champion-liberty-alexander-yakovlev

>>510753250
Sorry, jerks off Yakovlev*
Brain is melting in this London heat.

>>510753084
>, thicker steel sheets to hit “tons” goals, shoes that fell apart quickly.
i feel this is more of a 1925 thing than a 1970 thing. Plus it makes no sense, bad steel would just go unsold
Which was a thing in the USSR, along with the shortages there were surpluses of some things no one wanted.
But i dont see how this was suddenly bad in the 1970s. No one made bad shoes in the USSR before the 1970s?

>>510730610
This and the bumpkins just keep screaming MAGA. It’s fking hilarious.

>>510723570
does it end with, and embody "ew"?

>>510753163
Soviet system was largely doomed from the fact they inhereted the bloated fucking dogshit Tsarist systems and Soviet "meritocracy" was basically a carbon copy, like I said, of the Chinese Imperial "merits" system. Nomenklature basically worked as you tried to get merits and credit for all work done by any means, this incentivizes of course, in petty office environments fucking over everyone around you. Nomenklature basically turned instantly into also you rub my back, I rub yours sort of corruption.
I guess it made sense more in the context they were working with at the time. Social Democracy was barely even functional in most Western countries at the time, but it's pretty clear the seeds that fucked the system were sown pretty early.
I think China and the CCP pretty much streamlined and reformed most of the system pretty well and it functions more like they properly intended.
I like to think of the USSR as like, 0.3beta version of Leninism, and Modern China as the first 1.0 Release.

>>510753250
Again, Gorbachev had always been an Andropov protege and plant, everything with respect to the controlled demolition of the USSR leads back to Andropov, but as I said he and Kissinger colluded covertly to run the fake and gay Cold War together for its final 25 years or so, and Yakovlev was of course a Kissinger plant himself - Kissinger in turn having been a 'Soviet asset' too, and I put that between '' because again, the Cold War was fake and gay jewish theater

>>510747540
you better be a hot fourteen year old girl with giant jugs as you're criminally naive and undereducated

>it should have collapsed in 1920, yet it didnt
no state has to collapse, in fact primitve states endure better throughout history because there is very little they have to provide. 1920 Russia was in a worse state than any modern western state today. Collapse is not what you think it is.
>why did it collapse several decades after the worse parts ended?
wtf because about twenty things came together, and it mostly converges on economic shit because if things would have been materially rosey, the SU would still exist
>more and more countries rebelled against Russia
>technology, while competitive in the 60s was gone, nothing of interest was produced in the east
>any cultural war was also lost, nobody cared for anything Sovietsky, zero export. Meanwhile people were literally spreading their legs for a VHS tape or a vinyl record from the west
>no ideas, no vision, no trust, no solidarity was to be found within the party. If you think the west has bad politicians, which is correct of course, you have no idea how people felt in the SU, Biden in comparison seems like a young, spry, energetic maverick

I could go on but you get the gist.
However, this here is especially sad:
>russians had less material goods in 1960 than in 1990, same as most people worldwide
total horseshit. The state lied like crazy, stats were bogus. Most bloc countries went backwards because what meager wealth they might have enjoyed during the 60s totally eroded in the next 20 years. Obviously this led to terrible morale. Russia knew after Afghanistan it couldn't keep its vassals on a leash any longer as their own soldiers were getting restless.

>>510753827
>no merit is when merit system

>>510753364
>first golf war. Trying to sell my scud missiles.

Scud missiles are inferior to U.S minutemen Missiles.

>Can no longer sell scud missiles. Nobody want to buy them.

>Economy collapses.

Simple as.

>>510741953
>ussr is set up to extract resources from neighbors and give it to russia
>ussr collapses
>russia can no longer steal from neighbors
>russia gdp goes down
this is a good thing, russia's theft from others was ended

>>510753973
>about twenty things came together
I dont believe any of this matters, you are flinging shit and hoping it sticks (to your shit wall in your shit house made of shit you fling)

>>510753973
>total horseshit. The state lied like crazy, stats were bogus.
Ah so soviet industries produced more in the 1960s and then they just cut down on ovetime, is that what you are saying?
People used to work 10 hours, then ony 9 hours. This is why the USSR collapsed

>>510723013 (OP)
This woman is objectively ugly. wouldn't fuck.

>>510754134
>this is a good thing, russia's theft from others was ended
GDP also went down in the other ex commie countries. Everyone recovered eventually, except north korea and cuba, whom are true good for nothing parasites

>>510754134
No given Russia's current geographical situation they have dam near everything you could need when it comes to minerals, nuclear material and other resources. They set up their entire economy based on a war that NEVER HAPPENED. No the cold war does not count. Yes they recouped some of the money they spent selling shit weapons to Africa.. But that was not enough to maintain there overinflated bureaucracy and oligarchy.

>>510753973
Here here. This anon is extremely ignorant. Or a paid shill.

>>510754839
>. But that was not enough to maintain there overinflated bureaucracy and oligarchy.
false, they had enough money to pay for their expenses

>>510754945
>This anon is extremely ignorant. Or a paid shill.
I'm not a paid shill. I'm kind of ignorant tho and this is why i ask questions. Some people fear my questions tho. Curious.

>>510723013 (OP)
jews.
and you're a fag.

>>510755114
Then why did they collapse? Please enlighten me.

>>510755391
I dont know. I dont think economic troubles cause a country to collapse. Why would it. Whats the pathway from low % growth rate two years to welp better destroy everything?
As far as i can tell from a legal point of view Boris Yeltsin destroyed the USSR along with the leaders of some of these republics when they declared independence and they all agree on it. I dont know what backroom deals where made to make that happen.
No economic trouble forced the hand of any of these leaders to break the USSR. Breaking it also didnt solve any problem, the whole thing is unrelated

>>510749258
>subjective
No.
It's entirely objective.
> A higher gdp means theres more income, income being the sum of all net salaries
The increase in income doesn't necessarily mean an increase in production.
For example if you start overprinting, to stimulate the ecomony, you will see an increase in income but a reduction in value of the currency.

>>510755217
>false, they had enough money to pay for their expenses

It sounds like to me you already have a narrative and are just wasting everyone's time.

>>510749333
It was a figure of speech, retard.

>>510749224
> If you spend resources on tangible goods, instead of Israel, your counrty will collapse
Shush, Gomez.

>>510723013 (OP)
It started wars it couldn't win. just like the russia.

>>510750570
Add to this that rulers of each SSR (including the RSFSR) found it more profitable to become independent rather than share the pie with the rest, and the worst crime is that they convinced the population that dividing the country into over a dozen of states is better than solving any problems at hand.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzbek_cotton_scandal

>>510756087
>The increase in income doesn't necessarily mean an increase in production.
Total production equals total income and equals total consumption plus investment (not all expenditures are on consumption).
The real life statistics never add up perfectly as these are theoretical concepts and basically many transactions never get registered, so the real economy is actually bigger
>>510756087
>increase in income but a reduction in value of the currency.
GDP simply defines total income, it doesnt say if this is worth more or less in real life. You dont have to explain what inflation is or how zimbabweans are not really trillionaires

>>510749930
It must suck for them to watch China surpass them, this hard.
China was their junior partner, look at them now.
Imagine of the USSR leadership was as competent as that of China.

>>510744965
the leftcoms were right all along. one must simply sit and wait for communism.

>>510756094
>It sounds like to me you already have a narrative
No, im just asking questions. You seem angry, defensive even. Are you so upset at the truth being pursuited?

>>510756479
Ok what is the truth? How do you see it? I'm curious. Either put in serious input or im done responding.

>>510756619
>done responding.
this, you have no answers

>>510754588
I've actually been in these countries, I've spoken to relatives and collegues. Nobody ever wondered why the state collapsed.
>h so soviet industries produced more in the 1960s and then they just cut down on ovetime, is that what you are saying?
>People used to work 10 hours, then ony 9 hours. This is why the USSR collapsed

You are stupid beyond normal stupidity.
Productivity went steadily down. On PAPER, a worker who did, compared to his western collegues work productively for maybe two hours tops got a nice cheque, usually earning more than a doctor. But obviously a plan can't really decide demand, so you couldn't buy shit for your paper money because nobody wanted to buy what your company produced. Not your neighbour and no one internationally.

This is rare on 4c: everybody, even normies understand a perfectly understandable historical phenomenon better than you. You've reached the flat earth tier of ignorance.

>>510734927
The elites brought their spoilt and corrupt children to power, thereby undermining the entire concept of communism from within. The people grew tired of this and started practising Italian-style sabotage. As a result, living standards dropped drastically, leaving the younger generation with no choice but to revolt - and that's exactly what they did.
The extreme climate zone, lack of self-sufficiency and organisation, and some 'freedom influencers' have finished the job.

>>510757143
>Productivity went steadily down.
I dont believe you and even if GDP was down, which it wasnt, its no reason for a country to breal down.
The soviet union didnt have a decrease in productivity. Their GDP per capita rose over time, i have posted the graphs in this thread and they get dismissed as either soviet lies or dismissed and told that GDP isnt real.
If you dont trust soviet statistics then you also wont have any source to talk about changes in soviet productivty. How would you know? Thats such a specific thing.
How would you even know about productivity changes in the USSR over several decades? You cant unless you trust state documents, hence you are lying and making shit up.

>>510750832
Of course it's a jew that started this.

>>510751559
He was the one brought Gorby in.

>>510723245
>That subversive crypto capitalist Gorbachev embraced degenerate western ideals such as "freedom" and "liberty" with glasnost. The PRC had the right idea to split from the CCCP.
You fucking retards realize that the USSR and PRC hated each other in the early 60s well before Gorbachev right? Learn to read faggot.

>>510723013 (OP)
>how the fuck did the USSR collapse without a shot fired.
There was a coup attempt but the dissolution of the USSR was very peaceful all things considered. It happened because many of the satellites didn't want to be to the Soviet union and were forced into it after WW2. Thank the Lithuanian chads (sparking the rest of the Baltics to flip the USSR the bird) for kicking it all off when they declared independence like all based countries do from their former oppressors.

>>510757161
>eaving the younger generation with no choice but to revolt - and that's exactly what they did.
Except there was no popular revolt in the end of the USSR, people found out their country was gone on the TV news

>>510757810
>Thank the Lithuanian chads (sparking the rest of the Baltics to flip the USSR the bird
Once again this is only the baltics, you cant extrapolate that to the rest of the USSR, particulary to the core russian regions like belarus and ukraine

>>510757481
We have exact numbers. After the fall, east Germany, the jewel of the SU was meticulously compared to western companies. So you oftentime had mirrored facilities with the same people and similar history and so forth.
Turns out, even in the GDR you could kick out around 80% of staff. People barely worked even though the list of excuses was long.
You can go through eastern companies and recognise they downsized regularly by 80% to get competitive. I know this professionally, political debates, I got this from family, these aren't secrets but well-known facts.

You tell us which traditional SU/Russian companies managed to build huge influential brands. The west has hundreds of well known brands they created from the aforementioned period of 60s-80s.

>>510757898
> there was no revolt
are you sure?

>>510751680
That sucks, man.
Millions of slavs died to give rise to the USSR only for it to collapse right on their heads.

>>510757898
>there was no popular revolt in the end of the USSR, people found out their country was gone on the TV news

right, just millions of people in the streets. The atmosphere was exhilarating btw.

are you on drugs right now?