Thread 510774541

for like the last 15 years the mainstream opinion was that it's the currency of the future. meanwhile this shit doesn't even make sense as a currency. it's basically a stock based on nothing.

if it was a currency i could go into a store and buy a rake or gatorade or whatever. it's been like 30 years and you still can't do that. why? say you own a pizza shop and you accept btc. sell pizzas for $10. by accepting btc you have effectively put your pizzas on the stock market. fucking opening a pizza place is a gamble and accepting btc is a double gamble.

this shit is all going to crash and burn. i used to be a firm believer in crypto but it has been too long and it's going nowhere.

sold all my crypto two weeks ago for 50k. my bro has ~400k in crypto and i'm trying to convince him to hop out but he's in the crypto cult.

>>510774541 (OP)
The only people who truly value from crypto are the ultra-wealthy capable of insider trading their way into a pump and dump + the very slim minority of normie investors who just get lucky. If you're not a millionaire/billionaire with connections, you should just stay the fuck away from that entire market.

you can pay for food with bitcoin
not every place accepts it but many do

>>510774740
>costs 1.70 per tx
>need to wait 60 minutes for confirmation
Kek

>what is the use of btc
To buy penis envy magic mushrooms on the clearnet from British Columbia.

>>510774541 (OP)
Most stock is based on nothing
I had Washington Mutual stock before it went under
They sold it to JP Morgan
I didn't get a cent of it

>>510775196
I have a vague idea about bitcoin but why is this the case today? Just not enough activity on the network?

>>510775313
>Most stock is based on nothing
but you see my point, right? as a business owner why would you want to accept fucking mcdonald's stock or whatever as payment? that's why btc will never work

>>510775196
>i'm retarded and wrong
>and i'm going to be loud about it, too
kek

>>510774541 (OP)
zero use

>>510775693
>zero use
>not being assfucked by government debasement of fiat

ITT forever poorfags refusing to use a simple tool to store wealth thus staying poor

>>510774541 (OP)
Making people who aren't invested in it seethe

>>510776007
No point trying to explain it to no coiners. They’ll buy too late, as usual.
>t. Whole coiner

>>510775196
>>510775449
The point is that the cost of base layer transactions is about as relevant as the cost and accessibility of doing a fed master account transfer. Bitcoin is a currency and it could just replace fiat and be used in VISA or paypal whatever just like EUR in place of USD, any payment system could add BTC.

Bitcoin allows everyone to participate in the base layer which provides self custody, censorship resistance, but the primary value is from its use as a unit of account. To compare base layer speed and fees is pointless because fiat doesn't even offer this feature to non-banks. The throughput of a fiat self custody transfer is 0 because you can't self custody, the fee is infinity because you can't do it.

99% of people will use bitcoin because they can keep their savings in a unit that the government isn't constantly siphoning wealth from or has the risk of hyperinflation when gov wants to print money to bomb people on the other side of the world or doll out to cronies. It may even be used to denominate wages eventually so they aren't constantly suppressed by the fiat inflationary regime where you have to battle to get cost of living raising to just tread water vs inflation to not get poorer every year.

>>510774541 (OP)
Crypto cultists are retarded. It's not supposed to be treated as an "investment". Hal finney is rolling in his grave right now.
>>510775449
Difficulty increases as time goes by.

>>510775662
>why would you accept dollars as payment?
same reasons.
modern currencies are every bit as made up as cryptocurrrencies

>>510775879
>>zero use
>>not being assfucked by government debasement of fiat
what is the practical use of a "currency" that changes in value every hour? if i want a can of coke it's the same price every day. if the dollar changes in value it will take months for the store owner to adjust pricing. meanwhile btc and eth have +/- 5% swings every day. how can you do business like that?

>>510774541 (OP)
>seriously what is the use of btc and eth?
1. To soak up excess liquidity in the market.
2. Pump and dump scheme

>>510774541 (OP)
The silly man's tax

>>510776645
>same reasons.
>modern currencies are every bit as made up as cryptocurrrencies
but they're not practical. slow to verify through the blockchain. always viewed in terms of $s. so what's the point?

>>510774541 (OP)
The killer app of the classic blockchain is finality.

With Bitcoin, it's a distributed ledger that incentivizes its perpetuation. With Ethereum, it was similar (kinda become a Frankenstein's monster since but I digress), but with Turing-complete programmability bolted on and the concept of gas as a workaround for the halting problem.

Bitcoin is valued because it's deterministic, has a verifiably finite supply, and is exceedingly expensive to compromise.

Ethereum's the first mover in smart contracts and has a massive braintrust but the nature of its value is less clear these days. Combination of speculative hoarding, staking for interest, and pairing in liquidity pools.

>>510774541 (OP)
its a decentralized bank ledger. Its more of a bank than a currency. Which is why when the dollar collapses bitcoin will also collapse.

>>510776757
Every currency "changes value" all the time. Look at commodity prices. Dominate currencies just have the illusion of stability because you have your wage and liabilities denominated in them, consumer prices are briefly fixed. But if you just fixed your wages and liabilities (rent, etc.) in BTC then BTC would seem like its stable and every other currency changing. Its just a frame of reference.

>>510776593
Mainstream economics treats currents as investments, its the basis of the Fisher Rule that is how every modern central bank determines its interest rates. Offer a higher rate makes the currency a better investment to fight inflation and vice versa. Bitcoin doesn't pretend to be a stable unit value in the face of a government debasing it so bitcoin doesn't have this problem.

>>510776844
>2. Pump and dump scheme
i swear this shit is going to be the next "dot.com crash". during the dot.com boom people were at least buying on businesses. now with crypto they're trading on thin air. the currency buys nothing and it has been ~30 years.

>>510775915
>>510775964
These are meaningless examples as what is being displayed is not bitcoin transactions, but L2. Also known as third party bs known as PayPal, etc.

BTC hasn't been viable for commerce since 2014.

>>510776593
I understand difficulty increasing with time causes the reward of getting block of bitcoin payment for solving the correct equation but I thought the incentive of it increasing in value over time made the reward worth searching out even towards the end of blocks being released. Why does it take a while (supposedly) to complete a transaction?

>>510777412
>BTC hasn't been viable for commerce since 2014.

based

>>510777243
>Every currency "changes value" all the time. Look at commodity prices. Dominate currencies just have the illusion of stability because you have your wage and liabilities denominated in them, consumer prices are briefly fixed. But if you just fixed your wages and liabilities (rent, etc.) in BTC then BTC would seem like its stable and every other currency changing. Its just a frame of reference.
volatility. if you owned a business, would you accept tesla stock as a form of payment? basically the same thing if you accepted btc. just take your dollars.

>>510777537
>Why does it take a while (supposedly) to complete a transaction?

If I understand your question, it's basically the time required for the transaction to be broadcast around the network, batched and included in a block by miners, and for miners to mine a hash of a certain difficulty and then come to consensus on the next block.

PoS blockchains have lots of fancy algorithmic tricks for faster transaction finality (while some literally just run a single server everyone feeds transactions to - especially the case with Layer 2s), but with an assortment of tradeoffs.

>>510777412
Ok and? You can use this same argument with fiat.

>>510777704
So Tesla stock is worthless? You're confused between different use cases:
1. Store of value
2. Payment system
3. Unit of value

If a business owner accepts USD though various payment systems, but they end up investing their profits in stocks or crypto or buying real goods and services in the end, where is the value actually?

>>510774541 (OP)
Sometimes I send usdt to my close relatives to the country that was being cut off from Swift not a long time ago. They exchange into their currency. It's cheaper than using a bank transfer or western union. So there is my use. I hold other crypto in case I have to go back so I don't bring any cash with me on a plane.

It's not like fiat is based on anything either

>>510777981
Bitcoin isn't fiat. Moving economic activity off the blockchain defeats the point of the blockchain.

At best Bitcoin provides another financial vehicle as opposed to a new monetary system or electronic cash as proposed.

Just raise the blocksize, nigger.

Commodities are are happy owning nothing

>>510774541 (OP)
it's just a speculative asset to make easy money since no one wants to work a real job anymore

>>510778510
Commodities are the only way unless you are happy owning nothing*

>>510778454
The base layer is a check, like having a gold standard. Its not as good as exchanging gold but it combines a lot of benefits of both. Unfortunately there is natural limitations to global bandwidth and storage that limit base layer throughput, and high block sizes don't scale in real world use cases vs a few nodes close together. The max rate of any blockchain with users around the world will be a few hundred tps no matter what because of latency and bandwidth. Then you have storage issues in the long run. With a big block size you'd need massively connected data-center and massive storage to run a node, and you'd only get a marginal increase in TPS that still doesn't come anywhere near supporting something like a consumer payment network. The value is in using btc as a store of value and unit of account, not payment system.

>>510774541 (OP)
>meanwhile this shit doesn't even make sense as a currency
BTC on its own is impractical for small transactions, like gold
For large transactions it makes sense
As for the purpose:
No government on earth can prevent you sending btc to someone and no government on earth can prevent your wallet from receiving btc
It's that simple
You're your own bank if you own some and use practically anything but a hot wallet
>my bro has ~400k in crypto and i'm trying to convince him to hop out but he's in the crypto cult
Bull market isn't close to over
Nov-Jan time period, may last a little past Jan
We're very low volatility currently, nowhere close to the mania of the top
Even if he doesn't sell off, wait 4 years
>sold all my crypto two weeks ago for 50k
Tard

>>510774541 (OP)
>ai will soon be unrecognizable or indistinguishable
>some crypto will be used for authentication
>others will be used like a key in the digital world granting access to "places" and "things"
>giving them value
>btc is compared to gold as its supposed to govern value and worth of everything else
>what i think will happen with eth is that it will act as "cash" to btc being "gold"
Technology had to catch up to the internet when it was created. Current technology is catching up to crypto in the same way. Only a few will survive with actual use cases that reach both worlds, digital and real. Btc and eth will be survivors. You can do a brief history research on electrical engineering, computers, modules, communication devices and almost figure out what's going to happen with crypto and its scenarios of use. But if the system gets unplugged everyone is rugged.

>>510774541 (OP)
Sorry jews i dont want your fiat i will use btc and crypto.

>>510779096
This post is a perfect example of a redditor who thinks a raspberry pi that syncs with what miners do in Bitcoin impacts or matters at all to the network. Fell for banker propaganda 10 years ago.

Modern miners are sophisticated data centers. They can easily handle 200gb every 10 mins or over a million transactions per second.

Or over $3,000,000 in fees alone is every transaction paid half a penny.

>>510779434

The gov can just make it illegal and no business would touch it.

>>510779688
>its a huge decentralized network
Exactly. This is why bitcoin is dangerous imho. Who owns those data centers? How many machines have to go offline before bitcoin can no longer handle the transaction volume? Its almost worst then having bankers in charge of it.

Imagine there was ww3 and a bunch of countries became isolationists and decoupled their nodes from the network? Or all the miners got together and decided to do a power play.

>>510774541 (OP)
>t. living in (((hyperinflation)))
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210601-lebanon-crisis-among-world-s-worst-since-1850s-world-bank

(((keynesians))) deserve the rope
fuck pissrael
fuck central banks
death to fiat

you're delusional if you think it's not currency
also
>pic related
monero is the final solution to the taxman question

>>510779575
based

>>510774541 (OP)
The most jewy thing is tons of us were in early for years but just now 2025 it pumps no one but kikes stayed liquid this long it's all a scam by globohomo

>>510774541 (OP)
It's like credit cloning
but it's asset cloning
once peole figure it out it's gonna be great

>>510780058
What counts as a crypto?
Venezuelans were using osrs gold for crypto while their currency went to the shitter

>>510774676
I'm told there's alt coin cabals of people who got lucky early that run private telegrams and coordinate what shitcoin they all collectively want to pump.
I'd give a lot to be a fly on the wall in those.

also
if anyone can unironically help a brother out I'd be grateful

BTC:
3JgC5fXR4TLTCoNXDATZSnryaP8hLKSg2o

XMR:
863z4PE1ZBzC6BEixibR1YYqZVX3mEXHoB9WuibmhURPAnXFGihSGHKEhPEM7qmFxpXtS2PJisoQ8HGX4MjEYt2h4y5zvLg

>>510780165
Bankers are in charge of it because it doesn't scale. Nothing to do with its infrastructure.

If it scaled (literally raise blocksize) then none of the PayPal tier """""""""scaling solutions""""""""" would exist and people would be exchanging bitcoin for things.

>>510780450
>Modern miners are sophisticated data centers. They can easily handle 200gb every 10 mins or over a million transactions per second.
You said this... so I'm just responding to that. If it doesn't scale then thats almost even worse. At some somebody is going to lose their fuckin money. Or not be able to sell when they want to.

>>510780760
It not scaling is only beneficial to banks. It requires you to use their money transfer services or their paper BTC options. It's trash. Increase the blocksize.

>>510774541 (OP)
you can sell it to idiots for actual money. You can use actual money to buy cool stuff

>>510781452
>I hate America, but love niggers starter kit

>>510774740
Few do*

>>510774541 (OP)
Its digital money that you don't have to keep in a bank.

>>510774541 (OP)
It's called bitcoin, bit because it's digital, and coin because it's like money, which is very clever.

This is what makes it have value.

>>510774541 (OP)
As soon as people stop buying it the value plummits

>>510775313
Stock is based on the determined value of a company it’s still retried but makes more sense than Bitcoin. You’re basically giving the company a loan with the hopes that they grow and your money expands with it

>>510781654
People put their money in banks because it’s insured. A physical hard drive is sketchy. A coin exchange is just a bank

Don't care jew. Never selling, buying every day. Literally a millionaire. Get fucked rabbai

>>510781861
The coins aren't stored on a single hard drive, they are stored on the ledger, which millions of computers have a copy of. Your individual access to the ledger is basically a password that you can write down on a piece of paper.

>>510781803
Bitcoin isn't a company. You're buying a commodity, not apple.

>>510780058
>The gov can just make it illegal and no business would touch it.
First, ain't happening
Second, they could, and unless every single nation with any sort of economy does the same, then it's going to be a useless move

>>510780058
>>510782171
The largest holder of bitcoin is the United States federal government. You can look it up yourself. They are not going to make it illegal lol. Apparently bitcoin was a safety net hedge against the increasingly worthless dollar. You can bet your ass that everyone has a piece of it.

>>510774541 (OP)
Enjoy the one way trade system of the new world order sucker.

>>510782369
>advertises itself as a solution to international bankers
>developed by NSA
>becomes the mark of the beast

>>510775879
Now compare Bitcoin to $NVDA

>>510775196
>>costs 1.70 per tx
>>need to wait 60 minutes for confirmation
>Kek
You don't get it, It's Digital Gold, its not meant to be spent, its a store of Value, much like like gold bugs take out their coins on occasion to feel its heavy warmth.

>>510775673
Lightning Network is just an Exchange, you don't own your BTC if they are on there.

>>510775915
I hate QR codes with a passion. They're so hideous.

I'm unironically a millionaire because of bitcoin.

I don't think it would have been possible any other way.

>>510783757
I used bitcoin to buy DMT, LSD, Mescaline and Penis Envy mushroom on the clearweb.

Bitcoin didn't make me rich.
I used bitcoin to buy psychedelic drugs on the clearnet.

Very good quality.

>>510783897
You're supposed to use monero for that.

>>510774541 (OP)
it's not a good payment technology, it's good for storing value though. No one government or entity controls it

>>510783757
>>510783757
Same, millionaire, thanks BTC

>>510774541 (OP)
I was stupid and I spent it as a currency as it was intended to be used amd I have nothing to show while people who just held it doing nothing with it until they sold it for fiat made millions.

>>510774541 (OP)
>stock based on nothing
As opposed to the US dollar? Both are fiat. Both are valued based on the faith that they will continue to exist in the future. Except the markets are 130,000x more confident in bitcoin existing in the future.

>>510783972
Based XMR chad
>>510783757
Can you unironically help a hyperinflated bro surrounded by kikes out?

XMR:
863z4PE1ZBzC6BEixibR1YYqZVX3mEXHoB9WuibmhURPAnXFGihSGHKEhPEM7qmFxpXtS2PJisoQ8HGX4MjEYt2h4y5zvLg

BTC:
3JgC5fXR4TLTCoNXDATZSnryaP8hLKSg2o

>>510783757
Jews killed my dog

Send BTC
bc1q8htme4yu6u27eytz63qrzrvngg89mp3wyj7c0k

>>510774541 (OP)
you buy your countries designated kike clown currency with it then exchange for goods and services

you sound like a dumb nigger

>>510774541 (OP)
The use is "numba go up". It's literally a designed number go up machine. It has it's halvings and it's truly deflationary and all that. The whole "it's money of the future" is the scam line to attract the much needed "greater fools" to get the ball rolling.

You don't spend deflationary "currency". You hold it. Inflationary currency is shit precisely because you are meant to spend it. You don't want to hold your deflationary shit fiat, you want to spend that ASAP and get things, and that powers up the economy, boosts GDP and all that.

The way the world economic system is set up is actually pretty smart. It's just not in your direct benefit. The people complaining about it and trying to redpill you about how economics work, are doing it because they want to use you as a cog to make a buck themselves so they can get a leg up in the system. If fiat currency was truly shit, it wouldn't exist. Fiat is the perfect shitcoin you don't feel bad about exchanging it away for some snacks from 7-11. You would trade some BTC for a chocolate bar, or would you convince yourself that HODLing just another day will get your 2 or even 3 chocolate bars tomorrow, and so on.

>>510774541 (OP)
You use it to buy kids and use it like stocks

>>510774541 (OP)
The use of bitcoin was to create an environment where people could get rich separated from the fiat system that's already been calcified by the elite crust. The end goal of crypto is to concentrate power in the hands of the few at the direct expense of everyone else via the financial ideation of EVERYTHING. Anyone who's ever dealt with cryptokike tech, besides scammed dipshits trying to convince people ITT that NFTs are still worth something, should immediately realize the problems of putting personal info like MEDICAL RECORDS on the fucking blockchain. Yes, this is really want Vitalik wanted/wants with his "" infinite machine""

If you're smart, don't buy crypto.

>>510785910
its an immutable database. In a weird way we kinda need something like this to prevent tampering and ultimately to have a record of all information that is extremely difficult to destroy. Imagine an archive.org that is decentralized and immutable. The jews won't be able to go and change history. And delete important information.

Of course on the flip side there is the potential to create something even worse like the mark of the beast. This is how the NWO will eventually take hold. it would be a solution that is needed and that people want.

>>510785088
Now some stret shitters are going to try and Crack your account. Good job retard.

>>510774541 (OP)
you can buy alot of things online with shitcoins.

How are we feeling at current prices?
Still a buy? or she about to breethe? I'm not a nocoiner but wife agreed to increase our holdings by 10% the night before this last moon run. What's /pol/ think? Is this the runaway?

>>510783972
You're supposed to get killed in a mosque.

>>510786378
This.

>>510774541 (OP)
you can use a crypto credit card, such as gemini, and buy anything you want with crypto. the "you can't buy anything" shows that you're a retard and u have never owned any bitcoin and this is a nocoiner cope thread where you, 10 years after the fact, continue to spout muh tulips in hilarious and pathetic fashion.