Thread 511230919

Like just from an actual Marxist/Materialist standpoint what is the explanation for this??
lf "class conflict" trully is the engine of history and all deviding of politics, culture ect are really just a mask for that central material conflict and Fascists DO NOT threaten the material interests of the capitalist class why do capitalists censor fascists for being fascists but dont censor communists for being communists???
Why is fascism treated like a greater threat if it posses no threat to capitalism????

>>511230919 (OP)
>Supports a genocidal regime publicaly
>Do people who support equality ever wonder why arent they repulsive to the average normie
Yeah, nah

>>511230919 (OP)
>Why is fascism treated like a greater threat if it posses no threat to capitalism????
Because supporting genocidal regimes is bad optics you ugly antiwhite fat fuck

>>511230919 (OP)
one of the main tenants of communism is reporting people to the state for wrongthink
posts above me are a streetshitter

>>511231143
>>511231092
>communist regimes are not genocidal
It’s just a stupid thing to suggest even when trolling

>>511230919 (OP)
The petty-bourgeoisie do threaten the material interests of the major-bourgeoisie. Both are still capitalist

>>511231292
Also, the petty-bourgeoisie have more power than the proletariat, so are materially a greater threat to the major-bourgeoisie (duh)

>>511231092
lt isn't a question of the average normie its a question of the capitalist class.
Why do THEY support the communists who wants them dead over the """fascist bootlicker""" if there central concern is their class interest??
>>511231143
And why do why did capitalists create a culture where it is bad optics??
Surely there have been societies throughout history that have accepted mass death, racism and dictatorship.
And if we read Gramchi and Adorno we know that the broader cultural superstructure is created by the capitalist class; so why spend so much time demonizing fascism and so little demonizing communism??
Why chose to make Hitler more vilified then Mao???

Open communists will never be allowed to work in government unless directly elected, and there are plenty of private sector jobs that will fire you for it if it’s on social media. Generally educational institutions are the easiest places but now they are cracking down on anyone who is pro Palestine to comply with Trump and that will include all communists

>>511231292
>the theory cop out
Now apply it to reality.

>>511231292
>>511231431
Why are commissars omnipresent in Marxist states but not part of the theory?

>>511231292
>>511231431
So then Marx was wrong about the natural development of Capitalism then??
Both in Capital and in the Manifesto he states the natural push of te petty bourg down into the proletariat will make them allies of the proletariat; yet modern Marxists swear off any sort of such red brown alliance and call it reactionary.
Was Marx right or are they?

>>511231536
It is a direct reflection of reality. What do you want? An explanation for how fascism is a petty-bourgeois ideology? Would you even bother to read the sources I provide?

>>511231725
No it isn’t lol

>>511231670
>Both in Capital and in the Manifesto he states the natural push of te petty bourg down into the proletariat will make them allies

No. Some will, but most will resent their proletariatization and seek to regain their status.

>>511231250
The problem is fascist rhetoric is inherently exclusionary to minority groups which is conducive to genocide and human rights abuses.
Very few lefties are full-blown tankies.

>>511230919 (OP)
>>511231250
>WTF? Why are people who threaten to mass slaughter based on race treated more poorly than people who want more economic distribution??

>>511231490
Anyone who threates Jewish power yes.
Notice they did fuck all to crack down durring BLM when people were advocating defunding the police and explicit anarcho-communism.

>>511231814
What a bizarre response. You stopped readining anon’s post on the middle of a sentence, then agreed with the rest of his sentence without answering.
>>511231890
Yes the fascists, Italians, were known for their slaughter of all non Italians. Clueless idiot.

Why even stop there? Why not simply say communists are good and smart and handsome and brave and all the good adjectives, while le fascists are all the bad ones? Infant

>>511232088
Because he was wrong about what Marx said. There isn't much to elaborate on

>>511231725
>It is a direct reflection of reality
No. It is more theoretical nonsense used to cope with the fact Marx’s “scientific” predictions panned out like a wet fart.
>What do you want?
I want you to stop viewing everything though the red lenses of your quasi-religious cult when it is painfully obvious the theory does not meet reality. You are not the opposition. You are a useful idiot. >Would you even bother to read the sources I provide?
I’ve read the sources. They are available online for free for all the world to see.

>>511232155
You responded with the same thing. Can you keep up with your own bullshit?

>>511232359
Can you try to understand the words that I am typing instead of having an autistic tantrum?

>>511231890
I know this is bait but the idea of portraying an American conservative “Republican” as a fascist willing to kill for his country is just so fucking funny to me it deserves a (you)

>>511231890
>more economic distribution
very kitsch way of "murder the rich" tankie faggot. your system has rotted from the inside out each time it has been attempted, while fascism has always been violently suppressed for fear it takes root among white people. conservatism will die and you apes will be begging for it to return.

>>511231814
>>511232155
>"The lower strata of the middle class—the small tradespeople, shopkeepers, and retired tradesmen generally, the handicraftsmen and peasants—all these sink gradually into the proletariat, partly because their diminutive capital does not suffice for the scale on which Modern Industry is carried on, and is swamped in the competition with the large capitalists, partly because their specialized skill is rendered worthless by new methods of production. Thus the proletariat is recruited from all classes of the population."

>>511230919 (OP)
Better ask Trump that.
How comes he is in charge of a fascist dictatorship, yet fascists in his dictatorship lose their jobs when they openly promote his ideology.

>>511231092
But communism killed more people and you didn't answer the op's question.

>>511232571
And? Where does this imply that the proletariat should form an alliance with the petty-bourgeoisie?

We both agreed proletariatization is a real process.

>>511231092
Mao absolutely mogs Hilter’s alleged kill count.

Your bait is supposed to start slower and then ramp up.

>>511232429
>immediate insult projection
Okay, whiny bitch. I will take this very slow for you.

Anon said:
>the petty bourgeois will be pushed down towards the proletariat;

You replied:
>most will resent their proletariatization and seek to regain their status.

The second half of anon’s statement was:
>yet modern Marxists swear off any sort of such red brown alliance and call it reactionary.

So yes, you are saying the exact same thing. Anon’s question was how you square the natural reaction - that you clearly recognize - with the theory that states these people should band together against those exploiting them.

You then sperged out about how I am le autist for correctly reading these posts. Are you actually too emotional to follow your own sentences?

Feel free to actually answer the question as well instead of immediately deflecting to insult like a middle school child.

>>511231092
>a genocidal regime
you rang?

>>511231292
>petty-bourgeoisie
He is more proletarian than you, retard

>>511232646
>sink into
Are you seriously incapable of reading? Are these responses being fed through an ai playing an insufferable college freshman?

>>511230919 (OP)
Of course it doesn't. Marxism ceased to have any sort of internal coherence when the German worker chose Hitler to lead him.

>>511232717
There is no where in theory that states the proletariat and petty-bourgeoisie should ban together; in fact it all states the opposite because they are in contradiction of one another.

So no, you just failed to understand.

>>511232576
Fascists dont consider Trump a Fascist.
Marxists however do consider themselves socialists and claim they are the central antagonist of the capitalist class.
>>511232646
And that pretty directly demonstrates Marx said what l said he said.
>>>"ALL these sink gradually into the proletariat"
>>>"Thus the proletariat is recruited from ALL classes of the population."

Wait until you get a load of defense contractor and federal informant Travis Artiche.

>>511232802
>We both agree proletariatization is a real process

Bro are legit stupid? Why are you wasting my time?

>>511232855
>group A will sink into group B
>hurr durr this is not handing together
You are a fucking idiot unable to follow your own semantic arguments. It’s embarrassing

>>511231490
>Open communists will never be allowed to work in government unless directly elected, and there are plenty of private sector jobs that will fire you for it if it’s on social media.

false, omg Why are you all so delusional?

>>511232920
>Bro are legit stupid
IAYC

>>511232897
You clearly misunderstood then what was meant by that. It does not imply an alliance with the petty-bourgeoisie.

>>511231890
>why are people who threaten to take from jews treatead more poorly than people who want to take from Whites
It's a mystery!

>>511232897
>Marxists however do consider themselves socialists and claim they are the central antagonist of the capitalist class.
Well good thing you don't have Marxists in the US then.
The closest you got is the Methodist church.

>>511232944
It's not semantical. The proletariat and petty-bourgeoisie are two distinct classes. What are you not grasping?

>>511232608
>who killed more people argument
this never sat right with me. a function of communism is a violent culling of non-communists, we have seen this in USSR, Maoist China and all of their offshoots in the Middle East and Southeast Asia. This culling never happened in the fascist regimes of Germany and Italy, who, while they used violence to ascend to the top of the power ladder, instead opted for deportation of racial minorities (Italy being extremely lenient in this regard). This policy of remigration could hardly be construed as genocidal, and going to war is not an explicit function of any particular political system, but rather a function of civilization in general. Liberals have also killed millions upon millions of people, but this argument is only levied against radical ideologies since it always comes from a liberal along with his agenda.

>>511232993
Populations sinking into one another is a more pervasive amalgamation than an alliance. You are so focused on the semantics that you’re arguing two is not greater than one.

>>511230919 (OP)
Yeah anon, because communists have never been persecuted in the US.
Fucking retard.

>>511233076
And those distinct classes should sink into one another, according to Marx. Yet the PB affirmatively resists this. You were asked why before you sperged out

>>511233132
>what about the 60s
Everyone accepts your concession. Kindly close the tab

>>511231725

Have you got an article which explains how anti fascists reconcile their hatred for fascism with their dehumanising symbolism for a state sponsored common enemy who is both too weak for basic rights but also so strong that you need to defer to the state in order to be protected from them?

>>511231847
Communists literally chant and rave about killing boers, landlords, white people, billionaires, liberals, anyone really. For a communist to accuse anyone else’s rhetoric as being inherently genocidal is just absurd level self delusion

>>511233164
If major-burgeoisie were left unchecked, total proletariatization of the petty-bourgeoisie could happen, but you're assuming Marx believed the absolutist stance that this total dissolution would occur. That is false. I cannot make this any clearer for you, sorry.

>>511233310
Not exactly on that but I have a ton of articles demonstrating why antifascism is reactionary

>>511231292
Communism and the entire communist sphere of thought has always been fundamentally undermined by a pyramid scheme. Those who encourage or endorse it often do so with the same zeal as a crypto-bro, feeling that by causing disruption in the system that they themselves can benefit and take up positions of authority or control. And the moment when they get power, those who may be serious in their convictions are defamed or otherwise disposed of. Because they are a threat to the new hierarchy.

>>511230919 (OP)
What speech communists have that should make them face repercussions?

>>511233420
I’m not sure why the last sentence was necessary since this is the first post in which you actually answered. This response is what I’ve been trying to get out of you since my first reply. Thank you

>>511233527
That problem isn’t unique to communism though

>>511233574
Well I'm glad I could hold your hand through this very elementary chain of logic to reach this conclusion

>>511233420
>the thing that Marx wrote
>doesn’t mean what you think it does
>even though it is explicit in what it says
You are either horribly pedantic or legitimately stupid.

>>511233674
You've read one paragraph of Marx and somehow think you know more than me. Incredible

>>511233225
kek
>>511233132
lt isn't about whether you were ever prosecuted; its a question of how the capitalist class treats you now and how this fits into your theory of historical class conflict.
Can you show me ANYONE since the year 2000 who has been fired from their job for advocating the abolition of wage labour, the market system, or private property??
l can show you plenty of people fired for advocating the abolishment of Jewish power though.
Even take the lefty professors who have been censored in the last few years; were any of them censored for advocating a socialist economy??
No.
They were fired criticizing israel.

>>511233605
Yes, but communism claims to be a revolutionary solution to the problem that it itself is consumed by. The hypocrisy is the damning bit. It is the definition of a new age cult archetype. "Give up everything for the cult." "So when are you giving up everything, cult leader?" "Goons, beat this heretic to death."

>>511233605
It's literally what happened with free markets advocates lol

>>511233671
No, you just didn’t communicate that answer. In your petty arrogance, you wrongly assumed you communicated well and it’s everyone else who is wrong for not knowing what you meant-to-but-didn’t say.

Are you this insufferable irl? Or does the internet make you feel big?

everyone engaging with the unironic communist and getting lost in their social pseudoscience is wasting their time. if you want to see how communism actually works then look to history, not a religious zealot defending their prophet.

>>511231847
It's not tho. People don't have to die, they can just get on a plane and leave for elsewhere.

>>511233847
I am this insufferable, I have no patience for stupidity or lazy thinking

>>511233731
>assuming I’ve never read marx
>after accusing others of assuming things
Legitimately stupid I see.
>somehow think you know more than me.
Because I can actually read.

>>511232897
Marx was saying that eventually as the material conditions progress, the petty bourgeoisie will continue to find themselves in the class of proletariat, think once upon a time a simple hat maker would make decent wages, a person could own a hat making shop and find themselves within the bourgeoisie, alas as time has passed, hats are made by machines, and the hat makers either sink into the classic of proletariat, or become a petty bourgeoisie.

Trotsky claimed that if enough petty bourgeoisie become frustrated enough, fascism begins to grow. For example, how many professionals and business owners were indicted for Jan 6th shenanigans? Quite a few.

>>511233924
Well people do tend to hate what they dislike about themselves :^)

national socialists is the only european political ideology that are anti-jewish (not just anti-zionist)

that's your answer

>>511233605
It isn't, but its particularly bad when it happens to an ideology whos central premise is liberation from economic hierarchy.

Whats the background on this image? Someone link me

>>511234009
True, but thankfully I'm not some 20-year-old pseud on /pol/ that's insecure about his perceived intelligence

>>511230919 (OP)
>why do capitalists censor fascists for being fascists but dont censor communists for being communists???

Capitalists murder, deport, and imprison communists for mere speech
Capitalists do not fire fascists. Their employees pretty much force them to fire fascists who out themselves and make the population associate the company with fascism. The populace hates fascists. Capitalists do not. Only when inconvenienced by certain fascists.

Only a brain dead zionist bitch like OP would gaslight us into thinking communists, whom the US and proxies are currently murdering and bombing, are not oppressed. You faggots would probably claim AOC is communist just because you are nothing but lying, gaslighting, useless sacks of shit. Right wingers deserve cancer, and I pray you all get it.

>>511233490

Maybe someone should write one considering the current situation is ...

Everyone agrees with this

Everyone agrees with what?

I dont know what you're talking about, stop threatening me or ill call the police.

In the meantime, I'd be happy to read your articles if you would be so kind as to link them.

>>511230919 (OP)
>why is facism considered a threat

Hmmm...can you possibly think of any reason, possibly occuring in the 1940's, why the world might still not be convinced you retards are up to no good?

>>511234267
He's a quick and easy one

https://libcom.org/article/worst-product-fascism-its-antifascism

>>511234007
Yeah l get Trotsky's position but l dont se how that squares with Marx.
Marx believed the downwardly mobile Bourgiosie getting pushed into the proletariat would become a socialist.
Trotksy (and you could argue history) says instead they go fascists.
Those are to different things are they not?

>>511234199
Could have fooled me (and everyone else in the thread)

>>511234250
Why did the US bomb Nazi Gemrnay and Fascist Italy and not the USSR? Why did the US aid the Kurds against Iraqi and Syrian Baathist parties?

>>511234250
What communists are the US and proxies currently murderering and bombing?

>>511231490
Both things you said are untrue.

Consider that anybody who openly brags about being an extremist of any kind is viewed as weird and dangerous and gets excluded from groups. If you can't hide your power level, you're a liability.

>>511234426
Well as a fascist you are easily fooled

>>511234517
I’m not a fascist and never claimed to be. As we previously established, you don’t read well.

>>511234348
Again as l keep having to say over and over in this thread even though l made this clear in the OP:
This.
lsn't.
About.
How.
The.
"""World"""
"""Feels"""
About.
Fascism.
This is about the material interest of the capitialist class and why, if socialists are the bigger threat to them, they treat fascists and anti-semites as far, FAR more dangerous responding to them with far harsher surpression.
ls class conflict the engine of history or is it not?
And if it lS then why are class interests being superceded here by cultural aesthetic preferences???

>>511234348
Liberalism and leftoidism has killed more people than Nazi Gemrnay.

>>511233350
That shit has no pull here because we don't have a history of communist state violence. Some bluehair chanting "eat the rich" has no teeth compared to fascists looking back on America's historical black marks and going "This is good actually, we should do this again."

>>511234381
Marx doesn't say the petty-bourgeoisie will all become socialist. He notes this is a dynamic and fluid "fluctuation":

"In countries where modern civilisation has become fully developed, a new class of petty bourgeois has been formed, fluctuating between proletariat and bourgeoisie"

>>511233895
And if they don't leave?

>>511234250
>"Capitalists murder, deport, and imprison communists for mere speech"
Already, you lost me there. This is exactly like niggers hollering "I DINDU NUFFIN" as they're being arrested. Communists never just talk. Every one is possessed by demons who compel him or her to behave in the most deranged way, which always includes violence and plotting.

>>511234250
>Their employees pretty much force them to fire fascists
So capitalism is subject to the will of the worker?

>>511234250
>Capitalists murder, deport, and imprison communists for mere speech

false

>The populace hates fascists

only degenerates, drug addicts, criminals...

>OP would gaslight us into thinking communists, whom the US and proxies are currently murdering and bombing

where?

Talk about unionizing and see how long it takes for starbucks or amazon to shut your entire workplace down

>>511234381
Some, not all go fascist, and these are the people who side with the capitalists, that's what trotsky argued.
Marx did indeed believe that if enough people were pushed into the proletariat class mass frustration would lead to revolution, and then class warfare, yes. Because eventually the capitalist class will control all means of production.

>>511234681
>we don't have a history of communist state violence.
lmao
>>511234730
And if I don't want to give you my stuff?

>>511234681
Your logic falls apart seeing as those who carried out the “black marks” were not fascists

>>511234681
>That shit has no pull here because we don't have a history of communist state violence
Leftoids are something else. You deserve to live under Lysenkoism, little redcel.

>>511231847
The point is, the point OP was making was that the "full-blown tankie" can say whatever they want and will NEVER be cancelled for it. Cancelling only happens in ONE DIRECTION.

>>511233490
>reactionary
Is facism like this, a reactionary thing ?

>>511234681
Nonsense, lefties literally can’t stop enacting their violent fantasies, it’s the one good thing about them that they actually make good on their threats. It’s right wingers that don’t do shit. Every time you guys get an ounce of power you break out the guilotines, and even when you don’t have any power you’re burning down Wendy’s

>>511234730
I don't understand your question. That's like me countering your claims of genocide by asking you
>"And if they don't die?"
They will leave because they're put onto a plane or boat and shipped away to a distant land, preferably of their real origin. The end.

>>511234864
>fascist, and these are the people who side with the capitalists
Do you niggas not read? Both Fascism and National Socialism are explicitly anti-capitalist.

>>511234940
Also yes. Reactionaries fighting reactionaries, a tale as old as human civilization

>>511230919 (OP)
I'll never understand why communists celebrate someone losing their job. Don't they see workers as exploited? Isn't a job a human right?

>>511234681
>we don't have a history of communist state violence
Tell us you are utterly ignorant of your own history without outright saying you're utterly ignorant of your own history. Holy shit.

>>511231143
Because their leaders died of natural causes and have supporters that lived to protect the brand. Where fascists lost their wars and their supporters killed and imprisoned. Otherwise, they are both advocates of big expansive federal government. Which puts them both on the American far left.

>>511235065
Ok then antifacism is reactionary to facism so what is facism reactionary to ?

>>511235094
>Isn't a job a human right?
Not for whitey.

>>511234849
Are all unions socialist??
lf so then is criticizing a union for being "racist" or "sexist" reactionary???

>>511230919 (OP)
I know fascists aren't good at taking responsibility for their own actions as they were just following their Fuhrer/Generalissimo/El Duce/Trumps orders

>>511234432
The USA and collective West invaded the USSR before WW2 and the Nazis were a thing you fucking low IQ idiot. Then, there was a 50-year cold war in which both sides lost tens of thousands of soldiers in proxy conflicts. It was Wall Street and London that financed Hitler to power firstly and only invaded because Germany attacked France and the UK first. Bad faith retards like you deserve cancer. Better yet, hang yourself.
>>511234493
Palestinian, Lebanese, Syrian, and Yemeni communists who are active, fighting organs of the Axis of Resistance. Communists in Colombia, Cuba, DPRK, Venezuela, India, Phillipines, Kashmir, Iraq, and the Sahel among others are either blockaded or killed by proxies or under active sieges through unconventional warfare
Communists in USA will get denaturalized, deported, and imprisoned. Plenty have been killed or assassinated as well. Ie) Fred Hampton

>>511235041
It's argued that fascism is "capitalism" in decline, or crisis, but it still creates a classed structure that doesn't favor the working class.

>>511235173
Oh my fuck hahahahahahaha hahahaha

>>511230919 (OP)
You’re posting this thread every day now?
Go ask your mommy to make you some tendies and warm milk and go to sleep.

>>511234379
>As such, we also think that the title is both incorrect and unhelpfully outrage-seeking: ultimately, the worst product of fascism was not anti-fascism but, rather, the mechanised industrial death camp and the systemic exterminationist policy it enacted on millions of people. Ignoring this fact in favour of a title seemingly constructed with the express intention of provoking a negative response from the very people it seeks to engage (i.e. potential readers) only takes away from the more substantive, if incomplete, critique contained within the piece.
Always hilarious when the note the publishers tack onto the piece proves the point of the writing. That being said this article begs the question as to how the supposed revolutionaries could be bamboozled this badly into being the foot soldiers of the capitalists. Makes you think.

>>511235094
>>511235182
What's really amazing to me about it is in the American context people's healthcare is usually tied to their job and leftists know this and even bemoan this fact talking often about how someone losing their job can be death sentences.
Despite this (and despite saying they are against the death penalty) they still jerk off to people losing their jobs for wrong think.

>>511230919 (OP)
>Claim you subscribe to an ideology that fucks over people arbitrarily because you don't like them
>get fucked over because people don't like you
>NOOOO THIS CAN'T BE HAPPENING I'M IN CHARGE HERE
why do fascists complain when you apply their own ideology to them?

>>511234517
>Well as a fascist you are easily fooled

It's ironic coming from someone who, convinced that his ideology leads to equality, ends up poor and with kings like Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, the Kim dynasty, Tito, Ceausescu...

How do you explain that your ideology leads to the opposite effects of what it proposes, not only to failure but to the complete opposite?

>>511235094
Because they aren’t really interested in helping the proles. It’s all window dressing to seize control from the current capitalist ruling class.

>>511235411
Yeah I've noticed a lot of liberal revisionist prefaces and post-notes tacked on to radical literature. I mostly ignore them. Sometimes I'm mad enough to send an email

>>511235345
You should be able to answer this

>>511234681
>we don't have a history of communist state violence.
This naivety is why it's hilarious when communists starve to death and kill tens of millions of other communists. Communism was the basis for America's first colony. Capitalism was the basis for America's second colony.

>>511235576
Oh easily, but you could just as easily Google what it means to be "reactionary"

>>511234877
Please tell me more about America's horrific communist massacres against the bourgeoisie.
>>511234878
The point isn't that they were fascists, it's that fascists want to go back to those policies.
>>511234992
>a Wendy's burns down during a riot against state violence (404 communist state violence not found)
>ACK THIS IS LITERALLY THE TRAIL OF TEARS
>>511235020
In other words, human rights abuses. Exactly point.

>>511235339
>It's argued that fascism is "capitalism" in decline, or crisis
I suspect that neither of these terms is defined in any meaningful manner for this to make any sense.
>it still creates a classed structure that doesn't favor the working class
Again, the German working class voted Hitler into power. The assassination attempts against him primarily came from the right wing.

None of this makes any sense. Marxists want racehorses and donkeys to do the exact same labor instead of admiring and emplying them in a complementary for their distinct strengths. Fascism and National Socialism want the latter: class cooperation.

>>511234751
No, they are in competition with other capitalists who can use propaganda/marketing to attack their market share for supporting fascism. Like all the coffee shops booming now with Starcucks getting absolutely fucked by BDS. Some industries are impenetrable to worker organizing such as BDS, because they are way too powerful: Military contractors, state governments, oil companies, heavy industry, etc. The capitalists in those industries are all zionist, their workers may or may not be. But it won't change them because these are the strictly controlled "commanding heights" of our post-capitalist hell hole. Brought to you by low IQ right wing bootlickers like you and your subhuman parents/ancestors who raised you to be a rat

>>511235318
>It was Wall Street and London that financed Hitler to power firstly
Who do you think financed the bolshevik revolution dummy?

>>511235384
Waiting to here a coherent answer that actually explains the contradiction with the Marxist theory of history.
>>511235456
Again as l keep having to say over and over in this thread even though l made this clear in the OP:
This.
lsn't.
About.
How.
Much.
"""People"""
"""Like""
Fascism
This is about the material interest of the capitialist class and why, if socialists are the bigger threat to them, they treat fascists and anti-semites as far, FAR more dangerous responding to them with far harsher surpression.
ls class conflict the engine of history or is it not?
And if it lS then why are class interests being superceded here by cultural aesthetic preferences???

>>511235345
Just FYI you think this makes you look superior and intelligent, but you actually just continue to look like a stupid douchebag living in semanstics and snippets.

>>511234348
Hey retard - the capitalists exist in the """world""" and straight-up fund it.

Consumers agree with the markets those capitalists create via buying the product.

Just because you aren't smart enough to figure out all these interconnected systems - doesn't mean they dont exist.

Retard facists.

>>511231143
>>511231092
eurokike flag
commie globalist lies
figures

>>511235658
>fascists want to go back to [non-fascism]
You aren’t seeing the logical disconnect here?

>>511235658
Human rights are a social construct, not even real. If you can't understand that, then you'll be frustrated and confused about most things.

>>511230919 (OP)
>>511230919 (OP)
Dude is like an proud anarchist calling the police the second after getting punched in the face. This guy and anyone donating to him should an hero.

Absolute fucking retards.

>>511235658
>America has never been communist
>therefore communism has no blood on its hands

>>511230919 (OP)
Because none of the people you claim are communist are communist. You called Camela Harris a communist and she objectivly is not. You call Bernie a communist and he objectivly is not.

>>511235865
This has been addressed by OP at least three times and maybe more

>>511235911
There are plenty of open communists in academia. No shit American politicians aren’t communists, almost all of them are the exact same brand of slightly auth right wing who differ on which social faux pas should be met with government force.

>>511235748
Your opinions mean nothing to me

>>511235637
>easily
>doesn't do it
Why are they like this ?

>>511236075
You tell me why you're like this. Does your mom also wipe your ass for you?

>>511235735
socialists/communists aren't a threat to anyone because 1. they like consuming, perhaps even more than you or me and 2. they're useless and ineffectual because of their own laziness

The communists of the 2020s aren't the communists of the 1920s. In the 1920s it was a real movement, in the 2020s it's little more than a badge worn by Twitter users to be part of an in-group.
The same way people on here pretend to be Catholic, think of it that way.

>>511235911
>OP: "Why is fascism treated like a greater threat if it posses no threat to capitalism????"
>(You): "Because none of the people you claim are communist are communist."
brilliant.

>>511235919
OP is an incoherent tldy about commies as if that has anything to do with anything.

>>511235570
>Yeah I've noticed a lot of liberal revisionist prefaces and post-notes tacked on to radical literature.
I would argue this is due to orthodox Marxism, for lack of a better term, getting bullied out of relevance by the useful idiots who are anti-fascist after the collapse of the Soviet Union. It is essentially dead as a political movement.

>>511230919 (OP)
We teamed up with the stalin to fight ‘ler. I guess one threat was more immediate than the other

>>511235705
>the worker is a mindless moron used as a weapon by capitalists against rival capitalists
Very good realization.
>coffee shops
kek
>subhuman
...uh oh that's beginning to sound a wee bit fascist, innit? Are you sure you shouldn't be calling me a kulak, a counter-revolutionary or an anti-semite instead?

>>511231092
>>Supports a genocidal regime publicaly
Yeah it would be awful if communists did that

>>511236163
I actually agree to an extent. Though orthodox marxism has been making a bit of a comeback believe it or not

>>511236068
They mean at least enough to reply :^)

>>511235719
Can you show me the well documented paper trail, with first-hand documents, that prove the Bolsheviks were financed by the demonic mass-murdering aristocrats in NYC and London? Despite those groups you claim that did being engaged in active hostilities?

Evidence like this:
https://www.autistici.org/poderobrero/articulos/hitler-was-financed-by-the-federal-reserve-and-the-bank-of-england
https://www.globalvillagespace.com/how-nazi-germany-benefitted-americas-corporations/
"By 1941, U.S. investments in Germany totaled hundreds of millions of U.S. dollars: Standard Oil ($120M), GM ($35M), ITT ($30M), Ford ($17.5M)."
https://www.sott.net/article/298259-The-Americans-who-funded-Hitler-Nazis-German-economic-miracle-and-World-War-II
Even fucking IBM:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/mar/29/humanities.highereducation

Fucking idiot. Kill yourself

>>511236263
You're welcome?

>>511236130
It’s a little different as most Catholics in America were baptized and raised that way despite not practicing as adults. You could argue open communists in academia cause the children to consider that “normal” as adults, but it’s not really the same

>>511236150
Try rereading

>>511235661
>I suspect that neither of these terms is defined in any meaningful manner for this to make any sense
Why so? Capitalism is pretty cut and dry, it's the allocation of resources and capital where it's needed, and when applied to free markets it allows for individuals to pursue profits and private ownership.
If anything gets in the way of that, it's no longer Capitalism, and if Capitalism doesn't exist, then the material conditions no longer sway in favor of either proletariat or capitalists, you have an entirely different system.
>Again, the German working class voted Hitler into power. The assassination attempts against him primarily came from the right wing.

None of this makes any sense. Marxists want racehorses and donkeys to do the exact same labor instead of admiring and emplying them in a complementary for their distinct strengths. Fascism and National Socialism want the latter: class cooperation
Hitler wasn't voted in. And fascism doesn't allow for free markets or the working class to even choose their pathes in life, it's an autocracy. And, no marxists don't want complete equity, they want an economic framework that actually works for the working class.

>>511236225
I am not a communist. If you came anywhere near me, I would make you get on your knees and kiss my foot as an apology so I don't kick your gay twink ass, faggot

>>511236124
I asked you a question, you cannot answer and now im being accused.
This is your brain in Communism which self proclaims it to be non-violent.

>>511236553
>anti-capitalist
>anti-fascist
>not a communist
By all means, what niche little irrelevant ism are you in here fighting for then, anon? Anarcho-barista-georgism?

>>511235318
>the capitalists invaded the USSR first before Hitler
No they did not. They backed some White Army forces as proxies but never seriously challenged the USSR. In fact, the west exported food to the USSR before and after the second yourself. Not even going to mention the help during the war. You deserve the starvation you faggots produce for yourselves.
>Palestinian, Lebanese, Syrian, and Yemeni communists who are active, fighting organs of the Axis of Resistance.
These communists make up less than 1% of the people the US bombs. Are you seriously going to tell me Hezbollah and the Houthis are leftoids, even though they openly enforce religious rules you fags couldn't live with?
>Columbia
Drug dealers.
>Cuba, Venezuela
Both regimes are victims of their own ideology. Fidel wasn't even a true communist, he was simply anti-imperalist and Kruschev took advantage of the situation. Franco continued to trade with Cuba. Che died like the dog he was after failing to export his garbage outside of Cuba. Venezuela is what happens when you let a bus driver run a country.
>DPRK
Juche is not real communism.
>the rest
Irrelevant retards who are mostly fighting on ethnic or religious lines.
>Fred Hamtpon
David Lane.

>>511235658
That was more an illustration of the lefts willingness to follow through with violent rhetoric HOWEVER coincidently blm was a state funded intelligence operation in the same vein as other state funded leftist violent campaigns like the Arab spring or any number of Trotskyite color revolutions

>>511236324
>Can you show me the well documented paper trail, with first-hand documents, that prove the Bolsheviks were financed by the demonic mass-murdering aristocrats in NYC and London?

https://ia601604.us.archive.org/14/items/pdfy-jzdqXvsS5ZHaHNVy/Antony%20Sutton%20-%20Wall%20Street%20%26%20The%20Bolshevik%20Revolution.pdf

Don’t get assblasted at me for history not being what you think it is.

>>511235911
Bernie Sanders calls HlMSELF a socialist that means 1 of 3 things.
Option 1.
Bernie Sanders is so fucking stupid,
so fucking retarded,
so FUCKlNG uneducated on politicaly theory,
that he essentially has the same bullshit definition of ""Socialism"" Fox News has.
Option 2:
Bernie knows what the word "Socialist" means but he is LYlNG about being one alienating millions of voters in the process and probably costing him the democratic nomination for president.
Option 3.
Berine knows what the word "Socialist" means and he correctly identifies himself as one and in his heart of hearts would love to se alot more industries then healthcare nationialized.
///
l for one am willing to take the man at his word.

>>511236324
>corporations invested in a growing economy before the country was at war
So what
>give me first hand documents
>also here’s a translated Belarusian blog
Lol

>>511236175
Yeah that's kinda the fucking point dude; how does this fit with the Marxist understanding of history as being centrally based around class conflict???

>>511231092
All these niggers coping but you're obviously correct

>>511236810
She definitely does kek

>>511237369
Simple, that wasn’t real communism :^)

>>511236259
>Though orthodox marxism has been making a bit of a comeback believe it or not
I’ll believe it when I see it given the fact most of the left has been ideologically captured by the elites and they have set up higher education as factories to pump retards out at a culture wrecking pace. I have zero doubt it will cling to existence given Marx is undoubtedly historiographic pillar but the political movement will never be the same as it was in the 20th century.

>>511230919 (OP)
they dont
communism is supported by the same jews as corporationism

>>511232919
>pro fascism for Israel
Worst most retarded take ever. If you actually liked fascism you wouldn't support Israel and jews trying to stop fascism in your own country. I don't fascism and I know thats not you, anon, but wow that guy must be retarded.

>>511237522
Why are you here? I’m genuinely curious. Is it just to argue to sharpen your own understanding, to convince, to educate, or because you reject the same engineered social norms being foisted upon regular people by capitalists?

>>511236514
>it's the allocation of resources and capital where it's needed
According to who?
>If anything gets in the way of that, it's no longer Capitalism
Unless we want to play "that was realm whateverism" for eternity, we have to accept politics as a spectrum.
>Hitler wasn't voted in.
He led the party which gathered sufficient votes to be appointed (like many political systems across the West). Direct democracy isn't required for my point to stand.
>And fascism doesn't allow for free markets
Yes? That was my point here >>511235041
>or the working class to even choose their pathes in life,
It is impossible to guarantee perfect social mobility, even if it were desireable to do so. People aren't blank slates.
>it's an autocracy.
Yes? Most of human political systems have been "autocracies" (ie. monarchies).

Communism is kosher opposition. It allows libshits and fags to believe they are "rebelling" against the system without actually going against it. Notice how jews allow communism to be freely talked about in the discourse, but you'll never see the same thing with National Socialism or fascism. Fundamentally capitalism and communism are the same type jewish materialism that looks at people as mass of economic units to be played around, not as unique individuals. Jews obviously thrive in that environment so communism is very much not something they have a problem with.

> Baruch Lévy, in a letter to Karl Marx.
https://craighutchinson.substack.com/p/the-secret-origins-of-bolshevism

Because fascism equals populism which can lead to communism
(:>>511232852

>>511237682
I don't blame you, unless you're actively involved in niche Marxist online spaces, you wouldn't notice. Some have even renounced "leftism" altogether (myself included) considering it to compromise entirely of the left-wing of capital. Marxism falls outside left-right ideological spectrums in reality

>>511236812
None. I just protect my family and make good money. I am not a low IQ bootlicking pawn like you. Get cancer and die faggot

>>511234502
Communists are extremists and generally advocate violent overthrow of the American government

>>511237767
I'm not a regular, I'm just bored. I don't believe I could educate or "persuade" anyone on the internet

>>511238109
>Some have even renounced "leftism" altogether (myself included) considering it to compromise entirely of the left-wing of capital.
I’ve seen that on occasion when I check in on a buddy at the local lefty bookstore. It’s a grim sight.
>Marxism falls outside left-right ideological spectrums in reality
I wouldn’t go that far but if Marxism is to regain relevance it will need to actually adapt third position ideas which is where it will flirt with “reactionary” ideas and more esoteric concepts. This would defeat the purpose of Marxism though.

>>511230919 (OP)
Fascism is both capital's savior and it's boogeyman, whichever is convenient at the time. It is it's savior when class conflict sharpens in a capitalist society, and elements of the ruling class realize that the only way to save their skins is through a strong state that enforces class-collaboration while throwing some scraps to the workers at the same time through welfare programs; the capitalists therefore disempower the workers through the destruction of their fighting organizations (like revolutionary unions) while simultaneously creating state organized workers programs and "unions" (guilds) to alleviate said working class's suffering in a minimal fashion.

At other times, Fascism is used as a boogeyman by elements of the ruling class in their electoral combat with other elements of that same class. "Fascism" in this case is used as an appeal to the working class for unity with a section of the capitalists against the other capitalists, all in the name of "saving democracy". This obsession with saving democracy is very sly; it serves as a way of tricking the workers into thinking that there is a democracy to save in the first place, as if they are not under the dictatorship of capital already.

In a word, fascism safeguards capitalist rule, through the methods I previously described, during times of economic crisis, and therefore safeguards the profits of the capitalists, though said profits may be diminished (I should note that it is not called fascism these days, but rather social democracy, "socialism", or some other PC catchphrase). Anti fascism, however, is a regular tactic of the capitalists to defame their opponents in elections, all the while tricking the workers into supporting their own slavery. Anti fascism is synonymous with anti-authoritarianism in this instance, but I can assure you that it only serves to tighten the grip of capital's dictatorial rule through the sham that is bourgeois democracy.

>>511237164
>admits in the first paragraph that there is no evidence of direct links, only circumstantial
LMFAO fucking idiot
>>511237290
Not a blog, academic peer reviewed article. Cope bitch

>>511238351
>money is half of my ideology
>everyone who disagrees with me is a bootlicker
Ah, you're a boomer. Got it. Tick tock.

>>511236432
Ok faggot.

>>511230919 (OP)
>Incoherent nonsense about Commies
>>511231444
>Incoherent nonsense about Commies
>>511231670
Incoherent nonsense about Commies
>>511232057
Incoherent nonsense about Commies
>>511232571
Incoherent nonsense about Commies
>>511232897
Incoherent nonsense about how Trump isn't a REAL FASCIST! (Gee where have I seen that argument before?)
>>511233757
Incoherent nonsense about a Commies simultaneously working while also advocating against being paid. IE OP thinks all lefties are commie
>>511234381
MHU MARX!
>>511234655
Ignoring historically facts about fascism

Not only is does this argument disintegrates as soon I condemn communism (something that the right can't seem to do when it comes to fascism), Trump who you must concede is far more fascist then Biden or Obama, is distributing capitalist system FAR more then and commie leftist USA hating pres ever would have. Communism and Fascists are more or less 2 sides of the same coin. I would be laughing just as hard if a talkie was proudly spewing their extreme views and got fired. The current right/maga are the biggest cry-bullies who have completely co opted the lefts "feelings over facts" angle that they made fun of for so long. They don't care about facts, logic or reality.

>>511238427
I was just curious what might draw someone to /pol/ who would typically be on more Marxist websites. I use this board for news and memes

>>511231092
bait used to be believable

>>511238534
>This would defeat the purpose of Marxism though.
Not the spirit behind it. If someone can bridge the horseshoe with something new everyone can get what the want, even kikes who seem to be desperately speedrunning a pogrom for some reason

>>511238351
You just sound like a typical capitalist worker

>>511230919 (OP)
my answer to this basedcuck faggot is a bullet you homosexual bootlicker, he can eat mommy's tendies in hell

>>511238534
Well there you go, you've outlined the critical contradiction that the movement faces today. Most of us believe in holding the Marxist line since revisionism is what destroyed the movement in the 20th century do the dominance of capital.

You are right, the working class movement, especially here in the US, is a total joke and we have nowhere near the numbers we have in 1955. If you ask my why I still try to build communism against what appear to be insurmountable odds, it's because they only appear so now, and nothing, literally no system, lasts forever. Will there be a revolution in my life time as the trotskyists proclaim? Sure as hell doesn't seem like it, but the contradictions of capitalism will cause it to collapse on itself, at least inevitably at some point in time.

>>511238629
>anon can’t read properly
The third paragraph.
>We find there was a link between some New York international bankers and many revolutionaries, including Bolsheviks. These banking gentlemen — who are here identified — had a financial stake in, and were rooting for, the success of the Bolshevik Revolution

Not my fault you’re retarded.

>>511231292
>petty-bourgeoisie
>just some random wagie
???

>>511238691
I used to come here as a fascist

>>511238652
Wrong again, dick swallower
>>511238826
I don't work, I own. Small businessmen are not capitalists. Go join a community organization and stop being a fucking lonely hateful loser

>>511230919 (OP)
>Why is fascism treated like a greater threat if it posses no threat to capitalism????
I dont think this is true
In the fascist regims of the yearly 1920-1940s in Europe, the big capitalists basically were allowed to exist if they danced to the fascist leaders tune
I guess its kinda like oligarchs in Russia
They supported Putin, thinking they would control Russia
But now they just have to agree with everything he says or else you might fall out of a window

>>511239145
>I own my business
>but I’m not a capitalist
You are, you just don’t have as much capital as some others.
>go join a community org
Topkek wut? Why don’t you relax, sperg?

>>511237824
According to how capitalism works? It's basic supply and demand...

The rest lf your post just proves my point that fascism isn't a system that works for the working class, and it dismantles capitalism. That's it. I'm not sure what else you want me to say?

And Hitler or the NSDP never won a majority vote ever, they were appointed to their position of power abd given full power to dismantle any form of democracy. That in my opinion, is abhorrent, and doesn't fit within western liberal democracy.

>>511238997
How much of the problem do you think is racial or otherwise non-class identity-based? Russia obviously has different ethnicities in its borders but realistically the revolution took place among like minded people. The subsequent soviets also tended to be constrained to specific people. In the US, you couldn’t have a workers movement that didn’t fracture due to whether illegals immigrants should be included, or whether it was sufficiently historically equitable, or inclusive to women.

To answer your question in a shorter way, fascism is not treated by liberals like it really is; they do not know the true meaning of fascism, because if they did, many of them would support it. It is rather used as a shallow electoral tactic to defame their opponents, and nothing more. All to fuel the merry-go-round of decadence that is the bourgeois electoral circus in liberal countries.

>>511239145
>I own a business
Do you have employees?

>>511239096
>having financial stake
I have a financial stake in Israel not taking my tax money to murder children. Despite what kikes like you say, that doesn't mean Americans like me have direct links with Hamas. Understand how low IQ cattle like you get duped into dying or losing your hard earned money for the super rich.
>were rooting for
Same idea. I root for the missiles Iran drops on Mossad. Doesn't mean I am a khomeinist or give them fucking money you idiot
Learn what evidence means fag

>>511239471
I don't believe race is a biological reality but is instead a useful construct by the capitalist class to divide and exploit workers. So to answer your question, I believe it has almost nothing to do with class conflict. That said, from a practical standpoint, relating racial injustices to class struggle is a useful means of building the movement.

>>511239588
Kill yourself, kike
>>511239303
Kill yourself, kike

>>511238997
The problem is Engels was the father of feminism (inherented from Charles Fourier). Idpol is something that has been with Marxism since the beginning.

>>511239145
>I own a business and make money half of my worldview
>not a capitalist
kek ok
very edgy

>>511239755
Kek

>>511239822
Both Engels and Marx were race and gender realists. It is the only position from which I deviate from them. That also doesn't mean i embrace intersectionality, to be clear.

>>511239710
Well that’s just silly. Allele concentrations are obvious biological reality. Whether you disagree with the specific cutoff points is one thing, but the implication that genetic differences don’t exist among populations is obviously false.

Can Igbo parents birth a red haired Irish baby? How about a baby that’s genetically Japanese?

I also fail to see how a natural fracture point would help “build the movement.”

>>511238812
>Not the spirit behind it.
Marx does not concern himself with the material. There is no “spirit” behind Marxism which is why it was doomed to fail from the beginning.

>>511238997
>Well there you go, you've outlined the critical contradiction that the movement faces today.
How do you think the gap can be bridged?
>If you ask my why I still try to build communism against what appear to be insurmountable odds, it's because they only appear so now, and nothing, literally no system, lasts forever.
This is what Spengler said in the early 20th century and most marxists wrote him off. He plainly stated Marxism isn’t immune from the tides of history despite the fact it assumes on a fundamental level it is because it is an adaptation of Whig historiography. I suggest you read more of his work.
>Sure as hell doesn't seem like it, but the contradictions of capitalism will cause it to collapse on itself, at least inevitably at some point in time.
It’s not the contradictions that will cause the modern world to collapse. It is the destruction of the underlying culture which allowed for the civilization to flourish that will. The capitalists believe the inevitable can be defeated by sheer will and throwing money and resources at the problem. This trick kinda worked in the mid 20th century and the collapse of the Soviet Union emboldened this mindset. The problem is the capitalists didn’t understand you can only delay, not defeat. Now the cracks in the foundation have compounded and there is no more delay to be had. In my view Marx can see this and can articulate this but his predictions were fundamentally from the same position of the capitalists due to a shared historiography. The notion of progress is cancer. It is what caused Marxism to fail and what is causing the modern world to implode.

>>511239973
Allele concentrations =/= race, and biology is always evolving and changing. What it means to be "white" today is not what it meant to be "white" a century ago.

>>511239451
>According to how capitalism works? It's basic supply and demand...
You said that it went were it was most needed. That's not the same at all as supply and demand. So again, who decides where it is most needed?
>fascism dismantles capitalism
Yes? That was my point.
>And Hitler or the NSDP never won a majority vote ever
More goalpost moving.
>fascism doesn't fit within western liberal democracy
kek no shit moron. How new are you here?
"Western liberal democracy" is just the politically correct way of saying jewish oligarchy.
Did you know that indians have brains two thirds the size of Europeans?

>>511239655
>can’t argue the point
>resorts to non-sequiturs because he is tarded
It is undeniable the Bolsheviks received funding from Wall Street and bankers. You got what you asked for and now you’re trying to waffle out of it because it contradicts your argument. Olof Aschberg was a major financier of the revolution and helped set up the first Soviet Bank. This is an undeniable fact. What you think is irrelevant. Cry about it.

>>511239755
I'll bet anything you're circumcised and worship the torah like a good little goy cattle.

>>511240098
>What it means to be "white" today is not what it meant to be "white" a century ago.
To who?
What it means to be of Nordic stock today, to Nordics, means exactly what it meant to Nordics a century ago. Just because America is a deracinated judeo-negroid melting pot having its racial Overton window shifted by the minute doesn't mean it is the case elsewhere.

>>511240098
>Allele concentrations =/= race
This is simply false. Allele concentration is just a more biologically accurate way to say ethnicity and race. Your point about “white” is exactly what I was getting at by saying you can disagree with the cutoff points of the specific classification, but it doesn’t say anything about genetic reality. Again, it’s why whether you call a Sicilian “white” is totally irrelevant to whether an Congolese man can be called white, which he obviously cannot.

>>511239977
>How do you think the gap can be bridged?
It can't, we can only work with/around the contradiction
>This is what Spengler said in the early 20th century and most marxists wrote him off. He plainly stated Marxism isn’t immune from the tides of history despite the fact it assumes on a fundamental level it is because it is an adaptation of Whig historiography. I suggest you read more of his work.
While I'm not too familiar with his work, I do know that most communists understand communism isn't an end state for human civilization. It is expected, via the processes of historical and dialectical materialism, communism too will have to transform into a new system as it will carry remanents of capitalism, just as capitalism carries remanents of feudalism.
>It is the destruction of the underlying culture which allowed for the civilization to flourish that will
I want to call attention to this because "culture" is an ideological basis, something that is tied to mode of production via the base and superstructure. "Culture" is not the basis of any civilization.

>>511240221
>jewish oligarchy
There it is. Thanks for chatting anon.
Maybe one day when you grow up you can have a real conversation about how the world actually works. Given I guess how you don't even understand basic economics and how you'll just blame the jews for all you problems and all that nonsense.
And your breakdown of quotes is an eye sore, learn to use paragraphs or argue in sentences.

>>511240545
>"culture" is an ideological basis
Only in part. Material constraints (like geography or external threats) as well as behavior are also cultural.

>>511240545
The word is “remnant”

>>511240704
Right, but you see, culture arises from them, not the other way around

>>511240601
>anon goes on /pol/
>assumes people aren't jewpilled
lmao bye pradesh

>>511240787
Okay but it is also not entirely tied to the mode of production or people using similar technology would always have similarly congruent culture, which isn’t true

>>511240942
Of course, the ruling class (i.e. the ownership class) first uses the traditions from pre-history, where modes of production were irrelevant and instead geography/biodiversity were the main drivers of culture. The dominant ideology following the agricultural revolution, however, was always that of the ownership class.

>>511239960
I think the mainstream left royally fucked itself the moment it pursued female sexual liberation in the 60s and 70s. Anybody familiar with evopsych could have saw the tidal wave of dissatisfied males coming. Houellebecq was ahead of his time.

>>511241301
So based on this, no revolution is possible without a significant fracture in the ruling class? A book has been posted here to that effect but I’ve been unable to find it. Something like the populist myth

>>511240545
>is expected, via the processes of historical and dialectical materialism, communism too will have to transform into a new system as it will carry remanents of capitalism, just as capitalism carries remanents of feudalism.
That’s the problem. It isn’t going to transform. It’s going to die off. This is where the notion of progress will bite you in the ass.
>I want to call attention to this because "culture" is an ideological basis, something that is tied to mode of production via the base and superstructure. "Culture" is not the basis of any civilization.
This over focus on the material is also going to bite you in the ass. “Culture” in the broadest sense goes deeper than ways of dressing and food. It goes to ways of thinking and viewing the world. The very idea of a “superstructure” is an end result of a culture which has a rational basis to even think of and articulate such a concept in the context of its civilization. Read Spengler. You’re going to have to flirt with these ideas and not write them off if you want to consider Marxism a third position.

>>511240932
/pol/ isn't one person. And ideology is toxic. You've been intoxicated by an ideology that takes effort to actually believe in. You are a lemming who will never think for yourself.

>>511239977
Maybe on paper but the people who follow it are filled with spirit. You don’t overthrow a nation because you’re feeling really intellectual about a thesis one day

>>511241464
Sort of actually. Ruling class power inevitably wanes over time. At a certain threshold, revolution becomes an opportunity.

>>511230919 (OP)
why would I have an answer to the capitalist system working as intended? capitalism places profit over all morals, this guy said things that made his employer feel they could lose money, he's fired. do you want me to explain why the sun comes up in the morning and my answer to that happening as well?

>why is fascism treated as a greater threat if it poses no threat to capitalism?

it poses a threat to the profitability of capitalist machinery. dont worry, historically fascism and capitalism find a middleground and live happily ever after. there's definitely a reason there isn't a "20 communists vs billionaire" jubilee video.

>>511240545
>"Culture" is not the basis of any civilization.
Mode of survival is exactly Culture.
You gypsies living of someone elses land dont understand how such a place like Finland can even exist where we have to farm all our yearly supply of food in just 1 month and for you it just looks like "an empty space to inhabit more people" without seeing the reality of it. We are currently facing a catastrophy where polygamic mudslims come here and breed 10 children per 1 out fo 5 wifes and this is what Communism also does, it broughts worldwide famine on top of that violence it calls revolutionary instead an overtake. You need to go back where you came from and it's the only truth, even with all the Nordic Infra you are living amongs still doesn't make you survive here and these are the cultural differences that cannot be overwriten just by using an airplane.

>>511241558
>“Culture” in the broadest sense goes deeper than ways of dressing and food. It goes to ways of thinking and viewing the world
Yes this is what I was getting at and why race and ethnicity are important. A little thought experiment: if you swapped Rome-area Italians and Proto-Polynesians three thousand years ago, would their cultures look exactly the same? There would be similarities based on the geographical and neighbor constraints, but they would not produce an exact 1:1 culture to what arose in reality.

People are different. On the individual level it’s not as good a predictor but at the level of the nation, these genetic differences add up.

>>511241558
>That’s the problem. It isn’t going to transform. It’s going to die off.

To me these have the same consequence, I'm not sure I understand the difference.

>This over focus on the material is also going to bite you in the ass. “Culture” in the broadest sense goes deeper than ways of dressing and food. It goes to ways of thinking and viewing the world. The very idea of a “superstructure” is an end result of a culture which has a rational basis to even think of and articulate such a concept in the context of its civilization. Read Spengler. You’re going to have to flirt with these ideas and not write them off if you want to consider Marxism a third position.

I genuinely understand your position, however I still have to respectfully disagree with your rejection of materialism. Perhaps Spengler could give me a better perspective on this, but I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding that scientific socialism, with it's emphasis on rationality and the material, is immune from the influences of the society from which is was born; in fact there are even writings by Marx acknowledging this, and was the main reason he rejected utopian socialism.

>>511241635
>capitalism places profit over all morals, this guy said things that made his employer feel they could lose money
This is begging the question and not necessarily accurate. Hiring and training a new worker costs money even at the lowest levels. You could easily view this as placing morals over profits, just different morals than “freedom of thought/expression.”

>>511230919 (OP)
>>511231204
Hey didn't you censorious scumbags just pull milquetoast shit like The View and Colbert off the air? The fuck are you lunatics saying? Pathetic

>>511242789
No, that didn’t happen. Two clearly Democrat-aligned networks pulled those shows for declining viewership and quality.

>>511241586
>Maybe on paper but the people who follow it are filled with spirit.
Sure. But they are still doomed to fail because they reject the immaterial.

>>511241977
>I'm not sure I understand the difference.
“Transform” implies there will be some remnant of the old society in the new. Civilizations just die off and the culture within them goes with it.
>with your rejection of materialism.
It’s not a rejection. It’s an acknowledgment of the immaterial and an understanding pure materialism is ass.
>scientific socialism, with it's emphasis on rationality and the material, is immune from the influences of the society from which is was born
I don’t consider it very scientific specifically because it is a creature of the enlightenment which makes several assumptions that are simply not scientific.
>rejected utopian socialism.
There is an underlying Utopianism underlying Marxism with its notion of progress from the oppressive past to a more equal future where the workers take control of societies. There is also an underlying universalism to it.

>>511242789
Also the view didn’t get pulled, Joy Reid for let go from it, then her show got pulled from MSNBC

>>511242789
>lose 40 million a year
>get pulled
Shocking.

>>511243012
>>511243208
>>511243671
https://ew.com/white-house-statement-the-view-pulled-off-air-joy-behar-criticism-11777461
Do you think people can't tell you're covering up for your pedo friends?

>>511243790
>entertainment weekly
Trolling outside of /b/ is not allowed

>>511231092
The fact that you think it's genocidal is part of your propaganda. It's not reality. In fact your side is the actually genocidal side. But you ignore that because it's not part of your propaganda.

>>511243790
>joy reid gets pulled
>post article about joy BEHAR when nothing happened to her
TDS has melted another brain.

>>511244779
Well, ackchyually….

All governments can be called genocidal. Communists murdered identifiable groups of people, as did fascists, as have capitalists, as have monarchists, as have republics…

It’s just a bad argument because it applies to everyone

>>511238362
I know, but you need to think more than one step ahead.
>"Communists want to overthrow the government, so they're not allowed to work in government"
Yeah, but all they have to do is hide this fact. And have money, or financial backing. Like, c'mon, man. They want to overthrow the government, and what's the best way to do that? From the inside. If they're told they're not allowed, do you really think such immoral people will say "okay" and give up? No, they'll keep trying. And like jews, jeets, and women, once one gets their foot in the door, they hold the door open for more and more of their buddies, until it's a full-on infestation.

>>511230919 (OP)
Capitalists don’t fear commies because they’re not material threats. They do fear fascists because fascism disrupts accumulation. The system censors based on what hurts profit, not ideology.

>>511239145
You calling anyone else hateful is a level of irony I didn't know was achievable.
Go get yourself some deliverance before it's too late for you.

>>511230919 (OP)
Like just from an actual Marxist/Materialist standpoint what is the explanation for this??

the materialist one ofc lol
Commies get fired if they try to unionize or organize a strike,chuds get fired for words from mass pressure from people ie consumers.

Why is this a thread

>>511243790
Get your facts straight before trying to join the argument.

>>511234681
>we don't have a history of communist state violence

>>511247231
capitalism dosent fear words in fact in monetizes them,it fears when the work is stopped

>>511237369
The thing is, communists and fascists fight differently. I imagine it was understood that the capitalist and communists would wage decades-long propaganda wars against each other, gradually scheming their ways to victory, whereas one of the tenets of facism (at least for the Italians) is movement, acting out as you see fit and all. They must’ve been seen as a loud monkey disturbing a chess match.
Also, Britain was important back then, and the Germans were just across the straight.

>>511234655
I'd like to see someone answer this.

>>511235498
sigh
it isn't achieving the opposite effect. everyone is equal in a feudalistic shithole, apart from the military and political nobility which manage and enforce the system. this is EQUALITY, which is evil.
hierarchies naturally form among human beings, since communism is the absence of hierarchy, a most primitive and brutal hierarchy begins to take shape in its absence, and this is invariably a feudal military structure. HOWEVER, since equality must be enforced, merit and achievement is not rewarded, rather, loyalty to the state and state-enforced mediocrity is what is rewarded, until even your military caste are slavish, weak robots instead of roving conquering chads who piss and shit all over the weak and self-conscious kings of communist states.
>>511247231
>communism is when you unionize
>>511245467
thank you.

>>511247568
they fire fascists for words because they are pressed by the populace,having a fascist on board is generally bad for reputation and lowers profits.
they fire commies only if they disrupt organize and strike.

At the end of the day the problem is that people just dont like this.
American people atleast in serbia you can be as racist as you want to be and you wont lose your job badmouthing the government however or going to protests to block trucks with goods is a different story.

>>511248351
here it is

>>511230919 (OP)
>twitter screen cap thread

>>511230919 (OP)
Reminder that there were leftist terrorist groups widely active in the early 70s and launched dozens of major terrorist bombings across the US, including one on the Capital. Not only were they barely punished, but a few got pardoned I believe and many even got high-profile careers within the system. One even became friends with Barack Obama. Meanwhile Timothy McVeigh bombed a building in the name of White Nationalism and then got executed six years later.

>>511230919 (OP)
This guy was fired back in January btw.
>le cancel culture retard turns out to be a grifter
>$50k
>no refunds
diamond dozen

>>511230919 (OP)
>whoever isnt right-wing is a communist
Thats BS. Two of the best presidents america has ever had (Roosevelt and Clinton) are both center-left. Reagan was an huge prick who paved the way to liberalism/western outsourcing along with Tatcher and is used to this very day as a sort of fairy tale by CEO's to fool the common folk.

>>511230919 (OP)
Speaking of Socialism, how long until this dipshit gets a government job with ICE?

communist here. The rise in fash was to combat the left wing sentiment thats growing thoughout the world. You guys are meant to censor the commies. Now that they got what they wanted theyll throw you out and exclude people like you from the system. see: trump.

>>511238661
why don't you make an actual argument instead of just dismissing people's talking points? Is it because you're Jewish?

>>511231250

Communism are not pro-genocide. its more of an accidental sideeffect

>>511244597
>>511245213
>>511247334
Now that it's established conservatives are brazen liars, did you want to discuss the Epstein files and why you haven't released them?

>>511230919 (OP)
Fascoids are a threat to global capital by imposing restrictions and protectionism just as socialists would.

>>511231204
>one of the main tenants
It's tenets you fucking retard.

>>511232608
You're missing the point, and falling into this false dichotomy.
Right-wing fascism isn't the answer of left-wing fascism.

>>511230919 (OP)
To be honest it's probably because communists don't go on podcasts and say incredibly stupid shit for attention. Communists are idiots but the far right seems to be leagues dumber than them.

>>511230919 (OP)
How is communism not just another form of fascism? If fascism is the colluding of corporate and government forces, than isn’t the overthrowing of said corporate forces by the government to solely control them just the same thing with more steps?

>>511251488
"I'm a communist and support stalin" for example?

>>511251488
>To be honest it's probably because communists don't go on podcasts and say incredibly stupid shit for attention. Communists are idiots but the far right seems to be leagues dumber than them.
Thank you hitler.

>>511230919 (OP)
Hilarious how the far right have convinced themselves that they’re still anti establishment and that they’re the underdogs fighting the evil regime.

>>511230919 (OP)
>Why is fascism treated like a greater threat if it posses no threat to capitalism????
Fascism was the much greater threat to the american empire in the 1940. It had the potential to create a huge eurasian empire.

>>511238661
Why are communists always so unashamedly retarded? Don't you feel bad admitting you're too stupid to read? Communists and reading don't mix I guess.

This dude literally just referred to a short passage from Marx as "incoherent nonsense about communism".

He read the post quoting Marx, saw the pic of Marx himself, hit reply, and typed "incoherent nonsense" while arguing in favor of communism. These people are so fucking stupid it hurts.

>>511252411
Commies are smarter than lolberts. Fascists and liberals can be pretty smart too.

>>511252411
He said he condemns communism.

>>511252411
either stupid or dishonest. He makes no attempt to refute any of the points. Just bitching. Although I do agree that MAGA is a cult and the members are so unbelievably whiny babies

>>511251930
you know what's hilarious? saying NIGGER

>>511230919 (OP)
they fired him because he was a bad look. Communists/socialists aren't nearly as bad of a look as firing them for being one is, since most communists do not call themselves communist while this guy screamed and laughed like a retard while looking for approval around the room, thinking "dude i can't wait for 4chan to hear about this, they're gonna call me fuckin based and redpilled" in his tiny subhuman brain.

>>511251197
very jewish post.

>>511230919 (OP)
I'm impressed people who look that fucked up don't kill themselves, He looks like a fucking goblin

>>511230919 (OP)
I was going to make an annoying long post but realized it was a waste of time when it's simple.
Aidscommies are lying scum who are fully aware they're lying and don't care.

>>511230919 (OP)
>Fascists DO NOT threaten the material interests of the capitalist class why do capitalists censor fascists for being fascists but dont censor communists for being communists???
Fascism is violence. It is completely and wholly inseparable from violence. Violence is its native tongue. It's neither dialectical, spiritual, or arguably even materialist. It is a cult of national identity subsumed under a cult of personality. Violence is its lingua franca and therefore poses a more direct threat not only economically but existentially.

Plus, Marxism is a primarily economic theory, you gormless mongoloid. Fascism has no economic theory. It's a category error, not a gotcha.

>>511257846
>communism is separable from violence
Maybe in theory but this has literally never once happened in practice

>>511257846
All systems of government inevitably involve some form of coercion.That's the whole point of government i.e. getting people to do what you want under implicit or explicit threat of violence.

Also, there is a strong correlation between being Jewish, being a pedophile, and hating fascism.

Both fascism and communism have a long list of human rights abuses. If anything, communism's is even longer since they killed 100 million people and brutally oppressed billions more. And many of the Allied countries like the UK, France, Russia, and America engaged in imperialism. And so the only reason why fascists are punished and communists rarely are is because fascists lost WWII, and because our Jewish and leftoid elites hate fascism because fascism is all about racial purity and perfection and cultural wholesomeness and beauty, while Jews and leftists are all about racial mixing, dysgenics, and moral degeneracy. Simple as.

>>511230919 (OP)
I had to pay a fine of 2000 bucks for saying the Berlin wall was good.