Thread 512210295

>>512210295 (OP)
That's a Greek

>>512210373
greeks inventwed democracy and democracy is american so hes american

>>512210295 (OP)
Are you proud of that Waffle House? Beside shirt makes me awkward but I just keep my emotions bottled up.m

>>512210373
Fr Moses doesnt have a single shred of gayreek and other Europoor DNA.
Just a born and bred purestock American.

Cope and Seethe

>>512210295 (OP)
>>512210818
Salvation is by faith Alone. Orthodox make me cringe so hard because I believe just about everything else they say.

this guy gets memed to fuck on youtube at the moment. i thought the orthofag thing died out in like 2022.

>>512210295 (OP)
Why does the papacy make Americans shit and piss their pants?

>>512211800
>faith alone
How strong is your faith, though, really?

>>512212081
Nowhere near the Faith of Christ, God have mercy on me a sinner

>>512212592
Meant for >>512212239

>>512211800
>Orthodox make me cringe so hard because I believe just about everything else they say.
Which is to say you would be Orthodox, but can't let go of the faulty presuppositions laid out by Luther a mere 500 years ago just because neither of you nor him like the pope.
Neither do we, of course, but he should've just joined Orthodoxy rather than in his pride disregard all prior tradition and coming up with what amounts to a type of Marcionic heresy by discarding the Deuterocanon.
The church fathers already dealt with this back in the 2nd century, and it was condemned. It's the same old demon.

>>512215525
Funny that you mention the 2nd century. I've read almost all the saints up to the 2nd century, and every Saint that died within the 1st and 2nd century. There are very few examples of "works salvation", and an equal amount that could be read as saying it was by Faith Alone.

>>512216103
>There are very few examples of "works salvation"
That's all that's needed, and as you read on you'll find more examples. But it's not that Orthodoxy would deny that there could be exceptions like the wise thief.
Although, even he was said to have done good works specifically for the holy family in apocryphal stories, which is therefore not much of an argument, but so St. Chrysostom and Augustine noted.

>>512210295 (OP)
Why do all these dudes scream closet homo?

yuros, please stop making fun of waffle house

it was a good place once

>>512216900
Here are your examples:
Shepherd of Hermas (definitely works salvation. Also heavily implies that the Holy Ghost is female)
Apostolic Constitutions (which has a completely different version in Ethiopian)
Justin Martyr (who says none of us have a preserved Old Testament and was a Premillennialist)

>>512217118
And I'm saying you should read on.
I think it's both beneficial and intellectually honest for any protestant to read up on the early Church fathers.
The whole point is that the tradition doesn't just pop out of thin air, but crystallizes in the first few centuries of the Church, including the scriptural canon.

>>512217346
I will read on. Have you read them all? You're not even interested in the ones that appear to affirm Faith Alone. I do know that Augustine is the most explicit works salvationist I've found so far, and he had all kinds of errors that contradict the earlier consensus of the Saints.

>>512217519
As I said, Orthodoxy doesn't deny the possibility of faith alone, but the exceptions are not the rule. It's critical to understand the Orthodox conception of sin, not as guilt but as a sickness that is healed through the practices outlined in the tradition.
Nor do we regard saints as completely infallible. Although, insipred by the holy spirit they may be, they're still fallen humans, which is exactly why we do not accept the pope either.

>>512217915
We believe that people like King Saul are a prime example that salvation is by Faith Alone. The typical response to this is "well we don't know" or "that wasn't really Samuel at the witch at Endor". I think our response shows greater faith in the revelation of Scripture.

>>512218202
Again, we do not deny faith alone as a possibility.
We see scripture as a liturgical work. It has its duty in stamping out heresies, but it is also critical to note how the canon of scripture does not come into being outside of the context of the early Church tradition.

>>512218202
It's all the same. It's all works based. Faith based just adds the layer that "if your faith is real, you'll do the work that proves your salvation". No matter what, you can't just "have faith" and then abandon all the principalities of being a Christian because that means your faith is false.

ROFL HOUSE

>>512218590
I agree with you on tradition regarding the Canon. But how far do you take St. Hegesippus' statement that the Church began to be infiltrated as soon as the last Apostle died? That should be a signal to comb over everything with a fine-toothed comb.
>>512218625
The thief on the cross had no works. The souls that were saved during the Harrowing of Hell had no works.
>But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
>Romans 4:5 KJVAAE
https://bible.com/bible/546/rom.4.5.KJVAAE

>>512218950
James 2:14-17
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

>>512218950
>But how far do you take St. Hegesippus' statement that the Church began to be infiltrated as soon as the last Apostle died?
Of course it was, that's the entire history of the early Church, meaning the stamping out of heresies: gnosticism, marcionism, arianism, montanism and the list goes on. The early Church fathers at least had the certainty of living close to the time of the Apostles when fighting them, and had the good sense of coming up with the creed as a kind of shibboleth as a weapon against them.
And I'm saying those same demons are raising up their heads now, like in the case of Luther.

>>512219217
God, in His Wisdom, inspired the Apostle to write this verse into James 2:
>Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
>James 2:25 KJVAAE
https://bible.com/bible/546/jas.2.25.KJVAAE
Now according to your interpretation, Rahab's point of Salvation was the work of telling a lie. According to my understanding, she was saved when her heart "melted":
>And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the Lord your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath.
>Joshua 2:11 KJVAAE
https://bible.com/bible/546/jos.2.11.KJVAAE

>>512219472
And what do you make of Augustine?

>>512210295 (OP)
There is virtually zero orthodoxy here. No one understands the funny russian cross.
And there is definitely zero orthodoxy where waffle houses are. That's deep south, Bubba.

>>512219624
As I said, we do not consider saints as completely infallible. Thus, rejection of the pope.

>>512216974
Waffle House quality has never gone down.

>>512219472
>The good guys win every time, I'm sure of it

>>512219794
I will say this. The reluctance of accepting Faith Alone effectively makes Orthodox Eschatology dispensational. According 2 leaders of dispensational theology named Chafer and Ryrie, the bare minimum to be considered a Dispensationalist is believe that God has 2 distinct groups of people with 2 distinct plants. Now if I sit an Orthodox down and talk Romans 11, they will showcase their dispensational understanding. Because they are not making the connection that Romans 11:9 is about someone who is saved (whether King Saul, Absalom, Adonijah, etc), and therefore the entire chapter is about someone who is saved. Kikes are not saved, so it isn't about them.

>>512220140
I'd say, again, that we don't deny faith alone as a possible exception for some, but I can't say I've an answer to your claim readily available, because I've never heard anyone claim we're dispensationalist in our eschatology.
The only thing that comes to mind that might answer your quandary right away is our conception of the Harrowing of Hell.

>>512221965
I also believe in the Harrowing of Hell. This is what I mean:
>"The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity." - Louis Chafer, Dispensationalist Leader

“This [Chafer’s distinction] is probably the most basic theological test of whether or not a man is a dispensationalist, and it is undoubtedly the most practical and conclusive." - Charles Ryrie, Dispensationalist Leader

The Orthodox interpretation of Romans 11 is God has a plan for the "Jews" (kikes), in which they will convert en masses at a future date. That is a separate plan for a separate people. But I'm saying that the key to Romans 11 is verse 9, which shows that the chapter is about 1 group (Christians), but is in regards to those that are walking in the Spirit and those who are not.

>>512215525
>presuppositions laid out by Luther a mere 500 years ago

Galatians 5:6 ESV
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

Genesis 15:6 ESV
And he believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness.

Romans 4:16 ESV
That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,

John 1:12 ESV
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

>>512222568
Right, I don't know if it is completely applicable, since God would like for everyone to convert. Which is to say the "plan" as you say still hinges on their willful acceptance of Christ, and does not imply universalism. As far as I know.
>>512222825
Do as the memeflag does and begin reading about the early Church and about how Church tradition was born without the sola scriptura presuppositions laid out by Luther 1500 years after the Church was established.

>>512223441
Yes, I'm not saying it's universalism, and I don't think any Orthodox believes the "Jews" as a whole will convert. I'm saying that the object of Romans 11 is typified in Saul and David, or Absalmon and David. Kikes are not a type for either. Kikes are a type for Satan himself—Never Saved, Always Unsaved.

>>512223441
You can't accept OR reject Christ. It is all predestined. You're either elect or non-elect.

>>512223823
Heresy.

>>512223915
Kek. Probably.

>>512223753
Well, to say that kikes couldn't repent and convert seems like a type of calvinism, though.

>>512216906
>closet homo thinks everyone else is a homo
many such cases

>>512210295 (OP)
I dont like waffles.

>>512224329
I didn't mean to imply that. What I'm saying is that Kikes are not the subject of Romans 11. They are NOT "enemies of the Gospel for our sake" (Romans 11:29). Christians who are wrong about the good news give other Christians a purpose and a motive to work are.

>>512223441
>God's word is subordinate to tradition

Memeflag cited the fathers
https://blog.tms.edu/sola-scriptura-and-the-church-fathers

>>512224737
I really don't know if I grasp the argument being made. I've never heard anyone make the claim that we'd be dispensationalist in our eschatology, as I said.
The argument seems to hinge on the implications in the personal interpretation you've made about Romans 11.

>>512225436
And I'm telling you to go read them yourself.
Not some blog, nor any anon on this site.
No picking and choosing.
And consider this: if God's word is not at least in part founded on tradition, then how could we trust the scriptural canon that came to be due to that tradition.
It was not established before the late 3rd century. Much of what was accepted comes from liturgical practice in the form of daily readings.

orthodoxy & trad catholicism is based.
very pagan and based.

>>512210295 (OP)
Thats the same guy in both pics
I watch his channel
Pretty good
Has a few solid motorcycles he tinkers with

>>512225521
Again, Romans 11:9 is the key to this. This contextualizes who Romans 11 is about. King Saul does not represent Kikes. In my case, as an American, King Saul would represent the preachers who provided me access to Christianity as a child but did not walk in the Spirit, and became heretics concerning Israel or other issues. King Saul can't represent the local rabbi, because King Saul was saved and the rabbi is not saved.

>>512212081
Because

>>512227168
Right, are you sure you're not just inserting anachronistic representations and interpretations into the text to try and excuse the kike love present in whatever childhood denomination you're distancing yourself away from?

>>512228254
The only alternative is a Dispensational interpretation that calls "Jews" the elect of God (Romans 11:28). Do you accept the presupposition that Romans 11:9 is about King Saul or Absalom? It is a reference to Psalm 69.

>>512228679
You might be constructing a false dichotomy here.
As far as I know, the Orthodox interpretation of Romans 11 just emphasizes the continuation in the promise made to them in the act of accepting late comers such as Paul back into the fold despite them straying into the perversion that is Judaism.
I did already note how I don't accept many of your presuppositions. Especially of how there'd be some sort of separate universalist plan for Jews.

>>512230320
To clarify, Judaism after their rejection of Christ.

>>512230320
I did not mean to imply it was a univeralist plan. When I said that the Orthodox teaching is that they will convert "en masse", I didn't mean 100% of Talmudists. But that large masses of them would simultaneousky. Jay Dyer believes this, that Apostate Prophet guy really loves this, and Orthodox Priest John Whiteford explains it here at 24:24
https://youtube.com/watch?v=PxoQIPKEtPY

But again, do you accept the presupposition that Romans 11:9 is about King David or Absalom? Or Adonijah? It has to be about someone.

>>512231231
I'm willing to admit that I do not have an answer readily available for you about the presupposition.
I do agree that the general teaching is that masses of jews will convert at some point, but I don't necessarily agree that it implies dispensationalism in our eschatology. And I don't say this just to get away from the question. I'm saying there might be a false dichotomy at play here.
Honestly, Dyer might have an answer if you drop in on one of his call in shows. But I'm willing to say right now that I do not know.

>>512232117
If the plan for "non-Jews" is to get saved right now, but the plan for "Jews" is to get saved at a later date, that is two separate plans for two separate people, which is de facto dispensationalism. There is extreme dispensationalism, but two plans for two peoples gets you in the door. I am actually working on something right now for Jay Dyer. I haven't dropped into one of his shows yet, but I listen to them all.

>>512210295 (OP)
>have mercy on me, a filhy goy who is born wretched and unchosen

>>512232745
Well, again, that's seems like saying all of Christianity is dispensationalist because God would like all peoples to convert and obliges us to make it so. So it might just be a problem with that specific definition of dispensationalism that you brought forward.
And, as far as I know, the teaching of mass kike conversion comes from predictions that saints have made, and again we don't consider them wholly infallible, but I'd say take it up with Dyer.

>>512233315
It is just absurd for me to believe that some Kike born in 2002 A.D., who has been subscribing to the blasphemous teachings of the Talmud all his life, was ever part of the tree that I am grafted onto. They were never part of that tree. Whereas an Orthodox that is heavy on works salvation was almost certainly part of that tree, and will be saved, but is in a way a severed branch.

>>512234161
They're like a branch that fell off on the ground to rot and die in their rejection of Christ, but through repentance and grace even the dead can be resurrected, if they were to be grafted back on.

>>512234525
A branch grows from sustenance provided by the root. It either continues or is cut off. Kikes of the 21st century have NEVER gotten their sustenance from the root. King Saul did.
>yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
>Matthew 13:21 KJVAAE
https://bible.com/bible/546/mat.13.21.KJVAAE

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Revelation 22:16 KJVAAE
https://bible.com/bible/546/rev.22.16.KJVAAE

>>512234963
They've been withered on the ground for 2000 years. That they haven't gotten their sustenance from the root for so long just goes to show what an absolute abomination one becomes in the absence of grace.

>>512224534
Nah.
You faggots are all just big sissies.

>>512235544
The idea that they are the same people of God goes against science, and the idea that the cursed tree will be restored goes against Scripture.
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19331938

>>512235882
I'll grant you that the genetics likely won't correspond with groups other than maybe the mizrahi, but I'd be careful not to fall into a kind of calvinism.

>>512236397
I'm not Calvinist at all. The gist of that article is that billions of people can say "I descend from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob".

>>512210295 (OP)
-e