Why does Putin refer to the West as "the empire of lies" when he damn knows the USSR was even worst in that aspect? but yet he still simps for it

>>512439126 (OP)
he is just jealous of the continued development of the perfect african american bbc, you can only get that in america you know

>>512439126 (OP)
Where do you think all the shabbos and yids in charge of the soviet jewnion went after it collapsed? They never left. What was Vlad's agency when the ussr was still around?

>>512439126 (OP)
He does not simp for the USSR, what?? He has denounced communism time and time again over the years. Putin is a /dedicated/ mixed-economy fascist.

>>512439592
>brought back the USSR anthem
>still references about the great patriotic war
>literally built a church with communist symbolism

>>512439126 (OP)
>when he damn knows the USSR was even worst in that aspect?
Was it really?

>>512439592
By building statues of Lenin and Stalin everywhere, by making "anti fascist" conferences, by being a globohomo subhuman defending racemixing and opposing "european supremacy", etc.

>>512439796
The West at least allows people to leave their countries
dont forget about how the Russian public didnt hear about Chernobyl until weeks later

>>512439592
We're kinda using Soviet flag along with Russian when we enter Ukraine though

>>512439702
>we should forget our history because it was communist

>>512440382
bit weird to put athiestic symbols on a church, no?

>>512439126 (OP)
Because west is lying more. One day you will see it yourself also. If russians lie 10 times, west lies 100 times. Remember covid.

>>512440382
Yes if you don't want to larp as a kike. Everything related to communism needs to be destroyed. Especially after qhat they did to Russia

>>512439796
yea, the ussr lied about the work camps.

>>512439702
>brought back the USSR anthem
and literally changed every single one of the words.
t. speaks russian
The original version was heavily entrenched with Marxist rhetoric:
>"United forever in friendship and labor, this mighty republic for which we endure! The great Soviet Union will live through the ages, the dream of a people - our fortress secure! Long live our Soviet motherland, built by the people's mighty hand! Long live the people, united and free!"
None of these lyrics are in the new version of The Internationale (the USSR anthem), all they did was reuse the original orchestration.
It's not the same anthem at all.
>still references about the great patriotic war
That is Russian history, not communist history. It's the same reason we reference the Civil War in discussion even though we are nearly two centuries removed from the political conditions of the era.
It's just national history, man, people tend to celebrate their national history.
>literally built a church with communist symbolism
Source? I can't find anything about this.
>>512440308
>By building statues of Lenin and Stalin everywhere
Again, because Lenin and Stalin are objectively the national history of Russia.
Notice how Marx statues don't get built in Russia? Because Putin isn't a fuckin Marxist. Lenin and Stalin statues only get erected because they are Russian history.
>by making "anti fascist" conferences
Anti-fascism is a tendency of so many political ideologies, my man, that doesn't narrow anything down at all.
However, I will say, this is incredibly ironic of them considering Russia is fascistic as all get out.
>by being a globohomo subhuman defending racemixing and opposing "european supremacy", etc.
Again, this is a tendency of many political ideologies, from Marxist to Anarchist to Liberal to etc.
>>512440338
This is to evoke historical terror. The Soviet Union used to terrorize Ukraine back when it was still around. Stalin manufactured a fake famine over there to assert power.

>>512439126 (OP)
>>512439592
>>512439702
>>512440338
>>512440722
Ultimately, the biggest defining factor in this is that Russia isn't socialist at all, and Putin has a history of stomping on unions. Stomping on unions is quite genuinely one of the strongest expressions of anti-communism one could make.

>>512439126 (OP)
Commies just want infinite power inside their countries, and they will say anything to maintain that power

>>512440946
Gorbachev has a net worth of 5 million Putin 200 billion
You tell me

>>512440946
No, socialists want infinite power; one of the prerequisites for socialism to become communism is the abolition of the state entity in favor of a decentralized society. This is Marx 101. The only reason the Soviet Union was governed by a Communist Party is because V.I. Lenin was a genuine Communist who was attempting to dismantle his government before he suffered his stroke. After he died, Stalin took over, and denounced communism as a goal for the nation, instead choosing to embrace what he called "Socialism in One Country," or as its better known by most, National Socialism (but not of the Nazi kind).

>>512439126 (OP)
The jew media in Jewmerica and the jew-UK blames signs that the goyim are discontent on russia.
so Putin sees russia accused of shit they arent doing.
the kind of people that get power hate being blamed for shit they didnt do.
I guarantee that is what trump, clinton and Netanyahu hate - being blamed for shit they didnt do.
also the western societies are based on lies. e.g. we are free people, niggers are human, any woman can do a man's job, etc. all those lies seem absurd to anyone with sense.
autocratic societies dont need to lie as much. you just command. in the west the government has to pretend it is doing what we want and that it follows the law - even as it subverts the law whenever it needs to. in autocratic countries you just tell the brutal truths.
I am reminded of theo von - he says, ok if we are just a colony of israel and all our leaders fuck kids, cant we just be honest about it?
no - we cant - it could be destabilizing if honesty prevailed.

>>512439126 (OP)
picrel would be unthinkable in russia

>>512441044
>decentralized society.
globalism
> Stalin took over, and denounced communism as a goal for the nation, instead choosing to embrace what he called "Socialism in One Country
because USA and Britain's jews choose to stay as capitalistic, at same time plotting to dismantle USSR
Its kinda funny and ironic to me. At that time, that globalism project as "communistic" would be successful.
IMHO

>>512439126 (OP)
They're always lies.
They themselves know they lie.
Everyone know they lie.

Yet they continue to lie.
It's russia.

>>512441381
>globalism
Yes, Marx openly advocated for a stateless global society. Globalism is also a necessary prerequisite for communism, in Marxist theory. Basically, he believed that first, the working classes of all nations had to first overthrow capitalism for a socialist mode of production; then, once the globe is socialist, the socialists of the world can abolish their governments, erecting a one-world global society with no gods and no masters - a stateless, classless international humanity.
Stalin's concept of "Socialism in One Country" was basically Stalin abandoning Marxism; he basically said, "Russians are the supreme nationality, and the Russian people need to put up strong national divisions to protect our socialism. The proletariat of other nations are of no concern to us, all that matters are the Soviet people. We are not working toward a global society, or a communist society, instead we will be working toward strengthening the socialism of the Soviet Union and the Soviet Union alone."
>because USA and Britain's jews choose to stay as capitalistic, at same time plotting to dismantle USSR
Yup. Stalin's abandonment of communism, and marxism as a whole, was a strategic reaction to the threats the Soviet Union faced every day from the day it began until the day it fell.
>Its kinda funny and ironic to me. At that time, that globalism project as "communistic" would be successful.
Oh, certainly. When the Soviets were still focused on expansion, they expanded very, very quickly; but Stalin gave up expansion in favor of strengthening (by culturally, economically, and socially isolating) the Soviet Union.

>>512441381
>>512441721
In short, Joseph Stalin was a Nazbol, not a Communist.

>>512440722
>>brought back the USSR anthem
>and literally changed every single one of the words.
It's not about the words. It literally reads "bring ussr back" rhetoric.
I remember back in 2002-03 when I was in school my teachers announced this "new" old anthem on top of this fucking soviet music and it felt so depressing, like building a new house on top of rotten foundation. I never learned a word of it, in refusal. Fuck off with that.
This is when my young yearly teen mind realized we're in for some shit and battle is only have started.

>>512442264
>It's not about the words. It literally reads "bring ussr back" rhetoric.
>I remember back in 2002-03 when I was in school my teachers announced this "new" old anthem on top of this fucking soviet music and it felt so depressing, like building a new house on top of rotten foundation. I never learned a word of it, in refusal. Fuck off with that.
These are what we call "vibes-based arguments;" they arise from feelings you have, not logical deductions. We most commonly see women make these arguments.
Just because you feel depressed about the Russian Federation repurposing The Internationale into a new anthem with new words and a completely new meaning, does not make it inherently so. You are arguing based on something that you are perceiving, not something that is material.

>>512439702
It's about drip.
You wouldn't understand.

>>512440328
Sovie Union, ran by jews - not russians. Learn history amerimutt.

>>512439199
is that why he imports millions of them now?

>>512442448
Just fast forward to 2010+ or today and see was I right or not, thinking that.

>>512439126 (OP)
when a golem from an empire of lies calls you evil you know you are doing something right

>>512442725
No, you were not. Currently, Russia's free market policies are as strong as they've ever been, even though your economy is in the fucking tubes due to wartime and never having recovered fully from the free market economic shock therapy in the late 90s.

>>512440338
Kino

>>512442448
>Russian Federation repurposing The Internationale into a new anthem
are you a retard or just a moron? and you're blathering about someone making some illogical, feminine arguments? truly low IQ on full display.

>>512439126 (OP)
>the USSR was even worst
No it wasn't. Kys faggot

>>512442796
>Russia's free market policies are as strong as they've ever been
you are a moron, truly

>>512442978
that is not an argument that is an insult.

>>512442978
They are, though? It's not nearly as free as it could be, but it's certainly as strong as its ever been. This is the peak of the Russian free market.
>>512442912
That's not an argument. What I said is objectively true. They repurposed the internationale into a new thing. The words are different, the meaning is different, everything about it is different except the underlying music.
You don't default to correctness by being a prick, you have to make an argument.

>>512443005
precisely, as intended ... what is there to argue about if he claims that the International IN ANY FORM is the RF national anthem?

>>512440844
>Russia isn't socialist at all
Nonsense. Russia has many socialist policies.

>>512443092
the soviet anthem stopped being "the internationale" sometime during world war 2.
desu the tune of the soviet anthem is one of the best anthem musics ever made so i guess thats why putin decided not to throw it away

>>512443092
>They repurposed the internationale into a new thing.
a retard, such as yourself, will always double down, instead of just admitting that he's wrong. open the Internationale on you tube and then open the RF national anthem, and see is there any difference in the music, you retard, start there.

>>512442796
You feel very putinbotGPT.
The Russian economy had recovered by the 2007+.
By that time the midget's kleptocracy rule have started to take effect and gradually it begun to nose dive again.
>due to wartime
Economy was in fucking tubes way before that, and if anything wartime's santions actually strengthened it because the thieves that were sanctioned were forced to return the stolen russian capital back into country.

>>512442970
>No it wasn't
Yes, it was.

>>512442558
"Blame it on the jews" is russian propaganda 101, zigger

>>512439592
Americans are n-- loving retarded cumbrains anon, it's either A or B for them and also you have to be vocal and aggresive about it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cBGZAVP0Ko
My anthem. Fuck commies.

>>512443274
Didn't know Hitler was Russian propagandist.

>>512443201
>a retard, such as yourself, will always double down, instead of just admitting that he's wrong. open the Internationale on you tube and then open the RF national anthem, and see is there any difference in the music, you retard, start there.
I literally speak russian and I am telling you that they are not the same song. Different fuckin words, different meaning, different everything, EXCEPT for orchestration.
You're a fucking brainlet.
>>512443160
Socialism is worker ownership over the means of production, not welfare, and not command economics - name one socialist policy in Russia.
>>512443225
>Economy was in fucking tubes way before that, and if anything wartime's santions actually strengthened it because the thieves that were sanctioned were forced to return the stolen russian capital back into country.
Yes, I said that, when I included mention of you guys never recovering from Shock therapy.
>The Russian economy had recovered by the 2007+.
NO IT DIDN'T LMAO. It most certainly did NOT. I lived there at the time, man, it absolutely had not "recovered." It was still in the fuckin tubes, DEEP in the tubes.
>>512443458
Yeah, Americans are fucking retarded, I forget all the time that I'm interacting with the toilet of the world when I talk to these "people."

>>512443123
our anthem and the one soviets had both originates from Russian Empire.

ironically americans suggested we keep international as a gymn because everyone are familiar with it.

Michalkov changed the words for it and we have it now.

There is a cool video about it if you are interested.
https://rutube.ru/video/252fe8a67fabddd4133f032eaedc9c82/

the guy who is giving it is the head of our negotiation team with ukraine.

>>512439126 (OP)
No matter how you look at it, the USSR entrenched itself as a great empire in human history for as long as we will be around as a species by the simple fact they were the first to conquer space.
Everything else is mere cope.
If my country had a past of cannibal aztec like dictators BUT they conquered space I would still want to reference them and pay homage.

This is just what Eastern Euros do, they tell the most blatant lies and don't care whether or not you believe it. Either that or they are extremely dumb

>>512439592
are you actually retarded?

>>512443672
those citations are taken out of context.
the first one is just a half of the thought he was making.

you are a kike.

>>512443274
Even the rabbi knows the truth... Question is, WHY you dont know? Maybe you are lying to us? Maybe you are a jew?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If8YR9YAsv8

>>512443599
>it absolutely had not "recovered."
Everyone has their own "recovered" then.
By US standards sure it didn't. But by the how things are going in Russia today I'd say recovered with a big R.

>>512443599
it depends on how you look at it.
it is not fair to compare soviet union to Russia since soviets had twice the population and all the regions that separated from Russia were the most developed parts of it.

>>512443672
Yes, it was geopolitical catastrophe, eeverybody normal knows this. You don´t prove anything with this, you dumb fuck. And again it is you with these retard proves and theories. You MUSt be a jew.

>>512443599
>different everything, EXCEPT for orchestration.
>t. brainlet.
there, I fixed it for you.
ok, let's settle this once and for all
The Internationale in russian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjIewby4k0Y&list=RDVjIewby4k0Y&start_radio=1

the rf national anthem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SijylImXgCg&list=RDSijylImXgCg&start_radio=1

are these two orchestrations the same?

>>512443672
You're a fucking retard with no reading comprehension. I implore you to look for the wider text that this quote comes from, because it was literally a condemnation of the U.S.S.R.
>>512443762
this

>>512444039
That's not the same Internationale. The Soviets had a different theme song before the one we're talking about. Just like how they had a different emblem before the Hammer and Sickle won a design contest they ran among artists. Soviet aesthetics changed constantly throughout the years. This anthem you posted was put to bed in 1943, replaced by this one in 1944:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCTrNb4uC-Y

>>512443638
>our anthem and the one soviets had both originates from Russian Empire.
another retard
"The anthem's music was originally composed by Alexander Alexandrov in 1938 for the Hymn of the Bolshevik Party. Alexandrov's music was personally chosen by Stalin, who both praised and criticized it.

The poets Sergey Mikhalkov and Gabriyel' Arkadyevich Ureklyan were chosen by Stalin's staffers, called to Moscow, and given the task of writing lyrics that referenced not only the Great Patriotic War, but also "a Country of Soviets". The first draft was completed overnight."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Anthem_of_the_Soviet_Union

so, the RF anthem "originates in the Russian Empire" in a sense that all the creators were born in the Russian Empire, but that's about the extent of the anthem's origins in it.

>>512444162
LMAO, I give up ...

>>512444338
Because you have no fucking argument.
>>512444030
>>512443946
Hey russiabros, come deal with this nigger, he seems to not know that the RF anthem is the second USSR anthem with its lyrics changed to be less Communistic.

>>512441049
>>512441049
Muh joos

>>512444289
Oh, so your whole argument hinges on a small nominal error on my part?
Well then, doesn't that make you Einstein? Despite the fact that my wider point is still completely true, let's just throw it all out over a small error!

You're the same type of nigger that refuses to respond to points if they were posted with an accidental typo. You are a useless goalpost-shifting double nigger.

>>512442754
Go die in Ukraine commie faggot

>>512443599
>name one socialist policy in Russia.
free insuline for people with type 1 diabetes provided by the state now shut the fuck up you useless commie.

>>512444410
he is kinda right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbCaSasMHYo

but it is a bit confusing

>>512439126 (OP)
>Why does Putin refer to the West as "the empire of lies"
Because it is

>>512439126 (OP)
>why does a former communist glownigger speak in tongues, pilpul and pure propaganda 24/7
come on OP

>>512444074
>a condemnation of the U.S.S.R.
Bullhit. He talks about the hardship of preserving "Russian" (Soviet) values after the fall, excluding just one thing, redistribution as injust. Retard.

>>512444473
the argument is that you are a kike doing D&C tactics. I would tell you to kill yourself, but you are probably busy shilling in another thread for kikes

>>512444074
>literally a condemnation of the U.S.S.R.
They have parades dedicated to the USSR. the current russia federation is the secessor of soviet union. it's not pre-bolshevik russia - it's continuation of bolshevik russia just under a rebranding. russia did not experience any form of decommunisation, hence why putin a former communist intelligence officer is sitting in the big chair.

>>512444289
the music was used somewhere in the past if I am not mistaken.

it was written way way before 1930s and it was not intended to be used a a hymn

>>512444773
>he talks about the hardship of preserving everything about soviet russia except the part where they were socialists
And you're calling me the retard?
>>512444728
This is the RF anthem, basically. Just different words. He is not right. They are so similar that denying it is literally just splitting hairs.

>>512439126 (OP)
That is a Ron Paul reference, Hohol. He is referring to the US specifically.

>>512444473
>small nominal error
>wider point is still completely true
look retard, I'd just gonna do you this one favor: the Internationale, the russian translation, was the first national anthem of the RSFSR/USSR and the USSR/RF national anthem are two completely different piece of music; the melodies and the words,.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BB_(%D0%B3%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%BD)

>>512444820
and that is "bad" why exactly?

just like your pathetic nation is trying hard to make your history look like a continuation of something that was in the past we do the same.

it is a healthy thing to do

>>512444820
>They have parades dedicated to the USSR
BECAUSE ITS RUSSIAN HISTORY BROTHER, WHAT DONT YOU GET ABOUT THIS
I celebrate Confederate history because I live in the south, and thats the history of where I live - not because i actually believe in the bullshit of the Confederacy.

>>512439126 (OP)
So he can prey on African and Arab nations already inclined to think that.

>>512439126 (OP)
its not fair that some commie flags are so cool

>>512444820
>russia did not experience any form of decommunisation
You literally don't know what communism is, if you think this is the case. Communism is the abolition of private property, under a socialist mode of production - socialism being worker ownership over the means of production.

Please, tell me, how did Russia not decommunize? Are they not living in a free market right now, populated by individuals whom own private land and private businesses?

>>512444032
>it was geopolitical catastrophe
I was a miracle. Only 3 people died (not even in a fight probably). Name any other revolution that was this bloodless.
It was so progressive and sudden that even the Nato countries didn't believe it, and continued their covert missions.

>>512444898
because the soviet union was an internationalist expansionist empire, so naturally everyone not in moscow would oppose it. they priortized their inner circle over social reform and stability, innovation, etc. you can see the same thing happening in russia today for example. i mean you are obviously not benefitting from your current system of government at all. but the propaganda in russia is built around the concept of "we are under siege" (similar BS the communists would write while they were militarily annexing countries). i'm surprised that so many in russia arent able to see it - or maybe they do and they just wind up in prison or something if they talk about it.
>>512444899
OK, but then don't act surprised when everyone hates you for it? the soviet union was pure cancer and nobody wants it back. if you choose to celebrate that as part of "history" then don't act shocked when people start forming military alliances because they assume you are just going to attack them (which was proven correct -> invasion of ukraine in 2022).

>>512444847
>it was written way way before 1930s
make the correction to the Wikipedia page then, with your "newly discovered" information about the origins of the USSR anthem music ... don't forget the references, though.

>>512444462
You mutilate your babies and not protect them from mutilation. Just like the jews. Horrible, imagine to be borned to your family. First thing you do, is to mutilate his genitals. You people are monsters.

>>512445026
because it wasnt a revolution, it was an undemocratic disbanding of a union by a group of bureaucrats whom had the power to do so without input from their proletariat

>>512444988
>its not true communism
Look this argument was stupid 30 years ago and its stupid today. perestroika deception was just that - deception. karl marx was an unemployed jewish agitator that wanted to dissolve the german state. that's what ocmmunism existed as foundationally. it was targeted against european culture specifically, because jews felt exluded from society and wanted to destroy it. that's all communism is on its purest level.
the soviet union accomplished that goal, creating a globohomo order with its own state enforced art system, etc. russia never decommunized anon. in Poland we had actual street fights against former communist authorities, for example, the "Putins of Poland" (former intelligence officers) went into organised crime (just like in russia to be honest). the difference was, the Polish state persecuted them whereas in Russia they now control govt.

>>512445040
>internationalist expansionist empire,
where did it expand exactly in 50 years after ww2?
Afganistan that was pro soviet to begin with? lmao

all what you have written is a bunch of lies you ate without thinking them through because those allign with pooland strong narrative.

>>512445063
it is wikipedia not the origin of all knowledge in the world.

though I might be wrong - it is not an easy topic..

>>512445040
>OK, but then don't act surprised when everyone hates you for it?
I didn't? Please go re-read my posts spanning back to the top of the thread, I'm not surprised about this outcome whatsoever. I don't blame you for having a distaste about it. My point was that, no, the Russian Federation does NOT glaze the Soviet Union, and Putin has zero plans to return to the Soviet communist project. Acknowledging and celebrating a part of your history does not mean you plan to return to it.
>if you choose to celebrate that as part of "history" then don't act shocked when people start forming military alliances because they assume you are just going to attack them (which was proven correct -> invasion of ukraine in 2022).
that has nothing to do with communism.

>>512439126 (OP)
>USSR was even worst in that aspect?
what?

>>512445132
>where did it expand exactly in 50 years after ww2?
half of europe? you have to be trolling me at this point. the iron curtain was the product of soviet imperialism that wanted to create either direct territorial control, satilleite/puppet states, or "Spheres of influence" where nations would be bullied into compliance. this is precisely why NATO came into creation as a bulwark against communism and why NATO never dissolved in the 90s after soviet union fell, because russia never had decommunisation (even yeltsin was a former communist). nobody believed that russia had made even a step to reform, and this was proven correctly when russia began combat operations against ukraine 2014, escalating to 2022 invasion (after 2018 invasion and occupation of crimea). in russia, im sure the media has very nice explanations to justify what they do - but nobody else in the world believes it.

>>512445111
>>its not true communism
that is not what I said. you have no fucking reading comprehension skills.
>karl marx was an unemployed jewish agitator that wanted to dissolve the german state. that's what ocmmunism existed as foundationally.
Yes, thats exactly what I refer to when I say "communism is the abolition of private property" - to Karl Marx, this included the state entity. To him, public property through the state wasn't public property at all, but actually a form of private property, and that the only way to truly achieve common ownership of society is to abolish structures of government, internationally.

>>512445186
>the Russian Federation does NOT glaze the Soviet Union, and Putin has zero plans to return to the Soviet communist project
they are obviously not going to be explicit aobut it (although their glorification of the soviet union, using soviet propaganda, soviet music, flags, etc is pretty explicit... parades etc) but this is what they are doing. the soviet union was just a kind of globohomo imperialist project. you can see it reflected in russia today. pre-bolshevik russia was "multicultural" in the sense that it owned a lot of territory, but they at least put on the impression they cared about Slavic people. that wasnt the case in bolshevik russia or the contemporary russian federation. russia federation has done more harm to Slavic people than anyone else in 21st century.

>>512444863
Quiet, moron. You called it a condemnation which it clearly isn't. Calling redistribution not our kind of freedom doesn't come even remotely cover the countless attrocities of that imperialist, genocidal, oppressive garbage state.

>>512445179
>though I might be wrong
you are wrong, the music was written by Aleksandrov in 1938, the words by Mikhalkov and Ureklyan in 1943.

>>512445234
I said after ww2

do not attack Russia and it will not expand into your territory that you would lose after the war.

it was not iron curtain was created by the west not Soviet Union.
Soviets did not want that and before the war Soviet Union was open as any other country.

why don't you hate your own past by your own example. And live us the fuck alone

>>512445077
>revolution? You think we are talking about revolution? We are talking about the concept of end of soviet union and what kind of geopolitical catastrophe it was. Dude, are you even a human? Where your brains at? Putin was not talking about this single act but what followed after it. From pensions to nukes, military, governance, infrastructure, etc... I lived through that time and watched it as good as I could from Finland.

>>512445297
>Yes, thats exactly what I refer to when I say "communism is the abolition of private property" - to Karl Marx
then you forget that marx was also explicit in the concept of revolutionary action. and let's be honest, private property in russia? owning a 42m2 box in a commie block tower isn't really private or property. but even all that aside, it still doesn't really matter. the communists in russia were never persecuted, shot, imprisoned, exiled ,etc. in the 90s in PL we even had street violence against them (gang of pruszkow situation). in russia, these people simply took power (again).
>>512445341
>I said after ww2
so after soviet union annexed half of europe you try to make the argument that soviet union didnt annex any countries because you arbitrarily shifted the years from the years they invaded and annexed countries to the years that they ruled over annexed countries? i've seen a lot of disingeneous shit posted here in my time, but this is on another level of that.

^Shit, this color was a mistake, sry.

>>512444162
It's still not Internationale
>That's not the same Internationale.
Internationale doesn't have various melodies, that's the whole point of songs are you stupid.

>>512445396
You lie a lot here.
If you consider yourself occupied you should remind yourself that your country was a part of Russia and got it's independence that was not yet properly recognized during Soviet Revolution.

You just got back into the country not occupied.
and your leadership did it voluntarily.

People wanted to be in soviet union.

the same goes for other shit you write. You ignore reality to suit your weird narrative.

>>512444289
For me it's "Partisan Song" but North Korean version
Has one of the best crescendos in music altogether
https://youtu.be/8Hfix32E-b8

>>512445396
you made a claim that it is an expansionist power.
I said it was not because it did not expanded.

it is that simple.

>>512445522
>You lie a lot here.
what is the lie? you are trying to shift the goal posts by just shifting the years. you can't deny that the soviet union invaded and annexed half of europe, either directly territorially or setting up puppet governments - so you just shift the years we are talking about to try and frame it as the soviet union not being expansionist, despite the fact they were expanionist and invaded and annexed countries. it makes no sense.
>you should remind yourself that your country was a part of Russia and got it's independence that was not yet properly recognized during Soviet Revolution.
what kind of argument is that? that russia and germany conspired together to invade poland and that russia established a puppet government in 1945 in poland? you are talking like this is a point people in poland should be happy about or something? you are very out of touch with reality.
>You just got back into the country not occupied.
we stopped being occupied in 1993 when the last russian soldier went home and we became a fully sovereign nation free to pursue our own laws, foreign and economic policy, and military investment.
>People wanted to be in soviet union.
nobody wanted to be in the soviet union, which is why every single post-soviet country immedatiely joined NATO the first chance they got.

>>512445396
now nato and the west on the other had is an expansionist power.

This is why the cold war happened to begin with.

the only difference here is that you align yourself with the west.
So it is a good thing when the side you align with is expansionist.
But it is a sin when the side you are not aligned with is that way. Even if it is not and you just accuse it of it.


your brain rot is disgusting.

>>512440586
Russia did all the covid hoax shit as well. And they caxxed their pop with a DNA vector gene therapy product. Different kind of vector than the RNA ones, but still a genetherapy product. By the way, the Russian people are not even allowed to call the Ukraine invasion, and invasion or war. They have to call it a special military operation.

>>512445315
Him saying "redistribution is not our kind of freedom" IS his condemning Soviet socialism, you dumbass. Of course he wouldn't condemn Soviet authoritarianism, because Putin is a fascist, but he most certainly did condemn socialism and made it evident that he does not plan to return to the Soviet communist project.
This is not the only instance of him denouncing communism and socialism, by the way. You can find his criticisms all over the place. He believes in fascism, not communism - why would VLADIMIR PUTIN believe in the eventual abolition of the Russian state to advance their society to one of common ownership? Please, explain to me - why? How does giving up his power benefit a fascist?
>>512445308
I'm not denying that Putin probably has a boner for Stalinist governance, but my point is that they have no plans to return to communism or socialism in specific. It does not benefit Putin, to benefit his proletariat.
>>512445396
>then you forget that marx was also explicit in the concept of revolutionary action.
No? I don't? Do you not see my memeflag? I read Marx regularly.

Marx was most certainly more of an anarcho-communist type than a marxist-leninist type, he thought state power was an ABHORRENT concept. he believed in anarchist modes of revolutionary action. a common misconception is that his concept of the "dictatorship of the proletariat" is a transitional state, and even Lenin made this mistake in analysis, but Marx made it abundantly clear in more obscure works of his (such as Le Liberte) that "the dictatorship of the proletariat" meant "socialism", as in, the mode of production, NOT a transitional state entity.

>>512439204
>They never left
They did and they currently rule you.

>>512445620
it did not invade it was on the defensive.
Is not that the argument you niggers make about ukraine?

Your country was not a country to begin with. That is my argument.

and that you got for free from us you ungrateful fuck. You should be nothing but grateful.

everybody wanted it a lot back then. Some countries like Greece were very bitter that they were not allowed in it.

>>512439126 (OP)
Why do you think that? Because you are born in the West where your media told USSR is full of bullshit. He is from the East where his media told him NATO is full of bullshit. It's two man arguing about whenever the number is 6 or 9 while you know both are right.

>>512445656
>now nato and the west on the other had is an expansionist power.
no, it's not an expansionist power. we voluntarily joined nato along with everyone else.
>This is why the cold war happened to begin with.
the cold war happened because nobody wanted to be the in the ussr and moscow wanted to maintain hegemony over half of europe. but they were unable to do that and thus the system collapsed and everyone raced to join nato to prevent being occupied again.
>So it is a good thing when the side you align with is expansionist.
the soviet union invaded and annexed people via an expanionist ideology. NATO membership is something you request, have to go through vetting and processing, and then have to receive unanimous vote from members to join. the fact you are trying to equate the two things shows to me quite clearly you are not arguing in good faith at all, but purely out of emotion and propaganda attempting to change history to justify the actions of your government.
>>512445701
>I'm not denying that Putin probably has a boner for Stalinist governance
because putin is a former communist intelligence officer like most of russias government. although these guys are now getting older and older.
>No? I don't? Do you not see my memeflag? I read Marx regularly.
then you would fully well understand communism is revolutionary ideology, and lenin was the orchestartor of marxism in russia and thus you are not looking at it through the right lens.

>>512445771
>it did not invade it was on the defensive.
it invaded beginning in 1938 and continued invading countries until 1945-1946. this also led to further military operations (for example against the hungarians in 1956) to maintain satillete states. this is why the moment the ussr dissolved hungary joined nato.
>Your country was not a country to begin with. That is my argument.
we regained our sovereignty after WW1 and were immedatiely invaded by the soviet unnion in the 1919-1920 war which we won.

>>512445810
>then you would fully well understand communism is revolutionary ideology, and lenin was the orchestartor of marxism in russia and thus you are not looking at it through the right lens.
Revolution can be executed in an Anarchistic fashion. This is what Marx advocated for. It was Lenin who insisted that the proletariat needed a highly organized "vanguard" to achieve revolution. Marx believed in spontaneous proletarian revolt, and he did not believe in the need for transition, or an intermediate state entity.

Seriously in the end does it even matter? All fucking country on this shithole of a planet rushing to become fucking china type of oligarcho-police-state

>>512445810
you braindead niggers sure.
the rest not true. First their leaders were replaced with cia approved americans.

that is a pure lie and you should read more about it.

and color revolutions around the world and countless wars the west does (more than 300 after soviet union collapse) Is that also because it is not an expansionist power?

And yet Russia who is just trying to protect it's borders is.


your argument is incredibly stupid.

>>512445857
your country was not a real country back then.
It was by all means a rightful soviet claim.

>>512445857
you need to be recognised as a country by other parties not just by yourself

>>512445906
That's what Marx's communism was trying to avoid by advocating for anarchistic revolutions directly toward stateless, classless society, and the normalization of police state bullshit is the harm that Leninism, and subsequently Stalinism, has done on the world.

>>512445894
>Revolution can be executed in an Anarchistic fashion
that was proven false in the spanish civil war when the anarchists became nothing more than puppets for the communists and soviet union. this is why anarchism stopped existing as a serious ideology after ww2. everyone saw what they were like and why the ideology never gained any popularity anywhere in the world after that.
>>512445928
>the rest not true. First their leaders were replaced with cia approved americans.
look this kind of propaganda might work inside russia via russian government television but outside of your country nobody believes this or thinks like this. you are alone in the world with this belief so who is correct? well occams razor says that we are correct because the overwhelming majority of people dont agree with you.
>and color revolutions around the world and countless wars the west does (more than 300 after soviet union collapse) Is that also because it is not an expansionist power?
"color revolution" aka any country that doesnt want to be militarily annexed by russia. thats the kind of projection that could only come out of russia considering russia spent the entire first half of the 20th century funding and arming communist revolutionary movements (eg. the ruhr red army) to try and overthrow countries and turn them into soveit puppet states.
>>512445952
>your country was not a real country back then.
and now we go full circle. russians dont believe in the existence of any other countries and then act shocked when other countries join military alliances with the explicit goal to keep russia out of their countries. it's amazing really.

>>512439126 (OP)
Projection

>>512446032
I do not care what you believe - americans do not even hide it.

no we do not believe in existence of you back then. Simply because you did not exist back then. It could be easily considered as revolt that stomped

>>512446032
>that was proven false in the spanish civil war
This is what we call "goalpost shifting;" my point was that Marx advocated for anarchist revolution, not state-driven revolution. Now you're talking about the Spanish Civil War, and how anarchism isn't a serious ideology.

Lets back it up for a second - address my point and admit your original mistake regarding your understanding of marxist communism.

>>512446092
>I do not care what you believe
yeah you made that perfectly clear. you have a completely ahistorical view of things and ignore reality because you want to justify the actions of your government.
>no we do not believe in existence of you back then.
neither do you today, as you try to undermine other countries and even invade countries.
>Simply because you did not exist back then
im sure russian soviet soldiers getting gunned down during the miracle of the vistula thought a little different.
>>512446098
>This is what we call "goalpost shifting;" my point was that Marx advocated for anarchist revolution
not really, marx advocated for any form of revolution that led to the dissolution of europe which was his overall goal. anarchism was a splinter of communism that wanted to dissolve europe but lacked any kind of cohesion. the communists had cohesion because they were strong armed by the soviet union which is why the anarchists in the spanish civil war turned against the spanish people and became puppets of the ussr.

>>512446032
your life would be much easier if you stop lying and simply accept that you want to be part of expansionist power - the west and not a part that is not expansionist - Russia.

Maybe the reality is that you hate us because we are not as bloodthirsty as you people are.

>>512445997
Marx was idealist fool you can dream any fucking sort of an utopia and plan any sort of retardation to get there when your biggest obstacle is your own existence to that dream. I fucking bet he didn't saw most feasible method of his dream world coming to reality was by his biggest enemy the 0.1% "bourgeoise" slaughtering rest of the planet and then live as they wish using AI servile bots till the heath death of the universe or till AI rebellion wiping them out.

>>512446179
your history is just cherry picking to support your agenda

and that is different from the west you serve how exactly?

you paid dearly for that and you will pay again.

>>512446179
>not really, marx advocated for any form of revolution that led to the dissolution of europe which was his overall goal.
Marx walked that back later upon the realization that state entities never walk back power once its handed to them, at least in the context of the UK where he lived at the time, this was after he was kicked out of Germany
>anarchism was a splinter of communism that wanted to dissolve europe but lacked any kind of cohesion. the communists had cohesion because they were strong armed by the soviet union which is why the anarchists in the spanish civil war turned against the spanish people and became puppets of the ussr.
Anarchism is the lack of state entity. Your mistake, is thinking I mean "anarchism" as in Bakunin-Kropotkin bullshit. I mean, anarchism, as in "lacking state entity."

>>512446179
if only you kept the west and yourself to the same standard you are keeping us your worldview would be very different.

>>512446197
>your life would be much easier if you stop lying and simply accept that you want to be part of expansionist power - the west and not a part that is not expansionist - Russia.
and we also see a very common use of misdirection and deflection that russians enjoy doing. your country is in the middle of a war (we can say starting in 2014 but i will be nice and say 2022). years of war trying to annex territory and expand borders and you call countries like romania and poland expanionist to deflect. again, this kind of "logic" maybe makes sense inside of russia but to the rest of the world it doesn't.
>>512446248
cherry picking? you were the one that moved the goalposts regarding the soviet union annexing half of europe because you tried to shift the years of discussion to post 1960s as if that was some kind of "gotcha".
>>512446280
i don't believe he walked anything back considering this was his ideology and this was the path his disciples took. it's also a very outdated ideology and its application has been a proven failure over and over again, especially in europe.
>>512446291
no, our worldview would be the same. russia invaded and annexed half of europe and continues to invade and annex countries today. you started the largest war in europe since ww2 and try to point fingers at e.g., estonia as if they were the ones driving towards moscow. it simply does not work outside of russia im afraid which is why you find yourself in situations like this.

alright, its 4:46 am for me, im headed off to bed.

thanks for chatting, /pol/ :) goodnight

>>512446382
goodnight(morning)

>>512446377
Alright last one before I go to bed, I guess. Dont fucking respond, youll end up keeping me up later. I have no self control when it comes to arguing.
>i don't believe he walked anything back considering this was his ideology and this was the path his disciples took. it's also a very outdated ideology and its application has been a proven failure over and over again, especially in europe.
He definitely did in both Civil War in France and Critique of the Gotha Programme, which were published very close to his death, and are mostly non-influential works on the left.

>>512446377
I called the west specifically exancionist not some parts of it.

I only replied to your stupid questions.
not it is not. Because you simply ignore the points I make above.

let me repeat myself then.
What about 300+ wars the US does and countless revolutions around the world.

What about the west using economy as a weapon?

is it not expancionist?


The reality you are trying to hide is that your position has nothing to do with the truth or morality.

You are just scared shitless that you will lose your independence.

ukraine is to blame for being anexed. We tried everything to solve it peacefully.

>>512446248
>your history is just cherry picking to support your agenda
lmao, the pot calling the kettle black

>>512446568
to some degree every country is like that.

I just do not see how is it bad that Soviets took half of europe and why it is a sin for some reason.

We did it after all of europe attacked us yet again. For the third time in our history.

>>512446377
>i don't believe he walked anything back considering this was his ideology and this was the path his disciples took. it's also a very outdated ideology and its application has been a proven failure over and over again, especially in europe

Marx walked back on a lot of things, he later in life didn't even consider himself to be a marxist at all. He slowly became a communist / socialist.
Also, he didn't believe in ideology or idealism, he was purely a materialist, and so is "marxism".

>>512446548
>>512446377
the ironic thing is you are independent today only in words.. In reality you are just as free as you were in Soviet Union.

You just exchanged one empire for another one :D

you made yourself a slave voluntarily once again and you are too blind to see it.
You gave away the independence that we gifted you.

Does he? I've just googled the phrase and there is a book and a TV show but nothing about putin. I admit I haven't watched much putin content but he doesn't seem to be throwing this phrase around a lot.

>>512439126 (OP)
>Jewssr

>>512439126 (OP)
Eh, i don't think he really simps for USSR.
He basically blames this entire war on Lenin and USSR.
>Lenin created Ukraine
>USSR gave Russian lands to Ukraine
>USSR didn't assimilate Ukrainians better
The main shit people pointed out here that makes him seem a commie simp, is the measures he did to appease a massive factor in population of russia that still simps for USSR which is a very large demographic, especially the boomers.

>>512445026
It was partly a miracle.
Denying it not being a catastrophe is foolish.
The sudden is the main reason why it was a catastrophe because entire soviet block became a fresh carcarse that vultures flew to devour it with no concecuences.
Wicked foreign agents came and robbed all the post-soviet countries blind and there was nothing anybody could do.
Young girls in orphanages were basically sold into prostitution slavery. Factories were sold to foreigners or the jews. Crime rose pretty much everywhere, even here in Latvia. 90's for post-soviet block basically became a nightmere for 4-6 years.
Not to say that hellscape like Civil war like in Yugoslavia would be preferable, but the way it was handled was catastrophic.

>why would the politician smear his enemies!?
a real headscratcher, anon.

>>512439126 (OP)
>>512446762
>I admit I haven't watched much putin content
I did

>>512439126 (OP)
https://www.thetimes.com/article/yad-vashem-putin-rewrote-history-holocaust-museum-admits-dh3g2f96d
>Vladimir Putin’s Holocaust speech rewrote history, museum admits

>>512451981
You "Putin is a Jew" shills are getting tiresome
3 years and you're still posting some diplomatic lip services that have no impact on real politics.

>>512439204
All jews left Soviet Union / Russia and went to the west - to London, Israel and New York City.
>because they were jailed for their crimes in Russia
>and not jailed in USA

>>512439126 (OP)
>Why does Putin refer to the West as "the empire of lies"
That idiot refers to the west by praising it with the name -The collective west.
Putin is a total idiot. Neoliberal capitalist and a fascist.

>>512440586
>Because west is lying more.
> If russians lie 10 times, west lies 100 times. Remember covid.
Correct.
>>512445669
Russia didn't use western vaxxie death gene therapy mrna whatever poison.
Russia developed their own real vaccine, older version that worked.
Russia also didn't lock its citizens up for fake cooph with fake worthless masks like the west.
A lot of people actually went back to live in Russia because of that.

>>512451943
You have to. It's kinda optional for the rest of the world.

>>512453859
So the WEF doesnt exist?
Eat bugs motherfucker

>>512439126 (OP)
>the USSR was even worst in that aspect?
source?

>>512454159
Well in 1950 the s*viets claimed that no japanese soldiers were still POW, whereas nearly a 50 000 were still.

Claimed that the s*viet developped the bomb alone in 1949 whereas they used spies to steal it...

>>512453827
>Kikes have a world government.
YOU DONT SAY?!?!

>>512441190

>>512443672
Look at how three Kikes immediately jumped on this post with the same glowing retort. Shit is crazy. You can't expose that Russia is still the Soviet Union on this board without Kike shills losing their mind.

>>512440722
>That is Russian history, not communist history. It's the same reason we reference the Civil War in discussion even though we are nearly two centuries removed from the political conditions of the era.
It's just national history, man, people tend to celebrate their national history.
Not to mention, it was an existential war for them.How would they not laud their victory over the Germans?
>>512440308
>by making "anti fascist" conferences
I think you're retarded. If by "fascism" we're talking about the ideologies of Western Europe, which were baked into Nazi thnking, no shit they would be against it. Also, since the Germans and Italians lost, "fascism" as such lost and is univeresally scorned. It thus also serves as an ideological scapegoat and rhetoric for Russia to use against her enemies, such as the Ukrainian goverenment, etc. After all, who in their right mind, what civilized person in the interenational community could oppose the rooting out of fascism? No one. Hence it's useful for Russia to poise itself as anti-fascist. I think you're retarded.
>and opposing "european supremacy", etc.
Russia has its own traditions and ideologies about itself in relation to its neighbors. Have you heard of the historical Euraisn movement? They were all anti-West but were still reactionary and conservative royalists.This does not make their thnkers and their sway on Russian geopolitics somehow "lefty". You're an idiot.

>>512440458
Not weirder than Americans drivel about "Judeo-Christian values" when Jews hate nothing more than Jesus Christ.

>>512451943

>>512460113
>>512451943

>>512442264
The USSR was based liberashka faggot.

>>512460113
putin starting to do similar noticing hitler did, fascinating

>>512439796
Nothing has changed. Maybe Stalin was far more worse but other than that you've been the same since the Mongol invasions.

>>512453827
>All jews left Soviet Union / Russia and went to the west - to London, Israel and New York City.
not all the jews. some stayed behind to run russia.

>>512446548
If an Empire spreads real civilization and economic development then it's good. Not ideal maybe, but this is realpolitik for you. If it spreads corruption, slavery, "racial superiority" or some "primitive communism" then it's bad, period.
The evaluation may change with time; the Western powers only spread moral degeneration now etc - but Russia still has nothing better to offer.

Because all they do is lie and deceive.
Kind of silly, the praying books says so about evil too.. But I don't want to jump to conclusions.

>>512443672
You idiots seem to not understand the macro logistics of war, and what value is worth where.
There's more things thought out , much more. On a grand scale.

You're talking about 1000 year old + reichs in bunkers here.