Thread 512677465

If you eat animals you are most likely an evil person.
What can be done about the largest and most cruel holocaust/genocide that's going on today and been going on for decades?
When can we expect a vegan party to come into government to ban all industrialized animal farming?

If you were in front of a grizzly bear, he would tear you in half and eat you. What’s the difference?

>>512677539
The difference is that grizzly bears do not have moral agency. We should not look up to animals for moral guidance. Animals rape and kill other animals out of pure enjoyment and instinct too, doesn't mean we have to emulate them,.

>>512677465 (OP)
4/10 Ragebait

>>512677626
Very good point.

>>512677626
Niggers do not have moral agency. We should not look up to niggers for moral guidance.

>>512677465 (OP)
Animals do not give a shit about human morality. The natural order has always been this way, and it is all human religious self-satisfaction.

>>512679936
It's not ragebait, I genuinely believe it.
>>512680038
Poor chicks :(
>>512680167
This is incorrect. People of all races have moral agency.
>>512680244
>Animals do not give a shit about human morality
Correct. They do not have the cognitive abilities required to conceptualize the wrongdoing.
>The natural order has always been this way, and it is all human religious self-satisfaction.
The "natural order" is wrong sometimes and humans can take actions and stances to change it.

>>512677465 (OP)
It is no more wrong for a human to eat animals than a bear to eat animals.

Animals are FOOD and SERVANTS

NOTHING MORE

>>512680868
It is more wrong because humans have moral agency and a bear does not.
By eating animals, you are supporting an industry that deliberately harms animals and causes their suffering on a mass scale. That's immoral.

>>512680972
Morality doesn't exist. Nature is amoral.

Elites fabricate morality to control the weak. Elites are predatory and use morality, religion, philosophy, popular culture, etc. as psychological weapons.

Veganism itself originated in traditions created by ancient elite cultists under the guise of non-violence. Even to this day, cult leaders force members to be vegans to keep their followers weak and depended on the elite for better sustenance and protection.

>pull a moral axiom out of thin air
>"you're evil if you do this thing"

Vegans are retarded like that.
At least if someone comes up to me and says "killing people is wrong" or "raping people is wrong", they could at least point to consensus. Like 99% of people agree those things are wrong.
But how many people think eating meat is wrong?
Like 0.1% of the population?
0.01%? 0.001%?
Consensus is the only measure of morality.

You don't even know what evil means, you sheltered child.

>>512681208
>Morality doesn't exist
Ok then I guess I can just bash your head in with a sledgehammer and that would be totally fine then. You're wrong of course.
Your position is inconsistent and retarded.

>>512677465 (OP)
Are there any situations in which consumption of meat is acceptable OP?

>>512681418
Why do you say that?
>>512681362
I think a significant portion of people would agree that it's wrong if you properly explain why. They just don't care. Because they are evil.

>>512681458
Yes of course. For example, when consumption of meat is necessary for one's own survival. However, with the current realities, if you're consuming meat it's most likely not for morally justified reasons at all, and you are most likely doing an evil act.

>>512681450
You can try anything you want. I can still fight you back.

Morality is just an opinion backed by violence.

However, you are genetically weak, and your mind has been poisoned by the psychological weapon known as "morality."

>>512681529

Meat is absolutely necessary for humans to be health, fit, and happy. We have evolved to eat meat for millions of years.

>>512681480
Go into nature and observe. Don't forget to bring rope for when how "evil" everything is hits you.

>>512677465 (OP)
>If you eat animals you are most likely an evil person.
Okay, I'll be evil then.

>>512681743
You think there is no problem with raping children and torturing animals. You are disgusting and nobody agrees with you.
>>512681874
Yeah a lot of things in nature suck. Good thing humans have intelligence and the good sense to improve some of it.
>>512682006
Do you enjoy being evil?

>>512682159
Do you enjoy killing people, humans, in order to push an agenda?

>>512681743
>However, you are genetically weak, and your mind has been poisoned by the psychological weapon known as "morality."
Woah so edgy. Go get your postmates contaminated by an indian you freak.

>>512682224
No. I don't kill people and I think killing people is bad.

>>512681529
Honestly, with how reasonable you are, I'm inclined to agree. Yet, the wellbeing of a human will always trump the wellbeing of any number of animals. Consider the trolley problem: 100 kittens or 1 person of unidentified age or anything else. It's kittens every time, change the number as you wish. what would you choose? You can change the animal

you can stop eating animals if you want to
but you can't stop the animals from eating each other
you can stop eating animals if you want to
but who's gonna stop the animals from eating you?

Why does it seem like meat eaters dont have any good arguments whatsoever?
It's always one of the two
1. People who think morality doesnt exist and raping kids and killing and torturing all white people is totally fine.
2. People who say "nu uh I like meat fuck you" and completely refusing to engage with the arguments.
Really shows you how straightforward the case for veganism is. It's just that people are stubborn in their immorality and evil and refuse to change their ways of thinking.

>>512682315
Yes I choose the kittens to survive everytime.

>>512682315
>Honestly, with how reasonable you are, I'm inclined to agree. Yet, the wellbeing of a human will always trump the wellbeing of any number of animals
I disagree. To me it's obviously a matter of degree. I would prefer a human stubbed his toe than a 100 cats being tortured for 10 years straight. That seems straightfowardly true.
I do prefer human well being to animal well being as well, it's just a matter of degree. Animal well being matters too, since they have the capacity to feel pain and suffer.
>Consider the trolley problem: 100 kittens or 1 person of unidentified age or anything else.
If it's just about painlessly killing them, I'd likely prefer the human too.

>>512682159
> You think there is no problem with raping children and torturing animals.
Humans have been doing just this for practically all human history and prehistory. Absolutely nothing in nature forbids this, and if evolution does not step in, it will never go away. Nature is the ultimate arbiter of truth, justice, and possibility.

> You are disgusting and nobody agrees with you.

The weak will continue to be preyed upon because they refuse to see how things really are.

>>512682239
It's not edgy. Countless records of human history and present day studies on humans at every level of social development have shown that morality is a construct formed and utilized by the elite to control the masses. Studies have even shown the elite are genetically immune to moral arguments and social biases. And other studies show that most humans are genetically predisposed to being manipulated by the elite.

We are a socially hierarchical species. The elites in such a species must be naturally predisposed to being strong manipulators and leaders.

>>512677465 (OP)
Cope.

>>512682539
What do you think I'm coping with? I find meat delicious too, you know.

>>512682512
>Humans have been doing just this for practically all human history and prehistory
You think there is nothing wrong with raping little kids and torturing animals. You are disgusting and nobody agrees with you. You can now remove yourself from the discussion.

>>512677626
>Animals rape and kill other animals out of pure enjoyment

This makes the animal evil

>>512677465 (OP)
>decades
Why only decades?

The majority of animals killed for food would have never experienced life otherwise. A lot of them have good lives and aren't killed brutally like they show in shock videos.

>>512682674
It would make them evil if they had the mental capacity to conceptualize their action and reflect on its morality, like humans do. But they don't, so the animal cannot be judged as evil.

White and Asians don't have the hardware to understand killing innocent animals is wrong. They are mechanical thinkers aka animals = food. If you tell them otherwise they will think you are brainwashed and braindead. It's not something they can deviate from unless they are a fringe outlier.
How to fix? There is no fix. Even when new technology comes up that would allow to get the same taste and nutrients people don't trust it and prefer their niggerish magical+mechanical ways of thinking (eating raw meat = le power boost).

>>512682512
You're a poor loser that has achieved nothing in life. You only exist because men stronger than you built a system where a faggot like you can just exist.

I eat animals. But I want animals to be raised and slaughtered humanely. Keep their suffering minimal.

>>512682746
Hello saar

>>512682703
Mainly because of the unprecedented recent scale of the mass slaughter.

>>512682483
Then I suppose our only difference in this matter is the degree to which human life outweighs animal life.
>I disagree. To me it's obviously a matter of degree. I would prefer a human stubbed his toe than a 100 cats being tortured for 10 years straight. That seems straightfowardly true.
The only reason it's true is because I'd rather stub my toe than cause the torture of these cats. The choice would be physical vs emotional pain for the human making the choice. Raise the stakes a bit for the human and you'll get answers.
>>512682411
The case for veganism is not straightforward if your strawman is the average /pol/tard. There are people with illnesses that require a diet of meat only. Meat is healthy. Some organ transplants are made with animal parts. How much comfort is an animal life worth? You say none justified - I say it's complicated. As long as there is human suffering in the world - I'd rather concentrate on it rather than the suffering of animals who can't speak. I'd stop the torture of an animals if all it required was a snap of my fingers, but in reality you're always trading the wellbeing of animals vs the wellbeing of humans

>>512682857
That data supports what I said.

Why do you believe that a person eating animals is most likely an evil person?

>>512682757
If you don't support factory farming you should not finance it. I.e. stop buying meat from supermarkets and restaurants and other places which source animal products from factory farms.

>>512682661
> Lions eat humans sometimes
> You think there is nothing wrong with lions eating humans

I'm not saying you have to accept such things, just that such things happen and nature does not forbid it. In fact, by all available evidence, nature shows a preference for such behavior.

Human life is not sacred. We all kill, rape, and torture humans on a regular daily basis. Any time you pay taxes, refuse to give money to the poor, buy a produce from a foreign or outsourced labour company, buy a product from the bulk of chemical and energy production company, refuse to give money to a justifiable charity, retain any excess of wealth instead of giving it to the needy. You condemn thousands to death, torture, rape, and misery. Every day.

>>512682754
The elephant destroyed entire forest ecosystems, allowing it to give way to entire grassland ecosystems where virtually all other organisms revolve around the elephant as a keystone species.

Not only are humans the new keystone species of the Earth where all other organisms must serve us or die, but the elites (like the elites in countless other hierarchical species) create a keystone on control and stability in society where 99% of us live within. This isn't to say the present elites could not or should not be overthrown, but they would only be overthrown by other elites to form a new elite regime.

>>512682724
Are you the one man on Earth who can certainly understand how animals feel and understand things? Please enlighten us. You cannot so don't bother trying. We are all gods creatures, but even so, he made many of them carnivores who eat others. Are you arguing that all animals who eat others are simply stupid because they don't have, "The mental capacity", like we do? If you do not believe in Gods plan, then we are simply animals doing what nature must. However if you do believe in Gods plan, then you are foolish to believe that we are the only beings incapable of eating others, since other animals eat one another, and there is no reason why God would not let us sustain ourselves like others. We must be thankful and glad that these animals exist to sustain us in balance. You are a fool.

>>512682411
How about the argument you've probably never heard from a meateater before.
1. Meatbodies die and must be consumed by nature be it a human, a lion or flies and maggots. Otherwise if nothing can eat the meat it will be become a useless resource to nature and the equilibrium will be destroyed.
2. It is horrid for an animal to get old in an unforgiving nature, so a bull in nature who grows old becomes stricken with chronic pain and cannot sustain its beast of burden duties such as grazing and migrating long distances. Therefore if you kill a bull at a reasonable age then the suffering won't befall that animal.
3. Harmonic resource management, if you kill all the lions then the over abundance of herbivores will consume the greens to the point of mass starvation because there is no more greens to eat from. Humans eating herbivores also helps solve this problem.

I personally prefer free range cattle and will always buy those meats. The argument I believe you are tryung to convey is that the removal of the cattle's agency is what makes humans evil such as force feeding them in cages 24/7 then yes I will agree that it's evil.

>>512682724
Animals do have the capacity to reflect on their actions, if they enjoyed killing an animal and they see that animal again then they will do it again for enjoyment. Thus they have reflective thoughts.

>>512682777
The thought that some animal is being tortured and stacked with million others in total darkness so some fat white faggot can have a slice of bacon is awful.
Whites (and Chinkoids) should be reduced by at least 90-95%.

>>512682871
>The only reason it's true is because I'd rather stub my toe than cause the torture of these cats. The choice would be physical vs emotional pain for the human making the choice
I think it's universally better. Like morally better to make a human stub his toe than to torture 100 cats for 10 years straight. Do you disagree?
I also think that if you seriously look into it you will see that most people's current animal product consumption choices are unjustifiable, in a similar way to how it's unjustifiable to torture 100 cats for 10 years straight to prevent a human stubbing his toe.
>There are people with illnesses that require a diet of meat only.
And they can eat meat, I am fine with that.
>Meat is healthy. Some organ transplants are made with animal parts.
That's also fine to a degree.
> How much comfort is an animal life worth? You say none justified - I say it's complicated.
I don't say none is justified. I think some level of comfort can be justified. I'm saying the current average consumption of factory farmed meat and animal products is unjustified.

>>512683858
I hunt, kill, slaughter, and consume animals. I also have no issue with killing humans for many reasons. Every day I hoard my wealthy for my own benefit rather than convert it into food to feed the poor, knowing full well the poor will suffer and die because of my actions.

The fact you are talking to use through an electronic device means you, too, have excess wealth and have chosen your own comfort rather than to prevent human suffering and death.

Why should I forgo any of my happiness for that of non-human animals, or any human that I do not perceive direct value in?

Why are you not forgoing your excess wealth right now? Why not practice what you preach?

>>512684942
You think it's ok to rape children and torture animals. I do not care what you think anymore.

>>512685084
You rape children and torture animals every day. You pay your taxes to militaries and politicians that do such things. You buy products from companies that do such things (such as your electronic device you speak to us from). You could be giving your wealth to a child in need and prevent their rape, but you do not.

Do not think you are in any way above anyone else. Humans may have created the fiction of morality. But nature does not care about our fictions.

>>512677465 (OP)
Am I evil, I am man, yes

>>512685382
Don't you want to change? Does being evil appeal to you?

>>512681362
You can make a number of arguments against the eating of meat, many of them have a moral dimension.
The cruelty aspect is obvious; capitalism being what it is, very little thought is out into the welfare of farmed animals, their lives are often brutal and short. Battery chickens would be a good example of this tendency; crammed into tiny cages, beaks cut and feet deformed, no chance of exercise, no natural light etc... If you treated a pet dog like this people would call you a monster.
The other argument is that animal farming is incredibly wasteful, that it takes a massive amount of resources to create a piece of meat, whereas the same protein and nutritional value could be derived from vegetables that use far less water, land, or chemicals etc... not as overtly moral but if you're remotely eco conscious you'll take this into account also.
Given those two examples, and pointing out that eating meat isn't always all that healthy due to the hormones that are pumped into animals to make them more productive, avoiding meat is a bit of a no brainier I think; there's certainly meat that's more ethically clean and healthy but I'm past the point of looking for it, doubt I could afford it either.

>>512686131
Why would someone who does not share your morality change when you, yourself, clearly will not make those same changes?

Give away your excess wealth to help humanity and your precious animals then maybe you will have sufficient footing to start making arguments for others to change. Otherwise you are just some weirdo hypocrite bloviating hot air like a steaming cow fart out of your mouth.

>>512686131
Trolling is bad mkay?

>>512677465 (OP)
>>512677626
Just follow the talmud and eat kosher.

>>512677465 (OP)
>If you eat animals you are most likely an evil person.
Even if you don't eat animals you are still an evil person ergo deserving of hell

>>512677626
>The difference is that grizzly bears do not have moral agency.
According to whom?
>Animals rape and kill other animals out of pure enjoyment and instinct too,
According to whom?

Your takes on phenomenology are sooo 19th century, anon. Anthropocentrism is, like, totally last season, so you should stop assuming (without any empirical evidence) that the universe revolves around humans and that human minds are soteriologically privileged such that we're endowed with some immeasurable Platonic quality known as "moral agency". If you believe that, then you're essentially operating on blind faith and your only real defense for why others ought to agree with you is "BECAUSE MORALITY IS WHAT I SAY IS RIGHT AND IMMORALITY IS WHAT I SAY IS WRONG".

>>512681450
you could... definitely try? but the only one getting their brains relocated would be you

>>512677465 (OP)
They wouldnt even exist if we didnt eat them, you are advocating for the genocide of animals.

>>512686131
>you are evil
>you should change your ways
>because I said so
>convert now or suffer forever
It feels like I'm listening to a fire-and-brimstone preacher yelling from a soapbox while walking through 17th century London.

>>512677465 (OP)
It's just the natural order of things.
And later I'll make ribs on the barbecue.

>>512691295
Or a preacher from a church in some remote community here in the US

>>512677465 (OP)
I wouldn't eat them if they weren't good for me. I didn't make the rules.

>>512677465 (OP)
thank you, weebshitting faggot, for your worthless opinion noone asked for

>>512677465 (OP)
0/10 no tail.

>>512691295
You will repeat your life again and again until you learn your lesson. And not harming innocent animals is part of that lesson.

>>512677465 (OP)
Never happening.
Humans throughout our history have been the apex predators in whichever environment we live in.

>>512691139
For most of the animals in factory farming, it's better to have never been born, correct.
>>512686908
I'm not trolling.
>>512690980
>According to whom?
According to me. I'm making the claim. I'm arguing with other anons and making a claim to support my other claim.
>Your takes on phenomenology are sooo 19th century, anon
I do not care. Explain how I'm wrong or stfu.
>>512691046
I was making a point silly.
>>512691295
The difference is that I actually have well founded reasons behind my beliefs. And Im not claiming you will suffer forever or anything of the sort.

>>512691563
So? Slavery was seen as natural too a couple centuries ago. Should we bring that back too? What about rape and incest?
Just because something is natural doesn't mean it should be accepted. You should have learned that in your anti homosexuality arguments.

>>512691691
They might be good for you but that's orthogonal to the reason you shouldn't eat them. The reason is moral - your choices directly contribute to suffering and pain of animals.
>>512692753
Not an argument.

>>512683654
Then who's high trust society are you going to leech off, saar?
Reduce India and China by 90-95% and that's a good start.

>>512695221
Whites aren't only the highest meat consumers , they also are the highest consumers of other useless shit in general.
Just reducing the White population (or exterminating them completely) would basically reset the planet.
Chinese and other Asians are just mimicking Whites in this behaviour without a second thought.

Only Indians have a soul and are suited to rule the planet in a peaceful way.

>>512695491
You can't even fix your country, street shitter. As evidenced with you posting from Switzerland.
You and China are the largest producers of shit and waste that flows freely in the entire world, followed by Africa as a whole.

>>512694025
it's a really retarded one that all of you basedboys constantly do

>UHHHHHH, SO U SAY DAT DERS NO RULES!?!?!? AHAHA, AM GONNA KILL YOU!!!???

it's not an own + you're repeating our own points because yes that's what we're saying + you'd get bodied by an average woman because you're a scrawny faggot

>>512694086
we absolutely should bring slavery back

>>512694138
how is that not an argument

>>512677465 (OP)
The Bible says to kill and eat. Sorry retard

do not talk to gay people

>>512696898
The bible is wrong.