So how does the tariff work? We have to pay more?????

>>512789699 (OP)
yes the costs get passed to us
we will buy less
so the suppliers and middlemen (usually other americans) also get hit
no one wants tariffs

>>512789848

So why is everyone here cheering for tariffs? They got more money or something?

>>512789699 (OP)
The item is now $130 plus taxes.

i plops in var toodau

>>512789699 (OP)
Everyone in the supply chain pays a portion of the tariff at the end of the day. The total cost increase won’t be significant.

>>512789699 (OP)
A sixth grader could tell you how tariffs work.
How embarrassing

Nope, that's not how it works. Turns out the middlemen are eating the cost themselves. Look take Labubu, a typical imported item representative of the things we don't make here. They can't just double the price on it because only 1/4th as many people would buy it. And it's almost all pure profit anyway. So they will eat the tariffs and crank out Labubu and still make almost pure profit.

The idea is to get companies to make their goods here because we're going to have WWIII and we can't be caught with our pants down and having China say "you're cut off" whenever THEY choose. We're taking the initiative here. It's perfectly easy to understand and White people are all for it.

>>512789699 (OP)
So stop buying Chinese garbage? It’s not like you have to be a rocket scientist to know you’re buying their trash, it’s unmistakable. Liberals want to go green but still want infinity Chinese imports being shipped across the pacific causing more damage to the environment than every car in our entire country.

It depends

The company has to be this additional import fee to the government

How does it recuperate these costs? The same way they would any price increase, through a variety of methods and which ones and how much depend on the company. The idea that this is an either/or thing as if companies are required by law to handle tariff fees a certain way is the greatest psyop.

Why don't you buy american? Fucking traitor

>>512789699 (OP)
Monday is leftist propaganda day on pol.

>>512789699 (OP)
>turbogay
>bluesky
kys

>>512789699 (OP)
>trump relabels a sales tax as a "tariff" and promises that the other country will pay for it
>the trumptards eat it all up, again
heh.

>>512789699 (OP)

Exporters pay the Tarrifs in the form of lost revenue

>>512790069
Yet boomers think the effective function is any different than VAT and imports they keep praising

>>512789699 (OP)
Buy local then, you think the Chinese buy American products?

>>512790101
They produce almost everything. And i mean it everything.
In one way or the other.

>>512790278
Retard

>>512790424
They buy plenty of american products, it's mostly food they process further

>>512789960
Because Trump is the one doing it so they blatantly support it without doing a little research. Sheep.

>>512790466
In terms of manufacturing capacity because of cheap labor, not resource availability other than limited things, much like Russia historically

>>512790195
They're (((globalists.)))

>>512789699 (OP)
if there's an alternate product with less of a tariff or no tariff, the seller with the tariff has to eat the tariff cost, or lose market share.

>>512790578
Prices of everything I buy regularly have stayed stable. Beef, potatoes, cheese. Oh wait, that's all made in my backyard

>>512790325
>Yet boomers think the effective function is any different than VAT
it is
foreign manufacturers lower their prices to counter the tariff increases
effectively making the tariff come out of foreign profit margins
>https://finance.yahoo.com/news/walmart-wont-back-down-demands-142200780.html?guccounter=1

>>512789699 (OP)

>>512789960
I can't afford to buy anything anyway so it doesn't affect me.

>>512790101
>buy american brand
>made in china parts

>>512790722
The same end action occurs with VAT applied to imports.

>>512789699 (OP)
They don't work like these retards say they work. If an item costs you $100 here, it crossed the border worth $10 a most. You don't pay the tariff on the asking price here.

> But muh temu

You were stupid enough to pay the chinks $50 for something they get $10 from an importer.

>>512790817
my bad, i misunderstood

>>512790838
>anon whom barely grasps the english language attempts to give a lesson on tariffs
kek

>>512790424
Ah yes, the American-made... uh... uhhhh?...
......
............
uhhhhhhh??.........
......
uhhhhh.......
uhhhhhhhh.............

>>512790424
China has had 20% to 55% tariffs on all imports since WWII. They also require 51% chinese ownership of all companies within China and to operate a factory there corporations must relinquish all intellectual property.

It's worked out great for them.

Tariffs are only bad if americans do it.

>>512789699 (OP)
Ignore the space gay, buy domestic equivalents to tariffed products and everybody wins.

>>512789699 (OP)
I love chinese pendleton from costco. Good ole american costco and the membership required to buy chinese pendleton. Its a privilege to buy chinese pendleton. Nigger cattle.

Historians will call it this economy the trump slump

Quit buying cheap chink fucking garbage!
We don't need their fucking plastic polluting waste. It's junk.
We used to make shit in this country. Build shit.

>>512791538
Is that why I've been able to live off investing since November without working? The trump slump?

>>512790466
Only since like 20 years ago. Before then you could buy practically everything American here and the world was a much better place. Anyone who thinks we can’t get back to that is a fucking loser.

>...
>>512789900

>>512789960
Because it lessens competition for domestic producers, and makes it easier for American businesses to grow

>>512789699 (OP)
I mean, he's half right. The supplier would take the hit and reduce the cost by 30% to offset the tariff fee, so the product would still be $100 on the shelf. This is because the profit margins are very high already, and the manufacturer needs access to the US market. If stuff becomes too expensive, then people will stop buying, or, if American alternatives exist, buy that instead.

>>512789848
>no one wants tariffs
globohomo corpos taking advantage desperately want no tariffs so they can keep fucking over the country harder
all normies arguing about this are retards
when you have a rotten tooth, you pull the fucker, you dont let yourself get sepsis because pulling a tooth will hurt

every single product is price elastic to some degree. algorithms determine sales price since it's kinda difficult for individuals to run the math manually for every widget

>>512791988
tariffs also help rein in china's bullshit shipping rates. that fucking country is still considered developing, and all shipping is subsidized by first worlders

>>512790817
The incentive is higher for different groups on tariffs. The VAT is applied at POS, the tariff is applied at port.

VAT is also on all products, so their competition is hit equally. With tariffs their American competition suffers nothing.

>>512791784

> Riddle me this

If a phone costs $1000 and it's coming from China which pays only $2/ hr to their workers, and if it starts producing in USA where the min. wage is $15 on avg. how much will it cost to build in USA?

>>512793680
shut the fuck up they have been giving out free goddamned spy devices since obamaphones for a very specific spy device reason
when you counterfeit money you can shuffle money around without it impacting your bottom line much

>>512789699 (OP)
*yawn* nothing I buy has increased in price. Don't buy trash from China I guess?

>>512793839

Your math is not mathing

>>512793459
VAT is applied at every step of a process where value was added and domestic manufacturing gets a rebate on it ending at POS. This essentially makes foreign goods cost at least the same as domestic ones betore any additinal import taxes like a straight tariff which they also use. Learn what things are before you spout off.

>>512789848
Except foreign exporters are eating the cost because the US consumer market is too valuable to them. China would collapse without the US consumer market. Tariffs have always been very American. The very first act of congress was enacting tariffs.

>>512791465
What is "pendleton"?

>>512794440
Because our founders hated taxes that weren't on direct consumption. Land ownership and goods.

>>512793680
>If a phone costs $1000 and it's coming from China which pays only $2/ hr to their workers
Well it sounds like those corporations operating the suicide net factories have plenty of profit margin to cut back on. Capitalism is based on stealing surplus value from the workers right? Don't you want less of that? The fat cats don't need that much profit.

The tariffs are more a political tool than an economic tool. Trump is using tariffs in lieu of military might.

>>512794535
iphones used to have as much as 40% profit margin, so a $1000 iphone would cost around $600 to produce. We can guess that around 70% of that is wages, like with most tech products. So $420. Producing it with 7 times the hourly wage would make it cost around $3120 with 0 profit margin.

>>512790722
>effectively making the tariff come out of foreign profit margins
And the importer would pay the same sticker price, contrary to OP's claim.

Essentially every country in the world has import tariffs and the entire world was silent and smug. Now that the US is doing it it's the end of the world. It's no different from say Israel having closed borders and a legalized ethnostate, but it's bad if America does it. Mexico will drop the legal hammer on you if you overstay a visa, but it's bad if America does it. What are you, an antisemitic racist?

>>512795181
The US and the rest of the world had tariffs around 2-4% at worst, not the double digits this orange idiot is throwing around

>>512795125
>iphones used to have as much as 40% profit margin
Prove it
>inb4 some (((article)))
You know that every corporation in existence cooks books in order to report losses every year and avoid taxes right?

>We can guess that around 70% of that is wages
>guess
In other words you don't know shit.

Essentially every manufactured product that existed was made in a first world country 50 years ago. They were affordable by the general population, and the workers made more than today. Today, every manufacturing process is better and more efficient, yet you claim this is impossible. This is flat-earther "we lost the moon landing technology) tier nonsense.

The real problem I have is that he's too much of a gorilla nigger to differentiate between commercial vs personal imports. I really shouldn't have to suffer or take a QOL hit when all I do is buy niche hobby shit not made (and will never be) in the US. I'm not a corporation making a profit, I'm not a dropshipper, and I'm not denying some mutt shop owner or American trinket maker any money because if anything, this just means I'm going to refuse to spend the money.

>>512789699 (OP)
That persons identity is literally being poor lmao
hahahaha
LMAO
KEK
HUEHUEHUEHUEHUE
ITS LITERALLY THEIR SCREENNAME
I AM POOR
HAHAHAHAHA

>>512795442
The point is to force concessions on their import tariffs/other barriers or force reshoring, not passive income. Nobody is going to build a factory here when it's cheaper to take a 1% loss or something.

>>512789699 (OP)
>used to buy all my goods from aliexpress
>already getting more expensive cause people started catching on
>now literally all the shit i wanted has doubled
>its still fucking cheaper than amerilard "goods"
for instance this i got for fucking 80 bucks 5 years ago...

>>512795489
>Essentially every manufactured product that existed was made in a first world country 50 years ago.
This argument is retarded. The things made 50 years ago can not compare to semiconductor production. This is like some british guy arguing that horse carriage used to be made entirely in london.

stop buying chink shit.

Thank you Herr Trump. There's now less online marketplace competition because Americans have to pay more than I do. I voted for this!

>>512789699 (OP)
Yeah I’m sure that redditor is relaying a real conversation that actually happened

>>512789699 (OP)
It's even worse than that. My brother in law thought that tariffs are like taxes on imported goods and that that extra cost goes to the government.

>>512790487
He's not technically wrong. The point of tariffs is to support domestic production by making imports more expensive, thus driving down imported item sales. Citizens would then buy more domestic product, and less imported in theory.

So the foreign exporters do lose revenue, just not directly from being taxed themselves.

That being said. Without a full scale reindustrialization effort, the tariffs are just a tax on Americans. Because hardly any domestic factories are being supported or built. We're still going to get a lot of Chinese imports because it will still be cheaper to import than manufacture here.

Ugh my stupid relative that supported Trump thought tariffs would mean anything from foreign countries was free WTF???? This happened in real life.

>>512796071
This is what it would cost to buy it in the EU.

>>512789699 (OP)
No. If you buy a $100 item from China with a 30% tariff you pay $100 and China pays a $30 freedom bonus to President Trump. They don't raise the price to the American consumer because Trump said not to.

(This is what Republicans actually believe btw.)

>>512795181
>every country in the world has import tariffs
in limited areas to help local established industries product dumping. They don't do huge universal tariffs on everything. All trump is doing is dropping a regressive tax on average people to help fund his tax cuts for the wealthy.

>>512790008
$140 before taxes. US companies tend to pass on tariffs at 130% to the consumer. I don't know how this justify this, "admin fee" or something.

>>512796374
That's how tariffs historically have always worked. If the chinese supplier could charge 130 they would be doing so already. Instead they will eat the losses and probably ask for a subsidy from their government to offset the tariffs to retain their market share.

>>512796236
More of the extra cost stays in the country is also part of the pitch

>>512796279
fake, real life doesn't exist

>>512795181
Anti-dumping tariffs are hardly the same thing. Trump using tariffs matched to trade deficits which is a completely different thing and quite ridiculous. How many American cars can a Canadian buy in order to preserve cheap energy and lumber imports for Americans? Its insane.

Its the logic of a stupid man with dementia. Sorry.

>>512789699 (OP)
This is why Amazon and Walmart should label how much of the price is from tariffs.

>>512796645
>That's how tariffs historically have always worked. If the chinese supplier could charge 130 they would be doing so already.
As retarded as believing that the price spikes during COVID shouldn't have happened because "if they believed they could get away with charging 50% more they would have".

>>512796279
This happens in other countries too.
When the EU imposed the tariffs on chinese EVs my uncle thought he could get one for 10k€ instead of 20k€.
There are retards everywhere, and in todays age they can link up with other retards instead of getting laughed at in the village square.

>>512796645
The Chinese supplier is competing with another Chinese supplier though, its not American companies that want to charge 500 dollars for the same item (if they could make it, and they can't). Now nobody can or will supply it for less than 130 dollars. If they have any sense they'll both set a new floor at 150 and fleece the American pay pigs.

>>512790008
>The item is now $130 plus taxes
No, it's even higher...$100 widget.. You have biz costs but also need to sell to afford to buy another Widget. Yet that replacement has gone up too. So you need to keep your margins or you can afford to run the biz + a higher replacement..
https://youtu.be/IVwIyciIIiI?si=nFnZeOGB2x7ipGLH

>>512796650
>More of the extra cost stays in the country is also part of the pitch
Yeah, straight into the pockets of rich kikes because Trump won't raise their taxes. It's not going to ordinary Americas.

>>512796888
Is “after tarrif period” using the original price as its baseline, or the increase from tariffs?

>>512796820
Bezos got on his knees and ate a big fat plate of Trump diarrhea 1 second after Amazon threatened to do this kek.

>>512797038
And don't forget, even IF an american company comes along and starts producing locally, they have 0 incentive to drop the price below import+tariff, so the product will at least stay this expensive. And if they CAN'T match the price the government will set the tariff even higher to make sure the local product stays competitive, so you will get fleeced for ever while other countries buy the stuff for half as much.

There is no incentive for VW to bring an EV below 20k€ to the market as long as the EU makes sure chinese companies can not sell below that price.

>>512797174
I didn’t say otherwise

>>512797038
>The Chinese supplier is competing with another Chinese supplier though,
That's largely irrelevant unless you believe them to be a cartel in which case they again would simply raise prices anyways. One of them chargers 130 the other undercuts that down to 129 then the other does 128 until you get back down to 100 which is what consumers will actually pay. Customers don't care how much something costs to make only what the price is. Again this already happened exactly like this when Trump did his first round of tariffs and when everyone else including China did their own tariffs because that's how the economy works.

>>512789699 (OP)
>We have to pay more?????
Yes. I don't understand why so many Americans can't seem to grasp it, it's not hard.

>>512797298
So why would the EU do that then?

>>512796820
People will just decrease the amount of things they buy until prices come down.

>>512789960
They think it will bring back American manufacturing, despite the fact that the tariffs are being done in a completely disorganized and chaotic manner and Trump has no coalition or plan or project for actually bringing back manufacturing. Companies like Apple are making deals to build in the US just to avoid being punished directly by Trump. It’s just gangster behavior.

>>512789699 (OP)
Maybe this will incentivize people to stop buying Chinese garbage that just ends up in landfills after it's first use.

>>512796645
This is already not what is happening under Trump’s tariffs. Prices are going up.

>>512789960
Th cope is that it will bring American manufacturing back to the US. But even if that does happen, prices of goods will still go up by at least 100%. Trump said it himself: your daughter may only get one doll at Christmas now.

>>512797229
I assume it's from the tariffed price, I doubt they became 10% cheaper than they were in 2018.
>>512797310
Fair enough.

>>512797421
Because the EU is led by Germany that actively suppresses demand. i.e., it is German economic policy that its people should not increase their standard of living. Most of the EU (if not member states) holds a similar kind of view of things. Its quite alien to the American mind I'm guessing. Its why we never get stimulus checks for example.

>>512789699 (OP)
Me and no one I know has seen anything actually be more expensive. I've asked most of my friends, my family. Remember when a toaster at walmart was going to be $500 and we were all going to be impoverished?

The most I've seen is fluctuating costs of raw materials in construction, but what else is new?

>>512797437
Maybe instead of 20 dolls you should just have 1 goyim.

>>512797462
95% of Chinese slop can't be made in America period because we have air and water pollution rules. A fuck doll factory in China can dump 10 million tons of plastic waste directly into the Pacific Ocean each year but in America we have to at least pretend to properly treat waste streams.

>>512797691
Because TACO Trump kept pushing back the dates to fool you into thinking things were ok.

>>512797421
Because european car manufacturers are lagging behind, and NOT just the german ones >>512797690
No manufacturer is ready to produce electric vehicles at comparable cost to the chinese ones.
But this will get REALLY dicy once BYD opens their plant in hungary and the tariffs go away, because it's not just a price thing, comparable cars will not get anywhere close to the software and included extras of BYD cars.

>>512797697
Rare earths more to the point. Which aren't very rare, you just don't ever want them extracted on your own continent if you are intending to keep living there yourself.
To be honest we really don't pay China enough for externalities involved. All tariffs did there was make them think about it a bit, not a great idea.

>>512789960
Outsourcing obviously tends to increase a country's GDP because, if it weren't more efficient, companies wouldn't do it. However, almost all of the profits go to the upper management, and the local workforce gets booted. People see tariffs as a way to reverse this development. The GDP might shrink, and commodities might get more expensive, but perhaps the middle class can get stronger again. Getting by in a wealthy country is far better than being destitute in a rich country.

>>512797775
And suppliers stocked up on items expecting these tariffs to hit. And Trump still left a bunch of exemptions in place to ease things slowly.

I am in the retro video games hobby and see the prices of a lot of hardware go up as suppliers have finally burnt through all their stock. And some have straight up stopped shipping to the US as Trump is now clamping down on the middlemen and closing the de minimis exemption.

>>512797421
>So why would the EU do that then?
Why do you think? Car manufacturers in the EU can't compete with 10k Chinese EVs. This wasn't a rule made to help the consumer, it was for VW and other Euro manufacturers that can't produce an item that's lower in price (because of regulation and employee salaries).

If you think VW can out compete a car factory in China that operates at 1/5 the cost, I got a bridge to sell you. This way VW doesn't go under, and the Chinese EV companies don't overtake the entire market. Either way, the consumer always loses.

>>512797775
This
>omg look nothing has happened even though we had all these tariffs economists were WRONG
>99% of the tariffs weren't even in effect until August 1 and he just pushed the major China ones off for ANOTHER three months

>>512789960
Because fuck dem importers.

>>512798017
Outsourcing "obviously" doesn't increase GDP, they increase corporate profits which is why they do it but it's a net negative to the country that gets outsourced from.

>>512789699 (OP)
Who gives a shit, they're going to debase the currency by at least another 40 percent in the next 5 years regardless who wins what ever fake and gay “election”. The fact that libs still believe this shit is real is its own humuliation ritual.

>>512797957
I meant it in wider scope. Its why Trump has misunderstood trade deficits and why tariffs are precisely the wrong thing to do to reduce them.

I mean, he's right to be annoyed about deficits esp. with Germany (China isn't too pleased either) he's just done exactly the wrong thing.

Germany buys toys from China. Chinaman gets richer, his currency strengthens and now he can buy cars from Germany. German... doesn't get richer because of direct intervention from the state and their economic dogma and importing weakness from the PIGS in the Euro. The Euro does not strengthen, the state will not let him consume more with domestic economic policy. He will not be buying even more toys from China however many cars they buy from him.

They've been playing a zero sum trade game for a while. But the US tariffs won't unwind that.

>>512789699 (OP)
NOOO NOT MY CHINESE SLOP!!!!!!

>>512791586
No that has nothing to do with the failing economy

>>512798090
A lot of these hobby scenes are going to be completely fucked up as there is nothing approaching any kind of US manufacturing for many of them. Exceptions would be guns and knives, I guess.
And these hobby manufacturers do not have the capital to bootstrap US operations. They rely on existing Chinese supply chain integration.

>>512789699 (OP)
george takei is an unironic pedophile molester who rapes men.
allowing him to be alive in the USA and then giving him a career for being asian is part of "how we got here" sigh.

>>512798451
We get the final laugh though that fag's dead

>>512789960
Because over 21% of the US population are functionally illiterate.
Compared to, say, Russia's less than 1%

>>512790964
>faggot that posts retarded homo shit.

Make sense.

>>512798337
His deficit calucaltions are also kinda retarded because they don't consider services, which is a huge part of the US economy.

>>512796374
That's actually how it worked in the past, the Chinese actually did absorb most of the tariffs. It's a bit more serious now as the Chinks aren't holding as much US debt as they were, they're divesting pretty fast from the USA. This is another problem for Trump, he seems to have pissed too many investors off.

>>512790271
>we must tax the corporations
>no not like that
Huh? How are leftists reconciling their demands for higher taxes this whole time? Did they think those wouldn't be passed down to the consumer?

>>512790761
based

>>512789699 (OP)
The point is that Americans buy less stuff from China and more from the USA...

>>512789960
Because liberals leave it at the surface level of "hurrdurr goods more expensive". In reality that is only in the short term and only for products that don't have an analogue already being produced in America.

In the medium/long term consumers will start buying American goods which are cheaper then the inflated foreign goods (thanks to tariffs). Foreign companies will want to open production of their products in the USA to get around tariffs (more jobs). Finally, new American businesses will be started for products being sold for high prices.

Lastly, by keeping the money supply within the United states, i.e. export/import parity, money will continuously circulate through our economy opening up secondary markets for luxury goods, toys, paintings, crafts, etc. as people have more disposable income.

>>512789960
who is cheering on this shit other than magatards ?

I bought everything i needed due to WW3 shortages. Turns out i was only half right and now i am sitting on a shitload of supplies. I could not do this during covid for work related reasons but i got that out of my system when i realized Russia/Ukraine make most of the grain/gas/fertilizer. I figured fuck it better stock up on shit i want and if it expands shit i do not need should be included too.

Like most people tariffs aren't my problem since i spent the money before it and now just save money/invest.

>>512789960
Elon and his army of jeets and online bots have astroturfed the internet. Normies cannot tell the difference between reality and bots. The human race is finally doomed.
ACCELERATE

>>512789848
>middlemen also get hit
They're raising prices to cushion the blow. It's the mom and pop shops that are losing customers rapidly while big businesses are barely getting dinged. (which is pretty much what happens every time the economy decides to backflip off the jungle gym)

>>512789699 (OP)

>>512800992
>In reality that is only in the short term
Explain to me why any american company should lower their prices below the import+tariff level. This never happened.

>>512789699 (OP)
>my brother in law

>>512800992
>at the surface level of "hurrdurr goods more expensive". In reality that is only in the short term

Where do I get extra money in this so called "short term" for items I need? Is the govt. going to give me free extra money for "short term"?

> Foreign companies will want to open production of their products in the USA to get around tariffs

Why is the US market so special? There are 194 other countries where the foreign companies can increase their sale, what's so special about US market?

>>512800992
>by keeping the money supply within the United states
Communism?

I'm not as smart as you so I'd genuinely like to know.

>>512789699 (OP)
the purpose of tariffs is not to lower the cost of imported goods
it's to raise them so there's an incentive to make them in the US

>>512790008
realistically the item is imported for 70 and sold for 100 (42% margin for the merchant)

the 30% tariff raises 80 to 104 (it is applied to the import price, not the resell price).
then, if the merchant wants the same margin, the item is now sold for 148.

>>512789699 (OP)
>YOU DONT UNDERSTAND
>I NEED THAT CHEAP CARCINOGENIC TEMU SHIT AS CHEAP AS POSSIBLE

>>512789699 (OP)
It's a tax on imported goods.

>>512797957
>>512798104
Our tariffs are also there to help the companies and not the consumer. But the people who might get jobs from this aren’t going to afford a new EV anyway. I’m glad we’re all on the same page

>>512794342
Okay? Not sure if that is true but that literally just makes it worse.

>>512797627
>Prices are going up.
They've been going up for four fucking years, you retard. None of this is new.
The fact remains the tariff fallout has been extremely minor compared to the catastrophic "the economy will collapse, GREAT DEPRESSION 2.0!" that every talking head has been pushing since last year.

>>512789699 (OP)
I still don't get how these tariffs work.
>Trump is upset about trade deficits
>wants more countries to buy more from the US
>so puts in place tariffs on things people are sending TO the US, not buying FROM the US
>which makes it cost more to send to the US
>which makes the trade deficit increase
Because if the US buys $3 billion from X country but only sells $2 billion to X country (so a $1 billion deficit), then if X country gets hit with a 50% tariff, it means the US now buys $4.5 billion from X country but is still only selling $2 billion to X country, creating a new deficit of $2.5 billion, right?

>>512805666
>extremely minor
We’ve had six months of TACO and tariff pauses, but now the reciprocal tariffs finally went into effect, and de minimis is ending at the end of the month. People are going to feel a pinch. Prices on consumer goods like cameras are already up in order to account for tariffs.

>>512789699 (OP)
>>512789848
The long term consequence, in theory, would be that american companies would take the place of foreign product manufacturers, since it might be profitable again for american companies to compete with those products that are now affected by tariffs.
Whether or not that will happen is uncertain. If you ask me, I think that most companies know that it's not worth the investment to manufacture in the US when the next president will probably remove the tariffs in 3 years.

>>512789699 (OP)
>stop buying at $130
>seller needs to sell the item still
>wait
>????
>seller drops price back to $100
>purchase item
>tariffs now built into the same price and seller is paying for tariff with item value depreciation
>notmyproblem.png

>>512789699 (OP)
The only way this has effected me was when I wanted to buy knock off legos from China. They had german tanks and SS lego figures and I really wanted to get my hands on some bu the tarriff and shipping cost was more than the actual prices for the base item. Not really worth it for some toys. I want some Nazi lego men though.

>>512807252
That's some unforeseen collateral damage. I'm sorry fren.
Any pics of the forbidden lego army men?

>>512807448
I think there are a couple of brands of various quality. Sometimes it's hard to find pics because Lego is litigous about the figures. Here's an example I found.

>>512789960
American education is like a house of cards.

>>512804962
My point is the US having tariffs is indeed simply leveling the field. I'm not saying I have exact numbers but let's say we're talking about an EU nation with VAT and tarrifs on imports and we want to sell a car. The domestic car has had a VAT applied at every step from mining the ores to the finished good for each company a product is sold to, every tax can be rebated except the one at point of sale by the customer. This is to encourage not overstocking or flooding markets. Conversely, the foreign made already finished car when imported has a VAT applied on the importer making it cost about what a domestic one in the same class would. Then any additional import tariff is applied before sale, VAT rebated after sale to importer and paid by consumer. The bitching about US tariffs comes from either not understanding the way most of the world works, or what is actually going on, or manipulation by non US markets not wanting to lose leverage.

>>512806556
Who buys a camera alone other than a photographer or Hollywood?

>>512798378
The economy isn't failing, you retard. The wages of the poor isn't the economy.

>>512789699 (OP)
I'm retarded but from what I gather
>item costs $100
>chinese tarrif is %30
>it costs $130
>if the product that $100 item goes into cost $200, more than likely it'll cost $230 now

>>512808346
What actually happens
>item sold for $100 costs maybe $20 to import
>the supplier now has to pay ~$27 for the good
>a just supplier would charge $110 - $120
>idiots fall for your thinking and keep paying if there's no cheaper option

>>512789960
/pol/cels and MAGAfags are the dumbest people on the planet, out of any time period. They would’ve died during childhood if they lived in any other country.

>>512807743
Now we know why the chinese won at capitalism. They don't ask questions, they just make stuff people want.
That was pretty hilarious bro. I guess you could get a 3d printer or maybe print the stickers, but I get how the chinese solution was pretty convenient.
What do you do with the legos? Is it something you share with someone or just a personal hobby?

>>512790099
Checked and it'll take at least a decade for US manufacturing to build up, even if the logic holds, which there's no reason to think it will. The only "Americans" willing to work factory hours are undocumented browns. White America isn't psychologically prepared to do it.
In a decade, China will already be 2 steps ahead. They're the ones fully automating dark factories. What is America going to do? Build dark factories? Then nobody has a job. And America isn't communist China. There isn't even a pathway to UBI or any solution.
So tariffs means dark factories in America means total unemployment in America. Means what?
Trump is the retarded puppet of the only possible winners: billionaire AI tycoons like Peter Thiel.
And who does he serve?

>>512808652
Our manufacturing techniques are still top in the world, they will be automated and already increasingly are. Think Ford raw goods in cars out plant with almost no workers.

>>512791784
Not really. Tariffs are essentially monolithic, which means all inputs are also subject to import tax. If you need steel and aluminum to make a washing machine and there doesn't exist enough domestic capacity to make those washing machines... you're just going to have to eat the tax and pass it off on consumers.

>>512791628
I get that the argument is "well just make more steel and aluminum!" and, in a nutshell, it has a point. In reality, it takes a long time to stand up an entire industry, and because everything you need to start producing e.g. steel also requires cap-ex, those things are also subject to cost increases from tariffs. There is a very real chance of runaway inflation here because the tools we need to mitigate inflation are themselves subject to inflationary pressures. Trump's tariffs are deeply, deeply misguided on almost every possible level.

>>512789699 (OP)
You have too much many anyway and Trump needs another golden toilet.

>>512808512
Yeah I'm really sick of the nanny BS attitude in the western world. I actually do have a 3d printer and I'm not even a lego collector. I just dig tanks and vehicles and thought it would be fun to put some together. Some of the kits are actually pretty good models. I also just love these little edgy lego figures and the accessories they come with. I also feel like the "forbidden" aspect of them just makes them even more hilarious and fun to me. Even the expressions crack me up. There's a whole variety of them.

>>512808780
Capacity is always the issue. Take the 'high speed internet' issue. There are not enough qualified fiber splicers in the entire world to do what politicians wanted

>>512789699 (OP)
>Mfw most /pol/tards think the exact same thing this guys brother in law said about tariffs
Its fucking high school economics
A country has no trade barriers with imports from another country
Producing country makes a thing, the thing in consumer country, for a bunch of reasons that arent relevant to the example, thing costs $100
The consumer country decides to erect (lol) some trade barriers to imports from producing country
The producer country does the math and it comes out to a 20% increase in their costs to manufacture thing and ship to the consumer country for sale
Thing is now $120 in consumer country
And that doesnt account for all the things that used to be manufactured and shipped to the consumer country for sale that are now economically unfeasible to export now that there are new barriers to trade
In b4 >REEEEEEEEEEE CHINU HAS TARIFFS REEEEE UROPE HAS TARIFFFSSS
So?
Just because your neighbor walks out onto his lawn, pulls out a sidearm and shoots one of his toes off doesnt mean you need to replicate his behavior.

>>512789960
>wHy dO yOu HaTe CoNsOoMeRiSm?
Are you stupid

>>512789699 (OP)
I don't like tariffs but the pearl clutching over them is absurd

>>512789848
Why are leftists so against taxing the rich when it actually happens?
Suddenly they believe in full trickle down economics.

>>512809172
>high school economics
High school economics says price is determined by demand/what the market will bear, not cost. If your costs go up, you suffer margin compression. You can’t just raise prices because if you do, revenues will decrease. If you could have raised prices without revenues decreasing, then you would have already raised them. I know that the economy is governed by imperfect information and this describes an ideal case but it’s still a handy rule of thumb.

>>512804962
It's not true. Companies pay VAT when buying stuff from other companies within the EU, but they get refunded the total amount from the government. It's a sales tax with extra steps because they think forcing everyone to do the book keeping keeps them honest. When companies in the EU import from foreign countries, like the US, they don't pay VAT. When companies sell to foreign countries outside of the EU, like the US, they don't collect VAT.

This "VAT rabate" nonsense has been spewed in these threads again and again I have yet to see a single source ever presented on it. I have been able to find exactly zero information about any rebates on Swedish government sites. They all just say "As a company, you collect VAT when you sell and you pay VAT when you buy. The difference between what you paid and what you collected is then refunded by the government."

>>512789699 (OP)
>redditor makes up a fake story, retards believe it. More at 11

>>512809475
The rich aren't being taxed as much as the poor are with these tariffs. Relative to their purchasing power, they pay much less on tariffs. To boot, they just got a huge tax break from killing medicare. I'm not sure why or how you think taxes on the rich have been raised.

>>512790271
You know you don't look like that, right? I know you think you do, but you don't.

>>512809475
>taxing the rich
Tariffs are a regressive tax. The people who aren’t rich will feel them the most.

>>512789699 (OP)
Tarriff good saar trump does the needful and sends CEO like me tariff check.

>>512809755
>>512809872
Yeah, rightiods just don't get the rich pass their taxes onto the poor.

>>512809172
Or maybe you're actually just a fucking faggot like "Oh my!" guy that doesn't get it at all. China has been doing shit like putting roadblocks to keep US tires out of china, do some economic state manipulation with their tire industry, then ship theirs to the US like a loss leader with no trade barriers and put something like Firestone who is operating somewhat in good faith out of business. They fucked over my hometown like this.... actually, more like You faggots .... you're doing so much damage to this country. You're a fucking pussy who has let every country walk over ours. You're a sucker, you're all a bunch of suckers, and everyone is laughing that we have to share a democracy with you as you drag us down. The point about other countries is all you faggots gnash your teeth about how bad tariffs are but then you don't make a peep about every other country. You'll buy nikes made buy slave labor (you probably are a sneaker head fag too) and buy iphones (you're probably an i user because you're a faggot) but then moralize to the rest of us from your macbook. Faggot.

>>512790099
The response isn't monolithic. If you have high stock, you're probably going to release it at lower margins or even a loss because it may be cheaper than storing it and trying to sell it at a higher margin. If you sell something cheap and in high volume, volume may be important to your margin than price point, so you won't see as much of an increase. If you're selling something high end with low supply and high demand, the price will change more rapidly. Some goods have such loyalty that they know they can get away with it, low recognization brands not so much. And it will also depend on the tariffs imposed on the particular country of origin, some being higher or lower. It may be better to simply export them to another country before they get imported to the US. Some companies may stop exporting to the US all together. And there's combinations and gray areas in all of that. All said and done, it will likely take years before the full cost of tariffs have been realizes and prices stabilize, and countries may renegotiate in the meantime.

>>512789699 (OP)
We know how tariffs work you jackass. It will raise the proice for consumers here. The goal is to get more manufacturing here. Chinese goods only cost less because of poor worker conditions, poor pay, child labor, and no emission standards. Want livable wages and safety and green workplaces? Then it fucking costs more. It's not fair to force rules on the US companies then just buy everything from places with none of those rules. It defeats utterly, the point of those rules. The rules in question are mostly things liberals support!

Bring back US manufacturing, make slave labor untenable.

>>512789848
na, you can convince the importer firm to eat the cost or change the importer firm. we did. Though many businesses won't be able to.

>>512789699 (OP)
>So how does the tariff work?

corporations send jobs overseas because they can pay $0.25 and hour and have the products sent back here for substantial profit --> tariffs make this practice more expensive and if the tariff is enough they start bringing jobs back because its more of a headache to ship things if it costs them the same

>competing with slave labor is the reason why people work two jobs and cant make it because the deflated the value of their labor

>>512789699 (OP)
wait didnt this guy die of aids? am i crazy?

>>512810579

>The goal is to get more manufacturing here.
Answer me this then >>512793680

>>512810722
Even most leftists stopped paying attention to him a few years ago when he went off about his positive response to gay men molesting young boys like he was as a child.

>>512809537
This thread is about tariffs you fucking moron
Tariffs have nothing to with supply/demand
They are tax implemented by governments
Are you okay?

>>512789699 (OP)
You know exactly how they work tranny nigger. By design it's to get people to do more business either here in America or from places that will play ball to avoid getting hit with tariff fees. Sellers are left with the choice of dropping their prices to keep selling, raising their prices and praying that people keep buying at ridiculous rates, or pressure their government to negotiate something with the orange man. If prices become too much then China gets left holding their bag of slop with no one willing to buy it. Takei is a retard that thinks we must continue the status quo of ever increasing demand from China forever.

tfw I already have all the electronics i want
i just buy digital slop and local food
no tariffs
>feels good man.jpg

>>512810781
About 25% more. I don't think smartphones are a good benchmark though because it doesn't really affect the end consumer in the same way other things might. Many people are having the costs offset by subsidies from wireless providers.

>>512810380
They aren't operating at a loss though, the Chinese economy is largely driven by Us consumers. It just turns out they don't put CO2 capture devices in tire plants, and they don't care about safety, and will work child labor in fumes 70 hours a week until they get cancer. China can be nice, but at the bottom of their system, they don't treat workers like humans.

If we learned anything from the Civil war, it was competing with slavery devalued all labor.

Imagine if instead of slaves, it's robots that make everything. But only Jeff Bezos owns them and gets all the profits. You used to make 2 Things an hour while another human worker made 2 Trinkets. You could only produce 1 of anything else per hour, but by specializing you can both trade at an advantage. By specializing and having fair trade, you can both have a Thing and a Trinket every single hour. Enter Bezos and his army of robots. They can now make 4 Million Trinkets an hour. They still want to trade with you 1:1. The Value of your Thing went waaaay down. But you have no choice because, while you can spend an hour to make a Trinket, that's now worth. 0.0000001 hours of Bezo's time.

Slavery is like robots. And we're only trimming the fat in gov now right before AI replaces everyone. There will be no backup jobs, it will just be a few unbelievably rich assholes with everything and whether it is AI, robots, or foreign slaves, the work will be nothing a self respecting American can compete with. Even if you do everything yourself, Bezos will have the money to lobby gov for regulations until making a house yourself is basically illegal.

The only groups losing are workers, whether in China or here. The point of a Tariff is to force foreign slavery to not replace actual human work. But we're going to have problems as automation and AI replace work.

>>512811078
Unfortunately (for you) you are also a Mexican in Mexico.

>>512789699 (OP)
You haven't factored in the surplus of goods we get on the market as all the chink businesses go bankrupt from lack of american income

>>512810781
The average iPhone costs about $10 to make. So the same. Labor costs are not why product costs are where they are. It's typically less than 1% of the product price. Why would you want American workers to compete with people working for $2/hr? That always was predicted to put most of the US into poverty and that does infact seem to be the case.

>>512806865
That and you set up manufacturing plants in areas with cheap land and looser labor laws. Those are usually filled with nigs, so then the government forces you to hire and never fire nigs or face discrimination lawsuits. No one wants that really

>>512810896
Tariffs are a cost. They’re a government imposed cost, but still a cost. They increase the cost of an imported good by X%. The idea that this translates to an increased sale price of X% is nonsense. The sale price is determined by what consumers will pay, not cost-plus.

>>512789699 (OP)
>A Nip import defending Chink imports
Send them both back

>>512789699 (OP)
Depends. If passing the tariff fully onto the customer results in less sales, it may be more worth it for them to absorb the cost. It really depends on their margins. It likely won't be a 1to1 charge. 30% won't necessarily mean 30% increased cost.

>>512789848
This. The rest of the sheep don’t realize it but this is actually a good thing. Now we get to learn how to be smarter with our money and become successful like everyone in the Trump family

>>512789699 (OP)
Tariffs only have a tangible effect on inelastic goods.

>>512789848
wrong in every thing you said

>>512789699 (OP)
>How do tariffs work
Tariffs are really simple. Its just an international sales tax
>Passed entirely to consumer
Delusional. Thats only the case in a monopoly or in cases where there were legal contracts to buy that included provisions for the customer to pay the tax and weren't renegotiated. In reality, consumers pay more, but not as much as the tariff amount, while the merchants make less. Thats only if the tariffed country is the only or major producer of the good, too. In most cases, the price difference between tariffed and non-tariffed goods is small, and customers will just switch to non-tariffed goods with minimal price impact.

>>512789960
Trump Enslavement Syndrome

>>512789699 (OP)
A Chinese item costing $100 with 30% tariff would go like this:

The US would demand that China pay the $30 tariff tax. They would pay it by increasing the price that they sell their item to the importer... to $130. The importer would resell it at, say, $150, to cover THEIR taxes and still maintain a profit. The final purchaser now ends up paying 50% more for what they paid prior to the tariffs.

However, and here's the important thing: this only goes so far. At a certain point, the final consumer will simply refuse to buy at the massively increased price. Because they refuse, the middleman importer won't import them at the tariff price. Eventually, China will be FORCED to pay the tariff out of their own pockets, because the final consumer has a maximum amount that they will pay, regardless of other considerations. The alternative is that China refuses to sell the item to the importer/final consumer at all, forcing the consumer to either source a cheaper provider, or else provide the item themselves.

What we want is that last option: provide it ourselves. The purpose of tariffs is to make foreign goods so Goddamn expensive that it's cheaper to produce them locally, providing jobs and a massive boost to the local AND national economy. That takes time though. Until that point, there will be shortages and price spikes. The consumer will just have to deal with that, because the end goal is well worth the "growing pains".

>>512812419
>In most cases, the price difference between tariffed and non-tariffed goods is small
This is because in most cases the tariffs themselves are small. An enormous 50% tariff is not going to result in a small difference because it is a very big tariff.

>>512789848
people who want fucking jobs do you stupid nigger

>>512812622
If you’re waiting for a job in a new robot-run US plant then I advise you to consider a wider range of career options

>>512789699 (OP)
Don't buy Chinese item.

>>512813052
your country would stop producing cars, electronics and most weapons without Chinese items.

>>512789848
oh nooo so how do you get your funkopops? does this mean you can't consooom product and get excited for next product?? Trump is literally hitler for doing this to you.

>>512813308
I am okay with that

>>512812575
>forcing the consumer to either source a cheaper provider, or else provide the item themselves.
How do you find a cheaper producer? Producers exiting the market decrease supply, which, if demand is held constant, means prices will rise. The prices across the entirety of the industry rise, especially if tariffs cause a mass exodus from the market.

I'm far more sanguine about domestic capacity to produce these goods cheaply. This is partly because Americans just don't want to work these jobs -- preexisting factories were already hurting for labor and it's gotten wiser -- and partly because the supply chain for all inputs must begin in America and stay in America to avoid tariffs. Wanna know some more jobs Americans go out of their way to avoid working? Yup, mining, smelting, foundry work, etc.

The problem here isn't sourcing domestic components -- it's a mass exodus from the market leaving what remains in tenuous shape and rendering any attempts to solve it also being gated behind the same tariffs regime. There is no relief here, only cascading economic risk without employing any of the tools (e.g. subsidies) on which economists tend to actually agree.

>this guy i totally for real know in real life really said this frfr

>>512789699 (OP)
This faggot had gay sex at 13 and jerked off a guy on the Howard Stern show.

>>512789699 (OP)
yes but some companies will absorb part of the tariff to remain competitive so it's not always true. some renegotiate whoilesale prices and prices remain virtually unchanged. companies also bulk purchased before tariffs. theres also manufacture in china ship to another country not hit by tariffs and assebmle there then import from that coutnry.

there really ahsnt been a huge increase in prices overall.

>>512789699 (OP)
I thought this faggot died yet here he is pretending to be an economist

>guys guys tariffs are le bad okay?
>just ignore the fact that every single country the U.S. put tariffs on and tariffs on American products
>But it wasn’t bad when they did it because…it just wasn’t okay?!

>>512789848
We buy less foreign shit
American businesses pivot to on ramp their goods in america. Slump early on and then 5-7 years down the road our country flourishes because we make our products again. Market will be bad for only a couple of years. This will die or succeed based on who wins the next election. I'm confident if vance rubio win or if steve bannon wins the USA will reign supreme.

>sulu still has not succumbed to aids
so tiresome
click