Thread 512820715

Was listening to some old Jonathan Bowden lectures on Fascism and he said something I have always thought, that Islam is the most right wing belief system in the world.

Bowden himself says the only reason he opposed it was because hes a racialist and most of them are white and he can't be logically consistent and belief in fascism, racial identitarianism and follow any universalist religion like Christianity or Islam. But he makes the point the only western thinker to get anywhere near as right wing as normative Sunni Islam, is Evola.

Islam:
>Death for homosexuality
>Death for Apostasy
>Death for Adultery
>Death for murder
>Death for rape
>Amputation for theft
>Live crucifixion for spreading corruption in the land
>Enforced full body covering for women and can't leave home without a male guardian
>Men have total authority in the household and only men can be leaders and rulers, warriors etc
>Warrior religion
>Bans Usury curses the yahood
>No shitlib seperation of religion and state
>Polygamy is legal and it is part of the sunnah to have as many kids as possible
>No chance of peace for Pagans, secularists, communists whose belief make them evil and must be fought until killed, converted or enslaved
>Monotheists get to live under the sharia as dhimmi, Dhimmis pay a tax less than zakkat and no income or state taxes. Taxes are haram except for individual local taxes when towns are building somehting for infrastructure, like a bridge or a road
>Total free market on weapons and weapons ownership that can't be legislated against
>Slavery is totally halal if they are captured in a jihad declared by a legitimate caliph, can have sex with your female slaves as well as up to 4 wives
>Men have the sole right to divorce, except in rare circumstances a woman can apply to a judge for a divorce, but she has to pay back her dowry if granted it, kids are automatically under fathers care

not for race, surely everyone here would think Islam is the most based religion right?

>>512820715 (OP)
I am not convinced that being that hardo about social mores is desirable or necessary. Surely there are other ways to get women to have kids short of locking them in cages

>>512821415
Doesn't seem like it. All the secular or nationalist or communist or whatever countries have shit birthrates, including the muslim populations ruled over by secular tyrants. In fact the only places on earth that have reached peak fertility are al shabab controlled territories, ISIS controlled territories.

Women not having political, religious or social power seems to be the only way to get anywhere near a rate of 8 babies per couple.

>>512821586
What about, I don't know, punitive taxation for both men and women past a certain age until they get married and have kids?

>>512821902
Not being able to have sex until marriage, upon the threat of stoning to death seems like a huge motivator for men to get married, women too.

And in a culture where women are at home working, cooking, cleaning and praying, they love to have kids, in fact they compete to have the most.

Abortion is illegal.
Having kids is seen as an honour and blessing.
Having kids in a society where men work and women stay home becomes a huge advantage instead of a detriment.

>leniency
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FYtNQ8izM0
>lol

>>512820715 (OP)
Retarded assholes that blame everyone else for all of their problems, rape/pillage/murder anyone who isn't "of the faith" and then kill each other, for any reason they can dream up.

>>512822771
Do you have any non leftist critiques?

>>512820715 (OP)
The Koran is just a re-skinned Talmud. You can hate Jews and regulate women without kike manuals.

>>512820715 (OP)
Starting packing your bags. Remigration is coming, Ali.

>>512822991
>>512822991
Muslims believe that Abraham and moses were Musims and that people corrupted the message and became jews. Then they believe jesus was sent with a message and the jews killed him and his followers who were muslims and the message was again distorted and so a final messenger came with the final revelation.

So from their perspective the torah and gospels are corrupted versions of judaism.

But again, you aren't actually addressing the question at hand.

>>512820715 (OP)
>I have always thought, that Islam is the most right wing belief system in the world.

Thats bullshit. Islam copies universalism and antiracialism from christianity.

>>512823341
Racism isn't a right wing view, scientific racism was developed by philisophical liberals at the beginnings of pre-enlightenment rationalist movement.

All proto-reactionary movements didn't have any race based doctrines. This is why Italian fascism is so different from national socialism, because they had different epistemological roots, he only adopted the race shit later to appease hitler

"In a long interview with Emil Ludwig in 1932, Mussolini confidently asserted that the notion that biological race was a determinative factor in history was entirely unpersuasive. In the Colloqui con Mussolini, he had reported that he had held that view all his political life. As an organizer in Trentino, he had written exclusively on the claim that race was a determinant in human history. In preparing his work he had reviewed the claims of all the principal “racial scientists” of the period—ranging from Arthur de Gobineau to Ludwig Woltmann and H. S. Chamberlain—and found their works entirely unsupported by empirical evidence. Continuing with his review of his personal convictions, Mussolini told Ludwig that anti-Semitism played no role in Fascism—and was convinced that it never would. He referred to Italian history and claimed that anti-Semitism had never been part of Italian life. He pointed to the fact that the contemporary Italian Jews discharged responsibilities in the Fascist Party, in its armed forces, in its judiciary, and throughout the educational establishment."

Blood and soil is inherently a rationalist, secularist and biological determanist world view.

Reactionary thought can not be rooted in the material world, it is metaphysical and spiritual. To be truly reactionary one can not base his epistmology on science, reason etc. This is the way Evola critiques Nazis from the right, his point is "the blood" is metaphysical, not material or biological.

I despise the universalist aspect of Islam and its obsession with submission and reverence to god and their prophet. A society's guiding principle must not be religious, it has to be racial: state, party and race.
The germs also seemed to have fixed women without the need for anything extreme like a "white sharia" or whatever crazy shit incels think is the solution to the woman problem.

>>512823889
German women became shit libs as soon as the regime fell. Even under western shitlib societies, most muslim women still wear hijab, still wait for marriage, still hate lgbt etc.

This is because secular, nationalism and racialism are progressive at their root. They are rooted in enlightenment principles.

Spiritualism is the only reactionary view that lives in peoples hearts even when their ideal regime falls.

This is why Women are wearing Burkhas in London at the same time as white girls are walking around half naked at 13.

>>512823889
And where are the Germans now? Islam prevails. Every single woman in my family married as a virgin. Did even your mother have that chastity?

>>512824136
Do they practise isthigatha though?

>>512824934
No. Why would they?

>>512826139
Pajistan is full of bidah and shirk has been normalized
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhsq0IHasVw

To bad he was ignorant of the fact Islam was always just a religion that turned Arabs into slaves of jews by forcing them to believe in jewish fairy tales. Maybe all the fat in his body was messing with his brain.

>>512826793
This goes on to say the jews abandoned God and became wretched evildoers lol.

>>512826930
But the Koran still promotes the idea that jews were ever "chosen" in other words if you don't believe jews were at one point the "chosen people" of the god of the universe.

Islam therefore is a cuck religion. And if you look at its origins it's even clearer Islam was only created by jews to reclaim Jerusalem from Christians.

>>512820715 (OP)
You're right, fundamentalist Islam is the most right-wing religion.
The living standards in shithole middle-east countries are the very best example of why fascism is a bankrupt and humanity-annihilating ideology.

>>512827076
The author of Hagarism recanted their hypothesis lol.

Yes they believe in the Prophets, from Abraham to Jacob, Moses, John the Baptist is a prophet in islam etc. Yes the children of Israel were given revelation and scripture. The modern jews are not considered those people as they abandoned their pure religion for rabbinical judaism. Muslims don;t believe the israelites were jews, they believe they were muslims.

>>512827493
> Hagarism recanted their hypothesis

literally never happened

>Yes they believe in the Prophets, from Abraham to Jacob, Moses, John the Baptist is a prophet in islam etc.

Which shows it's a psyop religion, if you have someone believing that jews are chosen, you have them believing anything. Historically Islam was always the religion that was cucked to jews the most, giving jews a privileged place in society.

Jews saw this as a sign of weakeness which is why they took Israel back for themselves, this tim

> Muslims don;t believe the israelites were jews

Wrong they believe that the Israelites(sons of Jacob/Israel) were jews, but they also believe that Ishmael got the birthright from Abraham not Isaac and that as the sons of Ismael Arabs are chosen too.

Since the Torah says nothing of Ismael having any birthright, and instead says that Ephraim and Manasseh inherit the birthright from Jacob/Israel Muslims have to pretend it's "corrupted"

>>512827245
Middle east regimes are not fundamentalist, they are secular, based on models of either socialism, national socialism etc, baathism, and their later degenerations towards less ideological nationalism.

Only one government in the middle east has sharia and its richer than all of western europe, has almost no violent crime ie saudi arabia.

And its still too cucked for most sunni muslims likings because its last great ruler was killed and the current ones simp for israel and america and are their puppet regime.

>>512828009
The muslims took the holy land from a completely secular turksih state. It was only when Islam was abandoned by the turks for secularism the muslims lost al aqsa.

Patricia Crone has rejected her earlier hypothesis in Hagarism FYI.

Are you not considering that Rabbinical judaism is the psyop and Abraham and Moses and Jesus all were simply monotheists who worshipped one God?

>>512828070
Saudi Arabia is more secular than Afghanistan.
Journey into the Talibani paradise in the Hindu Kush, I'm sure you'd fit right in.

>>512820715 (OP)
Islam is almost completely worthless imo, I read the Quran and what a dissapointment it was, you can really see that it was written for low IQ camel herders instead of people who have braincells to rub together, very short and simple book for simpletons, I dunno what I was expecting to be honest

>>512828426
The Taliban are insufficient in matters of religion to strict Muslims. They are Asharis. They are overwhelmigly in sufi tariqas. They permit isthigatha and other practices, they allied with the US and others to fight other Sunni Muslims etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbLEKxHJUc8

>>512828714
>they allied with the US and others to fight other Sunni Muslims etc.
And Saudi didn't?
How many US military bases are in Saudi Arabia again?

>>512828518
The Quran isn't a book of stories. Muslims believe it is revelation, given to the Prophet by Allah via the Angel Gabriel. The revelations are not put in order in a physical copy of the Quran, which simply means recitation.

Revelations came at different times, in different contects, for different reasons. Along with the Quran there are the hadith, which is also seen as a form of wahi, or revelation.

Then the secondary sources are the sira, biographies of the prophet and then there are the tafsir, in which the most renowned scholars explain the Quran. An English copy of a quran is just a translation, it can;t capture the eloquence in a simple language like English.

For reationaries who want to understand Islam, just because they are interested, they should watch lectures online, bu scholars who can explain things. Having no xontext of Islam and just dry reading an english copy of a quran might be slightly hard to grasp.

>>512828859
Yes thats why most fundamentalist muslims hate them too. But at least Saudis have athari aqeedah etc. Again thats their position. They hate saudi government for allying with the kuffar etc.

But they hate the Taliban for that plus their issues in aqeedah and what not. Also many would say allying with the US against Saddam was fine because saddam was a secular kaffir and so fighting him with other kaffirs help isn't breaking al wala wal bara.

>>512829030
Understanding Islam is easy, its very straight forward, you dont need any complex literary tricks or to read between the lines to understand it, like I said its a book written by dumb people for even dumber people, thats why they memorize it easily, its not complex and its very short and simple to understand

Its basically just a guide for a medieval arab savage on how to be obedient to Muhammed

>>512829378
What good would a book of guidance be if only brilliant people could read it?

Are you a christian?

>>512828211
>The muslims took the holy land from a completely secular turksih state

No they took it from the religious Byzantine state.

>Patricia Crone has rejected her earlier hypothesis in Hagarism FYI.

Never happened.

>t Rabbinical judaism is the psyop

How? It existed, and continues to exist. It most likely existed prior to Christianity in the form of the pharisees, through the "teachers" who interpreted the Torah in whatever way they felt like.

> Abraham and Moses and Jesus

Assuming you believe they existed, Jesus makes clear mention of the Torah in the New Testament.

>>512829575
Sorry meant the zionists took palestine from the secularized turks, not from the caliphate. Which completely goes against the point you were initially making. They only lost palestine when they turned their backs on islam.

>>512829575
Muslims believe the torah and gospels were true revelations that were later corrupted by people. Why is it the biggest critics of Islam literally don't know what Muslims believe lol?

>>512823816
If you're talking about intra-European differences, sure. But I don't imagine Mussolini or Evola or whoever would imagine that you could simply import millions of Chinese and seamlessly integrate them into whatever their state project was, let alone Bantus

>>512829912
>secularized turks

They didn't become secular until after they lost Palestine. The Ottoman Empire was still a sultanate with the official religion being Islam.

>>512829980
> torah and gospels

aka that the modern torah and gospels are corrupted exactly as I said.

>>512830408
They didn't lose palestine to the jews, the already mongrelized state with a symbolic caliph that lost ww1 and then got overthrown by the young turks, is not Islam losing.

They tried tog et Muslims to fight for them in ww1 as a jihad and the muslim world laughed at them.

>>512820715 (OP)
>Taxes are haram except
I don't accept this. US gov started as a ''taxes bad'' entity. Making exceptions to facilitate greed always ends the same.
>most based religion
Organized religion is God, with cuckery to corrupt men and pedos.

No.