Thread 512843399

to cede territory to Russia.

Ok.

So? What is the problem? Just amend the constitution. If the answer is "we will not amend the constitution", fine, then Trump can just say "I tried to deliver peace, Ukraine does not want it, we are out" and stop any aid or weapons transfer, including indirectly via Germany. Trump could then also lift all sanctions with Russia and trade with them like before. Ukraine can then see if they can win on their own.

Ukraine is an adult country, it can make its own decisions, if its decision is against peace, that is it. Then war continues.

There has been no peace proposals from r*ssia except of the extremely retarded one where Ukraine would have to give up what r*ssians never captured.
There won’t be any either, at least while Pootin is in power.
Stop kvetching.

>>512843636
>There has been no peace proposals from r*ssia except of the extremely retarded one where Ukraine would have to give up what r*ssians never captured.
My understanding is that Russia wants these territories plus a guarantee that Ukraine will be neutral and not join NATO.

That is a pretty clear proposal

>>512843777
They should go back to pre-lenin free gibs borders

>>512843777
There are some areas which Russia has captured that go beyond these regions, and they would be swapped, I guess. I think Russia would also be happy to pay Ukraine in oil and gas for the areas, just like the Alaska deal with America in the 1870s.

>>512843777
Yes, just as I said - an extremely retarded proposal that nobody, US included, sees as feasible.
Even r*ssia itself doesn’t seriously expect that it will be just given three cities with 600k, 300k and 100k pre-war population, it uses this bullshit to whitewash its eternal war in the eyes of the most gullible idiots such as (((you))).

>>512844746
>r*ssia
lmfao @ NAFOfags who do this

>territory swap
kek

>>512843777
>My understanding is that Russia wants these territories plus a guarantee that Ukraine will be neutral and not join NATO.
>That is a pretty clear proposal
It's not. They also want Ukraine disarmed completely. In essence they want to be given the opportunity to complete take Ukraine five years later. That's their proposal.

>>512843399 (OP)
>So Ukraine has to amend its constitution
But they already did? First they changed their country neutral status to "we aim to join NATO one day" and then they made it illegal to negotiate with Putin. Not just the Russian president, but Putin specifically, look it up

>>512843777
Sorry but they ask too much

>>512843399 (OP)
big one is intel and comms via Starlink, too
cut these off, and they'll be blind and deaf
in other words, yes, US is the main architect of the proxy war and has the means to put an end to it
they just don't want to turn it into a total clusterfuck and save at least some face, that's why they were talking to Russia for half a year

>>512843777
after 2014, due to a coup Russia took back Crimea, so that Russian Black Sea fleet wouldn't get kicked out and host NATO ships (as well as corrected historical injustice, as 60% of people there are ethnic Russians that didn't want to be in Ukraine in early 90s to begin with)
after Feb 2022, they lost Donetsk and Lugansk regions, because Kiev didn't want to fulfill Minsk agreement for 8 years that would grant them autonomy, on top of other things
after Sep 2022, they lost Kherson and Zaporozhye regions, after "Kiev" tricked Russia with March 2022 Istanbul deal
so there is a trend, the more you deceive Russia, the more territories you lose and the worst offer will be next time ... until there won't be Ukraine at all
>My understanding is that Russia wants these territories plus a guarantee that Ukraine will be neutral and not join NATO.
these 4 new regions plus Crimea and denazification and demilitarization of Ukraine
in other words, Ukraine needs to ban Bandera ideology and reduce army, so that there would not be a revanche
I'm also sure that Ukraine will have to be part of Russia's economic zone like it was before 2014 coup

>>512845115
if they wanted to take over Ukraine, they could have done it easily in 2014, when Ukraine did not have contract army at all
by 2022, Ukraine had 200k on contract and hundreds of thousands in reserve that they trained for 8 years
so Russia wanted to solve issues with diplomacy until the last moment, but Kiev and the West were preparing their army to solve its problems in Donbas and Crimea using military

but of course Russia will take over all of Ukraine until there is no threat or a chance of it
there won't be another Minsk 1-2, but a resolution of the problem once and for all

>>512848708
and if Ukraine won't stop fighting or won't agree to Russia's demands, there simply won't be Ukraine

>>512844746
>whitewash its eternal war in the eyes of the most gullible idiots such as (((you))).
what any Russia needs to know is one thing: once against German tanks and armor with a cross came to Kursk

>>512843636
>There has been no peace proposals from r*ssia except of the extremely retarded one where Ukraine would have to give up what r*ssians never captured.
You mean like Versailles taking Alsace-Lorraine despite France having next to no control over the region? If momentum is going agaibst Ukraine than they should offer Russia shit they don't have to persuade them to not just keep pushing.

>>512844746
It’s ok, I don’t think the Ukraine has a choice little nafo faggot

>>512848903
Of course they do, shitskinned subhuman

>>512843399 (OP)
The Ukrainian constitution is just a little piece of trash.

Even if they give up the land, Putin will just wait 10 turns and attack them again

>>512843399 (OP)
Just give away your country and change your constitution so Trump can get a Nobel peace prize

>>512848971
>shitskin
Just say nigger you little nafo fag
Ya turns out all those defenses behind Pokrovsk are full of dead men because Russia has atm breached 18 kms and cut off Dobropillya-Kramatorsk highway
They didn’t use any armor or drones just light infantry walked in behind DsRG scouts

>>512843399 (OP)
just give russia alaska and whole ukraine

>>512848822
Good, I'll see a Hakenkruez fly above the kremlin and all of you forced to scream to the heavens that Adolf Hitler was right.

>>512849460
Yes. You're brown. You're a nigger. You're the color of shit.
>the men are all dead
Not how it works, defense is done with drones
DRGs should barely be considered a breakthrough, it's shitskinned asiatics like you on motorbikes. Like a cavalry breakthrough in WW1.
Cope for me, subhuman nigger.
>le NAFO
You are brown. You'll never be White. You are a shitskinned subhuman.

>>512843852
>pre-lenin free gibs borders
you mean like this, pidor?

>>512848708
Russia was also not prepared for a full scale war in 2014.

>>512849416
He‘s too dumb for the Nobel Peace Prize, his deals are obviously crap. Maybe he should try to get the Nobel Prize for Trumpflation. Most Americans are more worried about the cost of groceries.
And ….Trump is spending $200 million of taxpayers' money to build a golden ballroom.

This is how it will go:
The war continues. The EU delivers the majority of weapons. The US makes a quick buck. China sends thoughts and prayers to Russia. Russia continues to be bled dry.

>>512843636
>r*ssia
>r*ssians

Beltoid scum, pls. Whatever limitrophe you are from - you are next ;)

>>512843399 (OP)
Since the US has said they're not supporting them anymore Ukraine has no reason to listen to Trump.

>>512849755
Nice try, cuntboi.

>>512843777
>Le extremely reasonable proposal is a demand for launch off points for invasion 3.0
Do people really fall for this snit? I'd maybe believe it if they didn't so blatantly ask for positions just forward of that river.

>>512849794
I don't think that would have been a problem against Ukraine in 2014, but more so against the NATO. In 2014 they would have had the majority of Ukraine backing them, including significant parts of their military, but have no advantage in military industrial output and no sanction proofing of their economy, so they would have been a lot harder than these current tickles of sanction packages.

>>512850171
lmao, pidrila conveniently forgets the existence of the UNR (which was recognized by 4 European countries) for 3.5 years before the bolsheviks invaded it and created the Ukrainian SSR in its stead. "lenin's gifts" - is only in your mind, pidor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_People%27s_Republic

>>512850647
so you mean the thing that never controlled all of Ukraine, got created out of the vacuum the germans left behind and said themselves that they see themselves as part of Russia? That one is your grand argument? It was just some unorganized trash fighting on the side of the tsarist whites

But russians tell me sanctions make them stronger. Why would they want less sanctions? I propose that the war continues but with twice the sanctions on Russia!

>>512849583
Ok tourist, I’ll laugh when the kikes in Kiev surrender

>>512851554
>tourist
>posts an xjeeter filename
I've been shitposting on this god forsaken website since 2007 when I was underage
Blow your brains out, brown

>>512851859
/pol/ wasn’t around in 2007 retard

>>512845115
You are a lying faggot
Russia said they could keep a 300,000 man army.

>>512852161
Good thing /pol/ isn't the whole website, retarded fucking shitskinned asiatic nigger

>>512844746
Thats fine Russia will just keep grinding. Do you really believe they give a fuck about some attrition? These are Russians we're talking about.

You think this offer is bad wait till you see the next one

>>512850171
>ruski copes*
Go back a little further you dumb fat nigger

>>512850752
what is this constipation of thoughts and diarrhea of words, pidor?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Brest-Litovsk_(Ukraine%E2%80%93Central_Powers)

>>512851554
>>512852161
You have to go back

>>512843399 (OP)
>>Intel
If the US stops to provide this data, ukr is done.

>>512849755
>Ukraine 1914
Lolwut

>>512852376
>shitskin asiatic nigger
Kike Jew boy zogbot

>>512843636
GREAT RUSSIA will win and youll just be miserable for a few years.

>>512853687
>kike
Wrong, faggot. I am White.
Way to admit that you're some subhuman asiatic and most likely on a VPN. Back to xjeeter, jeet.
Looking forward to the day that a Ukrainian puts some shrapnel in your faggot head and you lay there lying in a pool of your own shitskinned blood or you decide to come over here and take back Alaska to receive a similar fate. Whichever comes first.

>>512845115
>the opportunity to complete take Ukraine five years later.
this the EU media talking point. putin is forever going to be waiting to invade again and then move on to latvia and estonia. this is EU fantasy.

>>512854302
Didn’t read don’t care
/UG/ oldfags stay winning

>>512854463
You can't read because you are brown

>>512849264
kek

>>512843857
>There are some areas which Russia has captured that go beyond these regions, and they would be swapped
Thats what the russians are proposing.

>>512852648
oh, a treaty between a civil war party and a Germany that wanted to focus on the western front, which was absolutely null and void a couple years anyway. you sure proved Ukraine's legitimacy and their vast claims all the way to the Pacific with this one!

>>512848708
If Ukraine surrenders like this, that’ll happen anyway. It isn’t like Russia ever honors its treaties. They’ll just rearm, come up with some excuse, and resume the attacks in a couple years. That’s why the NATO thing is a no go. NATO is the only thing that contains Russian aggression.

>>512850339
Whats the point of a new invasion if they get everything they want from the deal? Just for fun? They did not do that in Georgia

>>512859404
>NATO is the only thing that contains Russian aggression.
Incorrect, NATO has directly caused the russian agression in two countries (Georgia and Ukraine) by trying to get in there and set them up as military bases for the US

>>512853675
that retard completely misrepresented what that map is, there was no Ukraine, it was for the Paris conference in 1919, so he even got the year wrong. it was drawn by the ukrainians that briefly controlled part of the territories to show their ambitions, so that's essentially the maximal demand with 0 basis on any claims in reality. They never controlled most of these territories, included regions with even just 10% ukrainians and nobody took it serious all the way until they got absorbed into the soviet union.
if that guy uses that map to do any claims of ukraine existing and being historic, he's a genuine retard