Thread 512869765

They really do think that the government will always do the right thing because the profit motive doesnt exist for them which is demonstrably untrue.

>>512869765 (OP)
The left unironically believes the existence of profit is proof someone was exploited when in reality it’s proof, in most cases, that wealth was created. They’re retards and have no cultural influence anymore, ignore them.

>>512869961
>that wealth was created.
Wealth hasn't been created since the first day of this fiat money madness, we are all in fact getting poorer.

>>512869765 (OP)
Because a stateless society is impossible and I would rather live in a country where the government at least somewhat listens to the people. If the state just disappeared then that power vacuum would just be filled with corporations which in a sense it already is.

>>512870481
You're stupid and you shouldn't bother yourself with politics. Go find something else to do like mastering the art of gum chewing, or gory suicide.

>>512869765 (OP)
Because "the state" is supposed to, ideally, represent the interests of the people. "The people" are a vague group, but generally a leftist means workers and consumers. The state, government, provides protections for workers and consumers through policy. These protections limit the ability of billionaires and finance to profit more, and their profit isn't just about keeping the lights on, it's about making more profit than you did last quarter, creating a wealth and value siphoning effect that makes conditions worse for workers and consumers to satisfy stock portfolios and finance.

>>512869765 (OP)
Demoralisation. They are doing what they've been trained to do.

>>512869765 (OP)
We dont, that's a strawman in your head. I want white men who work jobs to make more money, no property tax for those with only one house and no taxation for those making under 100k.

Thats it. Thats the 3 things I want.

>>512869765 (OP)
>>512869961
>lefties: give us our tax money back so we can enrich ourselves and our communities
>/pol/tards: muh gubmint in every part muh life
fuck off kikes

>>512869765 (OP)
/pol/ is full of Nazis who are just as bad as Commies.
>>512869895
Leftoids would get their 3 minute cities if the roads were privatized.

Taxation is theft

Allimony is modern slavery

Veganism is racism

Cultures eat meat but not yours, that means we do what you want and kill our cultures for good

>>512871186
Are you talking about nazi Germany?

>>512869765 (OP)
even Adan Smith supported an active state and taxing the rich. And those libertarian fucks worship him like a god

>>512871186
>Taxation is theft
kek, the rich now lots of ways to evade taxation, and still they're the main ones complaining about it. The problem is not taxation, the problems is the rich evading taxes while us suckers have to maintain the state because we don't have connections to fiscal paradises

>>512869765 (OP)
because your conception of leftism is little more than a crude parody

>>512869765 (OP)
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it comes down to this:
A well regulated, functioning government is our only defense against the wealthy just re-inventing feudalism with better PR. Democracy is imperfect, but I would rather live under a system of government where the people have a voice than one where wealth puts you above the law and human suffering only matters if you can find a way to make a buck off of it.
Obviously, I'm not very happy with the current state of the american political system. But that doesn't mean that the problem is unsolvable.
The problem that american government has is that the wealthy have been allowed to evade, and co-opt, the very systems that are supposed to keep them in check. This is bad. But it is not, as it happens, universal. Other countries have managed to avoid this same outcome, which means that there is a path to fixing things here as well. The wealthy have been allowed to corrupt America, but just because it has been allowed to happen in the here in now does not mean their victory is inevitable or irreversible.

I do not care about the federal government being strong for its own sake. I only care about it insomuch as a weak federal government cannot stand up to the rich, while a strong federal government (potentially) can. Whether or not it is WILLING to do so is, unfortunately, another matter. But a weak central government will always, always, always be easy prey.
I'd rather believe that things can get better and vote in the hopes of that direction than simply embrace that things will get worse and wait to lose everything, which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy as a result of my own inaction.

>>512870835
Here's an example for the need of "the state" to force transparency in situations like these. AI data centers and crypto farms are popping up faster than they can be observed and regulated, moving fast and breaking things. Using up resources and lower property values and quality of life with noise pollution. Stressing the power grid that, not just makes power more expensive, it creates a bigger risk for blackouts.

>>512872361
Don't forget that they are building these data centers on cheap land where people don't live (the middle of the desert) BUT they also need a constant supply of clean, fresh water to cool themselves with which depletes millions of gallons of water out of the drinking water supply... in areas where drinking water is already scarce.

AI Data centers are legitimately worse than nuclear power plants in terms of negative impact on an area. At least a nuclear power plant only fucks things up for your if something goes wrong, the AI data center fucks things up for you every day when its going RIGHT.

>>512871908
>all politicans are corrupt!
>lets give politicans ultimate power!

you are kinda dumb you know that?

>>512873301
Communism isn't the answer either, anon, and pretending that the only two options are "the wealthy are living gods beyond reproach and its blasphemy to even suggest otherwise" and "literally stalinism" is asinine.

that guy should be wearing a maga hat

>>512873507
Some day, you'll have to accept that absolutist internet gotcha takes don't survive in the real world and we have to find something that does. You can't use memes as a system of government.

>>512873512
This. It's like we didn't have communism before stock buybacks were legalized or after Nixon created the EPA, but now a functioning government that can actually protect workers, consumers, and anyone living around where they want to open AI data centers, is labeled "communist" by default.

>>512869765 (OP)
I suspect many want the state to ban/remove/eliminate their political opposition instead of cooperation or toleration

>>512873507
how about not turning politicans into a oligarchic class? Almost every single politician currently in power in the western world is a millionarie, has a household name, or has ties with corporations and magnates

>>512874327
Yep. The modern 'leftist' take is unironically to roll tax laws and shit back to how we had things structured *when we were fighting the actual communists*.
We had a 70% tax rate on the rich for most of the cold war. Where did that go?
Somehow, real by-definition conservatism became the position of the left.

>>512874532
There's ways of doing that with things like the Pelosi act, which was supported by dems and opposed by Republicans. You make a great point in that there's obvious vulnerabilities to billionaire coercion, one example being Clarence Thomas loudly announcing they don't make enough money and that he would quit, and then changed his mind following a conservative giving him millions dollar gifts.

>>512873692
But he's right. The government is never the way you want it to be. It's just a childish fantasy that you have and you will live your entire life never, ever seeing the that childish vision realized. Because it is simply impossible.

>>512869958
Communism is a failed ideology, but it still made extremely backwards countries like Russia and China into less backwards countries, with help from the west. A capitalist democracy might not have been fast enough to have been any help against the Axis.

>>512869765 (OP)
i must have missed the part where marx says to "give absolute power to the government." what you're describing is an mkultra creature, created to undermine the opposition to jews

>>512874943
This is something that we see other countries far less prone to, by the way.
For example, we could eliminate a huge chunk of political corruption simply by mandating a limitation on election advertisements and rallies. You can't run any political adds or hold any rallies before 6 weeks before election day, none of this year-and-a-half nonstop political circus bullshit every four years. This dramatically lowers the bar on the financial investment needed to run an election, making elected officials less dependent on major campaign contributors to be able to play, and making it easier for candidates that take a moralistic stance against taking dirty money more able to stand on event footing.

This is by no means the only election or even campaign finance matter that we can improve, but you can see how even this simple change would have major knockon effects. And its hard to see anyone making a legitimate counter-claim for why we need to have political campaign be exclusively under the thumb of the wealthy. No one likes being bombarded with campaign ads, no one is going to argue in good faith that we should be drowned in them for a year before the election.

>>512870169
kek

>>512871908
Exactly.