Thread 512944240

I'm sick and tired of ever increasing electricity prices. Every time I bring up nuclear power to counter the trend I get excommunicated like I'm worse than Hitler. Despite the fact that modern plants are perfectly safe and waste can be largely recycled, most of my countrymen continue to vote against nuclear power. The biggest irony is that we actually DO have a decommissioned plant lying dormant which could power half the country at half the price we are currently paying to France for their juice.

You vill burn ze Russian gas and you vill like it

>>512944240 (OP)
Are you Homer simpson?

>>512944240 (OP)
>Despite the fact that modern plants are perfectly safe
but are they safe enough to survive the brown shits that infest the west?
you just know that eventually they will put a nigger in charge of the nucular power plant and then there will be a meltdown or some other accident.
wind and solar is a lot safer in that regard

>>512944240 (OP)
>Every time I bring up nuclear power to counter the trend I get excommunicated like I'm worse than Hitler.
Good, fuck off. It's a stupid, antiquated technology with net-negative economic incentive.

>>512944345
I wouldn't mind gas if it weren't so damn expensive. +40% thanks to Covid to no fault of our own.

>>512944358
I could be? Who's asking?

False scarcity to keeps shabbos goy on the treadmill chasing the carrot on a stick.

>>512944240 (OP)
Your people are just behind the curve. Even our leftists are no longer anti-nuclear because even they are able to see the failure in Germany. Give them a bit to get their programming from us.

>>512944404
Just because you fuked up doesn’t mean it’s bad for everyone.

>>512944404
Your fucking shit was from the Stone Age and your vaunted nipponese engineers put the back up generators in the basement on the coast. Godzilla isn’t real and nuclear is awesome now. Go cry into your daily rice ration you fucking hikikomori failure.

>>512944240 (OP)
Environmentalists started as anti nuclear hippies.
That continued until the early 00' when the new generation of anti CO2 environmentalists started pissing their panties over that threat. So now every green party in the world is fighting a civil war over priorities. Sadly the old in power hippies are winning.

>>512944422
>Who's asking?
Bart simpson and I want child support.

>>512944240 (OP)
>I get excommunicated like I'm worse than Hitler.
you are hitler!

>>512945042
but Hitler can never be worse than Hitler

>>512944240 (OP)
True

>>512945042
>>512945179
Stop talking about Hitler. This thread is about nuclear power.

>>512944240 (OP)
This is the downside of democracy.
Even at the Universities there are students who are convinced the steam from cooling towers is actually smoke polluting the sky. They think green glowing liquid radioactive goo is being poured into the rivers.

>>512944240 (OP)
>If we get 10 more chernobyl cases then artificial prices will go down!
uh-huh

>>512944426
>False scarcity
/thread

fuck off OP

>>512945363
hello retard, we all just waited for an illiterate dumbass to spew his absurdities

>>512944240 (OP)
>Despite the fact that modern plants are perfectly safe and waste can be largely recycled
Can't build them, can't operate them, don't have the money to fund them, they take 8-40 years to build with even Chinks who are mass producing them averaging a decade.

Unless you're China nuclear is dead

>>512945363
Nuclear energy is the safest and cleanest form of energy production. But i don't need to tell you that, you already know that mr. memeflag kike nose faggot.
i can't wait until we nuke your hometown of Tel Aviv, now that is some nuclear energy i can get behind!!

>>512945546
>worthless drivel
I accept your concession.

>>512945575
>Its the cleanest and safest trust me!
>No dont look at the cases where it wasnt no just trust me!
Piss off boomer

>>512944404
>nuclear is antiquated
>we need more windmills
Preach, brother! I was just telling my buddy the other day we need fewer antiquated vaccines and more leeches in our hospitals.

>>512945574
> 8-40
White people could easily build one in 18 months, if the will was there.

>>512945587
>Chernobyl as a scare
kek

>>512945587
Tell me how many humans really died to Chernobyl, right now. Show me how retarded you are.

>>512944240 (OP)
>every time I bring up meme energy I get rightly mocked

Yeah that's because you haven't figured out something that engineers, economists, investors, and government officials didn't already look into, try, try again, and then try a few more times for good measure.

Its just not cost effective or safe. End of story. I know little boys think
>oooohhhh nuclear! Ooohhhhh strong and manly like atomic bomb ooohhh!
But in the real world it just isnt that great.

>>512945587
Chernobyl was an already outdated flammable graphite moderated reactor, new nuclear power plant designs and technology have advanced greatly with new fail safes, including concrete containment domes and special plugs under the deuterium pools that automatically drain the water if it hits a certain temperature and stops the reaction, preventing meltdowns.

>>512944404
Fukushima was goibg to be a disaster from its very inception.
>Old as fuck nuclear generator tech.
>placed in a location prone too earthquakes and tsunami's.
Of course that shit was going to break. Your guys fucked it up from the begining! But just because you completely botched it doesn't mean the tech should not be persued.

Mass production of standardised modular small reactors (~100MWe), 4m tall perimeter concrete wall, automated armored pistol calibre defensive turret, no on-site personnel, one year refuel/service interval. Sprinkle them on gov land between significant population centers.

>>512944240 (OP)
anyone who talks against Europe going or staying nuclear is a pidor shill
that is all

>>512946226
Most fukushima victims didn't even die from radiation(I think only 1 plant worker died from radiation poisoning), but because of the difficulties of the sudden and poorly managed mass civillian evacuation.

>>512944240 (OP)
you are not allowed to be energy independent or independent in general because of your race anon. did you forget about the holocaust? we can never ever allow your people to have independence and power for the sake of humanity.

>>512945713
>>512945789
>>512945939
Yes thanks for proving my point that I dont need a chernobyl/fukushima/etc case in my backyard waiting to happen so that the artificial electricity prices will maybe go down. Now piss off and die of heart attack.

>>512945939
1. Start up costs
2. Technical expertise required to run and maintain
3. Periodic disposal and replacement of internal structures weakened by radiation
4. Storage of spent nuclear material
5. Proliferation of nuclear bomb making material in other countries especially important considering we almost went to war with Iran over their 'peaceful' nuclear program
6. There is literally not enough uranium to replace the output of energy that fossil fuels give. If we tried we would burn through it in something like 10-20 years
7. Literally meme energy

>>512946226
>>Old as fuck nuclear generator tech
You're boiling water by submerging dangerously radioactive material, it's antiquated by virtue of being nuclear.
>>512945646
Windmills don't make uninhabitable dead zones, nor do they contribute to the nuclear weapons black market.
>>512944404
>media reference
Somebody hasn't played Metal Gear Solid. Also, nuclear costs more money than it generates in value. It sucks even more than it ever did.
>>512944345
Nuclear fuel overwhelmingly comes from Russia.

>>512946716
>leaded pipes the post

the consoomer wants cheaper shit.

the consoomer doesn't want to help create a solution.

the consoomer sits on his ass and complains on the internet.

fucking hell, the future looks bleak.

>>512946716
Boomers are more against nuclear that any younger generation. They are the reason both Russian and China have safer, more efficient and general better reactors.

>>512944404
>antiquated
Humanity seriously needs to get rid of you hobgoblins.

>>512944404
There is no cheaper way to get more power on the grid than to reactivate a still-functional nuclear power plant. Most of the cost of nuclear power is in the construction.

>>512944240 (OP)
You are not worse than Hitler, just unfortunately unfathomably unintelligent (German word). Nuclear power is by far the most expensive energy source, whereas renewable energy + storage technologies have been proved throughout various studies to bring energy prices down. How else can you explain negative energy prices in the scandinavian countries? Look up Fraunhofer energy price comparision.

are you even aware of the costs for one nuclear power plant? People call you rightfully retarded, as even if you are now mad, that you can't pay the energy bill with your beta Bux, to sustain your sex machines energy consumption, a nuclear power plant wouldn't be able to solve that now, but in 10 to 15 years. If you want to force your current government to invest (10 Billion) in building a modern nuclear power plant, (10 Billion in running it) it won't do shit. And 10 Billion in deconstructing it! Importing Solar Power pannels (instantly) for next to nothing will decrease your energy bill.

Apart from that Austria is on a pretty good track when it comes to energy prices, as you have mountains, compared to Germany, which allow you to store very simple energy.

Why am I in the position to call you and all nuclear power advocators here and in every thread I see retarded? Well, I find enjoyment in your suffering and tears, the seething keeps me going. Second, I, unfortunately to your position, have a degree in chemical engineering with focus on energy markets and I have worked in the energy sector for multiple years.

Even if you mouth breathing, room temperature retards believe you can have an opinion on certain topics, where your event horizont is no further away than the farts you emit, I have to tell you that actualy studying these topics and having the ability to calculate for yourself certain options, will grant you the actual ability to talk about these things.

>>512946836
No u, literally all your posts are worthless drivel and an indication that you should be killed for wasting oxygen to beathe and form opinions.

>>512946294
The world uses 17.7 terawatts of energy each year. A nuclear reactor produces 0.001 terawatts of electricity per year and uses 27 tonnes of uranium to produce it. There are ~8 million tonnes of proven uranium reserves in the world.

Do the math. There just isn't enough uranium to meet energy demands for more than a couple of decades at best.

>>512946756
>There is literally not enough uranium to replace the output of energy that fossil fuels give. If we tried we would burn through it in something like 10-20 years
There's also better use for it, such as deep space exploration. That keeps the nuclear waste off-world, too.

>>512946887
Thanks for input boomer. I still dont need a fukushima case in my backyard.

>>512946889
obese zogbot/kike hands wrote this
>>512946890
literally every other form of energy is cheaper you turbojew cumgoblin. see >>512946907

>>512945916
China, for example, builds nuclear reactors at 2.5$/W, which is very cost effective, especially when you take into account the significant costs of grid firming, stabilization and transmission that renewables require. That's why China eventually got over its post-Fukushima reticence of nuclear power and why China's state council has been approving 10-11 new reactors per year for the last few years.

>>512947130
China is also the second largest country in the world and has plenty of space to store all of the waste and furthermore is willing to turn its own land into radioactive wastelands, as they've been doing with other forms of pollution since forever.
Why the fuck would you copy trying to? Are you going to run toddlers over with forklifts now just because you love sucking Mao's shriveled cock so much?

>>512946907
Stfu you stupid fucking faggot.

>>512947081
(1) I was talking about the reactivation of plants, not the construction of new ones

(2) Did you look at the assumptions? They assume a nuclear overnight capex of 6-16€/W for nuclear, even though nuclear reactors are being built for 2-3 €/W. They also assume 9.6% (!!!) discount rate for nuclear.

(3) There's also cost of transmission. Nuclear can usually be built very close to load centers. Renewables are often constrained by weather conditions.

>>512946946
>terawatts as unit of energy
bro you forgot something there, not a great look. Anyway "the world" doesnt mean jack shit. Fuck the world, nobody outside Europe gives a single fuck where their electricity comes from, yet the living standard of Europeans is getting buttfucked to oblivion. France covers 100% of its residential electricity needs with roughly 8k tons of uranium per year. Breeder reactors also have potential for recycling waste. Who knows what could have been setup by now if infinite resources werent poured into fusion permavapourware

>>512946927
Hehe the irony of this post.

>>512947350
Space for storage of nuclear waste is not a problem, the space requirements are tiny. Besides, in the case of the Chinese, they intend to burn the spent fuel in fast neutron reactors. They're already building two 600MW fast neutron reactors, and CNNC recently announced that preliminary design for a new 1200MW fast neutron reactor has been completed.

>>512947957
Quite literally no u.

>>512947995
The irony continues.

>>512947759
>even though nuclear reactors are being built for 2-3 €/W
In fact, China's CNNC builds Hualong One for just 1.9 €/W

https://www.nengyuanjie.net/article/89951.html

>>512946907
Did you look at the assumptions that Frauenhofer used? They assume a capex of 6-16€/W, a discount rate of 9.6%, a 45 year lifespan, and a capacity factor of 71% or lower.

I too could use assumptions based on extreme outlier cases to make any form of energy generation appear excessively expensive

>>512944240 (OP)

>Despite the fact that modern plants are perfectly safe

"The PRAs performed by TEPCO at the Fukushima Daiichi and Fukushima Daini plants predicted a core-damage frequency of about 1 × 10−6 per reactor-year during full-power operations and generally less than that (approximately 1 × 10−7 per reactor-year) during most phases of shutdown."

Once every 100,000 to once every 1,000,000 years event happens after 50 years of operation

"Trust the science"

>>512946294
>100MWe
The history of nuclear power is a history of constantly trying to build bigger reactors, because for nuclear reactors there are huge benefits of scale. Large modular reactors (e.g. ABWR, AP1000) are much more cost-effective than small modular reactors. The only reasons to build small reactors are (a) your local grid is too small to handle a large reactor, or (b) you can't raise enough funding to build a bigger reactor.

>>512946907
Did you look at the assumptions that Fraunhofer used? They assume a capex of 6-16€/W, a discount rate of 9.6%, a 45 year lifespan, and a capacity factor of 71% or lower.

I too could use assumptions based on extreme outlier cases to make any form of energy generation appear excessively expensive

>>512945635
Get shrek’t you inbred jew

>>512947984
This guy knows what he's talking about. There are lots of safe places to store nuclear waste, especially in the US.

>>512949280
Typically we store them on site in perpetuity. I did work adjacent to the former site of a nuke plant, and the casks were still there. Guarded by dudes with automatic weapons and signs saying they will ruin your day if you pass this fence.

>>512944240 (OP)
It doesn't matter how safe the power plants are.
>Mining uranium fucks up environment something fierce.
>Building nuclear power plants makes sense only when you plan to build dozens of them and switch significant parts of your grid to nuclear due to the economy of scale. It would have to be a major project worth hundreds of billions.
>Reactor needs cooling, which raises the temperature of the river that's used as heat exchange, fucking up local wildlife.
>They can only be placed in very specific locations due to the above.
>Lack of education, documentation, competence etc. in the future increases the risk of another melty. No matter how good your safety measures are, human factor (read: incompetency, white, shitskin or otherwise, along with greed) will be an ever bigger point of failure.
>Storage of nuclear waste.
>And last, what is probably the biggest factor, it allows the proliferation of nuclear materials, ergo, potential nuclear weapons, something that goes against interests of various powers.

If I've missed anything else, feel free to add.

>>512949550
Ahem
>>512949216

Retard

>>512944240 (OP)
>Perfectly safe
Against non manmade issues yes, i've yet to see anything withstand human malice and stupidity.
All the more relevant against the backdrop of rising tensions and calls for war.

>>512948835
A microplant is easier to fully automate and conceal (to pacify the plebs). Also building 0.X MV transmission lines costs a fuckton, this way the reactors could be integrated into the existing grid. Of course for some locations a large central plant will be the more reasonable choice, like heavy industry hotspots.

>>512949696
What is this supposed to prove?
>muh deaths per megawatt
Adress any of the points of the above post or fuck off.
But we know you won't. You'll continue kvetching like a retarded niggerfaggot that you are. You are not even a shill. Just a retard.

>>512949550
Nearly all the same arguments can be made against every other form of power

>>512949550
>>Building nuclear power plants makes sense only when you plan to build dozens of them and switch significant parts of your grid to nuclear due to the economy of scale. It would have to be a major project worth hundreds of billions.
Not necessarily. If you only want to build only a few reactors then you can just bring in foreign expertise; there is no need to build up your own nuclear industry from scratch. The Chinese, Russians and South Koreans already have the reactor designs, experienced personnel, heavy forging industry, etc.

>it allows the proliferation of nuclear materials, ergo, potential nuclear weapons
Civilian reactors generally use low-enriched uranium which is useless for nuclear weapons. Theoretically you could extract plutonium from spent fuel and use that for weapons, however that requires extensive processing plants.

>>512944240 (OP)
>Advocating for nuclear power
Bro, you're worse than Hitler.

>>512949550
>Mining uranium fucks up environment something fierce.
Aluminum and lithium grow on trees? You need way more resources to make windmills/solar panels than you need uranium for nuclear plants.
What do they do with decomissioned windmills by the way? (they just bury them because shits not recyclabe)
>Building nuclear power plants makes sense only when you plan to build dozens of them and switch significant parts of your grid to nuclear due to the economy of scale. It would have to be a major project worth hundreds of billions.
Right, tech giants want to set up nuclear power plants (plants, not plant) for just their datacenters but somehow the energy needs for most countries are too low to justify building plants?
>Reactor needs cooling, which raises the temperature of the river that's used as heat exchange, fucking up local wildlife.
And cooling water before releasing it back into a water source is impossible.
>They can only be placed in very specific locations due to the above.
And you can plop down a solar/wind farm in the middle of a city?
The conditions needed for renewable energy are more strict than the condition needed for nuclear plants and nuclear plants take less space
>Lack of education, documentation, competence etc. in the future increases the risk of another melty. No matter how good your safety measures are, human factor (read: incompetency, white, shitskin or otherwise, along with greed) will be an ever bigger point of failure.
Thanks for admitting that the people who promote renewable energy are too retarded to work on anything else
>Storage of nuclear waste.
Storage for decomissioned solar panels and windmills
>And last, what is probably the biggest factor, it allows the proliferation of nuclear materials, ergo, potential nuclear weapons, something that goes against interests of various powers.
And not having reliable power to supply your country is in the interest of any power?

Tldr you are a retard.

>>512947984
Ivan has been running this 800MW fast breeder for over a decade now and has recently broken ground on a next-gen 1200MW fast breeder.

>>512945574
It only takes so long because the government put up so much red tape to discourage Nuclear power.
If we stopped holding it back we could easily build plants cheaper and faster

Shut them up with Thorium.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F92L6F0INYk
So why don't we use Thorium?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AptxNrQpGA4
Can't make nukes with it.

>>512944240 (OP)
>which could power half the country at half the price we are currently paying
Lol
You are really a fool.
If tomorrow they invent a free energy , you will pay even more and they will have even more huge profit.
In capitalism there is nothing that will make the prices to go down.it is against the system.

>>512952017
Indeed, and that 800MW reactor is right now getting rid of americium-241 and neptunium-237 from spent fuel
https://www.rosatom.ru/en/press-centre/news/rosatom-starts-afterburning-of-minor-actinides-in-a-fast-reactor/

>>512947984
>Space for storage of nuclear waste is not a problem,
Space is not real,.boy. If it was they would have already sent nuclear waste to it and go to the moon.
No one and nothing can past through the firmament.

>>512944240 (OP)
>oil majors fear nuke energy
>support greenpeace in its crusade against nuke
>support wind turbine against nuke because it can't works without oil and gas
>fear mongering works because people are stupid
>fear mongering works because because they pump billion on propaganda per years
Nuke never stood a chance in liberal democratic countries. Only strong states can pull it out.

>>512947350
50 years of european nuclear waste are stocked on the equivalent of 2 football fields in France. And most can be reused to produce energy. 50% of waste are medical waste and not related to energy production anyways.
Show me just ONE energy with that little waste. ONE !

>>512944345
it actually is russia's fault that europe largely abandoned nukes. they funded all the anti nuclear groups beginning in the 80s. 'green' politicians are all useful idiots for the vatniggers.

>>512944240 (OP)
>>512946823
Nuclear power hydrogen?

https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/pink-hydrogen-from-nuclear-power-fuels-industrial-decarbonization/8572279/

>>512944240 (OP)
Nuclear is basically the most expensive way of making power. If you care about price then you definitely shouldn't be speaking about nuclear.

>>512944367
This. I believe this is the real reason for Germany getting out of nuclear. You can't run that shit safely with Turks and Somalis and all this riffraff. And even the German population is getting dumber on average.

>>512946907
>How else can you explain negative energy prices in the scandinavian countries?
They have negative enegry prices? I get paid to use electricity? Or do you want to say there is some Enron style booking fraud that Vattenfall and Co. use to line their pockets even more? Only thing that has fucked us is when they started "trading" electricity. Fuck merkel and her kikes.

>>512953378
It makes little sense to start thinking about using nuclear for hydrogen production before you have satisfied the industrial need for process heat and process steam.

Using electrolysis to produce hydrogen using electricity from a nuclear plant seems quite inefficient. For a standard pressurized water reactor, the thermal efficiency is about 1/3, meaning that the electrical output is only about 1/3 of the thermal output. To increase the thermal efficiency, you would have to increase coolant temperature, but that is not possible in a pressurized water reactor, because you would exceed the triple point of water. A nuclear reactor is best used for thermal applications, which allow you to use the whole output without conversion loss.

China's INET has talked about designing a variant of their high-temperature helium-cooled graphite-moderated reactor for hydrogen production, however they plan to do by raising the coolant temperature from 750C to 950C and using the sulfur-iodine thermochemical cycle, with no need to generate electricity as an intermediate step. I believe the Japanese have experimented with this concept already.

>>512948323
total cost of operation and maintenance > total lifetime energy value

>>512953378
It makes little sense to start thinking about using nuclear for hydrogen production before you have satisfied the industrial need for process heat and process steam.

For a standard pressurized water reactor, the thermal efficiency is about 1/3, meaning that the electrical output is only about 1/3 of the thermal output. To increase the thermal efficiency, you would have to increase coolant temperature, but that is not possible in a pressurized water reactor, because you would exceed the triple point of water. A nuclear reactor is best used for thermal applications, which allow you to use the whole output without conversion loss, so that is where you should start if you want to decarbonize industry. The Chinese, for example, are already in the process of doing this. For example, the Lianyungang petrochemical plant partly gets process steam from the nearby Tianwen NPP. They are building an entire 6-unit NPP at Xuwei whose main task will be to generate process steam and heat for nearby industry.

China's INET has talked about designing a variant of their high-temperature helium-cooled graphite-moderated reactor for hydrogen production, however they plan to do by raising the coolant temperature from 750C to 950C and using the sulfur-iodine thermochemical cycle, with no need to generate electricity as an intermediate step. I believe the Japanese have experimented with this concept already.

>>512944240 (OP)
>I'm sick and tired of ever increasing electricity prices. Every time I bring up nuclear power to counter the trend

>>512944658
What exactly does this person propose? What's a source of energy that's clean and will also guillotine rich people for us?

>>512954890
It seems that the people who have the ability to build cheap nuclear power plants disagree with your assessment

Nuclear power is notorious for up-front capex being the dominant cost, most certainly so on a present-value basis. But I guess that if you only build just 1-2 reactors per plant, impose nuclear-specific punitive taxesand fees as some countries have done, and have extremely autistic rules about decommissioning funds and waste management, then the other costs might start to rival up-front capex

>>512945574
Chinese companies can build a Hualong One or CAP reactor in about 5 years from FCD to grid connection. Of course, there is a lead time before FCD can happen, and this is several years.

In the 1990s, GE/Hitachi/Toshiba built the ABWR in Japan in just 4 years

>>512944240 (OP)
How would a technology with a 20 year lead time help with current electricity prices?

>>512954915
Trust the greenest cheap plan in small reactor.

>>512955665
Buy used solar panels and a battery -> You now owe Schlomo Goldberg less money every month.

>>512944240 (OP)
not my problem

>>512957355
By starting the process 20 years ago, I guess. Or by bringing in foreign companies who can deliver the project in 10 years, starting 10 years ago

>>512944404
>>512947081
>permit me to call this product "expensive" when we all know the cost is intentional, imposed by regulations that were overkill 40 years ago and absurd overkill now. I will now preemptively call you a "turbojew cumgoblin"
>also, RUSSIA
people think they can pay indians to call me a turbojew cumgoblin and it'll never come back to them
first democrats now oil companies
what a time to be alive

>>512956914
>Look at the fastest time ever we could totally do this in that time with nobody with any experience in the specific field and a massive deficit in the general field.

We don't have enough construction workers for current infrastructure and we habe no construction workers experienced in working on nuclear plants.

>>512962110
You could bring in the South Koreans to get you started. With their help, the UAE built a 5.6GW NPP with the first reactor being commissioned 10 years from contract signing. The cost numbers I find are conflicting, however it was less than 6 $/W, and the price would likely fall for additional units.

You likely have to enlist the South Koreans for the heavy forgings anyway; the reactor vessels and steam generators for Vogtle 3 & 4 were built in South Korea

More importantly, you have to look at it in the long term. Data center demand is likely going to keep ramping up for many years. Eventually your shale basins are going to run out of tier one gas prospects, and unless your engineers can keep coming up with new revolutionary extraction methods you have to eventually find new energy sources to maintain competitive energy prices. So you might as well begin the training of an enlarged nuclear construction workforce today.