Thread 513010137

The fingers are pointing wildly at the WSJ - who is to blame for Ukraine’s embarrassing defeat? Certainly not NATO tactics and doctrine - how dare you!

https://archive.is/Da1ze

From the comments:
>Two article flaws:

>The idea that Ukraine is failing because of instilled Soviet military thinking. Maybe, to a limited degree, but the Soviet Union fell over 30 years ago so it is a stretch to blame it on Soviet tactics. Ukraine has had NATO trainers at all levels for years. Seems like a failure of NATO training if the Soviet training still holds after 30 years.

>This is a deflection to shield NATO and the US military officials from their failures. NATO/US officers have been actively assisting and planning operations for Ukraine for years, including the failed 2023 counter-offensive. That was NATO planned and was a failure because it didn't accept the reality on the ground. Charging an entrenched enemy who also has air and artillery superiority in daylight without air support is a NATO planning failure.

>Ukrainian forces have also been complaining about unrealistic NATO tactical training for over a year. Ukraine and Russia have adapted to the new battlefield environment. NATO and US doctrine are still lagging.

>The Ukrainians were more nimble in 2022 compared to the Russians. Partially true but they also had a significant numerical advantage. The Russians invaded with 190,000 man force using a plan based on bad assumptions. The Ukrainians had over 250,000 trained and motivated soldiers.

>When Ukraine stopped for over 6 months after the 2022 counteroffensive, they lost the initiative and the numerical advantage. That is when the war was lost. The rest is inevitable.

How many more weeks until the three day special military operation is over?

>>513010226
And in response:
>this man is spittin the truth

>It is "blame game" time. Blame Obama, blame Biden, blame EU, blame Trump, but we can't blame "NATO tactics" because that means all 32 countries now have training that will fail vs. Russia.

>retired US Army officer. I served in NATO nations for five years during the Cold War. I know something about
"NATO tactics."
>While in West Germany, a fellow officer and friend went on a joint Field Training Exercise (FTX) as an observer with the German and Danish armies. When he returned, l asked him how it went. He said, “Back when I was in college, my fraternity called that a 'kegger'."

They're basically trying to say without saying that they're dumb Slavs and so can't adapt to high IQ Western European tactics. Boomers continuing to reach ever greater heights of self-parody in that they retain the eye-rollingly archaic racism of like a 19th century baron measuring Galician skull shapes while simultaneously championing the delusional antiracism of seeing nothing wrong with importing millions of niggers and pajeets as long as it's "good for the economy". If this was in a book the author would write it out for being an obvious plot hole, they are beyond the capability of satire to even exaggerate

>>513010226
I bet the top brass started their careers in soviet times and not like the military (which tend to be incredibly traditionalist) immediately changed its course.

>>513010963
> they're dumb Slavs and so can't adapt to high IQ Western European tactics

I suppose it would be different if both countries were bombing Gaza.

>>513010963
Well said

Ironically, the main cause of Ukraine losing may well be that they listened to NATO.

In particular, Brits and Americans encouraged them to do suicidal missions, based on their own commando fetishism.

>>513010137 (OP)
ironically during the counteroink when they stopped doing NATO tactics of just bunching up stuff and sending it to the slaughter, and went back to their own tried and proved tactics they were much more successful
Daily reminder that the German instructor answer to deal with minefields was to "drive around" them

NATO command, during the counteroink, kept insisting on massing up in one spot and striking there. webm related is how NATO wargamed the counteroink lmao. NATO high command actually thought, and probably still thinks, they can do schwerpunkt in a modern battlefield filled with fpv drones, spotting drones, satelittes, helicopters....

>>513010273
how many more until russia stop retreating?

>>513015338
>Counteroink
You are so terminally invested into this war on one side that you can't be considered a valuable source of information sorry.

>>513010137 (OP)
>Ukraine’s embarrassing defeat?
What the fuck are you talking about you imbecile? Vatniks should be fucking gassed.

>>513015434
strange that you dont post this about the obviously mentally deranged pro-ukraine / anti-russia posters and clearly shillls from uhg

>>513010137 (OP)
It's not even clear to me where the meme about NATO tactics came from, and even more so about their success, when it's just an alliance of losers.

>>513010137 (OP)
>nimble army
Ah, yes, nimble. Scrappy. Underdog.
Just how you want to describe your army, surely.
I bet they like to describe the russians as sluggish and lumbering.

>>513010226
>motivated ukrainians

>>513010226
>without air support
THATS WHY NATO CAN STEAMROLL R*SSIA ANY TIME IT WANTS

UKRAINE IS NOT NATO
NATO IS NATO

>>513016755
NATO's supreme track record of... patrolling the desert?