Thread 513114672

Russia have barely even scratched the Fortress Belt of Ukraine. They haven't even been in proper urban combat (i.e. 100,000+ pop cities) for years at this point.

This whole 'collapse' was literally over some guys who YOLOed into some fields with motorbikes. Russia haven't taken anything serious since the beginning. Every '''gain''' has been mindblowingly expensive.

>>513114672 (OP)
Shh, you'll upset the bots, shills, and 80 IQ maggats.

>>513114807
Always said from the beginning that Kramatorsk, Slavyansk, and Konstantinyivka are the keys to this war.
When they fall, Ukraine is fucked. Until then, Russia are just meatgrinding themselves into controlled retreats. The progress has been ogre.

Ukraine is losing men faster and has less.

>>513114672 (OP)
What happens if they go around?

>>513114672 (OP)
no need.
seems like shitting artillery shells on drones on infantry in that region was enough to force the west into peace talks

>muh Fortress belt!
/thread

>>513115191
This is what's happening, very very slowly. Reckon Izyum needs to be retaken first, for Russia to truly pile on the pressure here.


>>513115185
Maybe, maybe not. The fact is, these 3 cities have been the 'capital' of Ukraine's efforts since little green men popped up. They haven't even been scratched yet.
They're proper fight to the death tier cities. Bakhmut and Chasiv Yar were only stepping stones, which came at great cost for Russia.

>>513115556
Considering how slow everything is going our dudes clearly want to win this not by taking clay but by exhausting the country and letting it crumble.

>>513115658
The holhols feel the same way, and Russia is feeding into that strategy so much better. You should go work at the drone factory instead of make posts.

>>513116664
Spastic trannies get raped pretty badly in the Russian military. Far easier for his grandmother (parents are dead due to alcoholism/gangsterism/AIDS) to hide him in the basement with her potatoes.

>>513114672 (OP)
>Every '''gain''' has been mindblowingly expensive.
and yet it's the hohols who beg for money and not the other way around

>>513116804
rich coming from a rape victim of fucking jeets

>>513114672 (OP)
Could you imagine trying to push their current dysgenic contract bullet catchers into urban combat? hahaha whoa.

>>513116804
>Spastic trannies get raped pretty badly in the Russian military.
Everyone gets raped in the Russian military.

>>513117024
>Ukraine’s military spending in 2024 increased by 2.9% compared to 2023 and reached US$64.7 billion. This is equivalent to 43% of Russia’s military spending and 54% of Ukraine’s total government expenditure.

If Ukraine hadn't spent $200bil and had lost Kyiv, Kharkiv Zapo, Dnipro, etc, that would've been incredibly bad value.

If Russia hadn't spent $400bil and hadn't gained Bakhmut and Chasiv Yar, it would've been incredibly good value.

>>513115191
That's exactly what they're trying to do to the south, very slowly.
The challenge is that this terrain is much more difficult to conduct large-scale operations in. A lack of major roads limits logistical throughput, which limits the pace of operations, the size of ground forces that can be sustained in high-intensity combat at once, and the volume of artillery fire.

Within the urbanized areas, operations could be carried out year-round with greater intensity, more firepower and larger numbers, as well as much more rapid exploitation of any successes. That's why those areas are so heavily fortified. In muddy countryside they must grind through open fields from treeline to treeline, have to pause twice a year for the muddy seasons and need to stockpile supplies between operations because they can't move enough through in real time. The result is glacial progress at enormous cost, much of Russia's advantage in numbers and firepower being attenuated by logistical limitations, and the inability to quickly exploit success when and where it's found. That means just more slow grind, pause, slow grind, pause, slow grind, pause.

The slowness of the grind is not intentional nor by design, it's imposed on them by the limitations of the terrain, which they are forced to operate in because the alternative is a frontal attack on the fortress belt.

>>513114672 (OP)
Are you losers really still doing this? Kek!
I know they're still paying you, but it's over, any retard, even your father, can see this.
Must suck to be a shitskin

>>513115082
Lowl. Didn't you all say the same about all those other cities, though? they were then taken over, and nothing happened.

>>513114672 (OP)
they will simply go around and choke off their supplies until the garrison flee in disarray

>>513117699
These three cities have always been at the front of operations. You surely know this, right? They've been fortiied for 10 years.

After this 'belt', the land starts to flatten out, and you can yolo into Zapo or Dnipro without much in your way.

>>513117670
Doing what? You could copy and paste your comment into any thread, thus it's bot-tier content, and an absolute disgrace.

>>513116664
why do you think the russians are losing more men than the ukraine?

>>513118056
Because they're the ones on the offensive in a trench warfare situation, obviously.

>>513118205
okay but they have a 10:1 advantage in artillery, an air force that runs hundreds of sorties daily bombing these trenches into dust, more drones, and more infantry. trenches are great, and offensive actions are hard, but when you have a fire-power overmatch like that you actually don't take more losses

>>513118013
Yeah, but what about all those other cities you said were so important? They clearly weren't.

>>513117543
75 + 84 + 140 = 299$ bln as of 2022 -2024
ukraine aid 380$ bln as of march 2024
sorry but math says you lying

>>513114672 (OP)
And yet every day Ukraine becomes smaller and Russia grows larger. Permanently.

Everything else is cope.

>>513118778
Compare like for like.

>>513119012
i did compared and numbers are like this
300 bln of military spending for russia 2022-31 december 2024
380$ bln in aid for ukraine from 2022 -march 2024
so if you think math is wrong so be it
cause there is no point arguing with someone who says
300>380

>>513118772
Which cities did I say were important?

I'm curious, which cities do you believe are of the biggest strategic important for Ukraine right now?

>>513119281
Why not compare military spending to military spending?
Where do you think the money in Ukraine's spending is coming from?

Aid goes towards things other than military, just as lost revenues for Russia don't impact their military spending figures (directly). You know this

>>513118680
bro, if the defending side in trench warfare suffers more casualties than the attacking side...why do they dig the trenches in the first place? use your fucking brain

>>513119281
Russia gets 10x the equipment compared to the dollar though
>155,mm nato shell: 6000$
>153,mm russian shell: 600$

>>513118056
Considering the amount of time the war has been going, the pace of operations as indicated by open-source intelligence, and the number of russian losses that have been visually confirmed with reliable photographic or video evidence, if Ukraine was sustaining an attrition rate equal or greater than the proven amount of russian losses, they would have exceeded their capacity for sustainment and collapsed more than a year ago.

The simple fact that they are still in the war holding a stable front that involves much of the original fortifications from 2022 confirms that their losses cannot be above a specific threshold, otherwise the present situation would not be possible. We don't need to know specific ukrainian casualty figures to know that it's still below this threshold, whereas both open source and various national intelligence sources corroborate a needlessly high russian casualty rate due to poor training, ineffective command and tactics which have struggled throughout the war to adapt to the realities of the drone-saturated battlefield.

If Russia COULD produce results quicker or inflict higher casualties, they would do so. We saw this briefly last year when the use of glidebombs produced conditions favourable to Russia and Ukraine lost ground rapidly. Then countermeasures were developed, the impact of glide bombs diminished and the pace of operations slowed back to a crawl. When conditions for rapid success are present, Russia pursues rapid success. When those conditions are absent, there is no rapid success. This precedent demonstrates that the overall pace of the war isn't a product of a deliberate russian strategy to maximize enemy casualties and deplete their fighting strength, but a response to the realities of a battlefield in which Russia cannot reliably produce the conditions for success without considerable time and great cost.

>>513119690
You are a massive faggot
Spew your nonsence elsewhere

>>513119499
well you said numbers out of your ass not me
>If Russia hadn't spent $400bil and hadn't gained Bakhmut and Chasiv Yar, it would've been incredibly good value.
i just said real numbers out of real stats which are easily to google
if you want to blame someone blame math it doesn't lie tho

>>513119625
Hello VPN pidor. Here in America, the dollar sign goes before the number.

>>513115185
>14:1

>>513114672 (OP)
its really funny seeing all these cope threads now that russia had a breakthrough on the front

Russia occupies 20% of Ukraine. Under Zelensky's stewardship the country of Ukraine has been destroyed.

>>513119987
hahaha brutal

>>513120195
Why do you reject the legitimacy of the Russian annexations?
>>513120143
lunch special?

Either ukraine gives them up in a deal, or russia takes it by force. Either way its over.

>>513119987
Wow
You totally exposed me!
Sorry faggot
Dispute my facts
Oh wait you cant

You discord tranny faggots are not doing well today

>>513120264
If Russia could take what it wanted by force, the negotiations would be unnecessary.

>>513114672 (OP)
>They haven't even been in proper urban combat (i.e. 100,000+ pop cities) for years at this point.
modern mout fighting is so ridiculous that taking a city by direct force seems hardly worth it.

>>513121192
Gonna be a loooooooooooong way round Slavyansk, then. Surely only achievable with Izyum falling first.

>>513120258
The Russian annexations of Ukrainian territory are a point of fact. The Russian Army controls the land they occupy and Vladimir Putin , the President of Russia, has stated that this land is now Russian territory.
What westerners accept or reject does not change the facts.

>>513121497
>The Russian annexations of Ukrainian territory are a point of fact.
Then why do you say that Russia controls 20% of Ukraine?

>>513121565
Because Russia controls 20% of Ukraine.

>>513121661
So you reject the annexations then?

>>513121320
probably I guess. I havent followed this shit in years. Im just glad im not there the combination of barren fields and shit cities seems like absolute hell to fight in.

>muh Fortress Cities
lmao reeking even harder of late 1944 Nazi Germany
this is a war of attrition and we can CLEARLY see Ukraine is losing it as their units are drained of manpower and they’re forced to mobilise people at gunpoint, plus they are losing ground all the time
meanwhile there are no such signs of exhaustion on Russian side
even fucking Ukrainians admit this, seriously, only people who STILL parrot this moronic narrative are butthurt belt diaspora and NAFO

>>513121711
The annexations are a matter of simple fact. What you accept or reject matters no more to the truth . If you say you reject the notion that 2+2=4 it does not change the fact that 2+2=4.

>>513121832
Okay well Russia doesn't control 20% of Ukraine if the annexations are fact.

>>513121895
In time when it is 25% of Ukraine you can continue to balance your argument upon semantic games.

>>513121813
Then why haven't Russia directly attacked the 3 cities which have been at the centre of the war effort since 2014?

Of course there's manpower issues, nobody's denying this. However, the fact of the matter is, if these 3 cities are standing, Ukraine will continue fighting. They've spent 10 years defending this, and this is where the hardcore soldiers will do their last stand.

>>513121990
>semantic
*Semitic
his nose is poking through my screen, that’s how Jewish this shithead is lmao

>>513121990
There's no need for you to get upset. I was just clarifying a basic point. Why do you reject the legitimacy of the annexations?

>>513122099
The annexations are a matter of fact.

>>513119569
Try not to take lots of casualties under 50+ airstrikes with hundreds kilos of explosives, daily.

>>513122201
Then why aren't they?
>>513122230
And to such little effect.

>>513121184
it is the ukraine, europe and trump who are begging for negotiations. russia is showing up out of politeness

>>513122023
>why is Russia trying to attrit Ukrainian forces in more-or-less open terrain instead of staging a costly and quick push to seize random cities
nigger you literally can’t grasp what their goals in this conflict are or the strategy they’re employing
you just created your own sandbox where you live out fantasies with

I’ll enlighten you: Russian goals aren’t territorial in practice
their goal is primarily to keep NATO and EU out of Ukraine, and to demolish Ukrainian statehood, potentially appointing their puppet regime there

for such goals, they don’t need to mobilise shitload of men, waste shitload of resources, aim to quickly seize terrain, anything like that

they tried quick blow early on but that failed as Ukraine mobilised and West backed them, so they switched to a safer and more profitable strategy

they just need to economically wage war, low speed, in order to tire Ukraine and West out

in this sense, this war is OVER in terms of outcome
at this pace Russia won’t run out of money, men, tanks, guns, potatoes, whatever, and Ukraine and West can do nothing to increase the pace

just start obsessing over something else, as this outcome you imagine is impossible and based on complete misunderstanding of this conflict and fine details of it

>>513122023
why should they attack these mutually supporting fortified urban areas head on? what's the point?

>>513122624
Russia is showing up because Xi ordered it. He's not taking more tariffs just to get cheap Russian oil.

>>513122588
what makes you think it's 'to such little effect'? you must have access to information from the upper echelons of command in the ukraine

>>513122819
wow, xi told you this personally? my guy you must be in tight with the chinese communist party

>>513122588
>And to such little effect.
Yes, effect is so little what country with permanent, never ending mobilization, basically free meat, has critical manpower shortages against volunteer only army.

https://files.catbox.moe/p6dr08.mp4

>>513122901
The lack of gains
>>513122984
Xi has been shadow deposed and isn't talking to anyone much these days, same as Jack Ma isn't.

>>513123060
I think it's great Russia uses FABs to turn all the cities it annexed into rubble.

>>513123127
>unable to refute facts turns to impotent seething with extreme saltiness
I accept you concession. And I do it with great pleasure.

>>513123409
Russia will be a great superpower again once it takes the rubble of Kramatorsk for sure.

>>513123127
Everything annexed is a buffer area, the borderland if you will

>>513122630
You're employing the same fallacy. The existence of these 3 cities - connected to the rest of the country via highways - make it very expensive for Russia to be in the area, and cheaper for Ukraine to operate.

If Ukraine (and allies) are happy with the cost that Russia are paying to advance, this war will continue. None of us are privy to this information, naturally. Russia also don't have unlimited resources.

>Clay isn't important
Holding strategic land is the only way to reduce the cost of your presence. If you're sitting in expensive land, you'll be draining resources at a faster rate than your opponents.
On the flip side, if you don't keep up the presure you risk losing land, which makes everything more expensive.

Ukraine have 0 reason to capitulate while they have these cities. It's always been the case.

>>513123547
Well it will never be rebuilt for sure. There's no amount of dead Russians that are too much to create a buffer zone of rubble to protect them from weak Ukraine.

>>513114672 (OP)
Big if true. Keep us posted.

>>513115185
Ukraine has enough birthrate to cover all losses and more

>>513123083
>nogainz
vidrel
>xi xi xi
I don't understand what your speculation about xi and china has to do with the war in the ukraine

>>513114672 (OP)
> the Fortress Belt of Ukraine
Their "Maginot Line", kek

>>513123857
k

>>513123635
There's unlimited Indians and Chinese who will be happy to rush in and build something.

Will be difficult for a poor Ukraine to neighbour a prospering Donbas populated by an Asian mystery meat population. This is the ultimate buffer zone for Russia, as they get the chance to cause economic havoc on Europe.

>>513124016
There's certain 'critical stratgic points' in the country though. I'd imagine that 12.5% is a portal to 25%, etc.Ukraine becomes fucking FLAT at a certain point in the east. You could ride tanks around all day for fun.

The same thing will happen at 35%, too, if they manage to significantly recross the Dnipro.

>>513124016
i don't know if you're bad faith or simply stupid. how much of germany did the french, british, and americans control when they defeated germany in ww1? did they have to go all the way to berlin?

>>513124151
Why aren't russians happy to rush in and build something in their own country?
>>513124323
You were the one talking about gainz honey.

>>513123883
Where's the 'belgium' which Russia are going to exploit this time? Or are you just throwing around buzzwords with no thought?

>>513117860
There's no way to besiege that shit without being pureed from the west

>>513114672 (OP)
What level of MI6 cope is this?
If that was real, Ukraine would be negotiating from a position of strength instead of constantly screeching when the Bank of England might not get to be the central lender for Ukraine.

>>513125267
His point was wars of attrition are measured in losses

>>513126456
Nobody's negotiating from a position of strength here apart from China in the background. Everybody's desperate to end shit, but there's no realistic outcome available. It hasn't reached catastrophic for any side yet.

Though I am curious what makes you think that these 3 cities aren't incredibly important in the war, and what has changed in this regard since 2014.

>>513126456
it's just another butthurt ESL

>>513114672 (OP)
tell that to the CPC as they took over China

>>513126751
>1pbtip
>generic shitposting
>generic memeposting
You offer zero. You're absolute trash, just like the niggers and indians you claim to make fun of. Sad.
I'd rather a Russian victory than faggots like you being allowed to coexist with me.

>>513126224
sure thing bud
>>513125267
you are a fucking nigger
>>513123083
>>513123083
you mention gains here first you fucking nigger. so far it's the only metric you've cited as progress in this war because you're a niggerbrained retard

>>513126922
thanks for the (you)

>>513115191
the same thing that happened when an invading army navigated around a citadel instead of taking it head on.

>a new retarder memeword every week for the past 3 years
>it's totally organic posting chud!

I JUST CARE ABOUT STINKY, WHAT?S IT?S STATUS?

>>513126960
lmao! 9.5/10 seethe

>>513127122
14:1 barely lasted a week

>>513115185
Fewer

>>513123551
>Russia also don't have unlimited resources.
What a retarded pseudo-argument is that? Of course Russia doesn't have unlimited resources. Nobody has. What brought you to the idiotic idea that a Russian victory requires unlimited resources?

>>513123060
>volunteer only

>>513127749
pretending to be stupid wrong win the war for the ukraine. if you're so confident you should sign up
https://www.ildu.com.ua/
lucky for you they still take untrained trench meat

>>513128000
>april 2022

>>513115185
Sure buddy. I'm extremely convinced that the side that is sitting in concrete bunkers is losing more men, than the side that is charging over open fields into mines and drone killing fields.

>>513126732
What level of MI5 cope is this?
xD
The Eurozone is still spending billions on Russian oil.
So sad that year three did not make the EU completely independent of Russian fossil fuels considering they have one of the richest Fields up in the baltics.

>>513117376
wait till you find out what happens in the US navy

>>513114672 (OP)
>ISW
That's the grift run by Nuland's sister right?

>>513128500
bunkers and trenches are lovely i'm sure. but they're not much good when you get 500, 1500, 3000 kilos of airborne explosives dropped on your head while you're in them

>>513129300
I know, you were larping as an American sailor in the other thread too pidor.