Thread 513291292

Here's an elephant in the room everybody seems to ignore:
Vladimir Zelenskiy is no longer the president of Ukraine since May 20 2024. The Rada, that is Ukrainian parliament, cannot extend the tenure of a ruling president even in wartime. It's doing it now but has no legal mandate to do so, according to the Constitution.
Ergo, Zelenskiy's signature is worth fuck all from a legal perspective. Yes sure, people can pretend he's the president even now, but extreme circumstances do not allow to circumvent the existing law. It also means that whoever comes after can safely throw any peace agreement signed by Zelesnkiy in the trash, and knowing Ukrainians, this is what they'll do.
So for how long this game of pretend that Zelenskiy matters will go on? I know he's a stooge of globohomos so they'll entertain him, but clearly that man is unfit to sign any document.

>>513291292 (OP)
If he's such a fuck up how is Russia STILL somehow unable to make any serious territorial gains?

>>513291292 (OP)
Hey Russiabot, how about withdrawing completely and unconditionally from Ukranian territory so Zelenskiy no longer has an excuse to not hold elections?

>>513291459
Irrelevant to the question
>>513291466
The law is a not a matter of convenient excuses. They can be interpreted only one way.

>>513291292 (OP)
You can have a referendum to give him the right to sign.

>>513291546
>Irrelevant to the question
Not really since it hinges upon the premise that Zelenskyy is incompetent

>>513291657
Don't need to. In the absence of a legitimate president, like it is now, the Rada holds the highest power in the country. They can cede land, amend constitution or sign a peace deal. But Zelesnkiy cannot do any of that, but everyone pretends he does for some strange reason.
>>513291728
Competence of Zelenskiy or whoever is completely irrelevant to the question as well, which is about law and legalities. Do they teach to read in the US?

that's why they keep him around, because either way they can either deny his legitimacy or support it depending on what they need

but we can ask for rada chairman signature which is valid in all cases

He's going to have to die. You know it. We know it. He knows it. It's just a question of who is going to get sick of his shit first and Gaddafi him.

>>513291818
Not Rada's head's signature, but ratification of a document through parliamentary voting. This is what currently holds water.

>>513291292 (OP)
TL;DR
Zelensky is a Jew.

>>513291292 (OP)
dont care, total hohol death+ russian empire back

>>513291466
>Hey Russia, how about just giving up because we're losing?

what an organic thread full of geuinely concooooooooooooorned sirs

>>513292025
>>513292003
idiocracy strikes again

>>513291657
zelensky is on a tight rope - he pushed too far and is now expendable by all sides. he could have and should have easily walked away years ago and been living in luxury. kind of a special kind of stupid.

>>513291292 (OP)
putin is president since forever. when he leaves?

>>513292168
When another one is voted in?

>>513291888
Afaik the rada leader becomes de facto president after the regular president's 5 year term expires. However all this discussion is moot, Ukraine pledged to be neutral in their constitution regarding any military alliance - and look what happens today.

>>513291292 (OP)
Article 83
>In the event that the term of authority of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine expires while martial law or a state of emergency is in effect, its authority is extended until the day of the first meeting of the first session of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine , elected after the cancellation of martial law or of the state of emergency.
But it has no provision for the president. The general postponing of elections comes from the martial law act. I'm not sure how Ukraine's law handles this one specific law and what was it's quorum (some european countries allow for laws passed with 2/3rds majority to have the same standing as an ammendment), but even it is infraconstitutional, it's not that much of a stretch to concede an injunction of article 83 to the presidency given the circunstances.

>>513292480
is it true that international agreements would become less valuable and enforceable as multipolarity settles in
however treating Zelenskiy as anyone but nobody spells immediate trouble
it is a dangerous game pretend which opens Russia to any kind of legal opportunism from Ukraine

>>513292979
The truth is, Ukraine's law were badly written for a case of a foreign invasion. They can postpone the elections, but can't prolong the term of the acting president. But I didn't write those laws, and according to them, Zelenskiy is a nobody since may 20 2025.

>>513292168
>Putin's president since forever

Legally.

>>513291292 (OP)
>The Rada, that is Ukrainian parliament, cannot extend the tenure
kek, pidor retard

>>513291292 (OP)
russia hasn't had a president since 2012, maybe fix your own house?

>>513293351
The laws were written by retards indeed, which leads us to this conundrum.

>>513291802
Cope.

>>513293627
cope with what?

>>513293400
The conundrum is that you have 1 million casualties for a land that you got when you only had 5k casualties, you have 2 choices you lose the war with 1 million now or you lose the war with 2 million casualties later and worse economy, there is nothing you can do to win, so what do you pick?

>>513293400
>conundrum
there's no conundrum, fuck off from Ukraine and everything will be fine, you filthy pidor.

>>513293741
>>513293765
straying very offtopic
don't want to discuss legalities?

>>513292480
>Ukraine pledged to be neutral in their constitution regarding any military alliance - and look what happens today.
Thats not quite true. They agreed to that via an international treaty, but they constitution says:
Art. 9.
-International treaties that are in force, agreed to be binding by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, are part of the national legislation of Ukraine.
-The conclusion of international treaties that contravene the Constitution of Ukraine is possible only after introducing relevant amendments to the Constitution of Ukraine.
And the only provision regarding international policy is:
>Art. 18. The foreign political activity of Ukraine is aimed at ensuring its national interests and security by maintaining peaceful and mutually beneficial co-operation with members of the international community, according to generally acknowledged principles and norms of international law.
So they were never constitutionally bound to neutrality. Only legally. And as such, they could formally denounce the treaty with the consent of the parlament with a simple majority.
>>513293129
Absolutely. But that's why the Constitutional Court exists. No constitution in the world is perfect, they all need to be interpreted and complemented. And if the court oversteps, the parlament slaps them. In this case, if the constitutional court has found that the art. 83 applies to the president and the Rada agreed, there's no issue of legality. But he really is at the mercy of the parlament at this point.

>>513292096
The Cohen brothers are Jewish.

>>513293741
>there is nothing you can do to win
>half of ukranny population leaves
>10% of the remaining ukranny population dies
Nigga that’s a gigawin

>>513293021
The binding nature of international treaties only really had any strenght back in the days of bipolarity. They were extremely weak before the late 1940s.The USSR and the US were scared of breaking them and driving neutral or loosely aligned nations to the other side. Ever since 1991, and particularly since the Yugoslav wars, the US has broken them many times. Eventually these precedents became the norm and other countries followed the trend.

>>513291459
>>513291466
>>513292168
>>513293351
>But What About Russia
When I tell my friends Putin is the God of ukranny they never get to grasp the joke. This is what I mean basically

>>513291802
Because he‘s a jew

>>513293765

average hohol pig after two weeks under russian occupation

>>513293897
First of all, there can be no ambiguous reading of article 83 p.4 - it clearly only mentions Rada and never the President
Secondly, haven't heard of Ukrainian Constitutional Court discussing this particular matter on article 83
Thirdly, any amendments to the Constitution must be explicitly written in, which was not done
And fourthly, laws are not retroactive

all I heard by now from people were variations of "bruuuuuh it's an emergency laws don't matter lmao"

>>513293862
It doesn't matter what the legality is in Ukraine since you have no legality to speak for yourself, when someone from the EU will give a fuck I will care what they say, you are an aggressor that started an illegal war and currently is participating in genocide of the Ukrainian people, your dictator is a war criminal wanted in most countries, ever heard of conflict of interest? Your opinion on Ukraine is 0.
Sign the contract.

>>513294537
>legality doesn't matter
your opinion is noted
didn't read further

>>513294537
>in genocide of the Ukrainian people
Ukrainian people get free flats in Russia my nigga

>>513293897
their constitution says its "guided by the Act of Declaration of the Independence of Ukraine of 24 August 1991, approved by the national vote on 1 December 1991,"

Where it's written that Ukraine is a neutral independent state and must remain free from military alliances

>>513294630
You did, but your kvetching doesn't work on anyone, you lost the war, guess you are going for 2 million casualties, but Putin is ok with paying with your lives just so he can shake hands with Trump, Putin smiled more in USA than in russia, what a faggot cattle you are LMAO

>>513291459
>how is Russia STILL somehow unable to make any serious territorial gains?
they're fighting a soft world war against NATO. if it was russia vs ukraine without any outside influence russia would have taken it a long time ago. not without losses mind you but the war would not have dragged on this long.

>>513291292 (OP)
>guys, the country we're not invading is bending its own rules!
lol
The Ukrainian constitution says there are no elections during invasion, ipso officers hold over.
There's no complication, just GRU rape victims wearing basement smells.
>>513294822
And then you invaded.

>>513294985
>bawk bawk bawk bawk genocide!! regime!! bloody putler!!
Again: Ukrainian people go to Russia to grab a flat and a handful of social benefits. How the fuck do you call this a genocide

>>513291292 (OP)
>Russians complaining about the political systems of other places.

>>513291292 (OP)
>Flag
>Poses as the 2nd most powerful army in the world
>Invades one of the poorest counties in europe
>Strategic failure with rare tactical victories through artillery spam and huge losses
>Total failure of combined arms
>Lost most of the black sea fleet to a country with no fleet at all
>War drags on for the 4th year in a ww1 style slog
>Concerned about the legitimacy of the leader of the country he invaded

>>513295163
>ukranny shills
>rape
I’ve never seen this duo apart
>invadid jyst bekause ((( arrrggghhh waaaaah((( nafo help((
FAFO. Oink oink

>>513295163
>The Ukrainian constitution says there are no elections during invasion
exactly
a president's term doesn't end when new elections are conducted, it ends on a predetermined date from the day of his inauguration, unless there are clauses to prolong it, which there aren't

>>513295163
but before that they raped the foundation of their country
>Пopoшeнкo пoдпиcaл зaкoн o зaкpeплeнии в кoнcтитyции кypca Укpaины в HATO и EC
>https://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/6134048

>>513293862
>discuss legalities
It's funny how you pidors squirm and fidget trying to "prove" your own propaganda bull shit. Zelensky IS legitimate and within the Ukrainian Constitution, e.g. "Article 108. The President of Ukraine shall exercise his powers until the newly elected President of Ukraine assumes office."
https://www.president.gov.ua/ua/documents/constitution/konstituciya-ukrayini-rozdil-v#:~:text=%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%82%D1%8F%20108.%20%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%20%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%97%D0%BD%D0%B8%20%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%83%D1%94%20%D1%81%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%97%20%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F%20%D0%B4%D0%BE%20%D0%B2%D1%81%D1%82%D1%83%D0%BF%D1%83%20%D0%BD%D0%B0%20%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%20%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%20%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B0%20%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%97%D0%BD%D0%B8.

Also this:
https://zakon.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/389-19#n173

>>513295138
I didn't see russia complain when they used poles against swedes and germans against poles and americans against germans, that's ok you can tell that shit when they lose the war to cope.

>>513291292 (OP)
>3rd world slav shithole
>legitimacy question
Good one Ivan

>>513295528
>i
>Russia
Ftfy

>>513294716
>free flats in Russia
kek, even russians don't get free flats in russia, you lying pidor.

>>513295366
You aren't going to lecture me on protocol, you used your Constitution to claim land you never held as core, so you could put your defensive national guard on offense.
One obvious answer is that a single error or oversight in a Constitutional document only creates a crisis if there's not a greater crisis at hand.
Positive vs Negative powers, and the necessity of Probable Cause. Spirit vs Letter, and nobody covers for all legalities, not even the French.

That issue is not a crisis for Ukraine from a Ukrainian actor, it's a crisis imposed by Russia. The moment Russia stops Invading without declaration of war, and claiming land it doesn't hold, there's some room to tell the Rada to correct its paperwork. Until then,

Anon of the Basement, you could get 10 free acres of land and 1.5 million Rubles, just GO TO Ukraine!

>>513294525
>>First of all, there can be no ambiguous reading of article 83 p.4 - it clearly only mentions Rada and never the President
Yes but the constitution is silent on this matter. It recognizes the state of martial law and state of emergency, but never rules on how they must occur. The martial law act complements this omission, but it can obviously be challenged in court as unconstitutional.
>Secondly, haven't heard of Ukrainian Constitutional Court discussing this particular matter on article 83
I cant find you a ruling because I cant read russian or ukranian. But I find it highly doubtful that this issue has never been brought to them.
>Thirdly, any amendments to the Constitution must be explicitly written in, which was not done
Because it wouldnt be an amendment. It would be a law with constitutional effect equivalent to an amendment.
>And fourthly, laws are not retroactive
This is only a rule in criminal law. Elsewhere, it depends on the circunstances and the text of the law.
>"bruuuuuh it's an emergency laws don't matter lmao"
Which is obviously not an argument, but I'm saying that there is SOME legal grounding to this maneuver without having to resort to a state of exception that wasnt predicted in the constitution.
>>513294822
That's the preamble of the constitution. It's not binding.

I am deeply conSIRned sirs! How can zelensky do this?

>>513295528
Bah I just can’t stop drooling over this shining example of xoxol way of viewing this world. Xoxol can’t grasp the concept of alliance and allies, in his chutzpah trickery Jewish world there are no allies but the users and the used ones. As a disposable tool not unbeknownst to being used by everyone, xoxol eventually adopts this behaviour model and begins projecting it on everyone else. I believe however, xoxol, you do realise you’re being used at this point of your being

>>513291292 (OP)
Cry more faggot, trump still thinks hes legit like every one except russia.

>>513295674
I’d be jealous too if I were amongst your more lucky compatriots, piggy. Oink oink

>>513295452
The only way to avoid having a US/CIA puppet as your prime minister/president is to not allow real Democratic elections. If a country like Russia were truly Democratic they would have been conquered through the ballot box already.

Zelensky was put in place by the US/CIA after the Democratically elected pro-Russian president was ousted.

>>513291292 (OP)
not that anyone cares since no one expects west and its stooges to actualy hold to any agreement reached, if they were, there woudnt be a war now.

>>513295816
>That's the preamble of the constitution. It's not binding.

says who
maybe Ukrainian independence then isn't binding too?

>>513295881
Alliance woth north korea.

>>513295961
>Oink oink
I don't speak russian, you pidor

>>513296098
Are you telling me some underage malnourished chimps are enough to buckbreak White Christian Ukraryans? Bad optics mykola

Russia is very aware of the legitimacy issue, hence why Putin has been seeking agreements from the rest of the world and not Ukraine, when it comes time to sign with Ukraine they’ll either go to the Rada or they’ll go to whoever replaces Zelensky when he inevitably gets overthrown.

>>513296114
Oink oink is the sound ukranny makes with its snout. Oink for me piggy, oink oink

>>513296000
>Zelensky was put in place by the US/CIA after the Democratically elected pro-Russian president was ousted.
after Poroshenko? you're so stupid you can't even get your lies straight!

The war would've been over for 3 years already if Putun wasn't such an eunuch cuck and actually declared war on Ukraine and mobilized. You can't talk shit when this old KGB boomer is leading you lol.

>>513296226
take your russian retardation somewhere else, pidrila.

>>513294985
smiling in Russia is not the same as smiling in the US.

>>513296240
>oink oink oink!! zelensky is legit!! no cia in my kayntry!! oink oink oink oink!!!!
Ewww you dirty swine

>>513295452
first of all, refering to your picture
>Ukrainian elections
2005 - Maidan coup with western support. The pro west leader turned out to be most corrupt and hated ever, hence Yanukovich easilyu won in 2010.
2014 - ANOTHER western backed coup and start of civil war.
2019 - fake elections where 20 mln ukrainians coudnt vote, other parties were repressed and candidate from media mogul Kolomoiski won by promising no war with Russia (which he turned 180 immidiately)

As for your link, no, President is not granted powers indifenitely if he just decides to ban all opposite parties and cancel elections alltogether.

>>513295528
its less complaining and more just stating a fact. whether russia wins or loses is irrelevant to me, but its a bigger war than just ukraine vs russia only when you have arms coming in from multiple countries to both sides, but majority of outside iaid is being received by ukraine.

>>513291459
Putting is playing rope a dope with NATO and is the undisputed charismatic leader of BRICS, which is new global power center. NATO is all rotting inside due to immigration and Jews.

>>513296344
Wanna know why you oink? Because the only human language you know is Russian. ukranny invented their own language which the rest of humanity doesn’t understand, but it sounds suspiciously similar to oinking. Oink oink pigga

>>513296319
The war wasn’t even supposed to happen in the first place, the only reason things escalated is Ukraine and the west took this asinine position of “no negotiations under any circumstances!!!!!”. The lack of diplomacy made war inevitable.

>>513296240
There was a leaked phone call at the time of Victoria Nuland discussing with someone else who they were going to replace him with.

>>513291459
What are the trillions being paid in by NATO? It's easy to win a stalemate when given tons of shit for free.

>>513296165
It has obviously not been enough

>>513296092
Maybe. But Ukraine declared independence from the Soviet Union, not Russia. And Russia had already declared independence the year prior.

>>513294525
>Secondly, haven't heard of Ukrainian Constitutional Court discussing this particular matter on article 83
thats because the court hasnt been functional. the court requires minimum number of judges (12) but zelensky didnt appoint a new judge to the court until last june. so its probably still in summer leave i guess

>>513296666
10 thousand Koreans armed with sausages and 1942 tactics repelled a 70 thousand ukranny force in Kursk

>>513291292 (OP)
>Vladimir Zelenskiy is no longer the president of Ukraine since May 20 2024
Lies by lakhtatroon, lol
-15 rubles, try better arguments next time

>>513296794
Having spaghetti code instead of laws is an easy target thoe

>>513296768
USA repelled them by cutting communications in the region.

>>513296594
and? do you even know when the Maidan happened and when Zelensky became president, you moron?

He is as legitimate as Trump: the CIA picked them both because they value: height, baritone voice and kosherness.

>>513291292 (OP)
He's a murderering kike puppet that doesn't want an election for obvious reasons.

>>513296947
>the maidown
What is it? Sounds like enraged oinking

>>513296688
>And Russia had already declared independence the year prior.
I don't think that's the case. Russia is the legal successor to the union, which was dissolved after Ukraine declared independence. Therefore Russian Federation is member of UNSC, had to pay back lendlease to USA and so on

>>513296908
Nah that’s a red herring nothingburger. The intel never ceased to flow, ukranny simply failed at what it wanted the most (grocery store and kurchatov nuclear facility)

>>513291292 (OP)
>muh enemy president nog legitimate
HAHAHAHAHAHA

>>513297032
>oinking
>t.
back to the swamp you go, pidrila.

Why did he destroy his own appearance? Is he a traitor?

>>513297181
Is this zelelsky who can’t wear a suit? Lmao oink harder

>>513296499
Most of Ukraine's weapons are homemade, don't pretend Ukraine would collapse without your 34 Abrams when Ukraine was destroying 30 russian tanks a day, russia is incompetent shithole and weak, they ask for things like they are USA, they are russia - a weak shithole that will lose the war they border.

>>513297039
Sucession of states in this regard is a question of diplomatic representation and it's largely ruled by this treaty: https://legal.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/3_2_1978.pdf
>1. A succession of States does not as such affect:
>(a) obligations relating to the use of any territory, or to restrictions upon its use, established by a treaty for the benefit of any territory of a foreign State and considered as attaching to the territories in question;
>(b) rights established by a treaty for the benefit of any territory and relating to the use, or to restrictions upon the use, of any territory of a foreign State and considered as attaching to the territories in question.
>2. A succession of States does not as such affect:
>(a) obligations relating to the use of any territory, or to restrictions upon its use, established by a treaty for the benefit of a group of States or of all States and considered as attaching to that territory;
>(b) rights established by a treaty for the benefit of a group of States or of all States and relating to the use of any territory, or to restrictions upon its use, and considered as attaching to that territory.
>3. The provisions of the present article do not apply to treaty obligations of the predecessor State providing for the establishment of foreign military bases on the territory to which the succession of States relates. (ex: the Sevastopol base)
De facto, the Russian Federation is the sucessor of the Russian SFSR while the Soviet Union went defunct.

>>513297667
>Most of Ukraine's weapons are homemade
PHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAH
You shameless slut! Ukranny couldn’t manufacture BULLETS till late 2024. SPH Bohdana is Archer gun + Czech truck base. And so on and so forth

>>513298073
I wanted to say that I really appreciate your posts since it's hard to come across knowledgeable people in this dump

>>513298120
>>513298208
Sign the contract, no Trump will save you

>>513298073
Soviet Union was a UNION, the states didnt secede, they left Union, thus only thing that applies is Soviet Union laws itself.

By other countries leaving Soviet Union it didnt cease to exist until Russia did, 5 months later.

>>513298448
Learn to manufacture fucking bullets first you zelebot dovboyob
t. Kriviy Rih dweller

>>513296487
>easily won
debatable.
How about you mention that all of Moscow's pissed undies came out of the mention that Ukraine was going to cancel the Sevastopol lease, and from that moment on the Kremlin shoved a bunch of money into Ukrainian black shit to get Yanukovich a position?

And what position of governance did Russia hold that exceeded that of the US's in 2005?

Number of fine cars robbed from dead owners and sold in the US?

>>513297039
>had to pay back lendlease to USA
why do you pidors always lie?

"...$11.3 billion to the Soviet Union..."
"the Soviet Union repaid $722 million in 1971, with the remainder of the debt written off"

the soviets paid 6.3% of the lend lease by 1971 and the rest was written off

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease#:~:text=President%20Roosevelt%20signs%20the%20Lend,of%20the%20debt%20written%20off.

>>513298073
>De facto, the Russian Federation is the sucessor of the Russian SFSR while the Soviet Union went defunct.

RSFSR was never a un security council member state. Only the soviet union was. And it's seat was transferred to the RF precisely because it's the legal successor, for better or worse

>>513298716
How’s the oinking going pidrila? Did you learn to wear suits?

>>513298935
>no you
why are you such a retarded pidor, pidor?

>>513299094
>oink oink
Maybe learn to speak human, pidor?

>>513291466
kys plebbitor

>>513294985
post nose jewboy

>>513295785
people who get their info from the WSJ are hilarious and misled

>>513291292 (OP)
>Yes sure, people can pretend he's the president even now, but extreme circumstances do not allow to circumvent the existing law.
nigger you've never even had a real election. kindly fuck off with your bullshit.

>>513300944
you didn't rebut anything he was saying btw. just "hurrr muh 4chan shills and russian military bloggers are da real informashuns"

>>513291292 (OP)
>Vladimir Zelenskiy is no longer the president of Ukraine
only ever been one in title, picrel, Andriy Yermak is the one calling the shots and always has been
https://archive.is/5rF23

>>513294537
Russia's legality is suported by it's military power.

Come on now anon, if we started refusing to acknowledge governments just because they were technically illegitimate, there'd be no recognised government anywhere on earth.

>>513297181
That's sminem you dumb nigger, he died for our sins