Thread 513396434

Previous: >>513391874
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Be aware, any /chug/ thread that uses globohomo nuspeak wording in the OP (such as Kyiv) or cites UKROP sources (like video game footage) are fake shill threads.
>By posting in these threads, you recognize Israel controls the NATO Council and you irrevocably denounce the Talmud out of your own volition

▶Latest
>Russia hammers "Kara Dag" fags or 15th National Guard operational brigade commissars with FAB-3000 in Dimitrov - https://archive.today/LyXN5
>FSB prevents Ukrainian suicide bomber terror attack on Kerch Bridge - https://archive.today/DgJ9A
>Russian forces struck storage sites for the Ukraine's Sapsan missile project - https://archive.today/NUy00
>Zelensky rejects Trump's offer to withdraw from remaining cities in Donetsk, and freeze all frontlines in Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk, and Sumy - https://archive.today/3RvZX
>Russian forces liberated the villages of Kolodezi in Donetsk, and Voronoye in Dnepropetrovsk - https://archive.today/mtD6Q
>STORM, Russian forces liberate seven villages over the week in Donetsk and Dnepropetrovsk - https://archive.today/AF5pT
>British Generals have abandoned the idea of deploying "peace keepers" to the Ukraine - https://archive.today/eUWZk
>Battle Group South's sector of the Donetsk People's Republic has been fully liberated, border to Dnepropetrovsk under Russian control - https://archive.today/74b8l
>STORM, Russian troops liberate the villages of Shcherbinovka, and Iskra - https://archive.today/x0fB3
>Russia and the Ukraine exchange 84 POWs for 84, the Ukraine still refuses 998 of her own POWs - https://archive.today/DCYkA

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>Russian forces storm Ukrainian positions using hijacked M113
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>Two "Fatherless" Californian daughters
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>19 draft dodgers tried to cross the Slovak border as a group, but they were caught by hohol border guards
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>Destruction of a Bogdana self-propelled howitzer
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>Destruction of a Caesar self-propelled howitzer with a lancet
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>Destruction of an Ukrainian 2A36 Hyacinth-B howitzer
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>Russian artillery crew firing a 3A36 Hyacinth-B howitzer with drone support
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>Artillery shell lands directly next to hohol
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>4 night-time FPV strikes on 4 hohol vehicles
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>FPV strikes on abandoned hohol vehicles
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>FPV strike onto a hohol
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>FPV strikes onto hohol trenches and soldiers
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>Settlement of Kovsharovka near Kupyansk gets hit by a FAB-3000
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>Lancets strike hohols with excavators desperately trying to dig trenches in Chernigov oblast
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>AfU infantry Iskandered near Starkhorshchina, Chernigov oblast
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>Ukrainian drone command post/depot near Krasnoye, Chernigov hit with Suicide-Geran 2s
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>AfU infantry sniped by Tank from 4 kilometers
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>Gerans dropping anti-tank mines on Konstantinovka-Slavyansk roads
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>Dead hohol scouts
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two more weeks and Putin will safe Ukranny

>>513396571
nice picture you have there

>>513396434 (OP)
Z
Talmud denounced
Blood and Soil
Bunny!!!

Rentry was updated

>>513396434 (OP)
Z
I denounce the Talmud
>skynews saying trump needs to take either the russian vision or the EU vision of the negotiations
damn
skynews said something surprisingly clever and realistic for the first time

the lack of meltdowns disappoints me however
they did call monke-orangutan meeting a "bromance" lol, that was funny

>A closed-door meeting with European leaders has begun.
>Key points from Trump’s statements at the meeting with European leaders and Zelensky:
>Trump said the Alaska summit strengthened his belief in the possibility of achieving peace in Ukraine.
>He stressed the need to discuss a potential territorial exchange between Russia and Ukraine.
>Trump expressed confidence that Putin and Zelensky can find common ground to resolve the conflict in Ukraine.
>He said he does not believe in the threat of “further Russian aggression” against Ukraine.
>Trump voiced confidence that a three-way meeting on Ukraine with Putin and Zelensky will take place — the only question is when.
>Within a week or two, it will become clear whether the conflict in Ukraine can be settled through negotiations.

stronk big words from the coalition of the willing.... LOLOL

>>513396385
truth nuke inbound

/chug/ <3's /ptg/ :3

>>513396862
whats wrong with germany?

>>513396569
marichka is beautiful

Why do 'european' 'leaders' make me so mad?

>>513397081
perfection

>>513397147
Yuck.

>>513397037
russia already rejected all pissfires
why they keep talking? are they crazy? what they want trump to do?

>>513397037
They aren't actually saying anything. They are merely trying to look like they want peace.

They keep insisting on guarantees for Ukraine but the root cause was security guarantees for Russia, which they seem to refuse to talk about.

cope a bit harder /cuck/
I’m close ^^

>>513397239
>why traitors of humanity which surrendered their countries to jews and betrayed their nations make me mad

>>513397037
trump:
>we have the possibility of a full peace instead of a ceasefire
euronigger leaders:
>muh pissfire this
>muh pissfire that
kek

Who let the pedokraut (original) out of the cock cage?

thrice ive tried gunn's superman, on multiple days between 1 and 3l beer. the longest i held out was half the movie, and of that i skipped a half as the filler trash it was.
the movie is dogshit, after guardians im disappointed. man of steel i at least watched to the end and wasnt even all that drunk for.

>Back in 2016, Victoria Nuland bragged to the US Congress about how thoroughly Washington had taken over Ukraine after the 2014 coup.
>She spelled it out without shame:
>US operatives embedded in a dozen Ukrainian ministries.
>American-trained cops patrolling 18 cities.
>US Treasury gutting 60 Ukrainian banks while sparing depositors to keep people quiet.
>Hundreds of millions of dollars funneled into molding Ukraine’s military.
>It wasn’t "assistance", it was a takeover dressed up as aid.
Lest we forget that the US is accountable, despite Trump's attempts to shift blame.

>>513397452
>gunn's superman
Why do you torture yourself with capeshit in 2k25?

As I said, the meeting with the vassals was just for show. Of course, they all agree with trump's plan. Trump is now also talking about the security guarantees that wittkoff spoke about yesterday.
>President Putin agreed that Russia would accept security guarantees for Ukraine

>>513395490
You're absolutely correct, but even in that case (especially even if things thawed) the entirety of advancement would have been painfully slow due to the terrain alone. Spurdoland in the poverty days of 1939 was even more notoriously horrifying collection of ogre swamps, almost impenetrable coniferous forests and waterways so vast and dotted that you'd be lucky a single road lead to anywhere important, which would lead me to believe the only viable way to invade the country even today is either via paratrooping into key spots, invade via sea or just glass the entirety of the country into ash. I'm in favour of the third option. No sane person wants to contend with the nature here and the same goes for most of the Western Russian border.

>>513397147
anyone has the countryball pic where the USA and Russia join together? it's fitting

Almost 4 years and over a million dead ziggers later, ruZZia controls LESS territory in Ukraine than in the first month of the SMO.

If this is what vatniks think winning looks like, long may it continue.

>>513397539
i wouldnt say his guardians were typical capeshit, it had soul. i spotted no signs of soul in his superman.

>>513397037
Orange Utan should tell Merz he should meet with Putin and explain him why cis-fire is strictly needed before piss talks

>>513397081
>14
it's called a teenager

>>513396873
Marco's sanpaku game is 10/10.

>>513397037
thoughts and prayers bros, we are so back!

would a frozen border with a DMZ enforced by NATO/EU be a victory?

>>513397539
Same reason you come on here every day. You like the pain.

>>513397695
which is cunny

>imagine cucktin shaking the hands of an unelected bum
>agreeing that he didn’t need those new capitals or nazi soldiers
>imagine receiving just the half of the money that was stolen by the EU
>imagine being /cuck/ then

>>513397426
its funny how everyone at this meeting is angry, upset, depressed and seething
their faces are just priceless
I am sure trump likes to be around those losers
>>513397661
glad we agree to continue thd
still unclear what comes after 60yo

>>513397504
Jewsa is literally who started this bullshit so they can profit from the euros and try to destabilize russia, as it was their plan until Putin came and threw a wrench into their plans and a panan peels on their faces.
Trump is literally just trying to shift the blame on the euros when they are just willing retards who fell for it because they were promised infinite free resources from russia.

>>513397754
Why didn't Putin save Ukranny like you said he would?

>>513397661
>Cлaбo eбeтe!!!
Чoмy нe нa фpoнти?

>>513397425
>people next door.jpg
I should rename the picture to "cuck line" or "cuck queue", would have been funnier

>>513397661
are you winning son? crimea beach party when?

>>513397504
Miles was also an important player in getting everyone on board.

>>513397696
>>513397681
>troonkrainians
>ukietroons
There are so many variations for their tranny level of delusion regarding the war.

>>513397906
Keep imagining

oof that was a big one
see you soon /cuck/
post more cucktin logos
and never forget to smile
^^

>>513397754
NATO and EU? No. Bipartisan pisskeepers while Ukraine agrees to smaller peacetime forces and security guarantees for US troop support? Yes. Atleast in the case of the latter, Russians would still have a finger on the pulse while with the former they'll just begin playing Fortnite immidiately in terms of troop deployments.

>>513397906
imagine being tranny and coping so hard after last 20 hopes for putin saving ukranny have failed

>>513397916
what are you on about bud? forgot your medications?
it's a very simple non-troll question

>>513397147
Migatards are nafoid tier deluded

>513397661
How’s the Crimea beach party planning going, Taras?

>>513398024
he wont save ukranny, trnanoid

>>513397661
TCC will catch your ass mykola
Get ready to die for Zelensky

>>513397980
r u fucking stupid

>>513398082
That's not nice
Putin likes Israel more than Iran :3

>>513397504
Not to forget picrel. Nord Stream 2 has made the ukrainians and poles so angry that the cia had it easy.

Zlonsky status???

>>513397754
obviously not thats why its not gonna happen
ukranny will never be a nato
ukranny troops will never be in ukranny
you are saying crazy shit again

Since not much is going on.

>>513397674
GotG was the Star Wars sequel trilogy we deserved. People mistakenly think that he's a capeshit director, while in reality he's a space opera director.

>>513397661
>he is already coping that he actually wins if he surrenders all 5 regions

>>513398167
everyone on this image is dead excluding poroshenko whos under home arrest by the dictator jelwensky

>>513398211
IDUBBBZ NOOOO

>>513398158
Hezbolla killed countless kikes using Russian weapons
I voted for this

>>513398055
>would something that will never happen be a victory?
>non-troll question

>>513398211
if mcdonalds has georgiy stripes on its burgers why did puccians replace it with vkus ochka anyway?

>>513397754
No nato near Donetsk

>>513398211
Don't post corpses, we don't do psychopathic shit in this general.

>>513398370
Hezbollah? What's that?
I don't think that exists anymore

>>513398357
Ladybug is alive too.

>>513398158
>AI-assisted cope images
as expected from trannoids

>There is a threat of a Tu combat sortie tonight, monitors say.

>Russia has also launched geraniums. There are about 50 of them in our airspace now.

>>513398456
hes a skin walker

>>513397651
>I'm in favour of the third option. No sane person wants to contend with the nature here
Sisu is the one thing we have going for us, bratan. If we lived on plains, we'd just be normal mongols.

>>513397616
russia never disagreed with security gurantees, they were invisioned in og istambul papers. its just mainly russian security gurantees to ukranny which shills dont want to mention.

kek

what did he say to him

>>513398126
no you

Putin called his 'allies' in South Africa, Belarus, Central Asia and India (curiously left out DPRK and China) while the White House meeting happened.

>>513398503
But the message behind it remains true, Putin has not helped Iran or Assad.

>>513398211
>kids backed
>security garanteed

My guess is that this was a nothing burger and the war continues for years.
Eurofags will not surrender, but Trump will sell them weapons but he might rearrange some trade deals to give Putin a breathe.

>>513397661
ain't this the bunny?
if so, didn't you niggers cut off the bunny's ears?

>>513398158
>likes Israel more than Iran :3
we know
that's probably the reason why he wants to drop ukranda as quickly as possible
also to help pissrael with gaza too, since kikes are still struggling with hamas

>>513398679
Realpolitik rejects the notion of state ideology. We do what benefits Russia, not what fart sniffers in tweed suits deem to be kosher.

>>513398711
Holy based. China is not our ally. And he called DPRK just the other day, so another call would be redundant.

>>513397661
deepcope doesnt like that map
käk

>>513398300
dunno where you found star wars in it. it was a cookie well directed and well quipped entertainment slop. it checked out because he puts bits and pieces of himself in there, spread out through dialogue, music, the quips.
meanwhile the sequel trilogy (which i count the prequels as) is lucas getting a humongous head and thinking he was anything but a craftsman riding on a rock solid formulaic plot acted out by well guided actors and bound together by good editing.
the disnep movies are not worth consideration, they are just an active fucking force of entropy trying to turn the most amount of manhours into pure shit.

>>513398657
>russia never disagreed with security gurantees
But that's coping now. After the american empire's many lies, security guarantees here mean that nato will turn ukraine into a fortress. I'm still curious what russia will get from the deal. So far, all that's been said is what the american empire will get.

>>513398679
You now realize that the only people who actually have "state ideologies" are Westoids.
Even national socialists were less ideology driven than current Westoids.

>>513398762
Seems like exactly the same outcome when they last met. The EU leadership appears to be more inflexible than even the US neocons.

>>513398926
>China is not our ally
Tell that to vatnik YouTube

>>513396434 (OP)
The ukraine must be impregnated!

>>513398371
Not much of a relation between production numbers (or the size of your country, ressources and population) and competence (or quality or whatever).
Where the Germans wrong/stupid?
>Yes
But they were pretty competent when they tried something. Most people agree they had many (but far from all) of the best weapon designs and engineering technology.
Few things to consider there, tho:
>most advanced German weapons, say Panther tanks, were developed only in response to superior allied gear/necessity
It's not like they started in cheat mode with Panthers in 1938. No, back then they used clown-tanks.
>since Germany got fucked harder year by year R&D and industrial production also got worse with time
Another example: Had Hitler simply let the General Staff (Germans, some of which were competent) do whatever they wanted instead of making crazy orders himself, the war would have gone a lot better for Germany.
>although they wouldn't have attacked the Soviets

>>513399021
read what I have written. its security gurantees by russian forces which give russia veto of what armies can deploy in ukranny. theres nothing conserning nato there.

>>513398571
The Romans stopped at the Danube and recoiled at horror of the Britons, so i have no clue what kind of peoples and terrain was so horrifying about this place during the BC's to keep the conquerors away. This place must have been even more soggy a couple thousand years ago.

>>513398711
no he didnt let out china
day later he also called kim
why are you lying

new baker needed

>>513398452
I thank them for their service
Now Houthi chads single-handedly fuck kike economy while humiliating mutts

>>513397925
I already went. You?

>>513398520
Here comes dogovornyachok
>At least 2-3 Tu-95MS aircraft take off.

>>513399021
>security guarantees here mean that nato will turn ukraine into a fortress
No it doesn't.
Denmark has given security guarantees to Ukraine a year ago. They are active right now. What did this change?

NAFOids now realize that nobody gives a fuck about their security guarantees, because they are worthless, because the fact that they didn't go into Ukraine in the past three years proves that they are irrelevant.
The issue with NATO expansionism is that every NATO country signs its land away to the USA and the USA stations nukes there and it is factually their land.
Ukraine will not have that.
Ukraine won't be turned into a fortress. They already tried that in the 8 years between 2014 and 2022. There won't be NATO troops stationed there, there wont be any Westoid fighting for hohols if they get attacked.

>>513399259
why would he go nigger? There's no general mobilization in Russia. It's literally an adventure for them while you're scrapping the barrel.

>>513399259
you didnt as theres no rotation and you would be dead
do you think lying on the internet would save you?

>>513399256
>Hurting your friend Israel
I don't think Putin approves

Damn, fell asleep at just the wrong moment. Can someone give me a QRD on Trump-Zelensky meeting?

>>513399146
The siwss concerner has been concerning for like several weeks now, pretending that IOU of not attacking on out part means full NATO backyard. Do you feel concerned? I'm concerned.
Meanwhile during the Z night out:
>Any scenarios involving the appearance of a military contingent of NATO countries in Ukraine are unacceptable and fraught with an uncontrolled escalation of the conflict - Zakharova

>>513399146
>>513399306
Who will then provide the peacekeeping troops in western ukraine? Or will russia then trust ukrainian troops?

>>513399470
Nothing ever happens

>>513399496
Who said that there will be peacekeeping troops in Western Ukraine?

Security Guarantees just mean "we'll think about it".
It's not a "security promise"
It's not a defensive alliance
It doesn't mean we'll mobilize immediately if you're invaded.
It's not even a strategic partnership like what Russia has with Iran.
Why are wectoids so obsessed with this after latest dogovorchiki?
>>513399306
Basically this. No one wants to die for ukraine except redditors. Not even other ukrainians.

>>513397425
Too bad its just AI, I could easily imagine it happening.

>>513399496
Well let’s see
Not Italy
Not Britain
Not Germany
Not Poland
France maybe?
Turkey highly unlikely

>>513399470
>"Please children, sit down for trilateral talks with Russia.
>But muh children
>But much ceasefire
>Muh "War Of Aggression"
>Muh "Russia needs to shown it's place."
The average filibustering you see on TV all day. The most important things we can likely take away is that the EU leaders (and Zelensky) came to the table with preconceived notions of front-loaded promises on "security guarantees" and misinterpret the meaning. It concerns both sides. Not just Ukraine.

>>513399470
Drumpf betrayed Zelenskii and all of Europe (again).

>>513399259
>>513399628
Today is Zelensky's final reckoning.

>>513399259
Why would i?
There's a lot of people that need money more than me (and I'm grateful to them for risking their lives for our country).
And, if you went and now are peremoga posting this can only mean you lost some limbs for the kike.

>>513399496
what peacekeeping troops?
thats something nato have invented in their heads, its not real.

Resolution 1244-2: Electric Boogaloo

The Security Council would reaffirm Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity while recognizing that the conflict in Donetsk and Luhansk threatens international peace. It would demand an immediate ceasefire, withdrawal of foreign and irregular forces, and establish an international peacekeeping force (UNFOR-Donbas) alongside a civil administration (UNMIU) to temporarily govern the region.

This arrangement would “freeze” the conflict under UN authority: neither Kyiv nor the separatists would hold full control, while a political process determined the region’s long-term status. Ukraine’s borders would formally remain intact, but Donetsk and Luhansk would gain broad autonomy, with guarantees of human rights, refugee return, and regular UN oversight.

Over time, such a system could mirror the precedent of Kosovo. Resolution 1244 (1999) upheld Serbia’s territorial integrity, yet prolonged UN administration, lack of central government control, and stalled negotiations paved the way for Kosovo’s unilateral independence declaration in 2008, recognized by many states.

Applied to Eastern Ukraine, a “1244-2” framework might similarly have led to Donetsk and Luhansk eventually declaring independence after years of UN governance and political deadlock. Whether the world would accept that outcome, however, would depend less on legal principles and more on political will and the balance of great power interests, just as in the case of Kosovo.

>>513399545
So they hand over western ukraine to azov and the cia? That amounts to the same thing, doesn't it?

>>513399615
france part of the war, turkey part of the war

>>513399496
Why would Russia allow Western troops to enter Ukraine en masse when that was one of the key things they are trying to avoid with this entire war?
>>513399615
>France maybe?
Yes, let's allow a beligerent nuclear power station a few thousand frogs as bait in Ukraine. The same power whose president was the first to repeatedly speak about sending a (((reassurance force))).
Nothing can go wrong.

>>513397661

how come kursk aint on that map

>>513399656
>be Europe
>harass Trump in European news every day the same way they harass Putin
>expect Trump to be on their side
never again

>>513399754
Ukraine's rump state will still be unable to join NATO or EU. It will also be demilitarized and prevented from hosting any foreign military bases or soldiers.
So no.
>>513399856
>Trump forgot to say "thank you"
It's ovir.

>>513399776
>Why would Russia allow Western troops to enter Ukraine en masse when that was one of the key things they are trying to avoid with this entire war?
What else do you understand by the security guarantees trump is talking about?

>>513399441
TKD, simple as

>>513399952
>trump is talking
imagine taking the orange nigger seriously

>>513399776
>Why would Russia allow Western troops to enter Ukraine en masse when that was one of the key things they are trying to avoid with this entire war?
They just will, according to The Plan. Like how they'll give up when they see muh advanced western wunderwaffles.

>>513399259
you used condoms?

>>513397912
To Paul Wolfowitz's delight.

>>513399776
Do you know how many FFL fags died in artemovsk

>>513399754
The whole point is that Ukraine is so weak that they can't threaten anyone anymore. They don't produce anything themselves, they are factually bankrupt, they exclusively fight with Western weapons now. They are completely harmless once they are locked in.
>CIA
Obviously not, because the USA will have to stay out
>Azov
They don't exist anymore, they are already dead

>>513399999
Damn son

VLADIMIR, STOP!

>>513399723
they are now forcing cripples to fight in volksturm so unlikely. hes just lying to pretend to be tought on the internet.

>>513397426
>>513398684
I am assuming Zelensky was the entertainment.
>Now! I've already amazed you by making our accountability disappear, the memory and critical thinking skills of your citizens disappear, your tax dollars disappear, my critics disappear, the orthodox church disappear, the south east of my country disappear, and men and materiel disappear!
>BUT BE AMAZED ALL OVER AGAIN BY MY NEXT TRICK!

>>513399982
TLD

>>513397935
US meddling in 2004 was consolidated in the model of what they did to Milosevic in Serbia.

So you're all saying that the deal trump negotiated is some kind of unconditional surrender whose only condition is that ukraine keeps the territories it currently holds?

>>513399533
>>513399628
>>513399656
So he finna pull out and say
>I did what I could bros
or does he still want to play the role of a peacemaker while supplying Ukraine with weapons?

>>513399754
For better or worse, East wants to be part of Russia and west wants to be an Azov led Bandera Nazi state. That’s just how it’s gonna be.

>>513399999
Oh shit, checked

>>513400187
Whatever MIC and his jewish handlers feel like.

>>513400181
>ukraine keeps the territories it currently holds
No, Ukraine will have to give Russia more territory. Russia demands that and Trump agrees to that.
Did you really not follow this at all? The damand that Ukraine has to go further back, is in every single media outlet, even the most pro-hohol one.

Only Eurocucks and Zelensky think different, they want a ceasefire on the current front for rearming.

>At the meeting with European leaders, Trump at first failed to recognize Finnish President Stubb, who was sitting directly across from him.
Orange Biden?

>>513400093
just 3

>>513400253
Then Odessa would also have to go to Russia. I'm curious to see if that happens.

>>513398289
Hey I posted that!

>>513398679
KEK

>>513398970
>deepcope doesnt like that map
well
at least this proves that orange orangutan has reasonable intel on the war (and he's not using retarded shit like cuckstate)

he also knows very well that the 14:1 K/D was pure bullshit (trump just doesn't care)

>>513400025
>They don't exist anymore, they are already dead
Why do you think so? They still exist. Their ranks have thinned out but they are still fighting.

>>513400181
>the deal trump negotiated
Swiss fucker, nothing was negotiated. These are meeting to organize other meetings. Spitballing strings of autistic positions we knew already about. But please continue concerning while Z can even phantom giving up all of Donbass not to mention the entire land corridor.

>Ukrainian monitoring channels report the takeoff of several Tu-95 strategic bombers from Olenya Airbase.
Reported 10 minutes ago.

>>513400187
Two weeks unironically

>>513400437
Would you recognize him?
I wouldn't.

>>513400437
to be fair, it's easy to forget about irrelevant retards even without dementia

>>513400437
trump probably doesnt even know wheres finland is

>>513400437
No. Just Stubb being an unforgettable schmuck. I would have literally taken the gay ISIS shipper in favour of the CIA plant, but the last elections we're literally picking between options that were bad, worse and catastrophic.

>>513399952
An agreement on a piece of paper that's locked away and then promptly forgotten.
>>513400024
How many? Please tell me it was a lot.
>>513400187
If Trump had balls he would have ripped the bandaid off first day in office, but now he has to deal with picrel in the Senate.

>Trump interrupted talks with European leaders for a phone call with Putin
>The talks will continue after the conversation.
LMAO

>>513400437
It's like you or me know that guy too

>>513400488
>Why do you think so?
Because i don't see them fighting anywhere and because there are 3000 of them in a Russian gulag right now.
Azov is a twitter LARP now.

>>513399656
of course nothing new to see here, trump was bought and sold long tolime ago, he is part of the international jewery

>>513400568
I think that he probably does. Trump said that Finland and Austria are his favorite European countries.

>>513400095
I can only hope our glowniggers will doxx all the meatcatchers right before his shitshow ends.
I can only imagine all the revenge snuff videos that are going to surface.
Some fat porker getting beaten to death for hours by prosthetic limbs of his former scores.
Some will be flayed alive, some will have their families tortured and murdered before their eyes.

>>513399150
>Our very existence would have been unimaginable to outlanders, and they would surely have seen us as being mythologically inhuman
Really, I like it that way. Someone had to be drum-beating, antler-wearing druidic savages of Europe. The more terrifying and offputting we are / were to mediterraneans, and the less they want to do with us, the better. I almost envy how hard Latvia held onto their native faith.

>>513396434 (OP)
fuck russia

>>513400497
I never said that, faggot. There's just obviously something going on, and I'm trying to figure out what.

>>513398970
NOOOOO THEY DESTROYED RUSSIAN BREAKTHROUGH ON THE COPEMAPS!
CALL DAMAGE CONTROL

>>513400625
Sorry Donald, Tu-s already in the air

>>513400625
kek

>>513400640
and here we have soros internet warriors damage controlling again

>>513400666
>doxxing TCK
Chill out, Satan! They were just following orders.
But yes, TCK and drone operators (both sides) are people I never feel bad to see killed.

>>513398679
>state ideology
>from eastern Europe to far ends of Asia through Caucasus
Russia is too pragmatic for that shit, state ideology is - if its good its good, if not defenestrate those responsible

>>513400625
based

>>513397661
so how many ukranians are dead? why is that never stated?

>>513400625
Hmph!

>>513400828
hyhyls are expendable

meh

>>513398832
>Realpolitik rejects the notion of state ideology. We do what benefits Russia, not what fart sniffers in tweed suits deem to be kosher.
>>513400822
>Russia is too pragmatic for that shit, state ideology is - if its good its good, if not defenestrate those responsible
Based

>>513400828
What he won't tell you is that Russia piled up battle victories in Donetsk and gained a lot of ground. It's pointless to compare this to vacating plain fields in Kharkov.

>>513400693
>I never said that, faggot
Opening post:
>Soooo like did Cucktin like agree to the hecking Ukraine be like NATO fortress? Yikes. Are ziggers not concerned? I think they should be concerned they already agreed to this. Witkoff said so!
Could've fooled me.

>>513398970
>corroborated by an article by Hohol Global citing a previous blog post by xXxBandera_Baldie_420xXx based on a tweet by the founder CEO CFO COO sole employee and intern of The Ataturk Syrian Humanitarian Counsel of Canterbury England informed by a comment from a Jewish member of an Azov linked elite PR unit told by an anonymous source close to someone familiar with an individual connected to a person claiming to have insider information directly from a related acquaintance of an unnamed individual working for Nintendo that witnessed first hand leaked secret documents from a closed door diplomatic meeting undisclosed to the public with between supposed high ranking individuals within the relevant governments that were made aware of the predictions of a renowned palm reader, life coach, and makeup tutorial influencer's Tik Tok repost of a professional Instagram tarot card reading as substantiated by a Reddit post citing last week's Live laugh Love digital magazine's horoscopes.

>>513400815
At least drone operators have to risk their hides, unlike the meatcatchers.

>>513400615
* For those not in the know, the other option was a 67-year old green party manlover in an interracial relationship, i.e. a man who has literally gotten on his knees for foreign dick. I still can't believe this fucking lizard was the least painful candidate.

>>513400828
>Let's show death tolls on televised media where the same retards who have been harping about Russian genocide now face the billboard that has absolutely horrifying K/D ratio of Ukrainians to Russians.
Even if Trump was mentally retarded, atleast someone in the room must keep the bad PR out of the Press for high profile meetings.

T*lmud denounced
TND
TKD
THD
TMD
TTD
TSH
TSK
TSM
TSB

>>513393017
>it's low velocity tho
I know that's already a necroposting as fuck but on recoil more influence have projectile mass rather than velocity

>>513400524
>>513400617
Thanks, I guess he's pro-THD as much as any other western leader.

>>513400943
well cleartly it isn't going well since zelensky had toi bring his handlers and wore a suit. He knows he may get fucked here.

>>513399999
Surely the plan will work this time unlike the other 100 times before

>>513399999
Very nice

>>513401026
well investoirs like to know what the risk is. you leave a lot of questions on risk up in the air so i can assume it isn't a good situation.

>>513400960
Fuck off, faggot. I simply believe that the security guarantees for ukraine everyone's talking about must mean something. I've taken note of your opinion that it doesn't mean anything, but I simply disagree.

>>513401052
>BMP-3
Does pic rel happen IRL?

>>513401082
doesnt matter if plan works or not you must TRUST
thats what r/ugh does

>>513400093
>>513400519
>takeoff of several Tu-95 strategic bombers
finally
we are back at bombing hohols, I was getting bored

>>513400974
LOL

>>513400405
>Only Eurocucks and Zelensky think different, they want a ceasefire
true
there was barely any mentions of pissfire (if any at all) until the EU leaders meeting

>>513400917
>Based
not really but very pragmatic
heads on spikes politics is what I would call based
but you guys do the best you can
I hate modernity

>>513400993
I should have clarified that I'm specifically talking about guys who drop grenades to finish off the wounded. Guys who destroy vehicles or do recon/fire correction are fine.
>>513401082
It's bound to work one of these "two more weeks".
>>513401217
You can use tanks as "artillery" too, but why? There's almost always a better tool for indirect fire job. Mortars being a key one.

>>513401194
>Talmudvision can't be wrong
Fell for it again award

>>513398926
We warned you

>>513401173
Didn't Blackrock already cut their losses? Same with practically most of the other business ventures that were planned for Western Ukraine? Far as anyone with their faculties intact can see, Ukraine might as well be an investment black hole until the war ends and it's kind of astonishing how much money you can sink into a doomed venture and still try and spin it as a grand victory on a gepolitical and economical sense.

>>513400631
pff
1) they have a civilian organization where they recruit new runefaggots nonstop
2) I don’t know how many of them are in russian captivity, but many have been exchanged.
3) After some awkward questions to Zelnsky about them - some of their divisions changed their emblems to be less obvious Nazis, and usually now they don't specify the name of the unit, but only the number (for example, "3rd assault brigade", where they constantly recruit)
4) Recently in a thread they showed a map with the unit emblems next to the "bunny ears" and there was at least one of their units there

You got that impression because they're not mentioned much in the media and a gorrilion new units was founded .

>>513401424
blackrock is a big purponent but entire government loans are investments as well. obviously you dont want to tank the situation but blatantly one siding it is usually a bad sign when appealing for other peoples money. its like making you think unicorns are real.

>>513400093
>the hohol alarm clock
>>513398926
You should have seen the mutt-tard who was trying to argue with me the other day about Russia and China being super good buddies and if Xi asked Russia to stop selling rare earths to USA then Putin would immediately comply for no reason other than the fact that they are BFFs.

>>513400617
Quite a good few hundred

>>513401416
>Russia does a protectionism
WAOW CHYNA IS ABOUT TO INVADE SIBERIA FOR REAL THIS TIME!!!

>>513401194
>for ukraine everyone's talking about must mean something
It means the same thing as it meant since 2014 for anyone in the west. NATO membership with their boots on the ground. But it's simply not happening.
Don't worry tho, I am very concerned. So you are concerning very well on your part.

>>513397037
>so yea the security and the peace through..ermm...security of the state against russia and...security
they could've had this conversation on the phone, bunch of clowns.

>>513401416
Does the fact that China has the Mandate makes you upset?

>muh heckin security guarantees from other countries!
Why would we need that Ukrainebros? I thought we were winning? 14:1?

>>513401405
So you think trump will stand up to the american people and say he'll give Russia everything they want without asking for anything in return? I'd like that, but it won't happen.

>>513401345
According to Douglas Macgregor Russians are using tanks as assault guns, similar to how they were used in Korea by the US. That's why I'm wondering whether BMP-3 is also used as a slightly more precise mortar instead of playing the typical role of an APC

>>513401194
If only you wouldn't have conveniently ignored the mention of already given security guarantees, that meant nothing.... then maybe i would take your cooooncerning serious.

Just found out that Poles call the Langfuhr district of Danzig >Wrzeszcz.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrzeszcz

wtf?! poles, explain yourselves!

>>513400093
Do not fret. All will be shot down, as per usual.

>>513401563
If you've followed the EU statements and the state of your own country since 2022, you would pretty visibly see that the whole ordeal runs on an engine of copium that bet hard on a total Russian collapse. Instead the pendulum swings the other way (economically) and it's just politically too volatile to go up on a podium and say: "Yeah, sorry. Guess we fucked up..."

>>513401594
But if Russia and China were real allies then Putin wouldn't betray Xi like this, right? UwU
>>513401583
Good. My hope is that the more Europeans die in this conflict now the less hunger NATO will have in sending troops to Ukraine in any official capacity.
>if only Putin was based enough to fire an Oreshnik strike on Ramstein Air Base

>>513401217
>Does pic rel happen IRL
Indeed.
Only problem that topological binding on tanks/IFV is harder than on regular artillery

>>513400093
but russia ran out of le heckin bomerberinos!

>>513396571
>plebbit spacing

>>513401694
The American people would be completely fine with dropping Ukraine altogether.

>>513401594
Seems a bit of an extreme take for Chinese poor quality goods. But if you want to to invade them, have at it.

>>513401694
Orange Cuck could say he's Jesus Christ tomorrow and nothing would change

>>513401217
There was a news interview where the soldier talked about how they used the BMP-3 100mm as artillery with fire correction provided by drones.

>>513401694
>So you think trump will stand up to the american people
What the fuck are "the American people" gonna do? Shoot him?

>>513401818
The American people would be fine if any of their leaders raped a child live on tv.

holhol monitoring channels report the takeoff of several Tu-95 strategic bombers from Olenya Airbase. This is it the Main Blow, D-Day!

>>513401694
In fact, all the European people would be fine with dropping Ukraine as well!
If it would be up to the people here, we wouldn't send a single Cent into hoholland!

It is the pro-NAFO idiots who force that shit down our throats.
If the will of the people would be any issue, then Ukraine would already be dead for two years now, because nobody wants this shit.

>>513401730
What the fuck is an "assault gun"? You mean using tanks to mobile provide indirect fire support because Msta-S is pigfat hueg?
If so I can promise you this was not a tactic "discovered" by USA in Korea.
>>513401741
>Brzęczyszczykiewicz
Nothing to explain. Poles just faceroll a keyboard when naming things

>>513401880
Is she included in the bmp-3? Where do I sign up?

/k/eddit is having a melty right now, lol

>>513402007
its magasin right?
store in french

>>513401811
>being this new
Welcome to the thread, niqqa
>>513401889
I see Venti is acclimating well to Texas life

>>513401988
>What the fuck is an "assault gun"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_gun

>>513401694
yeah because its not for trump to decide whats gonna happen since russia is in a dictating position since its won the war and west has nothing more to do, even escalating to ww3 will only increase scale of their defeaat.
losers in war get nothing, thats how it goes.
and trump doesnt need to give putin anything, he can just say "not my problem".

>>513402029
whatever for?

>>513401918
It's a pretty modest number of bombers
Though it is very based to bomb Ukranny as Elensky and Euro-peons are with Orange Cuck, assuming it is a combat sortie

>>513402029
link you queer

>>513401734
I read what you wrote. But this is about the american empire announcing its surrender in ukraine. I just don't believe they'll do it unconditionally. But there's no point in arguing about it any longer. I'll come back when the time comes. Then I can either say I told you so, or admit my mistake.

it proves that r/uhg was lying about cutting of the bunny's ears (I hope someone saved screencaps of their bullshit)

>>513402029
>/k/eddit is having a melty right now
lol
what's going on over there? why are they crying? going to guess it's because trump is a russian asset!
post screencaps :D

>>513400828
14 dead ziggers for every dead Ukrainian

>>513401074
Did you read what Gideon Rachman wrote about NATO military officers and European politicians' assessments off the record?

>>513401889
dey will pussyfoot around the matter like always

>>513402162
>Lost against Yemen twice
>Lost against Afghanistan
>Lost against Iran
Orange Cuck will pretend they won and that'll be that

>>513402206
27:1, 60+

>>513402162
No, this is about security guarantees that might be given by Eurocucks. You are talking about security guarantees. Don't change the subject you dishonest nigger.

The USA isn't going to give any guarantees to Ukraine. It is only Eurocucks wanting to do that.
And there are already Eurocuck countries who did it and they were completely and utterly irrelevant.

>>513402206
so true my sita, now get in

>>513401647
I was thinking similar while picking up groceries. What was even the point of this emergency meeting? I can only assume behind closed doors Trump said something like "Russia gave us their terms. Figure out your response. If you continue as is, I'm walking away and the Russians are now your problem."

Unconfimed reports that Zelenskyy has agreed to formally cede Crimea to Rusia in return for a path to NATO membership and security garuantees backed by the U.S. military until membership is achieved. It's over.

>>513402162
>I just don't believe they'll do it unconditionally
What kind of leverage do they have against ruskies to get them to agree to their demands?What are they willing to give in exchange for what they demand? You people keep claiming that ruskies will agree to whatever west agrees while they will get scraps thrown at them by the west.Also you will never admit you made a mistake,you will come here next time and claim that this was never you like all of you faggots do because your ego will not allow you to admit to a mistake

>>513401776
>>513401880
So what makes fire correction for dedicated artillery pieces different than tanks? I thought all the instruments involved are more or less similar

>>513401988
I guess what he meant is that instead of advancing on targets with infantry support (which is what we've seen from the Ukraine's side during the counteroink) they act as a more precise version of artillery and just spam fortifications with HE from some distance

>>513402206
I can only imagine Russians abducting Ukranian girls, just to take pictures of her feet and then drop her off unharmed.

>>513402206
<3
kissu kissu :*
chuu chuu :*
S2

>>513402326
>And there are already Eurocuck countries who did it and they were completely and utterly irrelevant.
IIRC it was only bongs and they go into effect only after the SMO ends
>We could stop Ukranny being slaughtered and defeat Russia, but we just don't want to, but we will start to want to at some point in the future

>>513402085
Claimed they pushed back the bunny. Bunny still remains. Azov took heavy losses. The only gains they had were sabotage groups that likely weren't even there. The Russian main army came in behind them though and beat the shit out of Azov.

>>513402206
which one fucked you the hardest

FUCK russia

>>513402050
It's "magazin"
>>513402068
Thanks!
TIL a new classification for something that sits between a tank and an IFV.
Personally I don't get it. Less armor and thus more susceptible to being destroyed but carries a 75-95mm cannon? Maybe ditches the turret all together like the Soviets did with ASU-85?

Not going to second guess thousands of engineers, designers, and military leaders, but sometimes military weapons system design feels like splitting hairs to me. Also the wiki article makes it sound like only US still actively develops "assault guns"?

Picrel: German QT boi

>>513402438
She's mine you dumb monkey Brazilian fucking nigger piece of monke shit asswipe

>>513402408
I agree to cede London to Starmer in exchange for Emma Watson's maidenhead

>>513402408
>1pbtid
>Brit flag
>unconfirmed reports
>no source
the classic

>>513402206
Is this why you're too afraid to join the military little coward? Now is the right time i hear the ukrainian military has the ziggers on the run.Which means now is the perfect time to join to reap in on the glory and get a chance to kill the lasst of the ziggers while you advance on donetsk

>>513402408
That's hella epic. In 2022. Too bad.

>>513402408
Crimea de jure for NATO accession? You're dumb.

>>513396434 (OP)

Well, whatever that cocaine addict was saying, that aide standing behind him had a thoroughbred’s thighs, I can tell, and a inviting little thigh gap too… is a night with her part of the package when you’re a world leader?

>>513402206
Why hello there, why the revision? i thought it was 500 to one, would you like to talk about it over dinner?

>>513402325
none of what they say is even consistent:
>>513401681

>>513402326
Lmao. I already said yesterday that you should start reading soviet geopolitical authors. The idea that european nations act independently demonstrates a complete lack of education about post-ww2 european history.

>>513402512
Just don't start posting unrequested pictures again.

>>513399561
If it's not a treaty on paper it doesn't exist in international law.
And NATO fucking hates treaties, at least treaties that say anything except "u iz our niga nao".
They KNOW only a treaty between NATO and Russia can truly settle this conflict (previously known as the "Cold War") - that in itself Ukraine is just an unwitting (retarded) tool in.
Russia on the other hand already had their issues with NATO "promises" and "guarantees", so they will insist on a treaty.

>>513402521
>Emma Watson
The hag is like 20 years past her prime.

>>513402600
Did you not notice most of zelenskys skits had naked men in them?

>>513400917
Methinks it needs two more photos on the extreme right and left.

>>513402618
27 flash frozen hohol meatcubes to 1 Russian hero is the total of body exchanges

>>513402642
It's common because people are fed up with libshit and cuckservative politicians. But you're right in this.

A reminder gentlemen
New gen azog has not won one battle they were involved in

>>513402512
powerful...

>>513402642
I never said or implied anything like that.

Factually, Denmark gave security guarantees to Ukraine already.
Factually, they are worthless.
Factually, anything any Eurocuck does is only for propaganda and optics, since they are vassals.
This explains why their security guarantees are irrelevant.

>>513402516
you kraut nigger faggot, your country is using her like a human shield against russia
i will love and cherish her

and then we will hold hands and cuddle in bed, lewd stuff

Hmmmm

The evil empire should not exist. A world without russia would be a much more peaceful place.

>>513402674
That's the joke, me deflowering Emma Watson is exactly as likely (0%) as Ukranny joining NAFO

>>513402328
>>513402325
Not sure this is the kind of advertising that TONAR was hoping for.
>>513402421
>makes fire correction for dedicated artillery pieces different than tanks
I am guessing Rem was referring to max barrel elevation. Tanks are not going to be able to lob a shell in quite as high of an arc and thus may be unable to engage targets behind a hill or other terrain feature.

>>513402417
I have come here several times and said that I was wrong in my assumptions.

>>513402512
I am not gonna have sex with you hyhylyna

>>513401217
why not, 100mm isn't exactly powerful but doable on short distances especially with amount of surveillance drones Russia has
I'm surprised nona turret was not adapted to BMP or MT-LB chassis yet and used in every mechinized infantry brigade

>>513402512
agreed

>>513396434 (OP)
>logo
Missed opportunity to put "boss zigger"

>>513397661
qrd on this fags use of "ZZ" ?

>starlink is still offline
>massive air strike rumored
>trump made emergency call to putin
hmmmmm

>>513402521
The bitch had already been deflowered by the time she appeared in the OG HP movie.
And her feet are ugly.

>>513402718
This only proves russia takes more clay with dead soldiers on it than ukraine, not any K/D ratio.

>>513402694

I don’t know about that and he can be as queer as a three dollar bill for all I care, I’m just talking about the aide

>>513402803
He is not going to agree

>>513402883
Oh no, not two at the same time.

>>513402664
Minsk 1 and 2 were also treaties, anon =3
>>513402908
Is Starlink having "glitches" a regular thing now?

>>513402421
>artillery pieces different than tanks?
Fact that we use artillery compass that can used by officer to make instant fire setup/use already existed electronic firecontrol system and tankers ALWAYS suffer with reverse-topological task and azimuth indicator because no one gives a shit about tank indirect firing since end of WW2 and all this things they do manually

>>513402807
>A world without russia would be a much more peaceful place.
True

>>513402087
They have nukes!

>"Putin the fucking EU leaders want to give you a shitty deal, what do I do?"
>"THD."
>"Agreed."

>>513402408
>zionsky is giving something he doesn't have
lul

>>513402512
>>513402883
>2 leaf hoholinas
/chug/ wtf???

calm down hoholinas, there are enough ziggers for every hoholina

>>513402803
I'd call my buddy to.

>>513402514
Armor =/= armor. Most later WW2 tanks would fare better against drones than the modern cuckboxes, simply because they had a thicker roof. Modern heavy tanks only have armor in the frontal 120° (if they are lucky), and only against shallow hits from 0 to 30° from the horizontal.
>basically like a battleship armor belt
And the fate of battleships they shall share.
Very rarely has MBT armor proven to actually be useful; you are better off with medium armor all around and trying to not get hit by heavy shit, instead of putting heavy armor on the front only and hoping the heavy weapons hit you in the front where everybody knows the armor is.
This entire 1960s tank paradigm is dead, since the 1980s at minimum.
>a tank meeant to survive being shot by other tanks, while shooting said tanks, which also survive
>???
totally realistic scenario

>>513402803
Too good to be true.
Would have been hilarious if Trump dialed Putin and then put him on loud speakers
>"Hello Vlad, can you hear us? Zelenskii is here. Say "hi" to Vlad, Zelenskii!"
Multilateral peace conference achieved, Piss Prize incoming.

>>513402803
"Okay peons, shut the fuck up, I have an important call to make"

>>513403132
A lot of tanks are under the impression air superiority reduces chance it gets hit. Merkava tanks in kike land still heavy armor everything yet rpgs still take them out.

>>513402993
Oh, I see. Makes sense that arty gets better / more integrated equipment than other vehicles.

>>513403240
>Okay peons

It's baking time my ziggas

>>513402979
Bit of a stretch to call it a treaty; a protocol is more like a guideline; also it was between hyhyls and the separatists, not between Russia and NATO, who were only slowly beginning to get actively involved.

>>513402785
>picrel
Based
>and then we will hold hands
Based
>cuddle in bed
Based
>lewd stuff
Based

>>513402818
>Tanks are not going to be able to lob a shell in quite as high of an arc and thus may be unable to engage targets behind a hill or other terrain feature.
Not only that. Gun elevation higher than 45° needs only if your target needs to be blowed directly from the top but that's reduce fire range. In practice any same artillery commander try reach target from max range and hide away.

Is this the biggest moment of suspense we've ever had?

>>513397282
ww3

>>513403437
NOTHING

EVER

HAPPENS

>>513403132
>thicker roof
But shaped charges were a thing since the 40s, we just didn't have a way to deliver them in top-down attacks?
Not arguing. There are so many nuances with armor (its composition, slope angle, any other defensive tech like reactive armor) that I just don't touch the topic.

If I was a tanker in this war I would want something that gives me just enough protection from artillery/mortar shell fragments. Dump the rest of my stats into speed. Also an external ammo store in a blowout compartment would be nice so I at least have a few seconds to ditch if hit.
Or just fuck my shit up and drop an antidrone cuckshed on me. That works too.
I wonder how "cuckshed tech" will evolve after the war is over and there is time to test and standardize things.

>>513403494
Trump should call them out for being war mongers.

>>513402782
The danish security guarantees primarily provide for ukrainian weapons production on danish soil. And they only apply after the end of the smo. But I agree, that was probably mainly propaganda.
Germany is moving in a similar direction with its $1 trillion fund. I'm now wondering who they intend to produce all these weapons for if ukraine should get demilitarized.

Okay faggots I'll bake but I expect tons of gratitude

>>513403132
nigger, in ww2 penetration was like 200mm
in current times penetration is like 2000mm
more so over mobility kill means dead tank cos it will be followed by artillery

tanks just dont have openings anymore to serve anything other than tip of a spear or some hit n run while in ww2 they could just drive around however the fuck they wanted and ambush at will. they also were hard to take out cos you can park something heavy 1km in front of at gun BATTERY and unless they have b2 or flak88 or any other heavy hitter tank would be fine.

Baker is dead.
I am new baker.

BAKING
>BAKING
BAKING
>BAKING

>>513403630
Long live the baker!

>>513403437
biggest moment of nothing ever happens perhaps cos I already forgot about it

>>513397927
rename it to ai slop retard

>>513403276
tanks have specialized sights for tank stuff, that shit takes half of the turret front
and you got 5km range probably for tanks, less for bmps
you can shoot over a hill but not very big one and not very accurately

>>513403630
>nigger timer
OK, baking in 5 minutes unless someone wants to stop being lazy first.

>>513403708
>>513403560

Something has to happen sooner or later, always has.

>>513403132
also russia had cluster il2 bomblets which raped rooftops of german tanks

Migrate at your leisure.

>>513403712
>>513403712
>>513403712
>>513403712

>>513403614
I still don't understand how an artillery crew can hit an armored vehicle that's abandoned in a random spot in a field. Do they just "walk" the shells in with drone fire correction help? Videos make it seem like it's from first shot.
Artillery art is magic.

>>513403787
yeah, another 2 weeks

>>513403606
It's almost as if "security guarantees" of Eurocucks are a great way to claim that you got something out of it, while you actually lost.

You know, claim victory and fuck off... what the USA does all the time in every single one of their lost wars...

>>513403888
drones have coordinates on their screens you can see it on drone hit video
operator does hit on a vheicle, phones in coordinates to arty battery, minute later package arrives

>>513403562
In essence, yeah; even in more modern times hitting a tank on top with a shaped charge was difficult and required a guided missile or a lot of luck. A random artillery shell hit to the top, or even a lucky mortar, would also destroy it tho. Until the 80s they were still somewhat focused on shooting the top of the tank with large caliber autocannons/gatlings, which is very cost effective but also has obvious drawbacks, like flying around over a bunch of enemy tanks and taking a ZSU 23-4 to the face.
It's really not difficult to see how a great many post WW2 tanks were flawed designs, and that the entire paradigm was stupid. What's most mind-boggling is that there's no real reason to not design better tanks.
Almost like military is obsessed with tradition.
>your Guardsman father died while serving in this relic tank, and so will you

>>513403614
Doesn't change that an Abrams roof is like 1 inch thick.

>>513403132
Armor doctrine was not about Tanks fighting tanks. Tanks break through positions, so they need decent side armor to actually break...through. Fixed guns take out tanks, infantry take out fixed guns. There was a rock-paper-scissors to it. Early Germany in ww2 had such doctrine and armor roles. They descended into the single-all-purpose tank meant to fight tank on tank. Soviets were all, "wait, how about we just churn on T-34-85s en masse and a couple heavier ones? Then we put a German in charge of NATO and were like "what if we do the thing that helped lose the war?" We Americans then had such air superiority it didn't matter what our tanks did - not that there was a breakthrough again for decades. Tanks don't fight Tanks, unless you're a child.