Thread 513552745

It's a status symbol. There's a lot of americans who don't have families and work in warehouses or some shit, and they spend a huge chunk of their take home pay on a huge truck.

>>513552745 (OP)
pickup is extremely impractical in most of EU.
they are however very useful here, but we barely have any.

>>513552745 (OP)
>comparing a modern pickup to a 1970s budget car from recession-afflicted UK
retard

>>513552745 (OP)
stupider with money. 80% of men who drive these never haul a single load.

>>513552745 (OP)
Epa CAFE standards and a debt based economy.

SAME EXACT CAPACITY

>>513552821
Greek islands are full of pickup trucks, it's like every villager owns one. Can't remember if I've seen one in rural Serbia

>>513552879
I wouldn't mind to get a tacoma, I just wonder how much trailer I can haul

>>513552745 (OP)
EU bureaucrats want you to own nothing and be happy

>>513552745 (OP)
Yes they are. Have you somehow missed that Americans are either filthy rich or filthy poor and homeless? Software engineer in Finland makes like 60k a year and 150k in USA, where groceries, gasoline etc. cost like 1/3 of what they cost in Finland.

>>513552745 (OP)
Why would any European want to drive that? Looks like shit and is wasteful as fuck. I'd rather walk.

>>513552745 (OP)
A truck isn't a car morons.

>>513552745 (OP)
Unchecked arms race
Who wants to be driving around in a small car on the same roads as civilian tanks

>>513552745 (OP)
our streets were built in the middle ages and those cars would struggle in most european cities due to their size

fuel is much cheaper in usa in EUROPE u would pay your entire paycheck to buy a fuel for this fucking monster

>>513552981
>Can't remember if I've seen one in rural Serbia
If you can't remember, probably not. Personally i love pick up but i have no need for one so i have station wagon, ive only seen a few pick ups in personal use, but quite a lot managed by organizations.

>>513552745 (OP)
There's an old woman in my neighborhood who drives a Titan with the seat all the way foward lol.

>>513552815
>We tried to have the city steal it, but it was too big :(
Based truckfag.

>>513552745 (OP)

No they're in crazy amounts of debt.

My coworker drives a truck he bought for ~$55,000 and his monthly payment on it is about $1000 a month. Don't even know what his insurance payment is. We make $16 an hour. Probably half his paycheck goes directly to paying off the truck and insurance on it.

Most manufacturers make larger and larger pickup trucks to get around emission regulations. That is to say we are pushed to drive big impractical trucks by the government.

>>513552745 (OP)
God I wish could own a raptor

>>513552977
I have some doubts about that.

>>513553253
Nope, he is getting a very big fine anon

>>513552745 (OP)
Once you've driven a large SUV or truck, you have to be a masochist to want to go back to a cuckmobile. Anything else to reason otherwise, is cope.

>>513553140
Gas in the US is about 65 Euro cents per liter.

>>513552745 (OP)
Our shittiest poorfag states are economically on par with the richest yurofags, but retarded emissions laws also contributed to this. Basically Obama made it so trucks have to be comically huge now to comply with emissions standards.

>>513553276
>raptor
So you wan to be gay? Ok
Silverado is the straight white mens choice

>>513553272
>environmental regulations mean gas guzzlers
I don't believe it

>>513552745 (OP)
country dweller va city dweller

>>513552745 (OP)
You cannot park a Chevy Suburban in Britain. Tesco spaces are tight even if you're in a Twingo. And forget multi-storey lots. The spaces have no depth, and you'll catch the roof at the entrance to any ramp. Britain has been trying for ages to make driving a mean and utterly pleasureless experience.

>>513553362
And here is 2 euros for premium gas

>>513552977
You can clearly see that more.boxes and shit will fit.in the.larger truck though

>>513553375
emmm why is Germany still divided in this graph?

I would love a small truck to move furniture and bulky stuff with that isn't fuck huge but unless you want to get something that has 200k+ miles on it you're out of luck. I don't care about towing at all.

I know the only reason they're gone is EPA regs but trump could kill those and he hasn't. Until those are gone only fuck huge trucks will be sold.

>>513552977
sure if you could mash evrything down into a cube

>>513552745 (OP)
The eurocuck compact fears the American bvll piggup trug

>>513553465
*vs

>>513553299
2.54 cm per inch, so maybe sort of true

>>513552745 (OP)
Big trucks, small trucks, small cars, suvs... if it has turbos, egr, cam phasing, variable valve timing, overhead cams etc. It is a piece of junk. Period.

It's so depressing seeing people talk about motor vehicles on this board. All they are interested in is the size, look, etc. I personally like big trucks but whether the truck is big or smol it should still have a well made motor.

>>513553417
>Silverado
Pablo hands typed this post
Chevy trucks are for brownoids, real white men drive RAM

>>513552977
That F700 can carry nearly 25,000 lbs. That's about 100,000 hamburgers or nearly a dozen average sized American patriots.

>>513553417
Silverados are for beaners and larpers

>>513553272
A big truck is only impractical of you live in a suburban or rural area.

But yes CAFE creates pressure for larger trucks. That's why the only halfway decent vehicle in production in the world today are the gas burner F250s.

>>513553612
>>513553635
Suck it up, Chevrolet master race !

>>513552745 (OP)
americans love giving the oil jews more money.

europoors have no idea

>>513553276
I´d own an old Viper if I really wanted to drive shartistani cars.

>>513553754
Oh god the motor autist Luddite that appears all the time. Most motors are fine

>>513553417
Silverado is currently not so great. The k1500s from like 88-2010ish were probably the best trucks though.

If you had to buy a truck today it would probably be an f250 it is the least worst of the bunch right now.

t. I drive a gmt400 and a chevy squarebody.

>>513552745 (OP)
Americans love going into debt for shit they don’t need. I see retards in the suburbs drive these

>>513552815
High testosterone

>>513552745 (OP)
Europeans are low testosterone

>>513552820
What a low testosterone comment

>>513553473
That's because Europeans are low t

>>513552815
>too big to be towed
Kek. Should've probably tried anyway just to see what happens

>>513553500
You could take 15-20ish grand and end up with a truck today that would be a near perfect automobile if you knew what you were doing.

>>513553140
Yeah. Ive been paying ~$3.00 a gallon. Thanks Trump. Love my gas guzzler

>>513553849
Most motors are not fine. The only decent motor today is the 6.8 and 7.3 Ford. There is an assumption that if it is being manufactured it must be a good motor.

This is not true. It takes only a basic understanding of motors to see why 90% of modern vehicles are garbage.

>>513552815
Substitute the amerifat truck with an american and the towing truck with an ambulance

>>513553754
Suburban or urban* lol

>>513553500
>they're gone is EPA regs but trump could kill those and he hasn't
CAFE regulations were ended like a month ago. It'll take time for manufacturers to start making and selling new cars that dont meet the CAFE standards (which are now gone)

>>513553872
I know a guy who bought a Silverado last year and is still in love with it. Granted he has a farms and actually uses it instead of flexing like I intend to do one day. Plus the design looks great

>>513552745 (OP)
Americans in general are significantly richer than their European counterparts. Upper middle class white collar professionals with good jobs in Europe have a similar quality of life as lower class poorfags in America.
Average middle class Americans can afford large, detached single family homes in nice suburban neighborhoods, multiple new cars, frequent vacations, boats, etc and have a standard of living that is only available to the very richest Europeans.

>>513554179
Manufacturers will just hold out for a new administration instead of undoing a decade of fucking their vehicles and getting back to anything approaching quality. It would take five years minimum to even get back to uncucked vehicles anyways.

>>513554086
OH MY GOD IS THAT A TURBO??!?? WHAT A PEICE OF OVERCOMPLICATED SHIT. Even your precious 6.8 has evil vvt lol.

>>513554183
Silverado is alright

>>513552745 (OP)
Yes, but it wouldn't matter. Europe has multiple cities with clearances that were built for two horses side by side, at most. And not a few that only allow foot passage at 2 wide.

>>513553004
>GDP per capita
>richer
lmao that depends how much of that actually goes to the average joe and how much the jews keep.
In Purchasing Power Parity you guys are behind Chyna

>>513552977
Americans want those trucks. We're kind of not allowed to have them, though. Something like,
>"Well, you can import the truck and drive it, but not on public roads"
wow

>>513552820
>status symbol
It's just compensating. Its not a "status symbol" you negro.

>>513552999
They're OK but fuckin suck gas like they have a big asa v8 in em but it's a v6

>>513554183
I live on a farm, I wouldnt buy a new Silverado for anything. The only non-small-displacement motors have active fuel management, EGR, and VVT.

>>513552815
Only someone from Europe or South/Central America could make a pickup truck look that gay.

>>513554281
Yeah. That's probably what will happen. Hopefully not, and republicans keep winning and dont bring back CAFE or any other eco bullshit. I dont think any manufacturer has a non CAFE compliant vehicle in the hopper ready to go. I agree that its at least few years out, if manufacturers decide to sell non CAFE compliant vehicles

>>513552981
That's like Mexico. Living in a single room cinder block house with a tin roof but have a new F-350 parked outside. Are Greeks the Mexicans of Europe?

>>513554463
What animals do you have ?

>>513554463
You could always run your engine lean, the question normally was on if your oil and valves could handle the lack of air cooling.
>>513554625
He keeps Russians. Why? Are you holding Pakis?

>>513552745 (OP)
Every truck should be a Toyota Hilux, and I say that as a jeepfag

>>513554308
Actually a 6.8 DOESNT have VVT kek. It has cam phasing which is a similar idea but somewhat better even though not ideal. But you're basically too stupid to understand the difference I guess. Also I would note on a pushrod motor youre only phasing one cam- not two cams on the top of the motor.

But no- the 6.8 and 7.3 are not perfect. But compared to ever other motor in production, they are big displacement naturally aspirated push rod motors with no EGR and no active fuel management.

Anyways, turbos are one of the worst things that can be on a car for a reliability, point of failure, repairability standpoint. Inherentlybinferior motors.

>>513554246
Yuropoors get told so many lies about America by the embedded media.
If 20% of us yuropoors would realize how rich a college educated White American is, many governments would find an abrupt end.

The future is about two things mostly:
- Distance to diversity and AI surveillance
- Access to new healing medical procedures, anti aging etc.

>>513553039
>Why would any European want to drive that? Looks like shit and is wasteful as fuck.

It's extremely obnoxious and gay
But I guess it has it's uses

>>513553014
American here. Engineer. $175k in Midwest. No debt. $1200/mo mortgage on 2.5 acres w/ 2 story home and barn (including home insurance) is my only payment (other than utilities). Well over 1/2 million in savings.

>>513552815
>our infrastructure is shit! stupid Americans
yuropoors are so pathetic

>>513554625
Just a dog, about half of it is in row crops the other half is woodland. Row crops are peanuts, corn, and cotton.

>>513552745 (OP)
CAFE standards.

You can get around MPG requirements by increasing the wheelbase of the vehicle. That's why we have no compact trucks anymore.

>>513552977
Both hold only 2 people so yeah.

>>513553612
First
On
Race
Day

>>513553375
I’m so glad my ancestors got the fuck out of Italy. Imagine having the option to leave and deciding to stay. Yuropoors are retards.

>>513553014
And what's the secret to it all? Show up to work on time and not hung over. Save money instead of make payments on low-IQ toys (truck payment). That's all there is to it.

>>513552820
The truck is the largest asset they will ever have. they won't ever own houses so the next biggest thing is a giant bro truck. someday they might be living in it anyways

>>513554710
Cam phasing is essentially vvt you mook. You larpers are horrid as turbos are completely fine along with most stuff now. Is changing a turbo every 200k ish that bad? Having to change your oil instead of neglecting it?

>>513552745 (OP)
Huge ass cars are a thing in the US because of regulations. More Americans would probably like the old style pick up trucks but we are literally not allowed to make or buy them.

>>513553612
RAM has been junk since they scrapped V8s. They are currently supposed to be rolling out an apology tour and going back to V8s though so we will see. My hopes are not high though.

>>513554374
Switzerland is the king of the yuro favela, but still, just compare the lot sizes of real estate. That alone says we are fucked. Or that White middle class Americans casually own power boats. Houses on Zillow usually have a secondary garage for "toys". Meanwhile, German robotics engineers have to rent bicycles from their employer.

>>513554909
Cam phasing is not VVT you doink. As I said they are similar concepts but one is dynamically adjusting the valve timing and the other is literally actuating the came. Two different approaches but sort of similar.

You tried to be a wise guy and got caught and now you look stupid. As a techbical matter VVT is NOT cam phasing. Dont try to dig the hole deeper clown.

ChatGPT
>Pickup trucks in the U.S. have grown dramatically in size over the past few decades largely because of regulatory loopholes. Federal fuel economy and emissions standards are stricter for passenger cars than for “light trucks,” a category that includes pickups, SUVs, and vans. Automakers discovered that by classifying more vehicles as trucks, they could meet looser efficiency targets while selling larger, more profitable models. Safety and design rules, such as less stringent crash-test requirements for trucks and tax incentives for business use, further encouraged manufacturers to make pickups bulkier and heavier. The result is today’s oversized pickups, shaped more by regulation than by consumer need.

>>513552815
Based Americhad truck cockblocking virgin Eurotram and cucking small euro cars at the same time. Someone make a Pepe edit of this lol

>>513552745 (OP)
Gasoline costs like 3 euros per gallon in the US.
Gasoline in Europe costs around 8 euros per galon.

>>513554179
Regulations weren’t ended, just had the fine dropped to $0, so it’s not really a safe bet to start making those trucks again, that is if our manufacturers were even capable of doing that at all, they’re all stagnating hard and unable to make anything good as it is. I doubt they even have the R&D research to know that people want those kinds of things, and certainly don’t have the free scratch to develop them now. Nor do I trust that the manufacturers have been sitting on any plans to do them either. Kind of a step in the right direction but really not enough.

>>513552745 (OP)
It's cheaper in the US to have a pick up truck like this than an actual car because of retarded laws and regulations, barely anyone actually uses them for hauling anything.
That's why pick up trucks are slowly morphing into regular cars, just with a trailer integrated in them.

>>513555076
Cam phasing is a simpler version but in the end it’s still evil magic to you. Most modern engines are fine and go longer than engines of old in most applications.

>>513552745 (OP)
In rural areas, it's practically a requirement for most people. I don't know why someone would need a personal truck in a city though.

>>513554880
Let's say you grow up in Germany. You are a bit wise to the system already, so you become an entrepreneur. You work for a few years, you get to know the system. You now know the international value of your business. You look at America, the ease of doing business, the taxation, the mindset. So you want to leave. You talk to the "tax consultant". He tells you that you have to pay 13x your yearly profit as a tax, to be able to leave the country. Even for a small trades shop that is barely surviving, that's a million to pay, JUST TO BE ABLE TO LEAVE. And it's not the only tax.

>>513552745 (OP)
>richer
They pay years for this shit monthly up to 1000$ they don't really own it it's pretty much leasing the same with their houses which they don't own either the banks own it.
They lack culture and have to compensate with material wealth like all shitskins do too.
Our gas prices are much higher and even many rich people here drive some shitbox. They don't have to tell everyone how rich they are.

>>513555230
All they'd have to do is remanufacture like an iron block version of the LS3 tbqh. They already have the work done it would be better thab anything on the road today.

>>513553442
That's how retarded our government is.

>>513554685
I wish one day I can own a jeet farm like they have in Qatar

>>513554809
>Cotton
Cheap cotton was the most expensive mistake in American history

>>513552745 (OP)
We have insane spending power thanks to relatively low taxes. 30% effective tax rate is considered super high. No displacement, weight, or efficiency taxes to speak of, and sales tax is typically lower for cars than for school supplies. Gas is like half the cost here than in Europe, outside of California. Add manufacturer-supported financing and a usually competitive dealership franchise network (don't like the offer you're getting? Drive like 25 minutes to the next guy and tell him to beat the first offer) and transportation is cheap. Our economy is built around debt, and car purchases are great for that.

>>513555286
Yes cam phasing is a different mechanism meant to accomplish a similar goal (particularly on a single cam motor). And yes VVT and cam phasing are both terrible things that make a motor inherently inferior. This isnt complicated.

You've introduced one hundred new points of failure, new bearings, new belts/chains, etc etc. to basically add a timing system on top of the timing system all for the purpose of fuel efficiency. The advantages are far outweighed by the costs in reliability, cost, repairability, etc. and thus it is inherently inferior.

>>513553442
When the Obama era EPA redid fuel economy requirements, they introduced "footprint" rules that scaled the required fuel economy on the length/width of the vehicles. Only they fucked up the scaling so that it is much easier to hit fuel economy goals with bigger vehicles than smaller ones. Now the recently passed "Big Beautiful Bill" basically eliminated fuel economy requirements, but will take time for manufacturers to adjust their products.

>>513553442
It's true, they put car manufacturers under so much pressure to comply with emission regulations that eventually they came up with an idea to shill pick up trucks as car replacements, since their regulations are more lax.

>>513555062
But you guys get free healthcare and college and gibs. Worth it?

>>513555515
That being said, certain things like housing are seriously expensive here no matter what you do. Renting is way worse here than in europe

>>513555596
I’ll take the free mileage. Just change your oil earlier and don’t be black. I trust no word of a man too retarded to think turbos are bad for some reason.

>>513552745 (OP)
Americans are all spiritual niggers. Who else thinks bigger = wealthier?

>>513555757
Everyone in europe gets taxed 50% and then gets private healthcare anyway, because public healthcare sucks ass

>free college
That one is accurate though

>>513555230
>Nor do I trust that the manufacturers have been sitting on any plans to do them either
I agree. I dont think any of them have anything ready to go

>>513552745 (OP)
America has small, gay cars too. It's just that no one wants to drive them.

>>513553612
the founders of (((dodge))) were kikes. Ford and Volkswagen are the true white man cars.

>>513552745 (OP)
I dont know how people can stand to drive and ride in these little cuck clown cars. Im 6’3” and would be entirely miserable if I was forced to drive in one of those for muh carbon footprint

>>513555887
Look you dont even understand that it is a problem to add 100 new points of mechanical failure onto already complicated motors. You're clearly basically an idiot who has no worthwhile input on the topic. "Umm akshually just change the oil sooner" kek get a grip clown. What's next you dont see the problem with a motor rebreathing exhaust gas??

The entire point of the turbo is to try and improve performance by cramming more air into a motor. In terms of robustness, simplicity, repairability, and reliability, this is obviously an inferior option to just having a simpler larger displacement motor (within reason).

>>513552745 (OP)
>drives mutt car around 70% euro cities
>gets stuck
we just figured it would just be easier to design the cars around the cities we already had for millennia. rather than knocking all the cities down and building new ones. just so that we could fit mutt cars into them.

>>513556040
The Dodge v. Ford lawsuit is what gave us our currently fucked system of preferencing shareholders over company welfare, owners and employees when it comes to distribution of profit.

>>513555962
Yeah, but no. Almost nobody pays 50% tax. You need like 10k a month income, and most people don't have that.
E.g. I make like 6k euro and pay about 35%.
Also no private healthcare, while slow at times, the system here still holds despite the niggers (for now)

>>513553375

What I don't understand about this is that if this is accurate, how do Euro's afford to go on holiday so much?

>>513552821
But you have Kamaz, no need for pickup trucks

>>513556076
Nobody drives those.
I don't really get those trucks. I am 6"1 many people taller, my Octavia is super comfy

>>513552745 (OP)
>American Dick vs european dick

>>513556166
I don’t agree with egr but some people do make points of keeping it to help keep cylinder temps down. I would rather have the turbo I had a 6.9 and it was a fucking dog compared to turbos. I want more power to move heavy things unlike your larpy ass.

>>513552745 (OP)
Nissan Titan is a great truck, I loved my 2009. Are the new ones good? Any issues with the engines/tranmissions? I have been considering a 2020-2024 model.

>>513553612
FCA's COO is a literal Mexican. Most of their non-diesel motors are made in Mexico and so are some of the trucks.

>>513556382
What an epic truck. THose fuckin ruskies are Crazy bastards! I wish I have one of these cool boxy units bros

>>513552745 (OP)
Average living space in UK is about 900sqft. It's over 2x that in non metro America. That's not as good as indicator of income and savings rates normally but it's a big indication of what we are used to compared to euros. This bleeds over to cars. Also we have eternal jogger populations that you have to be able to drive to gtf away from whereas the UK brown problem is brand new, only in the last couple generations

>>513552745 (OP)
europe doesn't have oil

>>513556311
We build pensions usually not included in income, so less need for saving (lol you should anyway).
Euro salaries are not that much worse than US compared to cost of living, with exception of 6 digit jobs, those are actually not that common in the US either.
We probably spend less on holidays, many people don't leave their country even, most people have like 25-40 days paid time off. Probably also impacts salary a lot.
I think the GDP and debt situation in US is a bit weird

>>513552977
>SAME EXACT CAPACITY
Okay, but what about the load limit?
>UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>513556304
Do you not have VAT? Road taxes?

>>513556756
Right, with Vat we do pay about 50%.
Road tax for my 2 cars is like less than 150 euro

>>513556447
Look dingus I have a 400sbc in one of my trucks and you actually think in your tiny mind your turbo'd cuck wagon is remotely better in any universe whatsoever?

Ive spent alot of time behind some of the best motors ever made. LS, sbc, perkins diesels etc. You'd have to be fuller than a hot air balloon on crack smoke to even remotely think some turbo charged piece of junk isnt inherently inferior.

>>513556548
that's ridiculous FCA was led by an Italian until he died and then they became stellantis.

>>513553352
I don't know if you've noticed, but normal passenger cars are basically extinct. Kia/Hyundai, Honda and Toyota are the only ones still making things that resemble traditional cars. Everyone is either making shitty mini-SUV hatchbacks, full-size SUVs or trucks. Oh, I guess Chrysler and the same Asian manufacturers I just listed still make mini-vans, too.

>>513554790
>No debt
>Mortgage
Anon...

>>513556413
Well Ive never seen an Octavia do I cant compare, but If I were in Europe i’d own an SUV. Not as large as a pickup but have enough utility to move shit around. I have a small pickup but mainly use the bed for hauling camping gear and guns around recreationally, or my surfboard. Since I wouldnt do any of that in Europe i’d just want an SUV. I feel like I cant see shit in a sedan and dont find the seating arrangement very comfortable, i like the taller profile of SUV/Trucks

>>513556872
Yes I am better. Way better than any Chevy fag with any of my 6bt engines or nu powerstrokes

>>513554901
You fuckers are retarded leftypol faggots.

>>513552745 (OP)
Rednecks are white niggers

>>513552745 (OP)
I drive a nice ass truck lol. 3/4 diesel 6 gen

i couldnt begin to haul my M4comp with those tiny POS euro cars. I use a f450

>>513557042
Ah look up the Octavia combi, it's not a sedan and has far more space than any SUV in Europe.

rednecks sold all their land to blackrock and now live in a 1 beedroom apartment in the innercity with their big cuck truck

>>513557204
you're a closet homo

>>513552745 (OP)
Why indeed...
>>513543901

>>513557043
My inline perkins 354 is about 10x the machine that turbo diesel piece of junk will ever be in any universe whatsoever.

God knows how many hours I have on one that has never seen the interior of a shop since it was manufactured.

>>513557278
thou mad little one?

>>513552745 (OP)
The size of trucks in the US is a direct result of emissions regulations. In short, it's more economical for auto makers to make a larger truck as opposed to a more fuel efficient one because of a gas milage/size-weight ratio. It's really that simple. There's no other reason. the trucks can't haul more than in decades past, they can't hold more volume in the back than in the past, and have less power overall.

>>513552977
>SAME EXACT CAPACITY
Things asian men tell women when they comment on their penis size?

>>513557043
Wait, you actually own a dodge?
Cuck

>>513552745 (OP)
I don’t really understand why people want such large trucks in the US. If you need to haul stuff, that’s one thing. Vans, trailers and large bed trucks are useful here. But that doesn’t seem to be why people get an F150. The bed is not useful, gas mileage is low, it’s super high off the ground so you have poor visibility and handling in tight spots. All around they seem super inconvenient. Someone explain it to me.

>Are American rednecks just richer than Europeans or what causes this?

no you are simply more retarded

you dont own shit most of you faggots never do its all on credit and you are on average all in crippling debt with no emergency savings. this was even the case pre covid

eurofags would own the same if you could get easy credit like you faggots do we dont in fact can be hassle just to get a basic credit card

>>513557278
fuck off loser, i pull this trailer, but mines matched paint to my truck

>>513557419
Emissions regulations make it more economical to make a giant gas guzzler rather than a small, efficient truck? I’m retarded. Explain this.

>>513557305
God you are mad about running horrid shit that can barely do anything. This engine will go a million miles working as will most of them.

>>513556567
They are extremely versatile, can be converted for any use. Military, Municipal, and even a Russian party in Kamaz
https://youtu.be/nUeOpNtXE34?feature=shared

>>513557445
I have two, honestly they are pretty decent. Gonna be shopping for a truck or two next year and might give the need ones a test drive. I hear they are gonna be putting glow plugs and zf8 transmissions behind them now which seems pretty good.

>>513552865
The Morris Mini came out in 1959.

>>513556076
The mini specifically is actually surprisingly spacious, the walls are just sheet steel and something like 90% of the car's volume is passenger/luggage compartment. It's very low so some people struggle to get in but I had 6ft+ people in the back seats without complaint when I had one in uni. Good fucking luck in a crash, mind you. And emissions? The car started production in 1959 and is probably rated worse than that truck. All the emissions schemes are usually just "car needs to be newer than " rather than anything sensible. Similar to how your EPA killed small trucks. In my experience there's no shortage of large SUVs even in central London.

>>513552745 (OP)
They don't fit.
Germany: 241 people per square kilometer
USA: 38 people per square kilometer

>>513557419
Cars had to be made smaller and more energy efficient so that trucks could be made bigger less efficient.
Trucks don't have to obey the laws because hillbillies are willing to take out a second mortgage to get gouged in the wallet.
Back in the day you could buy a brand new pickup truck for five thousand dollars.

We like big trucks

>>513552745 (OP)
Where is that video of the guy crashing the left side of his SUV? It was posted the other day.

>>513555596
Honda made made very reliable vtec engines.

>>513557546
Look clown I'm telling you I have 30+ year old perkins diesels that run like sewing machines and have NEVER BEEN WORKED ON ever. Kek

I have SBCs that I could simply pull and replace with crate motors for less than you could probably get your turbo replaced on that piece of junk.

>>513552745 (OP)
That’s a Japanese truck you fucking fag

>>513557481
What are you hauling in that trailer?

>>513552745 (OP)
Europe has been third world for like 20 years now.

>birth rates among the lowest in the world
>healthcare/school system collapse
>can't afford houses
>prostitution all time high
>brown people everywhere

I make less than 40k dollars a year and own a house, car, have children, haven't had to go to the hospital in over a decade, and I haven't seen a black or brown person in over two weeks.

>>513552815
In the US someone would have just hooked up a tow strap and drug it backwards or something.
Why are Europeans so "by the book"/weak/incompetent? Do none of you own a winch that would have easily drug that little 1/2 ton back two feet?
Why are you so fucking useless?

>>513557983
>Japanese truck
Yeah and this is an American car

>>513557975
Do you honestly think that’s special? That’s like the bare minimum for a mechanical diesel. Even a new one would probably be fine as long as it was run. Take your 50hp diesel and run along the rest of us have shit to do.

>>513553938
It's true though, that's like 90% of big truck people. Dudes that blew their money for no reason other than status when they don't even go outdoors.

>>513552815
ok i usually dislike americans but how can you look at this and not proclaim from your lungs BASED

>>513552981
>Can't remember if I've seen one in rural Serbia
there's no need, you can go everywhere and transfer anything just with a tractor or trailer+car combo if it's something lighter
i see more pickups in urban than in rural areas, and usually in suburbs

>>513554790
>no debt
>mortgage
Seems you can be dumb as fuck and still be an "engineer" in the land Under Semitic Authority

>>513556382
I love Russian trucks so much bros.

>>513552745 (OP)
>divide and conquer thread
>4 door light truck
vs
>morgan mini
It's not even comparing apples
Not even red apples and green apples
It's like apples to manhole covers
They have steering wheels, engines and a windshield
other than that, there is little in common
Might as well compare a cargo hauling semi with a motorcycle and call them the same because they both roll on asphalt

>>513557419
The 6.6 is rated to pull 32 thousand pounds in a 1 ton class

>>513553375
sure some billionaires prepping up the GDP affect your personal life and income

>>513553258
It's a smart thing to do if you're gonna use your truck to make money. A fucking retarded thing to do if you just want "muh truck"

>>513552745 (OP)
yes, obesity is a huge problem in America. Sad.

>>513552745 (OP)
Small penis buried in fat energy (left)
vs
Cock almost too big for the car energy

>>513552745 (OP)
Honda Ridgeline master race

>>513558327
Kek you think VVT is swell bozo what would you know about anything? While you are toting around pavers or something in your turbo cucked diesel I'll be dragging a disc harrow behind mine though remember that.

>>513552745 (OP)
American laws cause this, if they weren't fucking things up half the trucks would be mini trucks and the other half 90s hyluxes, but they need to sell cheaply made trains on wheel with an abysmal bed at retarded markups.
Now it's the same here with SUVs, piece of shit cars for millennial women that go through pollution testing easier due to retardation.

>>513557988
Your moms dildo

>>513554890
In 2008 Western Europe was as wealthy as the US.
Since then, EU has done everything possible to destroy the continent and has been more successful than commies used to be.
>Killing tech with regulation
>All trillions euros that could be spent wisely, went to gigantic "crisis packages" to South European shitholes.
>Killing traditional industry with Green Transition
>Other environmental directives that will kill economic growth for decades.
We're not fucked. We are dead.

>>513558894
Something like a 9th gen Ford or a GMT400 or even a squarebody is unironically a better truck than the hilux.

The hilux is what was available in third world countries that needed them. They learned to work on them, they made due with what they have and that together with a viral meme campaign resulted in a certain image of the vehicle. But mechanically they are inferior to many other similar sized trucks.

>>513558879
You act like I don’t have specialized equipment for fucking around in fields. Take the L bozo

>>513552745 (OP)
Towns that predate cars have narrow roads. Small cars make their life easier.

>>513558799
anyone that needs a truck to make money will buy a cargo van

>>513558858
Petulant entitled entoid pod dweller public transit using communist American wageslave detected.

>>513553375
And despite making more money than France or Germany your poorer state look like third world country.
GDP is a retarded metric.

>>513552745 (OP)
That's a Japanese car

>>513559207
What do we got here? An insurance farmer. Your "specialized equipment" is just another way of saying
>underwater equipment loan

>>513553258

Bet he gets more trim than you do tho

>>513552745 (OP)
Its extreme insecurity, they are losers in every sense and have to compensate.
They are dumb and poor and white. The three big L’s. Just ignore them they hate that. They are usually very loud for that reason too, basically white niggers.

>>513552745 (OP)
American trucks are comically large due to unrealistic emissions standards

>>513559452

He's obviously cutting alfalfa, not insurance. I thought you said you were a farmer. Insurance isn't even a fucking plant.

>>513559452
Why would I be underwater? The farm makes money and shit gets paid off. Are you projecting?

>>513558648
They are pretty chonky yes

>>513552745 (OP)
not an american truck - p.o.s. nissan or toyota

>>513557894
I would accept to be circumcised if I would get that truck.
Looks based as fuck.
Imagine driving this here on the streets.

>>513554790
Kek

Also no one pointed out
>half a million in savings
>no investments

>>513558648
just buy a Gradall 4100

>>513559735

And not paying off the mortgage either. Very strange financial decisions.

>>513559720
A friend of mine was stationed in Germany
He owned a big old truck
He was a very good driver
Some guy in a Daimler cut him off
He drove over the Daimler - no damage to his truck
The Daimler driver admitted to the Polizei that he cut off my friend because he thought my friend would brake and let him in because he was in a Daimler and nobody wanted to hit a Daimler
He thought wrong.
His car was crushed

>>513559700
>t. butthurt chevy recall owner

>>513553622
americlaps will use anything but the metric system, hahahaha

>>513552977
is that thing on the left what europoors refer to as a trolley?

ugly ass american turd buckets made for obese amerilards.

>>513558166
no shit

>>513557657
Owning a dodge begs the question: why?
If you are not a millionaire, why would you give the legacy of the dodge brothers your debt?
If you are a millionaire, why would you buy a dodge?
The answer is simple. You are a cuck. And you want them to cummins your wife kek

>>513552745 (OP)
I can pretty much fuck around for half a year and make as much money as a working class bong that works full time. If I don't act like a normal consumer, I can easily live a sustainable life in America for 20k a year. Including my mortgage which i kept reasonable. Didn't get some nice dream house or anything and I've had to put 15k of labor into it but it's a nice place.

>>513560497
My ford to dodge ratio is technically 5-1 cause the new ones aren’t dodges at all. They are just pretty solid in my experience.

>>513557043
the isb/qsb 6.7 is not a 6BT
And the new HO Powerstrokes are king right now. Dodge is 10 years behind (as usual)
Chevy can't make decent transmissions anymore either.
Is it true you had to show proof of your parents being related in order to purchase a Dodge truck? That's discrimination to non-inbred people.

>>513560777
B series is close enough, they have like 50% parts compatibility since a 6.7 is just a 5.9 bored out with fancy fueling. They don’t ask so I don’t tell kek. I do really like the fords now but I can’t tell a difference between the HO and the standard.

>>513553499
Because Prussia isn’t Germany and it’s only a matter of time before they annex north Poland again.

>>513561062
Basically a turbo with extra coolant passages on the inlet to supercool the incoming air for slightly better density and a more aggressive tune
I have driven both quite a bit, you can only really tell the difference when towing something up a grade. The HO does drink more DEF though, but that's not a problem if you hit a speed bump really, really hard and all that emission stuff gets lost on the road iykwim

What year was that (((european))) car originally manufactured/sold?
Enjoy your herbs for this wonderful thread OP. It's a nice break from uhg and ptg, just could use some semitism! shalom, or whatever you people say for goodbye

>>513552745 (OP)
Most hicks with a large and modern pickup truck go into huge debt to purchase one.

>>513561294
I feel like mine is down on power compared to the SO, probably cause of def clogging. I get the taken off and blown out every once in a while to help keep it healthy. Still a great driveline

>>513553598
What’s your favorite motor and why is it the boxer?

>>513557305
fuck perkins, they are gay
cat 3406 and international dt466 (not the dt466e) 4 lyfe

>>513561438
This will cause a another credit bubble and then other people can buy their repossessed trucks at reasonable prices. Niggers do this too btw, not just hicks.

>>513561659
Are boxers actually good? Porsche boxer or Subaru boxer?

>>513552745 (OP)
99% of the trucks i see are never carrying anything. clearly used as someone's commuting vehicle. this is the funniest thing to me because it's so unnecessary compared to a reasonable passenger car. actual soccer moms get more use out their mid-size SUVs than these dorks with the trucks to their desk jobs.

>>513561614
If you are going to the trouble to bake your DPF I would just go ahead and delete personally, unless you want to preserve that factory warranty.

This thread is now about side7's latest update to their revival of Gundam Evolution. I think it's fun to see a crossover between gundam and tf2, but maybe they could've pick another map instead of Harvest? Idk, cause I personally enjoy it in gunevo BUT some others don't seem to care for it much. What do you guys think?

>>513560673
>>513560777
>>513560497
I'll keep my F150 thanks

>>513561994
I have extended warranty on the HO to 150k so I’ll be keeping it to that. The SO has mysteriously stopped drinking at 170k so I’m just gonna roll with it.

>>513552745 (OP)
Vs. Asian vehicle.
Bingo bingo bongo

>>513553140
Why are Europeons so pathetic. What’s obnoxious about a truck you sound just like the commies in weimerica.

>>513552745 (OP)
americans are richer because they dont pay all kind of taxes, they dont have free medical and also because they work more days in the year than european. Also everything is more expensive in europe because all kind of bullshit rules that make everything more expensive, now the great emission allowances on gasoline, gas, diesel will make it way more expensive in upcoming years. European makes less and pays more.

>>513552815
This is a short bed too

>>513562071
19mpg is pretty good

>>513552820
I’m an office wagie and I drive an F150. Why? Because I can. Cope and seethe about it carcuck.

>>513552815
>become ungovernable

>>513562071
Go ahead?

>>513557894
How much do one of those tires cost?

>>513554790
Pay off your mortgage and start investing retard

>>513554246
>GDP per capita
What happens if you chop off the top 2% of people from each country and state and do the comparison again? What about the median yearly salary?

Because you can't tell me anyone believes the average resident of 80%+ black DC is making 250K a year. I doubt they're even better off than the Average Mississippian.

>>513561958
do you expect us to tow shit every fucking day or i am allowed to drop the trailer off at least 1-2 days a week my lord

>>513562071
ecobitch/powerbitch or 5.0?
because if it's the 5.0 I won't bully you

>>513562087
Understandable. Me personally I plant to drive my HO 6.7 into the ground and I am a heavy equipment mechanic already so I don't really care about the warranty.

>>513562102
Did he not know to try the door after the water inflow equalises the pressure? I thought Asians were smart.

>>513557542
Engine has to be big enough to do truck stuff. Small trucks have to meet tighter emissions standards so the engine needs to be smaller and you can’t tow/haul shit. Put the same engine in a bigger truck and it meets the emissions standards for bigger trucks. The regulations got rid of the small truck + powerful engine combo.

Also, cash 4 clunkers got rid of affordable used cars and trucks so now used car and new car prices are higher and smaller trucks are mostly gone.

tl;dr government intervention is best kept to a minimum

>>513558500
>BASED BASED BASED OH MY BASED
Kill yourself.

>>513562102
go away pajeet.

>>513552815
White whatever with black wheels always looks good.

>>513562834
Mythbusters did a test. You're not gonna be able to hold your breath long enough for pressure to equalize to open the door, you'll drown before then.

>>513562785
i'm talking about your flat bed being ALWAYS empty you nerd. no one with a truck is ever towing anything lol. that's the biggest meme out there.

i apologize if you actually use your truck for anything it's designed for but 99.9999999% of trucks on the highway are not EVER being used for anything beyond passenger transport. the passenger usually one guy with a tiny penis that likes to tailgate in the left lane when i am already going 15 over.

>>513552745 (OP)
I drive a truck. I built four buildings with it and have driven 50k miles through vast nothingness. I take a welder, compressor, and full toolkit every trip into the void across vast highways. I sometimes sleep in the back seat. Eurofags wouldn't understand because they drive 0.1km between towns on one lane cobblestone streets.

>>513552815
>>513553951
they could tow it
the problem more likely was there was little space to actually pack it on the ramp
and idk if the gool ol rope would cut it either, since the wheels would probably just lock up if they wanted to turn it onto the street

>>513552745 (OP)
Yes, the average redneck is a millionaire, with a decent percentage being multimillionaire. They tend to own large swaths of land and/or businesses.

>>513562550
Those ones are like $5k each. You could get skinnier tires for a sprayer that are just as tall and like $1k though.

>>513552745 (OP)
>Aksuly its communist if you dont buy a 100k truck and pay 200$ to fill up a tank if you do it for 20$ you are hurting the poor Shell corporations profits


I have no issue is small dicked fags wanting to get ass raped by US car/oil corporations but why not let people who want to buy brand new work trucks for 2k just do it I thought there was a free market?

>>513562785
>ecobitch/powerbitch or 5.0?
eco. and so far it's been a beast. the eco problems were on the 1.0 l. motors made in Brazil on fiestas and ecosports. the ones w/ 2.7 or 3.5 are solid. the technology is amazing from an engineering standpoit - that's why it took this long for GM to try it (the 1.3 single turbo in the tRax) and forget Avantis (or wtf it's Dodge owner us called now) - they don't want to sink R&D as long as they have the hemi aura to rest on

>>513561827
Are you kidding? The boxer motor is the easiest to fix, most reliable, and simplest motor ever produced. Porsche is famous for them in the 912 but Subaru also makes a decent, albeit smaller boxer which is reliable but doesn’t produce much power. Hell BMW still uses it in their motorcycles.

>>513552865
>>513552745 (OP)
Those original minis are no where near as small as the new ones

>>513552745 (OP)
America is filled with big dick niggers. So they have to cope and compensate with a large car to reinforce their masculinity.
It's really pathetic

>>513552745 (OP)
>amerimmutfats need a car the size of a truck or else they will not fit in and the car will break
>they also think this is a flex against europeans who can aford to fit in and commute in human sized cars

>>513552745 (OP)
Truckolds are fags, but that's not a "car." We have actual cars that are forced to meet gay environmental standards, but the automobile industry created a carve-out in the law for "light-duty trucks" up to 8500 lbs, because they were primarily considered agricultural and industrial vehicles rather than pavement princesses at the time the law was written back in the late 1960's.
>>513553500
The Honda Ridgeline exists and is made in Alabama, but truckolds will hate you because it's unibody rather than body-on-frame like their Mexican Toyota Tacos.

>>513552820
That's a sad pathetic status symbol. What's ridiculous is for the same money wasted on their trash trucks they could get real status symbols. It's like gymrats who think all the girls will want them but all the comments come from homo beefcake gym dudes. clueless.

>>513552815
This is europe in a nutshell - they talk shit all they want but once they come face to face with an American they wont do shit but cry and complain quietly in their little houses until the American decides to move his own fat ass when he feels like it.

the EU is a collective of the most pathetic people on this planet - they deserve islam

>>513552745 (OP)

...the car on the left is stil ownend by the bank, while the cr on the right is payed!

any american car is in europe a clown mobile!

>>513561958
>clearly used as someone's commuting vehicle
that's me. I used to be an EMT and I demand a thick-steel shell, a body-on-frame and superior mass whehver I hit the road. .

>>513556311
European salaries are post-taxes, USA ones pre-taxes.

>>513563396
idk both my brother and my dad had 3.5 eco motors and they ate multiple turbos
imho they are a 150k-200k engine that don't hold up to towing or general truck use, but otherwise yeah they make aluminum body 1/2 tons get similar mileage to cars and are probably a decent option for 90% of 1/2 ton truck owners
I tow stuff so it's diesel or big block gas engines for me.

>>513563413
>most reliable, and simplest motor ever produced.
That's not the I6
Boxer motors are decent where space is constrained. But I6 engines will easily outlast them. Also an I6 is easier to rebuild in frame than a boxer motor which typically needs to be pulled in order to do anything to them, and if you pull an engine, ANY engine is easy to rebuild when it's on a stand.

>>513554417
Americans turned their car culture into an arms race where you are forced to ride on tanks because everyone else is also riding a tank.

>>513562102
Too stupid to live, good ending.

>>513552745 (OP)
where is the american "car"?

>>513564009
Yes. (and that's a GOOD thing!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3472Q6kvg0

>>513564033
any dead gook is a net + for the world

>>513552820
>it’s my choice
>I can drive whatever I want
>no one can tell me what to do
It doesn’t make you any less retarded though. You’re allowed to make decisions, but that doesn’t mean you made the right one simply by the virtue of having a choice. You were given enough rope to hang yourself, and you fucking did it.

Sometimes there are pragmatic reasons for owning a truck, such as having to tow a heavy trailer or a legitimate work necessity. But “I just like it and wanted to have it” is the opposite of pragmatism.

>>513558320
Yes it is, thanks taternig

>>513559352
>comparing the nice parts of France to nigger parts of Alabama
You’re stacking the deck, Anon. Compare Birmingham to Paris and nice rural white parts to each other.

>>513564111
Ford pinto

>>513552745 (OP)
Psychological compensation of mutilated penis.

>>513562834
you drown before you can open the door. roll the window down and crawl out or break it if it wont go down.

>>513557860
>hillbillies are willing to take out a second mortgage to get gouged in the wallet.
Those hillbillies game the system and buy the trucks through their LLCs so they can write the depreciation off their taxes.

>>513552820
>>513554901
There’s farmer families with 16 year old grandsons that drive $100,000 trucks all over the corn belt and the south. Most of them are millionaires. Farmers typically have money.

>>513564300
>the only trucks that exist are new trucks
kek.

>>513564371
yes. but, not from farming.

>>513564371
It’s a tax write off and you need those in business. I’d rather pay more to ford to fuck what I can out of the federal gov cause ford at least gives me nice stuff

>>513563829
You just cant afford it is the reality. $9 a gallon gas and undersized road systems. You would end up in the ditch because you cant drive anything bigger than a golf kart to work

>>513563413
Thanks. I just dont know much about them. Good to know

>>513563739
LMAO do mutts actually think this?

>>513564585
Don’t listen to him I wouldn’t wish a Subaru boxer on my worst enemy.

>>513562360
i use my range to make the round-trip L.A. -> S.F. once a month, no stopping.

>>513564606
No. We know this.

>>513552745 (OP)
>Are American rednecks just richer than Europeans or what causes this?
Most Americans are as broke as fuck. They think that because they have a high GDP it makes them rich. In reality, it makes Jews rich.

>>513553375
>Mississipi has a higher GDP than the UK
Imagine have a lower per capita GDP than an african tier state.

>>513564680
Why? Whats wrong with them?

>>513552745 (OP)
i think someone already explained but long story short, we (in europe) have very old cities with roads originally designed for horses/pedestrians so car manufacturers had to adapt. + we don't have a climate as harsh than usa (hot and cold). USA starded from nothing so it's easier to eenove and adapt to such changes as big cars

>>513553442
>Small cars more regulated than big trucks
>Car companies sell small trucks as big cars
>????? (.gov retarded)
>Environmental regulations backfire

>>513553823
2.7 miles per tank?

>>513553253
They didnt tow it cause the driver came back, but they would have done it, they are prepared for big cars, SUVs, etc.

Anyways, the moment the tow-tuck arrives, you pay the fine, no matter what.

>>513564371
>Farmers typically have money.
fuck yeah, especially in Cali. agri-business is big

>>513564751
My networth is over $350k and I'm 32 years old.
Not really rich, but I'm doing fine. Likely be a millionaire in my 40s.

>>513564879
They have always had a tendency to have headgasket problems. I’ve seen them chugging before the 50k mark which is unacceptable. Subaru fans will keep on saying it’s fixed but it never is since it’s a problem that has always been around.

>>513564879
Weak attachment between the block and the head, resulting in head gasket failure.
Boxers are a space saving design, not a design that prioritizes longevity and strength.

>>513563283
I wouldn't say the "average redneck" but there is a lot more well off rural folks nowadays than when I was growing up. Everyone was dirt poor and everyone is doing pretty good these days. Even the poor folks have vehicles and electricity now. I remember going to visit people and sitting in the dark.

>>513563975
While you are correct, and inline 6 may be easier to access if the car is designed around the motor, the boxer is smaller and in real world examples, the engine bay has a tone of room to get to the cylinder heads without removing the engine. In fact the whole engine is exposed so you can get to all of it. The I4 also should be the easiest to work on but good luck getting to the timing belts or anything like that since the full the whole engine bay

>>513565101
I can't get mad at them, I still have a soft spot for the 6.0 powerstroke despite it being the ej25 of the diesel world

>>513562555
>Pay off your mortgage with a 3% interest rate instead of investing in the market with 6-10% returns
You are a dummy.

>>513562102
Why didn’t he shoot the window out with his pistol?

>>513565101
>>513565130
Thanks

>>513564738
I made this for you, anon.

Do americans seriously think Europeans are feeling mogged because big car? What a ridiculous mindset.

>>513564488

...look, i would agree, but the USA is the asshole of the world, have fun with your oversized car yo drive inncity, you dont own ....this comparsion between US and europe doesnt work out out well when you focus on superficial things! ...90% of americans would choose europe, because they work two/three jobs and cant get along, not talking about healthcare and low crime and all the other shit!

oh, this is a bot thread. carry on

>>513565759
the rest of the threads are shit today

>>513565759
>1pbid
>memeflag
>jew

>>513561958
99% of the cars I see are never carrying anything. clearly used as someone's commuting vehicle. this is the funniest thing to me because it's so unnecessary compared to a reasonable motorcycle. actual soccer moms get more use out their coupes than these dorks with the sedans to their desk jobs

>>513565701
And I hope with all honest sincerity they move there, immediately.
Don't let the tail of the plane bump on the runway as you leave.

>>513565759
this thread caters to my specific favorite flavor of autism

>>513565677
It's small penis syndrome. All their size went to their fat ass bodies with no energy left to distribute to dick growth.

>>513565903
lol, motorcycles.. in 2025 after 20 MILLION browns who never drove in their life, all those brown women.
All those first time licenses tested by a "cousin" for a small fee of course.
lol, you have to be NUTS to ride in this America, it was bad when it was white women and old people not looking.
Now they see you and expect you to move anyway.

>>513565701
>90% of americans would choose europe
i would if i could in a heartbeat

>>513566113
But you can. Go there, lose your documents and sneak across any border, then claim you're an African refugee, don't let on otherwise. Bingo bango, free living too. Isn't that the DNC dream of making it? Sneaking in and living on other people's taxes?

>>513552977
No. Wrong, the box truck has a bench seat spanning the width of the cab, and can comfortably accommodate three Amerilards, or five to six beaners. That Kei truck will only fit two persons in its cab.

>>513566085
go eat some feces pajeet and sit your ass the fuck back down

>>513566085
>fat ass bodies
Thats the thing as well, this phrase is too good for them. Their fat doesnt go into the ass where it could be conditionaly attractive but everywhere where it would be unconditionaly unatractive. How do they achieve such physiques?

>>513564879
Japs cheaped out on parts and had a whole lot of problems that boomers won’t get over. Problem has been fixed for 20 years and they consistently run for 300k