Thread 513644578

So Trump’s federal government is going to crack down on issuing permits for wind and solar projects.
Why? To what end?
Do we plan to concede the renewable energy market to China?
Because Trump got mad at an offshore wind farm near his Scotland gold course?

>>513644578 (OP)
The only thing renewable about solar and wind as it stands is renewing China's coffers and making the west reliant on China for electricity.

>>513644678
Ok, why can’t the US start domestic production of solar and wind components and beat China?

Scaffolding permits?

>>513644751
Because it doesn't make economic sense. It only works with China *and* the government controlled by China subsidizing it deliberately to destroy the West. They're playing the long game.

>>513644751
Because it’s expensive as fuck and we already have the world’s best oil refining infrastructure.
People who want solar above all just want a quick buck.

>>513644578 (OP)
Because it's all subsidized and once the subsidies were shut off the prices shot up in blue states that fell for that green energy scam

>>513644578 (OP)
That guy's a pedo

>the days of stupidity are over
lol
Lmao

>>513644578 (OP)
Because he's a fucking moron.

>>513644845
Ok, why can’t the US government subsidize renewable production the way it subsidizes oil production?
>>513644964
Ok, we are stuck on dinosaur energy technology and we can’t adapt because we have too much invested in it.

It's already unironically over.

Policy takes decades to show effect, likewise it takes decades to undo bad prior policy. The US can barely string together a coherent policy (only to undo it 4 years later). China built and thought long-term for 25 years, they now have the lead in everything since energy is the very essence of civilization: with it, you can do anything. Go read some early scifi authors, they knew what was up.

It's not a matter of "renewables yes/no", it's a clear FACT that the US needs to pull everything (including the kitchen sink) out to catch up with China again. Renewables, nuclear, oil, everything. You don't beat an exponential with a linear. But they won't, because they're essentially in a soft civil war: too busy trying to gain control at home to notice they're losing control abroad.

It's truly baffling to see an Empire just shrug and give up its place, so I'm betting the US will start a war in a few years as it rapidbly becomes clear it's "now or never". Russia's doing the same thing in Ukraine btw.

>>513644578 (OP)
What he says is correct, the more renewables a grid had the more the average cost will be and the more unstable the grid will be.
There are multiple reasons as to why.
No matter what one has to directly or indirectly subsidize stable base power to stop the grid from collapsing when the weather changes, meaning additional costs that previously weren't necessary.
Battery, hydrogen or whatever else is even worse because suddenly the EROI becomes extremely low and might even be negative and it requires so much infrastructure further increasing costs.
There's a reason no one wants to build storage that's not subsidized, especially if they have to pay to connect it to the grid.

>>513645308
>dinosaur energy
Oil doesn’t come from dinosaurs, retard.

>>513645630
>America is giving up by not completely retooling their entire energy grid for solar
That’s stupid. Why reinvent the wheel when we are already set up for natural gas?

>>513645630
>The US can barely string together a coherent policy (only to undo it 4 years later). China built and thought long-term for 25 years,
The positive is that this will likely lead to the collapse of most western democracies in the end. Hopefully we won't ever try something so stupid again.

>>513644678
That doesn't make any sense. There's no reason the US can't produce it's own solar panels or wind mills.

There's also no reason why wind and solar have to be the only options. The government can afford any amount of money needed to increase nuclear capacity, increase hydroelectric, geothermal, etc.

There is no good argument at all for restricting an increase in supply of energy for the American people.

>>513645701
Dinosaur as in archaic, old, antiquated, should be extinct. Makes big loud noises and clouds of stinky smoke, yes, fun, sure.

>>513645812
Anon, please. Again:
> the US needs to pull everything (including the kitchen sink) out to catch up with China again. Renewables, nuclear, oil, everything.

So:
[x] gas
[x] solar
[x] nuclear
[x] toss old tires in the furnaces
[x] anything that generates power, put fucking orphans in tredmills if it helps

it's not an "OR", it's an "AND". Even that won't be enough. You need to increase your current rate of growth by 10 to even have a chance to *catch up* with China. They're growing, and even their rate of growth is far greater.

>>513646305
Why should it be extinct? It works fine and it’s a lot cheaper for consumers.
>>513646450
What exactly are we trying to catch up with? China needs solar because they don’t have any other means to achieve energy independence.

America already achieved energy independence by investing into O&G infrastructure. We are already ahead of China in this category.

>>513644578 (OP)
windmills dont work you fucking dummy

>>513645886
Of course America can produce its own solar panels. But America has no reason to replace our existing oil infrastructure with solar.

Solar is a good auxiliary source. It’s not a good primary source for the entire grid. Stop trying to force change.

>>513646450
Building solar doesn't increase available energy and wind, depending on where it's built, allows about a 10-20% increase of capacity of available energy.
It doesn't matter how many solar panels you built, they won't support any new factories or data centers unless you have base capacity generation for whenever the sun doesn't shine, and if you do you don't need the solar.

>>513644751
because our government would rather subsidize indian-run dying semiconductor companies (intel) than things that could actually benefit american citizens (like cheap solar panels.)

>>513644578 (OP)
Green energy was a scam concocted in the 80's during reagan's presidency and the goal was always to funnel cash into chinese pockets

China and russia fund green energy groups because it weakens the west, now thaat trump's created a new speculative bubble with AI they need more coal fired power plants

this is a sort of cinderblock to the head level process to kill green energy

>>513646727
Why should they subsidize solar panels instead of subsidizing fuel? That would be cheaper for the end consumer.

>>513644964
It's not expensive. Solar panels have gotten incredibly cheap within the last decade

>>513644578 (OP)
He needs to prioritize hiring more proxies to lie on the internet.

> Own a farm
> Would love to get paid to lease it to solar power companies
Trump is a faggot also a liar

>>513644578 (OP)
If solar and wind were actually viable and could be profitable, do you really think oil companies wouldn't be investing in it as well?

>>513646813
Solar panels are expensive. They are only “cheap” because of the massive subsidies that have been keeping the industry afloat.

Furthermore, the increase in electricity prices in every single area that’s tried to implement renewables is further evidence that solar is in fact not cheap.

>>513646805
because a solar panel lasts for 20-30 years with maybe a 20% decrease in output while a tank of fuel is consumed? are you a fucking retard?

>>513646567
>It works fine
I understand that a lot of people discount anthropogenic climate change for religious reasons, but that’s a pretty big carve-out you have to make to assert that it “works fine”

>>513644845
It's just moronic. Since we can't outcompete China on solar, we just... refuse to purchase it, even though it's cheaper and better for the environment? We start up fucking coal instead?

This is mad king shit -- the emperor has no clothes.

nuclear or nothing

>>513646957
>solar panels last for 30 years
Let’s get to the 30 year mark of this latest batch of solar panels before making such claims. It’s barely been 10.
>>513646970
>muh climate change
Notice how solar panel shills have to rely on the climate change hoax to support their arguments. They have to do this because economically, solar panels are very expensive.

>>513646884
Solar is quite cheap, but it's useless without a lot of infrastructure and base load power production which in turn makes the solar unnecessary and just another cost which increases energy prices in the end even though the actual solar power produced is very cheap whenever the suk shines.

>>513644964
How about fucking nuclear? Do you at least support nuclear? We could easily make "the best nuclear reactors in the world," if that's what it takes to stimulate your sense of self-importance. Or is this all just a fucking contrarian stance against things the left cares about? Is this even about energy?

>>513644578 (OP)
Republicans are the slaves of the oil industry.

>>513646978
>it’s cheaper
It’s not
>better for the environment
It’s not, but since when has China cared about the environment?

>>513647071
>climate change hoax
As I said, religious reasons
>solar panels are very expensive
Not anymore. They benefit from economies of scale like all semiconductors

>>513647098
>solar is cheap
>except it’s expensive when you actually want to use it the way solar enthusiasts want to use it
That means solar is expensive, anon.

>>513647101
Nuclear is fine, although there’s a big story behind it that makes it unlikely to be a good idea in our browning nation.

>>513647071
>Let’s get to the 30 year mark of this latest batch of solar panels before making such claims. It’s barely been 10.
they've tested them in lab environments against accelerated wear environments (more heat, more UV exposure.) what compels people like you talk out their ass, with absolutely no clue about anything?

>>513647141
>not anymore
If they aren’t expensive, why are you complaining that Trump is removing solar subsidies?

Simple answer: they are only cheap when massively subsidized.

>>513644578 (OP)
Wind has always been a scam its unsustainable even if we forget the fact it cant be used for baseline power, it literally takes more energy to produce, put up and dismantle the windmill than it produces in its lifetime, its net negative retardation.
Plus the windmill blades are unrecyclable they just get put into massive landfills, pic rel.
Completely not green retardation similarly how Germany's Greens are against nuclear which caused them to fire up coal plants which poison the air and be dependent on Russian energy.
Meanwhile neighbouring France is almost energy independent when it comes to electricity when 80% of their production is nuclear.

Solar is better but for large scale energy its still a meme and while it has gotten quite good there are no leaps on the horizon right now. Its still better as just paving building roofs and maybe make shades in parking lots for cars to go under, such unused space it can be useful but making some solar farms that runs profitable only because it gets state subsidies - retardation.

USA has plenty of natural gas which is very clean so doing wind and solar with massive govt subsidies to make otherwise unprofitable business profitable with tax money - retarded.
If you have to use tax money for something and I dont say you even have to - you should be investing it into more nuclear research because that is where the future is at.

>>513646450
China peaked.
The real estate market collapsed. No matter what they try, Chinese domestic consumption rate/percent of GDP is lowest of any 'developed' economy and not rising. The only thing left are exports which everyone everywhere is tired of Chinese dumping and are enacting trade barriers.
When a marathon leader just stops running, those behind just need to keep pace for a time to pass them.
What's happening smells a lot like Japan's lost decades. But what do I know? I am just a spastic anon.

>>513647212
>they’ve tested them in perfect conditions to produce their sales pitch
You’ve just fallen for the classic merchant narrative. Why the fuck would solar salesmen say anything other than they’re proven to last forever?

I want real evidence. Not lab created tests conducted by the people getting rich off of solar.

>>513646813
/pol/ always has a knee-jerk reaction to anything considered even remotely "green"
Over here private individuals and businesses install solar even without any subsidies because it makes financial sense for certain applications i.e. factories that work during the day, warehouses, off grid villas etc.
Obviously you can't power an entire country off of solar, and nuclear is still the best option, but on the scale of a single building solar is great.
Imagine hating on a technology that makes it easier to live off the grid and be more independent because the people you hate like it.

>>513647188
I know it means it's expensive, I explained how something which should be cheap can actually be expensive.
It's quite a difficult concept to understand for most people and it's ruining a lot of power grids.

>>513644578 (OP)
wake up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FYtNQ8izM0
slit throats

>>513647237
Not just subsidies, Trump says the government won’t issue permits for new renewable energy projects. It’s protectionism for the fossil fuel industry.

>>513644578 (OP)
There are giant firms whose sole purpose is to cold calm ransoms numbers to shill solar. If that isn't a sign that the entire industry is just a giant get rich quick scheme then you're lost.

>>513647188
How is it just "fine"? It's clean and abundant. We can use its byproducts to create munitions which have unique advantages over other metals. It's not just fucking "fine." You milquetoast fucking flat-affect drones care about nothing. Nuclear energy, for infrastructural applications, is not just "fine" but fucking optimal.
>muh brownssssss
Maybe you should be more worried about providing education than blaming your problems on race or immigration. Our scores are slipping, too. The average American now reads at an eighth grade level. That's a systemic problem, not one downstream of demographics.

>>513647273
No anon, the US peaked and China already passed - and the US refuses to speed up to catch up again. That what >>513645630 this graph shows: one is steep, the other is flatlining. You can't produce power that isn't consumed somewhere (unless China is secretly boiling lakes I guess). A flat power generation line shows insufficient new capacity and only rising prices (directly or indirectly).

>>513647403
>get rich quick scheme
Do you want market-based solutions or not?

>>513647302
accelerated wear testing is a standard procedure in the semiconductor industry. when they publish MTBF figures in the 100s of thousands of hours do you really think they're running a test for 10 years?

>>513647348
the average /pol/nigger is crying about their electricity rates going up but refusing the possibility of offsetting the costs with solar OR charging data centers more money for their usage.

>>513645092
Subsidizing unprofitable energy forms putting boatloads of tax money to jewish investor pockets indeed is stupid as fuck.
He is not banning solar or wind production - just ending the subsidies which will show those energy forms being retarded.
I'm not saying to burn coal because that shit does poison the air - but natural gas doesn't and you have PLENTY of it.

And nuclear is the way of the future, not wind or solar. The problem with nuclear is the high upfront cost which short-term profits looking investors don't wanna touch - if we lived in national socialism this wouldn't be a problem but unfortunately we don't and as long as jews breathe air we will never get White national socialist ethnostates - unfortunately.

But what one could do is not subsidize but give a state backed loan to build nuclear maybe. It would need to be iron clad though to not be abused by pajeets and jews - because as we can see that in literally every single govt program from H1B visas to section 8 housing pajeets and jews are running scams.

>>513644578 (OP)
He's right. The only place where it's even close to economical to put in a large solar installation is in places like Arizona, and wind is just retarded unless you live on top of a mountain or something like that. People should be able to do it privately if they want to on their own property and without any government subsidization.

>>513647510
The entire industry relies on scamming people. They literally cold call old grannies and tell them how much they could save by buying a piece of shit that will break before it's paid off in savings. Nuclear was and always is the future. That's why the kikes used Hollywood propaganda to make it seems like a scary thing despite the current failsafe that make it foolproof and impossible to meltdown.

>>513647599
>He is not banning solar or wind production - just ending the subsidies which will show those energy forms being retarded.

in doing so he's contributing to the problem that plagues unguided capitalism: they will prioritize quarterly returns over long term outcomes. china's state capitalism has created an abundance of energy while the american power grid is on the edge of collapse. see this >>513645630 anon's post.

>>513645630
>It's truly baffling to see an Empire just shrug and give up its place
Well this was really inevitable ever since jews penned in the 1965 immigration act.
Do you think you could have #1 empire with Brazil's demographics? With South Africa's? With India's?

So why the fuck do you think its possible with USA's future demographics?
What created the USA empire was very lucky geology incl. good trade routes via rivers to the sea, and natural resources from energy to metals to minerals, combined with - this is the most important part of all - being a White ethnostate with the largest concentration of White people in history under one flag and country.
Jews destroyed the White-only immigration rules on purpose and after 1965 in just 60 short years the country turned from 90% White to 50% White and dropping.
It's simply impossible that they carry on as they used to because what the fuck makes a country if not its people

>>513647560
At this point it's like purposefully buying a car that uses more fuel just to spite those hippie leftist faggots.
Also don't worry, it's going to be the big corporations that build new nuclear power plants to power their AI slop generation and surveillance/data mining.

>>513647731
usa is failing at nuclear as well because the decision is outsourced >>513647805 to the private markets which would rather build niggerlicious natural gas or coal plants for quick returns than invest in long-term solutions like nuclear. also we're facing a competency crisis where things are outsourced to subcontracted subcontractors so nuclear may very well end in failure e.g., nukegate.

>>513647978
That's what happens when you stop the white people from maintaining the civilization they built to prop up niggers. I don't feel bad in the slightest. I hope it all fucking burns down to the ground.

>>513646884
>subsidies
you dumb nigger. you think the USA isn't giving massive subsides to all our industries?
Not even Tesla is profitable without government cash. Choke on that faggot.
China will crush the USA with their two inch dicks because Republicans are psychotic low IQ assholes with a Bible for a brain. And when it really starts happening, every white dude who stood around doing nothing is getting brutally murdered. Daughters and wives gleefully raped because that's what you supported. Oh it will be glorious. Fuck you.

>>513648070
you're blaming niggers for what is the natural conclusion of unguided capitalism. the chinese aren't communist. they understand how to guide capitalism against its mentally retarded impulses (short term profits) and punish bad actors (fraudsters, scammers, the incompetent/negligent, etc.)

>>513647805
This is true, state capitalism is pretty much what national socialism is about - and China is doing great in many fields exactly because of that.
Ever since Mao died and his inner circle jews were retired, the chinks never let jews anywhere near power again as they realized that things that jews suggest like purging millions of their smartest people as stupid people are less likely to successfully revolt or tearing down tens of thousands of their temples in the cultural revolution to erase Chinese cultural heritage because it wasn't in line with jewish communist ideals - well lets say after Mao they realized what the jews were trying to do play power to themselves and erase what it is to be Chinese. And Chinks have never let jews near power again and they've moved away from communism to great success.

The thing is that when countries which are in USA sphere of control like Japan get a little bit of too good trade surplus by keeping their economy closed and dont allow foreign investors to their markets - well the jews can just use USA to force plaza accords down their throats and then manufacture a housing bubble so they could swoop in with (((IMF))) and "rescue" japanese economy by buying their banks and assets for pennies on a dollar and then japan has had stagflation since because half of their country's profits are being plundered by jewish (((international investors))) overseas.

But the chinks, they have nukes and they are a superpower now, the kikes cant just boss them around and force the chinks to give their companies and lands to them.
A jew from israel can go to any White country, buy land, and rent it back to the White people, but the jew cant do that in China.
Jew cant also go buy natural resources and extract all the profits either, or own chinese companies and extract all the value of the chinese labor.

>>513648355
This is why they're rising they're doing something resembling to national socialism keeping the foreign parasites out.
Unfortunately they are still low-trust chinks with penchant for scamming similarly to pajeets and jews even though they're not quite as bad, the scamming gene still is there.
So they cant quite ever create anything that would be as functional like a White national socialist state would be, as they cant really trust their own people.
Thats where all the "tofu houses" and such stuff comes from, its not that chinks are too stupid that they cannot build properly, its just that they are scammers. Some chink building company charged for some tons of bridge concrete but uses old corn husks and garbage instead and pocket the money.
This is ultimately the cap to the Chinese growth - they cant change their DNA so the scamming inefficiency will always be there. They need to verify instead of trust which makes business less efficient.

But still, they dont have any nonwhites parasiting off their productivity - no niggers on gibs and best of all no jewish ((investors)) stealing all the profits to build a megamansion in Tel Aviv

>>513648252
We can never have White national socialist ethnostates unfortunately as long as jews are breathing. Its actually why they removed the White-only immigration laws so they could import browns that would be on their side keeping their claws firmly sunken in a White country and stop us Whites from ever taking our countries back sending them home and implementing national socialism.

It's not that jews only push multiculturalism, they DEPEND on it. They use it as a tool to bring in allies so a Nazi-Aryan policies like the 'White Australia' or 'National Origins' could never come back, and jews could forever keep their claws in White countries.

>The Census Bureau has just reported that about half of the American population will son be non-white or non-European. And they will all be American citizens. We have tipped beyond the point where a Nazi-Aryan party will be able to prevail in this Country. We [Jews] have been nourishing the American climate of opposition to bigory for about a half a century. That climate has not yet been perfected, but the heterogeneous nature of our population tends to make it irreversible—and makes our constitutional constraints against bigotry more practical than ever."
- Earl Raab, The Jewish Bulletin, 9th Feb 1993, p. 23

>>513648735
And of course China is still far away from prosperity of West but the important part is that they are going up - even though their demographic peak is at hand right now so its soon behind them - they have created so much automation in their factories i dont think its going to be a major problem at least not anymore than it is to everyone else - plus they could always dip into rest of asia for foreign labor if they really need to.
And again because we're not talking about White countries here that have been infested by jewish cancer - its guaranteed that Chinks wont be allowing it to be some free for all for immigration scams where pajeets scam themselves into managerial positions instead of being the labor - or where MENA comes claiming asylum and then living on gibs while dealing drugs or working under the table and dodging all the taxes. Yeah I'm confident that china isn't going to let foreigners just come loot everything like what is happening in White countries - again because they are not sick with jewish cancer like we are.

>>513647106
>Republicans carry water for the international oil trade
You don't say.

Climate cultists should get fucked. It's actually completely unbecoming of a socalled first world country to need to send out emails to tell people to restrict power usage. We should have a massive energy surplus. And we should have redundancy. We have plenty of space and could have various nuclear facilitis

>>513647273
Japan's lost decades were simply stolen from them by jews it really is simple as that, their assets bought for pennies on dollar after jews manufactured the crash and ever since their profits have been plundered overseas, out of the japanese economy which has a compounding effect of lessening local demand for products and services which increases the stagnation even more - plundering profits from an economy is the worst thing you can do to it thats why international capitalism is so fucking retarded to everyone except the international jew profiting from it.

The real estate market did collapse because they were running absolutely buck wild with it to a ridiculous degree building many times more apartments than there ever are people which was obviously unsustainable.
Yeah it was built mostly on loans which then required more loans to cover the previous ones they were leveraged to the hilt it was always going to crash - but the other side why it happened is something to do with Chinese mentality.
I'm White of course so I can't actually get in their heads - but I can observe.

>>513647374
Good. It’s essentially price gouging when energy companies commit to these expensive alternatives and then pass the costs down to the consumer.

>>513649804
if climate change isnt real then why nuclear? why not build 10 coal power plants in every town and city?

>>513647471
>it’s clean and abundant
So is natural gas, and it’s cheaper to boot. AND we already have the infrastructure for it, unlike solar.

>>513647531
It’s also easily gamed.

>>513648129
Why should they subsidize solar when we already subsidized infrastructure for gas?
I’m not interested in hand outs to solar salesmen when it doesn’t lead to cheaper consumer prices.

>>513644578 (OP)
A.I. is causing the increase

>>513650002
Because nuclear is a lot more cost effective at that scale. Should be anyway.

>>513649850
First to understand is that they're really only very recently wealthy just 40 years ago most of them were living in abject poverty and I dont mean what american nigger thinks is poverty where Whites house clothe and feed him give him money for a car and even cigarettes and 40s on his EBT card.
No, the type of poverty where millions of them still died of starvation and lived in conditions which make a brazilian favela look like a five star resort.
So now that they're suddenly in glitzy cities with global middle class incomes with all modern amenities and starvation is just a bad memory - being so poor is still so fresh to them that my kitchen psychologist assessment is they're afraid of losing it - of going back to poverty.

So they are afraid to spend and this is creating a problem for the local spending - they are stingy and want to save fearing that they'll be soon starving in a tin shack again.
And since they have money saved up well everyone knows inflation is a thing and cash loses value so where do they invest - well real estate is something concrete isn't it.
We have to also remember that chinks are still notorious scammers and chinks have hard time of trusting their countrymen - so buying up stocks in a company might feel like it could just *poof* disappear at any moment with your life investments.
So they think that if they buy real estate - at least it does exist and can be sold - a good place to park money right.
Plus there are currency controls in China - they dont want the money to be going out of the country to be potentially sucked up by other countries.
So now there is a billion Chinese that want to invest but cant do it overseas and dont trust Chinese stocks - so real estate it is.

And this is how the bubble happened, the construction companies answered to huge demand for investment real estate - it was not residential anymore since most of the chinks that moved from rural areas to cities had already moved.

>>513645630
it's hilarious when Eurotrash seething about American superiority larp as wumaos

>>513644678
Solar is viable in certain parts of the country, wind energy is mostly feel good bullshit, Don Quixote was right.

>>513644578 (OP)
Wind turbines are an actual meme that make the grid less stable and never recoup the energy needed to make them.

Solar is ok but needs more adoption. We also need grid scale batteries which don't exist yet.

>>513644751
Jews.

>>513650285
Why do we need expensive grid scale batteries just to force solar as our primary? Let the solar infra grow naturally and stop trying to force it.

>>513650340
Only because the cost of solar has become competitive with grid energy prices. If they lose 20% their capacity in 30 years, it's free electricity after that.

Also nuclear > all.

>>513644751
Because you cant meter the sun.

>>513650455
You should be ashamed for linking metrics and not bothering to explain your point. “Should be anyway” is in reference to regulatory costs and acquisition costs being kind of fucked for nuclear. I’m not sure if it’s fucked outside of the extreme regulatory environment and the sourcing issue.

If I’m wrong on this it’s just another reason why natural gas is GOATed.

>>513650491
How can solar be competitive while also receiving fairly large subsidies? That implies it’s only competitive with subsidies.

>>513650209
This. Only natural gas and oil are cheaper in the long run than nuclear, because they are so easy to access you basically drill a hole and energy comes out free.
Although oil the way it has to be done today in America as shale oil fracking it might not be as economical anymore as its more complicated now to get it out.

Coal on the other hand is nearly not as energy dense as oil or gas and its extremely labor intensive compared to those.

The only problem with nuclear is indeed the massive upfront cost which pretty much needs some sort of state intervention because nobody wants to put up billions upfront.
You have to realize is that what some jewish investor thinks about is to get his private island as quickly as possible that he can diddle kids there, like tomorrow.
The kike doesnt want to put up billions to a nuclear power plant that takes 30 years to pay itself back and only the next 50 after that is profit. Not to mention that the first decade is just building without any money coming in at all, only costs.
Kike rather buy up bunch of single family housing and house section 8 niggers or put a 20 pajeet dormitory in there and start getting rent checks in hand right now

It is a problem of capitalism that really all the decision power goes to filthy jews that do not have anyone elses interests in mind except theirs, especially when they're extracting profits from White countries, they might be more charitable when they do decisions in israel.

This is why national socialism is a good combination of private and public where all sorts of products and services to people are produced privately but big projects like energy and roads are handled by state

Solar and smaller windmills are great for remote or off the grid living and that's about it. Nuclear or get the coils up and running is a best bet for energy.

>>513650688
>just pretend a necessary cost that allows for safe and reliable operation doesn't exist
fuck off

>>513650878
There’s also the unspoken issue surrounding nuclear that the Soviet Union monopolized a ton of nuclear expertise as a part of their national security strategy.

Pretty clever really. Get your proxy allies to adopt nuclear tech, making them reliant on your specialists. AND you get nuclear material for weapons out of them since they can’t clean their own reactors.

A lot of the expense surrounding nuclear can be directly traced to the influence war between the west and the Soviets when it came to energy supremacy. Lots of policy decisions influenced purely by this conflict instead of basic economics and safety considerations.

>>513650688
>>513651069
also never mind that it's not just regulatory costs that drive up the overall cost of nuclear vs. coal, as nuclear reactors use much more exotic materials than coal boilers.

>>513651069
You really need to stop being lazy and explain your argument instead of linking a table of metrics from Wikipedia.

>>513650238
It's incredibly how defensive you always get when criticized, its like you've become spiritual pajeets or then its real that from USA posters only 50% are actually White and rest of you are just some brown trash.
The thing is why alarm bells are being sound is because you used to be the leader of the White world for better or for worse (and in case of the massive miscalculation of WWII, definitely for worse), and its not a good thing that the White world is falling we dont want a fucking jew-pajeet-negro state with tons of nukes on the other side of ocean.

Like you're probably actually brown to be so retarded that you answer with putting your head in sand and start crying - because a White answer to "this and that is fucked up" is 'oh shit you're right what the fuck can we do to fix it'

>>513651128
see
>>513651102

A lot of the discussion regarding nuclear is muddied by the recent history regarding the battle for energy supremacy.

>>513644751
Competency crisis plus nobody wants to work anymore plus America is broke and the economy is completely based on scams.

>>513651247
Solar is one of those scams, though. America really should be focused on fixing our food sourcing issue. Conglomerates really shouldn’t have complete control over our food stuffs.

Fuck wind and solar. They are unstable energy sources and produce more toxic waste. Instead go nuclear. Build SMRs.

>>513644578 (OP)
Trump's DoE pushed for nuclear power on his last term, I am sure they will do it again.
Nuclear energy is the actual future OP, wind and solar are supplemental power in remote regions at best. They will never ever displace coal or natural gas.

>>513651135
nuclear isn't as cost effective as coal. it's a much more complex engineering problem than coal. regulations are only part of the reason why it's more expensive than coal.
>>513651372
bigger entities are more efficient. capitalism seeks out efficiency. big corporate farms are the natural conclusion of capitalism.

>>513651102
I'm not sure what you mean how you can even 'monopolize expertise' but indeed USA lost lot of its expertise simply due to attrition, decades of underinvestment to nuclear caused simply experts to die without expertise being passed on - nobody wanting to take nuclear engineering in university due to lack of prospects and any interesting developments.
While at the same time Soviets kept training nuclear scientists and never stopped and they used nuclear to lot of other things than just power plants and weapons, of course submarines like USA but also things like nuclear icebreakers and lighthouses and as power sources in unmanned research and spy posts and such, they did take the 'atomic age' seriously. (Of course after USSR fell and the age of kleptocracy began nobody kept any checks on all these nuclear material and now there is ton of it missing and rotting away in random places that arent accounted for etc - not good)

And while in USA the stagnation was due to lack of investment because other cheap energy especially natural gas was so abundant - in Europe it was mostly due to green retardation due to Germany led green movements against nuclear and especially the chernobyl accident spooking out people away from nuclear - it doesnt help to explain that the soviet design sucked and even with the bad design it wouldnt have happened if they didnt also do 20 other things wrong which by the operation manual should have never been done.
That you can design the reactor in passively safe way that you cant fuck it up even if you tried. But people are simple, and radiation is scary, so nuclear stagnated.

That being said, luckily at least France still kept their expertise all this time and this is how they were able to keep building nuclear and also help Chinese build their reactors and help us too.

So I dont really know what you mean about "soviets monopolizing the knowledge" as its not the russians who have best nuke tech today its the French.

>>513651648
nuclear is very cost effective.... after 30 years of operation
very high upfront cost that takes literal decades to balance out

>>513651648
> regulations are only part of the reason why it's more expensive than coal.
I have yet to see any extensive study that confirms this, mainly because we haven’t had the conversation of what actual regulatory systems are required to assure proper nuclear safety.
> big corporate farms are the natural conclusion of capitalism.
You can’t call it market driven when subsidies are the only reason solar is an option.

>>513651838
the cost table i linked to >>513650455 amortizes the costs over a nuclear plant's operational history.

>>513651924
U.S. costs are simply not a good enough metric to prove your point, considering our political position in the energy supremacy conflict we had with the Soviet Union.

>>513651772
> monopolize expertise'
Fairly easily. For example, if a corp in Finland wants to implement AI tooling who exactly are they going to call?

>>513651924
Did you not read the earlier posts? This was already addressed that the problem is the very long return of investment, and the kike investor wants it island to diddle kids in next year and not in 50 years
Hence ultra-long-term projects like these need state investment and is a prime example why national socialism would work better

>>513651908
>I have yet to see any extensive study that confirms this,
??? were you raised by a single mother? can you really not reason conceptually about this using what little you do know about nuclear reactor construction? as an example, think about the costs of a reactor containment structure (which must withstand the impact of a 747, pic related) vs. the containment structure around a coal plant (basically non-existent.)

now extend these costs using what little you know about metal alloys and the types of alloys used in nuclear reactors vs. coal fired boiler.

We have a lot of desert area in the county. Why not put up some solar panels?

>>513652106
no one is reading your posts because they radiate mental illness.
>>513652032
this was almost as much schizo word salad as >>513652106 this guy's posts.

>>513650878
Why couldn't you crowdfund nuclear plants? Would be a ridiculously safe investment.

>>513652189
Nigger stop being stupid for once in your life. Geopolitical reality makes US statistics for the costs of nuclear unrealistic because of the position we took to counter Soviet interests in this field.
Stupid nigger.

>>513652189
>>513651908
another example, nuclear reactors are forged from a SINGLE PIECE of an exotic metal alloy that can withstand constant neutron bombardment without being embrittled. can you not reason out how this would be much, much expensive than a coal boiler?

>>513652234
So you deny the geopolitical reality that the code war had on nuclear energy development in the United States.

Thanks for confirming that you’re actually a nigger.

>>513652092
>AI tooling who exactly are they going to call?
Well pretty much anyone in the world right now?
Do you have better example?

Or if by monopolizing you simply meant that in nuclear case Soviets 'monopolized' it by simply keeping going when everyone else wound down their nuclear scientist and research output yeah that is what happened, somewhat, France never stopped though, and like said after USSR went yeah the klepto-kike russia can barely upkeep what they already have their expertise is pretty much fucked now too, or at least stagnant and not improving.

Absolutely the fact is so though that we are like half a decade behind what we could be, if everyone just kept investing in nuclear and researching more possibly in some massive joint effort we could be so much further now.
Even in its current form nuclear is an exceptionally good form of energy, but it could be so much better
I dont know if fusion is ever going to be a thing in any medium term timeframe but I mean fission could be more efficient with cheaper economies of scale to the construction and so on.
Fusion that solves the energy problems will be a thing at *some point* but its one of those "always 30 years away" things and I dont think we'll be alive to see it. Would be nice to be proved wrong but I dont think so

>>513644678
Nuclear power is much better, fusion reactors will be a reality by the 2050's

>>513652376
>because of the position we took to counter Soviet interests in this field.
jibberish with no basis in fact.

>>513651924
I am guessing that chart is showing the cost of older conventional light water reactor designs and not more modern SMRs. Also as far as environmentalism is concerned coal plants with carbon capture cost almost as much as nuclear power.
Trump's DoE is pushing for more advanced designs and trying to kickstart the next generation of nuclear power
https://www.energy.gov/articles/department-energy-announces-initial-selections-new-reactor-pilot-program

Hopefully we will see cost decrease over time as we start to invest in these newer designs. It's still very early in the process though, right now we can only speculate.
But yes, you are correct, coal is much simpler, quicker and easier to get going than most other options which is why we still heavily depend on it.

>>513652436
>anyone in the world
It’s America and China. Perhaps not for long, but this status quo still holds.

Nothing says expertise monopolies last forever. Quite the opposite actually, but they still exist. Oil and gas extraction is another example that only the Americans and the Russians have expertise in. Norway and Denmark are catching up but that’s due to direct partnership with America.

>>513652454
This is like saying OPEC had no influence on shale extraction. Pure retardation.

>>513652418
Yeah it seems he cannot even read posts and then he makes retarded arguments that are already addressed - reminds me a lot of jews that rattle on with their nonsense they dont read they just post and talk shit. Better to ignore, they dont actually read your arguments and they never argue in good faith

You guys lap up every conspiracy like retards but can't fathom that the energy Jews may be spreading disinformation about renewable energy because they are afraid of losing profit

>>513652544
>Oil and gas extraction is another example that only the Americans and the Russians have expertise in
Hmm now I'm starting to think that you just talk for the fun of it that you haven't actually researched any of the topics you talk about.
As this is so wrong and retarded I dont even know where to start.
Maybe look up some history of oil extraction on the planet before you talk about things you clearly dont know anything about.

>>513652665
even a handful of shitty solar panels with a grid tie inverter allows you sell electricity back to the grid indefinitely (except for maybe 20% efficiency loss over 30 years) and offset your monthly electricity bill (without any batteries involved) and retards rage against it.

nigger cattle begging for their own enslavement, it seems.

>>513652544
I mean what is BP or royal shell. Come on. Lol. Lmao even.

>>513652484
im with you, i hope SMRs prove to be more cost effective -- but real world results remain to be seen.

also interesting to think how they would be regulated. i've worked in a factory before, owned by an international parent company. frightening to think of those retards managing a nuclear reactor themselves.

>>513652777
Anon we are quite literally at war with Russia in Ukraine because we want to be the dominant force in O&G extraction. It’s always been the Anglos and the Russians who control this field.

Notice how you don’t offer any rebuttal besides blanket denial.

But tell me about Fink Don
>fell for it again

>>513644578 (OP)
they are a net negative thats why. studies are out that you put a solar farm somewhere you cannot ever grow food there. the wind turbines are made of fiberglass and they are buried. i can go on and on. Lee Zeldin must have breifed Trump on some of the issues

>>513652820
The only way the purchase of those roof top solar panels economically makes sense is due to government sponsored subsides you fucking retard. Otherwise the huge lump sum to purchase them up front would make them take literal decades to actually make "profit"

>>513644578 (OP)
no solar and wind are literally the worst form of energy you can have. im not kidding when i say that fossil fuels are better than solar and wind on both practical and environmental level honestly we should build more nucular power plants in this country

>>513652844
British/anglo. You serious?

They are all Anglo aligned or Russian aligned. Every single one.

>>513652844
Its so tiresome being in /pol/ these days it seems its always either disingenously arguing kikes, retarded browns, or some MAGAtards that came in 2015 from reddit and never left.
/pol/ used to be the board people knew what they're talking about. Nowadays it seems people just talk without first having researched the subject at all. I dont know if its a zoomer thing or a brown thing or what the fuck, buts its extremely tiresome.
LIke /pol/ used to be the board for geopolitics autists who actually know what they are talking about, kinda like /his/ autists know about history and so on.
But today people just make shit up here and tell their head canon as truth. What the fuck. Is everyone brown?!

>>513644578 (OP)
Energy prices are going up across the board and energy companies have a motive to increase prices with the less customers they have. It needs to be explained why costs are going up, how having solar panels reducing your reliance on energy companies, reduced stress on the power grid, makes things more expensive

>>513653109
Do you know what the B in BP stands for?

>>513644751
America doesnt make things anymore.

>>513644578 (OP)
It’s not helpful for their AI data centers. They’re bringing back coal plants

>>513646957
companies are starting to do 5-7 year warranties now instead of 10

>>513646957
>>513653263
and that's assuming the company you bought the equipment from is still in business (hint: they won't be)

>>513644578 (OP)
We discovered the secret to electricity decades ago before jewish communists activated the (((Chernobyl disaster)))

>>513644578 (OP)
That's right Goy, stay on the big grid so we can shut you down when you zog points get to low

>>513646567
He's saying AI data centers and bitcoin mining are going to put more strain on the power grid. Texas had catastrophic blackouts before more data centers moved in. Being able to generate power through every means needs to be put in place now, we need to work to get better output and a grid to handle it before we go further with data centers and usage.

The current system is making power more scarce thus more expensive... but it could also be that less money owed and paid to electricity companies means they need to increase the price to remain profitable. And they're top big to fail.

>>513653038
i pay $0.20 per kwh. a made-in-muttistan setup with a single 400w panel and a grid tie microinverter would cost me like $500 and generate ~2 kwh per day for my zipcode (northeastern US.) my breakeven point would be about 4 years.

>>513650285
>that make the grid less stable and never recoup the energy needed to make them
Source?

yes daddy i will stay on the grid so i can help pay for ai bullshit

>>513653495
> Texas had catastrophic blackouts
Due to windmills not being resilient in a winter storm. Dropping 40% of their generation within an hour killed their grid.

Nothing else you commented on is relevant to the comment you’re responding to. Natural gas is perfectly adequate to meet the huge power demands of AI.

>>513653500
What part of subsidized do you not understand?

>>513653026
> studies are out that you put a solar farm somewhere you cannot ever grow food there
nigga really never heard of agrovoltaics

>>513653263
>>513653310
>25-year product warranty and 30-year power output warranty
https://sunwatts.com/425-jinko-mono-all-black-solar-panel/
>i-it's subsidized!!!!
individuals get subsidies on their tax returns. the subsidy isn't up-front on the purchase cost.

>>513653730
Companies also get subsidies to help offset costs. There are several subsidies required to make solar competitive, which proves it’s not competitive.

>>513644578 (OP)
>the renewable energy market
what fucking market, you retard? It's entirely faked and built on government spending.
Just go fucking nuclear

>>513644578 (OP)
>Retard will do this but won't encourage nuclear energy

>>513653791
you're talking about the trump removal of subsidies which apply to commercial solar farm construction projects. and again, it's a tax credit they would claim on the entity tax return.

>>513645630
>It's truly baffling to see an Empire just shrug and give up its place
People like to claim America is the modern Roman Empire, but in reality, it's more like the Spanish Empire.

>>513653819
https://www.energy.gov/articles/department-energy-announces-initial-selections-new-reactor-pilot-program

>>513653730
remember: with solar, (you) are the bagholder

>>513653918
It’s one of several subsidies that were required to make solar competitive.
This proves that solar is not competitive, since it required these subsidies.

Stop being a retarded fanboy and accept reality.

>>513644578 (OP)
america plans on doubling its energy production to compete with china. that means clean coal, fossil fuels, and nuclear. not anemic, ineffectual, and expensive wind and solar

>>513654102
they have a factory in the US.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q620630JCLQ

>>513644751
cause its easier to let china handle the toxic manufacturing than america

>>513654140
okay, i was a bit wrong. there are subsidies for manufacturers (and not just pv generation projects) but it seems minuscule.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/solar/federal-tax-credits-solar-manufacturers

>>513646450
why spend resources on solar that could instead be put towards clean coal or nuclear? you need bang for the buck

>>513645630
Americans are absolutely too full of pride to ever acknowledge anything positive about China, not even as a matter of risk and threat assessment. i cannot have an honest and realistic discussion about China and what its current trajectory means for us with anyone anywhere.

>>513644578 (OP)
The energy invested in manufacturing a wind turbine is not recovered in its entire operational lifetime, and they only exist because 1) government subsidies make them profitable and 2) the investor ends up owning all the surrounding land that no one else wants because the windmills despoil it.
Photovoltaic panels are heavy metal laden, an environmental nightmare to manufacture, and will soon prove a bigger nighgtmare to dispose once their operational lives run out (no, they don't last forever, either).
"Renewable" wind and solar is not sustainable.

>>513654223
not sure why that matters when they'll file chapter 7 soon enough. even normie youtube is filled with solar installers who'll tell you the same: the warranty doesn't matter because the company will go out of business

>>513653654
Which means having better wind and solar infrastructure would only help. You can do natural gas too.

>>513648618
>This is ultimately the cap to the Chinese growth - they cant change their DNA so the scamming inefficiency will always be there.
Maybe this is just the damage done to their ethnicity by Mao's revolution

>>513654936
Why invest in the more expensive option?

>>513654385
The entire supply chain gets subsidies. It’s a pretty big racket.

>>513645630
Not baffling at all. The US Empire is a golem of the Rothschild World Jewry Banking Cartel. They have long planned and are implementing the steady managed decline of the US.

Post-WWII they used the US Military, Intelligence Agencies, and IMF to create the unipolar world with the US Empire as the head.

Now they are moving onto the next phase of their global agenda, which is transitioning from a unipolar world into a multipolar world. Nation States effectively have become a thing of the pass with globalization. The mask was torn off for all to see with the Covid Plandemic Lockdowns.

>>513654699
So China is building absolutely insane amounts of solar and wind just to trick you amerimutts to do the same?

>>513656333

no the xi government is buying up all the excess product of all the solar and wind trash they manufactured over the years. anything to prop up their red balloon economy. like all the ghost towns, the solar fields are good for some photo-ops, not a single watt of power will ever reach a real grid.

>>513644678
Based leaf. It's nice when others can see it too. It has nothing to do with renewable energy. Other leafs are too dumb to understand.

>>513644578 (OP)
>Why? To what end?
Because the US is such a capitalist hellhole that oil companies can bribe the president to cripple competition and stifle progress.

>>513656333
No
China builds solar in deserts. We use them too far north to get decent sunlight in the winter.

>>513644578 (OP)
>solar
>cant tax the sun
>ITS BAD OKAY PAY FOR NUCLEAR LIKE A GOOD GOY
fucking horrific times