Thread 514042837

Jesus makes clear, it is not necessary to believe in him in order to go to heaven. What is required is repentance and righteousness

20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5

16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”

20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
Matthew 19

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
Luke 18

>>514042837 (OP)
Actually the Bible contradicts itself on this issue by also presenting salvation/damnation as strictly deterministic.

Ephesians 2:8-9
>For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can.

No, I disagree. However belief in him doesn't actually mean well he's the son of god no. Belief is more nuanced. Believing in his name. If you believe in the truth, that's the same thing. Anyone can believe in the truth indians Chinese.

>>514042837 (OP)
>For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Man thats a relief, see you there bro.

Praise rabbi jeshua!

>>514042837 (OP)
Which verse is it that God basically says "regardless of what you do or believe I will decide if you go to heaven or hell"?

>>514043480
Actually saint John said love is all you need to enter heaven. One of his last words he often repeated.

>>514042939

I'm strictly talking about what Jesus says. Paul never met Jesus

>>514043592
thanks but not the answer to the question

>>514042837 (OP)
So the murderer on the cross didn't go to heaven even though Jesus said he would? Why would God play such a mean joke on sinners?

>>514043683
google the early life of jesus

>>514043301

Jesus called on men to repent

17 From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”
Matthew 4

>>514044019
Repent means to change your mind, but what was Jesus wanting them to change their mind about? Maybe the Gospel and to put away the money making schemes on animal sacrifices?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRwpxQzT_78

>>514042939
Of course salvation is deterministic. It's heresy to think that it isn't. What people are confused about though is *what* determines your salvation or damnation.

God gave His Law to only one people: Israelites, the descendants of Jacob and Isaac and Abraham. He did not give His Law to any other. If one was never under the Law, one has no need of salvation, for you cannot break a Law that you were never bound by.

Christ Himself said this. "I come only for the lost sheep of (the House of) Israel". He did not die to give salvation to any other, for no other people required it. Only Israelites were under the Law, only Israelites broke it, and only Israelites needed the blood price of their sins paid by the Crucifixion.

It is only Israelites that are saved, and no other. Understanding this, it becomes very important to know WHO is an Israelite. To start, today's "jews" are not and never were Israelites; they are Edomites and Canaanites, accursed of God. They admit this themselves, many times in fact.

What determines your salvation is whether you are an Israelite. That is the only requirement. It is genetic, it is your birthright and your inheritance. A sheep is born only to other sheep - a sheep is not born of goats, nor can a goat ever become a sheep. You do not choose to be saved, you are chosen to be saved, by your parents, and their parents before them, all the way back to Seth and Adam. The biggest and most disgusting lie, followed by 99.9% of churches, is that Christianity is a universal religion. It most certainly is NOT.

It’s the fact that people get it ass backwards.
It’s the fact that they know exactly what it actually is and say the opposite.
Its the fact that hell doesn’t scare them.
Its the fact that this has always been what they’ve been doing.
There are no contradictions, it is by simple faith in the gospel. It’s not a religion, it’s condemning all religions. You don’t have to work. Salvation has nothing to do with you.

It’s when people deliberately state the opposite of what the book says in context while implying “Christ died for your sins, now please ignore this and continue trying to justify yourselves to a perfect being using your own corrupted effort.”

You people unironically think Grace enables evil simply because it’s free, and I’m flat out telling you that your sinners, God literally took it into account when he came down here KNOWING we were going to kill him anyway. Can’t keep your religious self worshipping idolatry AND serve God.

Wonderful (((christian))) thread you have here Moshe.

>>514043683

where does it say he was a murderer? I don't see it in the bible. provide a citation, if you can.

>>514044283
Most offenses fit for crucifixion were murderers, or armed robberies(violence).

>>514044384

it could have been any number of things

>>514044239
Who said anything about "we"? The bible is clear Jews/Judeans killed Christ with the help of the Romans. I was not involved neither were you.

>>514044425
https://romanempiretimes.com/crime-punishment-roman-empire-justice-inequality/

sedition, murder or armed robbery were the usual suspects. In Luke the criminals themselves claim their punishment was just:

We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve” (Luke 23:41)

So they must have been violent offenders.

>>514044384
>>514044283
>>514044425
>>514043683

to be fair to your argument, even if he was merely a robber, it's the same objection. he has broken a commandment, even if it is not as serious as murder.

otoh, who among us hasn't broken a commandment?

I suppose it comes down to repentance >>514044019 and overall righteousness, ie. what's in a man's heart. it also may have been a matter of circumstance, we can't say for sure.

30 "...I will judge each of you according to your own ways," declares the Sovereign Lord. "Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall.
31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel?
32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone," declares the Sovereign Lord. "Repent and live!"
Ezekiel 18

15... "In repentance and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength..."
18...the Lord longs to be gracious to you; therefore he will rise up to show you compassion. For the Lord is a God of justice. Blessed are all who wait for him!
Isaiah 30

I don't give a fuck how good the Samaritan is. Do I want a Samaritan subhuman railing my daughter?

I don't give a shit even if the Samaritan circumcises himself, he shouldn't be in the country because he is racially alien.

Also, I'm marrying my daughter off at 12. And if she is a whore, I'll whip her. Jesus can go fuck himself.

>>514044732
>>514044612

fair enough, I think the emphasis must be on the saving grace of repentance, then.

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Matthew 5

not mere performatory acts or false claims. the idea being if the heart is still capable of repenting (it is not merely intellectual), then that proves the man is still good (enough for heaven). this also implies some acts preclude repentance, ie. a person may be too far gone, and we certainly see that often. there are things one does not come back from

>>514044428
>gentiles under the law even without knowing it.
>he who hates his brother is a murderer.
>he who doesn’t believe is in danger of the judgement.

LeT mE sEe YoUr ReAl BaD fAiTh ArGuEmEnTs MoShE.

>>514045006
>saving grace of repentance, then
Then why didn't the other criminal go to heaven, but one did? Neither repented, they both sinned.

>>514044239
Wrong. If you are an Israelite in truth, God has written His Law on your heart and in your mind. Your faith is a gift from God - you don't do evil, because it is not in your God-given nature to do so. One who commits wickedness is, by simple observation, NOT saved nor is he going to be saved - those who are saved were chosen to be so before God ever made the world.

You don't choose to be saved, you are chosen to be saved. Nothing you do or don't do will ever change that, hence the "salvation is by faith and not of works, lest any man should boast". However, IF you are chosen, you will naturally do the works that show your faith - you could not do otherwise, it is your nature to do good works, because of your status as chosen. If you are an Israelite, you are a sheep and will do as sheep do because you were born a sheep. Goats will do as goats do because they were born as goats, they were not chosen, they were not born as Israelites.

At the End of Days, the sheep and the goats will be separated, and judged. They are judged by different standards - the sheep are judged good if they have done a single good thing to other sheep. In contrast, the goats are judged bad if they have ever failed, even once, to do a good thing to any of the sheep. Obviously, this is an impossible standard for a goat to meet: the only good goat would have killed himself before he were ever born, so as not to sully the sheep with his presence, but there it is in black and white. Meanwhile, if you're a sheep, no matter what bad you've done, if you helped even a single sheep, you're saved. Remarkably unfair, but not unjust - goats and sheep are different and the same standards can't be applied to both.

Your existence as an Israelite marks you as chosen, as a sheep. Your blood IS your faith, and your works prove it, even if they themselves do nothing for your salvation.

>>514044778
The Good Samaritan was good because he aided and cared for the travelling Israelite, and for no other reason. If he had gone to Israel to rail Israelite daughters, he would instantly have lost his status as a "good" Samaritan.

You aren't saying anything Jesus wouldn't agree with - Samaritans WERE filthy subhumans, and Canaanites were dogs and swine. They're good only insofar as they assist Israelites; everything else makes them bad.

>>514045374
>God made people he hates because lol
>it’s about genes goy
>we the ones cHoSeN
>worship your skin Goy
>jesus is a kike goy!


Laughably obvious. Now the impartial God of everything specifically only promises to save specific people.
>And when I am raised up, I Shall draw ALL OF MAN

All are being drawn, all have a choice to either believe it or reject it. The basis for judgement is whether or not you believe it, that’s it.
>BUT MUH PHARAOH
Context clown.

>>514043102
I don't think they can tho. They're such primitive apes.

>>514045229

the one indicated by his words repentance, it seems