Thread 514107639

I know this sounds gay but this actually makes a lot of sense /pol/

Holy shit Ukraine won again??

>>514107639 (OP)
It's just cope.

>>514107639 (OP)
It is both gay and makes sense. It's also a cope. The extent to which this sort of shit actually means anything is contigent on history that hasn't played out yet. If Ukraine bleeds Russia's already broken demography dry and accelerates it's decline, then it may be seen as important a few decades from now when Ukraine may, hypothetically, take back what they've lost. Or it might mean absolutely nothing at all except to throw countless men into a meatgrinder for no gain whatsoever and have the exact same final result and not lead to anything. Time will tell.

>>514107639 (OP)
That also sums up the Korean war. North Korea won by saving their regime and keeping half of the peninsula, South Korea won by pushing back the Norkos and securing US protection.

>get invaded
>stop invasion
fin.

>>514107971
How will it bleed Russia's demography if Russia lost less people than US loses yearly from gun related accidents alone

>>514107958
so true

>>514107971
at leaste they died for Zog

>>514110732
>NK won
>SK won
>war isn't over

>>514107639 (OP)
That's just a draw or a stalemate. I'd be kind of a victory if you frustrated your enemy's plans with a minuscule amount of casualties. Otherwise, nah.

>>514110846
The invasion already succeeded in achieving Dugin's concept of demographic expansionism. Wars fought to secure demographics. Russia gained more than 7 million people. It is making war pay for war in a Wallenstein kind of way.

>>514107639 (OP)
>here’s how Ukraine won by losing 50% of population and most of its resource-rich territory: the thread

>>514107639 (OP)
>forced to give up a lot of territory
>cowed into maintaining good relations for decades
>all their museums are full of how they won WWII and anything bad was done by le evul Germans
>museums can't even mention Imperial Germany by name as assisting with their independence, the catchall 'foreign forces' is used
I used to think avoiding eye contact and social akwardness was the superpower of Finns but its really Polish levels of cope

Except the USSR's goals in Finland in WW2 were smaller than they ended up taking.

>>514107639 (OP)
Given all the lies I see today regarding the Ukraine war, I firmly believe Winter war was another reddit tier bs.

>>514107639 (OP)
But Russia was trying to get buffer room around Moscow, and they got that. How exactly did they prevent them from fulfilling their objectives?
Is the idea that if you dont unconditional surrender because all your territory has been taken, then it's a victory?

Winter War lasted 3 years. SVO is about to turn 4 years. Damage that was done to Finland and Oinkraine are completely different stories, Oinkraine will never get its pre-war population and quality of life.

>>514107639 (OP)
soviets got in to get territory
soviets got more territory than they asked for*
fins had to accept peace

* and I quote the Moscow Peace Treaty article:
>Finland ceded approximately half of Finnish Karelia, exceeding the amount of territory demanded by the Soviets before the war.

"Defensive Victory" will be the cope in Ukraine when the peace treaty will be signed there

>>514111334
St Petersburg*
Excuse my retardation

>>514107639 (OP)
but russia seems to have achieved their goal.

>>514107639 (OP)
Finland lost more than the USSR was asking for though? If they had accepted the deal they'd have lost a third of the territory they did.
>just make up some wild goal for the enemy so you can claim you won when you get your ass beat

Of course the concept makes sense, it's just not what Ukraine did. The Russians in fact achieved a defensive victory from the moment Joe Biden insisted "no no we'll never send troops no no no", something I think happened the first week of open conflict.

>>514111085
Sure, but a vast majority of that 7 million people already considered themselves Russian. You can't repeat the process forever with just about anyone.

>>514110732
The only thing SK won is the #1 place on worldwide suicide charts

>>514107639 (OP)

Unfortunately we only have zealots in the media and weakling morons in charge of the governments.

>how it started
>"give us a little bit here, and we will give you a lot more there"
>how it ended
>"we will take everything here and there"
>"defensive victory"

>>514107958
Ugh THIS

>>514107958
yup.

walking out of the bar with a bloody nose, "at least i punched him too"

>>514117357
>give us some of your most productive land and defensive border fortifications and we will give you uninhabited wilderness
wow great deal

>>514117593
Yeah, the final deal was sooo much better.

>>514118146
Better than this yes

>>514118146
The final deal included the Soviet Union getting exhausted enough to give up the rest. Now repeat the thought experiment without the Mannerheim line.

>>514118482
>Russian Empire
Retard.

>>514118482
but this was never the goal, just like in ukraine. So once again - it's cope

>>514107639 (OP)
>let me tell you how we are going to save face
Nah.

>>514107639 (OP)
Some Finns are annoying

>>514107639 (OP)
Let's talk about how hitler was right

>>514118590
>Soviet Union getting exhausted
>1939-1940
Somehow "getting exhausted" didn't stop USSR to march to Berlin a few years later.

>>514107639 (OP)
Defensyv vyctoryv is when u lost 20% of tye countryv

>>514107639 (OP)
More like copevottie

>>514107639 (OP)

TORJUNTAVOITTO

>>514107639 (OP)
New cope just dropped.

>>514110846
Niggers aren't people.

>>514107639 (OP)
where is the defensive war? it was a war of choice for ukraine
or rather for the US and UK if you do a root cause analysis

russias posture while imperialist was reactive and defensive

>>514118816
the polish shot the soviets to death and it is deserved
every soviet casualty was deserved because they followed communism
i hate you fucks who think soviet russia was this miracle
it was a literal hellhole, how do people miss this?

>>514118632
Right they just wanted Finland's border fortifications for fun?

>>514117910
that says a lot right there anon.... so its strictly about clearing out the opposition for the globalists to move in millions of migrants

>>514107639 (OP)
Their tactic was to betray their allies and trusting of the good heart of your enemy while doing what he commands.

>>514118816
By that time the Allies were in Europe as well, so the Soviet Union no longer had free reign to divide Europe between them and Hitler like they did before 1941.

>>514119151
Take your meds.

>>514118611
Yeah just a coincidence that Stalin claiming and invading former Imperial lands.

>>514107639 (OP)
so I guess that applies to the Soviet defense of Leningrad from the Finns too? What's the autistic word for "lost a bunch of our country at the end of ww2"?

Finland won.

>>514107639 (OP)
>voitto
Finland lost. So will Ukraine.

>>514119297
And you gave him half Europe, plenty things that the Russian empire didn't have ever, congrats Noigel

>>514119297
>Yeah just a coincidence that Stalin claiming and invading former Imperial lands.
Facts. USSR by the time Stalin is in charge is just another form of the Russian empire. With a communist LARP twist

>>514107639 (OP)
Is this how they cope with losing the Winter War and having to cede like a quarter of their country to Russia?

>>514110840
>get invaded
>stop invasion
>import millions of invaders from different countries to replace the male population that died in a war that would have been easier to just surrender in
>own women now constantly get raped because it’s Ahmed and Tyrone
>”winning”

>>514119241
>Exhausted Read Army taken over half of Europe because Allies were in Europe as well!
>Exhausted Read Army didn't taken over Finland because Allies weren't in Europe until 1941!
Huh.

>>514119297
>former Imperial lands
There were some other lands between Germany and Russia?

>>514107639 (OP)
>attempt colour revolutions in stans, Georgia, Chechnia
>coup Russia's little brother country
>bomb Russians for eight years straight
>defensive war
Lol.

>>514107639 (OP)
Currently I am fighting the Russians in Finland in hoi3.
Its only 1942 and already its a bloody bruising war and requires a lot of attention.
You dont want to commit too many troops becasue they are desperately needed elsewhere. You can not pump in so many troops to achieve a quick decisive victory becasue the infrastructure of Finland is so bad they would run out of supplies. But at the same time you dont want to commit too few troops becasue if the Russians do break through its then very difficult to stop them, and Finland is a shit of place to try and reinforce.
And lakes. Tones of fucking lakes to maneuver around. Does my fucking head in.
Anyway I got bigger problems right now. The fucking British man. Why dont they just surrender? Cunts.

>>514119472
what a dumb comparison. A small ethnostate vs a giant empire that spans 11 time zones and includes a bunch of churkas and slants living in huts by choice. How typically German, technically and austistically correct, but totally useless and invalid.

>>514119626
I don't even know what you are trying to say but I'm sorry about your fetal alcohol syndrome.

>>514119626
Between focusing on securing more Finnish bogs and focusing on grabbing more of Germany before the Allies, the Soviet Union picked one over another. That's also a factor, all things considered.

>>514119157
you clearly don't understand how russia wages wars. It's not a matter of "lmao now we will genocide you because fuck you", war is just a continuation of diplomacy - you reject the deal so it's enforced with arms, just like with ukraine. You threaten their security - you get the shells

>>514107639 (OP)
>Finland invented a new word for "cope"

>>514119653
they woulda been much better off if they had. maybe little girls wouldnt have to wield axes to fend off illegals.

>>514119885
>war is just a continuation of diplomacy
All states work like this you retard, the only special thing about Russia is that they try to sell their ultimatums of basically capitulation as something sane and reasonable.

>>514117357
>Gives us all your defenses on the border in exchange for worthless swamps and forests and we pinky promise to never-ever ever invade you like we just invaded Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Romania.

Ah yes, the Russian Jewish Communist. The most trustworthy of all races.

>>514107639 (OP)
That's just declaring victory after losing.
If there was really an occupation plan at any point Finland was saved by the US/UK at Yalta

>>514119516
this is about ukraine

>>514119669
>muh Giant Empire
Lmao, is Canada an empire too?

>>514119532
This is an interesting theory, to say the least

>>514120109
>Stalin created a finnish fake communist puppet government for Finland just for the lulz and stalin never wanted to take all of Finland.
Being this retarded.

>>514119785
Don't project so much.

>>514119855
Finland war happened and ended before Germany even invaded, so you're talking nonsense.

>>514119532
The problem is people aren't in the mood to argue about it.

>>514120468
Wars take time to prepare. I can only assume that whatever resources Stalin prepared for 1939 weren't enough to capture all of Finland.

>>514120463
There're not any documents that show that the USSR had plans to occupy Finland which would have been possible after WWII.
As I've said if there was any real intention of occupying Finland they were saved by the US/UK at Yalta

>>514120079
>they try to sell their ultimatums of basically capitulation as something sane and reasonable
>special thing about Russia
Anon...

>>514120092
You do know that talks started like a year before? And the whole reason for those talks was because they expected Germany to invade Russian through Finland? And that finish politicians dreamed about "Greater Finland" and thought that they have it in their pocket already.

>>514117357
Baltics took your deal and you annexed them the next year.

>>514121149
I might be historically illiterate, but find me another country that repeatedly:
>Makes demands that make a target country defenseless
>When demands aren't met, goes to war with the country while claiming it's their fault
>Post-factum, claims that it never, ever had any intentions to invade and that it would've left them alone if they agreed and made themselves defenseless

>>514121478
Oh yeah, and of course:
>post-factum, claim that you only demanded that the other side dismantle all their defenses because you feared being attacked even though you started an offensive war right after the demands were not met

>>514120815
>Wars take time to prepare. I can only assume that whatever resources Stalin prepared for 1939 weren't enough to capture all of Finland.
Uh-huh, he prepared a lot in a few years during the world war with tens of millions casualties and a lot of lost land, but couldn't prepare anything before any wars even started.

>>514121478
cuban missile crisis
you are historically illiterate

>>514121478
>I might be historically illiterate
Yes.
>but find me another country
Literally any country in history that could into power projection.

>>514111574
Why didnt you help them?

>>514107958
No it's not.
When you're weaker it's obvious you're put in an disadvantage and there's a large chance of you being obliterated. You obviously won't win outright and destroy your stronger enemy completely, but by actually resisting and making enough damages you stop the enemy from taking most of your territory

>>514121809
Then name one faggot, and one specific example of a war
>>514121757
Since when is "don't have nuclear missiles" equivalent to "become defenseless"? Given how Bay of Pigs went Cuba clearly didn't need nukes to defend themselves.

>>514107958
maybe, but at least we aren't part of russia

>>514111422
This

>>514120092
Okay, I hear people constantly say Russia was going to annex Finland and that’s why they wanted the isthmus, but there’s a huge gaping flaw in this line of logic; the continuation war. Finland invaded Russia in 1941, sided with the axis, and got their shit pushed in by 1944. Russia could have easily turned them into a Soviet puppet like they did to Bulgaria, Romania, and Yugoslavia, yet they didn’t. They could have invoked revanchism and annexed the place entirely like the Baltics, but they didn’t. Finland had no friends in 1944 and the allies wouldn’t have put up much of a fuss of Russia just did them in. The Swedes probably would have bitched but no one gives a shit about Sweden. If the goal was territorial conquest the Finns basically handed their country to the Soviets on a silver platter with their asinine invasion.

No, the simple truth is Russia had no interest in Finland, incorporating them would have been far more trouble than it was worth. It would have required a large scale purge of their government and decades of reeducation to make the place functional, something no one was interested in aside from the most delusional Trotskyites.

>>514107639 (OP)
>If you kill your enemies, they win
>>514107795
Kek

>>514122307
Because >>514119855, plus annexing independent countries is worse optics when you're allied with the Allies than when you're allied with Hitler.

>>514107639 (OP)
'Victory on all levels except actual'

>>514111415
>oinkraine
You're literally killing your own, faggot. Good job, faggots.

>>514122138
Das right

>>514123111
always kill a traitor before an enemy

>>514121478
The Russian way lmao

>>514123326
>traitor
:DDDDDDD

>>514122008
>Then name one faggot
Poland.
>and one specific example of a war
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_Polish_ultimatum_to_Lithuania
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement#Poland

>>514120092
those territories were agreed upon by communist government that finland recognised in the first place

>>514121478
ah yes, the eternal
>my ne agressory
pidor mantra

>>514111774
>You can't repeat the process forever with just about anyone.
They still have more people to reclaim.

>>514123424
We did not demand Lithuania to dismantle their armed forces, did not claim we're threatened by them and don't claim today that we were in the right. Same with Czechoslovakia.

>>514123241
That meme is made by a retard. Imperial russia was very much attempting to do all those things like forcing finland into speaking russian, they rolled the fin army into the imperial russian army so conscripts were serving there, and limited any local govt to be overseen and run by the imperial govt from like the 1890s till they got independence in 1917.

>>514107639 (OP)
kek the womanization of finland is nearly complete now that they arent even claiming a victory over the nazis

>>514123753
I don't see you giving up any of regions you took then.

>>514111415
>Oinkraine
Based.

>>514122969
>annexing independent nations is worse optics

I doubt anyone would have cared if they annexed a country that sided with the axis and was part of Russia 30 years prior. Most people in government were alive when the Russian empire was still a thing and the duchy of Finland was part of the nation for two centuries prior.

>>514119855
Russia was the most militarized nation in human history by 1944, I sincerely doubt they were worried about Germany by that point, especially since Normandy had just fallen and operation market garden started the day prior.

>>514121478
thats basically every nation. I loath all of them.

>>514123844
Zaolzie is Czech and Vilnius is Lithuanian. The fuck are you smoking?

>>514107958
From what little I know, all of Finland is cope.
Whore Prime Minister (cope).
Fucking cold (cope).
Fucking dark and depressing (cope).
Fucking mongoloid mutts (cope).
Lost most wars (cope).
Reindeer more popular than the people (cope).
Reindeer outnumber the people (cope).

Honestly, it is amazing how they cope so much but rarely seethe. I guess it is just how good they are at delusional coping. Better than Poles, but not quite at Ukrainian levels.

>>514123903
>Most people in government were alive when the Russian empire was still a thing and the duchy of Finland was part of the nation for two centuries prior.
And it's America that broke them up with the self-determination principle. What makes you think they'd want to walk that back?

>>514123903
>most militarised
More like biggest gibs me dats foo free nation in human history.
Stalin said himself without the allies Russia couldn't do shit against Germany.

>>514107639 (OP)
>Nafgroids discovered century-old Fingol cope
Wait until they found out that it's entirely based on absurd propaganda, similar to those that paid shills have been pushing for the last few years

>>514107639 (OP)
I take it we're in the bargaining stage of grief then. Just depression left and finally acceptance.

>>514124130
There's plenty of land that was taken over by Poland or was presented yo them by Soviet Union.

>>514124904
What can depression even look like after so much sunk cost?

>>514124663
>sovieticus mongoloidus talking about propaganda.
You retards unironically believe you were liberators in WWII and right now you're in Ukraine because nazis because bioweapons because nato is invading, whatever the kremlin use as the current cope and you brainless hordes believe all of it.
The new soviet man perfected

>ghost of karelia sniper
>ghost of queef ace
>lose territory
>lose territory
>retarded
>retarded
I see a pattern there. Are finngols and hohols ethnically related?

>>514120347
>Lmao, is Canada an empire too?
technically yes. What makes an entity an empire isn't just size, it's ruling different ethnicities. Canada has inuit. Also Quebec has some independence and a different language / ethnicity.

>>514125580
Why would we be responsible for agreements we were not a party to?

>>514125648
>tf
>muh lebiratots
Pigger, pigger, go back to cuckhlostan

since when has fighting off an attacker not been considered a victory?

>>514125882
>i-i-it's not our fault!
>d-decommunization, but only against memorials - the land is ours!

>>514125605
Oh, it will be glorious. Possibly even Biblical.
Can't wait to see it.

>>514125651
Not as closely as you are to the portuguese

>>514126375
Give them a break. All of those post-soviet meme countries still operate thanks to the soviet infrastructure. They can't just go around replacing those sewer lids since it's too expensive.

>>514126375
Give me the example I wanted, faggot.

>>514126636
Why would I bother to recite all countries since Mesopotamia if you will sputter all kind of excuses anyway, since you already decided that you're right to begin with?

>>514127048
You gave me one dogshit casr that didn't cover even half of the hallmarks of soviet diplomacy. If literally everyone always did this shit, then why is it so hard for you to give me one good example?

>>514123424
too bad our demands didnt make lithuania or czechia defensless
in case of lithuania quite to contrary it defended them from you
and we didnt go to war with either of them over it
so you basicaly gave example that fits 0/3 of points he mentioned here >>514121478

>>514127268
There's proverb to the tune of "one fool can ask more questions in a minute than dozens of wise men can answer in an hour."

>>514127541
You're the one claiming everyone always did diplomacy like Soviet Russia did, faggot. Now give me my one single example.

>>514107639 (OP)
Literal cope

>>514127303
>too bad our demands didnt make lithuania or czechia defensless
Sure didn't.
>in case of lithuania quite to contrary it defended them from you
Kek. "We annexed them to protect them form the future annexation!"
>and we didnt go to war with either of them over it
Sure you didn't, after taking over.

>>514107795
They always did

>>514127886
nazis did it with czechia and tried with poland

>>514127886
Take any history book and read it, drooling retard.

>>514128357
>history is russian propaganda
That's what they actually believe.

>>514128357
Lithuania Poland and other baltics are friends
Russia and other eastern Slavs are not.
Simple as, you just can't admit to you and your country being degenerates who turn everything they touch to shit

>>514128357
Give me my example faggot, this is your chance to BTFO me
>>514128354
Okay I'll give you this one, literal Nazis were as bad as the Soviets.

>>514126260
When you keep dying during the fight.

Remember Patton: "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

Russia has more dumb bastards than Ukraine and Ukraine is losing more dumb bastards than Russia, despite Ukrainian propaganda to the contrary.

>>514128240
>Kek. "We annexed them to protect them form the future annexation!"
yes we took only small corridor separating them from you and it wasnt even the ultimatum you gave as example as ultimatum was about renewing diplomatic relations
>Sure you didn't, after taking over.
the ultimatum was about renewing diplomatic relations retard
the territorial changes were result of us defending baltics during polish soviet war 20 years earlier
>Poland started an offensive against the Soviets in March 1919. They pushed east and north, entering the Vilnius Region, the territory claimed by Lithuanians. Between April 19 and 21, Poles captured Vilnius during the Vilna offensive, and by May, secured their positions.[58] The Polish army forced the Soviets to withdraw their left wing from the territories south of the Neris River. This Polish advance significantly shortened the Lithuanian–Soviet front line and allowed Lithuania to concentrate its forces for operations in northeastern Lithuania.[59]

>On 14 July 1920, the Soviets occupied Vilnius but did not transfer the city to the Lithuanian administration as agreed in the peace treaty. Instead, the Soviets planned a coup to overthrow the Lithuanian government and establish a Soviet republic.[92] However, the Soviets lost the Battle of Warsaw and were pushed back by the Poles. Some historians credit this victory for saving Lithuania's independence from the Soviet coup.[80][93]

>>514110846
So if we assume there are about 45k firearm related deaths in the US and about 30k of those are anheros we are looking at about 15k.

So just to get a better picture there are probably 15k-20k anheros in Russia each year if the numbers are to be trusted. It's pretty safe to assume most of these would have occured with whatever was available to use in either place. Likewise if we say there are 7-10k homicides in Russia any given year it's safe to assume whatever readily available weapon would have been used etc.

Truth is- when you are dealing with populations of these sizes none of these numbers are that blush-worthy. It should also be noted all the numbers and stats are basically impossible to trust either way.

>>514125648
>liberators in WWII
my great-grandpa's tangential joke about russian 'liberation'
>winter of 1945
>harsh post-war poverty
>man comes home carrying a bucket of stolen coal
>calls to his wife:
>honey, come see what I liberated today

>>514128577
both red schild movements
of red schild socialism
both destroying old european order in cooperation

>>514128561
>Lithuania Poland and other baltics are friends
They were at each other throats all their history when they weren't part of some other country/union.

>>514128577
If your IQ is lower than room temperature to read a book, then watch youtube, tictoc or whatever, you literal drooling retard.

>>514129156
You're the one claiming everyone did diplomacy like the Soviets did, I'm claiming to the contrary that they were uniquely hypocritical. Now back up your claim faggot.

>>514128973
>yes we took only small corridor separating them from you
How cute. I'm sure both Czechoslovakians and Lithuanians were trilled to be protected by mighty Poland. Daily reminded that nobody bothered to defend "greedy hyena of Europe" from Germany also because of this.

>>514129156
only polish lithuanian war happened during polish soviet war over contested territories and fact they didnt want to rebuild PLC
the other conflicts were lithuanian civili wars where we were helping one of the factions and one weird war in late XIV century which result was partitions of ruthenia between lithuania and poland and pretty much early steps in creation of PLC

>>514129750
czechs literally gave us small area with big polish diaspora so germans wouldnt have it
it was agreement by both factions
you have nothing to compare to your barbarism you mongol monkey

>>514129955
>that man literally gave me his money after I asked him along with my pals just so he wouldn't be robbed later
Excuses upon excuses.

>soviets took muh territories
Next time don't collaborate with their mortal enemy.

>>514130194
that man literally gave me what he took from me during my war with soviets 20 years earlier so germans who invaded his house wouldnt take it you mindless monkey
and as result poles and czechs cooperated against germans during the war

>>514130857
>I was justified to steal his money!
Right.

>>514131070
learn to read retard

>>514123241
fennoswedes pushing finnish national romanticsm to weaponize finns against russia is the funniest kike microcosm on earth.

>>514121951
>by actually resisting and making enough damages you stop the enemy from taking most of your territory
ziggers think ukraine should want to join their gulag state. they can't comprehend why a country might not want to be part of russia.

>my occupation and exploitation
Democratic, free, respects human rights.
>your occupation and exploitation
Communist, oppressive, genocidal.

Slavs are subhuman

>>514131881
No. Ziggers think Ukraine has no choice in the matter. They join, or die.

They are being proven correct.

It's funny to see the shills pretend that oinkraine is some kind of totally legit and straight country with a totally not fake and gay ethnogenesis.

>>514133683
All the parts that have joined Ziggers have also died

>>514107639 (OP)
no, you are just a faggot

>>514107639 (OP)
a draw, status quo, nothing new