Thread 514874249

Supposing a statesman were to bring his people into the position of being obliged henceforth to practise 'big politics,' for which they were by nature badly endowed and prepared, so that they would have to sacrifice their old and reliable virtues, out of love to a new and doubtful mediocrity;—supposing a statesman were to condemn his people generally to 'practise politics,' when they have hitherto had something better to do and think about, and when in the depths of their souls they have been unable to free themselves from a prudent loathing of the restlessness, emptiness, and noisy wranglings of the essentially politics-practising nations;—supposing such a statesman were to stimulate the slumbering passions and avidities of his people, were to make a stigma out of their former diffidence and delight in aloofness, an offence out of their exoticism and hidden permanency, were to depreciate their most radical proclivities, subvert their consciences, make their minds narrow, and their tastes 'national'—what! a statesman who should do all this, which his people would have to do penance for throughout their whole future, if they had a future, such a statesman would be GREAT, would he?"—"Undoubtedly!"

Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche, Beyond Good & Evil, 1886

>>514874249 (OP)
german original:

Gesetzt, ein Staatsmann brächte sein Volk in die Lage, fürderhin `grosse Politik` treiben zu müssen, für welche es von Natur schlecht angelegt und vorbereitet ist: so dass es nöthig hätte, einer neuen zweifelhaften Mittelmässigkeit zu Liebe seine alten und sicheren Tugenden zu opfern, - gesetzt, ein Staatsmann verurtheilte sein Volk zum `Politisiren` überhaupt, während dasselbe bisher Besseres zu thun und zu denken hatte und im Grunde seiner Seele einen vorsichtigen Ekel vor der Unruhe, Leere und lärmenden Zankteufelei der eigentlich politisirenden Völker nicht los wurde: - gesetzt, ein solcher Staatsmann stachle die eingeschlafnen Leidenschaften und Begehrlichkeiten seines Volkes auf, mache ihm aus seiner bisherigen Schüchternheit und Lust am Danebenstehn einen Flecken, aus seiner Ausländerei und heimlichen Unendlichkeit eine Verschuldung, entwerthe ihm seine herzlichsten Hänge, drehe sein Gewissen um, mache seinen Geist eng, seinen Geschmack `national`, - wie! ein Staatsmann, der dies Alles thäte, den sein Volk in alle Zukunft hinein, falls es Zukunft hat, abbüssen müsste, ein solcher Staatsmann wäre gross?" "Unzweifelhaft!

Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche, Jenseits von Gut und Böse, 1886

>>514874249 (OP)
Na nietzsche is saying that, according to him, a statesman who sacrifices his country's blood and culture to chase territorial expansion, especially when his nation is not suited for warfare, is not a great statesman, is a destroyer.
You connect it with Hitler because such a statesman would also use nationalistic rhetoric, and so there are points of connection, but the circumstances were different

>>514874249 (OP)
Germans and Austrians are different peoples are they not like English and Irish , so they are not his peoples are they? But i guess close enough.

>>514874249 (OP)
Every generation has the same problems, and every generation has its version weebs. Just get a skill that can help your neighbors, get good at it. Don't forget, you're probably going to need more than one skill, and that's ok.
The US Founders, as well as Machiavelli, believed that the capacity to keep Jurisidiction, that is capacity to do violence on behalf of Lawful Order, was a necessary skill for every man.
>militia, being Necessary... the people to keep and bear arms...
You could read that as me becoming this great politician, but since I'm not holding your arm, that's no guarantee to me.

>>514875348
>'big politics,' for which they were by nature badly endowed and prepared
germans are like hobbits, dont want to bother with anything but their own comfy lives, even today most germans are perfectly fine with their circumstances, not being shocked by conditions of the capital & citycenters being nigger swamps, as long as politics keeps promising them that the nigs are euqlas & eventually will integrade germans are content & carefree.
>make their minds narrow, and their tastes 'national'
precisely how germans are, loving all the cultures, being tolerant towards any & all exotic ways of life. accepting faggotry & such without seeing a problem.
after the war germans too didnt even know what the whole "hitler-thing" was all about & why hitler was so angry. dont know anything about nation & pride.
this "narrow" is interesting since many germans say it would limit their culutural horizon if they were focus on gemrna culture alone, they like all sorts of things like nigger drum music aswell, so the argument goes, i heard it so many times.
>a statesman who should do all this, which his people would have to do penance for throughout their whole future, if they had a future,
exactly what happened to germany, notw just a husk of its former self. having to repent for all of eternity for the "dark" hitler-era.

>>514874249 (OP)
Neitzche definitely wanted to be Hitler but it just wasnt feasible during his lifetime. If he was around for nazi germany he would have been a top NAZI official.

>>514876241
>—supposing such a statesman were to stimulate the slumbering passions and avidities of his people, were to make a stigma out of their former diffidence and delight in aloofness, an offence out of their exoticism and hidden permanency.
hitler basically made it a offence to not care about the nation & not to want to do ones duty for the collective, while germans are used to simply mind their own business. thats why national socialists today are hated like that, we stir up the inert masses, trying to make them understand that struggle is necessary, while germans just want to remain blissfully ignorant, they have their beer & schnitzel & so all the world is fine for the individual.
those ethnonationalists are seen as troublemakers trying to tear the poepl out of their comfort zone which germans dont seem to like even a bit, since they dont even see a reason for doing so, they all have some jewish, arab or nigger colleague who speaks german well & who is industrious at work "what do these crazy radicals even want" the average guy thinks to himself whenever learning about far right activism.
>no one wants your promised land nazi, were good with what we have, all will continue to improve world peace is at hand.

'In the same way, our German pacifist will remain silent while the nation is groaning under an, oppression which is being exercised by a blood-thirsty military power, if this state of affairs can be altered only through active resistance and the employment of physical force, which is contrary to the spirit of the pacifist associations. The German international Socialist may be robbed and plundered by his comrades in all the other countries of the world, in the name of ‘solidarity,’ but he responds with fraternal kindness and never thinks of trying to get his own back, or even of defending himself. And why? Because he is a German. It may be unpleasant to dwell on such truths, but if something is to be clone we must start by diagnosing the disease.'

Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Stalag Edition
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'Genau so wird unser deutscher Pazifist zu jeder auch noch so blutigen Vergewaltigung der Nation, sie mag ruhig von den ärgsten Militärgewalten ausgehen, schweigen, wenn eine Änderung dieses Loses nur durch Widerstand, also Gewalt, zu erreichen wäre, denn dieses würde ja dem Geiste seiner Friedensgesellschaft widersprechen. Der internationale deutsche Sozialist aber kann von der anderen Welt solidarisch ausgeplündert werden, er selber quittiert es mit brüderlicher Zuneigung und denkt nicht an Vergeltung oder auch nur Verwahrung, weil er eben ein - Deutscher ist. - Dies mag traurig sein, aber eine Sache ändern wollen, heißt, sie vorher erkennen müssen.'

Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

>>514876415
nietzsche was antinationalistic, as many of those free thinkers & artistic types, nationalistic sentiments would limit ones broad creative persepctive.

"Being nationalistic in the sense in which it is now demanded by public opinion would, it seems to me, be for us who are more spiritual not mere insipidity but dishonesty, a deliberate deadening of our better will and conscience."
— Nietzsche, Unpublished Note

>>514874249 (OP)
seems like he did foresee a looming holocaust, but he was definitely against anti-semitism though his sister was a rabid antisemite and edited and spun his works post-breakdown to be antisemitic

>>514877395
he wasnt exactly prosemitic either though, he was just against crude allegations against the jews while he acknowledged their tenacity & persistence, while criticising german naivete. as many philisophers he had a more neutral stance with no horse in the game.

>>514875348
russians still have marx engels statues & busts in public spaces, recently they build murials for stalin again, the french, english, ameircans -same thing, except the germans dont recognize hitler a bit, after the hype subsided they just returned to be ambigious towards national matters. thats where i see nietzsche judging the german people precisely, they just rather live in poverty, pay back the demands from the versailles treaty & keep a low profile than ever truyl itnernalising nationalism & every heroic figure that ever stood for it. truly like innocent little lambs having no far sight & awareness of the historical perspective whatshowever.
you here germans in interviews about the reich saying something like:
>oh my, all the dicipline, the strict order that was demanded of the people by hitler, truly distressful & lets not forget this nasty militarism & all those soldiers marching in lockstep, dont get me started!
typical german mindset, half-asleep state of mind.

>>514874249 (OP)

why are german and french philosophers incapable of writing like normal people every paragraph written by a them reads like delusional ramblings of a homeless crackhead

normal people: coffee is made by boiling hot water and mixing it with coffee powder

germ/french philosphers: coffee beverage, known to be consumed by many men and women and everyone in between (as is now the custom among the western peoples;) is commonly prepared in a straightforward way if one dares to follow the recipe as described henceforth: one should find water to put in a container which can hold water and not one which doesn't, raise the temperature of the machine or appliance one uses to raise the temperature of the water or any other beverage once desires to use to heat up to proper temperature and then raise the temperature of said water until it is hot enough it can be mixed with powder of the coffee plant which is ground to powder in order to be able to be mixed with water heated to proper temperature,

>>514878907
>nietzsche
>german and french philosophers
polish as per his own opinion of himself.

>>514878907
pleb retard, you gotta read with you heart also, not just analize the word chains like a fucking soulless automaton, the author communicates a certain flow of emotion by the way he writes.

>>514878907
what are you reading, only technical manuals?
>one should find water to put in a container which can hold water and not one which doesn't
>which can hold water and not one which doesn't
lmao, funny post though, oddly lyrical.
-
1984 newspeak:
plusgood – the word that replaces Oldspeak words meaning "very good", such as great
plusungood – the word that replaces "very bad"
-
also language needs its little quirks & irregularities

>>514875758
>not like English and Irish
irish fighting a bloody war against the crown for 800 years.
no way, those island states are rebel colonies where everyone wants to mind their own business, same with american individualism, the impulse to even leave mainland europe & look for ones own fortune in foreing lands already proves a rebellious, adventurous & independent spirit, while those who stay at home always are more traditional & are less inclined to resist authority. arent the scottish, the welsh, manx still insisting on keeping & preserving their own peculiar cultures & mannerisms? yeah, like i said, migrant colony. imagine austria bombing citiy centers in germany to assert their independence from germany like the ira did in london & manchester. unthinkable.

>>514880503
consider what wagner writes about german homesickness, one wonders: who are those german americans then who could forsake their fathers soil to live amongst poles & italians in a far-away unknown territory? not lesser germans but certainly different ones.

“Deutsche” is the title given to those Germanic races which, upon their natal soil, retained their speech and customs. Even from lovely Italy the German yearns back to his homeland. Hence he quits the Romish Kaiser, and cleaves the closer and the trustier to his native Prince. In rugged woods, throughout the lengthy winter, by the warm hearth-fire of his turret-chamber soaring high into the clouds, for generations he keeps green the deeds of his forefathers; the myths of native gods he weaves into an endless web of sagas. He wards not off the influences incoming from abroad; he loves to journey and to look; but, full of the strange impressions, he longs to reproduce them; he therefore turns his steps toward home, for he knows that here alone will he be understood: here, by his homely hearth, he tells what he has seen and gone through there outside. Romanic, Gaelic (wälische), French books and legends he transposes for himself, and whilst the Latins, Gaels and French know nothing of him, he keenly studies all their ways. But his is no mere idle gaping at the Foreign, as such, as purely foreign; he wills to understand it “Germanly.” He renders the foreign poem into German, to gain an inner knowledge of its content. Herewith he strips the Foreign of its accidentals, its externals, of all that to him is unintelligible, and makes good the loss by adding just so much of his own externals and accidentals as it needs to set the foreign object plain and undefaced before him. In these his natural endeavours he makes the foreign exploit yield to him a picture of its purelyhuman motives.

Richard Wagner, What is German? (1865/1878)

https://ghdi.ghi-dc.org/pdf/eng/324_Wagner_What%20is%20German_97.pdf

>>514880668
german original:

„Deutsche" Völker heißen diejenigen germanischen Stämme, welche auf heimischem Boden ihre Sprache und Sitte sich bewahrten. Selbst aus dem lieblichen Italien verlangt der Deutsche nach seiner Heimat zurück. Er verläßt deshalb den römischen Kaiser und hängt desto inniger und treuer an seinem heimischen Fürsten. In rauhen Wäldern, im langen Winter, am wärmenden Herdfeuer seines hoch in die Lüfte ragenden Burggemaches pflegte er lange Zeit Urvätererinnerungen, bildet seine heimischen Göttermythen in unerschöpflich mannigfaltige Sagen um. Er wehrt dem zu ihm dringenden Einflusse des Auslandes nicht; er liebt zu wandern und zu schauen; voll der fremden Eindrücke drängt es ihn aber, diese wiederzugeben; er kehrt deshalb in die Heimat zurück, weil er weiß, daß er nur hier verstanden wird: hier am heimischen Herde erzählt er, was er draußen 'sah und erlebte. Romanische, wälische, französische Sagen und Bücher überseht er sich, und während Romanen, Wälsche und Franzosen nichts von ihm wissen, sucht er eifrig sich Kenntnis von ihnen zu verschaffen. Er will aber nicht nur das Fremde als solches, als rein Fremdes, anstarren, sondern er will es „deutsch" verstehen. Er dichtet das fremde Gedicht deutsch nach, um seines Inhaltes innig bewußt zu werden. Er opfert hierbei von dem Fremden das Zufällige, Äußerliche, ihm Unverständliche, und gleicht diesen Verlust dadurch aus, daß er von seinem eigenen zufälligen, äußerlichen Wesen so viel darein gibt, als nötig ist, den fremden Gegenstand klar und unentstellt zu sehen. Mit diesen natürlichen Bestrebungen nähert er sich in seiner Darstellung der fremdartigen Abenteuer der Anschauung der reinmenschlichen Motive derselben.

Richard Wagner, Was ist Deutsch? (1865/1878)

https://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/pdf/deu/324_Wagner_Was%20ist%20deutsch_97.pdf

>>514879923

Hegel

> This universal re-appearance of self-consciousness—the notion which is aware of itself in its objectivity as a subjectivity identical with itself and for that reason universal—is the form of consciousness which lies at the root of all true mental or spiritual life—in family, fatherland, state, and of all virtues, love, friendship, valour, honour, fame. But this appearance of the underlying essence may be severed from that essential, and be maintained apart in worthless honour, idle fame, &c.

Marx

> Whatever be the power of the means of production which are employed, competition seeks to rob capital of the golden fruits of this power by reducing the price of commodities to the cost of production; in the same measure in which production is cheapened - i.e., in the same measure in which more can be produced with the same amount of labour – it compels by a law which is irresistible a still greater cheapening of production, the sale of ever greater masses of product for smaller prices.

Lacan

> If what Freud discovered, and rediscovers ever more abruptly, has a meaning, it is that the signifier's displacement determines subjects' acts, destiny, refusals, blindnesses, success, and fate, regardless of their innate gifts and instruction, and irregardless of their character or sex; and that everything pertaining to the psychological pregiven follows willy-nilly the signifier's train, like weapons and baggage

I could go on but I'm already bored

It's not even that it is impossible to understand it's just dull and written in the most exhausting way possible. Compare it to Plato or other philisophers who lived 2000+ years ago and whose works are much more profound, interesting, important and better written

>>514881016
>Compare it to Plato or other philisophers who lived 2000+ years ago and whose works are much more profound, interesting, important and better written
yeah cant argue with that, latin & greek have a more archaic vocabulary.

again anon, more convoluted formulations have a pleasant flow to them, also the quotes you rprovided are translations whereas in their original languages they have a whole different coloration, same with the nitzsche quote from the op, it rolls off the tongue pleasantly when read in its original german version. perhaps you should expose yourself to literature written in your mother tongue, you will find that flowery, decorated language actually has its value. one can submerge oneself in the ocean of figures of speech & elaborate, playful linguistic maneuvres.