Thread 514941482

I think the world that you see around you, the physical world, is basically upside down, inverted. It's not what it appears to be. It's like before digital cameras where you had a film in the camera where the pictures were inverted, dark was light and vice versa, the colors were the opposite color and the mirror-image of what you got on the photographs after developing the film.

I'm not talking about shapes, colors etc. I'm talking about psychology. Mostly I'm talking about interactions with other people and all the fears that arise in you from these interactions. But it's also when you're alone, but mostly in thoughts which relate to other people. Like how others judge us, or how we judge ourselves. It's something very subtle, but it's going on constantly, this narrative, and our mind's deluded or distorted interpretation of it. You're never getting the actual thing, but always just the narrative that your mind is presenting to you, and it's wrong.

Think of any negative experience you had with another person recently. You can take that experience and analyze it, ie break it up into its constituent parts. You will find that it's made up of perceived attacks. Every such attack is a statement, not statements by the other person, but statements your mind makes. And every statement is associated with fear in your mind of losing something if you were to agree with the statement. So as a knee-jerk reaction to protect yourself you disagree with the statement. But the only way to see through the filter is to agree with the statements. Possibly nothing is harder than to do that.

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This is the message that's repeated in all religions and throughout novels and movies. But religions and other media have two layers or dimensions. The exoteric layer is normally subverting people, making them more deluded, where they are worse at seeing the truth and instead have more of this fear response. The esoteric layer is telling about the true perception of things. Why is it divided into two parts? Because you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Most people are not able to take in the truth.

Then you have to actually lead them in the opposite direction, away from truth, until something changes in their psychology and they start caring about the bigger questions. In The Matrix the scene where Morpheus jumps between two buildings symbolizes the action in the mind when you agree with the statement instead of disagree. This is what the Bible is talking about for example when it says turn the other cheek, "If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, give them your coat as well" etc.

https://youtu.be/9cL7HVU-uU4

https://youtu.be/tLVA07_ISUk?t=36

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Alice synthesis #30

>>514941579
?

>>514941482 (OP)
>is basically upside down, inverted.
Uh yeh, do you see my flag!?

bump

No criticism, counterarguments etc?

bump

>>514943274
Giver has more than Taker.

>>514943274
Consider the spectrum of light. We only percieve the "visible" light spectrum but infared and ultraviolet are always present. We are subject to forces unseen, such as gravity. We perceive gravity but magnetism less so. Sharks and other fish can sense magnetism to an extent to aid in hunting. The Budda said that everything is mind-made, it is pure thought. Nothing is really real, but it is real, in the sense that imagination has created every sub-atomic particle. This process of illusion is called Maya in Hinduism and Buddhism. We are suffering due to our ignorance. Awaken!

Another kind of interesting thing relating to this is that it seems to be related to time. Just as you can't prove that the physical world actually exists, you can't prove that the past ever existed or that the future ever will exist. I sometimes lie in bed with my eyes closed and think about this. You have all the content of your consciousness which you "see" in that moment as you're lying there. This includes emotions, memories etc. Most of those things seem to point to something beyond the things themselves. But you have no proof that there is anything beyond these things. To me there seems to be something powerful in trying to shift your mind from thinking that these things are representations of something beyond your mind, to thinking they are nothing other than exactly what they appear to be, and aren't representing anything beyond themselves. Because you have fear associated with many things that come into your mind. You'll have something pop into your consciousness, and at the same time you feel fear. So you can divide this into three parts.
1) the you which is observing, if it's even a thing, it's not all that important for this discussion 2) the content in the form of memories etc 3) the fear or negative emotion that happens at the same time as the content is appearing
Then the question arises, if it were the case that the content such as memories did not represent anything beyond your mind, beyond itself, but was only the thing as it's appearing, the consciousness content itself; and you have no proof anything beyond it actually exists or ever existed or ever will exist; then what exactly is the fear of? Of that thing itself? No, the fear is always directed at that other thing, which you have no proof exists.

>>514945931
1. The Observer, the Atman

2. Where are the memories stored? Why do some persistent yet others you forget?

3. Fear arises from ignorance, because if you knew then the thing need not be feared.

>what exactly is the fear of?
Ego desire not being satisfied is the root of fear.

>>514945931
>Just as you can't prove that the physical world actually exists, you can't prove that the past ever existed or that the future ever will exist
Counterpoint: nobody who's taken and passed a secondary school physics or chemistry class unironically believes this

>>514946450
Hinduism is interesting. Don't know too much about it but it but this was an interesting video I saw a few days ago.

https://youtu.be/nBQTm7m7u8g

I think it's very rewarding to compare different religions, philosophies etc to each other. A lot of times the understanding of one of them is deepened when it's compared to others, or just one other religion etc.

This is a decent book more in the Western tradition.

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/5827/5827-h/5827-h.htm

The first few chapters go into the distinction between what is perceived and the thing itself etc, which I think is a very important thing to learn about. Here's a fun clip from a movie which deals with that.

https://youtu.be/h73PsFKtIck

>>514946450
Hinduism is interesting. Don't know too much about it but this was an interesting video I saw a few days ago.

https://youtu.be/nBQTm7m7u8g

I think it's very rewarding to compare different religions, philosophies etc to each other. A lot of times the understanding of one of them is deepened when it's compared to others, or just one other religion etc.

This is a decent book more in the Western tradition.

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/5827/5827-h/5827-h.htm

The first few chapters go into the distinction between what is perceived and the thing itself etc, which I think is a very important thing to learn about. Here's a fun clip from a movie which deals with that.

https://youtu.be/h73PsFKtIck

here's another video about it

https://youtu.be/0drT_L4G8w8&t=135

>In several dialogues, most notably the Republic, Socrates inverts the common man's intuition about what is knowable and what is real. While most people take the objects of their senses to be real if anything is, Socrates is contemptuous of people who think that something has to be graspable in the hands to be real. In the Theaetetus, he says such people are "eu a-mousoi", an expression that means literally, "happily without the muses" (Theaetetus 156a). In other words, such people live without the divine inspiration that gives him, and people like him, access to higher insights about reality. Socrates's idea that reality is unavailable to those who use their senses is what puts him at odds with the common man, and with common sense. Socrates says that he who sees with his eyes is blind.

>>514947452
In the Western Tradition, the Grail Story is about Spiritual Awakening. Percival is the Holy Fool who is able to bring God's Love to King Arthur. Learn more about this story, it is profound with layered meaning.

https://youtu.be/61nCIyBCmjg?si=MZGNwtXzVdUrmZ91

>>514947452
For Hinduism, please start here:

https://youtu.be/kIqfOtruu0U?si=r9L43dlo3bK5iVXy

If you hear thoughts in your head in the form of actual sentences. You are communicating with an alien. He is not a human, talking without stopping is his specialty. So thats a pretty big deal, he plays it off like it’s not happening. I have no idea how many people he does this to.

>>514948338
Schizo alert

>>514948245
I have Bhagavad Gita As It Is, printed book, wasn't impressed with it. Not sure the Hare Krishna movement is the best source.

>>514941482 (OP)
My immediate thought was that you're just talking about stubbornness. But I think you're talking more about cognitive dissonance and the difficulty in accepting the differences of meanings of your experiences despite previous conditioning to the contrary. There is no spoon.

>>514948338
By "statements" I didn't mean spoken sentences. I meant propositions in the philosophical sense.

>a statement or assertion that expresses a judgement or opinion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposition

A proposition is a connection of two ideas/things, joining them together, judging one idea/thing to be or not to be another idea/thing. When I said "not statements by the other person, but statements your mind makes" I meant that you are perceiving another person to be having a proposition in their mind which involves you, but in actuality the proposition is occurring in your mind.

https://youtu.be/m8MyllahXgw?si=aX3I8HMCdSc2-Ros

>>514949697
what if the attack is not perceived but real

if you accept a fake attack your fine but if its a real attack your not lol

>>514941482 (OP)
I actually just laugh and tell them yeah maybe, then they do it again and again and i just smile more and they get tired and leave

>>514949941
It's not about whether there exists a threat or not, it's about whether you take it to heart or not. If someone comes up to you and is very aggressive then there could be a threat which you have to consider how to deal with. But the situation often escalates because you take to heart another person's negative attitude and opinion. Then it's about having your pride insulted, and when someone who is in the wrong state of mind senses that you had your pride insulted that insults their pride, and the situation escalates. External threats are not what this is about, it's totally about your own mind and psychology, and applies equally to someone who is on a desert island or in solitary confinement. The other people don't even need to have any negative opinions about you at all, in fact they don't even have to know you exist, envy on your part for example is included in this. Watch the clip I posted in the OP: https://youtu.be/tLVA07_ISUk?t=36

>>514941482 (OP)
Yes, our brain distorts objective reality due to biases.

>>514950595
wouldn't the calmative state of this be akin to nirvana or inner piece a cestation of existence

or is it possible to exist completly without an ego

im all for stopping tourtureing ourselfs but i dont know enough about the cost

>>514950595
btw voltare wrote candeed about this
it seems to be an extension of the this must be the perfect world argument no?

>>514950595
it also runs the risk of
>living in complete shit
>being happy about it

no?

>>514951627
if there even is an objective reality

>>514951639
>>514951702
>>514951979
I don't know, but I often think about how the past and the future don't exist, and how that implies that all the neurosis that is making life hard must be the barrier between yourself and heaven, because heaven can't be at some other place or time.

>>514953325
or we are brains in a box in some sick experiment

or a simulation

remember time is motion anon time is not real
we measure time by the motion of the universe

time does not make us age
we age and call it time

but you could be correct anon not saying your not