Thread 514943026

There are many retards on here and elsewhere who falsely believe and claim that even though the Soviets ultimately won in WW2, they did so at insane losses of 4:1 or 5:1 or whatever. This is bullshit and easily debunked if you look at the wikipedia article on the topic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_II)

There were 18-24 million civilian casualties on the Eastern Front. Most of them were on the Soviet side, and I think a lot of people lump those in as part of Soviet losses and that's the main reason where this false narrative comes from. But since those were civilians they should not be folded in as military losses.

Actual military losses according to the article was this:
>5.1 million Axis soldiers
>8.7-10 million Soviet soldiers

Yes, the Soviets did lose more soldiers. That's undeniably correct. But as you can see the ratio was less than 2:1. And most of the Soviet losses were from the first months when they were taken by surprise and whole armies got encircled captured. That's when and where and how most of the Soviet losses happened.

This narrative that the Soviets only managed to win by having infinity manpower and throwing half-armed (one soldier had the gun, and the other would have to loot it off his body after he died) human waves against entrenched German machine gun nests and fortified bunkers is complete and utter horseshit.

Also, the USSR did not have infinite manpower to just throw away like that. At their peak, the Axis powers even had a greater population than the USSR at one point. But even when the USSR did outnumber them it was never to an insane degree where the USSR could win just by suicidal zerg rushes. That isn't true, but it is a lie that persists.

>>514943026 (OP)
The Soviets suffered more losses because they are bad at fighting, inept soldiers, led by cowards, and only inflicted what casualties they inflicted because the Americans funded their entire war effort.

Soviets are low IQ, bad soldiers, and cowards. WE funded them. WE gave them their weapons. The victory belongs to us, and the pride belongs to us. The only thing the Russians have to be proud of is that they fought to help Jews enslave them even harder.

Stalin was assassinated by kikes after the war, died covered in piss stroking out in his own room while his guards laughed at him because the orders had come down to let him die.

>>514943026 (OP)
Пpaвдa !

>>514943127
We wuz!

>>514943127
>Americans founded the entire war effort
The american help was only a tiny fraction of the ressources soviets needed to fight. Well, it was important of course as it participated the war effort, lowered the suffering of soviet peoples and thus, shortened the war or made it more sustainable. But should there have been no US help, soviets would have juste made more effort on its own to compensate. More sacrifice, people starving, more death, the war a little longer but in no way. There is no way it would have fundamentaly changed the result

>>514943127
>WE gave them their weapons.
We gave them T-34s (which were objectively better than our own Sherman tanks, btw, and also the best tank any country in the world had until the Germans started making better tanks like the Tigers later on), Mosin-Nagants, Katyushas, Ilyushin Il-2s, etc? No. These were things the Soviets had and produced themselves in massive quantities. Sure we did send them Shermans and the like and they accepted it because you don't look a gift horse in the mouth, but it wasn't as good as their T-34s. They used that stuff in a supplemental capacity.

>>514943146
Why do you mock those who saved your people from the death camps?

>>514943127
>and the pride belongs to us.
>The only thing the Russians have to be proud of is that they fought to help Jews enslave them even harder.
You seem to be awful proud of your own country's role in that enslavement. You can't have it both ways. Either we helped (or did it all ourselves, as you say), or the Russians did it.

>>514943026 (OP)
You are correct but its pointless trying to correct anyone, especially the knuckle draggers on this site. There are a huge number of myths and fallacies about WW2. You have to dig beneath surface level to find them, as you have obviously done. But this is nothing new, and it extends all the way to the present day. Actually it gets worse the closer the approach the present day. Tell people the Ukraine is actually about secring economic objectives and their eyes glaze over. Tell them Ukraine possess the largest untapped natural gas reserves in Europe after Russia and they still can not connect the dots. Mention how Western Europe, particularly Germany, has a vested interest in controlling those resources and you may a well be speaking some alien language.
Welcome to the disinformation age, where propaganda has been not only supremely refined down to an exact science but also digitally enhanced for mass consumption on a global scale. Into every last corner of everyone's lives.
Truth, facts, and reality does not matter anymore. The only thing that matters is narrative, and if its plausible enough then that is all that counts. Feed it out and they will lap it up. Weapons of mass destruction. Axis of Evil. Alliance of the Willing. Covid. Herd immunity ( lol, "herd" is right ). Social distancing. It becomes more like a Stars Wars script with every passing decade.
The general population has become very dumbed down, and those who still retain some education and intelligence have been ground down by the demands of the modern era. Most dont have the time or energy to contest the fabrications, they dont care anymore. Those who do care are so greatly outnumbered it doesn't matter either.

>>514943736
the US aid was absolutely decisive

>>514943853
alright retard. and how would they have made those tanks without the US shipping literally entire factories to the USSR? machinery, tooling? aluminium and steel mills? oil refineries? The USSR lost its industrial capacity in the opening year of the war. where would they be without 2.6 million TONS of petroleum products and fuel that they could not produce themselves? 14000 p-39 aircraft? 4.5 million tons of food?

the red army was fed and equipped by the united states and britain. THAT is a fact that Stalin himself reiterated in 1943:
"The most important things in this war are the machines... The United States is a country of machines. Without the machines we received through Lend-Lease, we would have lost the war."

Khruschev:
"If the United States had not helped us, we would not have won the war. One-on-one against Hitler's Germany, we would not have withstood its onslaught, and we would have lost the war"

Zhukov:
"People say that the Allies didn’t help us. But it cannot be denied that the Americans shipped over to us materiel without which we could not have equipped our reserves or continued the war. The Americans provided vital explosives and gunpowder. And how much steel! Could we really have set up tank production without American steel?"

>>514943736
>>514943853
We gave them all their trucks and fuel. Without that they would not have been able to make all those tanks or have the motorization to make deep advances.
Shermans were way better than t-34s. And we didn't send those. Mostly obsolete Lee tanks. The British sent the most tanks.

>>514943026 (OP)
Faggot.. you'd be among the 25 million dead for being such and idiot.

>>514944140
>the US aid was absolutely decisive
The war was decided in Stalingrad, retard. Almost all of lend-lease came after that.
>muh numbers
Amounted to little more than a couple percentages of total war effort.

>>514944299
Everything you believe is post war Soviet revisionist history. They would not have had the equipment for any of the other counter offensives without lend lease. What about
>But it cannot be denied that the Americans shipped over to us materiel without which we could not have equipped our reserves or continued the war.
do you not understand?

>>514943889
seeing how jews treat people who saved them from the camps, whether those people be white americans or russians, is proof that jews deserve extermination

>>514944140
>The USSR lost its industrial capacity in the opening year of the war.
That's not true. Even before the war began, Stalin seemed to have anticipated it and had moved most of the Soviet industry to the Urals which the Germans were never able to reach.
>The extent of Western knowledge of the huge eastward shift was summed up as follows: "...Even before the outbreak of war, large electrical equipment plants were removed from White Belorussia on the German frontier and also from the Leningrad district to the Urals and Western Siberia. One such plant is reported to have been removed to Sverdlovsk during 1940 and to have been producing normally in March, 1941. Any plant except the largest smelting, steelmaking, and chemical works can be moved by railroad fairly quickly and with little damage."[10]:262–263 "...Thus, while no figures will be available for some time, it is my opinion that large portions of the industrial machinery formerly located in areas now occupied by the Germans, instead of being captured by them, are already in operation a thousand or more miles east of the present front, in Stalin's Ural Stronghold."[10]:262–263

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnitogorsk_Iron_and_Steel_Works

As for the rest of what you said about our lend-lease helping their industry further, I don't deny that. But you're wrong when you say they lost their own industrial capacity that they had. If Stalin had been stupid and not moved it before hand then the Germans would have captured it like you said, but he moved it to the urals where it remained and in fact is still the industrial center of Russia to this day.

>>514944233
good point…

>>514943127
>The victory belongs to us, and the pride belongs to us. The only thing the Russians have to be proud of is that they fought to help Jews enslave them even harder.
What exactly do you have to be proud of? Old Eric?

>>514944233
>1566185207747.jpg
All this picture proves is that the USSR lives rent-free inside your head. I'm guessing you're a Ukrainian hiding in Denmark in order to avoid the draft.

>>514944811
>pick out one sentence
>this is now gospel
nigger, this extremely well documented so you can go and suck a dick. It is even mentioned in the link you posted.
Ukraine alone represented about 40% of the USSR's industrial base. Before the war 80% of USSR industrial base was west of the urals. the orders to move the industrial base came directly from stalin in june of 1941. quit coping

>>514944568
>don't believe in objective facts it's post-war revisionism
>believe in this completely made up post-war quote Zhukov personally denied ever saying
Kek. The seethe is palpable.

>>514945229
As a kid I saw soviet graves with numbers on it in my town near lillehammer. Why are they so far south? They were PoW. I also have a photo of my townsfolk looking down on unmarked nazi graves in the same yard.

Basically they were worked to death. That is added to the number of total deaths.

>>514943127
>WE funded them. WE gave them their weapons.

>>514943026 (OP)
>This is bullshit and easily debunked if you look at the wikipedia article on the topic:

>wikipedia


Green & fat thread.

>>514945318
Anyways thank you.

>>514944177
>We gave them all their trucks and fuel.
False. I don't know about other models, but they produced a million of this model of truck alone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZIS-5_(truck)

>In total, the U.S. deliveries to the USSR through Lend-Lease amounted to $11 billion in materials (equivalent to $148 billion in 2023):[56] over 400,000 jeeps and trucks; 12,000 armored vehicles (including 7,000 tanks, about 1,386[57] of which were M3 Lees and 4,102 M4 Shermans);[58] 11,400 aircraft (of which 4,719 were Bell P-39 Airacobras, 3,414 were Douglas A-20 Havocs and 2,397 were Bell P-63 Kingcobras)[59] and 1.75 million tons of food.[60]

We sent the USSR 400,000 Trucks according to Wikipedia. That's not an insignificant amount, but its not even half as much as that one model of Truck they made themselves (in addition to whatever other models they made). So not only are you wrong when you say we sent them "all" their trucks, we didn't even send them most of their trucks.

As for fuel, I see nothing about us sending them any of that. And why would we need to when they were the largest producers of fuel in the world at that time? Hitler's whole purpose for invading was try to get their Baku oilfields which he never did btw. It was the British who needed and received fuel from us, but not the Soviets.

Our most important contribution to the USSR was probably food. The area the Germans did manage to capture was the breadbasket of the USSR. So they would have starved if it wasn't for the food aid we sent them. That was our most important way of helping them, but few ever mention that.

That's right, because the Germans didn't kill any Soviets. Open a book.

>>514943026 (OP)
Russo shills burning the midnight oil I see.

Prisoner of war deaths account for 1/3 of all soviet casualties with 15-18 million civilian deaths not including the jewish ones; the nazis didn’t give a fuck. Millions also died from famine from scorched earth during the invasion because once nazis seized territory they didn’t give a fuck.

That’s why we have international laws. Laws that Israel and the US are breaking.

>We didn't have lots more deaths, only double
Double the people is more than twice as strong, as one can work a factory and one can shoot, or one can spot and one can shoot. That's a massive k/d ratio.
>They actually killed 6 trillion civilians but just in Russia and not in other places
No.

>>514943026 (OP)
You lost
Follow your leader

>>514943127
for you

>>514943127
It is funny. US definitely funded them and the only reason they existed is because FDR was a traitorous kike loving fuck who demanded we fund them and keep their terror state afloat.
It is a shame the US never sided with Germany but the kike control was too deep for it, hence why shit like the Anti-Nazi boycotts and escalation happened.

>>514943127
We wuz viktors n sheittt

Ay mane u erd George Floyd’s grampa dun kilt hitler n sheit?

>>514943026 (OP)
According to the Russian Academy of Sciences the Soviets suffered 12-14m military deaths, an additional 15m missing or non-fatal casualties, and another 20m civilians of collateral damage.
This is a total of roughly 50 million, this includes Baltics, Polish, and pro-Soviets outside the Soviet controlled zones so the number is likely significantly lower if we are talking strictly Soviets.
However for soldiers the Germans saw 2.5m dead from ALL fronts and 12m dead Red Army soldiers, Western soldiers numbered roughly 1.2m total in all engagements related to Europe, this includes SOE and resistance.

>>514947533
Stalins second wife wasn’t Jewish at all, a turbo mutt, Georgian/Gypsy/Volga German/Ukrainian, his first wife was Georgian.

Beria also wasn’t Jewish he was mingrelian georgian.

>>514943127
We were literally playing with our dicks sending 16 year olds to die for useless little islands and came to Eroupe for clean up. You are retarded.

>>514945715
Lend-Lease was not what made the Soviets win, the Germans lost once Barbarossa failed, it was only a matter of time, the logistical aspect of Lend-Lease was by far the most crucial element as it sped up the war effort immensely for the Soviets and saved a few million Soviet lives in retrospect, by May 1945, almost half of all trucks were from Lend-Lease, not to mention that American trucks were vastly better than Soviet trucks

>>514943026 (OP)
There are no reliable numbers on Soviet losses in WW2. Because immediately after the war they massively downplayed their losses and in later times they were exaggerated by either German ex-military to stroke their own egos or Western leftists to further the muh poor Soviet-Union dindu nuffin narrative. Noone will ever know. just like you don't know how many casualties Ukraine of Russia takes today.

>>514946348
Slavs are weak bitches

>>514948709
Yes it is.

>>514947085
>According to the Russian Academy of Sciences the Soviets suffered 12-14m military deaths, an additional 15m missing or non-fatal casualties, and another 20m civilians of collateral damage.
You have a link to this source? It seems to me a Russian source would claim their side suffered even greater losses than what the Wikipedia article states. If its true it should be in that article.

>>514943026 (OP)
3e Reich still living rent free in the minds of vatniks
lol,
lmao