Thread 514954721

I find it funny how niggas under 35 cry constantly that having kids is expensive, but then drop hundreds, if not thousands, if necessary, on a vet visits, food, toys, accessories, etc, for their "pupper wholesome doggo" every year.

Also, if you call your pet your "baby", you're mentally ill.

>>514954721 (OP)
its sad really. having kids is not expensive at all. but its likely they have absurdly high expectations of what they think they will need and what they want to give their kids to play with etc. they dont need everything new nor the latest whatevers and its actually better if they dont.

I would rather just have a boyfriend or a girlfriend that acts like a pet. (I'm a genius, so I am allowed to be bisexual, because as Ezra Pound said, a man of genius has the right to any mode of expression.)

>>514954721 (OP)
Pets are not kids. They’re not substitutes for kids. They don’t fill the void of no kids. People are too nice to “dog parents” and should instead be reminding them that pets are not kids. No you cannot bring your dog to work on bring your kid to work day.

>>514955408
emotions dont have to make sense anon. the problem is women not having kids.

>>514954721 (OP)
i cant afford my kids(we have 3) so the govt gives me 600 a month for food

>>514954923
Not expensive when you're a jeet that can just feed your kids shit mixed with spices and have the government pay for everything. Whites don't get that option, Rajesh.

The truth is most urbanites and educated people were talked out of having children in favor of careers.

>>514955592
oh shut up faggot. you should be ashamed for even trying to make white people think having white kids is too expensive. we feed our kids the best foods around, nothing premade, nothing with added whatevers, lots from the garden. if you're not buying organic grains and grinding at home you're not even trying, and no, thats not too expensive either.

I tried.

In Poland IT is massive phenomena. These retards are mentally ill. Most of them in cities. Fucking hell Man. It is mental hospital.

>friend's dogs are in constant need of some kind of medication
>sister's dog needed multiple expensive surgeries and died young anyways
>dad's dog got a taste for ripping power and internet cords off the side of the house

my kids are far less expensive. they play the video games we already own or f2p shit like roblox. they watch tv on sites like archive.org. they eat what my wife and i have always ate, we just need to make 1.5x as much food as we would for the two of us. no dog cam needed as my kids can pick up the phone and tell us if something happens.

and kids constantly learn and grow, unlike a pet that you have to start over with every 8-15 years. it just takes a bit more initial effort than training a puppy for a few months. people who prefer a pet over kids for financial reasons are simply taking the easy route and making up excuses for it.

>>514956169
>simply taking the easy route and making up excuses for it.
i believe you're right

>>514956169
like, it hurts me seeing good people that would raise great kids waste time and resources on a string of pet after pet. they will never know the absolute pride that comes from your very young kid saying "my turn" and taking the book from you and beginning to read it themselves.

>>514956169
>friend's dogs are in constant need of some kind of medication
Why is every dog owner like this now? Vets are so full of shit, when I was a kid our dog never once went to the vet and lived to be 13

>>514956169

Kids are much more expensive than pets. Imagine wanting to bring a child into this,pedophile prison planet. You people are so egotistical and insane.

>I can fix the world with my semen!

Oh, you want to save the planet? Drop your job, get a pew pew and go free us from the demons in suits. That’s right, you won’t and you’ll tell your faggot offspring to vote and have more kids who will vote for more dogshit.

>>514956498
most people dont seem to walk their dogs much let alone get them some real exercise, and feed them crap. at least thats what i see. hell, i dont see many people even walk around much anyway. everything needs an engine.

>>514956554
get fucked you demonic little gook.

>>514956554
>make assertion
>follow it up with a bunch of bullshit unrelated to that assertion
idk how debates work in whatever shithole you're vpn'ing from but they require some actual connection between thoughts around here

>>514954721 (OP)
FUN FACT;
>KIDS COST LESS TO RAISE THAN PETS COST TO KEEP
Stop listening to juden.

>>514956317
Good for you. I’m here to actually be compassionate and not bring another white child into this shit to be beat and tortured by niggers like I have been. It’s pointless to have children in a culture less economic zone where the state actually lets “minorities” (read the actual brown majority) kill minority whites with impunity and even pay them for it

>>514954721 (OP)
>I find it funny how niggas under 35 cry constantly that having kids is expensive, but then drop hundreds, if not thousands, if necessary, on a vet visits, food, toys, accessories, etc, for their "pupper wholesome doggo" every year.
Niggers have 8 kids and 4 baby mamas and get along fine with govt gibs. Whites would rather have switch 2 and pokemon cards, they're just not being honest with each other.

>>514954721 (OP)
BUT HITLER SAID MUH ANIMOLS GOOD. Note that anyone who fell for that ploy accepts that albinos < animals.
Anyone who fails to see the devilish irony in that move, and the fact that Hitler called his subhuman (animal) dog “Blondie” is a victim of Hitlerism. And I fully support that.

These threads are usually filled with tradcucks who have no kids, telling other people to have kids.
Maybe some guys on here do have them. But /pol/ has failed in even making a dent on this issue. What could the reason be? I despite tradcuck control freaks but I really want to know why /pol/ failed so miserably on raising the birthrates.

>>514954923
My cat costs us more in monthly costs that my 2yo toddler lol.
He's great tho, getting old. Will be sad when he's gone.

>>514957196
because reading a few posts on a Tajiki Goat Massage forum doesn't really change much at all.

>>514954721 (OP)
>how can we have a kid on only $200k a year??
Meanwhile abdula living off welfare at home is having 8 kids

>>514957319
the cat or the toddler? i do miss some parts about having toddlers around. my little boy was the coolest kid whenever we went to the store. never the slightest little upset or anything. everyone loved him.

>>514957342
Yes but /pol/ always fancied itself as having influence. There were campaigns in the past, many memes were made. We talk about this here every hour. Why no positive change?

Dropping facts in a doggot thread

>>514956739
My dog has never liked walking, he refuses to walk further than two blocks. So we just never go on walks, turning 15 in December.

>it costs more to have a pet than a kid

yeah I guess, if you raise your kid like a fucking rat only feeding them your leftovers

>>514954721 (OP)
They measure births-per-woman because you never know who's kids they are, even for the tradsimps.

>>514955791
Okay brownoid

>>514954721 (OP)
>can't afford
>prefer
not the same thing

>>514954721 (OP)
I was driving somewhere yesterday and noticed a shit ton of cars parked in an area and was like what the fuck is going on there. It was a fucking vet office. All the retards must have had their pets getting serviced.

>>514954721 (OP)
Pets are retardedly expensive as well. good luck forking over 10k for an emergency visit.
pets are very expensive in America, every vet visit, every medication and now they're rolling out health insurance for pets.
That article must be from 2015, pets are not cheap anymore if they ever were.

>>514954923
>Blah blah blah yay yap blah blah I have an opinion blah blah

>>514954923
>having kids is not expensive at all.
Kids require a sedan or suv with cars seats, daycare, and extra space for housing. It's $1k to $2k extra per month when broken out. That's on the low end and assumes you have the time and stability. It adds up. Not everyone has an extra $20k to $30k a year for children.

>>514957711
no afford is a good word.
there was a behaviourist called Gibson who had an idea about affordances in the environment. A chair affords sitting.
it's not a monetary thing. it's what you can do with your environment, considering your goals.

>>514956169
>>514956317

>like, it hurts me seeing good people that would raise great kids waste time and resources on a string of pet after pet. they will never know the absolute pride that comes from your very young kid saying "my turn" and taking the book from you and beginning to read it themselves.

Connecting empathically with other people doesnt require the other person to be their literal direct blood spawn for some people.

>>514957443
its a hard thing to get people to change their minds about having kids. lots of factors and not a little bit of fear and not wanting commitment. lots of people cant move out of their parents home, even though that doesn't stop people all around the world having kids either.

>>514957900
thankfully i have a bunch of kids which gives my opinion at least a bit of validity. ive also taken several years off work and still manage to not be a hand wringing faggot who thinks having kids is too expensive.

>>514957420
The cat lol...

>>514956317
Based leaf dad here knows the truth. Nothing is better than watching your kids thrive at something. I taught my younger son how to ski last year; he went from crying and falling down for a half hour to all of a sudden Getting It and then he was unstoppable. The sheer pride he felt was doubled by how I felt. Watershed moment. And now a reason for us to look forward to winter that much more.

Anons if you think you can’t afford kids just remember that immigrants will come here with nothing and just have them anyway and figure out how to afford it later. That’s our competition. Yes, it’s a good idea to get your life in order as much as you reasonably can first, but if you’re getting too old to wait, you need to get those babies birthed and worry about perfection later on. Otherwise there you will be at 40 with furbabies and no legacy. Life will be really really fucking lonely for a lot of folks who haven’t made good choices. An ugly woman that loves you is way better than being alone…

All women want a kid, just not with their current boyfriend

>>514954721 (OP)
My first child so far has cost far less than any of my friends spend on their pets by order of magnitude. My only really impacted expenses are patience and time.
If you have them rapidly the cost becomes less and less besides food. 2 in one year and you're second is free Healthcare wise. Meanwhile these retards are giving their cats prescription anti depressants. My parents spend 6$/day on wet cat food... fuck right off

>>514958071
Wonderful you can connect with other people but if you don’t understand the difference between that and fatherhood you’re just telling us all that you’ve not managed to become a dad yet. You have no mental basis for comparison. Some things cannot be told, they’re just blindingly obvious when you cross over a threshold.

>>514954721 (OP)
I don't understand how people can afford so many pets either. They're too expensive too.

>>514958107
Not being able to attract women and the prospect of never owning a home means lots of guys are shit out of luck. Sperging out at guys online won't achieve anything.

>>514957929
you're talking nonsense. until youve got more than 2 kids almost any car at all is just fine. i drive one of the smallest cars on the road. seats? sure. not expensive. daycare? absolutely not. thats moms job. extra space? we lived for the first 3 years in an RV and the kids just had a pack and play for their beds, one tucked into the space at the bottom of my bed in the slide, the other one on moms bed in the back (once they were old enough to even need their own bed).

anyway, your post is a troll but it does capture what some people think is true so thanks.

>>514958132
>like
that guy is clearly a fag
most men can afford kids. they can't afford women. or if you try to, you begin to speak like one.

>>514954721 (OP)
Kids aren’t that expensive

>>514958208
Yes. Cloth diapers, second hand toys and clothes, free shit from FB and Craigslist, the most expensive part of the whole thing is your own lack of sleep.

Also consider this: After having kids, I proceeded to do far better in my career. Didn’t know it, but dads respect dads more, and when a dad my age (with kids around 10yo) meets someone with babies, there’s more respect there than for someone with a dog, obviously! And that impacts career advancement, because who do I think is more responsible and worthy of a promotion? Who do I cut more slack to because I know what they’re dealing with? To say nothing of the increased ambition caused by knowing someone depends on you… so now I make double what I made before kids and that’s in no small part thanks to them!

>>514958124
ha

>>514958297
whos sperging? certainly not me, unless you think calling out the antinatalists is sperging. almost anyone can attract a woman. it just depends on what kind of standard you think you deserve, and home ownership isnt a necessity for having kids. i know good solid families who have rented a place their entire lives. some had 4+ kids.

>>514958232
So you're admitting to having trouble with connecting with other people (unless they are your blood spawn)? Also, making a lot of declarative statements while avoiding asking questions in an argument/conversation says a lot.

>>514958071
Imagine cringing at fatherhood and then using a gif from the Sopranos lmao. Tony had kids bro

>>514958438
>Yes. Cloth diapers, second hand toys and clothes, free shit from FB and Craigslist, the most expensive part of the whole thing is your own lack of sleep.
yeah, well said. ive got bags and bags of kids clothes that just turned up from friends and friends of friends. could open up a small store ive got so many.

>>514958310
Yep, he’s in the trap of letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. You can get car seats for free or cheap online all the time, I know this because I have been purging kid stuff for years as they age out of it and the resale market is pretty flat, often times I just have to give stuff away to get rid of it. 1000 bucks a month for a toddler? You’re on crack, it’s like $100 of food or less and a bunch of second hand clothes and toys. Fuck off with your propaganda.

>>514954721 (OP)
>niggas
opinion discarded

>>514956169
based leaf exposing the truth, fuck petnutters

>>514954721 (OP)
pets are not cheap either.

If you think kids aren’t expensive, wait until you have to pay for daycare and sports.

>>514958527
I have difficulty connecting with childless manchildren online, for whom I only have tough love style advice about making the most of your life, not expecting unrealistic outcomes, and so on

>>514954721 (OP)
Its a cope retard. Pet is like a exepnsive toy replica of a car you cant have.
>>514954923
They need a house thats one thing and not be in eternal debt to get it. Bit go ahead blame gadgets boomer piece of shit.

>>514958296
Millennials and Zoomers have more disposable income to allow for affording pets
Now pay attention to how many animal hoarder and animal cruelty bodycam videos show Gen-Z or millennial owners

There is an STD that costs you $300k and 18 years to cure. There's a 50% chance of you catching it if you have sex. Would you still do it?

>>514958606
>the trap of letting the perfect be the enemy of the good
exactly. really really exactly.
as for car seats yeah, you can get them for next to nothing or free. they do have a 'use by' date on them but ive never thought much about that. seems like a load of crap.

>>514958697
it was a simple question

>>514957929
Oh no, you might have to buy a cheaper used minivan rather than your current year vehicle! Oh no, your kids won't have a mcmanor's amount of space to play with their shit! Excuses excuses excuses excuses, go die alone already holy shit. You've already abandoned your duty to your family and country because you want more shiny brand new Chinese gadget

>>514958482
You're not sperging, but /pol/tards (who usually don't have kids themselves) are sperging at guys who for not having kids, I've seen it for years.
>almost anyone can attract a woman
Fake news I can't do it.

>>514958665
Daycare is a choice. If your wife earns enough money to pay for it and still takes home enough that it is worth her time to be working, then it’s not actually a bad expense, is it? And if she does not, then she should be at home taking care of them herself. It’s only for a few years until they start school anyway. If you have a healthy family, your kid will have grandparents to lean on, and so you may only need to pay for 2-3 days a week of daycare.

Again, you’re searching for reasons why you can’t do this, which is the wrong mindset. You need to start with the mindset of “yes, I will fulfill the biological imperative and be a successful life form”, and reason backward from there. If it means some sacrifices for you, GOOD, because that implies you’re not presently performing at the level you are capable of, and a bit of asceticism will probably help you mature.

>>514958712
you have no idea what you're talking about. was born in the mid 80s. and you dont need to own a home to have kids. you aim to own a home and have kids along the way, otherwise you might be getting too old to have them if you wait. you can reject what im saying all you like but having kids as soon as you are married and THEN working towards getting your own place is just fine. it might even be better because you feel the push and drive of necessity pushing you to do better. i respond well to that situation anyway.

>>514954923
>either you need to have one parent stop working or pay the extra $135 (aus avg) daily daycare costs. immediately ~$35k annual
>not expensive
that's just making sure they are watched so they don't stick a fork in the electrical outlet, not even any of the other costs

>>514958731
Especially in Česko where jews run rampant with whoreifying czech girls with porn production.

I have lots of friends with white kids and can say that maybe less kids are getting born, but the final losers after a shord period of time will be the demonic antihuman jews. Nobody wants them and less and less people still believe them.

>>514958888
>are sperging at guys who for not having kids, I've seen it for years
oh i see what you mean. well, its at least true that they are correct about it being important to have kids. how they express it might not be so good.
>Fake news I can't do it.
well i think you're hot stuff baby

>>514958911
Yep. Way too many people think they’re going to be better at earning pre-kid and that they should save up and align everything first. In reality having the kids will spur you on to better career success. Gimme a Time Machine, I’ll have them younger than I did… by 26 would have been a good time to start, I waited till 30, wasted years. What was I doing from 26-30 as a married guy? A lot of drinking and video games and nothing to show for it. You can learn from me

>>514958942
daycare is cancer anon. do everything in your power to make sure your kids are not sent to one.

>>514959074
ok, so the mother needs to stop working which is an immediate -$70k annual. congrats

>>514958888
Well with an attitude like yours I can see why

The thing is that a pet and a baby probably cost the same assuming you either have insurance or tell the hospital to take a hike (BASED), so you might as well have jr. and then figure out how to budget in Fido later on. Like the people who say this are also the people spending 2000 bucks on their dog's cancer surgery and 100 a month on pet insurance, it's a little delusional to claim having doggo for 8 years is a better investment than .

>>514959057
couldnt agree more anon. marriage and kids activates your almonds like nothing else

>>514959125
do better. seriously. avoid daycare like the plague....and then avoid school just the same.

>>514959057
men need to earn more when they're with a woman that has kids because now they're on the hook for everything.
it's like going into debt for 10s of thousands of dollars and knowing that you need to work more to pay it off.

>>514958549
Bro where did I say I was against fatherhood??? I'm cringing at cope and projection.

>>514954721 (OP)
>spends all their money on uber eats
>spends all their money on vacations
>spends all their money on starbucks
>spends all their money on adult toys
>buys or leases brand new cars every 3 years
>pays everyone to do the work for them
>omg why can't I afford a kid and be reach like my parents
>ignore that their parents cooked at home, didn't go on vacations all the time, lived in a modest house, did their own home/car repairs, drove shitty cars
I was guilty of this when I was like 24 and then I realized oh yeah my parents bought used cars until they were in their mid 40s, they lived in a modest 3/2 house that my dad did all the work on, my mom cooked meals all the time.

>>514959017
That's rude that you are mocking me in this time of pain. I could just never attract women. /pol/'s arrogance will never let it accept that the way they talk to guys on this issue turns them off from it. Some tradcuck (who doesn't have kids himself) sperging out at guys provides no incentive. You understand this. Don't play dumb.
>>514959145
It's not about attitude I could just NEVER attract women. I could have the best attitude in the world it wouldn't make a difference.

>>514958898
My wife makes $370k so it’s impractical for her to quit. But our daycare was $4700 a month for our kid, which is expensive. Now my kid is starting sports and let me tell you travel leagues are not cheap.

>>514959541
I agree that people are bad with money, but circlejerking on /pol/ with like minds isn't going to achieve anything. /pol/ often complains that people CHOOSE not to have kids, so unless you can change that then this is all mental masturbation.

>>514954923
/thread

I have dogs that I love, but I don’t treat them like children. Dogs are far cheaper than kids.and take up far less time. Childcare in the UK can cost over 1k a month, per child, for just three days a week.

>>514959549
>That's rude that you are mocking me in this time of pain.
i can hardly mock your attractiveness when i have no idea who or what you are. but you see every kind of guy with a woman

>>514959594
you'd be able to be a stay at home dad for a few years. anything to keep the kids out of daycare.

>>514959549
They're just trolling you. A lot of them DO have kids and are looking to cope via trolling because it IS financially challenging these days.

>>514959549
just travel a bit and you'll see how bad American women are. the tradsimps bragging on here are jumping through hoops all day just to keep what they have.
the grass is always greener on the other side.

>>514959161

Who the fuck is paying $100 a month on pet insurance? My dog is only £100 for a year.

>>514954923
No, they want to spend time with the kid.
They were raised by boomers, and know the hell having to exist near someone like that is, let alone being left with them for 8-10 hours a day so mommy and daddy can both go to work.
Or a 3rd world immigrant, or a black woman, or a pedo fag, or a fat person, etc. etc. etc.
I do not want scum any where near my child during formative years, therefore my wife or I need to be with it at all times.
Can't do that? Oh well, no kids.
Pretty much every aspect of current society is poisonous to normal human function/thought/behavior/reality.
And this is just if I had a boy.
I WOULD get a hot tiger nanny.

>>514959549
Nigger you come here trying to get white people to have fewer kids because youre too cowardly to ask out a girl yourself. Dont start with that 'time of pain' shit. You could match looks with a lonely ugly/fat girl but you won't so you want to bring others down to your level, fuck off. Suffer in silence.

>>514959426
He didnt say anything that was coping or projecting

>>514959852
lots of people at all times through history have found supporting a family financially challenging but they still just got on and did what they could. its possible on really very little money but many are not willing to accept it.

>>514959852
I don't believe that the tradcucks here have kids. They're posers. Some guys here do have kids but it's rare.
>>514959842
Women never liked me, they like other guys but not me. And you mocked me, calling me hot stuff as a joke when women have never given me one droplet of validation. I hate you.
>>514959895
The women here are awful too lmao.

>>514960003
You're an absolute fucking RETARD if that's what you read into my post. White people aren't having kids on their own, there is nothing I need to do on that part. Holy fuck you are one delusional retarded autist.
Also, birthrates globally are going down. Maybe if you spam memes and socially shame guys on here some more, someone will finally listen to you jej.

>>514959842
I make more than my wife so it wouldn’t have made sense for me to take a sabbatical either. Kids are expensive. We had one because we can afford it, but it still reduces our savings by quite a bit.

>>514959978
you can always afford to keep mom at home if you make the necessary changes. either in where you live, what do you do for a living, or often both. its not about keeping your current life and adding kids - its about doing whatever you need to do to create, as closely as possible, the environment you want to have those kids in. im not saying its easy.

>>514960020
>just raise your kids dirt poor bro
People have higher standards these days. Quality > quantity.

>>514960024
Canada is in North America. we're included.

the fact is: they measure births-per-woman because of a simple slogan in genetics
>Mommy's baby, daddy's maybe
unless these tradsimps have seen a dna test, they really are clueless about who's kid they're raising.
the fact is, men have as many kids as they can, and women have as many as they want. it's just a tradsimp talking point to blame men for everything when clearly women are responsible.

>>514954721 (OP)
This is kike propaganda. Kids arent that expensive. Just budget and plan.

>>514954721 (OP)
This. My first child has been net zero so far. I got taxes back for claiming her, my insurance covered 100% of childbirth (not uncommon for natal and birth costs to be covered 80%-100%).
My wife has breastfed her.
Family gave us tons of free baby clothes.
The baby shower got us enough diapers to last almost the entire first year.
The most expensive thing has been her baby foods, as she has begun weaning herself off the breast milk.
By my wife has been feeding her whole foods and the baby food is getting eaten less and less.
Her pediatrician visits are also 100% covered.

Compare this to the vet costs for pets, and you only get 13 years for a dog, and maybe 15 for a cat.
So by the time you're putting your cat or dog down, your kid would be reaching teenage status andcan be a valuable asset to the family, helping with chores, etc.
And so the point is that food costs and clothes are the highest cost stuff over their lifetime.
If you really can't afford it, a kid will make it infinitely easier to obtain food stamps and other govt assistance.
>If niggers abuse it, why should you?
It amazing how this psyop has worked so amazingly on the millennial generation.

>>514960020
>lots of people at all times through history have found supporting a family financially challenging but they still just got on and did what they could. its possible on really very little money but many are not willing to accept it.

Throughout most (like 99.9%) of human history there was an economic "incentive" to have children. Also note many are discussing "emotional" reasons to have children not economic.

>>514960024
lol. might be time to lurk for 10 years before posting.

>>514960156
so between you you guys are making maybe $750K or something, and you can't manage to keep your kids out of daycare? i cant believe its not trolling.

>>514960198
right, and thats the natural zoomer alternative to not plying your kids with ever piece of shit under the sun. obviously, dirt poor is the only other option. grow up.

>>514954923
You need:
>to keep your modern wife happy (money)
>if your wife works which is almost a necessity you need daycare (costs as much as a second mortgage)
>all sorts of newborn shit
>likely a new car
>AT LEAST a 2 bedroom house
I can't afford a kid. Sorry. It's true.

>>514960274
>Throughout most (like 99.9%) of human history there was an economic "incentive" to have children.
not for the first 8-10 years. then you might start getting some useful help out of them.

>>514960292
>le oldfag ace up the sleeve trick
No, I've been here a lot longer than that. You mocked me in my time of pain, that's not fair. And now this thread is full of circlejerking and autists accusing guys of trying to convince people not to have kids. See what I mean? The discourse on here about this is a total joke. It achieves nothing.

I love my dogs, but they are my property, not my children. That said, my dogs are more valuable to me than every brownoid on earth. I will probably never have kids, but I will have companionship.

>>514960292
What would we keep our kid out of daycare? Do you even have kids?

>>514958911
>was born in the mid 80s
So your life was easy as fuck compared to now.
You are retarded. Wow why dont poeple want to be one sallary away from eviction.
Perfect conditions to raise a kid. Your boss gets mad and you are on the street.
Having a house with no job is better for having kids than this.
At least you are safe and you can feed the kid vegetables from garden or something.

>>514960292
zoomers can't even afford a house and you're asking them to have kids.

>>514954721 (OP)
Yet, somehow broke welfare niggers can afford multiple kids

>>514954721 (OP)
If you're male, you will spend exactly nothing on your pet if it gets sick.

>>514960371
Yes, they might maybe, eventually, one would hope, maybe, be an additional person to perform labor that is now automated.

>>514954923
Time is more expensive than anything. Having a kid will take away my time.

>>514960348
>>all sorts of newborn shit
you really dont need a lot anon. its not nearly so demanding in terms of equipment as you think. everyone thinks its a big thing before they have a kid or two and see for themselves.
>>likely a new car
why? unless you have a 2 seat sportscar whatever you have will be fine.
>AT LEAST a 2 bedroom house
nice but not necessary at all, at least in the beginning for a couple kids close in age - as in, you have one baby, then another one within a year or 18 months. they are perfectly happy sleeping with momma and just playing on the floor all day between naps. then you get some pack and plays for their naps and breaks etc. putting a towel/blanket over a pack and play and teaching them to be quiet for a bit gives them their own rooms. they love it, because they know you aren't far away even though they cant see you.

>>514960020
>>514960274
There is still an economic incentive to helping your kid, but xoomers don't understand this (hurr you will take care of me in old age anyway so why should I invest in you now!) and zillennials don't get it (it's too expensive so I got a heckin catterino and a doggo friend for him) so most of them will eat shit.

For me, I will also eat shit, but it's worse because I know I don't have to.

>>514960496
I don't know how getting a mortgage counts as owning. You will (kind of) own it in 20 or 30 years.

>>514954721 (OP)
I took my cat into the vet the other day and they kept referring to him as my baby. I'm not exaggerating. They never said "We're going to take him back for tests," or anything like that, they just kept saying things like "We're going to take your baby to the back for tests." It was an incredibly disturbing experience. There's something very wrong with the whole pet-ownership culture in America.

>>514957550
Mexicanon, look at the flags. These are clearly Canadian jeets, so they’re absolutely feeding their children like rats, and probably with rats.

>>514960292
Say your piece and leave it be dude.
These people should not be convinced to breed. Either they're psyop'd which proves they're smooth brained or they're retarded anti-natalists who should remain a genetic dead end.

I always push back against someone who claims they don't want kids. I give them a metaphorical slap of cold water to try and wake them from the psyop, but if they don't change their mind, I will not try and convince them otherwise.
Not my job or role to help genetic dead ends reproduce.

>>514960651
>I took my cat into the vet the other day
Why? Are you a woman?

>>514960691
It had liver disease and was losing muscle mass. I'm just a human being, you disgusting nigger.

>>514960649
Irrelevant. It's an asset.

>>514960661
I don't think jeets even reproduce in the way humans do.
they have a broodmother, or grow directly out of filth.

>>514954721 (OP)
The whole MUH AFFORD shit is a huge cope. People need to GTFO of high cost cities, you failed to compete and don't belong there. There so much affordable shit in the """"boring""" (((flyover))) parts of the country

>>514960125
Aw someone got called out and is having a melty lmao. Here's a tip; go back to your own country, and perhaps you'll have better luck getting there women rather than squatting here and fruitlessly hitting on ours.

>>514960408
>You mocked me in my time of pain,
i fucking didnt anon. stop with that shit. just a joke, as with most things on here. bants, you know.

>>514960470
daycare is a zoo. very bad.

>>514960473
what in the hell are you talking about? i only just managed to buy a house after years of living with family and then in an RV. get fired has always been a thing anon, believe it or not. how easily you get fired depends on how well you do what you do and how easily replaced you are. always has.
>Having a house with no job is better for having kids than this.
At least you are safe and you can feed the kid vegetables from garden or something.
yeah, and i just got there a couple years ago. takes time to achieve. thats what im saying - dont wait until you get all that to start having kids. have them before and aim to get there as they grow up.

>>514960496
rent. do whatever. live in a trailer. doesn't matter to babies really, so long as mom is there.

>>514954721 (OP)
People suck. I hate them and the last thing I want is to make another one. There's your honest answer.

>>514960588
from what? also - mom spends most the time. you are too busy working.

>>514960686
true enough. just cant stand the whole 'wah its too expensive' meme.

>>514960775
most people live in cities.

>>514960843
Do you have kids? Yes or no.

>>514960843
>rent. do whatever. live in a trailer.
So basically live in poverty and barely scrap by paycheck to paycheck. The extra expenses you have now in this scenario ensure you will never get a proper home to raise children in. No shit most people don't want to do that. Are you delusional?

>>514960625
>There is still an economic incentive to helping your kid, but xoomers don't understand this
No.
People determine value. This is pretty much the crux of the argument: whether people determine value for themselves or can some egotistical retard potentially on the other side of the planet do it for them. Some people determine they shouldn't have kids for whatever reasonable or unreasonable reasons and then there are certain retards trying to say they should have kids anyway....

>>514960947
thats pretty much my view. these people who are like
>you must reproduce at all costs
are just like jeets and niggers. meanwhile, Great White sharks don't reproduce in captivity.
plus you'd have to deal with women all the time. even after you fuck them.

>>514960823
The only one having a melty here is you, retard. You read something into my post that wasn't there, again, whites and people globally are not having kids on their own, I don't need to do anything to convince anyone to not have kids.
You're lashing out because you have no power and you know it, so you'll blame random people like me. I'm also not a jeet, you impotent little tradcuck.

>>514960945
yes, ive said this a couple times itt. we live very rural. had to otherwise would never have afforded a house.

>>514960947
if you have to for a while then sure, why not. dont run up debt if you can possibly avoid it but sure, living low for a while is no bad thing. but you dont aim to stay like that obviously. if thats as far as you can plan into the future then maybe work on that a bit.

>>514957929
>Kids require a sedan or suv with cars seats,
Nigga, almost every car in the last 20 years has been this, hell it's a challenge to find 2 door car these days. What are you driving? A shit box fox body mustang or something?

>>514960496
Niggers have kids just fine.
Having kids means govt assistance is easier to obtain.
If you actually want kids, you can get a lot of assistance.
Whites are so fucking stupid.
The govt subsidizes having babies, but whites think it's wrong or something to take advantage of the programs and incentives the govt offers to encourage having kids. It literally gives you tax breaks and you can easily obtain food and other assistance. And most insurance covers pediatricians and natal and post natal care between 80-100%.

It is fucking insane to imagine having kids is difficult.
The first year you miss out on sleep.the second to third year you're chasing a little one around, which is tiring sure.
But after that, they can speak your language and you can negotiate and explain stuff to them.
And like if you really don't want to spend your life raising kids and want to be able to do all the stupid shit millennials think are so important, having just 1 kid is an option as well.

It's just such an obvious psyop. Which is why I don't care if people don't want kids.
Let them be a dead end.

>>514961106
The way to get whites into having kids is to make them agricultural peasants. I don't want that.

>>514961067
If you are broke and unemployable/doing gigwork to survive you shouldn't have kids but we're usually talking about Johnny, 38 and his gf Tammy, 28 and how they don't want kids because "tis too expensive m'lads" while they both work full time at The Office and each make at least 25 an hour in a Texan suburb of dallas or some shit. For people like this there is a real fear that having a kid will unbalance the careful ouija of their lives.

>>514960348
>AT LEAST a 2 bedroom house
Why a house? An apartment is suffice. You want a big yard? Go to the park nigga.

>>514960775
Nigger, I live in the country on property my family has owned for decades. The city expanded to ME and raised MY living costs astronomically. Why the fuck should I uproot my life just to possibly maybe find a place cheap enough to impregnate a woman until the city once again creeps toward us and the cycle has to begin again? You’re a fucking retard.

>>514961111
How can you be out of touch can you be? In this dogshit economy where upward mobility is being crushed and younger people have no viable career paths, of course they're not going to have kids. Some guy that literally cannot afford to move out of his parent's is not going to pump out kids unless he's retarded. You can't just say "just rent bro". That's idiotic. That's not even getting to how extremely hard it is to find a woman that's not dogshit and won't divorce you in a few years.

>>514957518
$6.000/year for dogfood
one in three report pet related debt
americans are the best good goy consoomers in the world, its like they were grown in a lab to consooom

>>514961218
Niggers are also below replacement btw. Again Quality > quantity. Do you want to have nigger quality kids or do you want a proper environment to raise them in?

>>514954721 (OP)
Stop door dashing avocado toast and you can afford children I promise you

>>514961358
> If you are broke and unemployable/doing gigwork to survive you shouldn't have kids but we're usually talking about Johnny, 38 and his gf Tammy, 28 and how they don't want kids because "tis too expensive m'lads" while they both work full time at The Office and each make at least 25 an hour in a Texan suburb of dallas or some shit. For people like this there is a real fear that having a kid will unbalance the careful ouija of their lives.

Pic related.

>>514961430
Sounds like retard cope. You already have properties handed down from families, but you can't make ends meet? Shut the fuck up, your problems are babby shit

>>514960927
Most people are nonsentient losers, I wouldn't put much stock in what "most people" do

>>514961620
Anons usually have yet to solve the gf problem in a way that doesn't involve dating bottom of the barrel whores.

>>514961650
there's just a question of relevance.
your experience and way of life are not relevant to most people, sentience or not.
I'd say the same thing if you lived in a cave underground. good for you but that doesn't help most people.

>>514961474
>upward mobility is being crushed and younger people have no viable career paths
you dont need some faggy 'career path'. you just a decent paying job. do you need some kind of qualification or a license to get that job? save for it, and make it happen
>Some guy that literally cannot afford to move out of his parent's is not going to pump out kids unless he's retarded.
you're wrong. i know people all around the world have done exactly that in their early twenties and the parents are happy to have the grand kids around, and it was especially good because my friend worked away for months at a time. 10 years on they could get their own place. ive seen how it works, lived with these people for a time, so it doesn't scare me.
>not even getting to how extremely hard it is to find a woman that's not dogshit and won't divorce you in a few years.
thats something i appreciate anon. comes down to who you are with and how well you can get to know them. a lot of people dont really talk about serious stuff before hopping into bed with each other, maybe being 'together' for a year or two and then....whatever - if they even bother getting married (yes, it makes a difference).

>>514961650
You’re the dumbest nigger alive, have never owned property and have never had kids. Your opinions are valueless lmao.

>>514961925
>you dont need some faggy 'career path'. you just a decent paying job
You need a career path to get a decent paying job most of the time. These exist less and less these days.
>i know people all around the world
We're talking about the first world here. For most households that consist of a parent and child, the child adding a spouse + their own kids would be a nonstarter.
>10 years on they could get their own place.
Zero guarantee that implies you'll just magically improve your earning potential enough to outpace the market (increasingly less likely every year).

>>514954721 (OP)
I pay 50€/month for health insurance for my dog and another 50€ for food. He sleeps in my bedroom on a 30€ bed. That's all the dog will ever cost me. How is that at all comparable to the costs of having a child, you retarded Portuguese cunt.

>>514961904
I guess I talk more matter of fact. Idgaf if people tend/want to live in cities, they lack self awareness or pattern recognition to understand what they're getting into. Forsaking your birthright to procreate and have a family in order to live like a pleb under metro aristocrats (but hey! we got sports teams and nice restaurants) is some dumbass shit that the Jews WANT westerners to do. Even if you don't want a tradwife and kids for yourself or other reasons, the mere fact that your enemies are manipulating society in order for you to give up should be all the reasoning you need out of pure spite

Also, niggers and shitskins flock to cities

>>514962129
I own property and have two sons with a third on the way. My opinions are just common sense

>>514961111
You had to move somewhere rural to buy a house. We less fundamentally different lives. I’m sorry if your daycare in Thunder Bay or wherever you live sucks, but that isn’t the case where I live.

>>514962387
>We're talking about the first world here.
but the point is that having a kid or two while living at home in your folks house is not impossible. its far from impossible and its a shame we tend to think its such a bad thing in the west. where did that idea come from i wonder?
>Zero guarantee
thats life. it usually comes down to this point in these threads. anons want certainty and because thats hard to get, they'd rather not bother in the first place.

>>514960612
>>514961421
Fine. Even without the house it's at least 20k the first year alone just for daycare and misc expenses.

Don't be fucking naive. It's expensive as shit.

>>514962880
all daycare is crap anon, and all schools are full of government curriculum faggotry and time wasting. you want other people raising your kids or something?

>I wonder why young people don't have kids

we should hunt boomers like animals

>>514954721 (OP)
>drop hundreds, if not thousand
The dogs you see outside are free you can just take them, i dont even need to buy food, my pupper just eats rabbits and birds and other random critters

>>514961900
Gottem. So many adult "males" simply don't piece together that non-virgin women are incompatible as true partners. They don't submit. It's impossible for them to do so, because they've already submitted partially to others in the past and forever

>>514962966
>but the point is that having a kid or two while living at home in your folks house is not impossible.
Possible? Sure. Good idea? Depends on a lot of things but probably no, not long term. Even in this hypothetical you were talking about eventually moving out. People need their own space and if your parent's house is just a modest small house, that's very claustrophobic. People in North America just don't live like that.
>thats life. it usually comes down to this point in these threads. anons want certainty and because thats hard to get, they'd rather not bother in the first place.
You can't just expect people to make very costly financial decisions for vague emotional reasons. If someone doesn't have a viable career or solid earning potential, they aren't not going to have kids unless they are foolish. The dude working as an uber eats driver that barely makes ends meet has no expectation that he'll be making bank in 5-10 years unless he's got some kind of plan under his sleeve. It's as simple as that and that describes a fuckload of young people. I don't know why you have trouble accepting that.

>>514962748
our people built these cities. why would I surrender and run away? I could see doing it to protect a wife and kids, but I'm not going to move out into the woods and hope I find a tradwife out in the wilderness somewhere. seems unlikely.

>>514961925
Fuck off jeet.
Not even medieval pesants had to work this hard for a room.

when i pay my rent, bills, food, car stuff im left with 200€ monthly

explain to me how the fuck can i support a child?

>>514963204
based forest pupper

>>514961218
>Just be a nigger so you can watch your kids die in front of you to a nigger horde and then go on tv to apologize to blacks in general
God you are so fucking cringe

>>514963071
Humans have been gifted the determinism to get amazing things done. Taming wilderness, conquering nations, traversing oceans, etc. Were living in a generation of males who unironically bitch
>"wahh, how can I afford both my screens and hobbies with KIDS now as well??"
That wage graph doesn't stop Mexicans or Indians or Muslims from coming to the West and shitting out kids and making their own mini-states. The cope from "MUH EARNINGS GAP" is just an excuse from losers who aren't also admitting theyre desperate for Jewish distractions and tricks

>>514962802
>t-trust me bro
Yeah ok, faggot.

>>514963723
>Mexicans or Indians or Muslims from coming to the West and shitting out kids
all below replacement btw

>>514963016
Which is why the wife shouldn't be working, instead she will be at home with the kids and avoiding any daycare bill

>>514963381
>People in North America just don't live like that.
which is why the white people who actually belong here are getting replaced - to many of them are not willing to do whats necessary. they are soft and lack the will to survive, sitting down and saying 'its too hard so ill just do nothing'. thats not the right spirit at all.
>they aren't not going to have kids unless they are foolish
or unless they can't plan ahead and work towards goals. Or, they wait, like Goldilocks, untill everything is just right before starting a family, if they ever do, by which time they are a pair of 40 somethings unwilling to sacrifice their precious careers.
>I don't know why you have trouble accepting that.
of course i accept it. thats why i keep mentioning the idea of having a plan to create and support a family as early as you can instead of wasting your years screwing around with worthless nonsense.

>>514960526
Because the government supports niggers. They want you dead. Unless you are also brown, and if so go ahead and have a bunch of kids. They’ll pay you to replace all the white people

>>514954721 (OP)
The only real expense is paying for a 2br apt/house ?

And then you gotta pay for them to do sports. Thats really it

>>514963516
ok anon, i guess its just too hard. you shouldn't bother. better if you dont bother. its the worlds fault after all, not yours.

>>514954721 (OP)
I want kids I just don't want to raise them. Been cumming in as many whores as I can hoping at least one gets knocked up.

>>514954721 (OP)
>hundreds, if not thousands
Wow, it's almost like thousands of dollars is still cheaper than a child

>>514963875
>which is why the white people who actually belong here are getting replaced
It's solely due to immigration and no other reason. All our governments have to do is close the border.
>or unless they can't plan ahead and work towards goals
There are increasingly no careers and no entry level jobs while everything keeps getting more and more expensive. People know that they can't "make it" so they're not going to make their own situation worse. And you can't reasonably expect them to.

>>514954923
This, they just need to spend time with their father and mother

>>514955519
Thanks for taking out of my pocket for your bad decisions

>>514963743
Here's one of the daily texts from last week that my wife sends me while I wage to support them

>>514963998
thousands of dollars over what time period? every month i probably spend maybe an extra couple hundred on food for two kids aged 7-10 than i would if it was just me and my wife. some new socks every now and again (those always wear out). thats about it. a few times a year they usually need some new footwear, especially outdoor footwear, so i pick some up at a thrift store and they last another 6-12 months before either wrecking them or out growing them.

its not that hard guys.

>>514954721 (OP)
They simply can't afford kids*

*without making sacrifices to their self indulgent consumerist lifestyles.

>>514954923
I'm broke and even I have to keep myself from spoiling my kid with unnecessary toys, not because I can't afford them, but because I am not raising a brat. Kids are dirt cheap compared to what people get told.
Buy second hand shit. Inherit things from your family. Homeschool them. Live somewhere cheap and boring with no joggers. Easy shit. No excuses. Just make more good quality kiddos.

>>514954721 (OP)
Women vote for every bit of government spending presented to them. They do not make the connection that they will need to pay for it and their family will suffer as a result.

>>514964272
Home costs?

>>514964159
You're paying for him to spend time with HIS kids and you think HE made the bad decision?
lmao

>>514963743
Yea it’s cringe. Nobody with above a room temperature IQ wants to bring a white child into a world that wants it dead. They’ll convince your lady to kill it in the womb. They’ll feed it plastics that kill it outside the womb. They’ll drop actual metal into white people’s baby formula. And they educate every brown or black person that “revenge” is justified and they should be killing white kids in their class. Then you’ll be on the news apologizing to the nigger family with your dead kid in your arms. No thanks

>>514964085
>All our governments have to do is close the border.
and thats not happening.
>There are increasingly no careers and no entry level jobs while everything keeps getting more and more expensive
it really depends what you're meaning. there are still plenty of decent paying 'basic' jobs around if you're willing to do them. i consider anything with an after tax earning of >$50K USD a decent paying job. outside of the big city areas thats easily livable in canada.

>>514963058
My daycare has 15 kids, 5 staff, and it’s private. There is no government curriculum. After that my kid begins attending a private international school. What do you think the schools are like near you? You should less time giving advice and more time trying not to be poor so your kids have a shot at life.

>>514964347
Yea because now I can’t afford to have them. Must be nice to be black or brown

>>514954721 (OP)
>young people are poorer
>AAAH AH AH! Lets have fun at their own cost.
Go fuck yourself faggot! No wonder our country is fucking dead.

>>514960588
What you need to do?
Watch a stupid film?
A shitty football game?

>>514954721 (OP)
Kid will one day will work, while cats are forever NEETS.

>>514954721 (OP)
If your dog dies no one cares.
If your kid dies you go to prison.
It has NOTHING to do with money.
https://www.tipranks.com/news/weekend-updates/chewys-stock-surges-whats-driving-the-rally

>>514964252
>posts a random picture of some swarthy mutt child
Holy shit lmao

>>514964447
Sounds like you're the bad decision maker, not the guy getting your gibs to parent his kids. Last I checked, Whites can still get gibs in the US.

>>514964129
its really all they want and its absolutely essential. thats why i think daycare is some real nasty shit.

>>514964304
100% anon. you're gonna make it.

>>514964324
im talking about costs attributable to the kids alone. running costs occur if you live alone or married or have 10 kids.

>>514964357
retarded doomer cope which contains only one single statement: "Its too hard whiteman dont have kids"

>>514958176
Kek. I came here for this echelon of reality-based snark. I dont like kids, I do like my dog. Im gonna keep walking my dog and avoiding broads.

>>514964446
if you're happy farming your kids out all day then you go right ahead.

>>514960588
ah yes, not enough time for sodomy and debauchery

those darn kiddos

>>514954721 (OP)
You have children on this planet to lay perishing waste to the Enemy, and not for the damnation assembly line.

>>514964623
>>514964414
So for starters you’re leaving out monetary data that absolutely plays a factor in how people make decisions.
Secondly you’re a dumb son of a bitch who doesn’t realize that there’s vast numbers of people who take home not even half of 50k.

>>514964588
So is it a mutt or some random photo? Both? You already have two weird copes going on, as if you're exceedingly used to coping.

>>514965061
It’s a random photo of a mutt. I’d rather be childless than claim genetic sewage like that thing as my own lmao

>>514954721 (OP)
our governments would rather import niggers and subhumans from other countries to "pad the population numbers" instead of improving their own damn country so their own people will want to have kids.

"Uhh free health care is hard and id lose a lot of donor money. importing niggers is easy."
^the clowns we have yet to hang

>>514965147
>I’d rather be childless
LOL imagine typing this cope out, you failed at life and only want to see failure in others too

You got your wish btw. You and my son are on the same tier rn: bitchless, sexless males

>>514964252
You appear to be one of the many /pol/ gentlemen who race mix while complaining about whites disappearing.
>>514961548
Nobody here is doing that idiot.

>>514965346
>failed at life
Bold coming from a guy proudly parading a swarthoid mixed-up mutt as “muh son” lmao. You mean your wife’s son?

>>514965492
Why are you still a leaf? Do you have some sort of humiliation fetish? Wetbacks are making a life for themselves here with nothing but the clothes on their back what are you doing except crying?

>>514965911
I still have YEARS to have kids if I want. Where are yours? Do you guys really think these types of posts will fix the birthrates? It's not working, TRY SOMETHING ELSE.

>>514965492
My posts have nothing to do with race mixing, all of them were call to actions to exhibit determinism, breed, and a submit woman. People just want to get hung up on whatever cop out they can find because it's easier than confronting they're transhumanist scum who behave how the Jews designed them to be

>>514966000
>my posts have nothing to do with race mixing
>posts his grotesque mixoid offspring
Yeesh

>>514954721 (OP)
>make housing unobtainable
>hurr durr why no kids
probably because people don't want to have sex and raise children while still living at their parents home

>>514966000
Great trips but he looks non-white. I noticed that. I do find it hypocritical how tradcucks here will claim superiority and whine about whites disappearing but their kids aren't white. Is he white?

>>514964865
i must be dumb to be here arguing for white people to have kids.

>>514966111
then you're making yourself easy to control. accept the circumstances you can't control and carry on regardless, because if you've set your little heart on buying a home but can't then you've have willingly condemned your entire bloodline because some faggots manipulated the housing market.

boy, were you easy to get rid of.

>>514966147
>>514966106
Yeah he's white. Most importantly tho, he exists. After this thread, I can go back to my amazing life, whereas all you incels will be stuck here desperate to find solace in something you had no part in controlling or contributing

>>514964414
>there are still plenty of decent paying 'basic' jobs around if you're willing to do them
No there isn't. Consult this graph >>514963071. Note that it's 10 years out of date so the gap is even worse now especially after covid. The average zoomer has absolutely shit earnings with little to no potential for growth and you're telling them to have kids. Get it through your skull already, they're not that dumb. You said you were born in the mid-80s earlier. It was tougher for you than boomers sure, but for someone born in the late 90s-early 00s that is dramatically easier than what they have to do.

>>514966352
Calm down you idiot I just think it's important if you want to "save the white race" to not have mixed race brown mutt shitskin kids like a lot of white nationalists do.

>>514966279
I'm sorry that I am not a basketball american that can raise 10 kids in a crack den and that I actually have standards.
I'm sure never fixing problems and just telling people to grow up is gonna work wonderfully.

>>514966352
>he’s WHIIIIIITE
>kid is clearly a 56%er
Now who’s coping lmao

>>514954923
kids are genuinely super cheap lol. you can just buy used clothes and toys and books and furniture. fuck, almost all the furniture I have I grabbed off the street. just walk around your city and there’s free shit everywhere. also never buy kids technology, that shit fries their little brains even worse than it burns a hole in your wallet. kids don’t even eat very many calories a day so it’s a really marginal bump on the grocery bill

>>514966449
???
None of my posts were ever about saving the white race?? It you faggots who keep insisting it's about race for whatever reason. I sincerely only wanted to post about how excuses are for bitches, move out of cities if you need to, and BREED (because procreating is inherent to spiting the Jews and to being a man)

Millenials imbibed this mentality so hard.
Gen X tended to have maybe one or two kids.
Look, kids aren't that expensive and most of the costs overlap with taking care of yourself anyway. The $1M lie is that it costs a huge amount to have and care for children.
The truth is you need to accept that boomers had the absolute best possible conditions and they fucking squandered everything. Now you have a choice to be an antinatalist or tap into what your ancestors were capable of doing under much harsher conditions.
You'll never be able to provide what your parents did materially, but you can still be a better parent than them.

>>514960348
>at least 2 bedrooms
lol
bedroom for the parents and newborn, living room for the toddlers+. you can easily fit 3 kids to a room

>>514966385
>but for someone born in the late 90s-early 00s that is dramatically easier than what they have to do.
how so exactly? i already said i only just managed to get the house we'd been thinking for many years.

>>514966490
thast right anon, your standards are so high that you simply just cant have kids. no way. impossible. anything less than your ideal comfy ideal just will not do!

my God, think of how our ancestors would think of this kind of stuff. pitiable.

how about one or two raised in a loving home that might only be composed of a couple rooms for 5 to 10 years before you can afford to upgrade? or is that the same as 10 nigs in a crack den in your view?

>>514966655
They aren't excuses but reasons, this entire thread has been one pathetic circlejerk from tradcucks who want to force guys into doing something they aren't capable of doing.

>>514966591
again, 100% anon. you will make it too. thrift stores and yard sales are your friend. screens are not. screens bad. no screens for kids.

>>514966745
If you're using the same copes and excuses as anti-natalists, then you didn't reason your way to them.

>>514966744
>how so exactly?
Because you were able to get into the job market at an earlier time giving you many extra years of experience and earnings. Today, the entry level job market is an absolute wasteland.

>how about one or two raised in a loving home that might only be composed of a couple rooms for 5 to 10 years before you can afford to upgrade
They WON'T be able to afford to upgrade. what don't you understand?

>>514958942
>daycare
insane scam
just live near your parents and they’ll do it for free… unless they’re too old to. which is why everyone should have kids in their 20s instead of the late 30s, so they can properly fulfill grandparenting duties and have a relationship with their grandchildren

>>514954721 (OP)
pets are expensive too. Have you ever taken a pet to a veterinary? Is even more expensive than going to a hospital.

>>514954923
lol raising Arizona was 100x smarter than this post… point of that film being you won’t even be able to afford the fucking diapers. You’ll be robbing a convenient store… for diapers.

Got any idea how many babies go through? Got any idea how much they cost?

>>514966745
for me its been about trying to dispel the lie that having kids is expensive. dont get me wrong though - having kids isn't all that easy. but its sure not expensive unless you choose to make it so.

its funny really because a lot of people complain about boomers etc all the time, but they are people who chose to spend so much on toys and screens and gadgets galore for their kids instead of spending time with them.....and yet, here they are, arguing that you must be a poverty stricken nigger if you dont do exactly the same! lol

>>514954721 (OP)
ironically children are barely more expensive than pets, but dont tell perpetual adolescents afraid of responsibility and time about that.

Saying you can't afford kids is a cope. Having kids would just require personal sacrifice which people today are not willing to do.
>what do you mean I'd have to give up video games? I can't be a father!
>What you mean I don't get to go out every night with my girlfriends? I can't be a mother!

>>514966877
Then don't upgrade and just be good parents?
Your perspectice presupposes that children need all the material that your boomer parents had to succeed. This is simply not true.

>>514954721 (OP)
Pets are practically as expensive as kids at this point i guess you have to pay more attention to a baby though

>>514966828
It's not copes or excuses, this entire thread is tradcucks talking about ancestors and being le traditional and how some system is trying to stop you from breeding. Things we've all seen on here thousands of times before.
The birthrates going down globally are for many reasons, one of them being, honestly, that people are choosing not to have kids. There is nothing that can be done about that. The circlejerking here and how you need to honor your ancestors or whatever doesn't inspire people.

>>514966994
>just live like rats squeezed together and struggle paycheck to paycheck
great environment to raise a kind in yup. Nobody said you had to give them all the material comforts in the world, but people expect some reasonable baseline.

>>514966744
Yeah enough space for a large bed, a crib and a separate room for the kid is high standards.
Shut the fuck up, you know nothing. If you want to raise future sociopaths and school shooters yourself then go right ahead, save the white race by turning your flat into a logistical traffic jam or something.

>>514954721 (OP)
>Grow up being indoctrinated on a daily basis on the dangers of overpopulation: muh hockeystick, muh world under water in 2012
>"WTF why isn't this generation having kids???????? Scientists are baffled"

>>514966877
>Because you were able to get into the job market at an earlier time giving you many extra years of experience and earnings. Today, the entry level job market is an absolute wasteland.
you're assuming that i have some kind of career into which i needed to enter many years ago. thats far from the truth. im absolutely up against all the younger guys AND all the immigrants whenever i look for work because i didn't even get into my line of work until 6 years ago.

>>514966945
yeah, had a couple babies around the house. disposables can be had cheap sometime and they are handy for some occasions, but the washables will save you a lot of money.

>>514966516
>>514966745
>force guys into doing something they aren't capable of doing.
You say force because you're defensive about it (like a bitch). In reality, it's encouragement and I want the best my fellow man (however, bitch males are not men). Life is sooooooo easy, but most people need an unironic reality check, esp on 4chan, where it's a psyop designed to further ingrained you being the childless transhumanist scum I've been strawmanning

Also the circle jerk online is only between childless zogged numales Don't cope otherwise. It's literally a safe space online for weak males

>>514967123
I don't know what your personal situation is exactly. Maybe you got lucky or something but it doesn't matter. We're talking averages. Early millennials got rug pulled a lot, but they were able to get into the job market and pave a solid career for the most part. Zoomers can't even do that. It was was rigged before they even started.

>>514958606
>>514958310
100%. I'm sure it gets more expensive over time but I'm amazed how little taking care of a 2.5 year old costs from what I read about how expensive kids are for years

>>514967050
>choosing not to
Very seldom, if you actually poll people without children and offered them the material wealth to make happen, the vast majority would.
https://www.securian.com/about-us/newsroom/news-releases/securian-survey-economic-conditions-influence-child-bearing-decisions.html
It's an economic stifling in the west, those who self-select out of the gene pool, breaking a chain of succession that's of years old because times are going to be a little tougher don't deserve respect.

>>514967093
It is a great environment, actually. Kid grows up with a close knit family around him and learns at an early age to appreciate what he has instead of being entitled, indolent, and lazy. Kids who grow up without having everything handed to them tend to be more self-motivated and ambitious. They won't have the option of just living off their parents their whole life and being a NEET.

>>514966877
>They WON'T be able to afford to upgrade. what don't you understand?
why not? thats a lot of time to advance in your workplace is possible or train for a better job. the market may change. you might move to a different area where its cheaper.

the main thing is that you have the kids already. you've not lost those years worrying.

and yeah, anon >>514966994 isnt wrong at all. >>514967093
no. kids expect what you train them to expect and all they really care about is that you're there for them and care. that matters more than how fancy your house is or whats in it.

>>514964465
>What you need to do?
Anything but raise babies. I'm not a woman.

>>514967302
>Make more wageslaves for shekelstein
Are you even trying? What the fuck

>>514964777
You're latinx. Mexicans not having kids anymore is a good thing.

>>514967093
houses are way bigger now than they used to be
everyone thinks they need to live like they’re rich, but they don’t and can’t

>>514967406
If that's what you want to raise your kids to do, that's on you.

>>514967268
>don't deserve respect
You say this as if you have sway or people care about what you think. If the tradcucks here had any power, we wouldn't be in this situation.
>>514967128
There we go again, it's some psy-op, and you're so above it with your memes and tradcuck ideals and brown kid! Good for you.
>>514966986
And this is another example of the tradcuck circlejerking.
>hurr durr, le system makes people not have kids
>I am a tradcuck on /pol/ who sees the truth, I am not like that
This arrogance won't restore the birthrates.

>>514967112
i wonder what you would have thought if you'd come to visit us when we were living in our RV. everyone i know love it. said it was so comfy and cozy, because it was. even had a little woodstove for the winter. i bet you would have wished it was yours....it looked a lot like some of the comfy pepe cabin pics that get posted here.

>>514967260
oh for sure. babies really dont need much. mommas tit is the main thing

Is it time to have tax payer subsidized day care? This is the REAL expense of having kids. I know people that pay like 2-3 k a month for daycare. Some people go part time or don't work at all because it's cheaper to work less than to pay those extra hours to day care. Gen Xers and boomers were to stupid with their money so they have to keep working and can't help with the kids.

More people would work and more people would have kids if day care was affordable. Or give tax breaks to companeis that offer on site day care?

>>514967302
This is cope. You can give free stuff to your kid. The kid will be well adjusted as long as you don't abuse it.

>>514967450
Cope and seethe. It's not more expensive to raise a child than it is to have a pet. The only reason you don't want to is you are terrified of real responsibility and making personal sacrifices. You're a moral coward.

>>514954721 (OP)
Who cares? Children and women are fucking terrible.

>>514967093
Children are extremely resilient.
Economic factors are not going to play a huge roll unless the ecology is unstable ie abusive, moving constantly, infighting in the family, divorce, etc
You don't need gobs of wealth just a healthy home environment, everyone will be poor in the future and that's not an excuse to give up.
A lot of the data you see connecting wealth to children's success should be viewed as a proxy for the IQ of the parents, their race, their drug habits, etc
It's possible to be poor and not be a piece shit, it's becoming more common as the "great reset" plays out softly and wealth is concentrated among the elite.

>>514967255
then they gotta abandon the idea of some kind of fixed career path and look for other ways to make decent money if thats not working.

>>514967443
this. look at all those pics of bongland terrace houses. a lot of people raised big families in those. all my grandparents grew up in small houses that got ice on the windows in winter and several kids shared a bed. thats how it was.

>>514967536
Again WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS IS GOING TO ACHIEVE? This isn't going to change anyone's mind, we've had thousands of threads like this with all this tradcuck circlejerking and the same tired memes and talking points.
I respectfully suggest to you that if you want to make a difference here you find another route beyond what you are doing right now.

>>514954721 (OP)
Bitch my three cats cost me less than 100 buckaroos per month. It’s not even comparable to having a single child.

>>514967724
I can't have pets I'm allergic.

>>514967643
It's autism. Some people think the race war is purely about who creates more babies.

>>514955375
Shut up faggot

>>514967780
You can have 3 pet niggers in your crib. They don't have fur.

>>514954721 (OP)
I have two kids. Not really that expensive. $150 for a full kids soccer season. Food adds maybe 5-10% because we cook at home and I take lunch to work. Medical shit with insurance is like maybe a couple hundred a year, so $20 a month (once it was $1,200 but it was an emergency). Home school so you don't have to have daycare because my wife isn't a degen single mother whore.

>>514967315
>thats a lot of time to advance in your workplace is possible or train for a better job
There is no more advancement. Training for a better job means switching career paths which is several years of time and possible going back to school for more education. The market is poised to changed for the worse. Moving to a cheaper area means no jobs most of the time.

>the main thing is that you have the kids already
Yes and that means earnings that could have gone towards savings now goes towards additional expenses. This means you're more likely to live paycheck to paycheck.

>>514967608
>look for other ways to make decent money if thats not working.
"just hustle" bro is not real advice

>>514967804
not purely my any means. but its part of it. thats why the 'kids are too expensive' meme exists, just like its the reason why 'save the planet - dont have kids' meme exists too.

>>514967643
Your mind will never be changed, but there are others out there right now with a girlfriend or wife who are concerned about how they could possibly be good parents without the assets that their boomer parents had.
It's scary, but reading the literature out there should help ease their minds that a parent's measure isn't their bank account or 401k.
Having a stable home environment is the most important part of raising children. Protect them, guide them, teach them, and they'll succeed.
People who believe in nothing but the material will find themselves with many possessions, but no family. They can go fuck themselves.

>>514967780
Genetic failures get the rope.

>>514954721 (OP)
I cannot afford a pet

>>514967592
Having your own place is not supposed to be "gobs of wealth". It's a simple baseline that most people had.

>>514954923
Rather what they need to do to not be divorced after they have the kid(s)

>>514967945
I never said, that a parents value is how much money they have. That is ridiculous. But money does matter in this world and it matters exponentially when raising a kid. There are many reasons why people can't or won't have kids.
Also, it's hilarious how multiple here admitted that closing the borders would be a massive step towards fixing this problem, but even Trump won't do that. The idea that the line must always go up has infected the minds of tradcucks.

>>514967886
>There is no more advancement. Training for a better job means switching career paths which is several years of time and possible going back to school for more education. The market is poised to changed for the worse. Moving to a cheaper area means no jobs most of the time.
you do what you have to do. i was working agriculture for just above min wage for years before saving up to get qualified for a better paying job, and that launched us towards getting the house. if a dummy like me can manage it everyone on here can.
>This means you're more likely to live paycheck to paycheck.
if you're living check to check then having kids wont make any difference. thats why i and others have been saying this whole time because, contrary to the meme, kids are not expensive.
>"just hustle" bro is not real advice
it kind of is. you can either keep banging your head against what you think should be working or you can decide its not and maybe its time to try another approach to things.

>>514954923
In America you could spend 10k on a dog and it would still be less than the medical bills for a pregnancy and giving birth.

>>514968078
>it's a simply baseline
Well then 70% of the new generations fails that bar, guess you don't get to have a family woopsie.
This is the kind of mentality I'm talking about, the conditions for owning a home now are prohibitively expensive and you can't tie your future to owning this asset that your parents were able to buy on a blue collar full time job.
The real baseline is have a place to raise children and making sure you're meeting the challenges as they arrive, internally and externally, to create a stable environment for them.
Your kids not going to care if you're paying a mortage or rent as long as you're not moving all the time.

>>514961106
>>514967643
You are remarkably insistent on getting us to stop posting. You dont offer alternatives, and youre absolutely seething as you beg for us to stop- whatever could be the reasons for this? Dont hide behind some excuse like 'spamming the catalog' or something because we both know there is far worse and more unproductive spam than 'be fruitful and multiply'. So why are you so upset? What harm comes to you when we convince others to have children?

>>514968223
Insurance covered everything except $900. What are you doing in life bro?

>>514968125
thats certainly a part of it no doubt. but if you're marrying and having kids with someone who you know can't tolerate hardship in terms of work load with the kids, not much money, less than ideal living arrangements etc, then thats kind of a problem. you have to talk about this with your prospective wife and mother of your children. get her on board with the way things are going to be.

>>514968132
if you can feed, clothe and house your kids then thats absolutely enough for many years after they are born, and most of it for the rest of the time.

>>514968078
and now its not. you can either accept that (if its even true) or you can never have kids. its like how kids can either stand there stamping their feet and screaming ' i want i want' all day but its not going to get them anything

>>514968162
>i was working agriculture for just above min wage for years
zoomers can't even do that here. That's all taken by illegals.
>if you're living check to check then having kids wont make any difference
People don't want to raise kids paycheck to paycheck. Being one emergency away from financial ruin isn't great for the kids.

>>514968223
you could if you didn't plan ahead and make sure your wife is covered somehow, either through your work or take out a policy for that time that covers it.

>>514967268
>we asked people in a survey
HAHAHAHA
people do not behave the way that they say they would in surveys. If you ask people
>would you be more likely to have a child if we gave you $N in support
>would you be more likely to have a child if we have you free daycare
>would you be more likely to have a child if we give you a tax credit
most will say yes. But when these policies are implemented it has ZERO effect. Zero.
You know what does have an effect? Social incentives. In Georgia (the country) the widely-respected Orthodox Patriarch Ilia II called for more births and personally would begin baptizing babies en masse. This created a measurable bump in the birthrates.

Anyone saying that kids aren't expensive, are talking from the point of view of having a fucking toddler.
Yeah a kid that's under 10 isn't necessarily too expensive. You can dress up as a pirate and play with it to keep the kid busy. But just wait until it starts hitting it's early teens and the needs start skyrocketing.
You'll basically be paying for a roommate's living expenses and hobbies at that point.
Then there's the fact that even in the current modern economy you're fucked as a young person.
Just wait until these Western scam economies shit the bed completely and you lose your job, end up long term unemployed and you kid has to live at home until 35 because they can't afford to move out.
And if you're one of those niggerbrains that wants to throw your kid out the moment law allows it, you should have never had a kid.
It's going to be an extremely shit deal bringing life into this world, unless you're at bare minimum a good sized home owner with zero debt and at least 6 figures in safe investments.

>>514968357
You can post all you want and I am not begging you to stop. I'm reminding you that you have no power and what has been said in this thread has been absolutely drilled into people by /pol/ for over 10 fucking years and yet the birthrate keeps lowering. Does that make sense to you?
This idea that you see past the propaganda and you are disseminating the truth to people is a joke. We've all seen this material before OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Instead of circlejerking with like minds, you should try to realize why the birthrate is low and maybe lobby your politicians to make a change.
>but voting doesn't change anything
I do agree, but trying something is better than what goes on here. Tradcucks thought Trump would be sympathetic to their ideas but that turned out to be a total flop. I don't think he cares about any of this stuff.

>>514967915
Jews can basically rule despite being a tiny part of the population. It's clearly not about raw numbers.

>>514954721 (OP)
they do it because there is no physical commitment to buying a puppy. no child bearing or birth required. but then they realize that after their dog is 15 years old and about to die, they could have spent that time raising a being that would continue living. they all wish their dogs could speak to them, they all wish their dogs would out live them... i've been there and didn't want a kid. people are programmed for that now. they are taught to be selfish and childish perpetually. they're told it's too expensive. they're told they need to be able to provide "the best life" for their kids and they think that means expensive brand name, luxury items, and doodads, but all you need to do is feed, them, love them, and teach them.

i was at odds with myself over this because of the same propaganda i was exposed to. i had already lept hurdle after hurdle of propaganda, this was the last one. i came to the realization while on LSD and looking at a magnolia tree. one of the oldest tree species on earth. a tree that existed before pollinators like bees and butterflies existed. i looked at it's seed pods falling to the ground. i thought about how that tree, is essentially the same tree that existed here over 100 million years ago, and how i am essentially the same person from over 100k years ago, the same entity that it evolved from, the some being that survived and procreated all this time. it would be insane to break that chain for purely selfish reasons, for my very temporary existence.

have some kids. have them early, have alot. hide your assets, cut your hours, take federal benefits, game the system, do whatever you have to do.

t. Proud father of a 1 year old

Here's one trick, don't let your monthly income, besides home/insurance be eaten up by leases or loans.
Vehicles are especially bad and fixing old vehicles is much cheaper than the value your new car loses upon being used. The insurance is also insane these days. Don't buy new vehicles unless you're in a financial position where making payments is no object and you're just doing it for your credit.

>>514954721 (OP)
>I find it funny how niggas under 35 cry constantly that having kids is expensive, but then drop hundreds, if not thousands, if necessary, on a vet visits, food, toys, accessories, etc, for their "pupper wholesome doggo" every year.
Yeah because a kid costs millions

>>514968338
>>514968462
Most people don't want to raise kids if they don't have a stable home and asset of their own. I'm sorry this bothers you, but yes this was a simple baseline that all of our parents and grandparents had that people aren't willing to just give up and accept.

>>514968584
If you ever left your house or talked with people irl you would see how much of /pol/s culture has bled into the mainstream. Im not expecting these posts to shift the entire populations birthrates, Im expecting them to convince white autistic shut-ins to stop being shut-ins and have families so we can have another generation of autists to keep up the fight. We all know that the only way to truly fix our countries is with a total NatSoc takeover. But until that time we work with what we've got.

>>514968493
>That's all taken by illegals.
ah thats not true. ive had the chance or working jobs like that in the US while traveling there. sure in some places they dominate but you can find work if you want it.
>from financial ruin isn't great for the kids.
very hard situation to be in these days anon. theres so much help available if you need it. i know for a fact that, even if you dont want to access the government stuff (and why not, you're going to be paying for it in taxes over time anyway) churches and other philanthropic groups offer plenty.
if people dont want to do that then they dont have to. they dont have to have kids if they dont want to. but you can. its all how you manage things.
work 2 jobs if you need to. ive done that too. its what guys are supposed to do to support their family. its what guys have done forever because funnily enough, family is important and most guys are willing to fight like hell for it

>>514968831
Our parents and grandparents were aberrations, most of the planet doesn't own their own home and they still breed. Most of our ancestors didnt and they bred.

>>514968831
They don't have choice is what I'm getting at.
There is no rosy horizon, nothing. Things are only going to get worse and these people, who would want to have children, are going to waste their lives waiting until it's not possible.

>>514968926
In North America, it was normal.

>>514968965
Then they won't have kids. Simple as that.

>>514967509
Why? There are already less jobs than job seekers thanks to retardicans and there obsession with poverty

>>514968649
hitler disagreed.

>>514968831
lots of people are spoiled and are willing to go childless because their pet wants are not currently or easily met. i get it. im just saying that if i'd thought that way id have no kids to put into the house i recently was able to buy after years of working towards it. im glad our kids were born when we had nowhere to live but my family home because it got us ahead and drove me to do better.

>>514968965
*and there's something evil about telling people to wait when deep down everyone knows there's not a financial savior coming.

>>514969001
>In North America, it was normal.
and things change, unfortunately in this case. i guess that means its a great reason to have no kids
>Then they won't have kids. Simple as that.
and thats sad and wrong for many reasons, which is all ive been saying.

>>514968880
Telling people to just hustle while being poor and struggling and hoping things will magically get better when everything is pointing to things getting worse is not an appealing proposition.

>>514968862
>If you ever left your house or talked with people irl you would see how much of /pol/s culture has bled into the mainstream
Then why are the birthrates so low? You failed, Same with the marriage rates. /pol/ isn't even as popular as it once was.
Again, if you want to convince people of something, you have to at least have good reasons for them to sign up. All you have is the same old memes and stale talking points that you circlejerk with other like minds on here.
If you were to stop being such a defensive faggot and understand what I'm saying, I'm trying to say that this needs to evolve if you want results. So far, you have no results.
>to convince white autistic shut-ins to stop being shut-ins and have families
This also failed because tradcucks have a tendency to worship women and that is not appealing to guys.

>>514969191
>and things change
And that's why nobody wants kids anymore.

>>514969104
City people are selfish and don't need free labour

>>514969211
We agree things will get worse but disagree on the prescription.
The American model of families/homes really is unique even among Europeans where 3 generations would frequently live in the same home.
If an ideal leads you to be a childless dead-end, then of what use was the ideal?
Stable ecologies for children exist outside of home ownership, just have a place period.

>>514969287
Nobody seems to realize that when you either beg people to have kids or you insult them for not having them, both show how messed up the current situation is. Nobody on here will admit that though.
Countries are basically begging people to reproduce. I can't ever find a time in human history when that was the case.

>>514969458
At some point it's okay to admit that real right wing ideals like family and tradition aren't your cup of tea.
Why are you here?
>forever

>>514969435
Being childless is not a big deal to people. If they can't afford to give their children the same or better upbringing that they got, why would they bother?

>>514969554
Real right wing ideals are free market capitalism and israel. You seem confused.

>>514969211
why do you have to start saying shit like 'magically', when ive said again and again that you have to look around and think and try different things to get a better job? when you're struggling is EXACTLY the time when you need to do that most of all!
>everything is pointing to things getting worse
more doomer crap if you ask me. if thats your outlook then just give up and be quiet. accept thy fate. only death awaits.
>>514969287
oh dear. things have always changed anon, sometimes much worse than anything we're dealing with at the moment. pretty much everyone in history could have said 'the world is so bad, why would i bring kids into it!!?!1' at some point. most people just carried on with life and did their best without being so silly.

>>514969554
You will seethe at this reply but I am not anti-family I just believe in proper family planning and the choices of individuals. Also I see how messed up things are.
>Why are you here, disrupting the tradcuck circlejerk?
I've been here for well over a decade, on and off. At least on here I can say my mind without being censored.

>>514969709
Absolutely not lmao
I get the joke, but seriously.

>>514969714
>just give up and be quiet
It's sad that you of all people would be yet another tradcuck in this thread saying this. You fail to understand cause and effect, you guys fail to understand that you cannot say "be quiet" to the reality that is low birthrates. The people you are arguing with are just expressing some reasons why they exist.

>>514954721 (OP)
People don't have kids because there are no fuckable women.

>>514969708
what if their upbringing was exceptionally good and reality no longer supports such extravagance? does that mean all other lives are terrible and should not happen? of course it doesnt.

>>514969435
>If an ideal leads you to be a childless dead-end, then of what use was the ideal?
great question.

>>514969714
Because it is magical thinking. We're not talking about your personal situation. We're talking averages. Wages have not kept up with inflation, housing, etc. The average person earns less and less while things get more expensive. This is a fact of life. Telling people to just hustle in this economy is not a plan.

>pretty much everyone in history could have said 'the world is so bad, why would i bring kids into it!!?!1' at some point
And they probably didn't in those rough times. Why would expect anything else.

>>514969717
We both see how messed up things are.
We both know they can't be fixed.
What's really different about our perspectives then is the solution.
I'm advising people to create the most stable home you can within these harsher conditions, which are still nothing like what our forebearers(excepts boomers, fuck them) faced.
Raising children is unironically not difficult or costly, except for the self-sacrifice that comes with it.

>>514969865
and im just expressing the only logical outcome of accepting the arguments being put forward. that i do not agree with, obviously. im saying that OK, if its all so impossible, and all so bad with only the promise of getting worse, and not owning your own home MUST mean you cant have kids etc etc, then just dont. dont try, dont 'hustle', dont have any hope for the future whatsoever apart from your own death, because clearly thats the answer once that position is accepted.

>>514969922
I don't consider "having your own home" to be extravagance.

>>514969988
its not magical thinking. its simply not giving up in despair. the slightest experience of what people with hard lives really do teaches this. if they give up, they die. you're advocating this and i really disagree with it.

>>514970152
Great, you'll never own one because the elite sought to use mass migration and inflation to suppress wages, to drive the cost of homes up, and to offshore most industries.
With rare exceptions, this is the hand we've been dealt. Persevere.

>>514970152
what if you're wrong? what if you are holding on to a currently unrealistic idea and that idea is ruining your life?

>>514970006
Instead of voting for right-wing parties and saying mission accomplished, how about people force them to close the borders and care for their own people?
>but that can't be done
You guys will say this and then call me the defeatist one.
>>514970094
Who do you think you are, that you can argue with fate and destiny? Men better than us all throughout the ages tried and failed.
It's not impossible per se, but people worry about not being able to feed their hypothetical kids. You can't blame them for that.
/pol/ screams at clouds meanwhile the clouds do their own thing. You can say people in the past had worse conditions to live under, yet they didn't have the social problems guys these days have to contend with. Cause and effect, if certain conditions led us to this point then only counter-conditions will turn things around.

>>514970232
Nobody said anything about giving up. But people that are in a bad financial situation cannot just operate as if that would change in the future with no basis. And telling people to have kids when they are already struggling is extra moronic.

>>514970313
>>514970382
My personal situation is fine. Again, I'm talking about averages.