Thread 514963817

Evil is best known through examples, and the production and consumption of crush videos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crush_fetish are about as clear an example of grotesque wickedness as one can find. These videos involve people stomping on little animals for the sexual pleasure of their degenerate viewers. The animals suffer horrifyingly, getting literally stomped to death. I suspect few will disagree when I say that purchasing crush videos is severely morally wrong.

Suppose we want to explain why purchasing crush videos is wrong. Here is my thesis: it is wrong because you shouldn’t cause animals extreme suffering for comparatively minor personal benefit. You shouldn’t beat a dog because you find it funny. You shouldn’t set a cat on fire for minor convenience. You shouldn’t burn live cats for biofuel.

The other explanation one might give is that it’s wrong to derive sexual pleasure in sadistic ways. Yet this, I think, cannot be the whole story. If a person burns a live cat to illuminate a cave or for biofuel (imagining that live cats were a marginally more efficient energy source than alternatives) they would be acting wrongly. Similarly, it would be wrong to set a cat on fire because it released a pleasing odor—even though presumably the enjoyment of the odor would be non-sadistic.

>>514963817 (OP)
Now, another explanation people sometimes give for why such an action is morally wrong is because of what it does to the person doing it, not to the animal. It makes us worse people—or so it is claimed—when we hurt animals. This explanation, once again, might be part of the story but isn’t a complete explanation. If there was a person whose character was not hardened by tormenting animals, it would still be wrong for them to torment animals. Indeed, even if there was a person who found animal torture soothing—for whom torturing animals helped them calm down and be nicer—we would still hold that they should not torture animals. And similar things go, of course, for burning a live cat for biofuel.

So the lesson we learn from the wrongness of purchasing crush videos, burning live cats for biofuel, and tormenting animals to produce a nice smell is that you shouldn’t cause animals very large amounts of suffering for trivial benefits. Doing so is deeply immoral. It’s not just a slight foible to be brushed off, but is instead unspeakably horrific. If one was doing these things, you wouldn’t just vaguely wag your finger disapprovingly, but instead demand they stop immediately and try desperately to talk them out of their wicked acts, if not report them to police.

I have bad news for you: if it is wrong to cause animals extreme suffering for comparatively trivial benefit, then you are probably doing something very immoral several times per day. If so, you should stop

>>514963924
Nearly all meat in the United States—and other developed countries—comes from factory farms. Factory farms are what you’d get if you allowed the Icebox killers to design a food system. They keep animals in tiny filthy, feces-ridden cages where they can’t turn around. They mutilate them in horrible ways, slaughter them painfully, transport them nightmarishly, and genetically engineer them so that they’re in constant pain. Every moment of a factory farmed animal’s life is hellish. These animals—being just babies at the time this occurs—are subject to suffering of a form few of us could even fathom. If anyone treated a dog or person the way factory farms treat ~80 billion animals annually, everyone would call the cruel treatment they inflicted torture. You can read more about all the horrible things they do here. https://benthams.substack.com/p/weve-created-hell-its-called-factory

And when you purchase meat from a factory farm, you result in more animals being brought into existence. https://benthams.substack.com/p/the-causal-inefficacy-objection-is?utm_source=publication-search Farms have some threshold at which they purchase more animals, and you have some chance of triggering the threshold. If you do the math, in expectation you cause about one extra animal to be produced each time you eat an animal.

So each time you purchase animal products, you are causing more animals to be brought into existence in horrible conditions. This means that you are causing animals very large amounts of suffering. Why are you doing this? For comparatively small personal benefit. You will not enjoy a chicken sandwich as much as the chickens hated the weeks of brutal mistreatment they experienced in the production of the sandwich.

>>514963924
Wrong audience. People on this board are of the variety who 360s their opinion depending on what's happened to them personally.

>>514964007
Some of them . But you can still make arguments like if it's wrong to circumcise an infant it's also wrong to kill animals for meat

You can say it's relative and still be a hypocrite and a scumbag.

Non human beings and persons are a good argument for veganism.. so is name the trait
https://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/NameTheTrait

This dialogue tree has been used by vegans many times in live debates, (feel free to comment on one of their videos, email them, message them on Instagram etc to challenge them to a debate on NTT )

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JiGT6ox0Y-M

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gJR5vsrkr9A

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oQLjgo2TfcM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrtziO8Ffc4&pp=ygUjRHIgQXZpIGRlYmF0ZSB2ZWdhbiBuYW1lIHRoZSB0cmFpdCA%3D

If someone says it's okay to kill a animal and turn them into a burger but not okay to do that to a human and the reason they give is that animals can't reason but humans can they'd have to bite the bullet and say it's okay to turn severely permanently mentally handicapped humans who can't reason into burgers. Or go vegan. Or name another trait(s)

>>514964192
I'm a white man in America and I don't believe in Hinduism.
>>514963999
Sometimes people eat meat for reasons of convenience. But once again, this is a comparatively small benefit. The harms of being tortured in a factory farm are vastly greater than the convenience that accompanies meat-eating.

So, in short, to explain why it’s wrong to do all sorts of evil things to animals for personal pleasure, we must think that it’s wrong to cause animals extreme suffering for comparatively minor benefit. But that principle implies that eating meat is seriously morally wrong.

If I’m right about this, then meat-eating isn’t some minor item of misconduct, akin to littering or being rude to someone. It is more like gassing dogs in your basement because you enjoy the smell. In fact, because the average person eats thousands of animals, it would be like if you gassed several thousand dogs over the course of your life to produce a nice smell.

Now, astonishingly, charitable donations https://www.farmkind.giving/compassion-calculator-v2?promo=bentham do so much good that even giving away a small amount of money does more good than going vegan. So going vegan isn’t the most important thing for a person to do—donating to good charities is even more important. But if you eat animal products, that is by far the worst act (as opposed to omission) you take. It is about as bad as puppy torture.

This doesn’t mean you’re as bad of a person as puppy torturers. Sometimes you don’t know when you do evil things. Good people often do evil things when those things are socially accepted. But you are probably causing more suffering to innocent animals than vegan producers of crush content mostly do. You are hurting animals a lot more than people who beat their dogs. Even if a person beats ten dogs a year to death, you are causing a lot more animal cruelty than they are.

So stop! Don’t do the evil thing! Go vegan! Here’s some meal prep advice https://challenge22.com/

>>514963817 (OP)
Shut the fuck up. You will let us eat whatever meat we want or we will eat YOU. End of fucking discussion, for the rest of your pathetic tofu & seed oil shortened life.

>>514963817 (OP)
Crush poojeets and feed them to animals.

eating meat is the best you can do tho, without eating meat every day you die a painful gruesome death.
so its better the animals die so we dont have to be malnourished.

>>514963817 (OP)
nothing disturbs me more than animal cruelty, i can watch cartel beheading videos all day but i cant watch animal cruelty, i love animals with all my heart

>>514964988
Then go vegan. Supply and demand is very real and your individual boycott makes a difference
I know individual consumer boycott does make a difference in sparing chickens lives Like in the first five minutes of this video https://youtu.be/brKhhZlUoOc?feature=shared [Open] [Open] he discuses a study that shows the average consumer has a 90 something percent chance of causing 1 - 900 extra chickens to be bred into existence tortured and killed.

>>514964988
dont listen to the malnourished dying OP, you have to eat as much meat as possible or you will get ill and die.
eating meat means surviving, not eating meat means suicide.
chose wisely.

>>514965081
thats the paradox of life, i get horrible gas and stomach ache from vegetarian food, plus im celiac and all of em have gluten, meat is life for me unfortunately

>>514965177
Go to a nutritionist. There are people on the discord of Dr.Avi , Ask yourself , or nutrivore who will help you plan out a diet

>>514965269
a jew wont help him, you need meat to live, no jewish doctor can change that.

Why do you have picture of that?

>>514965320
It was one of the first results on duck duck go for "animal torture" with partial safe search on

>>514963817 (OP)
fuck off PETrAnny

Why do vegans crave meaty cocks to suck? Puzzler.

>>514963817 (OP)
Your post is confusing
So your pro meat eating , just not animal torture…..makes sense.

>>514965269
im from an agrarian family and we loved our animals even though we ate them in the end

Based. I've been vegan for 9 years. I look and feel younger.

>>514965269
Unfortunately you Jews have poisoned all food in the US especially vegetables and fruit.
The real solution is to kill all Jew and chink Marxist trying to destroy the US from within.

>>514965735
That's not love. If an animal is living a net bad life you shouldn't breed them into existence. If an animal is living a net good life you shouldn't slaughter them when they're still young and healthy and cut their good life short.

>>514965815
Trust me , you don’t

Depends on where you’re getting your meat.
if it’s from the supermarket then yeah you’re eating nothing but harvested fear and torture.
if you hunt or get meat from a local source, then nah.

>>514965815
Thanks. good for you anon.

>>514965532
S O Y

>>514965924
who said they were slaughtered at a young age? do you know anything about livestock? you must be a city boy

>>514963817 (OP)
Another shill thread for the new capitalist industry of artificial food and bugs flour.
These shills get paid a lot!

>>514965968
>>514965924
That's not true. Also small tiny homesteads still abuse animals, just search "DIY piglet castration no anesthetic" on YouTube
>>514966044
Yes I do, we clearly have different definitions of young. I think killing a human or animal who doesn't have a painful terminal illness is killing them when they're still young. I think if someone dies right before they get to retire they're dying young

>>514965154
This
You can always spot vegans and veggies they look like death warmed over

>>514966154
Soon paid with bullets

>>514963817 (OP)
>purchasing
Im a nigger i straight up steal shit

>>514964269
Why does every vegan I meet have putrid breath? Is it the tooth decay from lack of nutrients? They also seem to be extremely talkative and have a short attention span.

>>514966178
ohh youre one them hippies, now i get it, we had cows and after they stopped producing milk we ate them, its life bro

>>514966641
No it's a moral failing on the part of you and your family. Free will exists

>>514966178
You can't live on G*d's Green Earth with clean hands. Even if the world went vegan, there would still be an astonishing amount of death involved in maintaining the crops.
You simply can't live in this society with clean hands.

So why the fuck did the shill's ID change 3 times?
First on OP.
Then the first two replies.
And then now his thrid ID seems to be his final and most used one.
I though VPNs were banned?

>>514966972
its easy to moralize while sipping a cafe latte at some starbucks, grow a pair lt dudr

>>514967109
I agree death will still happen but murder is optional. Human workers die harvesting grains and human truck drivers die transporting it. But human slaves aren't forced to pick grapes and lynched if they work too slow or get injured

>>514967135
>what is 4chan pass

>>514963817 (OP)
Look I enjoy meat and sure as hell ain't going to feel bad for doing so no matter what anyone else says

>>514967223
Tell that to vegans in third world countries, vegans in prison, disabled vegans, vegans in food desserts, vegans in the military etc

>>514963817 (OP)
Tldr, you’re gay

>>514967333
Oh yeah that's a thing that exists.
Now to answer your moralfagging, I don't care. Take your fee fees and shove them up your ass.
Factory farming is infinitely more efficient than fake-meat or whatever other bullshit you leaf eaters came up with. Considering it's more efficient it'll feed more people, and that's an indisputably morally good thing. Therefore, no matter how much the animals suffer, they do it for a greater cause, therefore it is a moral good.

>>514967235
No I meant that to maintain industrial levels of agriculture there is a great deal of destruction of wildlife and its habitat. There is no way around it.
I can concede that it is incidental but the result is the same. Cattle generally have a good life where they openly graze in fields. Same with ethically raised chickens.

>>514968340
>Now to answer your moralfagging, I don't care. Take your fee fees and shove them up your ass.
Chattel slavery is infinitely more efficient than voluntarily employment or whatever other bullshit you abolitionists came up with. Considering it's more efficient it'll feed more white people, and that's an indisputably morally good thing. Therefore, no matter how much the blacks suffer, they do it for a greater cause, therefore it is a moral good.

>>514968417
>No I meant that to maintain industrial levels of agriculture there is a great deal of destruction of wildlife and its habitat.

Yes and there's a great deal of wild animal suffering and rights violations on wildlife.
>There is no way around it.
>I can concede that it is incidental but the result is the same. Cattle generally have a good life where they openly graze in fields. Same with ethically raised chickens.

Yes but pasture raised cattle still cause deforestation and most of them are still fed crops

>>514968481
Well now you're just equating animals to black people.
Wile most of them do act like animals, they're still part of the human species and some of them have better developed brains than your average cow or ukranian.
While you make a good point in favor of slavery, It isn't the original point of discussion we're having, so why don't you come back to the topic and come up with an actual counter-argument?

>>514969064
No it's not equating it's comparing and it's an analogy.
>Human species

Meaningless distinction. Are proto humans part of the human species? https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/40952000/#q40952000

>>514963817 (OP)
Meat affects the conciousness i think. So you meditate a whole day and get some gains but then chomp some steak and boom thats crazy

>>514969319
Sure let's get off topic, why not.
The post you linked to can be summed up as: "what sets us apart from animals?".
Simple, we can think. If you want to be religious, there it is, that's what it means to be made in "God's image".
But animals think too, they feel pain and have dreams and shit, no doubt you're thinking these things. To that, I say no they don't. They can't really think, they aren't anywhere close to our mental development level. You're delusional for believing they can form coherent thoughts.
They can't speak, they can't write, they can't plan, they can't look around and truly comprehend their surroundings. They act on instinct.
So can proto-humans be considered a part of the human species? It depends solely on their ability to think.
No doubt you're dismissing all of what I've said because it goes against your hippie beliefs of "mother earth" and "all life is equal" along with other such bullshit you latte-sipping rich snob fucks believe, but I implore you to go into the wild and look for a pack of wolves or a bear and find out for yourself how cuddly and wholesome nature really is. If you're unwilling to do that at least take your preferred outgroup and go live with them, be they animals, puddles or rocks your heart bleeds for.

>>514963817 (OP)
So you made this chatGPT essay and didn't bother to post that animal crush video?

>>514963817 (OP)
This a poor analogy brought to you by a 85 IQ retard. All fields. Next post please.

>>514970616
Being able to think is a spectrum it's not binary. Reread 4plebs

>>514963817 (OP)
Eating meat is karmic neutral unless you order an animal to be killed for you. Even the Buddha ate meat! When asked by one of his monks to establish a rule that prohibits the consumption of meat in his order he refused. Buddha rejected any form of unhealthy asceticism as resentment that "does not lead to liberation".

>>514972455
By purchasing meat with money you are ordering an animal to be killed for you. You're not dumpster diving you moron.
>>514965081

>>514972293
Nope.
Have fun screaming into the void, I'm not obligated to try curing your stupidity. I'll take comfort in the fact your malnutrition will take you to an early grave.

>>514963817 (OP)
If God created a world where the only way to survive is to crush animals, then I will choose life and crush the animal. There's a reason most people eat meat.

>>514963817 (OP)
Literally everything on earth has to consume the lifeforce of another entity to survive.
Your problem is with God.

Meat eating is natural

>but plants
Plants also consume the life essence of others

>>514964730
What have the animals done to deserve being fed something so disgusting?

>>514963817 (OP)
Wrong board. Also, eating meat is natural. We evolved as omnivores and most people will get sick if they do not eat meat. Factory farms are unethical. But saying don’t eat meat because the meat production is messed up is like saying don’t drive a car or use electricity because it hurts the ozone layer. Get real dude. Also, by your own standard of ethics you should eat plants either. Just because plants don’t feel pain like animals do does not mean they don’t suffer.

>>514963817 (OP)
>Evil is best known through examples
For example, trying to guilt a species of carrion eaters into making themselves sick and stupid through elective malnutrition.

You people are monsters. And yes, I know all about your "cheating" and crushing depression. Please limit yourself to self-harm and stop trying to harm other people.