Thread 515675490

I don't post here ever, but there were some questions that I would like to ask westerners about Charlie, his views and standpoints, as well as things that I see westerners ignore completely on a daily basis. Just for understanding where I come from – ex soviet country, born just after it’s fall, seen poverty and pulled myself out of it. Seen 90s and “criminal times” with Russian “culture” in all of it. Been living with Russians all my life, speak Russian, watch their news firsthand, can analyse it from the source and draw my own conclusions. I am not Ukrainian, born and citizen of a NATO country in EU, not the richest one, but my salary now is quite on the level with one from more developed nations.

>>515675490 (OP)
What are your questions?

>Ukraine received 200bn (or 300bn if to listen what Trump says) in aid
-Aid in what, actual money or training and old gear that you have stockpiles of and much of it is unused, sitting in some desert/base/bunker? Plus, you have put a price tag that is your price tag, not something that was bought in a fair market kind of trade from an arms market or such. Plus, most of the equipment was to slow Russia down, not stop it or regain any of the land. Realistically it is around 130bn from USA, when Europe gave around 165bn. That’s also about “Europe not doing their part”.
> Budapest memorandum was a mistake and ceremonial and should be treated as such
-Okay, so we should keep in mind that west does not keep its promises when it comes to giving back on, it is concerned only to receive, in this case nukes, which might have been a good deterrent for such aggression. Same goes for NATO article 5 if we think about it – allies that have nothing to do with middle east send their troops to another American sand war over false narratives. They called for it and we (allies) sent our troops to help you in the fight, having casualties in the process. No questions asked, America was the only country so far to call to article 5, even while being “the greatest military ever”, as always.

>Zelenski is a corrupt dictator, he should have at least done an informal voting, to see his approval numbers
- It is under UA constitution that elections will not be held while at war, only actual dictators ignore constitutions and do what they please. Plus, anyone who knows anything about Russia has seen what they do with any elections, they have absolutely no faith in any elections, those are laughed about on all social levels and held just for the show while every one knows it’s just circus. Plus, to talk about dictatorship when the other side has an actual dictator that has been on the throne for 20+ years, changed constitution of his own country to do that, has openly killed and imprisoned all his political rivals? OPENLY.
>We supported USSR in WW2 and it was a very good thing
-For them to go in an arms race with you, create an atom bomb and occupy half of Europe against their will and send droves of people that disagree into labour camps of Siberia to die in, create proxy wars in Korea, Vietnam, put their puppets in Afghanistan and then botch it, creating unstable middle east that would be a problem for all of the free world for years to come, killing bunch of our soldiers in the process. Is that really such a good thing? Plus, weren’t you against commies in campuses? Or we should cherry-pick the good things about it, ignore gulags, murders, treatment of even their own (USSR) veterans like dangerous elements, imprisoning everyone that has ever surrendered to Germans (One of my family members did get into gulag for that, as a soldier of red army). Should we also ignore the absolute hate USSR born had for everything and anything western, especially America? Or do you consider them as friends after all that? Why?

>Crimea should be given to Russia, probably other regions too (as I understood)
- To have a precedent they had in 2008 with Georgia again in Ukraine, where you can take and keep territory by military means and that the west is going to do heck about it? How far will that go? How many examples of the same mistake do you need to do basic analysis of what Russia is?

And some of my own thoughts:
- Do you really think Russia is developed, Christian, conservative, traditionalist, fair? Do you live in a vacuum of their propaganda? How could you fall for something that is made for idiots with low IQ, since all their messages and projections can easily be dismantled with very basic logic?
- What do you think your allies think of you, the ones you used in your dumb desert wars, when they pay the amount required by NATO from their GDP, had their servicemen killed in the process, yet you still toy with the idea that maybe they are not worth fighting for if SHTF.
- Maybe you are scared to fight anyone but sand people, with inferior weapons and tactics, that even weak Russian army scares you to this level of basically being a total coward? Nukes are the factor? Nukes from 70s have no systems developed by you to mitigate this threat in any way, you just sat on your ass all these years just hoping no underdeveloped nation with rockets would like to destroy you? Maybe your military industrial complex is not that great if you are ready to sacrifice your allies just like that?
- What precedent would be giving up your direct allies lead to? Plan a war with China in the future? Good luck with that, since Iran, NK and Russia are all in their pockets now, I guess there is no escape with Russia coming for you (Just watch their news or any program with political views, direct translation of it, all their media is state owned, so chose any channel/program you want, you will be surprised).
- Where did the “policeman of the world” go, when stakes got just a little bit higher?
- I guess it is clear that Russia will attack NATO allies if Ukraine loses any of its territory, but still, a question, in case anyone has good point why this is not so.
- Do you think any nation wants to join Russia this way, to live in a corrupt prison state and shit economy?

>>515675991
>How could you fall for something that is made for idiots with low IQ, since all their messages and projections can easily be dismantled with very basic logic?

no serious poster here actually does that. only children, glownigs etc. when the site went down we all went to altchans, and it bacame clear that /pol/ nowadays is just a few hundred real guys.

also there are plans within plans within plans anon. none of what we are seeing on the surface on a geopolitical lvl is to be taken for real. this entire world is contuct of lies.

And additional question:
- I get that US trained and put a very generous price tag on their training provided for Ukranian soldiers, I get the part where training was specific, like for planes, tanks and such. Why do Americans ignore the fact, that these guys are much more experience in everything else, the only nation currently with good experience in modern combat, drones, tactics? Some Ukranians have even told stories of of US advisors telling them to "walk around" some of the fortifications made by the enemy, where in such a situation they would get fucked by rain of fire, moving between fortifications.

Thus, are Americans completely degraded mentally? Even in the army? Ate too many burgers that logic got shat out? You ignore drone warfare, any current developments in warfare, current experience. You don't even consider the deal with drones, just sitting on stockpiles of what will become milsurp and depend on your aviation or something? I just don't get it.

>>515675991
>Do you really think Russia is developed, Christian, conservative, traditionalist, fair? Do you live in a vacuum of their propaganda? How could you fall for something that is made for idiots with low IQ, since all their messages and projections can easily be dismantled with very basic logic?
Fuck no. They are a post communist shithole with the HIV rate of San Francisco.
>What do you think your allies think of you, the ones you used in your dumb desert wars, when they pay the amount required by NATO from their GDP,
They should have been doing that the whole time.
>Maybe you are scared to fight anyone but sand people, with inferior weapons and tactics, that even weak Russian army scares you to this level of basically being a total coward? Nukes are the factor?
Nuclear blackmail is pretty effective of the boomers who run our government. I think it's stupid, but I don't really have much say on foreign policy.

I'm not even going to answer all of these. I don't really disagree with you. The whole based and trad Russia thing is a psyop for retards and terminal contrarians. But it has been effective enough that a lot of people believe that Russia is either a trad utopia, or are so scared of "escalation" that they'd let them take Alaska if they tried it.

>>515677858
Holy smokes... There goes my belief or Americans being the warmongers... Giving up Alaska, that is insane.