Thread 516130166

what do you think about the law that the state is obliged to provide a citizen with a house or apartment for free? why does no one from modern politicians and parties talk about this? in the ussr it was

because jews and their pets in corporations and political positions dont want their investments to fall down and they love seeing struggling masses

>>516130166 (OP)
your walls are 2cm thick

>>516130166 (OP)
sounds like something commies and niggers want

>>516131017
You are confusing them with American cardboard houses

>>516130166 (OP)
>what do you think about the law that the state is obliged to provide a citizen with a house or apartment for free?
I'm fine with it, but only if it's being implemented by non-crazies. That means no communists, no trannies etc. I support central planning for things that are both necessary and have fixed supply (eg land) and markets for anything where the supply can vary (eg food). I base this on both the failures of the US and the USSR, and on how people naturally behave under siege conditions (where supply of necessities is artificially fixed).

The USSR had no food because food is variable-supply and markets are optimal when supply can vary.
The USA has a constant housing crisis because land is fixed supply and central planning is optimal when supply is fixed.
When a city is under siege (new food can no longer be created) they will naturally switch to rationing because central planning is optimal when supply isn't free to vary. When the siege is lifted rationing naturally stops because central planning is suboptimal when supply can vary.

You can also think in terms of investor incentives.
If supply can vary then investment leads to increased production, which enables undercutting, which in turn leads to lower prices for consumers. The interests of investors and consumers are aligned.
If supply is fixed then investment leads to accumulation of the fixed supply, which leads to more scarcity for everyone else, which in turn leads to higher prices for consumers. The interests of investors and consumers are opposed.

>>516130166 (OP)
It would be hard to transition to this system in the U.S.
>can't reallocate existing housing stock without legal system getting swamped with discrimination lawsuits because Tyrone's government-provided housing isn't as nice as Timmy's
>government-built housing would have anything of value torn out of the walls and would be crime infested shitholes, requiring them to be torn down and replaced with hastily-constructed prison-like blocks with panopticon surveillance to prevent further decay

>>516130166 (OP)
>provide a citizen with a house or apartment for free?
'for free' means no pay
no pay means you're enslaving construction workers to build an apartment for you
this is why communism fell btw
eat shit pidor

>>516130166 (OP)
Man, a new facade and some actual colors would do wonders for these blocks.

>>516131017
Haven't you seen how sturdy and thick the walls are in commie blocks in Ukraine? They can take quite a beating.

>>516131895
I don't think it would be hard to transition at all. We already have public housing, though they have certainly shifted towards Section 8 which allows landlords to grift.

Just build more public housing. I don't think it should be "free". Even without the landlord's skim there is a certain amount of maintenance that must be done to keep buildings in working order. Obviously they should probably be designed from the outset to maybe try to keep that to the bare minimum or make it easier, but the point stands.

>>516132124
No, the construction workers would obviously be paid. You could also make use of labor--saving techniques like mass timber or precast concrete. You could also draft the unemployed masses into working on them in lower-level roles doing grunt work and getting some basic training. Make use of idle resources first so you aren't pulling so much from the private sector (because ultimately the public and private sector are drawing their resources from the same places, so if they are competing over them you will get inflation)

>>516132514
>No, the construction workers would obviously be paid
then the apartment is not free
you're just offloading the cost of construction onto "someone else"
or having the government pay for it with printed money
which causes inflation
which means everyone is paying for your "free" apartment you piece of shit commie
btw commies like you get pir related

>>516132209
>Just build more public housing. I don't think it should be "free".

I pretty much agree. Housing assistance as a means-tested benefit can work (though I still have some issues with it). That's more manageable and gives the government more flexibility to put in necessary restrictions.

Housing as a fundamental, inalienable right of all citizens is immensely more complicated.

>>516130166 (OP)
>in the ussr it was
what happened to the ussr

>>516132943
so much this

>>516132703
It is obvious from the context that they are free for residents. Inability to understand context is a sign of autism and schizophrenia btw.

>>516131415
no,i was in commieblock in moscow
You can hear every neighbor shitting and pissing.
litteraly
>>516132198
its the carpets on the wall

>>516133046
the ussr bankrupted itself in your ebany v rot "context", Pidorovich.

>>516132943
corrupt politicians sold it out to become oligarchs. Didn't capitalist countries fall apart? What about Austria-Hungary?

>>516131800
Here, I can sum up your points better, in a way that will fix it all much faster.

>5 billion people need to be dead, then we don't have to worry about scarcity planning

>>516133403
>>5 billion people need to be dead, then we don't have to worry about scarcity planning
or just implement a one child policy
that will fix the problem of everything scarcity
lol

>>516133057
there were many soviet projects and all of them were free, here's another one. and the thin walls of the old soviet project have no direct relation to the law that is being discussed, stick to logic

>>516133111
>the ussr bankrupted itself
Now bring the proves for that pidor

>>516130166 (OP)
ussr also required you to work if able whereas in the usa labor is a humiliating stopgap until you acquire enough assets to exploit other workers like the temporarily embarrassed billionaire you are

>>516130166 (OP)
>>516131017
>>516131189

Is this a joke?

This is ALL MODERN POLITICIANS ARE NOW.

Housing is the only issue on the agenda.

Mark Carney, Gavin Newsom, Mamdani, even TRUMP ran on this with his freedom city idea.

>>516133674
here are the "proves":
>there was a ussr
>there is no ussr now
you mongols had to leave the half of Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia because you ran out of money to prop up your pidor empire

>>516133575
You're pointing out the problem
Cast concrete slabs that act as sound carriers.
In Germany, we also built like this in the post-war years; the houses are all rubbish.

>>516131017
You can cut through it with boxcutters

>>516134111
Even if it sounds silly, US walls have better insulation than poured cement.

>>516134111
the weight carrying walls (or whatever you call them in English) are actually solid concrete and tough
the partition walls are soft gypsum and you can drive nails into them with your bare hands

>>516133950
you are a degenerate and do not understand what bankruptcy is. and you also have big problems with logic. the us left vietnam and iraq. apparently they are also bankrupt. say thank you to the ussr for your country, it was literally created by the ussr within its modern borders. the ussr saved your people from total destruction too

Before opening the image, I thought it was Donetsk or one of those bombed-out places.

>>516131017
I have brick walls

>>516130166 (OP)
jews like keep poors as rentoids as then they have better control where poors with wrong opinions live

>>516134374
>you are a degenerate and do not understand what bankruptcy is
I know you bydlo were here and now you're gone
that's all I need to know
>the ussr saved your people from total destruction too
yes, by going bankrupt in 1991, thank you
>the us left vietnam and iraq. apparently they are also bankrupt.
no, they peaked in the 1990s with unprecedented prosperity while you ate shit and prostitued your children

>>516134519
How much insulation do you have inside and outside?

>>516130166 (OP)
If the state has to provide housing then the state will enslave (You) to provide housing. God, commies are so fukn stupid. Can you not see the chain that requires that?

they shouldn't provide it for free but they should build cheap housing that serves as a control for housing prices, also get rid of the blacks

>>516134860
>Can you not see the chain that requires that?
future nigger 15 seconds from now is not them

>>516134560
the socioeconomic mobility (or rather instability) keeps people preoccupied on their own shit instead of asking why society sets everyone up to fail
All failures of the system which are really to blame on the ruling class become personal moral failures so there's no will to change anything, by design

>>516134026
The walls were thick, but the sound insulation was trash. Electrical wiring was just holes in the wall, you could talk to your neighbot through the sockets.
>>516133674
It was not sustainable. Planning your economy based on some arbitary rules, rather than free market, making "everybody working" meaning you just sent people to workplaces, doesnt matter if they needed them or not, meaning most factories were working at a loss. And it all went tits up, when the oil money could not cover it because of the embargos. Dont get me wrong, i dont know if the current system is that much better, but cccp was very flawed.

>>516132800
>Housing as a fundamental, inalienable right of all citizens is immensely more complicated.
I am not sure it is, as long as you accept there might be some restrictions. Obviously as a matter of course public housing isn't going to be as nice as private housing potentially could be. People who already have money would not want to make use of it and wouldn't need to. It's going to be reality that housing won't be available in the needed amounts in every specific city someone may prefer to live in, so they may have to go somewhere else or stay where they are, respectively.

But I think there could be extraordinary capital accumulation benefits for working and middle class people if they could be relieved of high housing costs for a few decades or a generation or two. That's why I am not so sure about the means-testing. It might limit it to just the most abject poor, which we should obviously help, but there is still a broader extraction going on.

>>516134847
I'm not sure if there's any
I only hear my upstairs neighbors sometimes, but this isn't something that is easily dealt with tbhq
Luckily, they are normal folk, not some degenerates or alcoholics

>>516132124
yeah anon i think we should live in a place like somalia with no public services such as education or roads

>>516130166 (OP)
The law worked out terribly, people were arbitrarily assigned housing for a long time and commie blocks with shared bathrooms and showers were rape factories as well.

In America we had a 40 acres and a mule program. It should be revived, the federal government is sitting on more land than all of Western Europe combined. Every US citizen should be able to enter into a land lottery with full rights, for free.

>>516130166 (OP)
Do you feel no sympathy for the retards that put half of their wage aside to the bank jew for the next 30 years to live in the same housing standard that an illiterate peasant was given for free?

>>516134560
White people don't like houseowners either.

We know they're Jewish. The ultra-rich have always been Jewish.

>>516135416
> public services such as education or roads
all this is paid for by taxes
do you pay taxes?
do you work?
no, you don't
you just hold out your hand and hope some tendies fall into it because you used shaming language on productive people
again
>>516132703

>>516134860
There is already a large stock of private housing, from which many people would have no desire or need to move on from. So the enslavement thing doesn't make any sense, especially for people who have little or no disposable income after rent despite working 40+ hours a week.

It is in society's benefit to make it as easy and inexpensive as possible for people to get out of their parent's house as quickly as possible and saving up money and investing it as soon as possible.

We have a rentier extraction going on in this country -- primarily concentrated in the real estate, insurance, finance, and marketing sectors -- that is dragging everything else down to keep itself up.

>>516134621
the ussr was not bankrupt and the collapse was not due to the economy, you just don't know the topic and are engaged in resentment.

>>516130166 (OP)
israel needs the money more

>>516130166 (OP)
>what do you think about the law that the state is obliged to provide a citizen with a house or apartment for free
We used to have IT here. Then boomers that got upset that generations after them will get it too and their value won't rise. So they shut the door for everyone.

>>516135799
>the ussr was not bankrupt and the collapse was not due to the economy,
then why is it gone?
>be successful powerful strong fearsome empire
>decide to "sell it out" because.... reasons!
no, you pieces of shit went bankrupt because you're russian

>>516134860
what if we introduce a special tax for the very rich for this? you really don't understand that there are many options and in the West 5 percent of the population owns 90 percent of the wealth?

>>516135398
If your wall looks like this,
you have just confirmed my point.

>>516135949
>what if we introduce a special tax for the very rich for this?
the very rich move their businesses to a tax haven and stop paying taxes in their home country

>>516131017
you can call it ugly, you can say it deprives residents of autonomy and dignity, but you can't make the case that these buildings are fragile. They were designed to withstand damage, and thats why it is hard to upgrade them and run new cabling in between rooms operated by concrete.

>>516135307
reforms were needed, but the USSR was not even close to being bankrupt, the decision to disintegrate was purely political.

>>516134847
I have brick walls in a cottage.
1.5 bricks thick for external (so circa 40 cm), 1 for internal. Can't hear a thing through those, all the sounds come through windows and roof (where applicable). Drilling 2 floors down is still quite loudly heard though.

Internal insulation is drywall. External insulation is 15cm mineral wool + wooden boards. Planning on replacing it with fiber-cement siding ones soon, which would make the insulation worse but I wouldn't have to bother with repaining it as well as worry about the flammability.

>>516136201
>the decision to disintegrate was purely political.
why?
if the ussr was doing so well, why disintegrate?

>>516136040
>>516135949
Government spending is not dependent on revenue, so it doesn't matter if the rich pay higher taxes or leave and take their money with them. The State can ALWAYS create more money and it can ALWAYS afford to pay for whatever is for sale in its own currency. The only limitation is whether the real resources they would purchase with that money (labor, materials, tools, etc.) is available in sufficient quantities.

>>516130166 (OP)
>the state is obliged to provide a citizen with a house or apartment for free?
Its kind of like that in Norway. In Norway we have a law that says the government have to provide social housing to people who are destitute.

>>516130166 (OP)
You forgot to mention how a family of 5 (old parents, married kid with his wife, and his kid) would share a tiny one bedroom apartment because waitlist to get a separate apartment would be 15-25 year long.

And you never owned any of them. The state could take it at any time. Why did you forget to mention any of these, shill?

>>516136362
Put more simply, whatever the State can actually DO it can afford.

>>516135574
Illiterate peasant didn't get to live in a Castle/Palace.

Even the cheapest apartment today is 1000x than the greatest palace or mansion that a King or Emperor could afford.

I actually hate people who own houses for that reason, they have more privilege and power than Kings.

>>516136362
>The State can ALWAYS create more money and it can ALWAYS afford to pay for whatever is for sale in its own currency.
creating inflation and making everyony pay for your communist ideas with increased prices on everything until it all goes bankrupt like the ussr
thanks for supporting my point

>>516135921
>then why is it gone?
the nomenklatura decided to become oligarchs, I already wrote

>>516135950
Bricks are 2cm thick in Germany? Talk about shrinkflation

>>516130166 (OP)
This is no different to living in a state that is compelled to kill a citizen when they request it.

Imagine appealing to the state to end your life, the most personal of responsibilities abdicated.

Now consider that where you live, under what conditions you live in, perhaps the second most personal of responsibilities should be up to the state.

$20 at the local pharmacy is more dignified than letting the state do either for you. To you.

>>516136040
Wall street will move to Hong Kong, ok

>>516136531
>the nomenklatura decided to become oligarchs, I already wrote
why?
why were they ideological communists from 1922 to 1991 but then decided to become oligarchs?
because the system went bankrupt
they could not be Stalinists anymore because there was no money

>>516136673
>free trade will move the communist party controlled peninsula
sure it will lol

>>516136521
If the money is used to increase supply of productive assets (which homes/apartments would be) this is NOT inflationary. While it may inflate wages in the construction sector because the State would now be competing with the private sector for those resources, it would deflate prices and costs in the real estate sector.

If the State issues this money at lower rates than the private sector would, that is also less money being introduced via the multiplier effect. The State could do it as zero-interest if it were so inclined -- it doesn't need to sell bonds to finance itself.

>>516136303
because the income of the most powerful officials and the nomenklatura could be more than the salary of a professional worker only 6 times. there was such a soviet law limitation. brezhnev's salary was 600 rubles. and they wanted to be very rich and spend their money all over the world

>>516130166 (OP)
What problem does that solve? People who would be homeless without gibs belong in a specialised facility, they're not correctly functioning people.

>>516130166 (OP)
>in the ussr it was
No it wasn't, you retard.

>>516136521
Ignore him, he's the MMT moron from yesterday and the day before.

He thinks governments should just print money and fund projects willy nilly. He doesn't understand cost of capital.

>>516136936
MMT is complete garbage you need to move on.

>>516136100
The quality of the work is disastrous; it would never be accepted in Germany and would have to be demolished.
Fill in the joints and sand them down to the same height as the stones.
Get some clay plaster and apply 1-2 cm.
This will improve your quality of life by 200%.
>>516136289
Stone wool is a good alternative.
It has very good fire protection and insulation properties at all levels.

>>516136936
homes are not productive assets
unpaid work is slavery
you're just a commie who wants a free house because
>I have rights on account of having been born
no, you don't, earn your shit

>>516136454
That's one more bathroom than a trailer park, and some American families have lived in trailers for generations.

>>516137095
So if you're not born to a wealthy family, you are not a correctly functioning person?

Also, if that was true (I know you're referring to the homeless) then lethal injection would be the solution, or at the very least move them somewhere with no food, water, or healthcare.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z1LUmkFjEE

>>516137034
>ould be more than the salary of a professional worker only 6 times
this was okay for 70 years
but stopped being okay in 1991
suddenly everyone lost their communist spirit?

>>516137176
Money is created out of thin air by governments and banks. The cost of capital is effectively zero. Of course, the more you introduce the more potential inflationary pressure you can build up -- which is why it is important to direct it towards productive assets.

>>516130166 (OP)
>what do you think about the law that the state is obliged to provide a citizen with a house or apartment for free?
we prefer buying vollas to ukrainian oligarchs

>>516130166 (OP)
Providing people with "free" stuff encourages laziness, just look at germany where an entire class of citizens live just off gibs
Better solution would be state-subsided construction to keep the price low

>>516136863
You don't understand irony either. Of course they won't go anywhere, because their wealth is protected only by the American army.

nothing is free.
the state should intervene and make sure that everyone has a home.
and pay for it eventually.
most homes are overpriced through the nose.
a fucking communist apartment now costs 100k.

>>516137268
People require shelter, so yes homes are productive assets. If those homes allow large portions of the population to live much, much more cheaply than they currently do, it benefits every other aspect of the economy outside of real estate and finance speculators.

>>516136388
Continuation: Its typically people who are heavily addicted to drugs and alcohol who use social housing in Norway. If you go to a social housing neighborhood you can see it on the people's physiognomy there that they are heavily addicted to drugs and alcohol.

>>516136611
see here>>516137227
mixed something up

>>516137470
There's no value in discussing with russians, they're so brainwashed by the myth of communism even if they got sent to gulag to starve to death they'd glorify it
I've got a russian friend who despite being a rational person still believes this bullshit, it's like a religion for them

>>516130166 (OP)
>for free
it was never "free", retard. you worked for every crumb the state gave you, at some shithole job the party picked out. you couldn't quit, you couldn't move towns, because the party knows best. ask your grandparents, if they didn’t already croak from humane 12 hour shifts in those eco friendly soviet factories."

>>516130166 (OP)
Imagine the smell of those places.

>>516137290
Sure. Those who want to. Nobody is trying to pull goblins out of their mud existence.Those who like drugs and being useless drunkards live in trailers.

But in Soviet union you would be stuck in a commie block shithole box even if you were talented and hardworking. And your neighbors would be said drunkards. In US you can choose who you want to be, in USSR you were forced to be an equal with literal subhuman trash even if you were a talented genius level engineer, or a scientist, or whatever.

In USSR, an alcoholic factory worker who could barely read and write was paid 3x what an engineer was paid. That's perversion of economic justice.

>>516137515
Housing wasn't free in the USSR.
Most was funded via your employer, some was funded by the residents themselves.
None of it was "socialized" though.

>>516130166 (OP)
How did that work out for you? Don't you have houses without a toilet? That's the answer.

>>516137624
>People require shelter
I they should get to work to earn it then
nobody owes them anything
>so yes homes are productive assets
no, that doesn't make them productive assets
that just makes them necessitites for survival
productivity comes later, above and beyond necessities

>>516130166 (OP)
because it is better to be dead than to live like that.

Ok, George Floyd gets a free crib. He has fitty kids. Fitty. They all need dey own crib in 18 years. They all each get fitty kids dey own. See the problem?

>>516137976
wtf are the point stated by OP is about modern times not about ussr

>>516137956
this guy understands
which is why his ancestors ran from the USSR

>>516137684
Lol it's a pic I made mid-renovations, I thought everything just hanging and not properly secured gave it away
Yeah, everything was plastered, except back in the day it was cement plaster
Some things were almost impossible to remove, like some kind of oil paint they did in kitchens and bathrooms, I read about people torching it or axing it and getting a new axe every square meter because it was completely fused to the wall

>>516131415
If you could build a solid house like that it would be genius but unfortunately you can only build small buildings. It would make very cheap buildings, and easy to maintain, only having to improve the modules.

>>516137227
Stone (mineral) wool is what I have, rockwool brand. It is the siding/cladding that I'm thinking of swapping. Currently it's made out of 2cm thick wooden planks. I'm planning on replacing them with fiber cement cladding, either in the form of planks (300x18cm) or boards (150cm by 45cm iirc).
The best brand for the former used to be Cedral (from EU; pic related), but now they're under sanctions so the prices are too high and the shipping is too long.
Boards are produced by Nichiha and Kmew, made and shipped from Japan. Same problem, they're brought by sea and waiting times are 3 months or so and the price is like 60 euros/m2.
Going to figure it out next spring, probably go for local brands that are taking over Cedral's spot, they cost 3 times less and shipping time is 2-3 weeks.

>>516138041
The point is that these things can be done more efficiently now and there are large amounts of resources at the State's disposal -- including lots of unemployed or underemployed or misallocated labor who could be put to work helping these projects along. You can employ the people who would benefit from these theoretical programs to make them happen. Maybe the big box store only has 1 person watching the self-checkout lanes instead of 2.

>>516130166 (OP)
Premise: people who work should give people who don't work a standard of living. So why should I work again?

>>516138231
ok
>>516138391
Sorry, I completely overlooked it because I was still shocked by your friend's wall.
It actually sounds good; if you're in a relatively dry climate, you can work with a thermal insulation composite system.
That actually combines all the advantages: moisture barriers, sound insulation, and thermal insulation. You'll also notice the difference in summer.
It's always a question of geographical location, because Russia has a very diverse climate.

>>516137470
starting with late khrushchev, control over officials by the special services gradually decreased, in 1991 many factors came together. first of all, gorbachev, who was very stupid. let me remind you of your initial thesis about bankruptcy, which you can't prove in any way.

>>516138231
just for comparison

>>516130166 (OP)
Its a law that goes against the elites boomers and goverment. But yes goverment could build bunch of commie blocks to house poeple. Its not rocket science. It was done before with way weaker tehnology.
Question is since goverment is the main actor in artifical scarcity of housing why would they do it?
Currently in my country you can buy a 50 year old commie block appartment with a loan that you will pay out 50 years and that will take a third of average salary. But you are not allowed to build the same commie block today.

Simple artifical scarcity agenda. My 1 euro can of beans is worth milions if Its the only food I let you buy while you are trapped in my basement.

>>516137775
Will you provide evidence that the USSR was bankrupt or are your words also worthless?

>>516140587
>Will you provide evidence that the USSR was bankrupt
i will
show me ussr on the map

>>516137833
Old Soviet areas in cities are usually the greenest areas and smell like forest there

>>516140587
Countries can't go bankrupt in the traditional sense. They can never run out of money. They can run out of things to buy and they can run out of political will to keep existing, but you are correct that the Soviet Union was not bankrupt as we understand the term. Countries create their own money, they can't run out of it.

>>516130166 (OP)
>what do you think about the law that the state is obliged to provide a citizen with a house or apartment for free?
Mandatory human right. The Government is able to borrow against your earning capacity, using the citizens as human collateral. The idea is that you have a lifetime expectancy of a taxpaying capacity, so they'll take out a loan against that, but you as the citizen have no right to that money

Imagine taking out a $200 billion loan and simply putting down the Government as collateral then when you default, just tax the Government more or take out another loan to pay the initial.

So, because of this, I think that Countries should be barred from taking out loans on their citizens unless they can prove due diligence for the health and safety of those citizens, and part of that is ensuring that all citizens have access to AFFORDABLE housing as a human right

As an example, Canada should be denied taking out any additional loans, they've entered population trap status and have failed the due diligence on their citizens, so when they apply for a massive central bank loan, the banks should examine the situation and deny them the loan, citing that only the top 10% of earners qualify for a mortgage and housing exceeds 50% income for most individuals. The banks should tell them to fuck off or force them to invest in money to aleviate the housing problem

>why does no one from modern politicians and parties talk about this?
They're too busy trying to embezzle money from the loan system i've described above. They're psychopaths, if they thought they could ship you a bucket of meth to try and win your vote, they would do it without a second thought

>>516137308
Every single thing you said is dumb.

>>516137956
of course americans just became twice as lazy

>>516141541
You said the homeless should be put in facilities.

You're stupid.

>>516138249
What do you mean by a small building?

>>516140676
you don't understand what bankrupt is

>>516130166 (OP)
>why does no one from modern politicians and parties talk about this
They're stepping down on us as much as possible but demand our lives in war still.

>>516142535
bankruptcy means being unable to fulfill financial obligations, retard. if the ussr isn't even on the map anymore, it obviously can't pay its debts, shithole went bankrupt/collapsed 30 years ago, lmao

>>516143030
Most modern Western countries have budget deficits. The USSR did not refuse any payments at all.

>>516143413
> The USSR did not refuse any payments at all.
lmao yes, because it doesnt exist anymore, can't refuse payments if you're a ghost.

>Western countries have budget deficits
having a budget deficit in a functioning state isn't the same as literally going bankrupt and collapsing into nothing, retard

>>516143030
>>516143413
It has nothing to do with a budget deficit. Government spending is not tied to tax revenue. Governments do not actually borrow money.

The USSR could not go bankrupt because nations that issue their own currency can't go bankrupt -- they issue the money, they can always afford to pay. Whether real world resources the money would be spent on are available or can be produced is a different question. But the money can always be there.

>>516143721
whatever, dude, don't think this was friendly banter. i'll hunt down that commie nigger and hang him from the nearest pole on his entrails once this current iteration of our shithole collapses too