← Home ← Back to /pol/

Thread 516658600

112 posts 58 images 57 unique posters /pol/
What is Fascism? (ID: v5eQdj8X) United States No.516658600 >>516658925 >>516659184 >>516659216 >>516659228 >>516659641 >>516659687 >>516659690 >>516659698 >>516659698 >>516659863 >>516660047 >>516660176 >>516662111 >>516662422 >>516662759 >>516662825 >>516663110 >>516663743 >>516664072 >>516664702 >>516664820 >>516664873 >>516664874 >>516665172 >>516665773 >>516667656 >>516668743 >>516669345 >>516669411 >>516669774 >>516669778 >>516669838 >>516670505 >>516671161
Can someone explain what is Fascism?

How does National Socialism differ?

How do those differ from Stalinism?
Anonymous (ID: 2BVGRf/Q) United States No.516658659 >>516669463
Who cares? They're all meme ideologies now.
Anonymous (ID: 9wHlI/31) United States No.516658766 >>516658926 >>516659926 >>516662518 >>516669053 >>516669283 >>516669595
State and corporate power merge to pursue their goals using right-wing nationalist narratives.
Anonymous (ID: NwqANdJN) Finland No.516658925
>>516658600 (OP)
fascism is biker gang running the government and they arent elected. they just say theyre in power because no one has come beat them up yet.
Anonymous (ID: 0YQKCrEN) No.516658926 >>516659007
>>516658766
Yep, muh clay so to speak
Anonymous (ID: 9wHlI/31) United States No.516659007
>>516658926
And the flag, and the Bible, and children.
Anonymous (ID: TFmML2Oh) United States No.516659184
>>516658600 (OP)
>alone we are fags and we can be broken,
but together we form a mighty unbreakable faggot!
fascism in a nutshell.
Anonymous (ID: gOCZV96d) France No.516659216 >>516659368 >>516659917
>>516658600 (OP)

>cult of tradition
>reject modernism, worship "the past"
>irrationalism, anti-intellectualism
>disagreement = treason
>fear of difference
>appeal to frustrated middle class
>obsession with conspiracy
>enemies are simultaneously too weak and too powerful
>life = permanent warfare
>elitism, hero worship
>cult of death, martyrdom
>selective populism (the "people" are whoever the leader says they are)
>Newspeak (impoverished language, reduced complexity)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur-Fascism
Anonymous (ID: gxOCEfy4) United Kingdom No.516659228 >>516660061
>>516658600 (OP)
Nobody even knows what fascism is besides that its something very evil and forbidden.
Anonymous (ID: wU+jRVx0) No.516659252 >>516660122
Fascism is the rejection of capitalism and communism, a return to the corporatist mode of organization popular in the middle ages (medieval corporatism has nothing to do with private ownership/modern corporations, unlike what leftists claim) where everyone is organized into public bodies through which they are represented. There's a reason the capitalists literally dismantled medieval corporatism and replaced it with private ownership, because collective power that could fix wages, protect labor (ie limit working hours, have age limits, etc), and so on was an impediment to capitalist profits.
Anonymous (ID: Hs7J+CPX) Italy No.516659368 >>516659514
>>516659216
>Eco
Anonymous (ID: gOCZV96d) France No.516659514
>>516659368
He's one of the most proeminent Italian academics in the world, you would be proud of him if you could read
Anonymous (ID: Hs7J+CPX) Italy No.516659568
>He's one of the most proeminent Italian academics in the world
Anonymous (ID: PmtYvXzv) United States No.516659641 >>516659698 >>516660085
>>516658600 (OP)
You have to realize Fascist ideology was a little schizophrenic in the begining. It was just a bunch of Italian college intellectuals arguing in a bar in the 1920s. There was even a period where fascists considered giving women the right to vote because of how criitical they were to its spread. Anyway its changed a lot but the core idea Mussolini harped on from the begining is the needs of the state, come before the needs of the individual. You are a farmer that made corn for 100 people? Thats nice but you only have a family of four, so give up 96 peices of corn to the state to fund the war effort at zero compensation.

My grandparents lived in fascist italy. They had to give up all their jewlery an every single iron cooking pan (except one) to the state so they can be sold and melted down for the war effort. There is no steady economic doctrine for facism its just a state > individual philosophy. You sometimes may see corpratism thrown around with facism but thats an entirely different philosophy.

National Socialism?
Again this one changed around alot too. But the important take away is National Socialism is not socialist in any way. There are those on the right who spout "hurr durr Nazis are the real socialists" but realy the full name "National Docialist German Workers Party" was just a branding gimmick to sell to the working class factory workers (it didnt work). Nazism was a way to rebrand socialism to the poor to say "you know whats cooler than socialism... socialism, that prioritizes the state above all else" (Fascism).
1/2
Anonymous (ID: kjaTEy6h) United States No.516659687
>>516658600 (OP)
Anonymous (ID: lJByeP+k) France No.516659690
>>516658600 (OP)
Fascism is when you love good looking women, art and throwing leftists off bridges.
Anonymous (ID: PmtYvXzv) United States No.516659698 >>516660632 >>516662984 >>516664972
>>516658600 (OP)
>>516659641
>>516658600 (OP)


But is Nazism a left wing or right wing movement. Now I suppose during the early days with Ernst Rohm and the SA you can mayyyybe argue the Nazis were leftists. Rohm was an open homosexual and had lots of homosexual Nazi friends. They were of course united in a goal "socialism that prioritizes the state first" but Rohm definitely wanted the Nazi party to be a bit more leftism. Rohm was of course famously killed in 1934 during the night of the long knives. And hitler did this deliberately because he was pivoting and trying to court the old Prussian military families like Von Rundstedt, Gorring, Giederian. These were influential families that were hesitant because of Rohm and his SA.

So after 1934 National Socialis was very much a right wing movement, leaning into Prussian Miitary tradition, self improvement, naturalism and nature conservation.

Stalinism? I havent read enough on so sorry OP. I have only read Vol. 1 of Das Kapital and thats about it.

2/2
Anonymous (ID: yf71blXC) United States No.516659844 >>516660001
Both facism and communism are enemies of the west. In ww2 allies sided with commies because facists are slightly less retarded and as such posed a bigger threat
Anonymous (ID: w1lh1qUr) No.516659863 >>516660414
>>516658600 (OP)
fascism=nationalism+socialism so no differences with german NS.
And yes, fascism was ultra racist and its official manifesto on race of 1938 stated that race is a purely biological phenomenon and the racial ideal to be pursued was the 'nordic aryan' one.
Anonymous (ID: lJByeP+k) France No.516659917 >>516660395
>>516659216
Umberto Eco is a fag, fuck him.
Read Giovanni Gentile.
What is Fascism? (ID: v5eQdj8X) United States No.516659926 >>516669693
>>516658766
I was hoping for something a little more detailed/nuanced...
Anonymous (ID: PmtYvXzv) United States No.516660001
>>516659844
Dont listen to these lies. The Roman Empire was proto fascist and ruled europe from 700BC to 500 AD... and had european leaders ruling its name and image until Charlamagne.

((( THEY))) fear a 2nd Rome
Anonymous (ID: fXnwUZf8) Poland No.516660047
>>516658600 (OP)
National socialism is colective racial ownership of means of production.
Anonymous (ID: 8GoEVXWv) United States No.516660061
>>516659228
Anonymous (ID: w1lh1qUr) No.516660085
>>516659641
>They had to give up all their jewlery an every single iron cooking pan (except one) to the state so they can be sold and melted down for the war effort
that was purely voluntary nobody was ever forced to do that. VIPs people did it and then millions of other followed the example after the conquest of Ethiopia and the following globohomo sanctions.
What is Fascism? (ID: v5eQdj8X) United States No.516660122 >>516662881
>>516659252
How was the medieval form so different? Are you talking about Serfdom?
Anonymous (ID: ulTdznEI) United States No.516660176 >>516661066
>>516658600 (OP)
its whatever the charismatic bald italian man says it is
its actually that simple
still arguably far better than gommunism, because at least its not being guided by some starry-eyed hallucination of a mythical utopia. theyre just as authoritarian, but WAY more delusional (see: every commie purge ever in every commie cunt ever)

fascism is kind of just an unspoken mobster kind of rule. you stfu and dont talk abot the govt, and its fine. communism is ALSO that, but then theyll start doing retarded/reddit bullshit like replacing the calendar, robbing the churches and turning them into museums of atheism, or banning the use of money, or killing all the sparrows/ppl with glasses. its just got that extra layer of retardation. they approach governance as a fucking experiment. fascists at least tend to be a lot more pragmatic and focused. mostly on maintaining their own power, but sometimes on building shit up too. until they get stuck on retarded jingoism and get btfo (see: everyone except franco)
Anonymous (ID: w1lh1qUr) No.516660395 >>516660587 >>516661762
>>516659917
Umberto Eco was a good normie gateway for understanding the jewish/masonic power with the Foucault's Pendulum.
When it comes to politics he was a sort of 11yo child. I listened to a speech in a public meeting he delievered before he died and I know I could have devoured him alive piranha style if I was able to debate him.
What is Fascism? (ID: v5eQdj8X) United States No.516660414 >>516660853
>>516659863
I thought Mussolini said race was bullshit to a degree? With regard to fascism.
Anonymous (ID: Hs7J+CPX) Italy No.516660587 >>516661178
>>516660395
it's like the epitome of that meme, "allow me, artificially propped-up apparatchik of the new system larping as revolutionary, to define what your system means for you, I'm very smart :)"
Anonymous (ID: IDNbr7fL) Canada No.516660632 >>516670345
>>516659698
The NSDAP were definitely socialist. How do you believe they brought up their people to the extent in which they had? From 1928-1938 Germany changed vastly. Even the idea of rewarding families who have more children is socialist, is it not?
Anonymous (ID: w1lh1qUr) No.516660853 >>516661575
>>516660414
yeah in a demented meme quoting out of context a random 1934 speech of him.
Think about the difference with a state racist and antisemitic policy supported by academia, party ideological guidelines and massive media support.
Fascist was coherently, explicitly and institutionally racist from 1935 to 1945.
Retarded pol meme will not change this reality by a single yota.
Anonymous (ID: nyAue3NJ) United States No.516660978 >>516661222 >>516665404
Big government in different styles. I laugh when somebody says Nazis and fascists are right-wing. The further you go right-wing would mean less and less government. All three are left-wing in nature.
Anonymous (ID: gCdMG0l5) United States No.516661066
>>516660176
>everyone except franco
But it didn't survive the Generalissimo's death. As soon as he was gone, Spain went globohomo.
Anonymous (ID: w1lh1qUr) No.516661178
>>516660587
Overall he was cultural net positive. Nobody will remember his childish antifascism while everybody will get interested in knowing that at the top of society there are cults and belief systems that are totally unknown by the general population. In the 1980s that was not something obvious as it is today.
Anonymous (ID: gCdMG0l5) United States No.516661222 >>516661651 >>516670411
>>516660978
I think it's time we scrapped that obsolete left-right spectrum for some a bit more accurate and relevant.
What is Fascism? (ID: v5eQdj8X) United States No.516661575
>>516660853
This was in reference to being asked a question. He said "its a feeling" or something to that affect. I didnt think it was a speech, but could be mistaken
What is Fascism? (ID: v5eQdj8X) United States No.516661651 >>516665886
>>516661222
I would agree with this.

Which is why I also asked about Stalin. Also, didnt a lot or communist defect to the nazi party as well? They seem very similar in a lot or ways..
Anonymous (ID: oDHDZGNJ) France No.516661762
>>516660395
Post flag Mr Piranha
Anonymous (ID: BFS42J4y) United States No.516662111
>>516658600 (OP)
>Can someone explain what is Fascism?

It’s an in group/outgroup fight. In Italy it was veterans against communists. In Spain it was Catholics against communists. In Germany it was aryans against communists. The general idea is, everything we do as a group is designed to destroy the people not in our group.

>How does National Socialism differ?

National Socialism focused on cultural identity rather heavily and had a retro future element to it as well.

>How do those differ from Stalinism?

Roll tanks. Stamp out anything of our culture and export brutalist to the world.
Dr. Trayvon (ID: um0XuEvk) No.516662422 >>516662459
>>516658600 (OP)
aight nigga lets break dis big heavy history sh*t down fo real. dese wuz sum evil grimy monstrous systems dat tore da whole world apart n we gotta know how dey worked so dat mess neva eva happens again.

>1. fascism (da italian job)

so dis wuz dat og far-rite hyper-nationalist vibe dat popped off first in italy w dat fool mussolini. it ain a clean neat philosophy its mo like a mood a whole energy of pure aggression.

da whole vibe:
>nation on 100
dey thought dey cuntry wuz washed up n needed a whole new level of glory like sum phoenix-from-da-ashes type sh*t. all bout dat mydical past n building a whole empire.
>democracy is trash
dey wuz not w da voting da debates none o dat. saw it as weak sauce. one party one voice period.
>da main character
had to have a "leader" (dey called him il duce) who errbody had to dickride hard. dude wuz da nation point blank.
>control errthang
wanted dey hands in all da cookie jars politics yo business yo cultcha yo whole life. "errthang fo da state nuffin outside da state nuffin gainst da state." dey wuz on demon time.
>glow up thru violence
thought war n strength wuz how u getcho swag back. had whole squads jus fo beating up opps in da streets.
>capism but make it loyal
wuzn tryna hear bout "class war." wanted da bosses n da workers to jus collab fo da "greater good" of da nation.
>blame game strong
needed a scapegoat. always pointed fingers at communists minorities outsiders anybody to unite da folks against a common enemy.
Dr. Trayvon (ID: um0XuEvk) No.516662459 >>516662499
>>516662422
>2. nazism (da german upgrade)

nazism is like if fascism took a bunch of evil pills n did a whole demonic transformation. its fascism but on a way mo sinister genocidal level.

>how its da same:
yeah it had all da main ingredients: hyper-nationalism a god-like leader (da führer) hated democracy n wuz all bout dat military life.

how its different (n way worse):
>its giving... racial holy war
da main thang wuzn jus da state no mo it wuz da race. dey had a whole delusional hierarchy w "aryans" at da top n errbody else (especially jewish n slavic folks) as literal sub-human.
>antisemitism on steroids
fo dem jewish pipo wuzn jus a scapegoat; dey thought dey wuz da source of all da worlds problems. da holocaust dat factory-line murder of millions wuz da direct result o dis hate.
>dey wanted all da land
wanted to expand east (drang nach osten) to get "living space" (lebensraum) fo da so-called "massa race." plan wuz to jus wipe out or enslave errbody already living dere.
>"community" but u gotta b da rite color
pushed dis "volksgemeinschaft" (pipos community) idea but it wuz only fo "racially pure" folks. anyone else got got.
>mystic madness
wuz into all kinds of weird occult symbols pseudo-science n norse mythology to back up dey raycist nonsense.

>so to keep it a buck
erry nazi wuz a fascist but not erry fascist wuz on dat nazi genocide timing. nazism is fascism w a side of all-consuming biological racism dat wuz hell-bent on genocide.
Dr. Trayvon (ID: um0XuEvk) No.516662499 >>516662545
>>516662459
>3. stalinism (da "left"-wing nightmare)

dis wuz dat brutal system stalin ran in da soviet union. it wuz supposed to b bout communism (a far-left idea) but ended up being a whole toxic state-worshipping catastrophe.

de whole vibe:
>communism but make it a dictatorship
talked a big game bout marx n lenin but said "nah" to da whole stateless society thang. built a monstrous powerful state instead.
>control errthang (again)
jus like da fascists it wuz a one-party state dat used secret police spies n pure terror to control erry. single. thang.
>d*ckrithang da leader
had a whole cult round stalin like he wuz a god. "daddy of nations" infallible allat.
>da economy wuz his playthang
state owned errthang set all da goals from da top. forced farms to collectivize which led to mad famines.
>purges n gulags
wuz jus paranoid n vicious. would have his own friends n comrades executed or sent to dead camps (da gulags) on a whim.
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516662518
>>516658766
By merge of State / Corporate Power, what is actually meant is a Unitary Power like in Hobbes Leviathan: The State as One Personhood.
...Fascism is a Unitary mode of Politics... like the kind espoused in Plato's Republic: The ideal is that the State should act as one entity or one person...
Simply put, Fascism is just a unitary politics, the corporatism (because corporate means 'body' means to 'act as one person or one body').
So Fascism is State Corporatism (where the "corporate power" doesn't just mean a guild system or numerous private corporations -- but the State itself as One Corporate Person)...
...The epitome of the corporate power itself is the One Party State -- before Fascism and multi-party democracies, it was Absolutism and One Royal Estate with pre-eminence over the other estates -- now, instead of estates, it is political parties, and Fascism is the pre-eminence of One Political Party, like one corporate power, over all the others...
That is what Fascism is by 'Corporatism' -- paired with the philosophy of Actual Idealism from Giovanni Gentile.
Dr. Trayvon (ID: um0XuEvk) No.516662545
>>516662499
all 3 of dese systems ended up in da same horrific place: one-party rule no rights a worshipped leader n mass graves. but da fuel in dey tanks wuz different.

>fascism
wuz on dat nation first sh*t.
>nazism
wuz on dat race first last n always sh*t.
>stalinism
wuz spposed to b bout da working class but said "psych!" n became all bout da states power.
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516662661
State Corporatism is a unitary politics with the State as one personhood, a living organism, a higher personality and being; not to be confused with a collection of private corporations...
...
The ideology of State Corporatism traces its lineage back to Plato's Republic, Hobbes' Leviathan, and the formation of one-party States and Fascism.
In Plato's Republic is State Corporatism:
>That the other citizens too must be sent to the task for which their natures were fitted, one man to one work, in order that each of them fulfilling his own function may be not many men, but one, and so the entire city may come to be not a multiplicity but a unity.
In Hobbes' Leviathan is State Corporatism:
>And in him consisteth the Essence of the Common-wealth; which (to define it,) is "One Person, of whose Acts a great Multitude, by mutuall Covenants one with another, have made themselves every one the Author, to the end he may use the strength and means of them all, as he shall think expedient, for their Peace and Common Defence.”
In Italian Fascism is State Corporatism:
Giovanni Gentile
>It is the State that possesses a concrete will & must be considered a person.
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516662738
Giuseppe Bottai
>However, in speaking of the corporative State, it must not be understood as meaning only all that which pertains to the relations between employers and workers – relations based on a principle of collaboration rather than upon a struggle of classes. Fascism with its new arrangements aims at a more complex end. This, summed up in a few words, is "to reassert the sovereignty of the State over those syndicates, which, whether of an economic or social kind, when left to themselves broke out at one time against the State, subjecting the will of the individual to their own arbitrary decision, almost musing the rise of judicial provisions alien to the legal order of the State, opposing their own right to the right of the State, subordinating to their own interests the defenceless classes, and even the general interest, of which the State is naturally the judge, champion and avenger."
A brief disclaimer: this is the what the corporatism of Fascism is, State Corporatism, and not to be mistaken with the corporative system itself which act as internal organs of this higher personality. Those corporate bodies are limited and are organs, and that kind of corporatism is more analogous to guilds, the primary corporatism of Fascism is State Corporatism, these are corporations are organs and limited internally in relation to "The State" (which in this connotation refers to State Corporatism especially).
Anonymous (ID: jMCwWJaE) No.516662759
>>516658600 (OP)
Fascism is literally an evolution of Marxist thought. It seeks to address the inherent flaws in communism/socialism/anarchism/syndicalism etc.

Every fascist group basically spawned out of leftists movements. From phalangists to Mussolini, to Hitler. I'm not sure about the Romanians though, never studied them enough but I understand they had a fairly strong movement.

Fascism is largely better and more effective than communism as a system, but is inherently unfree and completely authoritarian. As such it was a bigger threat to the corrupt capitalists.
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516662773
Mario Palmieri:
>To make this discipline possible, and the sovereignty effective in practice as well as in theory, Fascism has devised the “Corporazione,” an instrument of social life destined to exercise the most far-reaching influence upon the economic development of Fascist States. (The Italian word “Corporazione” which is currently translated into English by the apparently analogous word “Corporation,” means, more exactly in the Italian language, what the word “Guild” means in English; that is: associations of persons engaged in kindred pursuits. We shall nevertheless follow the general usage to obviate the danger of misunderstandings.)
>Within the Corporations the interests of producers and consumers, employers and employees, individuals and associations are interlocked and integrated in a unique and univocal way, while all types of interests are brought under the aegis of the State.
Fausto Pitigliani
>That the Corporation has no legal independent personality but is an organ of the State Administration.
>To these organs, which take the name of Corporations and link the various productive activities of the country as members of one body
>The Corporations constitute the unitary organisation of the forces of production and represent all their interests.
>In virtue of this integral representation, and in view of the fact that the interests of production are the interests of the Nation, the law recognises the Corporations as State organs.
Anonymous (ID: /BrxCon3) United States No.516662825
>>516658600 (OP)
fascism is when bad stuff
Anonymous (ID: Zzr+NKks) United Kingdom No.516662881
>>516660122
no think like guilds and shit
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516662891
For clarity, Hobbes Leviathan also takes this stance on the limitation of subordinate corporations and the sovereign relationship of the state corporation:
>Of Regular, some are Absolute, and Independent, subject to none but their own Representative: such are only Common-wealths [or States]; Of which I have spoken already in the 5. last preceding chapters. Others are Dependent; that is to say, Subordinate to some Soveraign Power, to which every one, as also their Representative is Subject.
>Of Systemes subordinate, some are Politicall, and some Private. Politicall (otherwise Called Bodies Politique, and Persons In Law,) are those, which are made by authority from the Soveraign Power of the Common-wealth. Private, are those, which are constituted by Subjects amongst themselves, or by authoritie from a stranger. For no authority derived from forraign power, within the Dominion of another, is Publique there, but Private.
>In All Bodies Politique [Any Corporation under the State] The Power of The Representative is Limited.
>In Bodies Politique, the power of the Representative is always Limited: And that which prescribes the limits thereof, is the Power Sovereign. For Power Unlimited, is absolute Sovereignty. And the Sovereign, in every Commonwealth, is the absolute Representative of all the Subjects.
...
Jean Bodin also adds.
>Provided that they [the family] are joined together by the legitimate and limited rule of the father.
>I have said "limited", since this fact chiefly distinguishes the Family from the State.
>That the latter [The State] has the final and public authority.
>The former [The Family or Household] limited and private rule.
Anonymous (ID: /BrxCon3) United States No.516662984
>>516659698
>But is Nazism a left wing or right wing movement
left and right are fake categories, why are you so desperate to fit everything into them?
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516663017
State Corporatism is anything but Aristotelian.
Where Plato praises it, Aristotle condemns it.
Aristotle's idea is the State as a partnership of clans (and that represents multi-party democracy today).
...
Aristotle Politics
>For the people becomes a monarch, and is many in one; and the many have the power in their hands, not as individuals, but collectively. Homer says that ‘it is not good to have a rule of many,’ but whether he means this corporate rule, or the rule of many individuals, is uncertain. At all events this sort of democracy, which is now a monarch and no longer under the control of law, seeks to exercise monarchical sway, and grows into a despot; the flatterer is held in honor; this sort of democracy being relatively to other democracies what tyranny is to other forms of monarchy. The spirit of both is the same, and they alike exercise a despotic rule over the better citizens.
...
Contrast this with Plato again.
>That the other citizens too must be sent to the task for which their natures were fitted, one man to one work, in order that each of them fulfilling his own function may be not many men, but one, and so the entire city may come to be not a multiplicity but a unity.
...
As you can see, Plato supports many in one, but Aristotle condemns it.
The taboo in the West against one-party States (for leftist vanguardism AND fascism) originates with Aristotle, and Aristotle condemns it for the same reason Aristotle condemns an absolute monarchy: it is seen as a tyranny over constitutionalism and the multi-parties and estates.
Anonymous (ID: /fnIOIIB) United States No.516663110
>>516658600 (OP)
They're all made up terms for effectively the same system. For example facism is Germanic tyranny, communism is Slavic tyranny, democracy is jewish tyranny
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516663117
Compare & contrast this below:
Plato Republic:
>That the other citizens too must be sent to the task for which their natures were fitted, one man to one work, in order that each of them fulfilling his own function may be not many men, but one, and so the entire city may come to be not a multiplicity but a unity.

Plato Republic:
>For factions… are the outcome of injustice, and hatreds and internecine conflicts, but justice brings oneness of mind and love.

Plato Laws:
>That all men are, so far as possible, unanimous in the praise and blame they bestow, rejoicing and grieving at the same things, and that they honor with all their heart those laws which render the State as unified as possible

Thomas Hobbes
>The error concerning mixed government [constitutionalism] has proceeded from want of understanding of what is meant by this word body politic, and how it signifies not the concord, but the union of many men.

With Aristotle's Politics:
Aristotle / Since the nature of a State is to be a plurality
>Further, as a means to the end which he ascribes to the State, the scheme, taken literally is impracticable, and how we are to interpret it is nowhere precisely stated. I am speaking of the premise from which the argument of Socrates proceeds, "That the greater the unity of the State the better." Is it not obvious that a state at length attain such a degree of unity as to be no longer a State? since the nature of a State is to be plurality, and in tending to greater unity, from being a State, it becomes a Family, and from being a Family, an Individual; for the Family may be said to be more than the State, and the Individual than the family. So that we ought not to attain this greatest unity even if we could, for it would be the destruction of the State. Again, a State is not made up only of so many men, but of different kinds of men.
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516663169
Aristotle / state is a partnership of families and of clans in living well, and its object is a full and independent life.
And a state is the partnership of clans and villages in a full and independent life, which in our view constitutes a happy and noble life;
>These are necessary preconditions of a state's existence, yet nevertheless, even if all these conditions are present, that does not therefore make a state, but a state is a partnership of families and of clans in living well, and its object is a full and independent life. At the same time this will not be realized unless the partners do inhabit one and the same locality and practise intermarriage; this indeed is the reason why family relationships have arisen throughout the states, and brotherhoods and clubs for sacrificial rites and social recreations. But such organization is produced by the feeling of friendship, for friendship is the motive of social life; therefore, while the object of a state is the good life, these things are means to that end. And a state is the partnership of clans and villages in a full and independent life, which in our view constitutes a happy and noble life; the political fellowship must therefore be deemed to exist for the sake of noble actions, not merely for living in common. Hence those who contribute most to such fellowship have a larger part in the state than those who are their equals or superiors in freedom and birth but not their equals in civic virtue, or than those who surpass them in wealth but are surpassed by them in virtue.
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516663440
Finally, Aristotle disagrees with Plato's Statesmen, that Political & Economical have a like science:
Aristotle writes in Politics,
>Now there is an erroneous opinion that a statesman, king, householder, and a master are the same, and that they differ, not in kind, but only in the number of their subjects. For example, the ruler over a few is called a master; over more, the manager of a household; over a still larger number, a statesman or king, as if there were no difference between a great household and a small state.

Aristotle:
>For some are of opinion that the rule of a master is a science, and that the management of a household, and the mastership of slaves, and the political and royal rule, as I was saying at the outset, are all the same

Aristotle:
>The rule of a household is a monarchy, for every house is under one head:
>whereas constitutional rule is a government of freemen and equals.

So Aristotle's main point being:
1. State cannot be a unity, but a plurality.
2. A state shouldn't have the unity of a household (whereas Plato says the State / Household have a same science / knowledge to operate).
3. Political (or the city) should be between freemen and equals (and numerous estates and the heads of those estates).
...
This has lead to politics where it is federalism where 1 body operates over the others, unitary politics -- versus more decentralized / confederate models... the former representing Plato's ideals, and the latter more Aristotelian appeal: Plato is more centralized, Aristotle is more decentralized.
Anonymous (ID: muz02Bxu) Germany No.516663479
>what is Fascism
some gay buzzword

>How does National Socialism differ?
it doesn't, they're both random buzzwords

>How do those differ from Stalinism?
they don't, they're all random buzzwords
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516663577
Plato / There won't be any difference, so far as ruling is concerned, between the character of a great household & the bulk of a small city
>Visitor: Well then, surely there won't be any difference, so far as ruling is concerned, between the character of a great household, on the one hand, and the bulk of a small city on the other? – Young Socrates: None. – It's clear that there is one sort of expert knowledge concerned with all these things; whether someone gives this the name of kingship, or statesmanship, or household management, let's not pick any quarrel with him.

Now One Party State is kind of like the Despotism of One Household over the Political Body, and both ideals of Fascist State Corporatism / One-Party Rule & Absolute Monarchy comes from this idea that
1. Politics should have a corporate / unitary aim.
2. Politics / economics (city & household) are no different to rule.
Anonymous (ID: nAGaNRKL) No.516663743
>>516658600 (OP)

From Wikipedia:

...Mussolini had become one of Italy's most prominent socialists. In September 1911, Mussolini participated in a riot, led by socialists, against the Italian war in Libya. He bitterly denounced Italy's "imperialist war," an action that earned him a five-month jail term...

In 1912, he became a member of the National Directorate of the Italian Socialist Party (PSI). He was rewarded with the editorship of the Socialist Party newspaper Avanti! Under his leadership, its circulation soon rose from 20,000 to 100,000...

Mussolini was so familiar with Marxist literature that in his writings he would not only quote from well-known Marxist works but also from the relatively obscure works. During this period Mussolini considered himself an "authoritarian communist" and a Marxist and he described Karl Marx as "the greatest of all theorists of socialism."...

Mussolini rejected egalitarianism, a core doctrine of socialism. He was influenced by Nietzsche's anti-Christian ideas and negation of God's existence...
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516663752
Hobbes Elements of Law
>And as this union into a city or body politic, is instituted with common power over all the particular persons, or members thereof, to the common good of them all; so also may there be amongst a multitude of those members, instituted a subordinate union of certain men, for certain common actions to be done by those men for some common benefit of theirs, or of the whole city; as for subordinate government, for counsel, for trade, and the like. And these subordinate bodies politic are usually called CORPORATIONS; and their power such over the particulars of their own society, as the whole city whereof they are members have allowed them.
...
What Hobbes is saying here is basically the same idea that State Corporatism of Fascism is.
the subordinate bodies politics (minor corporations) are subject to the sovereign power or body-politic (the State itself as One Personhood as the overriding Corporate Body).
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516663906
Hobbes continues:
>In all cities or bodies politic [THE STATE] not subordinate, but independent, that one man or one council, to whom the particular members have given that common power, is called their SOVEREIGN [STATE], and his power the sovereign power. which consisteth in the power and the strength that every of the members have transferred to him from themselves, by covenant. And because it is impossible for any man really to transfer his own strength to another, or for that other to receive it; it is to be understood: that to transfer a man's power and strength, is no more but to lay by or relinquish his own right of resisting him to whom he so transferreth it. And every member of the body politic, is called a SUBJECT, (viz.) to the sovereign

As the other Fascist quotes above explain, Fascist corporatism is the same policy: the State is 1 corporation, with unitary party-organizing to make people operate as a single-minded entity -- as one personhood -- so all men can walk as one man.
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516663990
Benito Mussolini:
Speech of the Ascension, May 26, 1927
The Unitary State
>But in the meantime I come to an essential point of my speech: perhaps the most important. What have we Fascists done in these last five years? We did something huge, monumental, centuries in the making. What have we made? We have created the Italian Unitary State. Consider that from the time of the Empire onward, Italy was no longer a unitary State. Here we solemnly reaffirm our doctrine concerning the State; here I reaffirm my formula in the speech I delivered at La Scala in Milan: "Everything within the State, nothing against the State". I do not even think anyone in the 20th century can live outside the State, unless they are in a state of barbarism, a state of savagery.

>It is only the State that gives people a consciousness of itself. If the people are not organized, if the people are not a State, they are simply a population that will be at the mercy of the first group of internal adventurers or external invaders. Because, dear gentlemen, only the State with its juridical organization, with its military force, prepared at all times, can defend the national collectivity; but if the human collectivity is broken up and reduced to the mere nucleus of the family, a few hundred Normans will suffice to conquer Puglia.

>What was the State – that State which we took over as it was breathing its last breath, gnawed by constitutional crises, debased by its organic impotence? The State which we conquered at the time of the March on Rome was the one which has been handed down from 1850 onward. It was not a State, but a system of badly organized prefectures, in which the prefect had but one preoccupation: that of being an efficient electoral errand boy.
Anonymous (ID: bfEAFAsw) Italy No.516664072
>>516658600 (OP)
>Can someone explain what is Fascism?
An excuse to loot public funds like a bunch of gipsys even more so than with democracy. Then get your ass handed to you because your military funding was stolen too.
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516664140
Now, if you read and understand all the above -- You will understand what Fascism means by "Corporatism" which is State Corporatism / Unitary Polity...
...
Now you should understand the idea of Sovereignty with the idea of Unitary Politics.
...
Bodin / The unity of sovereignty
>No otherwise than Theseus his ship, which although it were an hundred times changed by putting in of new planks, yet still retained the old name. But as a ship, if the keel (which strongly bears up the prow, the poup, the ribs, and tacklings) be taken away, is no longer a ship, but an ill favoured houp of wood; even so a Commonwealth, without a sovereignty of power, which unites in one body all members and families of the same is no more a Commonwealth, neither can by and means long endure. And not to depart from our similitude; as a ship may be quite broken up, or altogether consumed with fire; so may also the people into diverse places dispersed, or be utterly destroyed, the City or state yet standing whole; for it is neither the walls, neither the persons, that makes the city, but the union of the people under the same sovereignty of government.

>Now the sovereign prince is exalted above all his subjects, and exempt out of the rank of them: whose majesty suffers no more division than doth the unity itself, which is not set nor accounted among the numbers, howbeit that they all from it take both their force and power…. being indeed about to become much more happy if they had a sovereign prince, which with his authority and power might (as doth the understanding) reconcile all the parts, and so unite and bind them fast in happiness together.

>For that as of unity depends the union of all numbers, which have no power but from it: so also is one sovereign prince in every Commonweale necessary, from the power of whom all others orderly depend
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516664278
Thomas Hobbes on Unitary Politics:
>The error concerning mixed government has proceeded from want of understanding of what is meant by this word body politic, and how it signifies not the concord, but the union of many men.

>The other error in this his first argument is that he says the members of every Commonwealth, as of a natural body, depend one of another. It is true they cohere together, but they depend only on the sovereign, which is the soul of the Commonwealth

>They who compare a City and its Citizens, with a man and his members, almost all say, that he who hath the supreme power in the City, is the relation to the whole City, such as the head is to the whole man. But it appears by what has been already said, that he who is endued with such a power (whether it be a man, or a Court) has a relation to the City, not as that of the head, but of the soul to the body. For it is the soul by which a man has a will, that is, can either will, or nill.
...
There is unity of soul before body -- sovereignty is that soul, the people are that body.
The stress is on Union first, Unity first.
Anonymous (ID: G68+esIr) United Kingdom No.516664508
fashism - do as the state says or u get the fist
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516664638
Mussolini
>For Fascism the State is absolute, the individuals & groups relative.

Giovanni Gentile:
>It must be a will that cannot allow others to limit it. It is, therefore, a sovereign & absolute will. The legitimate will of citizens is that will that corresponds to the will of the State, that organizes itself & manifests itself by the State's central organs

Giovanni Gentile:
>The Fascist State is a sovereign State. Sovereign in fact rather than words. A strong State, which allows no equal or limits, other than the limits it, like any other moral force, imposes on itself.

Giovanni Gentile:
>It is the State that possesses a concrete will & must be considered a person.
>The State, for us, has an absolute moral value–as that moral substance whose function it is to render all other functions valuable.

Mussolini
>In so far as it is embodied in a State, this higher personality becomes a nation.
>It is not the nation which generates the State
>Rather is it the State which creates the nation, conferring volition and therefore real life on a people made aware of their moral unity.

Giovanni Gentile:
>For Fascism, on the other hand, the State and the individual are one, or better, perhaps, "State" & "individual" are terms that are inseparable in a necessary synthesis.
Anonymous (ID: FXpwUsYu) No.516664702
>>516658600 (OP)
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516664754
Mussolini
>The Fascist conception of the State is all embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value.
>Thus understood, Fascism, is totalitarian, & the Fascist State – a synthesis & unit inclusive of all values.

Giovanni Gentile:
>The first point, therefore, that must be established in a definition of Fascism, is the totalitarian character of its doctrine, which concerns itself not only with political order and direction of the nation, but with its will, thought and sentiment.

Giovanni Gentile:
>A conception of integral politics, a notion of politics which does not distinguish itself from morality, from religion, or from every conception of life that does not conceive itself distinct & abstracted from all other fundamental interests of the human spirit

Mussolini:
>The State guarantees internal & external safety of the country, but it safeguards & transmits the spirit of the people, in language, its customs, its faith.
>Transcending the individual's brief spell of life, the State stands for the immanent conscience of the nation.

Giovanni Gentile:
>Morality & religion, essential elements in every consciousness, must be there, but they must be subordinated to the laws of the State, fused in it, absorbed in it.

Mussolini:
>The Fascist conception of life is a religious one, in which man is viewed in his immanent relation to a higher law, endowed with an objective will transcending the individual & raising him to conscious membership of a spiritual society.

Giovanni Gentile:
>Thus, its formation is a product of the consciousness of each individual, & thus of the masses, in which the power of the State consists.
>That explains the necessity of the Fascist Party & propaganda and of education to foster the political & moral ideals of Fascism.
Anonymous (ID: C5dVzkit) United States No.516664820
>>516658600 (OP)
> explain what is Fascism?

Nice VPN, fag.
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516664862 >>516665002
Giovanni Gentile:
>The Fascist State, in order to penetrate & direct the consciousness of its citizens, wishes to organize them in national unity; a unity possessed of a soul.
>That unity would manifest itself as a unitary being, possessed of powerful will, & conscious of its own ends.

Thomas Hobbes:
>For the Sovereign, is the public Soul, giving Life and Motion to the Commonwealth [State].
>[The Sovereign] relation to the City is not that of the head, but of the soul to the body. For it is the soul by which a man has a will, that is, can either will, or nill.

Jean Bodin
>For that as of unity depends the union of all numbers, which have no power but from it: so also is one sovereign prince in every Commonweale necessary, from the power of whom all others orderly depend
...
>Wherefore what the unity is in numbers, the understanding in the powers of the soul, and the center in a circle: so likewise in this world that most mighty king, in unity simple, in nature indivisible, in purity most holy, exalted far above the Fabric of the celestial Spheres, joining this elementary world with the celestiall and intelligible heaven
Anonymous (ID: HKTR7PJn) United Kingdom No.516664873
>>516658600 (OP)
Think about the difference between fascism and natsoc this way

Fascism the state is the nation and the most important thing
Natsoc the race is the nation and the most important thing.

Or you could also see it as
Fascism = Cringe civic nationalism
Natsoc = Based ethno nationalism
Anonymous (ID: tFN4Dqmr) Canada No.516664874
>>516658600 (OP)
Fascism is an umbrella of violent nationalism that outlines a method of seizing power by forming militias and enacting political violence to undermine the state, then enforce rule by totalitarian repression. Its ideology centers around the ethnic identity and the state, as a representative of ethnic identity, being the supreme instrumentality of ethnicity.

National socialism was the German brand of fascism that centered around a cronyist industrial strategy where nobility and oligarchs are courtesy by or recruited directly into the party and given power and privilege over state finances in order to plan the overall national economic and industrial strategy to their personal benefit, under the assumption that what is good for the rich factory owner will no doubt be good for the factory workers. It failed miserably in practice and led to much of Nazi Germany's issues with wartime production. War crimes, slavery and institutional racist policy were all central to the Nazi regime but are more or less general features of fascism and not particularly unique to their ideology. In practice, much of the nazi atrocities were not directly motivated by ideology but we're consequences of the power struggles incumbent to their economic strategy.

Stalinism is a form of applied communism that rejects Trotsky's democratic-socialist approach to communism and instead seeks to enforce a military dictatorship in which one individual given unlimited authority to represent the will and interests of the proletariat, with the core justification that anything and everything can be justified for the sake of the greater good of the people without qualification. In practice it's just a brutal dictatorship in which mass killings are commonplace and institutional, and where the very concept of racial or ethnic identity are rejected, because the only identity that matters is loyalty to the supreme leader.
Anonymous (ID: 1nvg4hCf) Germany No.516664972
>>516659698
Obviously right-wing. Socialism is so poorly defined that the term doesn't mean anything anymore.
NatSoc is "abolish class and replace it with race and the state as long as it is convenient".
Stalinism is "abolish class and replace it with the all-knowing state which is really just a bunch of aristocrats".
Both are authoritarian doctrines with slightly varying economic policies.
Anonymous (ID: BFS42J4y) United States No.516665002
>>516664862
We get your point. Do a compare and contrast with the American school of economics.
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516665044
Giovanni Gentile:
>That Leader advances, secure, surrounded in an aura of myth, almost a person chosen by the Deity, tireless and infallible, an instrument employed by Providence to create a new civilization.

Giovanni Gentile:
>So that the thought & will of the solitary person, the Duce, becomes the thought and will of the masses.

Mussolini in A Diary of the Will (1927):
>Yes. The State is that unitary expression, absolute will, of the power and of the consciousness of the Nation
>This executive power–is the sovereign power of the Nation. The supreme head is the King

Then Mussolini on his leadership doctrine for Fascist party members:
>Because in the subordination of all to the will of a Leader, which is not a capricious will, but a seriously meditative will, & proven by deeds, Fascism has found its strength.
>There should be no limits. We must obey even if the Leader asks too much.
Anonymous (ID: kFYzlA/I) Canada No.516665060 >>516665939
This is genuinely one of the better threads I’ve seen on /pol/ post-2020. Although im sure a thread talking about Marxism/Leninism/Stalinism in more civilized manners would be shitposted to death by faceberg boomers.
But yeah I do agree that communism and fascism definitely do take a lot of influence in their solutions from Hobbes, although I find fascism seems to go more tribalistic in a way that appeals to realists while communism eventually does similar things (even though common ownership basically means state ownership of 10 times out of 10) but with the focus of tearing down tribalism and merging the people and the sovereign into one entity almost, in a way, aiming for Athenian democracy but missing the mark every time.
Anonymous (ID: PNbF4ISJ) No.516665172
>>516658600 (OP)
Fascism: nationalist dictatorship
NatSoc: nationalist and socialist dictatorship
Stalinism: socialist dictatorship
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516665325
Plato on Leader principle:
>The great principle of all is that no one of either sex should be without a commander; nor should the mind of any one be accustomed to do anything, either in jest or earnest, of his own motion, but in war and in peace he should look to and follow his leader, even in the least things being under his guidance; for example, he should stand or move, or exercise, or wash, or take his meals, or get up in the night to keep guard and deliver messages when he is bidden; and in the hour of danger he should not pursue and not retreat except by order of his superior; and in a word, not teach the soul or accustom her to know or understand how to do anything apart from others. Of all soldiers the life should be always and in all things as far as possible in common and together; there neither is nor ever will be a higher, or better, or more scientific principle than this for the attainment of salvation and victory in war. And we ought in time of peace from youth upwards to practise this habit of commanding others, and of being commanded by other.
Anonymous (ID: HKTR7PJn) United Kingdom No.516665404
>>516660978
>Monarchy is more left wing than liberalism according to your definition
Anonymous (ID: XWrPtomL) France No.516665577
NS is picrel. Fascism from what I've gleaned is mostly a less-refined version of NS, the core principle being that economic activity must be justified to the State aka no degeneracy or jewish schemes like usury, if your way of making money is against the interests of the Nation (and in NS, against those of the Volk), then it's simply not allowed. It's hilariously enough exactly what people have in mind when they keep talking about "reasonable capitalism", it's the middle ground where you have the freedom to earn your money and go up in the world as much as you wish, but not if it's by fucking over your neighbor on purpose.

Stalinism is a meme, communism in itself is a childish tamper tantrum created by jews ("there are flaws with X? Ban X!!!!") that rejects money just like anarchists reject the notion of government. Instead of realizing that those things happen organically and are necessary and trying to fix the flaw, they try to throw away the baby with the bathwater. Stalin reeled back commie ideology and made it more nationalist because he wasn't completely insane like Trotsky who believed in eternal terrorism until the whole planet converted. Stalin simply enslaved everyone to make armaments for decades so the State could get strong, by doing that he also caught up to the industrial state of all other countries Russia was heavily lagging behind for more than a century.

Stalin didn't have any actual economic ideology, he was just a tyrant who culled the most retarded parts of communism out of pragmatism while pretending he was still a commie, he enslaved everyone because he just wanted to and that was easier than convincing people or making up something more humane, he created a cult of personality because of ego (he was the party's little bitch secretary before and hated that, he needed revenge), and he made the nation strong to protect his own tyranny which worked since he reigned for a long time.
Anonymous (ID: 21AjC88v) United Kingdom No.516665773
>>516658600 (OP)
Fascism is when Marxism right but class not over come nation. So by implication, corporate state food, rich man your comrade.

National socialism think Marxism bad, Jewish conspiracy, protocols of Zion real, syndicalism and limited corporate state and guild system careful not to go too far as it could be Jewish trick. Also central banking very bad, government must do that


Stalinism is when Marxism good but don't it in own country first. Wonder why a plan to destroy the goy is doing that.
Never mind, lets pretend we send probe to Venus. We superpower.
Anonymous (ID: XWrPtomL) France No.516665886
>>516661651
> Also, didnt a lot or communist defect to the nazi party as well?
It's a mistake in the first place to believe that because people call themselves something, they actually know what that entails. Most "commies" who weren't the jewish leaders were just ignorant proletariat rightfully seething at the capitalist elite exploiting them. They wanted better work conditions and decent pay, and the commies loudly claimed they wanted this too, tricking the people.

When the NS got in power, in a matter of months the proletariat "commies" realized that they got everything they ever wanted in this regime, so they stopped identifying with commies and instead joined NS.

Communism is a meme ideology that should never be taken seriously, it's literally nothing more than a jewish plot to establish a genocidal jewish tyranny by using the rightful anger of the proletariat. The only "similarity" between commie and NS is that they both claim they're for the people, but only the latter is telling the truth.
Anonymous (ID: nd/XQLuF) Germany No.516665903
It's all left wing extremism born from Marxism and later shaped in their own way.
Tortellini was a writer for a Marxist paper and Hitler was an agent to undermine nationalist parties in Germany.
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516665939
>>516665060
They take a lot of their influence on Plato's Republic & Plato's Laws.
Plato's Republic is where the unitary politics comes in -- contrasted with the political pluralism / "partnership of clans" of Aristotle.
Aristotle says the State is a plurality, Plato a unity.
Book 5 of Plato's Republic goes in-depth about this with a community of pleasures and pains.
...
Plato Republic:
>This, then, Glaucon, is the manner of the community of wives and children among the guardians. That it is consistent with the rest of our polity and by far the best way is the next point that we must get confirmed by the argument. Is not that so?” “It is, indeed,” he said. “Is not the logical first step towards such an agreement to ask ourselves what we could name as the greatest good for the constitution of a state and the proper aim of a lawgiver in his legislation, and what would be the greatest evil, and then to consider whether the proposals we have just set forth fit into the footprints105 of the good and do not suit those of the evil?” “By all means,” he said.

>“Do we know of any greater evil for a state than the thing that divides it and makes it many instead of one, or a greater good than that which binds it together and makes it one?”

>“We do not.”

>“Is not, then, the community of pleasure and pain the tie that binds, when, so far as may be, all the citizens rejoice and grieve alike at the same births and deaths?”

>“But the individualization of these feelings is a dissolvent, when some grieve exceedingly and others rejoice at the same happenings to the city and its inhabitants?” “Of course.” “And the chief cause of this is when the citizens do not utter in unison such words as ‘mine’ and ‘not mine,’ and similarly with regard to the word ‘alien’?

>“Precisely so.”

>“That city, then, is best ordered in which the greatest number use the expression ‘mine’ and ‘not mine’ of the same things in the same way.”
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516666324
Plato State Corporatism / Unitary Policy:
State like an individual man (from Republic).
>And the city whose state is most like that of an individual man.

>For example, if the finger of one of us is wounded, the entire community of bodily connections stretching to the soul for ‘integration’

>with the dominant part is made aware, and all of it feels the pain as a whole, though it is a part that suffers, and that is how we come to say that the man has a pain in his finger. And for any other member of the man the same statement holds, alike for a part that labors in pain or is eased by pleasure.”

>“The same,” he said, “and, to return to your question, the best governed state most nearly resembles such an organism.”

>That is the kind of a state, [462e] then, I presume, that, when anyone of the citizens suffers aught of good or evil, will be most likely to speak of the part that suffers as its own and will share the pleasure or the pain as a whole.” “Inevitably,” he said, “if it is well governed.”

>But we further agreed that this unity is the greatest blessing for a state, and we compared a well governed state to the human body in its relation to the pleasure and pain of its parts.”
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516666689
>“But the individualization of these feelings is a dissolvent, when some grieve exceedingly and others rejoice at the same happenings to the city and its inhabitants?” “Of course.” “And the chief cause of this is when the citizens do not utter in unison such words as ‘mine’ and ‘not mine,’ and similarly with regard to the word ‘alien’?

>“Precisely so.”

>“That city, then, is best ordered in which the greatest number use the expression ‘mine’ and ‘not mine’ of the same things in the same way.”

Plato believes that disunity is the root of the problem and when people don't use the terms 'mine' and 'thine' in the same way -- 'mine' and 'thine' have to be in accord.
...
If you look at this face of Mussolini on the build, it is surrounded by SI, SI, SI, SI, SI.
That is as if to say "MINE, MINE, MINE, MINE, MINE" -- Fascism makes a community of pleasures and pains, brings people into an accord.
...The same idea with a community of pleasures and pains is present in National Socialism -- Natsoc doesn't abolish private property or a community of wives and children like Plato suggests, but it is about diverse properties of persons as so-called races that aren't aligned as "mine" and "thine" -- so multiculturalism / multi-races destroys a community of pleasures and pains.
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516667006
Hobbes: The Generation Of A Common-wealth
>The only way to erect such a Common Power, as may be able to defend them from the invasion of Foreigners, and the injuries of one another, and thereby to secure them in such sort, as that by their own industry, and by the fruits of the Earth, they may nourish themselves and live contentedly; is, to confer all their power and strength upon one Man, or upon one Assembly of men, that may reduce all their Wills, by plurality of voices, unto one Will: which is as much as to say, to appoint one man, or Assembly of men, to bear their Person; and every one to own, and acknowledge himself to be Author of whatsoever he that so bears their Person, shall Act, or cause to be Acted, in those things which concern the Common Peace and Safety; and therein to submit their Wills, every one to his Will, and their Judgements, to his Judgment.

>This is more than Consent, or Concord; it is a real Unity of them all, in one and the same Person, made by Covenant of every man with every man, in such manner, as if every man should say to every man, “I Authorize and give up my Right of Governing my self, to this Man, or to this Assembly of men, on this condition, that thou give up thy Right to him, and Authorize all his Actions in like manner.”

Notice, a plurality of voices unto one Will (like that Mussolini picture, Si, si, si, si).
This is more than consent or concord, Hobbes says, but the real Unity of them all in one and the same Person.

>This done, the Multitude so united in one Person, is called a COMMONWEALTH, in latin CIVITAS. This is the Generation of that great LEVIATHAN, or rather (to speak more reverently) of that Mortall God, to which we owe under the Immortall God, our peace and defence.
Anonymous (ID: JKRDXHTf) United States No.516667131 >>516667201
To the left being told no is facism...
Anonymous (ID: wAybY8WM) France No.516667201
>>516667131
Your mother told me no so I raped her fascist ass
Anonymous (ID: +ZhMTBlf) United States No.516667269
Hobbes: A Multitude Of Men, How One Person
>A Multitude of men, are made One Person, when they are by one man, or one Person, Represented; so that it be done with the consent of every one of that Multitude in particular. For it is the Unity of the Representer, not the Unity of the Represented, that maketh the Person One. And it is the Representer that beareth the Person, and but one Person: And Unity, cannot otherwise be understood in Multitude.

Hobbes: For it is the Unity of the Representer
>For it is the Unity of the Representer, not the Unity of the Represented, that maketh the Person One.
>And Unity, cannot otherwise be understood in Multitude.

Now Fascism is not liberal or materialist or nominalist like Hobbes' philosophy, but what I list here from Hobbes' Leviathan is definitely important in this context: because Fascism has attributes from Liberalism and from Socialism, Giovanni Genitle calling himself a Liberal and Leninist hybrid (because Leninism also helped advance the one-party state).
Anonymous (ID: 103d434F) United States No.516667385 >>516667545
This term literally only makes sense in the context of 1930s geopolitics, so sick of it
Anonymous (ID: wAybY8WM) France No.516667545
>>516667385
Yeah but there isn't a better word yet that captures this romantic aesthetic
Anonymous (ID: SAjMDOnq) United States No.516667656 >>516668016
>>516658600 (OP)
National socialism and Fascism only really differ economically where fascism us more collective, national socialism still utilizes a more individualist mindset economy wise vs fascism
Stalinism was borderline Russian national socialism
The only difference was economics and ultimately “the Soviet spirit” was essentially equal to the philosophy of “the German aryan”
Only one slight difference was that the Soviet spirit focused on a more collective approach in the arts, sciences, and industry
Where as the German aryan worker was more racially conscious
Ultimately Stalin realized Russia needed a supremacy pyramid scale just like Germany
Also he gave up on trying to redeem Jews and turn them into productive citizens comparing them to savages and parasites who should just be sent east as they refuse to become Soviets but rather remain tribalistic vultures
Anonymous (ID: nd/XQLuF) Germany No.516668016
>>516667656
Hitler and Stalin were actual all powerful gods in their nation and could do whatever they wanted. While Tortellini was weak and had to get approval of his King, the giant industrialists, the Mafia ruling much of the south and his Party before he could do anything. He was more busy getting their approvals than actually fixing and doing things. Really not easy for him.
Anonymous (ID: IhOJy206) Netherlands No.516668743
>>516658600 (OP)
facism
society ruled by a non political elite ruled an emperor, basicly inspired vy the roman empire

natsoc
society ruled by a political elite ruled by a democratic chosen state man. which thinks other countries/race are inferior. based on the napolean empire
Anonymous (ID: 6lPKrbvN) Germany No.516669053 >>516669283
>>516658766
>state and corporate power
This is a translation error.
Anonymous (ID: PmtYvXzv) United States No.516669283
>>516658766
>>516669053

Corporate power was never a big part of Nazism. The nazis had a vague closed market protectionist economy where private companies would compete for exclusive government contracts vut it wasnt fair free market competition. You were pitching to the State rather than making a product the people and market would want
Anonymous (ID: iJjnTAyG) Italy No.516669345
>>516658600 (OP)
I don't know but I'd rather live in fascist Italy than whatever this is
Anonymous (ID: J8XnxU39) Switzerland No.516669411
>>516658600 (OP)
>Can someone explain what is Fascism?
Everything is part of a (possibly healthy) state.
Power and hierarchy dominate.
Anonymous (ID: J8XnxU39) Switzerland No.516669463
>>516658659
>They're all meme ideologies now.
>He doesn't know
Anonymous (ID: J8XnxU39) Switzerland No.516669595
>>516658766
Here comes the retarded leftist.
Congratulations for being a moron.
Anonymous (ID: xgm94g7J) United States No.516669693
>>516659926
I was hoping you wouldn't be gay, but i guess we're both disappointed, eh son?
Anonymous (ID: /MXdhLSS) United States No.516669774
>>516658600 (OP)
Antifa is fascism
Anonymous (ID: /UWGVSWS) Hungary No.516669778
>>516658600 (OP)
Fascism when state works with capitalist to better life condition of the whole county.
National-Socialism when State is in control of a country's industry and it's works on have the worker strata of a specific nationality a better life conditions.
Stalinism when the state is a mafia.
Anonymous (ID: BiC1yTnm) Canada No.516669838
>>516658600 (OP)
Fascism is the merger of public (state) and private (corporate) power within a polity. National Socialism did not differ, except that it allowed for the nominal control of private power so long as they were loyal to the state. Stalinism was fascism, "war communism" is fascism without the private power left to co-opt as it has already been co-opted.
Anonymous (ID: BiC1yTnm) Canada No.516670345
>>516660632
Fascism is inherently socialist, there is no liberty under fascism.
Anonymous (ID: BiC1yTnm) Canada No.516670411
>>516661222
The Horseshoe is much truer than the binary spectrum.
Anonymous (ID: 2N5Y5OLq) United States No.516670505
>>516658600 (OP)
fascist and nazi are just dog whistles for leftist violence now
stalinism is what cuckservatives rant about when they're getting bullied by democrats, but they don't ever do anything about it.
Anonymous (ID: S8rSxwc7) No.516671161
>>516658600 (OP)
>Can someone explain what is Fascism?
>How does National Socialism differ?
>How do those differ from Stalinism?

lurk moar, newfag