Thread 518935783

>NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte:

>As NATO, we are 25 times bigger than the Russian economy. Our military is infinitely superior to the Russian military. When it comes to our Air Force, I mean, the Russians cannot even stand in the shadow with these MiG-31s or whatever they call them, because they're not well-trained fighter pilots.

>if we shot down Russian planes in NATO skies, we would be weak.

https://x.com/DD_Geopolitics/status/1978037307379692019
https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1978037230766534995

All of it sounds very weird, delicatelly speaking. All this chest-thumping about GDP was already questioned as Russia alone produces multiple times more drones than entire NATO bloc, and massive drone swarms are crucial in modern battlefield. Production output of weapon/ammo of NATO didnt change much in 3.5 years of war in Ukraine.

I am not exactly sure about superiority of NATO in light of first NATO-Russia air battle over Poland that happened a month ago. 21 Russian decoy drones violated our airspace. They were supposed to be neutralized by systems that were online back then: F-35, F-16, AWACS, and Patriot batteries. No drone was shot down, we were finding them all over Poland in perfect condition after they landed on fields and elsewhere. One of AMRAAM missiles launched by a Dutch F-35 hit a house of a Polish farmer and it was the only object destroyed by this NATO defence operation xD

But this statement about NATO tolerance for Russian airspace violations being a sign of strenght is so idiotic that i cant even comment it. So who is supposed to shoot down Russian planes? Preferably Poland alone in the "Coallition of the Willing", outside of NATO guarantees, so if Russia retaliates, it would be only Polands problem?

I have a feeling that NATO is disintegrating on our eyes right now.

>>518935783 (OP)
>As NATO, we are 25 times bigger than the Russian economy

yet North Korea supplied more artillery shells than all of NATO combined, emberassing

>>518935783 (OP)
Produce 1 round of ammo in Europe: cost 25$
Produce 1 round of ammo in Russia: cost 1$

See our economy is 25 times bigger!

>>518935783 (OP)
Even Denys commented this and he was not happy. (timestamp)
https://youtu.be/ZQVKQWosRIQ?t=1374

Schrodinger's Russia.

It's it both a huge threat, and ridiculously weak.

>>518935783 (OP)
lets make an easy comparision:
How much does it cost the Russian army to buy a screw-driver?
How much does the same costs nato?
If it is less than 25 times what the Russiana pay, then they will lose.

>>518940494
*more

the only question is
can puttler put a fight against NATO?

>>518935783 (OP)
Ductape a camera on Rutte and drop him off on the Ukrainian front. Livestream his journey. It would be the peak comedy of the year.

I hope the NATO knows of the prevalence of muslims in the russian military, and that they are now using the muslims in europe to try and destabilize and sabotage Europe.

>>518935783 (OP)
> All of it sounds very weird, delicatelly speaking
It’s not weird, what you’re observing are the dying cries of a dying alliance

>>518935783 (OP)
>MiG-31s or whatever they call them
Cant even identify enemy planes.
Weak mind

>The Mikoyan MiG-31 has an estimated cost of around $33.2 million per unit

>The unit cost for the F-35 varies by variant, with the base model priced around $80 million and the more advanced F-35B variant costing approximately $109 million.

And the F35 tend to fall off carriers

>>518944378
>>518944506
The guy is an idiot. No current USAF plane matches MiG-31 niche as a pure interceptor. MiG-31 is faster, higher-flying, and more specialized for long-range interception with superior missile range and radar
to F-15C Eagle.

>>518944378
>>518944506
The guy is an idiot. No current USAF plane matches MiG-31 niche as a pure interceptor. MiG-31 is faster, higher-flying, and more specialized for long-range interception with superior missile range and radar than F-15C Eagle.

>>518945961
Really doesnt matter if the nato pilot is a woman. Slower reaction time.
Danica Patrick was the best woman driver on earth at one point and all men still had to babysit her on the track and compensate for her mistakes.

>>518945961
what's is the mig gonna intercept if it gets blown up by an F35 in BVR engagements?

>>518944378
Just typical effeminate globohomo snark. He knows the name of every enemy plane.

>>518946290
MiG-31 has advantage over F-35 in BVR engagments.

>>518946572
nah not really

>>518946677
Yes, really.

>>518946715
believe what you wanna believe buddy

>>518947397
Entire theoretical superiority of F-35 over MiG-31 is assumption that MiG-31 fails to detect F-35 due to stealth and despite using missiles with much longer range and PESA radar, it can do nothing. I think it might be an overstatement.

>>518935783 (OP)
GDP is a poor metric for heavily financialized economies, because so much of it is extractive with no real value added.

>>518945961
>>518946572
Speed and service ceiling aren’t as important as you think. Neither is the optimal/maximal range of some radar or missile. Planes like the F-35, Typhoon, Rafale or Gripen have been developed with the MiG-31 in mind. The MiG-31 was very good in the 80s now it isn’t really that good anymore.

>>518947963
Russians would use S-400/500 as prime F-35 killers in combat scenario, not planes. They would also use aerial "picketing". They would use older, non-stealthy aircraft like MiG-31 or Su-35 as forward "sensors" networked to SAM sites or to a Su-57 lurking behind them. The "picketing" aircraft would attempt to detect F-35, then pass the data to a platform that can launch a missile without revealing its own position.

>>518948268
>Russians would use S-400/500 as prime F-35 killers

You mean those same systems that failed to shoot down any israeli jets in god knows how many strikes they did on countries supplied with them. Drop your fucking VPN HIVan

If NATO could do anything they would.

>>518935783 (OP)
>All of it sounds very weird, delicatelly speaking. All this chest-thumping about GDP was already questioned as Russia alone produces multiple times more drones than entire NATO bloc,
This just the artillery cope all over again. Drones have an abnormal importance on the ukranian battlefield because of the circumstances of this particular war. Drones are useful but going full retard on them would be a great example of "arming to fight the last war."

>>518935783 (OP)
The world is collectively brainstorming on how to abandon Poland on its own to be the next wave to the meatgrinder. All without looking like a bunch of backstabbing pussies.

They will find every excuse ever to not be in a war with Russia.

>>518937373
Even after 3 years they're still nowhere near to Russias artillery round capacity either and natos cost per shell is probably ludicrous.

>>518948521
Israeli operations are complex pre-planned strikes, not a peer-conflict test of S-300. They use extensive electronic warfare, standoff missiles and detailed intelligence to suppress and bypass air defenses, often targeting specific areas not covered by Russian systems. Meanwhile S-400 was never fully integrated or authorized to engage by Russia as its purpose is to protect Russian assets, not Syrian/Iranian/whatever airspace. Besides Netanyahu visited Moscow like a dozen times and he was licking Putin ass in effort to switch off old legacy Russian AA systems in Middle East so Israeli F-35 werent damaged by them

>>518948521
Funny how you are a lying a piece of shit and a proven shill yet you accuse somebody speaking honest opinions of being Russia
Do you troons have any shame
Syria didnt even have S 400s.

>https://www.forbes.com/sites/pauliddon/2024/12/23/with-s-400s-out-russias-days-of-controlling-syrias-airspace-are-over/

>>518948268
Interesting plan. Not exactly what the Russians would try, but not too far from it. What you also have to factor in, air born radars are vastly superior to ground based radars. Russians also lack the communication and data sharing abilities, which enable these quick kill chains using assets, which are hiding and don’t activate any systems which could give their position away in combination with air born radars. They stand no chance. They are fighting the war of the last century.

Russia is a chinese proxy army now. Fighting russia is really fighting china, at a distance

NATO is an industrial billionaire front full of wealthy jew backers that used pawns like Hillary Clinton.

>>518935783 (OP)
the reality is you can fairly easily manage the Russians with the price of a barrel of oil, it is that easy to manage Putin

>>518948943
Russians have tools for an effective decimation of F-35. A-100 Premier AWACS, a modern and very powerful AESA radar plane for airborne command and control. Russians have tools of network-centric warfare, S-400/S-500 and Su-57 are built to share data in real-time via secure datalinks like Polyot-SU and create a unified air defense picture. Russians use multi-domain sensors too. They integrate ground-based VHF radars like Nebo-M to detect stealth and space-based early warning to close the "hiding" gap.

>>518948695
russia's biggest threat is China, there will be no hot war in anything but former ussr colonies. Russia and China have a much larger beef, pun intended, for acquiring farmland

>>518949290
>A-100 Premier AWACS
Not in service. Project likely suspended. Also Russian statements are not to be believed unless proven otherwise.
>Russia tries to establish capabilities with regards to communication and situational awareness
And is not very successful
>Su-57
>S-500
Let’s give them another twenty years until serious integration. Impressive how the Su-54 have been able to establish air superiority in Ukraine.
>Nebo-M
They have really proven themselves in Crimea.
>space based
The only thing space based are Putins ideas.

>>518949360
You're retarded if you think chinks are going to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of men and military equipment to take over siberian land that's pretty much worthless. Taking back Taiwan is a much bigger priority for them

>>518950075
>Su-54 have been

please special take notice

https://www.youtube.com/live/ZjmGydpfPOw

>>518950075
If NATO is as powerful as it describes itself, maybe it should defeat Russia in a series of brilliant operations instead of turning Poland and Baltic states into Ukraine 2.0 in naive hope that scaled attrition war would somehow weaken Russia?

>>518950110
no you nonce, taiwan will not be taken by force, they cant even operate the fabs, Taiwan is the long haul to turn the youth, imagine believing pentagon talking points.
No nonce, the reason Russia is in ukraine is it is too poor to develo Siberia, a non issue for the Chinese. The chinks can not feed themselves and have a geopolitical entanglement in the western hemishere that is not sustainable. Only a call of duty autistic controller player would think war is sending in thousands of troops to die. China will rape the russians with favorable fuel deals first. Not a chance in hell Taiwan is a bigger priority then farmland for China. Why the fuck would the chinks disrupt the entire worlds semi conductor industry? Think for ffs. IT IS ALL ABOUT FARMLAND

>>518950150
Su-57^^

>>518935783 (OP)
They're lying. They stole all the money and probably sold parts from military equipment like Russians.

>>518950248
>but why is NATO not as aggressive and unhinged like Russia
Because it‘s a collective of democratic nations. Most of them are simply not aggressive and will only respond, if there is a direct and credible attack.

>>518950639
no one wants to engage russia bc any land gains, include having dirty russians living there. The only two nations that can assimilate that is USA and China, and USA is not there. The only people who will eye up Russian land and believe they can assimilate the conquered populace are the chinese or pipe dreams from poland. Not a single EU member wants land with russians on it

>>518935783 (OP)
Rutte was an HR worker in an insurance company before he was selected to be a politician.
As that politician he has successfully failed to improve the Netherlands as intended.
He's responsible for the disastrous covid measures here and directly accountable for all the deaths that lockdowns and jabs caused.

But much more critically, Rutte has 0 military experience.
He's a puppet on a string. A mouthpiece. He wasn't even a good politician.

>>518950639
>NATO
>Not aggresive
Except for Iran, Afganistan, Libya, Syria, Gaza, Yemen, and Ukraine. Other than the millions of innocent civillians killed in these countries they are totally not agressive!
Faggot

>>518951421
Well most of the things listed there were not a majority of the countries. Afghanistan was because of a perceived direct attack on the US hence the NATO response.
Ukraine was not invaded or targeted by NATO forces.
But yes you are kind of correct the US is an empire (like China or Russia) and France/Britain kind of are it definitely does distinguish them a little bit from the rest of NATO.

>>518952646
>France/Britain
I want to also ad Turkey

>>518948521
>failed to shoot down any israeli jets
You mean the israeli jets that never once violated Iranian airspace even before any S-400s showed up in the country? Why do you think that was?

>>518950978
Yea. Beyond that I doubt Europe truly wants a collapse of the Russian empire. Weaken it, but quite certainly not to the point where some kind of post Russian chaos is unfolding.

>>518952775
There is no S-400 in Iran

>>518952646
>NATO not targeting
They have been using NATO systems to target long range attacks this entire war. They just built a new missile command center in Germany.
How many sattellites does ukraine have again?

>https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/nato-command-germany-assist-ukraine-is-up-running-says-rutte-2024-12-18/

>>518952867
i agree, its about farmland and livestock feed and grains. In my assesment, have no problem being wrong either, limit Russia's sea access, control wheat and some of the best soil on earth. Livestock feed is basically running world geopolitics right now, not Ai. See China and USA filteredwordbeans

>>518935783 (OP)
>these MiG-31s or whatever they call them
kek what a pissy bitch

.

>>518948798
Oh, its way worse than you think

>>518953409
Wrong
25% of all corn in ukraine was used for biofuel. The Paris Accords have that fuel tax that goes to global consorsiums that farm and corn is an easy crop for robotic equipment. Plus they had that biofuel grain they were trying to sell (they use illegal pestacides because its not for human consumption). Thats why 1/3 of ukraines farmland has been sold to glomohomo.

Haha what a fucking false retard

Guy doesn't know what hes talking about kike marionett

fucking poupé

>>518956357
NATO 155MM is $6000
Russian 153mm $600

>>518940341
Poland is Schrodingers cat to the aliens

>>518935783 (OP)
>As NATO, we are 25 times bigger than the Russian economy
Is NATO's entire economy weapons and progressive ideology?

>>518956616
That sounds like a very old figure, and it depends entirely on what type of round it is. You might think only a small percentage of US rounds are the $100k wunderwaffen guided missiles, and youd be wrong. For a time the standing doctrine was to ONLY use excaliburs.

>>518956848
With 25 times the debt
Wait till eurotrashies find out all thier pension funds were "lent" to ukraine.

>>518957124
Naw there are sources. These are the standard rounds

>>518957275
Feel free to post any of them

>Russia pokes any of the NATO states
>NATO closes the Danish and Bosporus straits for Russia (legally, when Article 5 is evoked) and 2 month countdown starts to Russian socieconomic collapse
whats the plan now?

>>518957124
The $6000 number I saw included shipping them to ukraine.

>The average cost for a 155mm artillery shell is around $5,000, with the U.S. M795 high explosive shell costing approximately $3,000. However, advanced guided shells like the Excalibur can cost about $100,000 each due to higher maintenance and operational costs.

>>518957390
Lazy cunt
This says 3k

>https://www.defenseone.com/business/2024/04/goal-100k-artillery-shells-month-sight-army-says/396047/

>>518935783 (OP)
Almost as if gdp is a reflection of amount of credit, printed / made up currency and all kind of debts rather than actual size of production or services.

>>518957590
Now post the actualized cost not the bid

>>518945961
Yes but can an 8 month pregnant woman fit in the cockpit to fly a sortie in a mig 31? No I didn't think so, so really we're winning and Russia is losing, got it? Now while you think I may be joking, when that crooked whore from the EU was German defence minister, they required that apcs be accessable by pregnant soldiers in full combat dress.

>>518948798
Salaries alone are like 4-5x Russia's. A production price of 9-12x that of Russia's is realistic.

>>518957699
NYPA faggot

Ukraine, while already in a war in 2014 was able to turn itself into a war economy realy quick while their citizens in the west of the country still live somewhat comfortably. You have to be stupid to think Russia would want/win any conflict event with only the EU. Ukraine is already a massive embarassment for them on the world stage.

>>518958624
>Ukraine is already a massive embarassment for them on the world stage.
Said the faggot walking around in womens clothes

>>518953083
>they just build missile command centers in Germany
Makes sense in case Russia tries something stupid.
>speculations about them using NATO systems
And that doesn’t mean NATO is at war or attacking Ukraine. Sharing information between states isn’t something special.
>Ukraine has no satellites
The hole satellite stuff is just a huge cope Russia has them and zero battlefield awareness. NATO has them and still uses planes/drones for basically everything meaningful. Some vague images many hours or usually days afterwards.
>but muh HD live surveillance
Cool story

>>518959456
Thanks for proving you are a nato tranny faggot paid to be here

>https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/ukrainian_patriots_f_16s_and_mirages_to_join_natos_military_wi_fi_network_via_link_16_integration-14708.html

>>518959694
>not a single argument ad rem
I‘m disappointed even you can do better

>>518959694
What? Do you mean NATO was supporting Ukraine all along? Because it's in their interest? No way thank Yukuyama

>>518959694
Well I will contribute to your education since you are clearly not familiar with military matters.
> NATO systems to target long range attacks this entire war
The F-16 in Ukraine aren’t used for any „long range attacks“ in Russia as of yet. They don’t have the ammunition for that. And obviously not the sensors.

>>518956357
Kek and Russia just jams those now so they're useless.

GDP is such fucking meme. The whole fucking thing is complete nonsense at its core. Who the fuck decided that monetary value is more important than actual usefulness and quantity of goods or services?
>>518958624
>while their citizens in the west of the country still live somewhat comfortably
It was still Ukraine with literally everyone except pedophiles, drug dealers and Nazis wanting to leave the country
>Ukraine is already a massive embarassment for them on the world stage
This is just propaganda to reassure you. It vastly underestimates Ukraine's strength. Even without all the help they were one of the strongest countries in Europe not to mention all the support they received. Now they basically owe more than their entire country is worth. Any other country in the Baltic region and perhaps even in Europe would have fallen long ago even with all this support. Ukraine is like both Koreas or Israel, small countries but because of the war that has been going on for years they are much more capable of fighting than bigger countries

>>518935783 (OP)
>Big GDP
>A huge share of it is service industry, tourism, etc
>Inferior manufacturing capacity
>Smaller stores of natural resources
>No self reliant power sector
Rutte is a compulsive liar and a sociopath, he's always been full of shit and a personal pet of Klaus Schwab.

>>518960025
>The F-16 in Ukraine aren’t used for any „long range attacks“ in Russia as of yet.
The F-16 in Ukraine got blown up on arrival.
Sorry buddy, you will have to wait two more weeks for these ""ammunitions"" to arrive.

>>518960025
You talk like a little bitch fag boy.
So how did they take out those bombers?

You know the ones that were out in the open to be counted according to the START treaty. Only troons who are shilling for WW3 could make excuses for trying to end the world.

>>518960221
>GDP is such fucking meme
Well it’s misleading. But whatever the vast majority of Russia is indeed worse than the GDP would indicate. Especially since most of the stuff is owned by a few oligarchs. And the only regions with somewhat close to western standards are St. Petersburg and Moscow.
>Everyone wants to leave Ukraine
Cool story
>Ukraine is so strong
Well. They aren’t weak. Obviously Putin did vastly underestimate them and vastly overestimate Russia.
>any other country would have fallen
>perhaps at least one of these very small countries in the Baltics
Speed of of copes and shifting the goal post is really fast in case this shill.

>>518935783 (OP)
> I have a feeling that NATO is disintegrating on our eyes right now.

A welcome development

>>518935783 (OP)
>appear strong when you're weak.

>>518960771
>more globohomo losing cope

I love waking up, drinking my coffee and reading this kind of cope.

>>518960864
>the goyim are noticing how unbelievably shitty, jewed, fake and gay everything is
>quick, say the Sun Tzu line again! That’ll buy us two more weeks


Shalom

>>518960520
>The F-16 in Ukraine got blown up on arrival.
Interesting dreams. But as always with the stuff from Russia there is never any prove. And ironically your own people recently claimed they were attacked by F-16. It happened just a couple of days ago in the Pokrowsk direction. Perhaps they had a different dream.

>>518960221
Indeed i believe Russia would easely take moldova and the baltics but for the rest i really don't think so.
>This is just propaganda to reassure you
And this propaganda was massively effective all around the world. Before 2022 the normie tought Russia was comparable to the united states and China.

>>518961074
A Ukrainian pilot’s wife got in trouble because she posted a pic of an F-16 on social media and gave away its location. That was the first one that was destroyed, I remember it well. It was taken out on the ground on an airstrip. You globohomos lie so much, it’s extremely jewish

>>518948268
That shit don't work nigger give it up

There is a reason Russia is scrambling to refurbish thousands of cold war era defense systems and why the head of the company that made the s400 jumped out a window

>>518937373
i wish it was that stupid but it's GDP, the magic fiat economics of jewdom to project superiority where there is none

>>518961398
>That shit don’t work nigger give it up

What? The S-400 alone has performed extremely well throughout this entire war.

>>518958591
Thats not what that means kek

>>518961229
The claim was something entirely different. Ukraine has destroyed large amounts of Russian jets on the tarmac, but of course Russia did also destroy Ukrainian jets. But the Russian cope about all of them being gone is just more prove of them being completely delusional. Maybe these JDAMs and Hammers are just catapulting themselves into the air, in the mind of the Russian.

>>518960771
That's just insane levels of coping. Imagine claiming that ‘no one wanted to leave Ukraine’ when literally one of the main promises during the coup was that you could move to Europe without a visa
Does anyone have that ‘Western news about Ukraine before and after 2022’ picture? Not Nazis one, but one with corruption, living standards and the drug gateway to Europe
>>518961127
Before the war Germany, Italy, and UK were weaker than Ukraine, only France was maybe stronger than it. Not to mention that Ukraine was already basically a dictatorship before the war with all opposition parties completely banned, European countries would definitely face internal disagreements during the war, especially if it comes to kidnapping people off the streets like in Ukraine

>>518961398
Basically nothing after 1991 works.

>>518960924
Any argument? But I‘m glad you got some information about the reality and liked it.
>>518960706
>Russia wasn’t intelligent enough to move them properly
I doubt it. They just knew the locations with the supporting infrastructure and let drones out close to the facilities. Then they either flew through the facility manually or had programs with given search patterns and an auto lock, if targets are spotted, in case the connection was lost.

>>518961522
No it didnt

Dozens have been destroyed

>>518961913
Your claim now
>Imagine claiming that ‘no one wanted to leave Ukraine’ when literally one of the main promises during the coup was that you could move to Europe without a visa
Your claim before in >>518960221
>It was still Ukraine with literally everyone except pedophiles, drug dealers and Nazis wanting to leave the country
I‘m not even sure you do believe that stuff you are writing. At least not at the pace you are moving your goal posts.

>>518961398
s400 are above average but they still suck. In general anti-air systems in recent years have proven to be very ineffective regardless of the side.
>>518961957
There are also recordings of Patriots and Iron Dome being destroyed head-on, attacking means simply outclass the defensive ones at the moment. You really should hope that your government does not share your position and is working on new defensive measures like Russia and China.
>>518962249
Sorry anon, but that's literally common knowledge if you've been following Ukraine even a little bit since 2014. No one wanted to live in that shithole, it was like the worst part of Russia but life there costs as much as in the best parts of Europe.

>>518962249
Yes
With no elections in 6 years and 3 jews running everything it is the perfect example of the new style democratic freedom coming soon to an EU country near you.

>despite being 1% of the population....

Almost the entire country of Ukraine is without power: the cause is unknown, — monitors.

>>518962687
>Sorry anon, but that's literally common knowledge if you've been following Ukraine even a little bit since 2014.
In fact I knew about it before and hence knew about the economic, societal and political situation. Interestingly you didn’t mention that politicians/oligarchs and other actors with connections to Russia were bleeding the land dry.
>it was like the worst part of Russia
Nah, the conditions were better than in most parts of Russia with the usual St. Petersburg/Moscow and Sochi regions being amongst the rare exceptions.
>but life there costs as much as in the best parts of Europe.
You are clueless, in fact people left Europe and the US for Ukraine (especially those who could work online) because living costs were so cheap.

>>518963186
>Residents of Kiev should prepare for possible blackouts this winter by stocking up on supplies and warm clothes, Mayor Vitaly Klitschko warned on Tuesday, amid recurring Russian strikes on energy sites.

>Speaking to the Kiev24 broadcaster, Klitschko said the upcoming winter “will be difficult,” and urged citizens to plan ahead. “It is necessary to develop different scenarios, including the bad ones,” he added.

>He urged residents of the Ukrainian capital to “be ready, which means having a supply of water, a supply of food for emergency storage, warm clothes, that is, in case the situation that was last week can be repeated.”

>>518935783 (OP)
The European states don’t have powerful militaries, only the US does. It’s like saying the UN is hugely powerful. NATO isn’t even a real alliance, we’re not obligated to defend anything if we don’t feel like it. Let Latvians die.

>>518963302
>Interestingly you didn’t mention that politicians/oligarchs and other actors with connections to Russia were bleeding the land dry.

What disgusting lying faggot you are. The people of ukraine were getting a 30% discount on gas, that was huge for common folks. But that was bad buisness for Burisma.
>OY VEY all those oligarchs on energy boards who were US politicians kids and friends!
Paul Pelosi jr started the trend in 2013 then everyone got in on the scam

>>518963186
>>518963369
Russia is just trying to acclimatize them to the usual Russian standards. I still somehow doubt this will convince them.

Oy vey those russian oligarchs!

>https://nationalfile.com/exclusive-pelosi-jr-oil-company-employed-russians-to-influence-politicians/

Nancy Pelosi’s son Paul Pelosi Jr. was a board member of the energy company Viscoil Holdings and an executive at its related company NRGLab, which did energy business in Ukraine. House speaker Nancy Pelosi appeared with her son Paul in a promotional video which was released by NRGLab in 2013 on the same day the company promoted its new deal in Ukraine.

Now, newly unearthed records show that Viscoil employed Russians to establish “contacts with government officials and key players in the oil and gas industry,” and to cultivate a “network of prominent contacts including politicians, allowing company’s emergence into high-level political arena.”

Viscoil was registered to a Moscow-based Russian named Sergey Sorokin and David Strawn, a business partner of George W. Bush and Jeb Bush’s cousin John Ellis.

A spokesman for Nancy Pelosi has confirmed that Pelosi Jr. was a board member of Viscoil, and claimed in a vague statement that Viscoil folded and Pelosi Jr. was not involved with the re-constituted business entity. But actually, records reveal that Viscoil operated continuously at least from 2010-2013, and Pelosi Jr. was a well-documented executive of NRGLab, which absorbed Viscoil and its technology. The spokesman said that Viscoil was focused on U.S. business during Pelosi Jr.’s tenure, but records show Viscoil planning international business including in Brazil.

Cont

>Additionally, Pelosi Jr. traveled to Ukraine in 2017 to meet with Ukraine government officials, supposedly to discuss a “youth soccer” initiative. Pelosi Jr. was representing his company the Corporate Governance Initiative and he touted an endorsement from the World Sports Alliance, an accused diamond-mining scam which was run by his friend and associate Asa Saint Clair who has been charged by the Department of Justice for wire fraud in connection to the World Sports Alliances’ cryptocurrency scam.

>>518963716
>30 percent discount on gas is the only thing
What you did not understand is that this was just payment given in exchange for other official and unofficial benefits. And I never claimed there weren’t other people involved in screwing Ukraine. I still stick to my assessment that a lot of these people with shady deals in Ukraine had Russian connections.

China has the same corruption issue. Government will order a 1000 units.100 will be as advertised the other 900 will be pure slop

>>518935783 (OP)
>All of it sounds very weird, delicatelly speaking. All this chest-thumping about GDP was already questioned as Russia alone produces multiple times more drones than entire NATO bloc, and massive drone swarms are crucial in modern battlefield. Production output of weapon/ammo of NATO didnt change much in 3.5 years of war in Ukraine.
>I am not exactly sure about superiority of NATO in light of first NATO-Russia air battle over Poland that happened a month ago. 21 Russian decoy drones violated our airspace. They were supposed to be neutralized by systems that were online back then: F-35, F-16, AWACS, and Patriot batteries. No drone was shot down, we were finding them all over Poland in perfect condition after they landed on fields and elsewhere. One of AMRAAM missiles launched by a Dutch F-35 hit a house of a Polish farmer and it was the only object destroyed by this NATO defence operation xD
>But this statement about NATO tolerance for Russian airspace violations being a sign of strenght is so idiotic that i cant even comment it. So who is supposed to shoot down Russian planes? Preferably Poland alone in the "Coallition of the Willing", outside of NATO guarantees, so if Russia retaliates, it would be only Polands problem?
>I have a feeling that NATO is disintegrating on our eyes right now.

>>518947963
Even Denys Davydov is laughing to your reasoning and debunking it. See >>518939603

Economy /pib means jackshit can eu build as many cheap drones? No, they don't have slaves/cheap labour force like China and north korea. the eu has no factories, no bullets, all fantasy. Most of the EU are fag cowards; they have fancy toys, but they have the fuel for them? Without buying gas from Russia even now, indirectly they buy it way cheaper when you don't have resources...

>>518964808
Amazing how you faggot shills have an answer for everything

Nice words but Vlad's drones (Persian Shahed-136) are flying over NATO airspace without any issues.

nato hinges on america; if europe could fall behind one nation being the military leader with final say, like france or united kingdom, then europe would be a strong force militarily. but that won't happen, russia may be stronger than each nation individually, but a coordinated europe, russia would lose every single time, but getting europeans to bend the knee to one nation, to die for a different country far in the east, at the orders of a different nation, hard sell.

america having such a huge armed forces and being far away makes it very easy for them to be the leader; they're the strongest by far, but it also allows the europeans to not have to listen to each other; none of them would accept giving up control to each other, giving up control to america is much more palatable. it's nato's biggest strength, that america is so powerful that no one else compares.

which is why anyone who supports america leaving nato is a russian or chinese operative trying to destroy the western world.

>>518935783 (OP)
he's talking big using the US military to back him up. No so fast, faguet.

>>518937373
That's not how you count the impact.

Europe spent 0.29% of its economy on the war in Ukraine in 3 years
The USA spent 0.08% of its economy on the same
Russia spent 4.2% of its economy on the war.

Where does PPP factor into this, vatniks? Hm? :-)

>>518965516
>what is the NATO strategy with regards to these drones
The NATO strategy would be that within the first couple hours air defense/surveillance in certain corridors would have been destroyed, enemy command and control would be gone and air superiority would be achieved. At the same time strikes would be executed on all offensive ground based assets on duty. That’s rocket launchers, ships, but also drone bases on alert/on duty. In the next couple of days supply, off duty units and logistics would be destroyed and the places pumping out these drones or storing them would be gone. Basically NATO is not remotely like Ukraine. The calculations are entirely different. And no I don’t have access to secret information. It’s all in public texts and has been done. Stronger enemies just require more forces being dedicated.

>>518940494
dont know about screedrivers but toolbox in the west is like 60 USD even if you round it up to 100 USD and multiply it by rubel-usd rate it gives you like 8000 rubel if im not mistaken but here on video https://youtu.be/fWtcLzuIHqA?si=_F9o2iW9U8YAqVqa&t=3452
its not only over 10 000 rubel but even over 30 000 rubel

>>518966334
nah europeans will drop their weapons and join russians
their intel never failed

>>518966253
You pulled those numbers out of your ass you piece of shit shill. Half a trillion dollars printed for ukraine that caused inflation that wiped out 30% of all cash wealth in the west.
Good luck when EU citizens find out thier pension funds were "lent" to ukraine.

>>518966480
You escaped from your Ukraine along with millions of your countrymen. If you can be a draft dodger, why Europeans cant? xD

>>518965643
>Guy who knows little about the military
>me who got/read his first 1500 small letter DIN A 4 book on war at the age of shortly after my 8 eights birthday
He also wants a NATO response. Which he knows would decimate Russia. But here is why it won’t happen, since Putin isn’t that stupid. >>518966334
He doesn’t understand that war is very different depending on your capabilities. And so are the calculations of your engagement.

>>518961127
Russia is stronger militarily then either the US or China.

>>518966516
Nope. There is a spending tracker kept by a German institute called Kiel. Picrel.

And there are several estimations of how much Russia spent on the war so far. One was made by the Pentagon, at around 200bn dollar equivalent at the start of this year.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/war-and-conflicts/military/pentagon-estimates-russia-s-spending-on-war-against-ukraine-since-2022/ar-AA1vwxOp
If you add 71bn which is half of Russia's official defence budget for this year you get about 271bn dollar equivalent.

Do the calculations relative to nominal GDP in the last 3 years and you'll get those numbers.

>inb4 but who would trust pentazog's estimation
There's a similar one done by an economic institute in Copenhagen, but can't find it right now. I know I read the report some months ago.
The idea is the same, though, Russia actually spent quite close or even more in dollar/euro equivalent on the war, but relative to its economy it's close to 5% of its total economic output.

And that's because EU and US economies are not on a war footing. So of course they would manufacture more shit, that's what it's supposed to happen.

>>518966804
Sorry for phone posting I can’t read and correct the messages I‘m writing.

>>518935783 (OP)
>Mark Rutte says idiotic things.
Oh my child, you have so much more to discover.

>>518935783 (OP)
Rutte has no active memory anything he says.

>>518966940
Nobody cares about your fake numbers you cocksucking nafo troon.

169 Billion from the US
Your numbers are as fake and gay as you are

https://www.state.gov/bureau-of-political-military-affairs/releases/2025/01/u-s-security-cooperation-with-ukraine

To date, we have provided $66.9 billion in military assistance since Russia launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine on February 24, 2022, and approximately $69.7 billion in military assistance since Russia’s initial invasion of Ukraine in 2014. We have now used the emergency Presidential Drawdown Authority on 55 occasions since August 2021 to provide Ukraine military assistance totaling approximately $31.7 billion from DoD stockpiles.

>>518935783 (OP)
Who placed him as a head of NATO, and how much did he bribed his collegues to get the seat?

>>518967093
It’s a symbolic position anyway. And he his correct about his assessment of strength. Putin just does this nonsense in order to prevent weapons being given to Ukraine. He knows better than to step over the wrong borders in this case.
>all this would NATO intervene, if
Is kind of misleading. The troops are there and in quick reaction mode, hence amongst the first in the positions. Once it can be credibly proven that they deliberately went after NATO soldiers the debate is over. And Putin knows it.

>>518935783 (OP)
GDP is okay. Everyone loves easy shekel, especially Zelensky.

I find only weird that they kind of gather every year or so to talk about Russia?
>Russia is a paper tiger
>Fuck yes, she is
>Yeah, fuck Russia paper tiger
>TZD, fuck Russia
>Yeah, we should spend $500 billion
>Nah, that's not enough, fucking paper tiger needs more paper, let's do it $1 trillion
>Ok, fine! But Russia is a paper tiger
>this, definitely, TZD
>Did you see that gore video? Whatever. See ya next year to talk about the paper tiger
>See ya! Buy!

>>518967163
I mean, if that’s indeed something he said that should give Russia food for thought. If living under your countries rule is so horrible they are willing to fight even beyond where it makes sense.

>>518966718
pic very rel you mindless russian ape

>>518967919
In the end money is just energy and time. Of course the attitude is better be safe than sorry.

We're so close...Keep Nooticing

>>518966940
Nice valuable. I saw it sometime ago, but than forgot about it. Thanks.
>>518967337
The more crucial thing you are forgetting is that Russia is currently burning through their defense spending (budget) of roughly 60 years. Since they are pulling everything from their stocks, which is left. On top of it the Russian numbers. Well who knows. But what we do know is that things in Russia aren’t going great. And that’s to put it very mildly. If 50 percent of US regions would have recently experienced gasoline shortages chances are that the public pressure would have lead to the impeachment of Trump.

>>518967337
>169 Billion from the US
You didn't even understand what your own page says

>To date, we have provided $66.9 billion in military assistance since Russia launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine on February 24, 2022, and approximately $69.7 billion in military assistance since Russia’s initial invasion of Ukraine in 2014. We have now used the emergency Presidential Drawdown Authority on 55 occasions since August 2021 to provide Ukraine military assistance totaling approximately $31.7 billion from DoD stockpiles.

This means 66.9bn since Feb 2022 and 69.7 since 2014. Which means between 2014 and 2022 the US provided military aid to the tune of less than 3bn.
So you add 69 since 2014 to the potus contribution of 31.7 bn. And you get around 100bn. Which is close to the number quoted in the graph I posted. The difference could be from the time interval reference.

>>518966253
>spend no money
>lose
great plan you got there nafoid

>>518967540
a few billion euro from the niggerlands
people were glad to spend it to get rid of him.

>>518935783 (OP)
>we are 25 times bigger than the Russian economy
This is a gross oversimplification of the situation. Western economies are big, but their main industry is now importing third-worlders and turning their nations into pyramid schemes.
The majority don't have any manufacturing capacity, they don't mine or extract minerals, most people are working jobs that don't actually produce value and exist to give them something to do.
Putin being a dictator means he can seize manufacturing to be used to produce weapons and increase mining.
The West is too heavily regulated and Jewed to make the kind of decisions they would need to make to fight an enemy like Russia, let alone China. Plus the state they've made of their countries over the last 30 years means they'd really struggle to find anyone capable of fighting even if they wanted to. Nations full of obese, mentally fragile trannies, niggers and jeets do not make a good fighting force.

>>518969051
The thing it’s still a stalemate. So Ukraine most certainly isn’t losing.

>>518970041
>western GDP is inflated
True, but so are the Russian numbers. Lots of it isn’t manufacturing, but just oil, gas etc. or farming (usually low quality). Than the issue is in their production in terms of value added basically sucks. China is also doing it to an even higher degree. There is a reason they have ghost towns en masse. And the same is done in the US. So basically the reality is that a decent amount of the recent GDP growth are just quantitative artifacts and not qualitative next to anywhere anywhere. It doesn’t change the fact however. Russias importance compared to the European region is minimal.

>>518935783 (OP)
lol absolutely no need. we need to build more RHEINMETALL FACTORIES ALL OVER EUROPE. when putlerino sends just 2 calibrs there is no more rheinmetall artillery and tanks for everyone.

>>518970789
I still feel like our nations are in a lot worse shape than Russia is socially and politically.
I can't see many civilians here signing up to fight for Kier Starmer's Britain, they'd have a fucking huge mountain to climb if they wanted conscription.
I have a strong feeling that the whole thing is a fake and gay distraction anyway.

>>518935783 (OP)
>we are FAR SUPERIOR
>but we cannot shoot down and risk a total war please understand
>btw we are superior don't forget that

Very cucked attitude
Turkey didn't shoot down a Ruski plane because they were weak, they did it because it encroached on their airspace. If you don't do it, others will keep doing it until your defence is a joke.
Gotta make sure they fear your response and never make such a mistake again. Words are useless

>>518971320
There is no logical contradiction in this according to NATO leadership xD

>>518971571
>Romanian flag Turklover
Mykola, go back to the Ukraine.

>>518971320
BTW, most of Hungarian posters i met on imageboards were very intelligent. You guys really must have some strong askhenazi genes, it is not merely a rumor. xD. I like Hungary very much. I wish Bolanda had such smart elites as your country does. You are doing just great for a landlocked country.

>>518971850
>There is no logical contradiction in this according to NATO leadership xD

>>518971320
BTW, most of Hungarian posters i met on imageboards were very intelligent. You guys really must have some strong askhenazi genes, it is not merely a rumor. xD. I like Hungary very much. I wish Bolanda had such smart elites as your country does. You are doing just great for a landlocked country

>>518940341
A cracked out homeless man wanders the streets with a box cutter.

>>518971297
False flag will do the trick to motivate conscription. Starting a war is a good way to sweep internal issues under the rug.

>>518971297
>I still feel like our nations are in a lot worse shape than Russia is socially and politically.
I personally see Russia circling the same drain in terms of demographics. Even in terms of decline that’s also there maybe the still have a few better classic opera without modern garbage, but so does Eastern Europe. Otherwise a lot of the stuff is also there Putin and even the few slightly more intelligent people around him are still fuming most hours of the day about le evil mustache man or whining about alleged fascists and racism especially in Europe and the Us.
>I can't see many civilians here signing up to fight for Kier Starmer's Britain, they'd have a fucking huge mountain to climb if they wanted conscription.
Modern war needs less people. If done adequately. Hence fewer people being available only betters the sophistication of the military.
>I have a strong feeling that the whole thing is a fake and gay distraction anyway.
Quite possibly. Rute is correct Russia with regards to this, Russia is not that important. I doubt it will better social cohesion, maybe they will try to push more laws against this and that under the aegis of doing something against muh Russians. But even than the best I feel I can do is tell people the truth about Putin and Russia. He is less relevant and powerful than most think.

>>518972868
Most NATO nations are quite defensive in their posture. Unless Putin truly does something it’s extremely unlikely to fly and they won’t risk it, since it makes their case much harder in case of a real attack. NATO is a collective of nations. There isn’t some Putin at the top who can easily override everything or order people to look away. Chances are it won’t fly.

>>518973280
I wouldn't put it past anglo/mutt intelligence services to create a false flag in eastern europe.
Let's hope western European states are not as suicidal as Ukraine.

>>518972868
Honestly, I don't think it would.
False flags and psy-ops are being blown open within days and whatever happens wouldn't change the reality that this country is going to fucking shit. Why would white guys go to fight for it while the government allows shitskins to flood the borders? The real enemies are already within our borders.
>>518972960
>le evil mustache man or whining about alleged fascists and racism especially in Europe and the Us.
I always wonder if that talk isn't just a psy-op to stir up shit in the West or justify invading Ukraine. I'm not sure they really believe it.

>>518973977
NATO is designed so that there is integration between the nations participating in one mission sector on the tactical level and the strategical level. Surveillance crews are deliberately multinational. It will be very hard and as stated earlier >>518952867

>>518937054
>yet North Korea supplied more artillery shells than all of NATO combined, emberassing
and what a difference it made

>>518972960
Germany hasn't been relevant for at least 20 years.
Mama Merkel destroyed Germany, she destroyed your energy sector and you have been a failed state ever since then.
You talk about Russia while never admitting or even understanding that Germany needs Russian energy if it ever wants to regain any hope of a viable manufacturing economy again.
Bongland at least could start drilling for oil again, not to mention we have ample supplies of coal and shale lying untapped on the Bong mainland.
France has ample Nuclear generation.
What has Germany got?
Windmills and lederhosen wearing troons.
We Bongs didn't stop mining because we ran out of things to mine, we stopped because Saudi Oil was cheaper to import.
If we need to we could become energy independant again. Germany has no energy of it's own left to mine. Germany must go cap in hand to Mama Russia or Daddy America for it's future energy needs.
Thats whats so fucking retarded about Germans like you that start spouting such stupid retarded nonsense online about Russia being fucked and ready to collapse.
It makes me think you are one of them "new Germans" from Turkey or Somalia or Buttfuckistania.

>>518975580
Let’s lock at it from another perspective. Despite our incompetent to possibly hostile leadership we are still the economic powerhouse and doing better economically speaking than Britain and France per capita. There is more than enough coal here in Germany and no shortage of supply on the world market. Once we manage to elect competent leadership things will lock much brighter. I think without all the armament restrictions, weak and incompetent leadership (including the industrial strength) chances are Putin would have pulled off his debacle in Ukraine.
>Russia is ready to collapse
I didn’t say that. I know most people in Russia are used to living in misery and hence 50 percent without adequate fuel won’t instantly change something necessarily. However give it some time revolutions are part of the deal in Russia since forever just like the teas and the windows.

>>518976303
>lock
look^^

>>518976303
>Putin would have
Putin wouldn’t have^^

>>518974295
>I always wonder if that talk isn't just a psy-op to stir up shit in the West or justify invading Ukraine. I'm not sure they really believe it.
It’s the same for their own media audience. Let’s say even if it’s an act than the act at some point becomes the lived reality. At least with regards to Putins generation I‘ve little doubt about it. It’s harder to tell in case of the younger generations.