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Thread 519183303

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Anonymous (ID: m91P7qDc) No.519183303 >>519183409 >>519183651 >>519183859 >>519183999 >>519184049 >>519184066 >>519184987 >>519185062 >>519185643 >>519185730 >>519185776 >>519186189 >>519186250 >>519186584 >>519186830 >>519186886 >>519187052 >>519187470 >>519187636 >>519187663 >>519187751 >>519188016 >>519188094 >>519188286 >>519188387 >>519189009 >>519189425 >>519189503 >>519189836 >>519190115 >>519190494 >>519190532 >>519190591 >>519192218 >>519192642 >>519193251 >>519193302 >>519194029 >>519195598 >>519195844 >>519196269 >>519196375 >>519196815 >>519197077 >>519197268 >>519197563 >>519198218 >>519198306 >>519198306 >>519198306
>2000+ years later and still no one can refute this
how do religiousfags cope?
Anonymous (ID: gXtTdZ4v) No.519183409 >>519183452 >>519183674 >>519185587 >>519185742 >>519188534 >>519188722 >>519189203 >>519189472 >>519189691 >>519190602 >>519190911 >>519192546 >>519194161 >>519194619 >>519195644 >>519196360 >>519196808 >>519196820 >>519197539
>>519183303 (OP)
Anonymous (ID: 9hrmTTw7) Finland No.519183452
>>519183409
Thread
Anonymous (ID: PW+D+MB+) Canada No.519183563 >>519185398 >>519185782 >>519189313 >>519189395 >>519194619
there's an easier way to refute christianity (or any modern religion): there was a time before christianity existed and people lived on with their lives without it
Anonymous (ID: 6cYsmmXZ) United States No.519183651 >>519183883 >>519185655 >>519187173
>>519183303 (OP)
Anonymous (ID: 6cYsmmXZ) United States No.519183674 >>519183700
>>519183409
Meme flaggot kike
Anonymous (ID: 6cYsmmXZ) United States No.519183700 >>519186376
>>519183674
Anonymous (ID: qxt/OPHH) No.519183859
>>519183303 (OP)
We are the evil, we were created by God. He can prevent evil, he knows about evil, he prevented evil a few times (flood, Sodom and Gommorah flattening)... but evil is still there, because God is softie, so He never fully exterminated humans. Yes, he could created an universe without humans. He already did, there was a world with good humans without free will - although, we don't call them humans, they are usually considered angels. Consider us a failed experiment that He still checks on sometime. Apocalypse will the eventual reset.
Anonymous (ID: o1+0/EZf) Brazil No.519183883 >>519183950
>>519183651
Reasonable takes are not allowed, sorry.
Anonymous (ID: 6cYsmmXZ) United States No.519183950
>>519183883
JW on /pol/ (ID: /4PjDKSX) United States No.519183999 >>519184049 >>519184318 >>519185845 >>519189387 >>519189976 >>519196160 >>519197390
>>519183303 (OP)
>Can God Prevent Evil?
yes
>Does God know about all the Evil?
Yes
>Does God want to prevent Evil?
Yes
>Then Why is there Evil?
Was pain, suffering, evil all part of God's plan? No, it wasn't. So why did he allow it. For two simple reasons: Sovereignty and Integrity.

>Sovereignty

When the snake(Satan) approached Eve again he told her that God was lying and that she WOULD NOT DIE if she ate the fruit. That she would know good and evil and become like God herself. That's why Satan's name is Satan the Devil. It's not his real name. Nobody knows his real name. Satan means "Slanderer" and Devil means Rebel. He was the first to lie, the first to slander and blasphem God, and the first to rebel. Why did Satan want Adam, Eve, and himself to rebel? Because of Sovereignty. The right to rule. Satan STOLE God's sovereignty over humanity by tricking Adam and Eve that THEY would be their own sovereigns themselves by knowing good and evil and "become like God." They would govern themselves and decide their own moral code. God could have destroyed the rebels but he chose not to so they could present their challenge.

>Can man rule himself and give himself paradise given time?
>Can Satan rule mankind and be their God instead of Jehovah?
>Can man bring himself into prosperity, peace, order, and happiness by himself?

These were all challenges to God's sovereignty. So God stepped back, let mankind rule themselves, while the devil secretly ruled them. God's challenge to them and all currently mankind is "prove it."

CONTINUED
JW on /pol/ (ID: /4PjDKSX) United States No.519184049 >>519197277
>>519183303 (OP)
>>519183999
Integrity

>(Job 1:8) And Jehovah went on to say to Satan: β€œHave you set your heart upon my servant Job, that there is no one like him in the earth, a man blameless and upright, fearing God and turning aside from bad?”

>(Job 1:9-11) At that Satan answered Jehovah and said: β€œIS IT FOR NOTHING JOB HAS FEARED GOD?" 10Have not you yourself put up a hedge about him and about his house and about everything that he has all around? The work of his hands you have blessed, and his livestock itself has spread abroad in the earth. 11But, for a change, thrust out your hand, please, and touch everything he has [and see] whether he will not curse you to your very face.”

>(Job 2:4,5) But Satan answered Jehovah and said: β€œSkin in behalf of skin, and everything that a man has he will give in behalf of his soul. 5) For a change, thrust out your hand, please, and touch as far as his bone and his flesh [and see] whether he will not curse you to your very face.”

After Adam Eve, Cain Abel, Noah Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah and RIGHT BEFORE the rise of Moses and the 10 Plagues was the issue of Job. At the time JOB WAS THE ONLY GOD APPROVED PERSON ON EARTH. That's right, nobody was good on Earth except Job. Satan noticed that for a while there always continued to be humans loyal to God and wondered why. He reasoned up above that it was because God was bribing them with rewards, pleasures, and nice things. That humans were only loyal to God for rewards and not for sincere love of him. Satan challenged God in from of the angels to "thrust out your hand" and "hurt" him. Deny him all good things and watch as how Job turns against him. "Skin on behalf of skin" means that a man will throw away all of God's moral standards to save their own life. So God has allowed Satan to inflict pain and suffering on humanity to prove that humans will be loyal to God IN RETURN FOR NOTHING.

Good news though. This system of pain in suffering is almost over.
Anonymous (ID: XiVOTc8D) United States No.519184066 >>519184366
>>519183303 (OP)
can't know good without evil, can't be alive without death, can't be right without wrong, etc
Anonymous (ID: J9psMJ79) Germany No.519184318 >>519184428
>>519183999
>Was pain, suffering, evil all part of God's plan? No
Sorry anon, you just committed a heresy. Off to hell with you!
Anonymous (ID: J9psMJ79) Germany No.519184366 >>519184685
>>519184066
>can't know good without evil, can't be alive without death, can't be right without wrong
Literally none of these statements are true
JW on /pol/ (ID: /4PjDKSX) United States No.519184428 >>519184595
>>519184318
>Lamentations 3:33 - For not out of his own heart has he afflicted or does he grieve the sons of men.

>James 1:13 - When under trial, let no one say: β€œI am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone.

>Psalm 92:15 - To tell that Jehovah is upright. [He is] my Rock, in whom there is no unrighteousness.

>Job 34:10 - Therefore, YOU men of heart, listen to me. Far be it from the [true] God to act wickedly, And the Almighty to act unjustly!

>Deuteronomy 32:4 - The Rock, perfect is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice; Righteous and upright is he.

No, Jehovah never planned for evil to exist. It's not within his nature to create evil. Only good
Anonymous (ID: J9psMJ79) Germany No.519184595
>>519184428
>jw
Aren't you guys who constantly make retarded predictions about the world ending and the second coming of Christ only to get BTFO over and over again? Kek
Anonymous (ID: XiVOTc8D) United States No.519184685 >>519184752
>>519184366
>Literally none of these statements are true
>source: my ass
can't be true without false
Anonymous (ID: J9psMJ79) Germany No.519184752 >>519184958
>>519184685
Your first statement about no life without death directly opposes Christian doctrine so you already BTFO yourself before even getting started
Anonymous (ID: XiVOTc8D) United States No.519184958 >>519185084
>>519184752
>directly opposes Christian doctrine
i didn't say anything about an afterlife, merely pointing out the duality of nature.

if there is no wrong then everything would be right, e.g.:
2+2=4
2+2= -27
2+2=400 billion
how would we ever get anything done?
Anonymous (ID: 0+N07XHU) Finland No.519184987
>>519183303 (OP)
>Evil exists
Premise was false from the start. As a human, you are not able to comprehend Gods plan, and the things you might consider as evil are just a part of that plan.
Anonymous (ID: YMU+YHfw) Switzerland No.519185062 >>519197468
>>519183303 (OP)
Free will creates evil. Evil is a derivative of (made possible because of) free will
Anonymous (ID: J9psMJ79) Germany No.519185084 >>519185477
>>519184958
>afterlife is not being alive
Off to the heresy section with you
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519185398 >>519185782 >>519186271
>>519183563
Live like a savage. Yes. We have a history timelines for that.
https://youtu.be/-6Wu0Q7x5D0
Anonymous (ID: XiVOTc8D) United States No.519185477
>>519185084
>Off to the heresy section with you
not your call, buddy
>Matthew 7:1-3
Anonymous (ID: r/Z3S3iD) Brazil No.519185587 >>519185660 >>519194209 >>519194629
>>519183409
>let's mock the argument instead of refute it

Embarrassing.
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519185643 >>519195427
>>519183303 (OP)
>epicurean trilemma
this was zutted a few sentences after it was actually written by the Christian (lactantius) who sockpuppeted epicurus into saying it
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0703.htm
Anonymous (ID: r/Z3S3iD) Brazil No.519185655 >>519186463
>>519183651
"Good life" for Romans involved buttsex with boys.
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519185660 >>519186150
>>519185587
Define Evil.

Strength is Justice, and weakness is a Sin.
Anonymous (ID: Wfozrorh) United Kingdom No.519185730 >>519185884 >>519186206
>>519183303 (OP)
What are you talking about? This has been answered from the beginning.
Go read God, Freedom and Evil by Alvin Plantinga. You won't, because you don't care.
Because you're insincere.

Because you're a loser.
Anonymous (ID: 6H/GT//L) United States No.519185742 >>519193460
>>519183409
Does "candy" in this strawman stand for evil or the antithesis of evil? It's used both ways. In the first box it's a stand in for "evil", yet in the second box it is a stand in for evil's negation.

The argument is bad faith and it's a bad analogy that looks stupid to people who went to college and took logic. Will only work on rednecks.
Anonymous (ID: +CbkfyUK) Norway No.519185776 >>519185972 >>519186565
>>519183303 (OP)
I noticed you can get stuck in a loop here. Is that what happens to christians? Is this why they can progress to gnosticism?
>Then why didn't he? Free will
>Could God create a universe with free will but without evil? Yes
>Then why didn't he? Free will
>Could...
Anonymous (ID: Ik+yc+8I) Canada No.519185782 >>519185829 >>519185876 >>519185923
>>519183563
>>519185398
>savage
Lol, thousands of years before Christianity was ever a thing and the apostles were but molecules floating around for their eventual transformation -> people were already building Giza, the Parthenon, Ziggurats, entire complex societies and civilizations (much greater than anything you personally could ever be or create).

Christnigger delusion, as always, is quite hilarious. Christnigger shenanigans in the Roman Empire caused such damage to human knowledge, innovation, and loss of great works that we basically stagnated until people started rediscovering works of antiquity.
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519185829 >>519186038
>>519185782
All of them are dead. God is Eternal.
Anonymous (ID: r/Z3S3iD) Brazil No.519185845
>>519183999
>God could have destroyed the rebels but he chose not to so they could present their challenge.

Yeah this totally justify children with cancer, btw.
Go fuck yourself, retard.
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519185876 >>519186038 >>519186347
>>519185782
>Lol, thousands of years before Christianity was ever a thing and the apostles were but molecules floating around for their eventual transformation -> people were already building blah blah
and eating eachother and chucking their babies into the woods
Anonymous (ID: 6H/GT//L) United States No.519185884 >>519185923 >>519185979 >>519186056
>>519185730
>This has been answered from the beginning.
No it hasn't, Christian apologists have been struggling with it for centuries to the extent there is a specific word they coined for their attempts to argue against it.

Prove you aren't a complete rube by telling us what that word is.
Anonymous (ID: Wfozrorh) United Kingdom No.519185923 >>519186025
>>519185782
What the hell are you even whining about

>>519185884
>No it hasn't
Yes, it has. Read the book you zoomer.
Didn't read further.
Anonymous (ID: +CbkfyUK) Norway No.519185972
>>519185776
Hm yeah seems like it.
Anonymous (ID: Wfozrorh) United Kingdom No.519185979 >>519186118
>>519185884
Okay, I continued
>the word
Theodicy
Anonymous (ID: 6H/GT//L) United States No.519186025 >>519186083
>>519185923
Tell us in your own words what the book says. If it's not fiction then spoilers don't matter. Nutshell it, please.
Anonymous (ID: Ik+yc+8I) Canada No.519186038 >>519186082
>>519185829
Of course they are dead retard, people don't live forever. That doesn't change that their legacy is far greater and more important than yours will ever be. Better vision, higher understanding, nobility, culture.
>>519185876
Oh yeah, complex systems, great works, and human knowledge definitely came out of barbarian societies - retard. It is in fact you, who destroyed so many of those works in barbaric fashion that we had to wait for over 1,000 years for classical antiquity ideas to be rediscovered again.
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519186056 >>519187887 >>519189241 >>519196382
>>519185884
>>This has been answered from the beginning.
>No it hasn't
yes it has.
1: epicurus believed in and taught about gods that didn't give a shit about human affairs and would never have proposed this dilemma
2: it was actually created wholecloth by a Christian named lactantius who erroneously thought that's what epicurus taught and lactantius zutted it immediately after presenting it in the same work.
3: the reason you've heard of it today is because hume found it 1000 years later and published the misattribution of epicurus and didn't bother pointing out it was already solved.
the problem of suffering is a big deal, but this trilemma version was dead on arrival.
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0703.htm
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519186082 >>519186171
>>519186038
Wrong. God is Eternal.
Anonymous (ID: Wfozrorh) United Kingdom No.519186083 >>519186174
>>519186025
>Tell us in your own words what the book says.
It's over 100 pages read it yourself you lazy fuck
Anonymous (ID: 6H/GT//L) United States No.519186118 >>519186192
>>519185979
OK then you realize this has been wrestled with for a long time, it's a valid question that is not easy to answer against.
Anonymous (ID: r/Z3S3iD) Brazil No.519186150 >>519186195 >>519186234 >>519186266
>>519185660
>Define Evil.

In christian terms?
Evil is everything that god supposedly hates but doesn't do shit about it, and if asked about it he just say it was the woman and snake fault 6000 years ago.
Anonymous (ID: Ik+yc+8I) Canada No.519186171
>>519186082
Terribly coded bot.
Anonymous (ID: 6H/GT//L) United States No.519186174 >>519186192 >>519186644
>>519186083
Read The God Delusion. That is what you sound like rn
Anonymous (ID: C038Hytz) Australia No.519186189
>>519183303 (OP)
https://youtu.be/57rMzjIE5l4
Anonymous (ID: Wfozrorh) United Kingdom No.519186192 >>519186374
>>519186118
>not easy
It's easy. It's "not easy" because it's two arguments rolled into one. Emotional and logical and you conflate between the two.

>>519186174
I already did. He doesn't actually have any argument.s
Anonymous (ID: pQkrcWsA) Austria No.519186195 >>519186961
>>519186150
No dude but uhm free will dude.
I know God defined what free will means at the conception of the universe, but, uh, dude, think about it, God is constrained by my arbitrary logical bounds and what I feel like the words 'free will' should mean. So it's not his fault dude. He can, like, totally stop the evil he hates, he just doesn't wanna, dude, because, uh, free will.
Anonymous (ID: r/Z3S3iD) Brazil No.519186206 >>519186257
>>519185730
>This has been answered
>proceeds to not answer

Pottery.
Anonymous (ID: lpVxnK57) Slovakia No.519186234
>>519186150
Ask him about Khorne
HuperGnome (ID: lIuRPp+v) United States No.519186250
>>519183303 (OP)
unless there is more value to life than feeling good and having fun. this greater thing is the division between epicurians and the real philosophers (who say there exists some good in vontrast to apparent good; thevman more than animal)

predicates are hardest to spot if you wrre born in their belly.
Anonymous (ID: Wfozrorh) United Kingdom No.519186257 >>519186399 >>519186523
>>519186206
I gave him a book to read. That's an answer.
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519186266 >>519187725
>>519186150
Mind-broken by the apple. Many such case.
Anonymous (ID: lpVxnK57) Slovakia No.519186271 >>519186327 >>519186495 >>519186994 >>519194619
>>519185398
Christcuck reveals his true face
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519186327 >>519186593
>>519186271
What's my true face?
Anonymous (ID: lpVxnK57) Slovakia No.519186347
>>519185876
>and eating eachother and chucking their babies into the woods

Why did YHWH command that then?
Anonymous (ID: 6H/GT//L) United States No.519186374 >>519186427
>>519186192
What is the "emotional" aspect of it? Aren't you just using the word "emotional" as a kind of psychological manipulation to prime the audience to see those who argue the PoE as sissies?
Anonymous (ID: lpVxnK57) Slovakia No.519186376
>>519183700
Anonymous (ID: pQkrcWsA) Austria No.519186399 >>519186427
>>519186257
If you can't extract the core of the book and argue it yourself, you're a fucking moron.
A book isn't an answer. The knowledge contained within the book is the answer. A moron that can't summarize it aptly in two sentences isn't worth even talking to.
Anonymous (ID: Wfozrorh) United Kingdom No.519186427 >>519186570 >>519186588
>>519186374
No, there's "why does God let this happen" and "WHY DOES GOD LET THIS HAPPEN? :'("

>>519186399
>can't
Won't. Read you lazy zoomer.
Anonymous (ID: lpVxnK57) Slovakia No.519186463
>>519185655
Did your favorite jew tell you that?
HuperGnome (ID: lIuRPp+v) United States No.519186495
>>519186271
everyone dies.
Anonymous (ID: 6H/GT//L) United States No.519186523 >>519186653
>>519186257
You didn't support your argument or even make an argument. You just told me to read a book, OK but that's not an argument and I doubt you're capable of debating me on anything, you'll just outsource
Anonymous (ID: +CbkfyUK) Norway No.519186560 >>519186813
>THIS BOOK IS THE LITERAL WORD OF GOD
>uH noo uhm this part is kind of problematic uhhh
Anonymous (ID: aqERqhIa) Germany No.519186565 >>519186635 >>519186652
>>519185776
Lol. How can you have true free will if your choices does not matter? Or cant chose to be Evil? Are you retarded?
Anonymous (ID: 6H/GT//L) United States No.519186570 >>519186653
>>519186427
Let's agree that evil exists. Agree, disagree, or dodge the question?
Anonymous (ID: 1ANkfNq3) Germany No.519186584
>>519183303 (OP)
What was his problem?
HuperGnome (ID: lIuRPp+v) United States No.519186588 >>519186653 >>519186672 >>519186719
>>519186427
the pretext is pleasure is the only value/good.

it's a modern assumption. so, modernity is logically antireligion, since religion says man should rise above the animals.
Anonymous (ID: lpVxnK57) Slovakia No.519186593 >>519186668
>>519186327
Anti-white
Anonymous (ID: 6H/GT//L) United States No.519186635 >>519187054
>>519186565
Do you drink toilet water? Yes or no question or you could dodge it. It's a simple question.
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519186644 >>519188180
>>519186174
i've read it.
here's dawkins "central argument" in the book

>p1: how does the complex improbable appearance of design in the universe arise?
>p2: the natural temptation is to attribute the appearance of design to actual design itself
>p3: this temptation is a false one, because the designer hypothesis immediately raises the larger problem of who designed the designer (lol)
>p4: the most powerful mechanism for bringing order is darwinian evolution by natural selection
>p5: we don't yet have an equivalent mechanism for physics, but some kind of multiverse theory might solve the problem (lol)
>p6: we should not give up hope [...] the relatively weak mechanistic theories we have at present are still self-evidently better than the self-defeating skyhook hypothesis of an intelligent designer (lol)
>c: therefore, there is almost certainly no god

how come i've never seen an atheist actually use this totally real syllogism ever?
HuperGnome (ID: lIuRPp+v) United States No.519186652
>>519186565
free and will combine to make an oxymoron. the reaches of will step on toes the second it's out the door at 7am.
Anonymous (ID: Wfozrorh) United Kingdom No.519186653 >>519186825
>>519186523
I learned long ago not to debate an atheist. They waste my time. You respond to insults because you're emotionally-driven.
You know the answer already.

>>519186570
Sure, but I don't care.
>why doesn't God
Not my problem.
>but what if
I don't care.
>but you could
I. Don't. Care.
Do you understand?

>>519186588
Fair.
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519186668 >>519187276
>>519186593
Why am I anti-white? My skin is literally white.
Anonymous (ID: J9psMJ79) Germany No.519186672 >>519187771
>>519186588
>it's a modern assumption
Lmao
Anonymous (ID: 6H/GT//L) United States No.519186719 >>519187997
>>519186588
There is no such pretext, you're strawmanning. The PoE only requires that evil exists. It doesn't require utilitarianism, hedonism, or emotional anything.
Anonymous (ID: Ik+yc+8I) Canada No.519186813
>>519186560
Oh, wow, the word of God?
Can you offer proof of that?
Wow, I am so ready to convert, all you need to do is offer proof that it is the word of God.
Anonymous (ID: 6H/GT//L) United States No.519186825 >>519186869 >>519186980
>>519186653
Good for you, but don't think you've made it look like you bested me in a debate. You totally haven't.
Anonymous (ID: Ww/LfOJN) United States No.519186830 >>519187711 >>519187869 >>519188180
>>519183303 (OP)
>every so-called "atheist" is a religious kook that imagines God in the exact same way that Monty Python does
atheism (noun)
atheΒ·ism (ˈā-thΔ“-ˌi-zΙ™m)
1. a religion that creates their god in the exact image created by the true believer but castrates and makes impotent theirs
2. the lamest yet most destructive religion of extremist collectivists of otherwise powerless and typically unlovable morons
Related: atheist
1. a religious zealot that worships an impotent and castrated god
2. a weak minded midwit that pretends they're smart by claiming they don't believe in the same anthropomorphic concepts as the true believer but doesn't understand that by mirror modeling the concept they've merely castrated and made impotent their own version
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519186852
Let's say. My God is supremely Evil. What are you gonna do?
Anonymous (ID: Wfozrorh) United Kingdom No.519186869
>>519186825
I'm not debating. You can't debate anyway.
Anonymous (ID: 7xXdW5jQ) United States No.519186886
>>519183303 (OP)
We are only on the earth for a short amount of time, what happens to us here is only temporary and not real in the grand scheme of things.
Anonymous (ID: a/8DZffi) No.519186895 >>519187038
You're supposed to worship god because he Is powerful and commands you to, not because of baby paradoxes and "goodness"
Anonymous (ID: r/Z3S3iD) Brazil No.519186961 >>519187526
>>519186195
>gives humans free will
>humans use free will
>gets mad

The whole thing is stupid.

>don't eat the fruit from that tree
>yeah I'll put the tree there anyway
>big, beautiful tree

Kek.
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519186980 >>519187377
>>519186825
i'll debate, i'm all caffienated and shit
start over though from the top unless you want me to just address OP's hume's lactantius' epicurean trilemma more in depth
Anonymous (ID: Ww/LfOJN) United States No.519186994 >>519187251
>>519186271
Idiota twas Christianity that united Europe.
Anonymous (ID: Ik+yc+8I) Canada No.519187038 >>519187076
>>519186895
>you have to be threatened, coerced, and dominated into my religion
>because we can't offer any logical arguments, talking points, or provide knowledge to convert in a civilized manner

kek
Anonymous (ID: OslqTZ+W) United States No.519187052
>>519183303 (OP)
God is like a game update log. Read: "minor balance updates"
Anonymous (ID: 6H/GT//L) United States No.519187054 >>519187242 >>519187324
>>519186635
In case he never responds, drinking toilet water in the analogy represents evil. Whatever free will is, we can agree it need not be contingent on toilet water drinking. So if you can have a world with free will but no toilet water drinking, you could have a world with free will but no rape right? Think about it, what's the trait that makes rape soooo important to have for free will, but toilet water drinking, eh, don't need that? No such trait right? So just go down the list with all the other evils too.

Free will fails as a theodicy.
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519187076 >>519187210 >>519187391
>>519187038
Might makes Right. Power is Absolute.
Anonymous (ID: uXAbd16i) Argentina No.519187173
>>519183651
>but will welcome you if you are based
Based
Anonymous (ID: Ik+yc+8I) Canada No.519187210 >>519187293
>>519187076
Kill yourself you retarded bot-adjacent failure of a human. No one wants to read your word salad vomit posts.
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519187242 >>519187574
>>519187054
that's probably why anon pointed you toward plantinga's book.
even atheist philosophers like JL mackie acknowledged that plantinga successfully showed it's logically possible that all free creatures suffer from "transworld depravity" meaning that in every possible world where they have free will, they would choose at least some evil.
so yes, even if toilet water drinking (as a stand-in for evil) seems dispensable, plantinga's argument shows that a world with free will and evil might not be feasible.
Anonymous (ID: lpVxnK57) Slovakia No.519187251
>>519186994
I'm glad that there weren't any wars in Europe after 476 AD
Anonymous (ID: lpVxnK57) Slovakia No.519187276 >>519187323 >>519187711
>>519186668
White means European.
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519187293
>>519187210
Why can't you just accept the fact that you are just an entertainment pastimes to the Almighty Being?
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519187323
>>519187276
Sure, then why should I side with you fuck? I'm not a cuck.
Anonymous (ID: aqERqhIa) Germany No.519187324 >>519187459
>>519187054
Garbage bait. But i will bite. What a retarded logic relying on emotions. Muh feelings says le evil dont need to be real ne shiiieet. Fucking Shill appeal to emotions is the only thing you can do. Have fun in Hell. Sage
Anonymous (ID: 6H/GT//L) United States No.519187377 >>519187686
>>519186980
P1. If a being who has complete power to prevent evil (omnipotence), complete abhorrence of evil to motivate its prevention (omnibenevolence), and complete knowledge of evil to manifest its prevention (omnicience) exists, those powers would be used to prevent evil. For short, we will call this supposed being Bud.
P2. Evil exists
Therefore, Bud does not exist.
The argument form is valid, so your issue needs to be with P1 or P2 unless you want to throw the concept of logic in the trash
Anonymous (ID: Ww/LfOJN) United States No.519187391 >>519187452
>>519187076
That philosophy you mention means there's no such thing as right and wrong, which is to also claim that you're only animal. Which also implies that those who consider themselves more than animal are justified in exploiting you. So you're basically broadcasting worldwide that you're human cattle waiting to be milked, sheered, traded, sold, or worse.
And you thought you were being clever.
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519187452
>>519187391
There is nothing more powerful than God. Your denial will not erasesd the exiatence of the Almighty One.
Anonymous (ID: 6H/GT//L) United States No.519187459
>>519187324
Your post is incomprehensible gibberish and you are a fool.
Anonymous (ID: FiQR2AL+) Romania No.519187470 >>519187650
>>519183303 (OP)
EVIL EXISTS = NO. There you go. Evil does not have ontology
Anonymous (ID: Ww/LfOJN) United States No.519187526 >>519195702
>>519186961
>duh Monty Python sketch is the only definition of God that counts because consensus!!!
Sure we all know the majority of people are geniuses.
Anonymous (ID: 6H/GT//L) United States No.519187574 >>519187855
>>519187242
I hope that's not Platinga's response to the PoE because it is self-refuting.

If beings with free will MUST cdo evil, then either God has no free will, or God is not omnibenevolent. That's so obvious.
Anonymous (ID: uO0uV5XG) United Kingdom No.519187636 >>519187754
>>519183303 (OP)
The mistake in the written religion was trying to one-up all othe competing religions by saying your god is has infinity power.

The best refutation of the paradox is to say God is beyond our understanding. On a sort scale, death and suffering seem evil but on a longer scale beyond lifetimes, you got to live and the balance of things leans towards good.
Anonymous (ID: 6H/GT//L) United States No.519187650 >>519188492
>>519187470
OK if evil doesn't exist then the PoE has nothing to say on deities. But most people do believe evil exists, especially most theists.
But fine. 100% concession that the PoE falls apart if you jettison the entire concept of evil, that is a STEEP price, but fine.
Anonymous (ID: qMmloZKr) Russian Federation No.519187663
>>519183303 (OP)
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519187686 >>519187885
>>519187377
p1 assumes that if Bud has the power, knowledge, and motivation to prevent evil, he MUST do so. but this is a non-sequitur.
having the capacity and desire to prevent evil doesn't entail immediate or total prevention, because:
1: free will defense
>if Bud values free will, he may permit evil as a consequence of moral agency
2: soul-making theodicy
>evil may be allowed for the development of virutes like courage, compassion and resilence.
3: greater good reasoning
>some evils may be permitted because they lead to outcomes that are better overall

the argument treats omnibenevolence as moral micromanaging, as if a good being must eliminate all suffering instantly, but benevolence can include allowing temporary suffering for long-term flourishing, or permitting moral growth through struggle, or respecting autonomy when it leads to harm.
so it's a category error, confusing benevolence with indulgent interventionism
even an omnipotent being cannot do the logically impossible, like creating free creatures who always choose good (see transworld depravity) if evil is a necessary consequence of freedom then preventing it entirely would mean eliminating freedom, which may itself be a greater evil.
p1 presumes that evil is gratuitous, that no morally sufficient reason could justify its existence. but that's the point under debate, so it's a question begging premise rather than a neutral starting point.

so,
p1 is a philosophical strawman that assumes that a perfect being must act like a cosmic nanny eradicating all discomfort and wrongdoing instantly, but that's moral infantilization rather than omnibenevolence. true goodness may involve permitting hardship for the sake of freedom, growth and meaning. the existence of evil doesn't disprove bud, it disproves a simplistic caricature of divinity.
Anonymous (ID: Ww/LfOJN) United States No.519187711
>>519187276
Idiota you're taking everything literally like a zealot. See >>519186830
Anonymous (ID: jI3QZncN) Spain No.519187725 >>519187886
>>519186266
>apple
proof christkeks dont read their fucking holy book lmfao
Anonymous (ID: UAeKMshF) Hungary No.519187751
>>519183303 (OP)
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519187754
>>519187636
There is no mistake. Just your lack of intelligent. You are not All mighty.
>I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
HuperGnome (ID: lIuRPp+v) United States No.519187771 >>519187812
>>519186672
Did the school see widespread acceptance?

:)
Anonymous (ID: J9psMJ79) Germany No.519187812 >>519188133
>>519187771
>immediately goalpostshifts again
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519187855
>>519187574
plantinga's claim isn't that "all beings with free will must do evil"
it's that it's logically possible that every human creatures suffers from transworld depravity, meaning that in every feasible world where they have free will, they would freely choose at least some evil.
that's a contingent fact about creatures rather than a necessity about free will itself.
Anonymous (ID: jI3QZncN) Spain No.519187869
>>519186830
monty python mindbroke you
Anonymous (ID: 6H/GT//L) United States No.519187885 >>519188107 >>519188159
>>519187686
>if Bud values free will, he may permit evil as a consequence of moral agency
This is begging the question that evil is a consequence of moral agency and free will. Establish that first, please.
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519187886 >>519187925 >>519188063
>>519187725
Apple fell on eistein head. Apple dominated the smartphone market, and spread the wide use of internet to the normies. Apple has always been the fruit that represent the Knowledge.
Anonymous (ID: l3dlIpeB) Australia No.519187887
>>519186056
>if I keep saying an idea was "zutted" it might make me right please god
>also if an idea is misattributed by someone the idea is therefore bad and wrong
lmao
Anonymous (ID: jI3QZncN) Spain No.519187925 >>519187952
>>519187886
>Apple fell on eistein head.
LMAOOOOOOOOOOO
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519187952 >>519192820
>>519187925
Are you gonna argue with the setting of the world?
HuperGnome (ID: lIuRPp+v) United States No.519187997
>>519186719
if good is order, then a chaotic god would be a devil. can God be satan is just a joke and the masterstroke of ignorant wankers.
Anonymous (ID: eC8oHH30) Russian Federation No.519188016 >>519188338
>>519183303 (OP)
That's quite easy. Evil is possible to create. It's in the realm of possibility for an advanced entity like God. If humans are bound to posess the power of creation (there are opinions that eventually human souls reaches godlike status as it becomes closer to God), they need to learn the nature of evil, because sooner or later they will have to encounter it, even as a side effect of their own creation.
HuperGnome (ID: lIuRPp+v) United States No.519188063
>>519187886
the smartphone is the one device that's killed more people than cigarettes.
Anonymous (ID: yrG6cLks) Latvia No.519188094 >>519188146 >>519188194 >>519188224
>>519183303 (OP)
Gnostics have something similar to christianity, but it makes sense.
Christianity doesn't apply to the real world, it's for stupid people.
With demiurge this paradox is solve immediately. The world is shit, an evil god created it.
Anonymous (ID: 6H/GT//L) United States No.519188107 >>519188630
>>519187885
*necessary consequence. My mistake I should have been more specific.

I do not agree that evil is necessary for free will. If Bud has free will and existed before evil, that in itself would be incompatible with the idea.
HuperGnome (ID: lIuRPp+v) United States No.519188133
>>519187812
my words are my own words, simple child.

I didn't make a statement about the past.

but, you are a child. so, you, uneducated, are very in awe of your blundering.
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519188146
>>519188094
You can always kill yourself.
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519188159
>>519187885
it's not a question-begging move to say that evil can be a consequence of free will. that's a widely accepted premise in moral philosophy and theology.
the claim is that moral evil (as opposed to natural evil) arises when agents freely choose actions that violate moral norms.

example: murder, theft, betrayal. these are deliberate choices made by moral agents rather than random cosmic glitches.
free will entails the possibility of misuse. if choices are genuinely free, then choosing wrong must be possible, otherwise it's programming rather than freedom.

plantinga's point is modal.
it's logically possible that in every feasible world, free creatures would choose some evil.
it doesn't assert that evil must follow from free will, only that it can, and that this possibility blocks the logical(!) problem of evil.

if you want to bring up the probabilistic formulation of the problem of evil, fine, but that's a different battlefield. the logical one is already scorched earth.
Anonymous (ID: hBQ0C4Gb) Australia No.519188180 >>519188248
>>519186644
holy shit you think questions and thoughts are premises lmfao

>>519186830
I can't believe three digit IQ humans are forced to share a world with niggers like you
Anonymous (ID: 6H/GT//L) United States No.519188194 >>519188901
>>519188094
What if there is a higher God who is incomprehensibly powerful, but NOT omnipotent, therefore the demiurge despite being weaker and shittier does have some of the power?

PoE is also solved by conceding God is 99.9999999% OOO. But they won't have it they want the last bit
HuperGnome (ID: lIuRPp+v) United States No.519188224
>>519188094
Well, there were Christian gnostics.
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519188248 >>519188636
>>519188180
>holy shit you think questions and thoughts are premises lmfao
no, dawkins did in his stupid book.
i agree that it's hilarious though.
Anonymous (ID: sKOWD2Zq) United States No.519188286 >>519188360
>>519183303 (OP)
I can refute it
Evil is fun
HuperGnome (ID: lIuRPp+v) United States No.519188338 >>519188432
>>519188016
or, God only creates "evil", but can't create evil, because by definition order is good, and chaos is evil. and ofc if chaotic not much will get made (duh)

so chaos only advances against order

and order only fights back
HuperGnome (ID: lIuRPp+v) United States No.519188360
>>519188286
or

evil is tragic and filthy
Anonymous (ID: YVwy+e0Z) United States No.519188387
>>519183303 (OP)
Break point is at the "Why didn't he?"
It's not to test you. It's not "free-will".
It's to harden you. To sharpen your soul into something useful.
Your worldly suffering is inconsequential.
Getting upset about it is like getting upset about a candy bar wrapper getting torn up.
The wrapper isn't important.
Anonymous (ID: J9psMJ79) Germany No.519188432 >>519189025 >>519189064
>>519188338
>but can't create evil
>cant
So many heretics ITT kek
Anonymous (ID: FiQR2AL+) Romania No.519188492 >>519189348
>>519187650
It's literally Christian metaphysics, evil does not have ontology, evil does not exist, God didn't create evil. Evil = privation boni.
Anonymous (ID: eCzSteAi) Italy No.519188534
>>519183409
Kek
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519188630
>>519188107
that clarification helps but still misses the point.
plantinga doesn't claim that evil is necessary for free will in general, only that it's possible that every human creature suffers from transworld depravity, meaning they would freely choose some evil in every feasible world.

the flying spaghetti man having free will and not choosing evil doesn't refute this, it just shows that not all beings with free will suffer from transworld depravit, which is entirely consistent with the defense. it's about logical possibility rather than metaphysical necessity, which is all that's needed to defeat the logical problem of evil, as it's up to the person using the argument to demonstrate the impossibility of God evil and omnibenevolence.
Anonymous (ID: hBQ0C4Gb) Australia No.519188636 >>519188831
>>519188248
There's no need to lie.

FYI, free will (the ability to choose/do otherwise) literally doesn't exist - there is no way for anything to ever be any way other than the way in which it is, sorry.

Hard determinism is solidified further every single day.
Let me know when true randomness is observed, or when souls are detected, or when literally anything that "can't happen" happens.
Anonymous (ID: Bo6m2Ec9) Germany No.519188722
>>519183409
Perfect
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519188795
The apple guy predicted the apocalypse on 2060 AD btw.
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519188831 >>519189013
>>519188636
>There's no need to lie.

your leader was like
>okay, so here's my central argument of the book
>(numbered premises, final line says "therefore, blah blah blah")
he was absolutely going for a syllogism but didn't understand how arguments work
Anonymous (ID: yrG6cLks) Latvia No.519188901 >>519188922
>>519188194
I don't believe in hell. I don't believe in a good god who created this shithole. I don't believe in a good god who throws the vast majority oh humanity in eternal hellfire just because.
Christianity works much better than gnosticism if you want to be in the role of the sheperd for the christian animals.
Im gnostic theology there is no punishment for doing bad things in this world.
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519188922 >>519189173
>>519188901
>there is no punishment for the 7 deasly sins
Lmao
Anonymous (ID: JmjbGRP3) Netherlands No.519189009
>>519183303 (OP)
funny, I guess evil doesnt exist
Anonymous (ID: 6Wfnf/XM) Australia No.519189013 >>519189100
>>519188831
You can just refer to my previous post, as you haven't actually addressed the content, while also making further claims without evidence kek
HuperGnome (ID: lIuRPp+v) United States No.519189025
>>519188432
you don't get it

saying
>can't

doesn't remove all-able

you took disability and down as ability and up.

but if you aren't down, then you are lower despite being higher (if we all hang as bats)

we don't hang as bats.

the perfection in God is in his achievement of discrimination (he made you a chamber pot for shitty ideas).

what you do is you say

what if the universe is like a board game, an rpg, a simulation, a novel.

then, having constrained reality to this concept, which is damned from the start, we inevitably find the borders and stand upside down as bats looking down into the void (of up) as inferior.

but that is death

because the assumption is "good" under an exact hedpnistic modern concept.

and so all modernism is antireligion, but is in the convenient box of delusion.
HuperGnome (ID: lIuRPp+v) United States No.519189064
>>519188432
also, technical point.

evil is used in two ways in the Bible. evil as in something sucks, and evil as in sin/damnation as a coloration.
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519189100
>>519189013
>You can just refer to my previous post
>hurr hurr hard determinism is true prove me wrong
it was boring and dull.
you're stupid.
Anonymous (ID: yrG6cLks) Latvia No.519189173 >>519189227
>>519188922
According to your morality, everyone engages in those sins every day. Christianity is pretty much moral relativism.
Anonymous (ID: O/HZosr5) Sweden No.519189203 >>519189241
>>519183409
>can't even begin to refute Epicurus
>has to take refuge in schoolyard insults
Why would you even post something this damning of your mental faculties?
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519189227 >>519193580
>>519189173
The punishment of gluttony is to be a fatty. Being a fat fuck is in itself is like living in Hell.
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519189241 >>519189556 >>519189896
>>519189203
>can't even begin to refute Epicurus
see >>519186056
Anonymous (ID: b/dpT6Hw) United States No.519189313
>>519183563
That's not a refutation at all. There was also a time when antibiotics existed but people weren't aware of them as such. Example: honey
HuperGnome (ID: lIuRPp+v) United States No.519189348
>>519188492
right, but it's better to say that good is order, and evil is chaos. this helps explain the problem.

thay is, the inevitable deeds of the evil way is firty, rotting, disease, death etc.

to fail to grasp that the PRINCIPLE of death leads to death is the cause of the view

>if you are truly powerful, defile the body, sell out the soul, worship the liar

until it is understood that antiability isn't ability, there is no understanding.

we understand also birth. how is a woman who gives birth instead of aborting not giving birth?

And good, it is like birth where the antithesis can't be in it.

This is not Unreal Engine 5, we aren't designers of arbitraries. GOOD! BIRTH! the absence is the tremendous (and cause for terror, too)
Anonymous (ID: eg3mALP2) United States No.519189387 >>519189480
>>519183999
More christcuck cope I’m starting to feel fatigued
HuperGnome (ID: lIuRPp+v) United States No.519189395 >>519190646
>>519183563
Jesus answered that, speaking about Moses and the snake etc.
Anonymous (ID: VRClSCbC) No.519189425
>>519183303 (OP)
Shut the fuck up

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil
Anonymous (ID: K+mfW5gP) United States No.519189472
>>519183409
>then mummy has no power to create nutritious candy*
and doesn't claim to. Fixed and you're welcome.
HuperGnome (ID: lIuRPp+v) United States No.519189480 >>519190680
>>519189387
>feelings

reddit midwit badge unlocked
Anonymous (ID: 8gzCagKO) Poland No.519189503
>>519183303 (OP)
Why to make such a complex paradox if he can just said "can god make a stone that he cannot lift" or "can god make a human without making a human" which is basiacally "can god make world without evil and with free will"
Anonymous (ID: O/HZosr5) Sweden No.519189556 >>519189849
>>519189241
Epicurus did not believe in the dodekhaton.
Your entire premise is faulty to the extreme as you set out with the benevolence of the Christian God as a known item when that is in fact what is being questioned.
Anonymous (ID: vnjxSjrc) United States No.519189691 >>519189766
>>519183409
Someone was so mad at the OP image that they sat down and made this facebook-tier boomer meme.
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519189766
>>519189691
If you do not feel mad when someone insult your loved one. Can you call it love?
Anonymous (ID: jX0LEYZd) United States No.519189836
>>519183303 (OP)
Evil is necessary in order for good to prevail. That's why there is the concept of "necessary evil" to begin with
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519189849 >>519190269
>>519189556
>Epicurus did not believe in the dodekhaton.
i didn't say he did.
epicurus envisioned deities as blissful and detached, which is why he wouldn't have proposed a trilemma about divine intervention.
my point was that the trilemma that the Christian lactantius attributed to him in order to immediately dismantle doesn't reflect epicurus' actual views.
>Your entire premise is faulty to the extreme as you set out with the benevolence of the Christian God as a known item when that is in fact what is being questioned.
no, what's being questioned in the trilemma is the possibility or impossibility of the coexistence of the 3 things at once (omnibenevolence, evil, omnipotent God)
HuperGnome (ID: lIuRPp+v) United States No.519189896 >>519190050
>>519189241
I already did. The ways of chaos and the ways of order are in opposition such that big E Evil (not little e evil) is unmakeable.

And so we undersrand good as a ray, evil as a ray, opposed, meaning at all positions good or ill are present as possibilities.

you may think, but the whole container of the universe is under God's supervision. but I want you to know something from math.

you see
._________.
see the line between these points?

alone, there are infinite points.

So God has already got in heaven all inginity without your dirty presence.

he dowsn't need you at all to have infinite everything.

you say he must make your particular sphere paradise, or he is Evil, or not all powetful. But all is above between only two points.

So God already exceeds your parameters, which were too constraining.
Anonymous (ID: F2Ha8pDV) United Kingdom No.519189976 >>519190243
>>519183999
Why did God make the tree with the fruit of knowledge?
Did God know Satan would get eve to eat the apple?
HuperGnome (ID: lIuRPp+v) United States No.519190050
>>519189896
and again, the meaning of the ray of hope and goodness and order, being opposite Evil and death, it's incapable of evil, but this inability is not inability but anti-ability or anti-order.

Like the mother, again, she gives BIRTH. To LIFE. And we say she is good, and even great, but you the devil, lying kike from the start, say "birth that is greatest is abortion"

what an inverter.
Anonymous (ID: V9EYuSFe) United States No.519190115
>>519183303 (OP)
He's the philosopher who invented enjoying food
Anonymous (ID: p2OMZ8F8) Turkey No.519190151
>"NOOOOO YOU MUST BELIEVE THE OBVIOUS LIES YOU WILL BURN IN HELL"
Why do we tolerate liars? All deceivers deserve to die. They are probably solely responsible for every bad event so far.
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519190243 >>519190463
>>519189976
>Why did God make the tree with the fruit of knowledge?
there are robust theodicies and philosophical defenses for this.
but from a logical standpoint, but the burden lies with the skeptic to show that no possible justification could exist when presenting the problem of evil, so a shrug works just as well.
>Did God know Satan would get eve to eat the apple?
yes.
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519190269 >>519190553
>>519189849
Epicurus cannot perceived the idea of the world being a dark soul game, and for God to be a loli NEET.
HuperGnome (ID: lIuRPp+v) United States No.519190463
>>519190243
he made the tree to show that there is magic in listening. Listen, and be changed, for good or ill.
Anonymous (ID: Ba5kdngq) Australia No.519190494 >>519190773
>>519183303 (OP)
>an Eternal, Infinite Being who subsists beyond the reaches of logic and reason must conform to limited, finite human conceptions of logic and reason!
fucking hell what a midwit
Anonymous (ID: npu6PgKN) Kazakhstan No.519190532
>>519183303 (OP)
but what if the god is actually evil?
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519190553
>>519190269
i finished reading this japanese light novel series called torture princess: fremd torturchen yesterday.
you'd really like it. it has psycho lolis in frilly clothes, ultraviolence and theological/philosophical depth. it's a tale of redemption of beautiful flowery prose and there's a torrential downpour of rain of blood and viscera in every volume.
Anonymous (ID: kdCQrRk7) Russian Federation No.519190591 >>519190747
>>519183303 (OP)
Whatever happens they can always go into "god's ways are as mysterious" mode, literally cannot be beaten. I doubt there has ever a single case of faith beaten by logic, that can only happen in pretentious novels and reddit posts, so why bother
Anonymous (ID: n15dc2lx) Australia No.519190602
>>519183409
Holy cringe, imagine some chrigger making this... Sas
Anonymous (ID: n15dc2lx) Australia No.519190646 >>519192236
>>519189395
No
Anonymous (ID: ImOc5rAB) United States No.519190680 >>519192262
>>519189480
Go baptize some niggers I’m not going to read your walls of cope.
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519190747
>>519190591
Most of these so called "logical" man cannot even understand woman. What make them think they can understand God?
Anonymous (ID: n15dc2lx) Australia No.519190773
>>519190494
>an Eternal, Infinite Being who subsists beyond the reaches of logic and reason inspired instructions on not wearing two fabrics, cooking with human shit and demanded foreskins
Makes sense
Anonymous (ID: t9iwahuL) Slovakia No.519190911 >>519190967 >>519191123
>>519183409

False analogy. Mom, in this example has no power to make the candy healthy, that is why she must withhold it. But an all-powerful and all-knowing God should have the power to make an evil-less universe.
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519190967
>>519190911
Can you called a world with no woman good?
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519191123 >>519191588 >>519191877 >>519192972
>>519190911
>an all-powerful and all-knowing God should have the power to make an evil-less universe.
that depends on whether moral evil is logically avoidable in a world with free will.
if we assume that God values free will, then it's possible that in every feasible world where creatures are genuinely free, at least some will choose evil.
in that case, a world with free will and no evil might not be logically possible, even for an omnipotent being.
so the existence of evil doesn't contradict divine omnipotence or omnibenevolence.
Anonymous (ID: t9iwahuL) Slovakia No.519191588 >>519191743 >>519192462
>>519191123

This is perhaps a good argument for some man-made evil to exist. But it does nothing to explain the existence of natural evil, like diseases or catastrophes.
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519191743
>>519191588
Food taste the best when you are hungry.
Anonymous (ID: J9psMJ79) Germany No.519191877 >>519191984 >>519192462
>>519191123
>that depends on whether moral evil is logically avoidable in a world with free will.
Why wouldn't it be retard? Is your mental capacity so low you can't imagine a world without evil?
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519191984 >>519192036
>>519191877
Can you?
Anonymous (ID: J9psMJ79) Germany No.519192036 >>519192089
>>519191984
Yes, easily
It's an argument on the tier of "if you can't fly, you have no free will hurr"
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519192089 >>519192208
>>519192036
Nah. I doubt this utopia you imagined have some form of Free will. Probably just power fantasy where you are a God with no opposition.
Anonymous (ID: TXbh7tTD) United States No.519192191
>religion
>god
What is disingenuous framing of the dichotomy for 400 Alex?

There are religions with no god, and there are Gods without religion. Whether or not the latter are real, is what we’re talking about. Atheism can discern with 2 brain cells that clearly based on their own worldview there is a difference modally speaking between God and a religious institution. The Bible in specificity referring to the gospel doesn’t require religion to go to heaven. It merely requires a single instance of genuine belief that the gospel is merely true as it applies to said person in order to be classified as a Christian. There are several other β€œreligions” that do this as well, but kikes and atheists will pretend like Jesus wasn’t framing religion as being a symptom of a problem rather than a solution to an issue they won’t admit is real unless you deny God existing entirely.

Its not a strawman when you deliberately misrepresent a belief system knowing that it unironically agrees with atheism’s critique of religion simply because the atheists do not want to surrender morality to theism otherwise they have no ability to grift off of it.

99% of all real life instances where people derive their beliefs have little to do with morality because the subject is being discussed ad-hoc. Paradoxes can’t instantize and even if you make a well structured arguement, it doesn’t mean anything inherently if it’s even correct either.

Atheism will hinge on philosophy for concepts like truth, and when you call out its relativism it will try to hide behind rationalism pretending to be scientific when there is absolutely positively nothing about science regarding atheisms position that ISN’T presuppositions. Which renders their entire detraction moot.

The entire focus of atheism is religion. It’s not hard to see why neither of them actually address the subject. It’s a false dichotomy.
Anonymous (ID: J9psMJ79) Germany No.519192208 >>519192263
>>519192089
Whatever you say, mental midget
Anonymous (ID: LL99tWXa) New Zealand No.519192218 >>519192472
>>519183303 (OP)
This isn’t as good as you think it is. God is beyond good and evil; to think he is only yin and not yang - or vice versa, would mean to say that he does not encompass all things. You’re basically cutting out half of all possible things. Albeit, I don’t agree with them; but again, that doesn’t mean they don’t exist or can’t/won’t ever happen. This is the logic of a child.
HuperGnome (ID: lIuRPp+v) United States No.519192236
>>519190646
yes he did
HuperGnome (ID: lIuRPp+v) United States No.519192262
>>519190680
not an argument
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519192263 >>519192525
>>519192208
The world is perfect, and God is good.
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519192462 >>519192836
>>519191877
the question isn't whether or not we can imagine a world without evil, but whether or not such a world is logically feasible if creatures have genuine free will.
if in every possible world some free agents choose evil, then a world with free will and no evil might not be possible even for an omnipotent being.
>>519191588
is your position that it is logically impossible for there to be a justification for the existence of natural evils?
because if even one logically coherent justification exists (soul-making, epistemic distance, etc) then the trilemma is still dead.
HuperGnome (ID: lIuRPp+v) United States No.519192472
>>519192218
also, logically, we can't demand a contradiction and be mad at the others being contradictory. thry asked for a contradiction, but got one they didn't like one bit.

a good parent would give me an xbox

keep that up anf you'll get a spanking

mommy and daddy are BAD
HuperGnome (ID: lIuRPp+v) United States No.519192525
>>519192263
true, but the one on the left seems cuter, because of bashfulness.
Anonymous (ID: GtME8HLR) United States No.519192546 >>519192637
>>519183409
absolutely amazing
HuperGnome (ID: lIuRPp+v) United States No.519192637
>>519192546
topkek didn't see it. I kneel
Anonymous (ID: Fgk2Nz5W) United States No.519192642 >>519193247
>>519183303 (OP)
A kike made a gay chart!
Look for the gayness embedded in it!
Anonymous (ID: 2/uw9QNb) United States No.519192820
>>519187952
christspic doesn't know
Anonymous (ID: J9psMJ79) Germany No.519192836 >>519193123 >>519193179 >>519193222
>>519192462
>feasible if creatures have genuine free will
Oh look another mental midget. Maybe let's do a simple mindgame for a lesser version: do you think a world where people can't physically hurt each other and still have free will is possible?
Anonymous (ID: VnW3LeDG) Serbia No.519192972 >>519193308 >>519193377
>>519191123
>if we assume that God values free will, then it's possible that in every feasible world where creatures are genuinely free, at least some will choose evil.
So does heaven not have free will? Or does heaven have evil too, thus negating the whole point of heaven?
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519193123 >>519193321
>>519192836
i read a japanese light novel series where the world was like this called no game no life.
in it, violence is magically prohibited and all conflict is resolved through games (tic-tac-toe and stuff) instead.
it's a fun premise but it actually illustrates my point.
when physical harm is removed from the equation, moral choice becomes less about resisting evil and more about strategic advantage.

in such a world, people still lie, cheat, manipulate, and exploit others.
they just do it through non-violent means. so yes, you can imagine a world where physical harm is impossible, but that just reshapes evil rather than eliminating it.
and if free will is to include the capacity for morally significant choices, then removing consequences or constraints might actually undermine that freedom

would such a world preserve the moral weight of free will? that's the philosophical crux.
HuperGnome (ID: t2mS7Z0v) United States No.519193179
>>519192836
regardless, this is what midwits dom't understand:

if your premises contains a fallacy, then the argument is fallacious.
Anonymous (ID: CHC6fT2j) United States No.519193222
>>519192836
I'm pretty sure Jesus was a real person. I don't believe that he was the son of God or that he was the Messiah, but I do believe that he was a real person who was a good teacher who was crucified for his views.
Anonymous (ID: F6OZA9eX) Germany No.519193247
>>519192642
christcucks are so pitiful just like Mudlims and kikes
religion is a mind virus that rapes your mind
Anonymous (ID: d0fqqevA) Switzerland No.519193251 >>519193515
>>519183303 (OP)
Christ is king
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519193280 >>519196424
God vaguely appeared to me in my dream. So, that you people can keep calling me schizo instead of making me a prophet. I believe.
Anonymous (ID: RbxV3+L+) No.519193302 >>519193437
>>519183303 (OP)
Ha-ha religion. While leaders stealing gold with resources and fuck children the rest of the tribe gets religion ahahahahah
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519193308 >>519193562
>>519192972
>negating the whole point of heaven?
what do you think the point of heaven is?
>So does heaven not have free will? Or does heaven have evil too
my view on this is nascent and ultimately irrelevant to the trilemma
Anonymous (ID: J9psMJ79) Germany No.519193321 >>519193414 >>519193588
>>519193123
>yes, you can imagine a world where physical harm is impossible
Alright glad we established that. What about a world where people are incapable of lying and deceiving? What about a world where people simply forget evil thoughts milliseconds after so they never act on them?
Do you see where I'm going or are you too retarded to understand we're already incredibly biologically constrained when it comes to "muh free will"?
HuperGnome (ID: t2mS7Z0v) United States No.519193377 >>519193438
>>519192972
regardless, the initial question rests on a fallacy.

do you understand the consequence?

But regarding heaven and good, how is it good? because there can be no evil words possible.

the idea of free will isn't so necessary as some think.

essential sin, we think of like me INTP, or a similar INTJ, Perceive, Judge, both sin, because we want to be God, the perceiver to understan (truly hear) and the judge to take the place of judge - even judging rightly im the place where you don't belong is a sin, that there was any question ie hearing of evil.
Anonymous (ID: J9psMJ79) Germany No.519193414
>>519193321
Even accepting the premise that you need to KNOW what evil is to have free will, god could simply make humans not desire it. Just like you don't desire lots of things, there could be an innate human will not to commit evil. And there you go, everyone is not evil and has free will.
HuperGnome (ID: t2mS7Z0v) United States No.519193437
>>519193302
Perfect statement of myopic satanism.

you fool, you'll get eaten up by the others all the same.
Anonymous (ID: J9psMJ79) Germany No.519193438 >>519193610 >>519193618
>>519193377
>n, we think of like me INTP, or a similar INTJ
Ah you're one of those retards kek
Anonymous (ID: ZVTV90kp) United States No.519193460
>>519185742
>looks stupid to people who went to college and took logic
>W-w-we sat in this classroom and decided that you look stupid.
No one cares.
Anonymous (ID: CHC6fT2j) United States No.519193515 >>519193593
>>519193251
"if god is good then why did he create niggers? checkmate"
Anonymous (ID: VnW3LeDG) Serbia No.519193562 >>519194162
>>519193308
>what do you think the point of heaven is?
Perfect peace and happiness. The ultimate prize for a righteous life.
>my view on this is nascent and ultimately irrelevant to the trilemma
Oh, it's relevant. If heaven is has free will but no evil, it destroys your idea that the former implicates the latter. God CAN make Earth not have evil, but chose not to. Why?
Anonymous (ID: yrG6cLks) Latvia No.519193580
>>519189227
No, it's fun. Fat people are naturally the most stress resistant. Nothing you say hurts them.
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519193588
>>519193321
i see where you're going and you're actually helping clarify the issue.
you're pointing out that our biology already constrains behavior, which is true.
but constraints merely shape the context in which free will operates rather than eliminating it.

a world where people forget evil thoughts or can't lie might reduce the opportunity for wrongdoing, but it also raises the question "are those people truly free, or are they behaviorally engineered toward goodness?"
if moral virtue requires the possibility of choosing otherwise, then removing that possibility even through neurological design risks turning moral agents into moral automatons.

so yeah, we're biologically constrained, but we still deliberate, reflect, and override impulses. that's where morally significant freedom lives.
whether we retain the capacity for meaningful moral choice within those constraints rather than whether or not we're restrained should be the question.
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519193593 >>519193686
>>519193515
Knowing that "God is a girl" should answer all your question.
HuperGnome (ID: t2mS7Z0v) United States No.519193610
>>519193438
We're all one of those retards.

but so we'll lnow our level, do you understand the argument of op?

Do you understsnd there is a fallacy in the premises?

Do you understand what it means for an argument woth a fallacious premise?

the fallacy is, let there be a fallacy-god.

but if there is a fallacy-god as entertained, do you see what also gains a "fallacy card"? everything.

so anything can be said next as being based om anything else, now that we accept into premises fallavies.

>but this is the only fallacy I like

logic eats your feelings for breakfast.
Anonymous (ID: yrG6cLks) Latvia No.519193618
>>519193438
>doesn't know about the jungian archetypes
HuperGnome (ID: d22PZRVB) United States No.519193686 >>519193738 >>519193747
>>519193593
can't be, a woman's job is to obey.
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519193738
>>519193686
A man job is to satisfy woman, and dance for them.
Anonymous (ID: CHC6fT2j) United States No.519193747 >>519194055
>>519193686
what if god was a femdom hot anime girl?
Anonymous (ID: M/shqF36) United States No.519194029 >>519194125 >>519194136
>>519183303 (OP)
>the pic: boy fucker logic
Oh boy a midwit thread! Let's all act like we can easily out think God and then pop over to the next thread to lament how the jews destroyed us so easily with media.
HuperGnome (ID: d22PZRVB) United States No.519194055
>>519193747
idk, I'm not gay.
Anonymous (ID: TDZREVAZ) United States No.519194125 >>519194253
>>519194029
Anonymous (ID: CHC6fT2j) United States No.519194136
>>519194029
the cancer that is killing the world is religion
you dumb slavenigger worshiping kikes will really make anything better
Anonymous (ID: hSwnVC5o) Chile No.519194161
>>519183409
>memefaggot destroyed by memeflag
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519194162 >>519194490 >>519194543
>>519193562
heaven as traditionally conceived isn't a starting point though, it's the culmination.
if it's populated by beings who've already freely chosen good and been morally transformed, then its peace completes the free will defense rather than contradict it.
the absence of evil in heaven doesn't prove that evil was unnecessary on earth, it may show that moral growth through freedom was necessary before that state could be reached.
if it's logically impossible for all free creatures to always choose good in every feasible world then evil is a consequence of valuing freedom rather than a flaw.

my (still forming) view on the afterlife within the Christian framework is very different from yours and the traditional one though as an aside.
Anonymous (ID: txp/XFU0) United States No.519194209
>>519185587
The argument contains a strawman. It is itself a mockery.
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519194253 >>519194275
>>519194125
>the thumbnail
quintessential leftist meme
Anonymous (ID: TDZREVAZ) United States No.519194275
>>519194253
You follow a semite cult lel
Anonymous (ID: VnW3LeDG) Serbia No.519194490 >>519195628
>>519194162
>if it's populated by beings who've already freely chosen good and been morally transformed
What do you mean by morally transformed? We're all sinners, right? Christians just get to go to Heaven since they repented for theirs, but that doesn't mean they won't sin in the future. If you go to heaven as-is, you're bound to make a mistake and sin at some point. Or does heaven have some special quality that prevents this from happening?
Anonymous (ID: J9psMJ79) Germany No.519194543
>>519194162
do babies in heaven have no free will? damn
Anonymous (ID: csl13zcZ) United States No.519194619 >>519196086
>>519183409
OP BTFO

>>519183563
>it''s not old
neither is any other religion. They have all changed drastically.

>>519186271
Anonymous (ID: L3WYe/tC) United States No.519194629 >>519194765 >>519195507 >>519195781
>>519185587
The Epicurean "paradox" and similar arguments boil down to two arguments. The first is simply "well, if I were god I would have done things differently." This is foolish in light of the second, which is some form the Epicurean paradox, all essentially the same schoolyard question "can god make a rock so heavy he can't lift it?" No, no he cant. An omnipotent being is not bound by absurdity.
So even if you personally were god, you couldn't make the would in the way you claim you would have.
Anonymous (ID: J9psMJ79) Germany No.519194765 >>519194859 >>519194946
>>519194629
no, it boils down to the question "if god all loving and good, why he create evil?" which is such a simple question even toddlers can understand it, but christcucks still haven't found an answer to within the span of millenia
Anonymous (ID: RbxV3+L+) No.519194838
If there is god then I reject it. I exercise my free will and turn away from god. For this god is a sadistic psychopathic cruel fuck who enjoys suffering, who enjoys tormenting innocent. All the hardship our world has come through, all the deaths, famine, diseases, torture, mindless cruelty, destructive dirty subhuman races procreating like tomorrow never comes and breeding exponentially instead of dying in dirt like they should, innocent animals that committed no sin suffering cruelty of humanity inflicting upon them.
If god exist god could have stop this. But he never did and never will.
I will not worship a god like this. I turn away from such an evil cruel being. If god exist I will rather look for a way to kill it than worship it.
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519194859 >>519195075 >>519195912
>>519194765
The answer is always simple. Why not?
Anonymous (ID: L3WYe/tC) United States No.519194946 >>519195188
>>519194765
> "if god all loving and good, why he create evil?
This is not the core of the argument, it emotional manipulation. And the problem of evil is a difficult question, its true. But lines of reasoning like the Epicurean paradox are stupid.
Anonymous (ID: TDZREVAZ) United States No.519195075 >>519195131
>>519194859
>All good
>Creates non good
Logic is still the bane of christ niggers
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519195131 >>519196021
>>519195075
Define Good. My God is literally perfection.
Anonymous (ID: J9psMJ79) Germany No.519195188 >>519195484
>>519194946
>why did god create evil? isn't he an all-benevolent being?
>NOOO YOU'RE EMOTIONALLY MANIPULATING ME
lmao
Anonymous (ID: beNB6FwD) France No.519195427 >>519196074
>>519185643
>Christian (lactantius) who sockpuppeted epicurus into saying it
This doesn't diminish the Epicuro's arguments.
Also Lactantio never directly criticized Epicuro's arguments about Gods, but Lucetio instead (theism vs meterialism...).

>Epicuro btfo every theists, even being a theist himself.
Epicuro believed in the Gods (there were multiple Gods in Elysium and Hades back then), but he successfully argued that the Gods don't care about any mere mortals, or only to play sadistically with them like a cat with a mouse.

>to play sadistically with them like a cat with a mouse.
Like Judeo-Christian God in fact : Testing human's faith, drown or infect most of humans, letting entire human population being slaughtered, etc.).
Anonymous (ID: L3WYe/tC) United States No.519195484 >>519195699
>>519195188
God, in a way similar to mathematics, in not bound by absurdity. Understand this and the fact that God is not a superman up in they sky, and you'll be on your way to being able to discuss things like this.
Anonymous (ID: QCi8NCdE) Serbia No.519195507
>>519194629
So your best rebuttal is "trust me bro". Good one.
Anonymous (ID: UKoAVJrQ) United States No.519195598
>>519183303 (OP)
God is evil or Evil isn't objective. Simple as
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519195628 >>519196252 >>519198687
>>519194490
there are few misconceptions you have i'd need to unpack to really address this.

Jesus coming back from the dead wasn't the significant part of the gospel. lots of other people came back from the dead in scripture (lazarus, jairus' daughter, etc) craig keener's book series "miracles" documents 100 other recorded cases of people coming back from the dead with peer reviewed empirical data.
what was significant about Jesus coming back from the dead was that it was a resurrection rather than a simple resuscitation.
a resuscitation is temporary, it's a return to mortal life, still subject to decay and death.
resurrection on the other than is permanent, it's the entrance into a glorified incorruptible state.
that's why paul calls Jesus the "firstfruits," not just the first to come back but the first to be raised into the kind of life that never ends and never sins.
this matters for our discussion about heaven and sin. because the Christian hope isn't that we go to a nice place called "heaven" as our current sinful selves. it's that we undergo the same kind of transformation Jesus did, a resurrection into a new glorified and uncorruptible nature.

so to answer your question directly, yes, heaven does have a "special quality that prevents this from happening"
that quality is the complete moral transformation of its inhabitants.
we aren't just forgiven sinners trying our best not to slip up, we're remade in the image of the "last adam," Jesus (1 Cor 15:45-49).
the very capacity for sin is healed. free will remains, but it is a will that has been perfectly aligned with God's goodness through the process of redemption and resurrection.
it's not that we can't sin, it's that we won't sin, because our nature has been fully restored to what it was always meant to be.

this world is the realm where free will, with all its risks, makes that transformation possible.
the new heaven and new earth is the realm where that transformation is fully realized.
Anonymous (ID: UKoAVJrQ) United States No.519195644
>>519183409
You can talk to mummy not yahweh
Anonymous (ID: J9psMJ79) Germany No.519195699
>>519195484
>good christian physically can't fathom not committing evil to the point where he discards it as "absurdity"
LMAO
Anonymous (ID: UKoAVJrQ) United States No.519195702 >>519195807
>>519187526
Yet you didn't Refute it
Anonymous (ID: UKoAVJrQ) United States No.519195781
>>519194629
The real question is if God could defin Good without Evil or is evil a necessity.
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519195807 >>519196173
>>519195702
What's there to refute?
Anonymous (ID: DMi0qeZO) United States No.519195844 >>519195969 >>519196434
>>519183303 (OP)
Personally, I'm of the opinion that God is both Good and Evil and isn't obliged to help us.
Anonymous (ID: KvLlB1sN) United States No.519195912 >>519196098
>>519194859
Yes it's called engineering over the decades. Your implying Yahweh had to fine tune humans through discovery. Peak pseud
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519195969
>>519195844
you're on the right track once you realize evil is just a privation of good
Anonymous (ID: TDZREVAZ) United States No.519196021
>>519195131
>Good
>Not good
Anonymous (ID: TDZREVAZ) United States No.519196074 >>519196434
>>519195427
Nigger, epicurus was nearly 4 centuries before the invented of christ niggery
Anonymous (ID: lpVxnK57) Slovakia No.519196086 >>519196193
>>519194619
Kvetchmeister
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519196098 >>519196248
>>519195912
All techonologies are nothing but a puzzle pieces. All knowledge is a discovery, not an invention. Humans are incapable of true Creation.

https://youtu.be/klS4KZwRUJ4
Anonymous (ID: x8AtkabS) United States No.519196160
>>519183999
>Was pain, suffering, evil all part of God's plan? No, it wasn't.
I thought your god was all-knowing. I guess that was just a lie.
Anonymous (ID: LJrVbV1T) United States No.519196173
>>519195807
God being omniscient would not plant the tree of knowledge or endow humans with intelligence that didn't require defiance. The previous poster didn't address this
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519196193 >>519197220 >>519197296
>>519196086
Anonymous (ID: LJrVbV1T) United States No.519196248 >>519196407
>>519196098
So your robot analogy is fallacious and a strawman. Also I guess anime isn't real and simply humans copying nature in a truly lower dimension sense. Thanks
Anonymous (ID: VnW3LeDG) Serbia No.519196252 >>519196474 >>519196938
>>519195628
>it's not that we can't sin, it's that we won't sin, because our nature has been fully restored to what it was always meant to be.
So, when you go to Heaven, you're fundamentally altered as a person to the point it becomes 'in your nature' to do things God wants you to do. This does not sound like free will in the least, anon. It sounds like brainwashing.
Anonymous (ID: SXTI8qa8) United Kingdom No.519196269
>>519183303 (OP)
>1pbtid
>memeflag
>ragebait slide thread
>273 replies
(((mission accomplished)))
Anonymous (ID: ITRpv/0v) United Kingdom No.519196360
>>519183409
It's fucking embarrassing the amount of retards who think this is a refutation. "Mummy" doesn't claim she is all powerful, and all knowing, you dumb fucks.
Anonymous (ID: Ha7YVyZA) United States No.519196375
>>519183303 (OP)
Classic pol
Anonymous (ID: W8aeAezR) United States No.519196382 >>519196520
>>519186056
He didn't zutt it he buckaroo the Abrahamic religions like a chink reaching into a philosophical lathe. You are retarded
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519196407
>>519196248
As usual. You can do nothing but throwing emotional tantrum.
Anonymous (ID: q3vmlqtw) United States No.519196424 >>519196547
>>519193280
>keep calling me schizo
Anonymous (ID: beNB6FwD) France No.519196434 >>519196548 >>519198858
>>519195844
>God is both Good and Evil and isn't obliged to help us.
So why would you pray for this God ?
Would you love a friend or a father or a mother if they never show you any affection ?

>>519196074
Where did I say Epicurus discussed directly with Lactantio ?
Lactantio argued against the materialists, and never really succeed because no one can with logic arguments ("trust me bro, God is good" is not an argument).

Also, calling someone Nigger to counter an argument, ty.
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519196474 >>519196577 >>519196916 >>519199261
>>519196252
it's healing, not brainwashing.
sin is a distortion of the will.
we were created to desire the good, but that desire got twisted.
grace liberates our freedom rather than overriding it, it restores the will to its original purpose, loving God and neighbor freely and joyfully.
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519196520
>>519196382
>mup da doo didda bidda be dat po mo gub bix nood muhfugga
if you say so.
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519196547 >>519196607
>>519196424
In all Heaven and Earth
In all that existed and will exist for all of Eternity

I, alone, am the chosen One of God.
Anonymous (ID: TDZREVAZ) United States No.519196548 >>519196773
>>519196434
>Epicurus is a sockpuppet for lactantio
Retard
Anonymous (ID: q3vmlqtw) United States No.519196577 >>519196926
>>519196474
>not brainwashing
>goes on to explain how he's brainwashed
Anonymous (ID: q3vmlqtw) United States No.519196607 >>519196681 >>519196720 >>519196817 >>519198564 >>519198879 >>519199006 >>519199103 >>519199154 >>519199389
>>519196547
This is literally you
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519196681 >>519196720
>>519196607
This is literally my wife.
Anonymous (ID: q3vmlqtw) United States No.519196720 >>519196800
>>519196681
>>519196607
Anonymous (ID: beNB6FwD) France No.519196773 >>519197002
>>519196548
>Doesn't refute Epicuro's claim
Retard
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519196800 >>519196817
>>519196720
Newton predicted 2060 AD to be the Apocalypse.
Anonymous (ID: jNl/Pbqy) United States No.519196808 >>519196900
>>519183409
Asking why an omnipotent all loving being would allow children to die of cancer is not the same as a toddler screaming for candy in a grocery store.
Anonymous (ID: 7YhAp2vy) United States No.519196815
>>519183303 (OP)
There is no good and evil, there is just balance.
This is how nature operates.
Anonymous (ID: q3vmlqtw) United States No.519196817
>>519196800
>>519196607
Anonymous (ID: dc3HJbqd) Brazil No.519196820
>>519183409
FPBP
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519196900 >>519197118
>>519196808
What is dead to an immortal being?
Anonymous (ID: VnW3LeDG) Serbia No.519196916 >>519197066
>>519196474
>we were created to desire the good, but that desire got twisted.
Anon, your claims aren't consistent in the least. Is Earth, as it exists right now, a necessary testing ground for growth, or is it a deviation from God’s original intent? It cannot be both.
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519196926 >>519197647
>>519196577
i guess it is washing your brain in a sense, in that it removes the dirt and shit from it.
Anonymous (ID: aqERqhIa) Germany No.519196938
>>519196252
Lol If you love sin so much as to identify yourself with it then you belong in hell to learn a lesson for retards. Le heckerino if i dont want to rape, steal or kill then i am brainwashed lmao.
Anonymous (ID: TDZREVAZ) United States No.519197002
>>519196773
Weird how nobody claimed that, retard. Cope harder christ nigger
Anonymous (ID: vjQoxYlV) Spain No.519197054
>does God want to prevent evil
>Then God is not loving/not good
This has been proven false again and again, evil can be permitted if it allows for a greater good
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519197066 >>519197416
>>519196916
>Is Earth, as it exists right now, a necessary testing ground for growth, or is it a deviation from God’s original intent? It cannot be both.
it can and it is.
earth is a deviation in that sin wasn't a part of God's desire for us, but it's also the necessary context for growth, because real love and transformation require freedom, and freedom allows for failure.
God's intent is being fulfilled through redemption and wasn't bypassed by sin.
Anonymous (ID: h+ph1ErQ) Germany No.519197077
>>519183303 (OP)
Good thread. Insane christ niggers can't answer simple questions. They piss and shit themselves when asked why God creates disabled babies for example
Anonymous (ID: jNl/Pbqy) United States No.519197118 >>519197261
>>519196900
>No ma'am your child that wasted away and died in the prime of their youth isn't dead. It's all part of gods grand plan and your child will be resurrected soon when Jesus comes back. Until then I can't prove any of this though so you just have to trust me.
>When? Uhhh well we can't be sure but probably in about two weeks.
Anonymous (ID: lpVxnK57) Slovakia No.519197220 >>519197511
>>519196193
Lmao
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519197261 >>519197385 >>519197421
>>519197118
What is death to an immortal being?
Anonymous (ID: P43ITnUH) No.519197268
>>519183303 (OP)
Simple. I accept what the Bible says. God created the good and the evil.

https://biblehub.com/isaiah/45-7.htm

The Epicurean paradox is some kind of false dichotomy and also many people are teaching that God is good as if he's Good only.

He's not. The universe is a place of both justice and injustice, good and evil, and god is above all of it.

If God was evil this place would be non-stop hell without a single moment of beauty, grace, love, etc.

If he was only good there wouldn't be so much suffering, disease, depravity, etc. in the world.

The fact is the world is the way it is and god is the way he is. People who want to say God is omnibenevolent are just wrong.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
Anonymous (ID: MeXvjNP0) United States No.519197277
>>519184049
>Good news though. This system of pain in suffering is almost over.

Isn't it against your religion to peruse 4chan?
Anonymous (ID: lpVxnK57) Slovakia No.519197296 >>519197681
>>519196193
Also
Anonymous (ID: jNl/Pbqy) United States No.519197385 >>519197450
>>519197261
Oh noooo not the judeo-greek-zoroastrian magic minecraft lava land. Spare me! I didn't mean to question your holy book and now I will weep and gnash my teeth forever a bloobloobloo.
Anonymous (ID: P43ITnUH) No.519197390
>>519183999
Isiah would like to have a word with you. Your take is all retarded.
Anonymous (ID: VnW3LeDG) Serbia No.519197416 >>519197511
>>519197066
How do you say these things with a straight face? By this logic, sin isn't a deviation, it's part of the plan. The Fall wasn't a tragedy, it was a necessary step in the process. God WANTS you to sin, because sin leads to growth.
Anonymous (ID: beNB6FwD) France No.519197421 >>519197660
>>519197261
Stop praying for that immortal being.
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519197450
>>519197385
You did not answer my question. What is Death to an IMMORTAL BEING???
Anonymous (ID: P43ITnUH) No.519197468 >>519197598
>>519185062
Free will means god isn't omnipotent and doesn't control everything.
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519197511 >>519197652
>>519197220
>easter is pagan
>halloween is pagan
goofy
>>519197416
God doesn't want sin, he permits it because He values freedom.
the fall was tragic but redemption proves it wasn't final.
sin isn't good, but God can bring good out of it.
Anonymous (ID: GQhzwzHW) United States No.519197539
>>519183409
Possibly the best post by a memeflag ever
Anonymous (ID: yjahzlOk) Belgium No.519197563
>>519183303 (OP)
>could god have created a universe with free-will but without evil?
that question doesn't make sense. If you don't allow your creation to make its own choice whether to be good or evil, they have no free will
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519197598
>>519197468
omnipotence means God can control everything, not that He must.
Anonymous (ID: q3vmlqtw) United States No.519197647
>>519196926
>more cult cope.
Sure anon, whatever works for you
Anonymous (ID: VnW3LeDG) Serbia No.519197652 >>519197770
>>519197511
Christ, anon, you are a complete headache to talk to. This is going nowhere, but at least the thread will shit itself and die soon so I guess it doesn't really matter.
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519197660 >>519197975
>>519197421
Why should I do that?
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519197681
>>519197296
you will never be a real woman.
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519197770 >>519198060 >>519198082
>>519197652
the headache you're experiencing is known as cognitive dissonance.
you see that my points are solid and unassailable, yet you refuse to abandon the position you're devoted to that says they're wrong.
Anonymous (ID: beNB6FwD) France No.519197975 >>519198187 >>519199187
>>519197660
Because that immortal being doesn't care of any mere mortals.
He created us, then tested there faith in him with some weird phallic animal, then kicked us from heaven, then drown most of us, then let some of us slaugtered others, then infected some with plague, etc.

Like a cat playing sadistically with it's prey.
Anonymous (ID: VnW3LeDG) Serbia No.519198060 >>519198128 >>519198506
>>519197770
No, anon, the headache comes from watching you contradict yourself repeatedly because you barely remember what you said ten minutes ago. You argue for a heaven with free will, then give arguments about how it doesn't actually have free will, then pretend you've discovered something smart. It is exhausting.
Anonymous (ID: q3vmlqtw) United States No.519198082 >>519198506
>>519197770
>the headache you're experiencing is known as cognitive dissonance
Nice self own bud
>you see that my points are solid and unassailable,
And the cow jumped over the moon. My point is solid and unassailable

Truth is. It doesn't make logical sense if you claim your God is all loving and all good.
Anonymous (ID: q3vmlqtw) United States No.519198128
>>519198060
Exactly this
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519198187 >>519198326
>>519197975
You just give me a reason to pray some more.
Anonymous (ID: TF++SlQB) Australia No.519198218
>>519183303 (OP)
God gives us free will so that we will love Him freely. We also do evil freely. Really this is basic Catholic catechism 101.
Anonymous (ID: O2i3FRvT) No.519198306
>>519183303 (OP)
>>519183303 (OP)
>>519183303 (OP)
Reminder that the "no tail" posts are made by VPN niggers of a troon squad from iDrama and Valent Projects cuckademics to normalize furfag degeneracy across the board.
Same trannies who shill for Jewkraine and make the /uhg/ threads btw.
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/518123762/#518129824
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/518281658/#518287969
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/518256371/#518256990
Anonymous (ID: q3vmlqtw) United States No.519198326 >>519198466
>>519198187
>can't wait to get on my knees
I bet, ladyboy Gook. Talk about penis some more lol
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519198466 >>519198564
>>519198326
Just stop having a mutilated dick, then I won't have to talk about it.
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519198506 >>519198604 >>519198702
>>519198060
you're mistaking nuance for contradiction. i've consistently said heaven involves free will, just not the kind that's perpetually tempted by sin.
a will healed by grace isn't less free, it's finally free.
if that exhausts you, maybe it's the implications rather than the argument.
>>519198082
ghost of mesa is a queer
Anonymous (ID: q3vmlqtw) United States No.519198564 >>519198811
>>519198466
>Talk about penis some more lol
Right on queue.
This is you btw
>>519196607
Anonymous (ID: q3vmlqtw) United States No.519198604
>>519198506
>chasing a ghost
Kek
Anonymous (ID: r+hm+Ha+) Netherlands No.519198687 >>519198853
>>519195628
have you ever stopped to ask your self why any of this matters?
the reason people start thinking about moral decisions, creating a distinction between right or wrong is because of human nature and guilty conscience. we've all said or done things we regret and would never want to repeat. we're all just wasting time, being selfish egoists instead of productive assets to our overlords. if you spend too much time thinking about this stuff, your sin is pride and you are a fullblown, unrestrained sinner. unless you happen to be a priest ordained by God to spread his will? if people knew their place the world wouldn't be such a mess and we could just get along
Anonymous (ID: q3vmlqtw) United States No.519198702
>>519198506
>you're mistaking nuance for contradiction
Not really. You legit contradict yourself a lot
>a will healed by grace isn't less free, it's finally free
Free to do what ever God wants them to?
>inb4 it's because I want to do what God wants me to do
There lies the brainwashing contradiction
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519198811 >>519198879
>>519198564
Keep lying, and being inaccurated in your insult. Your tribe cut your dick for thinking themselves super special, and that's why you have mutilated dick.
Anonymous (ID: mKt3kLO5) United States No.519198853 >>519198946 >>519199213
>>519198687
this would've been a great post to interact with and i have a lot to say here, but thread's dead
Anonymous (ID: r+hm+Ha+) Netherlands No.519198858 >>519199187
>>519196434
>So why would you pray for this God ?
because He is almighty, wise, powerful and a based God. which you, are not. you're a human asset. bundled together you resemble some form of power, but never quite powerful enough
Anonymous (ID: q3vmlqtw) United States No.519198879 >>519198960
>>519198811
This is you after I bet you in chess
>>519196607
Anonymous (ID: q3vmlqtw) United States No.519198946 >>519199055
>>519198853
>and i have a lot to say here,
Just more contradictions so it's nothing useful
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519198960 >>519199006
>>519198879
Mutilated cattle with brain damage.
Anonymous (ID: q3vmlqtw) United States No.519199006
>>519198960
This is you right now, literally you
>>519196607
Lmao
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519199055 >>519199103 >>519199154
>>519198946
You enjoy the insult, don't you? It's bexause you are a cancer that grow on negative enerfy.
Anonymous (ID: q3vmlqtw) United States No.519199103 >>519199141
>>519199055
>you are a cancer that grow on negative enerfy.
>>519196607
Lmao
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519199141 >>519199248
>>519199103
All anti-christ will go to Hell. It is written.
Anonymous (ID: q3vmlqtw) United States No.519199154 >>519199300
>>519199055
>enerfy
Is that what you Gooks call this?
>>519196607
Lel
Anonymous (ID: beNB6FwD) France No.519199187
>>519198858
>because He is almighty, wise, powerful and a based God.

>>519197975


He created us, then tested there faith in him with some weird phallic animal, then kicked us from heaven, then drown most of us, then let some of us slaugtered others, then infected some with plague, etc.

Like a cat playing sadistically with it's prey.
Anonymous (ID: r+hm+Ha+) Netherlands No.519199213
>>519198853
son of a bitch
Anonymous (ID: q3vmlqtw) United States No.519199248 >>519199378 >>519199429
>>519199141
>anti-christ
>10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Anonymous (ID: HHm+oe/M) United States No.519199261
>>519196474
Why not provide the healing before that imbecile?
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519199300 >>519199389
>>519199154
That's my hand and my leg. Get it right
Anonymous (ID: DghabjnA) No.519199378 >>519199429
>>519199248
>Not everyone who says to me, β€˜Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, β€˜Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, β€˜I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Anonymous (ID: q3vmlqtw) United States No.519199389
>>519199300
>That's my hand and my leg
Now do yoir eyes and hair, Gook
>>519196607
>same skin color too
Kek GOOK!
Anonymous United States No.519199429
>>519199378
>but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
>>519199248
>11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
See you in heaven Gook