Thread 520830899

The biggest win I have seen in Christianity in a long time.

The headline is incorrect. The DDF's statement affirms the correct theology behind the title, but explains that it is imprudent to use it. The DDF and Pope Leo have not issued a statement saying that the title, used correctly, is theological error.

>>520830899 (OP)
>jesus' role in saving humanity
Thanks Jesus

>>520831160
Nice seethe. Mary is not co redeemer, she was a sinner saved by grace. Get saved or go away

Imagine praying to a w*man. Catholic cucks are something else man.

>>520831465
It depends. If general AI achieves consciousness that means it has a soul. So there are only possible scenarios where an ai becomes ensouled and achieves consciousness. Either God ensouls it, or an already extant soul is placed within it. And the second scenario can only be angelology, demonology, or necromancy based on the specific extant soul placed within it. I suppose there is a fourth case of soul transference from a living human where you get a lawnmower man type scenario, but it’s debatable if that still counts as necromancy.

>>520831928
AI is just taytweets scaled up. It will always be a chatbot.

>>520830899 (OP)
protestants think this is something controversial in Catholic Church. It really isn't. I don't see that being argued about nowhere else outside of /pol/

>>520831928
It doesn't matter if it will have a independent thought or not. It will work against you and that was the plan since the beginning. Its a DARPA project after all.

>>520831913
You pray to a jew.

>>520832169
Do not fall for glownigger divide & conquer tactics.

Christianity is the definition of "right wing" political ideology:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_political_spectrum#Origins_in_the_French_Revolution

Christianity has always been a racist religion:
>"Oh, race of Franks, race from across the mountains, race chosen and beloved [...]"
>"the kingdom of the Persians, an accursed race, a race utterly alienated from God [...]"
- https://www2.cbn.com/article/church/pope-urban-iis-speech-calling-first-crusade

The racist and anti-semitic Confederates have always been Christian.
The National Socialists used the Celtic cross and gave out iron cross medals for bravery. The white term for "swastika" is hakenkreuz, meaning hooked cross.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakenkreuzbanner

Here's a growing list of Christian political commentators who are racist and anti-semitic:
- https://rentry.org/Deus_Vult
Feel free to reply to this post with others.

Educate boomers irl. If you don't preach to them, the anti-Christian kikes will:
- https://news.antiwar.com/2025/10/06/israel-to-spend-up-to-4-1-million-in-propaganda-campaign-targeting-american-christians/
israeli nationalism ("zionism") is a heresy:
- https://youtu.be/GKlT-hhZXoM&t=658s
- https://youtu.be/odNoExd8a5U
- https://youtu.be/rp92-3aBL-A
The "holocaust" (burnt offering) is a lie made up by kikes, both soviet and freemason:
- https://rumble.com/c/ScriptureandTraditionFrJM/videos
Boycott israeli products:
- https://bdsmovement.net

Common glownigger talking points:
>"jesus is a kike"
The word "kike" comes from "kikel", which means circle. The kikes hate the cross so much, they would sign documents with a circle, hence the nickname.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plus_and_minus_signs#Alternative_plus_sign
>"off topic"
Reminder the pope is the monarch of a country. In fact in many white nations there is no separation between church and state.

>>520832113
I’m saying that if a true ai is developed then that necessarily means it has a soul since soul and consciousness are inextricable. If you have a soul you have consciousness. And since only God can create new souls, I described the possible scenarios in which a conscious ai could be ensouled, either with a demon, an angel, or a human soul.

>>520830899 (OP)
MARY SAAR
DO NOT REDEEM
BLOODY MARY

>you should join one of the ancient apostolic churches with 2000 years of unbroken tradition and history!
whooa cool
>we teach mary worship and aerial tollhouses
yeah i'll stick to my dominos pizza building that was converted into a baptist church

>>520832132
>protestants think this is something controversial in Catholic Church. It really isn't. I don't see that being argued about nowhere else outside of /pol/

Yep. And protestants as always over-estimate how many Marians are in the Catholic community. I've went my whole life and never once heard anyone refer to Mary as a "Co-Redeemer". I've only heard of this concept because of this story.

I imagine the Protestant butthurt will be strong when they realise Catholics will still continue to honour Mary and have statues of her lol.

>>520830899 (OP)
i'm catholic and the overzealousness for mary and the saints makes me uncomfortable

I don’t understand the Mary thing and I’m Catholic. I was never exposed to this as a kid. I was taught the Hail Mary and that’s it. I’m not saying saints shouldn’t be venerated like Protestants or even that she’s not the greatest saint, I just genuinely don’t understand this bizarre drive to make it the centerpiece of Christianity. If you read the gospels she frankly just isn’t that big of a character.

>>520834421
> Yep. And protestants as always over-estimate how many Marians are in the Catholic community.
They’re really loud online and in general the trad cath community is really gay and annoying, and you can’t even talk to them because they support Vatican II somehow despite claiming to be trad

>>520834165
> aerial tollhouses
Is this the orthodox thing?

>>520830899 (OP)
""Tradcaths"" (who are so divergent from the RCC as it actually exists they might as well be Mormon) seething.

>>520832339
Bad bot

>>520835474
It would be funny if this was the thing that finally got them to reject Vatican II

>>520835330
>Trad Cath community
Found the issue then. Pro-Tip: If someone self-identifies as 'Trad' they are always never traditional. Actual traditionalists don't call themselves traditional, they just call themselves normal.

>>520834421
>lmao my idolatry is soooo funny.

>>520830899 (OP)
They haven't changed their Mariology, just stopped used certain terms due to confusion they caused.

>>520834421
>and have statues of her lol.
and bowing down to her, and lighting candles to her, and praying to her etc.
its idol worship in its purest form.

protestants are going to hell lol

>>520835608
Nonsensical post. Labels come into existence when they are necessary. You can say it SHOULDNT be necessary because the church should just enforce traditional Catholicism but it’s not.

>>520835640
>>520835774
There’s no point talking to Protestants.

>>520835140
>I'm an uncatechized Catholic
>but let me tell you about the Faith
you guys are even more annoying than the Trads lol

>>520832132
both have worse scandals than what they could be, not the scandals that just end up promoting your existence and having you fail up like how Trump's done it. Both are not in the Bible and therefore just societal constructs, of course.

>>520835917
>I have no argument to defend my sinning besides my church told me to
We know.

>>520835989
Never said that. Why are you lying?

>>520836116
There’s no point talking to Protestants

>>520835989
Catholic Church publishes its doctrines freely for everybody to read, at least if you can read Latin.

Next thing you'll be telling me I have to be a Jew to criticize Talmudic Judaism. Because that's what you just did, you see.

>>520836184
You’re in a cult, dude.
>Jesus died for a sins but it’s confessing to the old man in the box that molests kids that really saves me. Also Mary also died for our sins lmao.
You should actually read the Bible instead of just listening to what some pedophile tells you.

>>520835640
Lmao no the protestant reaction is what's funny. They think prayer = worship.

>>520835774
>Bowing down to her
Bowing in prayer, not to her.

>Lighting candles
A symbol of prayer, not worship

>Praying to her
Yes. Prayer isn't worship. Worship is worship. All worship involves prayer, but not every prayer involves worship. Verbal speech isn't worship. But you can use speech for worship. Same thing, prayer/speech is just a medium of communication.

And what Catholics communicate to Mary in prayer is petition, asking for prayers. Same spirit as asking your own mother or father or brother or friend to pray for you in this life.

That's why it's funny to see protestants seethe over it because it reveals how little they actually believe the faith. If they had solid belief, they'd know that those in Heaven are not dead, they are more than alive. They'd know asking a Saint or Mary to pray for them is exactly like asking someone on Earth to pray for them.

But protestants don't see it this way, because they don't actually believe those in Heaven are alive. They passively feel Heaven is dead. They are closet atheists.

>>520836282
Imagine a Protestant calling anything a cult. Beyond parody

>>520836116
If you could bring something new to the table after five centuries of being btfo on every theological debate you've ever been in, we might care more about what you have to say

>>520835917
you have no biblical foundation to justify praying to Mary instead of God.

>>520836387
This is the biggest cope I have ever read, holy shit.
>I’m not worshipping her, I’m just getting down on my knees and praying for her to forgive my sins
Genuinely dude, get a grip.

>>520831160
This is correct. Protestant fags taking a break from their smoke machines and guitars to misunderstand the Church--again.

>>520836158
I said it.
>>520836275
The Catechism is available in basically every language you can imagine.

>>520830899 (OP)
This shit is pure boomer cringe. Argue over jews more goy

>>520836526
>praying for her to forgive my sins
See that right there is that classic Protestant flavour of seethe. Protties actually think Catholics ask Mary for forgiveness lmao.

Protestants really enjoy discerning the prayers of others on their behalf for them. It's hilariously unhinged.

>>520836415
>>520836408
>>520836387
I will start taking you Catholics seriously when you actually read the Bible. Until then how about you leave everything to the real Christians

>>520836526
>praying for her to forgive my sins
Lie

at what point do we stop considering protestants to be Christians? I mean they are so far removed from ANYTHING resembling Christianity that they should just be there own religion at this point, no? Where in Christianity does it say to have a fog machine and go to church just to listen to some random faggot preach to you for an hour? When did protestants decide that they dont need to repent their sins anymore?

>>520835839
No, only fully calvinistic greedy assholes

>>520836628
You guys literally call her the co redeemer, I’m sorry if I’m accurately depicting your beliefs.

>>520836387
>Bowing in prayer, not to her.
there is no difference. you bow before God and no one else.
if you bow to a statue you are an idolater.
>A symbol of prayer, not worship
pagans light candles and incense to their idol. you are no different no matter how much you argue.
>Prayer isn't worship.
prayer is worship and should only be dedicated to God. praying to anyone else robs God of his glory. you make someone else your God in that instance. God is your mediator, nobody else.
>Same spirit as asking your own mother or father or brother or friend to pray for you in this life.
these people are actually alive, you are praying to a dead saint. dead people cant pray for you.
>, they'd know that those in Heaven are not dead, they are more than alive. They'd know asking a Saint or Mary to pray for them is exactly like asking someone on Earth to pray for them.
so you just create your own pantheon of different gods to pray to than rather praying to God?
thats just paganism bro.

>>520832169
You pray to a rapist blue elephant, congrats

>>520836719
no, all protestants are going to hell. rejection of the church that Jesus Christ founded is a rejection of Jesus himself. Protestants dont even worship Jesus, they worship the god of self, which is why they church hop until they find a pastor who affirms their sin and agrees with their politics

>>520836423
>no biblical justification
We don’t talk that and a book isn’t my sovereign. Prot rhetoric is so retarded. You can see in sola scriptura the seeds of the American Constitution worship - the idea that a piece of paper can be sovereign. What an absolute brain worm that has infected your people for centuries

>>520836628
Catholics actually believe that she can intercede for them to Jesus Christ her Son to not go to the Son directly.
why not pray to Jesus directly? why is another person needed?

>>520836679
>I will start taking you Catholics seriously when you actually read the Bible. Until then how about you leave everything to the real Christians

No no, don't pull that cheap and lazy cop-out. How about (you) read the Bible?

>"Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you."

Duetoronomy 4:2, protestant. Remember, "sola scriptura". You admit the WORD is sacred, let no man add or subtract from it, lest he burn in Hell. Right?

Oh no protestants removed 6 ENTIRE BOOKS from the Bible?

No one should ever take a protestant seriously, especially when the protestant kneejerks and uses the Bible as a shield, despite removing six whole books from it.

>>520832132
Yep. The Protestant hatred of our Virgin Mother is very bizzare. Its probably a reason why Protestants hate their mothers.

>>520835368
It is and is part of an even older tradition tjay goes all the way back to a document supposedly written by hermes trismagistus about what happens after death.
Basically the "tolls" we have to pay are aspects of ourself that sit on top of our soul. We are just returning them after life. Or at least that's how the original document is.
Certain groups of Orthodox (and they're not all united) have differing opinions on them.
Personally I think the truth is more in line with the original document. You have to give up aspects of earthly self to return to heaven and if you love these parts more than God then you are tempted onto hell.

>>520836556
>I said it
It was green text though. This your first day here?

>>520836877
Yep. And they love to remove or add things to their translations all the time.

>>520836679
We're not the ones who cut books out of the Bible
(In all honesty, though, I'm just talking shit. I don't dislike Protties. You guys are okay)

>>520836679
There’s no point talking to Protestants

>>520836423
ok, we wrote the bible, why should we care about some 16th century heretics who misinterpret it?

>>520836856
>a book isn’t my sovereign
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life,[a] and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son[d] from the Father, full of grace and truth.
6 For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace.[e] 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God; God the only Son, who[f] is at the Father's side,[g] he has made him known.

if you dont make the Word your authority you have nothing and drift into mysteries and error.
congratulations.

>>520836861
>Catholics actually believe that she can intercede for them to Jesus Christ her Son to not go to the Son directly.

Yes we do. We also believe that (you) can intercede for us too. If I ask you to pray to Christ for me, and you do, then you have interceded.

>Why not pray to Jesus directly?
We do, we do both. We pray directly to God & Christ and we also make petitioning prayers to the saints and Mary, we also ask one another during mass to pray for each other. We fire on all cylinders and we pray, pray, pray.

Here's a question: Why go to protestant church? Why listen to your pastor/reverend/chaplain? Why bother being in a community with other Christians? Christ alone sufficed right? Why not just stick to that direct connection to Jesus and nothing else?

>>520836992
God did inspire the bible. the Word survived for thousands of years while every other teaching perished or was corrupted. yet somehow this book still has everything that is needed for knowing God.
really makes you think.

>>520836708
> Where in Christianity does it say to have a fog machine and go to church just to listen to some random faggot preach to you for an hour?
It’s wild how they use this argument for everything but then don’t apply it for themselves
>Where in the Bible does it say the pope gets a big hat hmmmmm?
Like, what? How do you even deal with this level of dishonesty

The Virgin Mary is our intercessor with God. Just like the mother can speak on behalf of a child, the Virgin intercedes for us. She is the eternal Mother of God and ourselves. She was born without sin.

>>520836959
>Complains about others in thread about Rome removing language added in the 15th century

>>520837003
>if you dont make the Word your authority you have nothing and drift into mysteries and error.
>congratulations.

And protestants undermined that authority.
Not once,
Not twice,
Not thrice,
Not four times,
Or five times,
SIX TIMES. You removed six books from the Bible you claim is authoritative. You don't get to lecture anyone about the Bible.

>>520837003
The word means logos. It doesn’t mean like word on a page. I’m actually laughing out loud at work right now.

>>520837059
>Why not just stick to that direct connection to Jesus and nothing else?
thats the entire point of Faith. you can have a direct relationship with God from your room you are in right now.
you dont need rituals or mass prayers like pagans.
I pray and wait for the answer which always comes in one form or the other.

>>520830899 (OP)
saar!! do not redeem!!! mary!!!

>>520836861
>why not pray to Jesus directly?
Matthew 22:32 - I am not the God of the dead but of the living
Hebrews 12:1 - Therefore, we are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses
James 5:16 - the prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective
Those in heaven are alive, are witnessing us and their prayers are stronger than ours. Ask yourself, pr*testant, why would you NOT want them to pray for you?
I mean i understand that protestantism is the religion of me, myself and I, but still, why not ask the righteous saints to echo your prayers?

>>520837200
>I’m actually laughing out loud at work right now.

Now imagine protestant Luther in his dumb hat shouting 'Go forth and SIN Boldly!" And try not to laugh

>>520830899 (OP)
Why did they make Mary and Baby Jesus indians?

>>520830899 (OP)
>look at this Jew worship bullshit
No, fuck off

>>520837258
>Those in heaven are alive
how can you be 100% sure?
we only have 100% assurance of one person that is in heaven with the Father, Jesus Christ.
the rest is open speculation. I wouldnt gamble with prayers but take the issue dead serious.

>>520837229
>me myself and I

>>520837422
Gospel according to ME.
I'm a strong independent protestant and I don't need no church father

>>520830899 (OP)
>co-redeemer

>>520837161
cool, why doesnt the catholic bible include the book of Enoch when it was clearly referenced by both Peter and James?

>>520837301
It’s legitimately terrifying how precarious civilization is

>>520837420
>the rest is open speculation.

What happened to reading your bible? Who is Enoch. Who is Elijah?

>>520836556
>The Catechism is available in basically every language you can imagine.
There's a lot more to Roman doctrine than that. And most of it is in Latin. I read Latin though it's not an issue.

>>520830899 (OP)
Also: reminder to contact your Congressman to kill HR4501. A monarch is not who needs a tax break

>>520837200
>mixing scripture with platonism
spotted the gnostic

>>520837161
protestards also added the flerfer map to KJV

>>520837420
>Mary, the Queen of heaven, isn't in heaven
protestants are a joke. you know your false prophet, martin luther, was a devout Marian, right? Anti-marianism isn't even a 16th century heresy, it's like a 20th century US boomer invented heresy

>>520837542
Lmao nah this is hilarious. Are you baiting? You did not just call the Logos a product of Gnosticism.

Trying to make sense of these radically different interpretations and the beefs they spawn is a good way to retard yourself.

>>520830899 (OP)
it's already too late. christianity will never recover.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MPHyR92MQic

>>520837301
In fairness translating logos to “word” in English is a retarded translation. Even the Latin verbum in the vulgate so far as I can tell doesn’t mean logos.

>>520837422
>>520837465
lol?
the entire point is to deny your own Will and accept the Will of God in your life.
do you know how many parts of the bible I dont like and yet have to accept them?
its not my authority, I have to yield to the authority of God. I am nothing but dust dependent on HIS mercy, not my own.

>>520837092
The first problem is that you can have the most inspired, thorough and truthful book in the world, but it will all be meaningless if you don't have what it takes to extract the intended meaning out of it. This is offered by the apostolic tradition, on which the Bible is based.

The second problem is that protestants and apostolics have different definitions for what grace, faith and salvation mean in practice. In fact, a protestant won't be able to tell you what exactly grace is, because it's not well defined in the Bible. Protestants are thus left with lackluster understanding of these terms. This is, for example, seen in how to a protestant salvation equals justification, whereas to apostolics justification is just the first step of the process of salvation, with subsequent steps being sanctification, glorification and the eventual theosis.

These differences are also a major reason these two groups usually end up talking past each other unable to understand what the other is saying.

>>520837258
>why not ask the righteous saints to echo your prayers?
God needs help with hearing prayers?

>>520837651
I wish you could understand it man. It's hilarious. If Christianity was a music genre, like Hip hop, Catholics are like Wu tang Clan. Orthodox are like Tribe called quest.

Then comes the protestant: Insane clown posse Juggalos.

You can't help but laugh every time they show up to discuss faith. It's like watching someone dress up as a clown and show up to an important meeting

>>520837590
>>Mary, the Queen of heaven
No where is this ever mentioned by Jesus

>>520837689
>do you know how many parts of the bible I dont like and yet have to accept them?
yet you don't go to confession like Jesus commanded. Funny. You don't partake in the Eucharist, like Jesus commanded. Funny.

Protestantism really is the religion of "which out of context verses affirm my pre existing beliefs?"

>>520837229
This is a view tainted by post-modern individualism, and historically it has never been seen before. Christianity has always been a communal thing, not a DIY garage project. I know, as an introvert it sucks, but it is what it is. Faith is not about our preferences, but what is the truth.

>>520837092
wow, i wonder what institution was in place that canonized and protected Scripture through the ages.

>>520830899 (OP)
>how to lose latin america in one movement

>>520837830
>yet you don't go to confession like Jesus commanded.
Jesus never commanded that you go into a box and confess to a priest

>>520837752
are you retarded?

>>520837150
That's totally un-Biblical and it's not even clear when this doctrine developed but none of the Early Church Fathers made any special veneration of Mary aside from saying she was blessed to carry the Son of God.

It appears to have developed in Rome itself as none of the other forms of primitive Christianity observe Marian worship like the Catholics do. Or was grafted-in from earlier Roman Pagan tradition. Most of you Catholics don't really know your Church was founded by Constantine and not by Peter, whose church was brutally suppressed.

When Romanization happened it was a top down affair, with Constantine himself leading the organization of the Roman Catholic Church. You see, he would know how to run the Church because he was also, at that same time, Pontiff Maximus of the Latin Cultus. He was the head of all official religion in Rome until his death and continued to perform the Roman Pagan rites, as require by his status as Emperor. He didn't even shut down Paganism.

Roman Church is basically a merging of the official Roman Pagan cultus led traditionally by the Emperor, and Christianity. Marian worship likely comes from Venus worship in this sense, which itself is a descendent of Isis worship.

>>520837955
Are you? Because thats what you're suggesting.

>>520837518
Elijah wrote a letter after he was taken in 2 Chronicles 21.
Enoch we simply know he was taken by God. we dont know where.
Jesus said that no one is in heaven beside the one that descended from it, he himself.

>>520837922
>how to lose latin america in one movement
Or how to humble them. Latin American Catholicism is off the hinges. They'll worship Santa Muerte (demonic mockery of Mary) and they'll venerate crap like "patron saint of drug dealers".

>>520837817
Revelation 12:1
To be fair, your false prophet, martin luther, tried to remove Revelation from the Bible, so i understand whatever vain attempt you will make to explain this verse away

>>520837590
>queen of heaven
nice ishtar worship bro
are you gonna bake cakes and worship her too? oh wait...

>>520838047
thats Israel, not mary.

>>520835839
Luther was right about everything thoughbeit.

>>520837590
Anti-Mary sentiment was introduced by kikes and their boomer golems
>>520837777
Holy blessed QUADS, the holy spirit has spoken!

>>520837936
Jesus didnt have a car

>>520838015
>We don't know where
Don't be a willful idiot. You know exactly where he was taken. Where does God reside? What would it mean if God takes someone? To a Walmart? A coffee shop?

>>520831792
>Mary is not co redeemer, she was a sinner
lol, no. free from blemish, immaculately conceived.

>>520838047
Again
No where did Jesus mention Mary as s queen of anything

>>520837936
So to whom do you confess your sins?

>>520837420
What? It doesn’t even sound like you’re a Protestant.

Women got a little taste of power in society and look what they're trying to do.

>>520837600
is Jesus the literal Word of God become flesh?

>>520838116
I live how you have no actual arguments.

>>520838121
Wait, MARY was also born of a virgin now? Anyway the last person before Jesus Christ to be sinless was Enoch, that's what the Bible says. It never says Mary didn't sin. And especially it doesn't say she herself was immaculately conceived.

Where do you even get this stuff?

>>520838161
>is Jesus the literal Word of God become flesh?

Yes.

>>520837982
thats crazy because coptics and orthodox venerate mary as well. Mary hatred is a protestant invention

>>520838126
Jesus lol. But I can also confess to my fellow Christian brothers and sisters

>>520838245
>But I can also confess to my fellow Christian brothers and sisters
But do you? It's what Jesus ordered.

>>520838208
Catholicism is the most dressed up and nice version of mystery babylon/goddess worship slop, that's where they get it.

>>520837542
What? The gospels were written in Greek and the word John used was Logos which is translated poorly into “word” in English. Also that’s Aristotle not Plato

>>520838121
No where in the bible does it say this either

>>520838243
>Mary hatred is a protestant invention

It really is. It's embarrassing that even Muslims show more respect to Mary than a protestant. In Islam, 'Maryam' is regarded as the greatest woman to have ever lived, and they refer to her as a perfect being.

Protestants are absolutely insane.

>>520838126
he doesnt, hes a protestant, he thinks he can sin as much as he wants and not confess them and Jesus will be cool with it. Hes going to hell.

>>520837720
>a protestant won't be able to tell you what exactly grace is
grace is being given something that you not deserve.
faith by grace, its nothing I ever worked for or asked for, yet God gave me grace to believe in him when I previously did not.
>, whereas to apostolics justification is just the first step of the process of salvation, with subsequent steps being sanctification, glorification and the eventual theosis.
I agree, but its not works or something you do that sanctifies you, it is the work of the Holy Spirit in you that sanctifies.
you cant come to God and say "look how good I did". its God working his glory out in you without your own input.

>>520836886
I don't hate my mother, but I also don't bow down and pray to statues of her while lighting candles, burning incense, etc. I'm sure that's exactly what Peter and Paul taught bro.

>>520838208
The immaculate conception is not "born of a virgin." It means Mary was redeemed from the stain of Original Sin at the moment of her conception by the Holy Spirit according to the Will of her Son, Jesus Christ.

>>520838279
>But do you?
I do.
>>520838279
>It's what Jesus ordered.
Nope. No, Jesus did not directly command people to confess to one another

>>520837982
The veneration of the Virgin Mary is apostolic tradition. Even as early as the 2nd century we have writings of St Justin Martyr it was stated as a matter of faith by that point. The problem with you Protestants is that by eschewing tradition you have lost the plot sort to speak. If you actually knew about our tradition and the history of the Church you would know this.

>>520837830
>you don't go to confession like Jesus commanded
I can confess to Jesus from where ever I want.
>You don't partake in the Eucharist
Jesus told us to remember him when we have communion.
not some ritual where something is transformed into his literal blood and flesh. thats some satanic shit.

Why are protestant-catholic debates so civilized compared to sunni-shia suicide-bombing summits

>>520838243
>>520838343
Why make up a lie. No one is hating on Mary.

>>520838354
>hes a protestant, he thinks he can sin as much as he wants and not confess them and Jesus will be cool with it. Hes going to hell.

Go forth and SIN BOLDLY - Luther.

All you need is to read Romans 10:9, once saved always saved. You can even commit adultery and kill children, just remember Romans 10:9 and you are good to go

>>520838196
Jesus didn’t use the computer

>>520830899 (OP)
>church says thing about the fairy tale.. continues to ignore several christian genocides

>>520838477
>No one is hating on Mary.
Indeed. But being stubborn to pay due respect to the mother of Christ is absurd.

Protestants will respect their own mothers, will respect other people's mothers, but for Christ's mother? Radio silence.

>>520838456
>Truly I tell you unless you eat the Flesh of the Son of Man and drink his Blood, you have no life in you.

>>520837752
Protestants often ask people to pray for them or a relative and other Protestants don’t tell them not to do that. So you don’t even believe in the argument you’re making right now. Typical

>>520838379
Jesus himself told St John "Here is your Mother" when referring to the Virgin Mary. Yes both St Peter and St Paul would have venerated the Virgin Mary. This wasn't a secret by any means and it was so well known by the Church of the time that it wasn't written. Remember not everything about the faith was written. Which is why we have the Holy Tradition of the Church.

>>520838354
>he doesnt
Bearing false witness is a sin
>>520838485
Why is lying so easy for yous?

>>520838497
Thanks again for the non-sequitor

>>520838557
>But being stubborn to pay due respect to the mother of Christ is absurd.
Jesus called her woman
.

>>520838592
>Protestants often ask people to pray for them or a relative and other Protestants
That's called fellowship my friend. Big difference

>>520838357
>grace is being given something that you not deserve.
Grace IS what you're being given. The question is: what is grace? The Orthodox and the Catholic have a well defined answer to this. A sola scripturist cannot easily produce one.

>I agree, but its not works or something you do that sanctifies you, it is the work of the Holy Spirit in you that sanctifies.
Well yes and no. Sanctification is a collaborative effort between you and God. Your work is to remain open to the grace God is offering you so that it will be free to continue your sanctification within you. In practice, this means avoiding sinful living and engaging in Godly pursuits, such as almsgiving, prayer, fasting and the sacraments. Yet even then, grace remains a gift. But just as receiving a gift requires one to extend their hands in order to receive it, so does receiving grace require us the effort of keeping ourselves receptive to it. And this truly is hard work at times.

>>520834421
>I've went my whole life and never once heard anyone refer to Mary as a "Co-Redeemer".
It's in Litany to Mary, Litanys are supposed to be exalted anyway, but outside of that I've never seen that term in use either. No Catholic would say that St. Mary redeemed humans. It's a made up controversy.
>>520836886
yes, it's puzzling
assuming it's protestants doing it
cause I have a feeling this is just astroturfed

>>520837200
the greek word used is logos, but john's tapping into the aramaic jewish "memra" instead of the greek concept
>logos: (reason, order)
>memra: (dynamic relational expression of God)

TRVTHNUKE
Everyone's salvation in Britain was on shaky grounds for 1000 years until this man showed up

>>520838383
Good for you anon, you are consistent.

>>520838243
>thats crazy because coptics and orthodox venerate mary as well
They absolutely do not venerate her in any manner approaching the Catholics.

>is a protestant invention
You Catholics are weird because you assume you're the only actual Church, when in fact there are seven mother Churches and countless others founded from them.

Were the Irish Christians 'protestant' because they weren't Roman Catholic at one point? Heck St. Patrick came and converted a largely already Christian population to the Romish persuasion and as the story has it, his Church he built kept falling over until he performed a HUMAN FOUNDATIONAL SACRIFICE and then they stood.

What Christian tradition is that? This is what the trad-Catholic gleefully yearns for, evidently, today.

>>520838281
Yep, by the by it ended up enduring. Amazing.

>>520838381
>It means Mary was redeemed from the stain of Original Sin at the moment of her conception by the Holy Spirit according to the Will of her Son, Jesus Christ.
Literally just fanfiction though. Jesus Christ's divine nature as Redeemer and Son of God, the Living God, is what makes him sinless. He didn't inherit this special power from his mom at the instant of birth. That's not Biblical and it doesn't even follow logically.

>>520838443
>The veneration of the Virgin Mary is apostolic tradition.
It is recorded by them.

>Even as early as the 2nd century we have writings of St Justin Martyr it was stated as a matter of faith by that point.
That's not what he says about it, however. I've read Justin. He is a primitive Christian and he actually denounced many of the practices creeping into the Church.
>by eschewing tradition you have lost the plot sort to speak
Tradition is fine, but there's a lot of sheer made up BS and garbage in the tradition, which is why we don't make it a point of faith, only the Scripture. We are in fact warned in the Scriptures against innovations, another name for tradition.

>>520830899 (OP)
NOOOOO MARRRY DOOOO NOOTT REDEEEM BLAADY

- t. vatican church, probably

mfw westerners have finally learned the hidden, mystical powers of not redeeming.

>>520836954
I find it very difficult to believe that someone catechized has never heard of the various Marian dogmas.

>>520838343
>It's embarrassing that even Muslims show more respect to Mary than a protestant.
What's actually embarrassing is that Catholics show more respect to Allah than Jesus Christ.
>CCC 841, quoting the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Lumen Gentium 16, from Vatican II, declared:
>The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.

>>520838383
>Nope. No, Jesus did not directly command people to confess to one another
James 5:16
Do protestards even read their Bibles?

>>520831928
You’re missing another option, that souls can be cultivated and come into being inside the machine - much like how the Japanese believe objects of sufficient age and importance develop souls.

>>520838357
Anyway gotta go I'll read your reply later. God bless.

>>520838456
nice personal interpretation, bro. enjoy burning

>>520838906
This idiot. Again
>>520838906
>Jesus did not directly command people to confess to one another
Lol learn to read bro

>>520838796
'ate me wives
'ate fackin' papists
'luv me hamhocks
Simple as.

The people here who do not believe let me tell you a story. When I was in my lowest point. The Virgin Mary came to me and ask what was wrong and I said about everything that happened to me and how God has abandoned me. She told me to pray for him and together we started praying. Then Jesus showed up and I asked him why Lord why have you forsaken me. Why have you left me on my own. Only for Christ to say that he was always beside me all this time. It was me who by living a sinful life that closed my eyes and ears to him. But the Virgin Mary in the role of intercessor went ahead of God's plan and help me open my eyes to God. I can tell you that as someone who has actually spoken to her and her Son that even right now I have tears of joy over that experience. I was a reddit atheist, living a life of sin but that day I came back to the Church. Christ is King and the Virgin Mary is real.

Why do fucking protestants have so much to say about real christainity?

Satan was a protestant too, he too prostested against god

>>520838828
>He didn't inherit this special power from his mom at the instant of birth.
Which is why Catholics don't say that Jesus was Immaculately concieved. That is a process that occurred with Mary but was entirely unnecessary for Jesus, of course. Jesus was free of Sin because He is Divine. Mary was free of Sin because her Son was Divine.

>>520838568
>nah bro, like, jesus was just, like, being symbolic here, bro
>source? my own, like, personal interpretation, bro

>>520838687
Unrelated to your initial argument. You said God doesn’t need help hearing prayers. Every conversation with a Protestant is like a Jewish struggle session

>>520839061
>Immaculately concieved. That is a process that occurred with Mary
Where in the bible does it say this?

>>520839110
>Unrelated to your initial argument.
Thanks for letting me know I can disregard this reply

>>520830899 (OP)
Based
Fuck the cult of Modonna and those who think saints are mediators

>>520839061
It's just made up fan fiction which has no impact on the message of Jesus Christ or his status as the Living God. It sounds plausible... if we're just going to sit around making stuff up about the Bible. But is it good to make our musings articles of faith? How far can we take this crazy stuff?

>>520837982
> Early Church Fathers made any special veneration of Mary aside from saying she was blessed to carry the Son of God.
Pretty sure most Protestants take issue with this title, so…

>>520839069
>truly truly I am the door
heh, He's obviously not made out of wood and has hinges, that's silly
>truly truly i am the vine
heh, He's obviously not saying He's a plant, c'mon
>truly truly this is my blood
whooaaaa i'm a sacerdotalist who holds to aristotelian categories of substances and accidents now!

>>520839186
These people are more concerned with gate keeping and blocking the way to Christ as much as possible

>>520837982
> Most of you Catholics don't really know your Church was founded by Constantine and not by Peter, whose church was brutally suppressed.
Without a doubt the most pernicious and evil lie I have ever seen in my life

>>520830899 (OP)

For me? Its the donkey that was in the stable

>>520839299
Here's the real kicker. The church is built on the foundation of the Son of Man, not a man named Simon Peter

>>520838772
>cause I have a feeling this is just astroturfed
you are probably right on this.

>>520835774
Its chad european tradition. Even latinos love it. It proves divine connection. Just as fancy catedrals.
Protestants on other hand try to larp as semites and thus they are boring, materialistic and hate beauty and fun.

Bring some ugu bugu tribe to catolic church or to protestant church. See which one he likes.

>>520839130
We're not followers of Sola Scriptura
>>520839186
It's just an ancient Tradition, which is very important to the Faith

>>520831792
>>520831160
What do protestants believe "grace" means, exactly? Can a single protestant answer this very straightforward question? In my experience they will always evade answering this at all costs.

>>520839051
theyre insecure about their faith because their entire religion is based on their own biased personal interpretation of a book that has been translated 4 times from the original sources.
Theyve never once heard the words "your sins are forgiven" so deep down they don't really know.
They claim "sola fida" but add 700 qualifiers to it, making it a pointless distinction only to cause more uncertainity.
They have to choose between 140,000 protestant denominations, never really sure if this one is the "right one" or if Pastor Bob's Mountain Church down the street actually has it right.
They claim a "personal relationship" with Jesus yet deny the 7 sacraments that allow us to physically interact with Jesus in this life.
Not to mention, half of them arent even baptized because "it was just symbolic bro"

>>520839508
>We're not followers of Sola Scriptura
A meaningless term which again fits into
>>520839294
>These people are more concerned with gate keeping and blocking the way to Christ as much as possible

>tic
https://www.youtube.com/live/ZjmGydpfPOw
>toc
and strike andrew windsor from the first list

>>520830899 (OP)
I'm quite sick and tired of Roman Catholics and their nonsense, none of that has anything to do with Christ. Quite fucking annoying to have these Roman pagans going around bastardizing the Gospel of Christ like the pharisees did. They are NOT Christian, the sooner you realize this, the better. They are in the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth, and they worship the son of perdition (the pope) "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." (2Thesallonians 2:4), they call this Roman man their "holy father", a term that Jesus only used for God. The seat of pagan Rome (the dragon) is now the seat of papal Rome (Revelation 13:2). To have that Roman man as your "holy father" is having the MARK OF THE BEAST in your forehead (your mind), and acting upon that with your right hand - Vicarivs Filii Dei - V+I+C+I+V+I+L+I+I+D+I = 666

I repeat: Roman Catholicism is the MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH, and if you worship that institution and follow their heathen doctrines, YOU HAVE THE MARK OF THE BEAST IN YOUR FOREHEAD.

Revelation 17 Part 1: The Woman Rides the Beast
https://youtu.be/301uqf-rjcY

>Cult of Madonna
based.

>>520839510
means receiving God’s unmerited favor and forgiveness for sins, not as a reward for good deeds, but as a free gift through faith in Jesus Christ

>>520838090
Luther just wrote what was wrong with the church at the time. His other opinions are his. For example jews should be forced to do manual labor to become normal poeple.
Though true is not part of theology.
Somehow some autistic strain of northern europe injected in protestantism to hate fun beauty and worship money and work. It could also be the elites.

>>520839547
>Theyve never once heard the words "your sins are forgiven"
Again, why is lying so easy for you?

We can obviously see that this tendency for priests and monks to just sit around making stuff up, or even blamelessly recording traditions they run across in earnest (impossible to say at this point as physical evidence for things is thin on the ground unless you count a hair or a tooth or a splinter of wood as good enough proof of the tradition) and collecting idols- I mean relics to worshi- venerate, how it can lead through the confused mists of history, to a telephone game, and pretty soon you have entire libraries of stuff that either happened, or was made up to reinforce faith, after the fact.

This mass of tradition, with the oldest and most important manuscripts which the faithful isn't even allowed to access and study, but instead is kept locked away under the Vatican? Who's to say WHAT is in there. Certainly it is beyond the ability of any mortal to even read all the tradition of the Church.

>It's just an ancient Tradition
It's not even relevant to the salvation of your soul, and it's not in the Bible. It's an interesting story maybe but the sin the Catholics perpetuate is placing this up on the status of the Gospel by establishing their actual doctrines on this tradition instead of the Bible alone.

Peter's church was driven underground and suppressed and he was killed, they survived more or less in secret for hundreds of years in Rome before Constantine established his Church. He was also the head of Roman Paganism until his death and performed those rites as well. Romish Papism was always a synthesis of the two systems and disagrees in many important points with primitive Christianity and other Churches practices.

>>520839285
>53 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
>54 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you.
>55 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.
>56 For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed.
>57 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him.
>58 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me.
>59 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead. He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever.
>60 These things he said, teaching in the synagogue, in Capharnaum.
>61 Many therefore of his disciples, hearing it, said: This saying is hard, and who can hear it?
>62 But Jesus, knowing in himself, that his disciples murmured at this, said to them: Doth this scandalize you?
>63 If then you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
>64 It is the spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing. The words that I have spoken to you, are spirit and life.
>65 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning, who they were that did not believe, and who he was, that would betray him.
>66 And he said: Therefore did I say to you, that no man can come to me, unless it be given him by my Father.
>67 After this many of his disciples went back; and walked no more with him.
Kind of seems weird that He didn't correct the Jews and the disciples when they understood him to be saying that he would literally give them his flesh to eat, and it caused many of them to walk away from him. But I guess Jesus just didn't know that he was saying something totally Satanic. Too bad the Son of God didn't have you around to set him right.

>>520830899 (OP)
>amid spread
This makes it sound like its some issue that started last year. This whole issue has been a thing for literally more than 1000 years, its like a major part of the whole protestant/catholic denomination split.

>>520838828
>by the by it ended up enduring
But of course, the mother of abominations will endure until it absorbs all of it's daughters that broke off, and then the real "fun" begins.

>>520839547
>its this was or the highway
The pharisee's thought the same thing. They thought that they knew better than everyone else.
That if you didn't follow their traditions you where going to hell.
But Jesus put them in their place.

>>520839763
how is that lying? youve never been to confession. So youve never heard your sins being forgiven. Jesus gave his apostles the authority to forgive sins, so why wouldnt you want to utilize this amazing gift he left behind? is it because Protestants hate Jesus?

>>520839612
Schizo post

>>520839547
>They claim "sola fida" but add 700 qualifiers to it, making it a pointless distinction only to cause more uncertainity.
Sounds like Catholicism.

>>520839612
>protestard frothing at the mouth
cope harder

>>520839547
kek typical papist drivel. Just turn your brain off and spout lies, then call everything you don't like "Protestantism" as if that's a real argument.

>>520839564
In what way does this block the path to Christ?
Jesus didn't hide the truth for fear of causing scandal. His Church shouldn't either.

>>520839648
In other words, unearned favor.

So if an angel were to greet someone with the honorific title "one who is full of unearned favor," what exactly do you think that means? What does "favor" mean in the sense of grace, and what does being "full" of that "favor" imply?

Also Constantine's mom was a convert to Christianity, perhaps keeping the old faith side by side as her son did. From this you might see the genesis of Roman Marian worship, as the empress dowager herself she would have been as divine as her son, the Emperor.

>>520839856
I've noticed that Catholics and Trad Ortho-bros alike both seem to hate the study of the Apocalypse and especially the idea that it could happen soon, at any point. I think they love their Churches a bit more than they love Christ.

>>520839911
no, we dont claim sola fida. we dont even claim that we are saved, because it requires immense levels of pride and arrogance to declare oneself saved before he is judged by Christ

>>520839874
>how is that lying?
Because in you're seeth you generalize like a liar. I've heard those words many times and then felt it as I grew in Christ >>520839874
>youve never been to confession
You mean your version of it? Correct, because it's not needed

>>520840028
>its not needed
Source? Where does Jesus say to not confess your sins anymore? Where does he revoke his apostle's authority to forgive sins? Was is the Jesus that protestants created in their head that told you this?

>>520839932
>In what way does this block the path to Christ?
See
>>520839874
>youve never been to confession
>>520839966
>In other words, unearned favor
Incorrect. That's what faith in Christ is my friend. The thief on the cross was given the same grace. Same as the Canaanite woman.

C'mon bro..stop gatekeeping

>>520840017
>no, we dont claim sola fida.
Yet you lot do the most gatekeeping

>>520840166
>>its not needed
>Source?
Jesus. Jesus is the sole mediator between God and people, and therefore, direct confession to God is sufficient for forgiveness. However, confession to another person can be beneficial for healing and growth.

>>520840166
>Where does Jesus say to not confess your sins anymore?
I never said this either. Try less stranexf reply

>>520840286
>stranexf
Strawman*

>>520840017
Yes we're aware that romanists claim John 3:16 is a lie by adding all sorts of qualifiers to earn salvation.

>>520840167
The thief received grace, do you think Catholics dispute this?

Why do you evade answering my very simply-constructed question? What does "full of grace" actually mean? Can you tell us, or will you continue to evade?

>>520840367
>The thief received grace
Done and done. All that was required was earnest repentance and acceptance..

Listen Catholics need to bow down to their Pope and 4chan on this one. You've been worshiping Mary a bit TOO hard, it's gone beyond veneration to such a degree that the Pope, a guy who kisses as many Mary statues and Saint's statues as he kisses Jesus Christ statues, has even come out and said it needs to be toned down a hair.

The Pope finally came around to what people have been saying for hundreds of years. He served missions in Latin America when he was younger, and probably ran across whole regions where they never even heard of Jesus Christ except maybe twice a year on Christmas and Easter.

The Pope, of all people, finally came around.

>>520840367
>What does "full of grace" actually mean? Can you tell us, or will you continue to evade?
I did tell you..not my fault you don't like the answer

>>520830899 (OP)
Did someone say "redeem"?

>>520830899 (OP)
Catholics love to put all these obstacles in between you and Jesus. Their whole model is based on this hierarchy of men in robes and approximately 11,000 saints. This is all a distraction to make you less Christ-centered, imho.

>>520840556
Exactly this

>>520837590
Im starting a new religion. We worship only Marry. Jesus is mentioned as one of Marrys miracles nothing else. Also Marry was Celtic (good pick since almost all europeans have some celtic ansestry) not jewish.
Marry celebrated all indoeuropean holidays loved beauty and art. One of her miracles is kicking semites out of Europe.
Why was celtic culture whiped out? Because druids didnt want to listen. And romans accepted her teachings.

>>520840017
I don't know a single Christian who claims they are going to heaven, only that Jesus is our savoir.
But I'm pretty sure that's what Catholicism does thou when its canonizes someone. They claim that person is likely in heaven, saved.

>>520840167
Yes, the road to salvation does require more than just crying out "Lord, Lord." That isn't gatekeeping, that is just common sense.

>>520837883
tbf, I really wish I had a community, but the Churches descended so deep in teach and doctrine I dont have any choice by doing it with God alone.

>>520840666
>Yes, the road to salvation does require more than just crying out "Lord, Lord."
See
>>520840440
>All that was required was earnest repentance and acceptance

>>520837885
and kept it from the masses to their own.

>>520838119
Philip was taken by the Holy Spirit too. he didnt leave earth tho.

>>520839969
Shizo post

>>520840638
There are tons of Protestant sects that “I’m saved” and subscribe to once saved always saved. I’m 100% sure you are aware of this. Why are you lying?

>>520840638
lol, evangelicals and baptists all claim theyre "saved" and "going to heaven" and "Charlie Kirk is watching over us", funnily enough out of all Christians, theyre the ones most likely to end up in hell

>>520840556
It's interesting to read about the early Churches, and their histories. But the issues arise when they erect points of faith which are on the level of the Gospels and then make their doctrines upon these sand castles of what could be truth, mistakes, interpratio romae, moral lessons, etc.

Orthodox Church does this too, being in congregation with the Romish type until their schism. Indeed, Constantinople was Rome. It seems more resistant to change after the schism, they keep a more primitive dress and form, the sexes are separated as in early Churches, etc.

Both have huge amounts of Saints, special traditions, all the national Churches have big rivalries with each other and with Rome, the whole thing just seems like it has devolved into more of a sports team mentality than the idea that everybody in the world who agrees with the Apostles Creed is in fact equally Christian, which is the truth of the religion.

>>520840887
How is it schizo? Marian worship had to have been grafted in from somewhere. It certainly isn't a feature of the original Churches. It hits the scene hard in the Medieval times, not before.

>>520840726
Catholics don't disagree. If a man truly repents of his sins and makes a firm resolution to sin no more, then he will be forgiven.

>>520839826
>Kind of seems weird that He didn't correct the Jews and the disciples when they understood him
Jesus not correcting people's misunderstandings is extremely common in scripture though.
>"bring some swords, sell your cloaks if you have to"
>"why do you call Me good? only God is good." "uh whatever, anyway i've kept all the commandments of God, what else do i need to do to be saved?" "(commandment, from God) go sell all your stuff and follow me" "uhhh no way, see ya"
>"are you claiming to be king of the jews?" "you say so"
>"i'll destroy the temple and rebuild it in 3 days"

>>520838760
yes, the grace to believe which results in faith.
>this means avoiding sinful living and engaging in Godly pursuits
yes but that new nature is given to, its not something you have to keep in mind all the time.
you simply have no desire to sin anymore.
>almsgiving, prayer, fasting and the sacraments
as long as it doesnt end up in religious ritualism we can agree.
>And this truly is hard work at times.
no not really. Jesus told us his yoke is light. keeping the commandments should result in joy and not work.
if you work hard then something is wrong and you should examine your faith.

According to catholics and protestants, despite God himself saying that thou shall have no graven images before me, I'm going to hell forever unless I buy 500 rosaries and statues of the virgin mary, and pray to them on the regular.

It must suck to be poor and be unable to afford these statues and idols, because God apparently just condemns them to hell for not having the right prayer equipment.

>>520840960
>once saved always saved.
This is literally what the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church claims Romans 11 means for Jews.

>>520840960
I have never heard of them.
Only Catholicism claims that someone is likely in heaven, through their saint program.

>>520838568
read the entire chapter. Jesus explains it to his disciples when the others had left.
>It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

>>520840983
Unironically I think certain protestant sects that shun saints and such end up filling the psychological void with essentially veneration of political figures

>>520841171
>According to catholics and protestants
Protestants are now the same as Catholics? Are you a jeet or a jew?

>>520841084
>If a man truly repents of his sins and makes a firm resolution to sin no more, then he will be forgiven.
Sucks for Catholics then, they sin so much that it's ordered they confess lol

And a lot if Catholics live to take advantage of that. Party and be a degenerate Saturday night and in the confessional on Sunday. Rinse and repeat

>>520841171
you are on drugs

>>520838959
catholics always so keen to see people burning. take heed you dont end up there yourself.

>>520830899 (OP)
Very very nice.
Let’s see his opinion on illegal immigration

>>520830899 (OP)
Mary did not redeem?

>>520840486
No you did not. I'm asking you what "full of grace" means and everyone can see that you are evading, refusing to answer one of the simplest questions I could possibly construct. You also apparently thought that Catholics deny the reception of grace by the thief on the cross. Which is just totally bizarre, but let's set that aside for a moment and ask again if you can just answer the question. What does "full" mean with respect to grace?

>>520841332
You're both false religions, right down there with islam and judaism.

Doesn't matter if that was a jeet or a jew, jeets and jews buy things from their priesthoods as much as catholics and orthodox and buddhists and etc.

The craft of the priest is to bilk people out of money. Heck there's an entire chapter on how to get widows to donate to the Church in the Jesuit Manual.

>>520841382
>No you did not
Yes I did.

>>520841382
>You also apparently thought that Catholics deny the reception of grace by the thief on the cross
No where did I say this.

Please stop lying or this is the last you

>>520840983
they believe they are saved through Jesus Christ
not that they are going to heaven.
just that Jesus Christ is their savoir.
Catholics on the other hand think that some people are in heaven becuase of their saint program.
And that they can choose who is likely in heaven.

>>520839476
yeah, nice idolatry tradition.
>ugu bugu tribe to catolic church or to protestant church. See which one he likes.
most likely the one that fits closest to his pagan traditions with some gold and pagan rituals sprinkled in.

>>520830899 (OP)
No Mary, no Jesus. She brought him into the world.

>>520841108
he started speaking in parables when he was rejected by his own.
all he says makes sense if you have the Spirit of Truth in you.

>>520831465
This is retarded nonsense. Just code it guardrails to be Christian.

>>520841547
Jesus was prophesied. Not Mary

>>520841547
if you hold to this logic consistently you will become the jew worshipper that /pol/ gaytheists and pagans pretend we are

>>520840638
you know you are saved once youre in the kingdom of God while alive on earth.

>>520841477
Quote your answer then. What is "full" with respect to grace? What meaning does this have? Mary also wondered about this btw, you do know that right. Isn't being well versed supposed to be your strong suit?

>>520841184
You’re lying. It’s simply impossible that you’ve never heard of this.

>>520841347
That doesn't happen. People who sin all the time are not concerned with confessing.

>>520836526
Dulia: honor paid to saints
Hyperdulia: highest honor paid exclusively to Mary
Latria: worship given to God alone
The difference is one of kind, not just of degree; as far apart as the Creator and the Creature.

>>520841778
>Quote your answer then.
Sure
>>520839648
>means receiving God’s unmerited favor and forgiveness for sins, not as a reward for good deeds, but as a free gift through faith in Jesus Christ
>>520839510
>What do protestants believe "grace" means, exactly?
And that's the question that was posed

The amount of mental gymnastics Catholics have to do to justify their garbage practices is insane. You guys are almost as bad as Mormons.

>>520841347
Demonic liar

>>520831160
This. Prots need to sit down and stfu or just convert already

>>520841864
>That doesn't happen
It does. I've seen and experienced it fordt hand. Notice I'm not generalizing all Catholics but to act like this doesn't happen is a lie

>>520841913
What's the lie exactly?

>>520832137
>W is the 23 letter in the alphabet
>23 is what you get when you multiply 6 with 3 and then add another 5
>Five is what you get when you take 6 and remove a 1 but 3 is what you get when you divide 6 by 2
I see it clearly now

>>520841382
>I'm asking you what "full of grace" means
It is a single use term in the new testament. And therefore should NOT be used to build entire belief structures upon.
>What does "full" mean with respect to grace?
You are trying to translate a language through another language and from a different time. Do you not see that?

>>520839547
Based answer brother. Mystery meat on the meltdown:

>>520839763
>>520839868
>>520839911
>>520839931
>>520841778

>>520832339
Blessings to you and your family Anon
>>520831792
What sin did she commit?
>>520832169
>Israeli flag
If that were the case you would love him
>>520830899 (OP)
God is perfect. Mary was the perfect human being which is why God chose her to be the vessel of the Christ. But salvation only comes through the Jesus, not Mary. She is simply held in the highest reverence that one could give to a human being.
https://files.catbox.moe/tmc5b5.mp4
Mary will bring you to Him. For this woman, Mary was what brought her to God, but through Jesus. She explains it more so here but does it very well.
https://youtu.be/eiRZhQ-n3FY?si=4atoZeg-_Gj5mU3L

>>520838381
If God can just make anyone born sinless in this fallen world, why stop with Mary?
Indeed, why would He not have simply made Seth, Cain, and Abel sinless?
No, that's not how this works.

>>520841880
Right, the question of the meaning of "grace" leads to the question of what being "full" of said grace actually means. That is the follow up question. You understand what a follow up is, right? Do you know how ridiculous it looks when you evade simple questions like this? This "fullness" of grace is explicitly stated with respect to Mary, and she herself wondered at its meaning. I'm now positing that very same biblical (your strong suit right?) question to you. I'm inviting you to answer it and be a witness to your faith. And you're refusing to do so, instead prevaricating. Everyone can sees that btw.

>>520842241
>Mary will bring you to Him
Jesus says the exact opposite

>>520842423
My answer doesn't change. Simple as

fuck this piece of shit seriously this is a hatecrime on polish

i'm baptist, but would like to state and emphasize my love for my cathodox brothers and sisters and hope we turn our ire toward the heathen instead of eachother.

>>520841899
Catholics don't even know anything about their OWN religion. Gregorian reforms? Shit that never happened. Catholics will claim they used the Vulgate when that's just bogus, they had a huge bunch of hand copied manuscripts of the Vetus Latina, the Old Latin Bible(s?) and there were significant differences in all the manuscripts right up until Pope Gregory said "fuck it" and started using the Vulgate and then he took out a shit load of old practices. He changed the musical scales and all the hymns to fit the new scale. He forbade monks and nuns cohabitating (!) for obvious reasons. Churches were stripped of their vast pagan iconographies. Frescoes were removed and remodeled. Many churches essentially demolished and made anew. We can see in France, though, in the hinterlands, and Spain, and Ireland, what they were suppressing. Sheela-na-gig. Churches had ceremonies which evoke Bacchus, not Jesus Christ. Basically Luther called his bluff and the Pope had to gut a lot of pagan stuff out of the various Churches. They literally had an internal Inquisition.

Ask a Catholic about any of this and they will likely become completely enraged.

>>520841069
protestants deny the apostles creed, and therefore arent Christian

>>520842498
Better yet, just post this simple verse and watch them completely ignore it, because it scares them beyond belief.

I just pray to and worship our father God in heaven and give thanks everyday to him for creating this paradise.

>>520842563
>protestants deny the apostles creed
Which "protestants?" I was raised Lutheran and it is an article of our faith. We are the original Protestants.

You seem confused.

>>520842621
Yep that's a big one. Maybe this Pope actually read it and got a thinking.

>>520842563
>apostles creed
Where did Jesus say this was a requirement for salvation?

>>520842563
>I believe in God,
>the Father almighty,
>Creator of heaven and earth,
>and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
>who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
>born of the Virgin Mary,
>suffered under Pontius Pilate,
>was crucified, died and was buried;
>he descended into hell;
>on the third day he rose again from the dead;
>he ascended into heaven,
>and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty;
>from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
>I believe in the Holy Spirit,
>the holy catholic Church,
>the communion of saints,
>the forgiveness of sins,
>the resurrection of the body,
>and life everlasting.
>Amen.
nah i affirm all of this

>>520841899
What about the mental gymnastic protestards do to justify removing books from the Bible or disobeying Jesus' commandments?

>>520842563
>the apostles creed
not scripture. Saved by race through faith alone. Deal with it homo

Daily reminder that JC snubbed his mom and said that whoever did the will of God was his real mom.
>Then his mother and his brothers came, and standing outside they sent to him and called him. A crowd was sitting around him, and they said to him, “Your mother and your brothers are outside asking for you.” And he replied, “Who are my mother and my brothers?” And looking at those who sat around him, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does the will of God is my brother and sister and mother.” (Mark 3)

>>520842710
Here we go, the Protestant witch hunt commences once again. It's all so tiresome.

>>520842463
Your answer >>520841880 addresses the meaning of "grace" but ignorea the follow up question of "what does fullness mean with respect to grace?"

The reason most prots refuse to answer the question about grace is because they understand that they can't answer this follow up, btw.

>>520836812
Jesus didn't found any church. Catholicism is sauls brand of Christianity. The eastern Roman empire formed the orthodox church and western the catholic. The Roman catholics have like 2000 years worth of insane bullshittery that isn't the word or doctrine of God but the dogma of a little man wearing a funny hat.

>>520842563
>>520842705
these are the absolute basics every christian should believe in. protestants included.

>>520842759
>Protestant witch hunt
you mean like when the prots burned actual women thinking they were witches?

>>520842862
>implying they weren't

>>520842783
Gnosticism is papa Paul's (real name Simon, not Saul) brand of Christianity.

>>520842772
>but ignorea the follow up question of "what does fullness mean with respect to grace?"
No, I don't think it does. I believe Mary received the same grace to birth Jesus as I do to be reborn in Jesus.

Hope that helps my friend.

Both trad-caths and ortho-bros seem to share a rhetoric. It's weird, but it makes sense. Both seem to think that they have the only legitimate Christian churches going, and that everybody else is a "prottie" of some kind or another. But they don't even read their Bibles, there are seven mother Churches. There is not mother of mothers, and the Orthodox faith as it matured in Constantinople, was itself Romish in genesis because who built the city there? And the Church? Who indeed.

Ortho-bros have taken it on the chin, their mother Church is now a mosque museum thing. Catholics seem, on the outside, to have done better but their mother Church is just a Roman palace stuffed with Pagan iconography. It's tough to actually say who took it on the chin harder when you really think about it.

>>520842681
>>520842705
no you dont, you deny the communion of saints and life everlasting. you think Jesus is the God of the dead.
>>520842690
>all that matters is my transactional relationship that gets me to heaven

>be literally only person to not die
>h-hey don't give her too much credence, guys
Shut up

But in fairness this is mostly a Mexican thing

>>520842930
So just to be clear, you believe that you are equally entitled to the honorific "full of grace" as Mary? Am I getting that right?

SIGNOR DONTA REDEEM
BASTARDO CAZZO

>>520836771
Rev 6, 10. The martyred saints petition God to take action on Earth.

>>520842690
I think you’re an actual demon. I’ve heard that they are often able to use electronic devices

>>520843038
yes. And the bible fully supports this. Now go seethe in your priests cuck box while you worship idols faggot

>>520843019
>no you dont,
i do though.
>you deny the communion of saints
i just take "saints" to mean "believers" rather than people who've been canonized by the roman catholic church, like paul does in the epistles (Romans 1:7, Ephesians 1:1)
communion of saints = fellowship of believers united in Christ across space and time.

>>520843081
dont leave out 11
11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers[c] should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

>rest a little longer
they are asleep, waiting to be resurrected.

>>520843030
>>be literally only person to not die
Enoch? He was the only person assumed into Heaven other than of course Jesus Christ after his Resurrection.

Mary's assumption is not in the Bible, it's a story that didn't seem to really get going until Romish Papism developed in the 400's AD.

>>520830899 (OP)
Catholicism is cringe and the sooner it dies like Protestantism the better.

>>520843030
>be literally only person to not die
read your bible

>>520839174
I used to assume Catholics would worship Saints and Mary as idols. Untrue. When praying to God, THROUGH them, it lends an extra voice to your prayer. That's all. Lead it to prots and kikes to twist it into something that it's not.
>>520838343
This.
>>520838477
The protestants spend to much energy knocking down her importance in one hand as they accuse Catholics of holding her in too HIGH of regard in the other.
See this vid.
>>520842241
Using Mary or any Saint's name in prayer is simply adding a microphone to your voice to God. It's not complicated.

>>520843019
>>all that matters is my transactional relationship that gets me to heaven
See
>>520839648
>receiving God’s unmerited favor and forgiveness for sins, not as a reward for good deeds, but as a free gift through faith in Jesus Christ
It's odd you don't have any scripture to back up your unnecessary works

>>520843038
>you believe that you are equally entitled to the honorific "full of grace"
See above bro.

Better yet..let's ask Jesus

25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

26Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

27Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”

28Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife e or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first

>>520843146
>I think you’re an actual demon
It matter not to me. I hope you pray on your anger and pride my friend.

>>520843240
>i personally believe
protestant creed

>>520843338
>When praying to God, THROUGH them, it lends an extra voice to your prayer.
we're told to "boldly approach the throne of grace"
the notion of extra voices undermines the sufficiency of Christ's mediation.

Catholics literally don't know Enoch was assumed into heaven, even though that's right in the Bible. But OTOH, they seem to believe as an article of faith that Mary was assumed into heaven. Now, I'm not saying it couldn't have happened. But it's not in the Bible and there's nothing about this anecdote or tale, which in any way is useful for the salvation of your soul. YET - and this is crazy - the Catholics now say it is. If you don't believe Mary was assumed into Heaven, that's against Catholic doctrine and the faith.

Where do they get this stuff? Like when did they start importing all these side stories and saying "oh BTW, this new thing we have? Yeah you have to believe in this TOO as WELL as Jesus Christ!

>>520843338
>The protestants spend to much energy knocking down her importance in
Again the words of Jesus
>Jesus said unto him, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.
Simple as

>>520843384
>It's odd you don't have any scripture to back up your unnecessary works
Ephesians 2
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

>>520843477
as opposed to what?
are you programmed to believe stuff?
NPC : non-protestant catholic

>>520842288
>If God can just make anyone born sinless
He can. Do you think He can't?

>>520843609
>Ephesians 2
>8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God
Done and done. Thanks for proving me right duder

>>520843517
>No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man (John 3:13)
???

>>520843338
>I used to assume Catholics would worship Saints and Mary as idols. Untrue. When praying to God, THROUGH them, it lends an extra voice to your prayer. That's all. Lead it to prots and kikes to twist it into something that it's not.
The cult of Madonna are those who use saints as mediators.
There is no need to put anyone between your prays. It doesn't increase the power of your prayers or being you close to God.
God know what's in your heart before you pray, and there is no way to increase the power of your prayers through someone else.

>>520843384
>>520843206
Protestants are so deep in their prideful delusion that they actually believe the title "full of grace" is due to them. I'm really glad that I was able to get you to admit this. It's incredibly revealing.

protestants worship the god of self

>>520843834
>#
>Protestants are so deep in their prideful delusion that they actually believe the title "full of grace" is due to them
Nothing is due to me my friend. Jesus asked that I have faith and believe in Him and I do.

It's that simple. It's very telling that you have to lie a lot though

>>520843834
why do catholics always accuse of pride when confronted with the scripture God provided us with?
you can read it yourself you know, its not a sin.

>>520843668
Did you read the story of Adam and Eve? Why does sin exist? Why did God curse us to toil and limit our life spans? Mary was a mortal, there is no indication in the Scriptures that she was born sinless or made to be sinless or assumed into heaven. This is Catholic tradition, be it real, just a story, something that taught a lesson, whatever the purpose it seems to have crept in from somewhere.

>>520843692
Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

>>520843862
I've never seen so-called followers of Christ who hate his very words as much as Catholics on this board do

>>520843989
Why do you hate John 6 so much then? Protestants HATE that verse because it completely invalidates their entire false religion

>>520843915
Due as in "owed to." Which is exactly what you and your fellow prot stated >>520843206

>>520843917
Read the thread, I'm only asking very simple questions about scripture. The answers are telling.

>>520843989
Catholics get nasty when you point out the features of their cultus and its resemblance to a certain thing in the last Book of the Bible.

All we want to see is a bit of reform, to tone it down a hair. And it's been done before, Pope Gregory for instance as related in another post above. Perhaps this Pope will chuck out the Pachamama idols.

>>520830899 (OP)
this spic nigger is the biggest CIA op since Kennedy, very few people get this

1 Timothy 2:5 states: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus".

>1 Timothy 2:5 states: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus".

1 Timothy 2:5 states: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus".

>>520843278
>who were to be killed as they themselves had been
>killed as they themselves
Bro, you just added the literal proof that they are dead, and then continue to claim they're "just resting". You sound like the pet shop guy in the Monty Python dead parrot sketch. "Nah, 'e's just restin'!"

>>520844048
>Why do you hate John 6 so much then?
Another lie

>>520844087
You mean to tell me Jesus was lying when he asked for acceptance and faith in Him

>>520844048
catholics hate nothing more than John 6 because it invalidates God sovereignty when it comes to faith.
>It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) 65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

>>520843458
Demon babble

>>520844155
can you fucking read
>Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer
>told to rest a little longer
its literally what God said.

>>520844048
Whatever he made is gone man, it got replaced by Constantine and his Roman Pagan nonsense. It got so bad that the Church did an inquisition on itself under Pope Gregory.

Christianity according to the Creed has spread across the whole world. Peter did a lot of great stuff for the Church, but that also led to the brutal suppression of the Christians there and early records are very sketchy. Early lists of Popes are iffy, and date to over a thousand years after Peter's time. Just for instance.

The Church is all around you. Anybody who believes the Creed is a Christian, even if they don't go to any Church at all.

>>520844154
B-but what if Jesus Christ gets tired? Or maybe if you pray to his mom she will knock on his office door and let him know this is a super special prayer? Or some Saint? I am just trying to figure out the logic here. Maybe in Catholic-land the prayer hall is staffed with Saints and Jesus is like the CEO and you don't want to bother him too much? But Mary is the phone lady and you call her first.

>>520844344
I'm open to being proven wrong about anything I've said my friend. If yoi can't engage in good faith then don't engage at all

>>520844156
Never said that. Meanwhile you're doubling down on >>520843038 Nothing out of prots surprises me anymore though desu. I'm just glad we got you to admit it. I see why you were so recalcitrant though, as given how indefensible it is.

>>520844228
>invalidates
validates

>>520844557
>Never said that
It's the implication. >>520844557
>Meanwhile you're doubling down on >>520843038 #
Correct. Because it's what Jesus preached and said my friend

>>520844557
>as given how indefensible it is.
Why do these people hate the words of Christ so much?

>>520843862
all non-jews fighting wars and infighting serve jewish ends.
jewish agitators are the reasons the christians fight about their version

>>520844760
>Jesus said the title "full of grace" is for me
He did? Where's that in scripture? Because I can point to scripture to show how the title was literally owed to Mary, and how even she wondered at it.

It's so incredibly ironic how prots recoil at scripture when it's inconvenient for them.

>>520844945
>>Jesus said the title "full of grace" is for me
He granted me full grace with my faith in Him.

Simple as

>>520844945
>Where's that in scripture?
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

>>520844945
>recoil at scripture when it's inconvenient for them.
Which is exactly what you're doing

>>520841678
Imaginary friends don't code well.
Real facts do, though.
Like the overall drop in religious peoples in this millennium.

In a few decades, cultists like you will be pointed towards institutionalization.

>>520845151
Wait a second pastor jimbob, you said the title "one who is full of grace" is owed to you equally just as it is Mary. That's quite a bit different from saying "I also receive grace." Do you understand that? Hence the honorific given to Mary wasn't "one who receives (some) grace."

>>520844945
what so hard to get that God dishes out grace as HE wants and not like you want?

>>520845343
>you said the title
I never said anything about titles. You did..

>>520831928
>Either God ensouls it
You male brides of christ have gone hilariously far with your head canon.

Post anything about religion sourced from "jewish tales" and all the schizos in pol will come to flood it, trying to point out their god of jews fath has akshchually nothing to do with it. And they are the real jews now, the choosen ones.

>>520845343
>you said the title "one who is full of grace" is owed to you
This is another lie.

Again, why is lying so easy for these people? Do they really take confession for granted this much?