Thread 520938592

Why has the far-right not called out the myth that Irish, Italians, Slavs, etc. were not considered "White" in America and the Anglosphere at large?

When people make this claim, they never cite any actual evidence for it. The closest I've seen for evidence of this is a private diary entry from Charles Dawrin's brother who said the Irish looked like "White chimpanzees" after a visit to Ireland. I shouldn't have to point out that even if this piece of evidence, the Irish are called "White".

Another piece of evidence often cited is the book "The Passing of the Great Race". It is claimed that this book described non-Protestant immigrant groups as "non-White". But I read this book, and not only does the book list the Irish as "White", it places them in the highest caste (Nordic). It also claims all Europeans are "White", including Italians, just in different categories.

The discrimination Irish Catholics faced in America was entirely limited to the North of the country where divisions were by religion (Protestant WASPS vs. White Catholic immigrant groups). In the South, it's well known by historians that the Irish Catholics integrated well into the White vs Black society of the Antebellum South and became reliable Democrat voting slave owners. Irish, even in the North, were known for their sympathies for the Confederacy for this very reason because they knew they would be better off in an America that was divided by race rather than religion.

Italians and other non-Protestant immigrant groups faced similar issues. It was never about race, but about religion. In fact, it's forgotten that German Catholics were also not welcome in America. The Know Nothing Party didn't just target Irish and Italian Catholics, German and French Catholics were also attacked in their literature. Of course, no one tries to make the claim that they did not consider the Germans or French "White".

>>520938592 (OP)
let me remind you that the founders were Deists, and they didn't want any organized religion in America.

>>520939681
yeah really funny how quick shit goes fucko

>>520938592 (OP)
>In the South, it's well known by historians that the Irish Catholics integrated well into the White vs Black society of the Antebellum South and became reliable Democrat voting slave owners
It's true the south is heavily populated by the Irish and Welsh mixed Anglo's.
The thing people never take into account is the actual math and real living conditions of the south at that time, most people do this thing were they view the past through their own experiences and not the day to day reality of the past.
For instant the fundamental demographics of haves and have nots hasn't really changed much and your average redneck hillbilly wouldn't have much interact negative or positive with slaves or other races at all.They was too busy trying to survive.

>>520938592 (OP)
You won't get any engaging, thoughtful conversation here, anon.

>>520938592 (OP)
It's just one more tactic of the left to try to to convince people that race isn't real so you should't care about your own.

>>520938592 (OP)
Do you see now that religion supplants race?

>>520940384
Also this.

>>520938592 (OP)
Not true. My grandfather was the son of two irish immigrants in the early 1900s and I remember my grandmother telling me how her dad chased my grandfather off of her with a shotgun pointed at him and told her she can't marry irishmen. My grandmother was actually a mayflower descendant too. But my grandfather pestered her and basically waited until her dad died and when he got back from WW2 he married her.

>>520938592 (OP)
Weren't italians and catholics in general banned from gentlemen clubs in the old south?

>>520938592 (OP)
Cool it with the antisemitism.

>>520938592 (OP)
I'm not white, I'm jewish.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mirL15zZYNc&list=RDmirL15zZYNc&start_radio=1&pp=ygUUbm90IHdoaXRlIGknbSBqZXdpc2igBwE%3D

All of a sudden jews want to hide among the whites again

>>520940708
Honestly yeah the divide among Whites over denomination was insane.

>>520941283
>>520940708
It should also be pointed out that religion sometimes was just a pretext for larger political issues. For instance, the Irish not converting to Protestantism was partly due to a desire to separate themselves as much as possible from Anglo/British culture.

>>520940836
OP is a liar and a retard

>>520941252
I think this is like the 2% native american meme. People ashamed of being white who cling to any identity possible other than white.
European jews are white.

whiteness is a sliding scale
southern italians are at the bottom of it

>it's well known by historians that the Irish Catholics integrated well into the White vs Black society of the Antebellum South and became reliable Democrat voting slave owners.
No it isn’t. You’re trying to do the mental gymnastics here which makes them sound “based”, which they were not and are not today

White Southern society was overtly and overwhelmingly Anglo Saxon and Scottish. The Irish didn’t go to the South because there were not the welfare, union and government funded programmes available to them there. Why sweat it out trying to be a farmer in Georgia when you could collect welfare in New York? Even if they wanted to try it they were quite clearly not welcome, given that the Klan was primarily an anti Catholic movement
>>520941350
But plenty of them did. And there are plenty of Catholics in the UK. And the only reason there was Roman Catholicism in Ireland in the first place is because Henry II was ordered by the Pope to enforce it there

They stuck with Catholicism because it was a perfect fit for a lazy, superstitious and cowardly race of people

>>520938592 (OP)
Could it be that they're just a bunch of lying faggots trying to delegitimize the concept of race?

>>520941728
>No it isn’t. You’re trying to do the mental gymnastics.
Really? Go do any research on the topic. Even videos on Jewtube include this information. In fact, here, I'll link a video and include a screenshot for you so you don't have to look for it yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhuyuXfbI40&t=1917s

>You’re trying to do the mental gymnastics here which makes them sound “based”
The Irish aren't "based". They've always had Leftist sympathies because they see themselves as a colonized people. The prime example of this is the Troubles where the IRA was funded by communist groups and third worlders.

>And there are plenty of Catholics in the UK.
>Plenty
2% of the population and that's an increase from past eras.

>>520938592 (OP)
Still whiter than you though. That's good enough these days. We can have the same argument again once we are back to world war 2 levels of Europeana

>>520938592 (OP)
>jews
>white

>sand niggers from africa and the desert shitbox are European
Lol literally not at all. Not by language, culture, or dna

>>520942030
Exactly. This idea of proximity to Whiteness wasn't even a thing until the 60s when debates regarding immigration reform were taking place.

>>520942179
>>520942232
Yea, I don't agree Jews are White. They are literally descended from Arabia. Many "look" White, though. That's about it.

>>520942030
>>520942235

>>520938592 (OP)
It's more that ethnic jews have shown to behave in a way antithetical to polite and high-ordered civilized society.
So we've chosen to exclude and ostracize them, for good reason, from our group.
They no longer are white according to us, and they don't get a say until they change their behavior.
(Spoilers: they won't)

>>520942179
Why do all those "half negroes" look so jewish?

>>520942434
>Why do all those "half negroes" look so jewish?

>>520938592 (OP)
Why did you cut the author's name out?

>>520942235
>This idea of proximity to Whiteness wasn't even a thing until the 60s when Jews hiding among Whites.

>>520942541
WELP

>>520942541
I didn't intentionally crop it out. But, now that I see the name, it's clear why "Bernstein" included Jews in the title. Although, I think my points that I've made so far in this thread regarding the "Whiteness" of Italians and Irish (and other non-WASP groups) still stand.

>>520942683
'White' and 'European' are not one and the same.

>>520942738
Explain the difference.

>>520938592 (OP)
Sorry but Jews are not White and never will be.

>>520942882
Yes, I already said this. I shouldn't have even used included that screenshot. I didn't get any of my info from that article.

Jews are from Arabia and therefor are not European, therefor are not White.

>>520942776
>Explain the difference.
the reason "jews" exist is because they're a mixed populatio of indo-european
>luwians
who were the FIRST indo-europeans to have a locally created writing system, who came from ancient east anatolia

after the
>bronze age collapse
>1200BC until civilizations recovered around 800BC
arameans
>'semites'
invaded syria, which up to that point had been indo-european
or
>white
until that point

the luwian-aramean states formed after the destruction of the hittite empire as small states in northren syria/eastern anatolia when the arameans appeared there, which gave rise to a new hybrid species of human - and that's who jews are

keeping in mind
>modern 'block script' "hebrew" is written using the aramean alphabet/"abjad"
and
>Jesus Christ spoke aramean

>>520943666
>>luwians
>who were the FIRST indo-europeans to have a locally created writing system, who came from ancient east anatolia

>>520943666
>>520943698
that's why they

>look like white people
but are not

>>520943666
>the luwian-aramean states formed after the destruction of the hittite empire as small states in northren syria/eastern anatolia when the arameans appeared there, which gave rise to a new hybrid species of human - and that's who jews are

>>520938592 (OP)
Oh please, these motherfuckers put the Irish into indentured servitude and then had signs that Irish need not apply. These people who show up not get preferential treatment unless they are complete drooling retards. I don't want to hear boo about it from any of these new immigrants

>>520939681
>>520939773
>Founders were a single monolithic block with the exact same beliefs and they never changed at all throughout their lives
Even granting you the Founders were largely Deists, they at the very least knew a large slice of their current population was protestant and the culture would develop around their ideas.

>>520938592 (OP)
There's definitely evidence you retard.
Google Wicklow gaol. Look at the deawings they have from newspapers depicting Irish people as monkeys.
What you say about Ireland and Catholic discrimination only being in the north is entirely untrue. Jesus, you're actually a dangerous fucking idiot. You know a lot less than you think.
Here's some examples: King Henry the VIII burning all of the monasteries. Google it.
The penal laws (laws preventing Catholics working in any professions or being educated).
The famine.
Shut the fuck up you stupid American piece of shit and stop trying to educate others when you have literally no idea what you're talking about.

>>520944744
My b thought.you said north of Ireland.
Yet more evidence we're not white - clearly I can't even read. DUMB DUMB

>>520942541
Because this is a D&C thread made by a kike. While the Irish and Italian may have been tribal they never subverted their host to the point of their detriment and destruction. The largely assimilated after a couple of generations.

>>520942179
well they're poos so they're aryans kek

>>520941721
This is very true but it's also true that whiteness is greatly but not fully correlated with greatness and other positive traits. Baltic countries as very high in the whiteness scale, only slightly below Nordics, and yet their countries are shitholes and they have made almost nothing of note.

>>520943666
>the reason "jews" exist is because they're a mixed population of indo-european
>luwians

>and

>arameans
>'semites'
>whom invaded syria c. 1000 BC
>which up to that point had been indo-european
>or
>white

>>520944911
not exactly, suomi

>>520944911
>327 BC
hebrews already ruled the parts of canaan they could actually wrestle away from the canaanites by 327 BC

and as a place-marker on the historical timeline, josepehus
>an acient canaanite historian during the earlier roman era
says that
>(((carthage)))
was founded by fleeing phoenicians
>(jews)
around the same time
>(((solomon's temple)))
was built

this being
>c, 814 BC

>>520938592 (OP)
accurate, the only time there was any kind of dispute over being a "Real American" is when you had Catholics vs Protestants. Jews have pretty much always been well treated and tolerated in the US.

>>520945667
are her tits real?

>>520944601
>Oh please, these motherfuckers put the Irish into indentured servitude

Most Europeans that cane to America up until around the 1700s were indentured servants and they signed a contract to do seven years of unpaid work in return for the price of their passage to America and a small amount of land after they'd finished their service. Most of the immigrants to America were indentured servants. It wasn't slavery or anything like that.

and then had signs that Irish need not apply.

Only a few examples of this has been found and it probably wasn't widespread and came from people who had bad dealings with Irish immigrants rather than it being widespread and common. Discrimination against Irish immigrants in America is greatly exaggerated.

>>520945764
I doubt it, her IG is jazzypinedaa

they don't seem to have any natural hang, they look like a high over the muscle implant, kind of slutty and stripper-ish but it still gets me sprung.

>>520938592 (OP)
That headline title doesn't seem very impartial.

>>520947066
DAMN girl

yeah they look like a couple of plastic beach balls compressed beneath those beads

>>520946512
Please don't speak about my people you mick bastard

>>520938592 (OP)
Read Susan b Anthony correspondence to Cady Stanton

>>520941599
>European jews are white
Wrong

>>520938592 (OP)
>It is claimed that this book described non-Protestant immigrant groups as "non-White". But I read this book, and not only does the book list the Irish as "White", it places them in the highest caste (Nordic)
Why did he do that when irish are clearly albino africans?

>>520938592 (OP)
>jews
Nice try kikes, you still aren't White. And nobody except the most retarded amerimutts ever thought the Irish or Italians weren't White.

>>520938592 (OP)
>those goddam wasps!
>let me into your race. forget I hate you.
No. You can be European, and not White. Go be what you are away from me.

If they hadn't been considered white they wouldn't have been allowed to emigrate to the USA.

>>520940836
>dads chase off persuers of their daughters only because they think they are literal niggers
kill yourself you absolute moron.

>>520941372
Shut the fuck up you commie faggot.

>>520938592 (OP)
We do. The lie on it's face is so patently retarded that we really don't even feel the need to counter it. Secondly people don't say this bullshit nearly as much as they did in say the 90s. The majority of "Anti Racist" theology has been completely smashed to pieces nobody buys this bullshit anymore the only thing they push now is just blind niggerloving that's the only shibboleth we haven't crushed yet.

>>520938592 (OP)
A problem is that 'race' has changed meaning over the last 100 years.
Now it applies to big continent-sized groupings of people
But back then it applied to any group of people of common descent. (A man's family was sometimes called his 'race'.)
So Anglo/Germanics considered the Irish to be a different 'race' (Celtic/Gaelic) to themselves, yes, but this doesn't mean they were considered 'non-white'.
(Nowadays we use 'ethnicity' to describe this kind of grouping.)

>>520946512
>Most of the immigrants to America were indentured servants. It wasn't slavery or anything like that.
It was the H1B program of its day. Not slavery, but not freedom either.

>>520940669
>one more tactic of the left to try to to convince people that race isn't real
Yes, the argument that race is socially constructed. Now the Irish are colored. Now they're white. It's all arbitrary.
It depends on deliberately misunderstanding that 'race' meant a different thing 150 years ago than it does today.

>>520938592 (OP)
The Irish absolutely were not. Enslaved Irish were treated WAY fucking worse than black slaves because black slaves had some type of value attributed to their strength/longevity while Irish slaves would basically melt in the sun.

>>520938592 (OP)
>>520939681
>>520940708
>>520940384
>>520950290

>were not considered "White" in America and the Anglosphere at large?
Reminder that Ben Franklin line was not only fake and pushed here by Talmuds and BRICS shills but it wasn't even policy.

>>520938592 (OP)
"White" is meaningless and as we've seen it's just a convenient way for Jews to claim they are like us when they're not.

>>520947907
Who cares
>>520949584
No, it hasn't. It just depends on what you mean and when. Race means big continental groups today as it did back then as much as it can mean someone's family or a country.

>>520947697
What are you talking about?

Irish
Italians
Jews

One of these is not like the others.

>>520950406
It's more meaningful in America because most of us are made up of various different European ethnicities.

>>520944941
Their streets are still cleaner than yours

>>520944601
>they didn't like them, that means they thought they were niggers
retarded disingenuous nigger.

>>520943666
Wrong. Arameans were Hurrian. Semitic in language only.
Amorites were Semitic.
Jews are Elamite-Chaldean which means in spite of Canaanite admixture, they’re Ethiopic-Dravidian at core.

>>520944744
>just look at the monkey putin meme
>they thought the russians were niggers
You stupid fucking piece of shit.

>>520944822
Go fuck yourself you lying cunt.

>>520951637
>Arameans were Hurrian.
that's a coloredly-judaic lie

where's your proof?

besides, the aramean WERE semites/arabs

deal with it

>>520951910
>aram-damascus
>hamath

>>520951019
Irish

>>520952056
Wasn't what I was going for but I laughed.

>>520951910
They are called Semitic because they speak a Semitic language but they integrated with the indo European Hittites and fought the Israelites and Amorites.

I suspect when middle Assyria conquered Mitanni, the Hurrian slaves were forced to speak pidgin Assyrian and this is how Aramaic emerged.

The great King Arame from the Aramaic homeland (the Mitanni-Hurrian homeland Hanigabalt) founded the Armenian Arsacid dynasty

>>520951992
But bahiana was a Chaldean tribe. But the Arameans and the Chaldeans both seem to be the remnant Hurrians after the fall of Mitanni.
The Medes, the origin of the Persians it’s all tied to this.

>>520938592 (OP)
This is an attempt to get Jews to be considered right, since they are trying to define the "woke right" as anti-zionist. When the right calling out the woke shit the most are the same voices calling out the kikes. It's also ironic because they're trying to point the finger while using the same woke cancel culture tactics, and pointing that out literally exposes them all.
>the Hate speech fiasco by Bondi
>Trump's anti-semitism bill provisions etc.
It's super easy to sway people and see the "woke" in the one's pointing the finger.

>>520938592 (OP)
WHITE POWERRRRRRRRRR

>>520953134
>seem to be

the hurriansa followed the scythians to northwest india and brought ancient vedic bullshit with them

that's why the indian state of
>haryana
exists today

A lot of the far right is nordicist and hates those groups so you're dead wrong.