Thread 18594762

The greatest work in wrestling history

what? that bret hart is a good performer?

But enough about benoit's death

>>18594766
>implying he wasn't

>>18594773
bret blows

>>18594807
if you think bret wasn’t great then maybe just stop watching wrestling

>>18594762 (OP)
Sometimes I seriously wonder if Bret being extra-bitter all these years during interviews is a work, or at the very least a worked shoot
Why? Because anyone who watched WWE in '97 remembers that was pretty much his onscreen gimmick for that year. He was always crying and whining about something and about someone screwing him over, even other wrestlers like Austin and Sid were calling him out on this during segments
Then all of a sudden the screwjob happened which was him allegedly being screwed over as a shoot? And now he spends the rest of his life complaining about how others wronged him?
It all seems a little too perfect for me

>>18594762 (OP)
only the biggest most retarded marks think it was a work, sometimes reality is stranger than fiction

>>18594832
Everybody would have won if only WCW didn't mishandle Bret

>>18594832
he’s probably bitter because they dropped his brother 80 feet to his death on live tv, or because his family was full of nightmare people who blame him for their not being rich, or because his first marriage ended in shame and his ex-wife did a full revenge book against him, or because he had a fucking stroke
bret has had a fucking miserable life, it’s not a stretch to imagine why

>>18594860
>Bret’s ex
Not to detract from the other points but Bret absolutely earned his divorce lol. Implicates himself plenty in his own book.

>>18594875
Haven't read his book. What does he say about it?

>>18594860
>his ex-wife did a full revenge book against him
Dude shamelessly cheated on her several times by his own admission
Julie might have let herself go but she was loyal and was the mother to his kids, she didn't deserve that
I always backed Bret in him fighting Shawn over the Sunny days comment, until I learned he was cheating for real. Even if he didn't sleep with Sunny specifically he still slept with other women. Not saying Shawn was right to bring it up but Bret was wrong too

>>18594830
party’s over grandpa

>>18594762 (OP)
smarks: the Screwjob was a work
also smarks: Bret is always so bitter, he still cries about the Screwjob

>>18594899
Does anyone know if his kids were ever trying to be wrestlers?

Bret is always bitter because even though he's one of the best wrestlers in the history of wrestling, which is a fact, this greatness doesn't directly translate into money or popularity, he believes that he should be a cultural icon, to be as big as Hogan or SCSA, but the reality is that he's simply not, he's a solid tier below or maybe even 2 tiers below, and he will always blame WCW and mostly Goldberg for that.

>>18594890
He cheated on her constantly

>>18595629
so Bret may not have screwed Bret but he damn near screwed everybody else

>>18595617
out of everything that hogan has ever said, that is what pissed me off the most.
sucks for me having Hogan and Bret as my top 2 favorite wrestlers, all they ever did was bury each other

>>18594762 (OP)
>he didn't even know how to apply the sharpshooter, I had to help him
KWAB

>>18595629
Is that the one you see in the Wrestling with Shadows documentary?

>>18594899
Look at this fag defending a whore

>>18594762 (OP)
Are these two actually okay with each other now or is that a work

>>18595683
Bret is still salty af, but they can be professional with each other.

>>18595617
he could not have said anything more based than this

>>18595617
When did that happen? Is there footage of that?

>>18595617
>>18595719
Stu is stretching Hogan's ass right now

>>18595730
He'll have to wait until Sheiky baby is done with him

>>18595683
Shawn isn't the same person so he's directed most of his ire and Vince and HHH

>>18595730
Andre, Bam Bam and Earthquake will protect Hogan

>>18595728
Believe it or not, that's Hogan's recollection of the Montreal Screwjob
That Shawn shoot 'pinned' Bret. He also said it happened at Wrestlemania, kek

I do think it was a work. Bret had Vince's blessing to go to WCW. He told him to "go get his money". The screwjob angle let him drop the belt without taking an L or simply vacating. It also set up the Mr. McMahon character. Not to mention Bret's documentary cameras backstage.

Truly a masterwork.

>>18595927
IF it is a work, then ONLY Bret and Vince are in on it. they worked Shawn and Hunter into thinking they screwed Bret.
and Bret and Vince told NO ONE else, not even any Hart or McMahon family members.
that is the only possible way it could be a work.

>>18595746
Sheiky wouldn't do that, he's not CHAMPION OF FACKIN' GAY BAR

>>18595683
Shawn mellowed out with age, Bret at this point has more of a grudge with Hunter for being the one who suggested it to begin with then he does with Shawn doing it.

>>18595882
I wouldn't be surprised if he claimed that he came up with the screwjob and quickly called Vince about it.

>>18595984
PUT HIM IN CAMEL CLUTCH, BREAK HIS BACK AND THAN FUCK HIS ASS

>>18594762 (OP)
The 9/11 of professional wrestling.

>>18595746
>>18595984
>>18596032
I miss Iron Sheik

>>18595939
That would be the ultimate swerve if one of them on their deathbeds reveal it was all a work, but I doubt it.

>>18596052
The thing is, if Bret somehow died first and Vince said it was a work, I'm not sure a lot of people would believe him
Some might even see it as a sign of dementia, kek

>>18595994
it's all Hunter's fault.
Bret was going to win at Survivor Series then Shawn would win a final match either on RAW or the december PPV
hunter literally ruined wrestling forever, all because he was mad at bret for not losing to him on a random Raw before and also for not beating Rocky on Raw. everything stems from hunter's jealousy of dwayne

>>18594762 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ncEI81LhIU

>>18596066
>then Shawn would win a final match either on RAW or the december PPV
How would that work when Bret is at wcw?

One thing that always made me think its a work is Bret tossing the monitors and shit. Would he really have a childish tantrum like that instead of confronting the people involved. Maybe his inner carny took over

>>18596089
Didn't they have a month still before Bret left?

>>18596089
Bret doesn't show up in November in WCW, despite what people like sean oliver try to say
Bret never could've been on nitro the next night, he was still under WWF contract.
bischoff could only mention bret's name the next night, that's it.
bret still had more dates left and had agreed to do a few more shows after but the screwjob changed all that and bret just never showed up to any of them.

>>18596089
Bret was going to win in Canada, then lose the rematch and leave. It would've left it at Bret 1, HBK 2. That was the agreement.

If Bret's main issue was he had to job to Shawn out of anyone, why didn't they just put him against someone else and save themselves the drama?

>>18594762 (OP)
List of people I have heard call it a work
>Scott Hall
>Sean Waltman
>Kevin Nash
100% shoot

>>18596104
>>18596113
>>18596114
His WCW contract literally started the Monday after SS. It just contained a clause that he couldn't appear yet for a certain time period.

>>18594830
Based, if you don't like bret hart you don't like wrestling

>>18594832
The beat wrestling characters are the wrestler turned up to 11. Bret is a moaner, that's why his Promos went from mediocre to excellent in 96/97. He probably is bitter because his brother died in a dimeless gimmick when they hired a conman for the stunt.

>>18596130
they could have done an injury angle, someone takes out Shawn backstage or whatever, it would've been the easiest thing in the world.

for example 2 years later, survivor series 99 they replaced Austin with Big Show the night of the show despite advertising Austin for the PPV

easily could have done an angle the week before on Raw where Shawn puts his title shot on the line and then loses it, and it wouldn't even have to be a clean job either

>>18596144
makes no sense because Bret was booked for Monday Night Raw in Ottawa to either vacate the belt in a promo or drop it in a match to.. whoever vince wanted apparently

>>18596144
He was meant to show up on raw and forfeit the belt. Vince just didn't want Bischoff announcing Bret was coming to WCW while still being the WWF champion, would have been a bad look.

>>18596130
Because the whole reason they were jettisoning bret was that they picked shawn over him. 94-97 was all about Vince trying to get shawn over, it failing, and then trying again. This was the only attempt that worked Because they finally figured out shawn would only work as a heel. HBK is the original roman.

Too much of this shit is up in the air to really argue over. Like Bret claims Shawn told him he would never drop a title for him, Bret claims he'd have happily dropped the title anywhere but Canada, Shawn claims he would have dropped a title, it's all fucking high school tier "she said she said" shit

if its a work why didn't vince bring bret back (like they originally agreed to in the 20 year deal) as a consultant or road agent or some other type of role?

i'm talking about after wcw dies in 2001. bret and vince don't do any sort of business at least publicly until 2005. and bret never joined the WWF/WWE front office.

unless that was a ruse too and bret never had any interest in doing that

>>18596217
>Shawn claims he would have dropped a title
no shawn admits that bret's recollection is more reliable than his own due to his admitted state of fuckedupness throughout the 90s and into the early 00s.

besides, shawn had no title to drop to bret. the belt was on bret in all of their matches.

>>18596220
Bret is old school. Kayfabe above everything

what if that whole story in 2005 of the supposed planned DVD "Screwed: The Bret Hart Story" was all just a red herring to explain Bret coming back into the fold and cooperating with WWE on a DVD documentary?

>>18596130
Can someone explain to me why they didn't just have Bret vs. Taker at Survivor Series, let Bret lose via some interference and go to WCW, then have Shawn take the belt off Taker clean to look strong and go from there?
Remember, Bret won the belt from Taker only after Shawn accidentally hit Taker with a chair. So having him lose the belt right back to Taker via more shenanigans would make sense
And before someone mentions hotshotting, the WWE title changed hands 7 times that year

>>18594960
Exactly, let the shitters Do the "wrestling" now.

>>18596263
right and Shawn goes over Taker in the casket match at Royal Rumble anyway so that could've been the title change match to get the belt back on Shawn in time for WM/SCSA

plus Taker really should've gotten win back on Bret anyway.

>>18596277
thinking about it more tho, i don't think they've ever changed the title in a casket match. probably wouldn't be ideal, but they always could've changed it to a different stipulation if it was a title match

>>18596263
I think Jim Cornette mentioned in an interview that this idea was floated, but Shawn shot it down, because he wanted to get the belt from Bret.

My headcanon is that it was all supposed to be a work but then turned into a shoot. Bret was supposed to be screwed and end up in WCW but then he was eventually supposed to come back for the greatest revenge angle ever told. His reaction after getting tapped out just looks way too artificial, especially for Bret. But then he got injured and WCW kept booking him and his pride refused to let him object to it and eventually his body just couldn’t take it anymore. So the whole thing went from being what could’ve been the greatest work ever worked to a shoot. And of course Bret would be bitter about the whole thing while Shawn and Vince kept quiet about their failed angle

>>18596263
>Taker at Survivor Series
what was he even doing there that night? he didn't have a match. yet he was in the back
hell, why not have Taker come out at the start of the match and demand it be made into a triple threat
then you could even have Shawn get a pin over Taker to get the title

>>18595666
It's the one you see in the mind of a schizo

>>18595617
I love how Hogan talks about Bret. Bret tries to be polite and professional about it meanwhile Hogan just doesn’t give a fuck

>>18596324
>talks
anon...

>>18596263
>>18596315
only reason bret had the belt was due to shawn's chairshot at summerslam.
only reason shawn was #1 contender was due to kane's interference at the badd blood hell in a cell match
so taker could claim he's the rightful champion or #1 contender because he was never beaten properly

>>18596313
>but Shawn shot it down, because he wanted to get the belt from Bret.
Which he already did before at WM12. Classic asshole Shawn

>>18596324
they both trashed the other constantly, but the difference is if bret died i *think* Hogan would have at least tried to be classy and respectful
whereas bret gave zero fucks and trashed hogan mere days after he died

>>18596339
imagine if kane never debuted or intervened in that match
Taker would have won and went on to Series vs Bret and there would be no screwjob

>>18595939
I don't know if anybody else was in on it but it was definitely a work, the idea was bret goes away until vince can hire him back and then they would restart the feud with shawn. If owen hadn't died and he didn't have a stroke, that's what would've happened. As far as them still working people goes, the screwjob is big business and keeps bret relevant.

People thinking the screwjob was a work are legit retarded. I bet you guys thing the earth is flat as well.

>>18594830
>if you think bret wasn’t great then maybe just stop watching wrestling
thats exactly what everyone did kek

as a big Bret fan, I would be happy if it was a work and I wish it were.
why?
because that would mean Bret was comfortable with it and wasn't actually screwed by Vince at all.

The funniest thing about the Bret/Shawn feud in 1997 is that by October it was clear that both were essentially feuding over who would be the guy to job to Austin at WrestleMania 14.

IMHO Bret vs Austin at WrestleMania 14 would've been peak as it basically would:
>have Austin finally beat Bret (which he never did)
>have the future ace of the Attitude Era defeating the ace of the New Generation Era (as much as I like Shawn, he was NOT the FOTC during the New Gen era)
>been a much better match as Bret would still be fit and could carry post-neck injury Austin to a good match, while Shawn was held back by his nagging back injury

>>18596465
Shawn beat Bret clean and later on Bret won the belt through shenanigans. So Shawn>Bret was pretty established, so having Austin beat Shawn clean was much more impactful.

>>18596680
>Shawn beat Bret clean
bret retained clean in a time limit draw. the time limit expiring forced bret to release the sharpshooter which shawn eventually would've submitted to.

>>18596395
Lmfao

>>18596704
Wrestling died and you're laughing.

>>18596697
sounds like a skill issue

>>18596697
>>18596715
blame monsoon. it was monsoon's fault and he had no jurisdiction over that match to begin with.
Piper was acting interim WWF President and made the match. Monsoon comes back at WrestleMania and decides out of nowhere the match has sudden death rules despite that not being a rule for any other Iron Man Match or WWF match in general.

>>18596753
So Bret got screwed in kayfabe and again irl the next year

>>18596383
Nothing ever happens but for wrestling kek

>>18596753
if only Piper was still the WWF President on that night, there's no way he would have fucked over the Champ like that. what a disgrace.

just realized we missed out on having Heenan commentating while Monsoon was WWF President, he would've ridiculed all of Gorilla's decisions

kek Nash still says its a work

>>18594762 (OP)
Uh, this aint seth rollins and his knee.

>>18596781
>trust me bro wrestling was real for this one match

>>18597251
Scott Hall said so as well in the dark side of the ring documentary

>>18594762 (OP)
>The greatest work in wrestling history
Yep! Worked out for Vince, HBK and WWF.
Bret? Not so much. Turned into an angry lesbian.

>>18594832
>And now he spends the rest of his life complaining about how others wronged him?
PTSD
His life ended in 1997.

Bret was wrong.
It wasn't a gay magazine!

>>18597276
This is the logical conclusion, yes

>>18595617
the immortal from the top rope

>>18595577
>Could've earned money in shoot interviews during the 2000s
>Could've become a podcaster since the advent of YT monetization
>Could've earned money in documentaries since the advent of Netflix
>Didn't
Why does Bret keep on screwing Bret?

>>18597488
>>Could've earned money in shoot interviews during the 2000s
He did. I bought them.
>>18597488
>>Could've become a podcaster
He did. for a spell. he got bored of it. he actually doesn't like going over the same old shit week after week
>>18597488
>>Could've earned money in documentaries
He did. famously.

>>18597488
there is no wrestler that has been written about or talked about more than Bret Hart. documentaries, books, podcasts, it's a cottage industry. post-retirement Bret has kept many people in business just by giving them so much to talk about. he's the Orson Welles of wrestling.

What do you schmucks know about a work brother

>>18597472
If you're a complete mark yeah