Thread 18739366

>No console waring
>No ad hominens that don't add anything
>no samefagging
>no schizoposting about how everyone I don't like is actually bitchtits or ojama or rovert or whoever.
>no ironic Tony Khan dickriding like in /tzg/
If you can't follow these rules, please go shit up some other thread.

Now here is my piece(part 1 of 3)
I think AEW is losing its identity and slowly dying because of Tony Khan's booking.
The founding fathers of AEW, in my opinion, are Cody Rhodes, Chris Jericho, Jon Moxley and Kenny Omega. I define them as such, not just because they have been there since the beginning but because they put AEW on the map, especially Jericho, who at the time was the biggest draw.
Now, whatever you think of Jericho, the fact is that he was AEW's first champion and the majority of AEW's early fans decided to check this thing out because they heard that Jericho was the Champ there and maybe saw a clip on YouTube. Now Jericho is on his way out and reportedly on bad terms with Tony Khan, Cody who swore he would never leave AEW left years ago, and the story was the same.
I don't think I need to remind you what happened with CM Punk.
(...)

(part 2 of 3)
This presents the problem with Tony, his inability not to take business personally, and as we know from media scrams, he really wants to be friends with his employees.
When wrestlers leave Tony, he feels betrayed, and it badly influences his booking. I think the way he books the women's division illustrates it the best...
Tony's two biggest pet projects both came from the women's division Jade Cargill and Maria May, currently known as Blake Monroe.
Both of them were hated by the smarky part of Tony's audience for admitting not being the best wrestlers, but Tony saw something in them, he made Jade his own Goldberg, and got Mariah May over as a champion, not just eye candy. Then both of them got poached by HHH who probably wouldn't give a shit about them otherwise and was likely motivated by his shoot hatred of Tony.
This influenced how Tony books now. He doesn't want to create any new stars because he's afraid they will just leave him and go to WWE. MJF threatening to do that fed further his paranoia.
In the latest media scrum, he buried the AEW original women's division, saying that the current roster is 10 times better than the 2019 one(that includes Brit Baker and Shida who both have not been seen on TV in ages.

No buddy sadly.

(part 3 of 3)
Now let's go through TK's current champions and main eventers to provide more proof for my thesis.
>Hangman Adam Page
Obviously, never going to WWE. Getting him over was the point of the first storyline plan for AEW. He seems to actually like working there and CM Punk, who has some pull with HHH really hates him and would def sperg out if haitch ever hired him.
>Toni Storm
Was wasted in WWE, and she's now getting the appreciation she deserves from both Tony and the fans. Plus no fun allowed HHH wouldn't like her gimmick and the main event clique in WWE's women's division would make things difficult for her.
>Mercedes Mone
Hates WWE and doesn't want to come there any time soon. The only way she could quit on Tony is if someone made her rage-quit like Punk.
>Moxley
Currently not a champion, but he and his group main event every other show, he doesn't want to go to WWE and even if AEW didn't exist, he would happily wrestle in broken glass on random indies, proved his loyalty before when he held the AEW championship while not even being under contract. In his own words, he could show up on RAW with the AEW belt, which would be a huge moment for his career and a disaster for AEW.
>Kyle Fletcher
Only outlier here
>Okada
lol
Please discuss
.ps pic for attention

aew sux/E-GODS rule

>>18739372
Toni Storm is Tony's biggest pet project for the women. He seemed to be bored of booking Jade even midway through her TBS run and Mariah's entire AEW career was only to ever serve as a character to help the Timeless act get over and to put Toni over. His booking of women has always been dreadful though. He's about said that if it wasn't expected of AEW to have women on the roster that he just wouldn't so it's about as can be expected. It's why I'm sure he's giddy at being able to just feed everyone to Mercedes in the meantime
>>18739366 (OP)
>I think AEW is losing its identity and slowly dying because of Tony Khan's booking
I agree with this. Maybe not losing its identity but it's certainly not growing. There just isn't any forward thinking. It's all meta callback shit. It's just running through the same motions over and over again to diminishing returns. Look at this year's All In compared to last year's. Not even speaking on attendance. Last year's felt comparable if not better than the actual Wrestlemania. This year's felt like another ho hum average AEW ppv
The weekly booking is shit. Which the ratings and attendance attest to quite thoroughly. The creative is piss poor if existent at all. The man has no balls and allows talent to walk all over him which only makes things even messier. It's living up to the WCW shoes it's trying to fill

>>18739366 (OP)
I agree with this. They had a little momentum going into All In but after Tony completely shit the bed and has produced his worst television ever. At least when he had random indie guys showing up, it was fun and interesting. There is nothing interesting going on at all. Even E and c's reunion flopped. And this is someone who is going to the dynamite show next week saying this. I'm worried its gonna just be another thrown together card with 8 man tags and bullshit no one cares about. You used to be able to go to Dynamites and at least have one match you knew was going to be great. Now, I feel like im just gonna be disappointed and that I wasted my money

>>18739372
>In the latest media scrum, he buried the AEW original women's division, saying that the current roster is 10 times better than the 2019 one(that includes Brit Baker and Shida who both have not been seen on TV in ages.
that's just what tony does. Everything is better than it was before even when it clearly isn't. What, you think he is gonna say that it's gonna through a rough patch and he wants to fix it? Nah tony can never admit shit like that even if he thinks it.

>>18739440
>>18739472
Tony should hire some people from ROH who actually have experience in long-term booking like Cornette said he should, but I think it would hurt his ego too much.
He actually wanted to hire Corny at first and other people in the company, like Cody, did some booking. I think he got high on his own supply after getting the initial positive reinforcement from fans. Now he books everything himself, and he thinks he's doing a great job because Meltzer still likes it.
>>18739513
He always says the product is better than it ever was, but the way he buried the original women's division was different, and I don't think it's a coincidence Brit is advertising gambling apps on xitter, and Shida pretends to have visa problems 'cause that excuse worked during the pandemic

>>18739366 (OP)
No one gives a fuck faggot kys, girl in pic is Skylar Dolecki, you're all welcome

>>18739366 (OP)
The only way AEW can recover is if Tony move's away from trying to control creative and instead hires or puts into position people who have experience booking and writing wrestling. He can still give his input into things but he has to give those people final say, because he's proven he has no talent for this. Even mid-term "normal" booking would be a huge improvement from what is happening. But this will never happen because 1) he already has soured the few people who could have helped him and taken the role
2) Tony will never surrender creative control because that is why the fed exists. He wants to larp and will run the fed into the ground rather than try to save it.
Tony doesn't want AEW to compete with WWE. He wants HIS booking to be what competes with WWE.

I'm not going to waste my time with a long reply but I read your post and all I really have to say is that at this moment I consider AEW to be the best wrestling product, their tv. production is in a much lower level than WWE, in person the show is much more enjoyable, I hope they don't disappear and I also hope they don't become too mainstream to the point of being as uninspired as others

>>18739440
>Toni Storm is Tony's biggest pet project for the women.
Toni already had a reputation and she could get over in any other company, Jade literally never wrestled before and was rejected by wwe and Mariah was seen as a joke by smarks( even though she was always good and smarks just think that woman acting sexual = bad wrestler)

>>18739632
how would you book the current AEW talent? give me a rundown of two months of tv shows

>>18739366 (OP)
>I think AEW is losing its identity and slowly dying because of Tony Khan's booking.

it may not be from the booking. cody wanted to do 80s nwa style booking for his segments. jericho wanted his own nwo style. kenny wanted to do japan workrate, bucks did indy stuff. mox wanted to be terry funk. tony wanted some lucha style sprinkled in. brandi wanted the women to be like the glow netflix show. the identity was 7 or 8 different styles on each show. they even brought in lambert & an mma stable. now it all just blurred together. everyone bleeds, everyone flips & no sells. there are multiple stables trying to take over aew, but they aren't in storylines with each other.

tony does share in the blame for booking decisions. accidentally turning lambert face then taking him off tv, not putting the belt on wardlow after his mjf feud, not putting the belts on the acclaimed when the crowd wanted it. having ruby go over statlander. not doing enough with brisco while the crowd wants to cheer for him. tony seems to punish people for getting over, but it was less obvious when it was only 1 segment per show.

>>18739645
>to the point of being as uninspired as others
They are already here though. Asking you sincerely what angles/matches they are building that you are interested in because right now, there ain't nothing for me and before you claim "edrone falseflag" im the guy who said he is going to dynamite next week and is worried ill be disappointed earlier in the thread

>>18739645
I agree brother, even though I have criticism I still think its better tripple H's shit. I know I said no console warring but I can't hide that.

>>18739651
>how would you book the current AEW talent?
First he needs to cull the roster. You cannot book 150+ wrestlers for 2 tv shows, and maybe 1 soon, and a handful of PPV's per year. He needs to look at the top 25-50 performers he has and cut the rest. Tony has to understand that AEW has to step backwards to regain its footing to move forward in any steady consistent way. Stop thinking about, acting like, mentioning, or competing with AEW. Tony thinks because he has money he can go toe to toe with them. It's like if he argued he could go to war with Russia because he had a lot of money. No infrastructure. Just money. WWE is a machine built over decades. Tony has not even built a foundation in 5 years and a ton of cash.

>>18739678
>Stop thinking about, acting like, mentioning, or competing with AEW.
with WWE.*

>>18739366 (OP)
Damn, how the fuck does dimeless tony have all of the bad bitches and all the fed could get is Rhea and Steph?

>>18739376
>>18739372
>>18739366 (OP)
the issue is tony only hires gay losers who suck inna ring and that no one wants to watch. the young cucks, kenny beta, assplay, hang tranny, kyle fletcher, adam cole, daniel garcia ect all fucking suck. they just do their gay flips per flip shit that's very obviously choreographed. none of them are draws, none of them will ever be draws

>>18739584
With the joshi I think Mina's the only one on Tony's good side right now. I think Tony's pretty much done using Riho, Emi, or Shida and while he'll keep Yuka around to keep Takeshita happy I don't see him really using her much beyond as ROH fodder.

>>18739366 (OP)
Daily reminder that Sky Blue is hideously ugly. I didn't read the rest of your post. I just wanted to point that out.

I constantly shit on AEW on this board to troll the three or four AEW fans that get unreasonably upset when you judge the product. I'm also responsible for making a lot of the Tony jokes and some recent new content. At the same time I actually really don't want AEW to go away because the WWE product is boring as shit right now and I know if they get a major monopoly again they'll just get even worse. So I hope Tony pulls through the slump and he sticks around so we can laugh at him for many years to come.

>>18739648
>Toni already had a reputation and she could get over in any other company
Except she didn't get over in WWE and didn't get over in AEW either until she did the Timeless thing

>>18739653
The chaotic everything in one promotion was fun when AEW was a new promotion, but they needed some overlaying vision.
>not putting the belts on the acclaimed when the crowd wanted it.
Not as bad as burying them when they actually got the belts
ruby go over statlander
>having ruby go over statlander.
I never liked Statlander, so I didn't care. But I understand why people were upset that a wwe reject went over someone who's been there since the begining, I don't think Tony ever like stat either and sees her as an enhancement talent
>not doing enough with brisco
Mark is a janetty, to be brutally honest. Jay would be way more over.
>>18739678
>Stop thinking about, acting like, mentioning, or competing with WWE.
He moved this week's PPV to an earlier hour after trip put his one to compete against him. Also, 99% of wwe mention's in AEW don't come from Tony but for wrestlers doing their own promos. Tony doesn't write scripted promos like wwe and that's good. I don't think he should ever change that.
I think Tony was actually honest when he said he wants to create "alternative wrestling product" and that he was surprised when trip moved NXT to TV because he was friendly to him years earlier when he was NFL guy, destroying the throne at all out was Cody's idea.

>>18739789
>she didn't get over in WWE
every company other than wwe lol
>didn't get over in AEW either until she did the Timeless thing
idk what you're talking about, she debuted in the Owne Hart's tournament, got to the semi finals and only lost to Brit Baker back when she was still a big name. Three months after debuting, she was already fighting for the belt and in 6 months she was already a champion, and she was popular with the fans the entire time.

>>18739376
None of these people are locks to not go to the fed, Punk and Cody going back shows you this kind of fortune telling doesnt work. Stop being a mark. Trips would smack his own son with a sledgehammer to poach Hangman you think he gives a fuck what Punk thinks

>>18739689
Its the straight white man's promotion

Man, I couldn't even tell you where to begin with... But I'll try: AEW feels aimless, that's about the best way I can define its situation, like nothing matters, the main scene is a cycle between the same people time and time again with nothing truly at stake, having hardcore matches for the sake of having them and comedy spots to "own le smarks" that are worse than some 2001 WCW. There's no new faces, no momentum, the booking is all-around a fucking mess and what happened 2 or 3 months ago means nothing, there's no point in investing in it because there's never a payoff.

There's other stuff like the awful selling and how the lack of in-ring psychology hurts the experience, but it's really it's nothing compared to the mess the booking has been since... Geez I don't know, the first time hangman got the title?, think that was the last time the belt actually felt like it had any prestige.

Anyways, the way I see it, first things first Tony has to admit that he's nowhere near the amazing booker he thinks he is, be a bit humble and hire people to help him do the job and actually listen to them.

>>18739822
>Also, 99% of wwe mention's in AEW don't come from Tony but for wrestlers doing their own promos. Tony doesn't write scripted promos like wwe and that's good. I don't think he should ever change that.
So Tony runs everything except he when things don't work or aren't working he can't step in and say something. This is what I mean in that he has to go away from creative. Every wrestler should not be writing their own shit because it is few and far between the guys who know what to say, how to say it, when to say it. And that takes time and work. It takes help many times. People supporting this "Tony doesn't stifle talent" shit are part of the problem. Tony books you into a shit feud but you're free to say what you want. Some guys can talk and some guys can't but Tony isn't going to step on any toes. He is stepping all over this fed. This place needs guidance and so wrestlers. Smart wrestlers understand thats how they grow and dumb ones shouldnt care as long as they get paid. AEW is not competition for WWE. If it ever was it lost that. For anyone who goes, "Well counter programming". That is not them seeing AEW as competition. That is them sick of Tony setting the market price for talent and talking so much shit. WWE's goal isn't "put Tony out of business". It is, was and will always be control the business.

One of the advantages WWE has is the 30 years of modern history they can call back on. Like guys can just come out and start beefing over something that did or didn't happen a decade or two ago. Someone can tell Cody his daddy preferred him to Cody and boom you've got a 3-6 month feud. AEW only really has ROH and other non-televised stuff. Which is fine for the fans that watched that stuff, but a lot of the audience will have no clue

There's also the issue of WWE holding a monopoly for so long. A lot of guys breaking through won't even remember when TNA was hot so they never experienced an alternative or had any need to seek out other wrestling. WWE is what people think of when they think wrestling and always will be. Some girl I know posted a pic of her watching AEW on TV with the caption "Watching WWE with my little man" and I asked if she knew it wasn't actually WWE and she was completely oblivious. She genuinely thought she was watching WWE and was confused she didn't recognise anyone. I think AEW grew too quick too. They had 3 shows within 3 years which is absolutely mental when you think about it. Same shit happened with WCW and the quality of WWF started to dip when SmackDown became a thing too. You could have 400 wrestlers but there will never be a need for a second A show unless you do a hard brand split

Anyway, things I don't like right now..
>The 6-8 man tags are way too frequent >Tony S brings things down with his commentary and should just be an interviewer
>Tony has fallen into the WWE way of doing things where you just know a feud is leading to anarchy in the arena or Blood and Guts and it gets boring
>still a few too many guys I don't care for at all. I don't want to see Ishii anymore ffs.
>The CC shouldn't be every year. Do it every 2 like an international football tournament and it'll mean more. You already have the Owen
Other than that I enjoy the show most weeks. Things are a lot better than they were at points last year and in '23

>>18739366 (OP)
>AEW is losing its identity
No it has completely lost its identity. It started off and peaked when it was a superindie. Every time you watched Dynamite it was a wrestling variety show with strong style wrestlers, indie nobodies, and flippy fags along with WWE fags like Jericho and Moxley. It was chaotic but there was something for everyone and if you didn't like what you were seeing all you had to do was wait 15 minutes and you'd get something new. Now it's like a WWE clone where the same handful of people are doing the same shit every week and last night's dynamite was a perfect example
>Death Riders vs Darby involves chloroform and a bodybag for like the 5th time in 7 weeks
>So dull the commentary desk doesn't even bother to sell it
>Snoop Dogg's cousin comes out and the crowd doesn't care at all and wrestles a match no one cares about
>Another Mark Briscoe (actually over) "I want to kick someone's ass" promo
>Ends with a shit match with Lance Archer that nobody cares about
>Gets back on track with a Toni (actually over) promo
>Titmouse + Statlander (actually over) segment that is actually reminiscent of the good ol' days of AEW
>Inevitably going to end in some stupid and unnecessary heel turn that will ruin one or both wrestlers
>More fucking Deathriders
>E&C have another brawl with FTR that goes on forever
>Finish with an 8 man tag that feels like classic dynamite
>Ends with someone being taken out on a stretcher (a now weekly occurence)

AEW's whole appeal is that they were doing something different but TK became obsessed with "the business" and tried to copy the "good business" fed despite that being explicitly what its audience tunes in not to see.

>>18739883
>idk what you're talking about, she debuted in the Owne Hart's tournament, got to the semi finals and only lost to Brit Baker back when she was still a big name. Three months after debuting, she was already fighting for the belt and in 6 months she was already a champion, and she was popular with the fans the entire time.
Being booked favorably doesn't mean the crowd gave a shit about her. Everything with the Outcasts was completely forgettable. She just existed in AEW until the Timeless stuff started

The thing that's really starting concern me now is compared to years past, when something unexpectedly hot pops off, they are either completely failing to capitalize on it or doing it way past the hottest of where they could've:

>The Outrunners were by far the most over tag team in 2024 and going into 2025. Instead of beating the Bucks, they got passed over for Private Party who are reportedly out the door when their contract is up, and then got killed dead in shitty match with the Hurt Syndicate. Even if it would've probably been a short reign at best, they completely missed on that one.
>Kris Statlander had arguably the three best women's matches in 2024 back-to-back-to-back with her Street Fight with Willow and her two TBS Title matches with Mercedes to end the year. It has been one year since that Willow match and she is still in the same fucking place: Next in line. If they weren't doing title for title with Toni and Mercedes, then there was no reason she shouldn't have won that belt either at the end of the year or to start this one. It made no difference to the story. You didn't need to put her in some weird angle with the Death Riders to make her credible, she already was. You just had to have the fucking match.
>Ricochet was a dead in the water babyface who got over by being the geekiest heel ever a finally got a PPV win by murdering Mark Briscoe. He was rewarded by being in the same he was last year, the geek gauntlet at All In, and is now teaming with fucking Gates of Agony who have NEVER been over during their time in the company.

They didn't miss when the Acclaimed blew up out of nowhere. They didn't make you wait a X months to a year when Timeless Toni Storm blew up. You didn't send Swerve back to midcard/Trios with the Mogul Embassy after he blew up with Hangman. So why are you doing the reverse now with all these people? The only person that's broken in through in the last year that's clearly going to be around for awhile is Kyle Fletcher.

>>18739366 (OP)
AEW blows

>>18739651
The problem with that question is that you’re not going to immediately go back to 8-900K viewers in 2 months. Maybe on the off occasion if it’s actually must watch television but their biggest issue is consistency. Everything from post revolution to all in was getting somewhere because people were investing into the long form story of someone challenging & dethroning the death riders. It wasn’t even necessarily top tier but it was something that had structure for viewers

>>18739429
This

>>18742654
The AEW brand is destroyed. Even if they started putting on great shows(lol) it wouldn't matter because people are tired of giving AEW yet another chance and they're fucking done with it.

>>18742890
Nah, people still come out for PPVs.Full Gear is going to sell out & it’s in shitty Newark. They just have no interest in Dynamite.

>>18742906
Full Gear is not going to sell out. Neither is Dynasty. And thats already with buy 1 get 1 free promos.

>>18742915
Full gear is a month & a half out & already sold a majority of tickets. It’s going to sell out.

>>18742906
I'm talking about the ratings. Being able to draw decent crowds for PPVs means jack shit when Collision's doing 190k, Dynamite's doing 470k, there's no realistic hope for recovery, WBD's looking at the situation thinking "you know what we should probably just cancel AEW".

>>18742939
You mean you hope with all your might WB is looking at the situation thinking “you know what we should probably just cancel AEW”?