Thread 19191112

>was champion when the business was in the absolute shitter
>ratings blew up when he left
>ratings going down when he came back
Tired of people pretending this shitter is anything other than a spot monkey

>>19191112 (OP)
He's like an elite player who played for a shit team. Very good individually but will never be regarded as one of the GOATs. Cena is the same way.

>>19191126
More like very good but not good enough to carry a team himself. The Russell Westbrook of wrestling

>>19191112 (OP)
He's not. That's why the young bucks idolize him.

>>19191162
The Young Bucks were shoot mentored by Marty Jannetty, this always flies under the radar but it's true

>>19191112 (OP)
The ratings by the time he was champion went down because Normalfags at that time had more TNT access in their houses than USA, Cable TV was a wild west of services, second that WCW fed on Hogan's newfound popularity as Heel Hollywood Hogan and NWO because of Muh Counterculture until they became stale.
Shawn, Austin and Vince fought back using their brains to bring the Smarks, Marks and Normalfags into RAW thanks to Austin and Shawn beating Bret, also said bret is the reason of why the ratings were low, americans didn't want to see a annoying mark cuckadian as the champion.
Emplemon explains this well.

Also, Shawn pretty much passed the torch to Austin, and Austin carried everything in his back til he couldn't anymore due to his neck injure, if Owen didn't fuck his neck because he was a retard who loved to rib other wrestlers while cheating his wife with Sunny Smiles, things would be different and Austin would had lasted even more at WWE.
But God works on mysterious ways, and he retired at the right time, so Shawn would return and continue from where both left.
Also Thank God for Shawn's NXT, he is carrying the branch unlike Road Dogg and Trips the Red and Blue ones.

>>19191271
>Emplemon explains this well
UMMM ACHSUALLY THIS YOUTUBER SAID
Go die nerd

>>19191289
You first pigwheels, also remove the tista toy off your ass.

>>19191249
Why do they idolize complete losers?
Why does tony idolize them?

We ll never know.

>>19191294
>UHHH THE SOCIAL ECONOMIC ASPECTS OF BROADCASTING AND UH
How bout the product was fucking shit and the ratings reflected that?

>>19191126
I don’t like Cena that much and don’t personally regard him as one of the GOATS but a lot of people do. I think for most people he seems to have leapfrogged HBK, Bret, Savage and a handful of others in that regard.

>>19191271
>cable TV was a wild west of services

Shawn on top was in the 90s not the 80s, anon.....

>muh ratings
>muh profits
Why do "wrestling fans" always go on about this incredibly autistic shit? Heel Shawn is the most entertaining wrestler in history and that's the only thing that matters to me when I'm looking to be entertained.

If your takes in discussions about movie quality revolved entirely around ticket sales you'd be considered an autistic fucking faggot retard.

>>19191451
Wrestling fans are smarter and understand what keeps the lights on.

>>19191456
Shit companies producing unwatchable content don't keep my lights on and I don't care about them having their lights on either.

>>19191271
>also said bret is the reason of why the ratings were low
Ratings went down when Bret put over Shawn and was taken off tv to film Lonesome Dove

>>19191456
I want to be entertained, not caring about what the next quarterly earnings look like.

>>19191112 (OP)
I think it's fair to put Shawn in the same category as someone like Mick Foley. Undeniably good at what they did but not someone you can build the whole company around. Mick had it easier with that since nobody ever tried to build their whole company around him. Shawn got hosed pretty hard by being the best guy they had but not actually being good enough to be that guy. He's got some glaring weaknesses, unreliable as fuck, drugged out, legitimately a paranoid schizophrenic, that's all stuff that you can work around when he is just a top of the card guy with Austin and The Rock to really carry the show. As THE guy though it's too much and fucks the whole thing up.

Some really questionable booking dosen't help either. I don't understand how Vince thought a long haired twink in assless chaps, a matching gay leather mailman hat and a see through sequin vest coming out to a song about being a sexy boy is supposed to be your top babyface. I don't know how much creative control Shawn had over this but even if it was his idea someone else should have told him that is retarded.

>>19191626
>I don't understand how Vince thought a long haired twink in assless chaps, a matching gay leather mailman hat and a see through sequin vest coming out to a song about being a sexy boy is supposed to be your top babyface.
Vince has always booked for his own entertainment.

>>19191474
>I just want to have a roof over my head and warm place to sleep, I don't care who owns the place or pays the bills
Squatter logic. There's a reason AEW and NJPW are failing and it's because of "fans" like you who won't pay up.

>>19191825
>Vince has always booked for his own entertainment
Tony khan does the same thing. Why did it work for vince but not him?

>>19191847
It didn't, that's why he was going bankrupt before he finally took the advice to push Austin and Rock instead of Marc Mero and Ahmed Jonson which saved his company. Then he immediately drove them both out and went back to producing shit for the next 20 years.

>>19191867
No one is impressed that you sit around like a fag watching 30 year old Raw episodes, it just makes you sound like a stupid bitch to complain about shit that hasn't been relevant for decades

>>19191881
>"what about this thing"
>get an explanation
>"y-yeah well you're stupid for knowing that"
Intelligent discussion moving really nicely.

>>19191847
Vince spent decades piecing together shows to air first regionally then nationally. He had an intricate knowledge of what works on TV, what works on House shows, what works on PPV events, and everything in-between

Tony Khan doesn't care about house shows because he's never not been able to go to any TV or PPV show he wants, for his entire life. Launching AEW, the goal was never to create new wrestling fans, it was always to peel as many current and lapsed WWE fans as possible.

Vince knew what fans wanted but frequently didn't give it to them because he felt those wrestlers (almost always young guys) would still be around later, while the older guys were under contract now (and making big money now) and needed to be used. If Zack Ryder is so great, why didn't the character last years and years? Why did it crash and burn the moment he left WWE? Why didn't it transfer like AJ Styles or Samoa Joe or Bryan Danielson?

Tony has every idea what fans overall want, but doesn't understand what fans are willing to pay for - and those are, as we're learning now, two entirely different things. If you force 90% of your best matches onto PPV, then the biggest chunk of your fanbase will illegally stream your PPVs. Half AEW's biggest matches should be on TV/MAX to drive subscribers (many of whom will see the goodwill and stop illegally streaming), but the twitter fans BITCH and BITCH and BITCH about not being super-served for PPVs, so it doesn't happen, to the detriment of the company.

Vince booking for Vince turned a regional promotion into a multi-billion dollar global powerhouse. Tony booking for Tony results in an AEW that is only kept alive by endless wheelbarrows of Khan family capital being shoveled into a furnace. It's not strictly about money but one side damn sure understood how to turn money into fans, and the other doesn't.

>>19191898
Marc Mero and Ahmed Johnson each held 1 WWE title, 1 time each, and you're sat here like a faggot implying that both were pushed to the moon and main evented WrestleMania 5 times each while Austin/Rock were working the house show loop

You sound fucking stupid and you know it.

>>19191963
Going from "knowing these things is stupid" straight back to "I know some basic facts that I just managed to ask from AI" makes you sound mentally deranged but I'm not sure if you know it.

>>19191954
very detailed explanation thank you

>>19191451
Movies/Music happen in a vacuum, MLB/NFL/NBA/UFC/wrestling doesn't. I'm sure there were a shitload of you assholes who were highly entertained by the first dozen or so UFC events, and if they stayed that way, UFC wouldn't exist any more, the same way PRIDE doesn't exist because the retards in charge there couldn't clean things up.

One of the first things you learn in any marketing/sales class is, the easiest way to make money is to sell an existing product to existing customers. The quickest way to lose money is to insist on selling new products to new customers. So pray tell, which is WWE is doing when they push 35-45+ year olds with decades of experience? Which is AEW doing when they insist on 20 minute TV matches with mid-20s CMLL/NJPW rejects?

You are hastening the irrelevancy of the wrestling you prefer by insisting it stays 90% of what you enjoy and quibbling over the 10%, if that, that caters to casuals and lapsed fans. AEW needs a split closer to 60/40 to have any hope of growing, but you bitch every time it moves a single percentage point in that direction.

>>19192013
If you're so retarded you need to ask AI for help, because you don't know how to Google search a few names and click a few times, then you're beyond help. I don't think you actually believe that though, I think you're just a bitch ass little faggot and constantly get yourself into arguments you can't win, so you go the fag route instead and play bitch ass games like you're doing right now.

Can anyone explain to me how this is supposed to be insulting to the fan?

>>19191474
Jesus, how many times must this be covered?
Nobody talks about that because it's purely subjective. One guy goes
>i am entertained by x
someone else goes
>i am entertained by y
nothing is proven or established, it's just endless infinite one person's tastes against another.
Ratings are concrete and immutable. That's why they get brought up. Wishy washy talk of what made you feel all warm and fuzzy is pointless.

>>19192085
>>19192100
Back in these days a homosexual drug addict saying he wanted to suck your dick was the kind of shit that would get someone killed

>>19191112 (OP)
was it bret or shawn that was the top guy/face of the company during the early-mid 90s?

>>19193384
It was like Rock and Austin except it drew way less money and they had a way shittier main event scene to work around

>>19193390
not really what i'm asking i don't care how much money the company made. i mean between the two of them which was considered the top guy? just curious

>>19191112 (OP)
He was also only really a star because he ate Vince McMahon's asshole for it.

>>19191126
so your point is that they are then the goats since they both had shitters around them

>>19193408
He literally answered your question retard

>>19193813
no he didn't wtf

Shawn was an expert story teller in the ring and a great opponent for guys like Bret, Taker, Nash, etc. Particularly in the post-roids era he made the top guys look bigger than they were. Not overrated, but probably wouldn't have had lead the brand outside of his era

>>19191249
why haven't the Bucks helped Marty out with a job?

Go to bed Bret

>>19191373
I agree that Cena is overrated as hell. Poorly booked, five moves of doom, cartoonish promo, always the boring face. He got way more shit during his runs than people seem to remember. People (particularly adults) were fed up with Cena for at least half of his full-time career.

>>19191271
>shawncel cope session
grim

>>19191112 (OP)
He's always been overrated really. The fact a generation of indy shitters were so influenced by him doesn't help.

It's ironic how Shawn called Triple H midcarder for life but Paul ended up being a better draw than him.

>>19195941
When was Pauletty ever a bigger draw than Shawn? I'm not even defending HBK here, just saying Paul was never a draw to begin with.