Thread 82957830

Neoliberal here. I understand that politics is just vibes now given all the retarded shit happening but genuinely
>Rent freezes
Its amazing how people keep falling for this retarded shit. NO MAINSTREAM ECONOMICS SCHOLAR IS CHEERING ON RENT FEEZES. Literally this policy has failed everytime it has been implemented but people gobble it up because its populist slop. So retarded

Can you complain more about the child rapist commander-in-chief destroying our economy in office instead of a guy who isn't even mayor yet?
Thanks, neoliberal.

>>82957830 (OP)
I'm so happy to see a fellow neolib here. Free trade, open borders, and a taco truck on every corner. Rent freeze is retarded and everyone who wants it is fucking stupid.

>>82957830 (OP)
The only country with decent economies right now is Argaytina and no, it's not because Milei is ancap

>>82957850
Dont look at me, I voted. You and your leftist buddies are the reason we lost because YOU didnt vote :/

>>82957857
What is your evidence the vanishingly small number of leftists didn't vote for Kamala? I voted for her. Her radical neoliberalism was tried and flopped spectacularly.

>>82957853
Based economics understander

>>82957855
Free market economics just works.

>>82957862
I dont need evidence since politics is just vibes now. My vibes say Everyone who supports the DSA and their retarded ideas is at fault for that election

>>82957862
>Her radical neoliberalism
She was a lot of things but neoliberal she wasn't

>>82957879
Nice meme. Also, like Kamala Harris, you should've run a better candidate if you didn't want the populist to win. You don't wait until after he demolishes you then just prop up the granny-killer.

>>82957886
In what world was she not neoliberal?

>>82957895
>industrial policy
>raise the minimum wage
>tougher border security
Pretty sure she wasn't anti-tariff either. Just because you hate something doesn't make it neoliberal. Biden wasn't a neolib either just in case you think he was.

>>82957886
>>82957916
>Actually our ideology that's just the ideology of the people in power isn't ACTUALLY what those people believe in!
You're just trying to get converts to an ideology that has zero contrarianist value to it

>>82957927
We haven't had a neolib in office in a long time. I have no idea what you're trying to say right now.

>>82957830 (OP)
The one New Yorker I know is a Puerto Rican spic communist that practically treats Mamdani like he's God

>>82957830 (OP)
Rent freezes don't work guys!
>refuses to elaborate
Alright buddy

neoliberals and neocons destroyed the country, they outsourced the factories to china and let in millions of immigrants, they crashed the economy and bailed out the banks. they started multiple endless wars, they expanded the surveillance state, young people are living with their parents, they cant afford to buy a house or have kids, elderly people are worked to death, the suicide rate is high.

So you see it across the west. people are rejecting neoliberals and neocons and searching for alternatives, wheater it be populist trumpian nationalism, or democratic socialism

>>82957960
It's a basic fact this took like 5 seconds to find and every paper on the subject is virtually the same unless it was some pinko anthropology department trying to play economist
https://www.nber.org/papers/w24181

>>82957916
>"industrial policy", subsidies for big firms
>"$15 min wage", never raised it
>pro-business "pragmatic capitalist" branding
>corporate donors out of the ass
>focus on tax credits for the rich (middle class)
>defended private health insurance, dropped Medicare for All, public option, etc.
>zero (0) reform after BLM, literally a pro-police prosecutor
>ultra pro-Israel zionist
Maybe it doesn't fit r/neoliberal's exact standards, but the democrats going full centrism to lose hard is going to play on repeat when you let it.

>>82958008
Neoliberalism isn't a centrist ideology and most of the things that modern neoliberals want are not the policy positions the democratic party takes. You just keep equating normie dems with neoliberals but that's not the case and r/nl is largely normie dems at this point.

>>82958030
Who is neoliberal aside from Bill Clinton?

>>82958030
nta but democrats are neoliberals, they have been since clinton, and the british parties have been since tony blair.

You have to be a belligerent retard to not realize this

>>82958035
His wife. Neoliberals just don't exist in modern politics, it's a boogieman at this point that the right and left harp on about.

>>82958046
Definitions change as the times change. Maybe get a more attractive label for your failed cause.

>>82958046
neoliberlism works until its 2008 and you have to bail out the banks

>>82958038
>but democrats are neoliberals
The party that defends tariffs every chance they get, hasn't met a union they don't want to suck off, would prefer expanding the welfare state to just implementing the negative income tax, refuses to neuter government power? They aren't neolibs. Neoliberals are just libertarians that believe in market failure and don't go nazi as soon as they get in power.
>>82958059
It was the republicans that did one. Neoliberalism allows for regulations see above
>>82958057
I think we call ourselves New Liberals now but that's stupid

>>82957853
>Free trade, open borders, and a taco truck on every corner.
Howdy-do fellow redditor! Go back.

>>82958069
So you hate nu-Democrats and you want them to be Clinton-like instead?

>>82958088
Unfortunately 4chan is my liberal utopia so I'll stay here. Freedom of movement, freedom of speech, freedom of association. So nice. I wish the whole internet was like this.
>>82958099
Hate is too strong of a word, I disagree with them. Even Clinton is not quite what I want. What I really want is zoning reform and by-right construction but that can't be done federally. Housing is the biggest issue affecting us today, it needs to be fixed ASAP.

>>82957830 (OP)
It'd be really funny if he actually managed to implement his retarded policies. I'd love to see his "publicly owned grocery stores" in action lmao. Shit would crash and burn so hard, but instead, he'll probably realize how stupid his ideas are the instant he takes 1 or 2 steps to put them into practice, and leftists will whine that he didn't keep his promises and keep telling themselves that these dumb ideas are totally great they just haven't been implemented properly yet!

>>82957830 (OP)
It's for new york mayor, nothing he runs on matters as it won't even be brought up once he wins. It's a position for siphoning money behind closed doors, same as any government role in Chicago.

>>82957830 (OP)
i hope he wins so it can further expose the socialist muslims for what they are
id prefer to be wrong but i think we all know what is going to happen

>>82957853
>open borders
>meme trade
roomtemp iq ape

Econ is a joke field, it's "do whatever is good for the super-rich" presented as if there's some kind of intellectual rigor behind it
Rent freezes work (they keep people in their homes) but they defy the holy Free Market, so we're supposed to believe they're bad - won't someone think of the real estate industry? :(
>but they don't increase housing stock!
that's not the goal of the policy, and one could certainly use other levers to increase housing stock, but economists seethe at constructing social housing too, they seethe at taxing landlords and rich people to pay for anything that helps everyone else, they just hate poor people and want you to be homeless
Neoliberalism is a great answer to the question "what if I was both cruel AND retarded"?

>>82958119
Why do you guys not care about protecting industry and demographics? If America becomes a minority white country, that makes the country fundamentally less stable. If America can't produce anything that makes the country fundamentally unsafe, dependent on other potentially hostile nations.

>>82958233
That's not what the field is like at all. Have you even read an econ paper before or do you think Fox Business is an economics journal?

>>82958239
>Why do you guys not care about protecting industry and demographics?
The best way to protect industry is to force it to compete. Protectionism only cripples industries. Look at the American shipbuilding industry, it's the most anemic shit on the planet. Same with our steel and auto industries. We cannot compete globally because we've imposed protectionist policies for so long.
I don't care about demographics at all. If the US was 100% black it would not bother me. We will never see eye to eye on demographics so it's not even useful to discuss it.

>>82958247
>Protected industries are weak
Isn't this mostly because American labor is so pricey? To fix this, you'd need to lower wages, but you'd have to expect that to cause outrage.
>I don't care about demographics
I don't either, but most groups on the planet and in America do. Tribalism is rarely something people get to opt out of.

Now this might strike some readers as harsh, but I believe everyone involved in this story should die

>>82958268
>Isn't this mostly because American labor is so pricey?
No. Protectionism shifts the pressures on industry so they aren't maximizing for international competition any more. It tends to make them consolidate and focus on returning cash flows to shareholders over investing in their processes. Pricey labor just encourages capital substitution which in the long run should lower production costs.
>most groups on the planet and in America do
I find that really sad but yes, pragmatically we need to keep immigration at such a level that those people don't get triggered. Most of the time people complaining about immigrants are actually complaining about high housing prices or low job availability though.

>>82958240
It's true of every economist that gets quoted or cited by politicians, and it remains true regardless of how disastrous the results of their management end up for 99% of the population
Economics without Marx (ala US econ) is like evolution without Darwin or physics without Einstein. It's just disastrously, repeatedly at odds with reality (but why correct? We have models!)

>>82958296
>It's true of every economist that gets quoted or cited by politicians
Anon, politicians are cherrypicking things to support their positions. That's not representative of the field. The actual things economists agree on are rarely implemented as policy.
>Marx
He wasn't empirical at all. Economics now is dominated by econometrics. Marxian thought is to economics as alchemy is to chemistry.

Why are politicians allergic to relaxing zoning laws and just building more housing?

>>82958287
Maybe protectionism does make companies less competitive, but since you can only replace so many people with machinery, doesn't that mean American industries are still at a fundamental disadvantage?

>>82958323
Not at all. Pretty much any labor can be replaced it's just that most labor is not expensive enough to want to replace it. Any one country can't be fully self-sufficient anyway. So maybe the US makes fewer textiles but more automobiles, that's not a problem really. You just export the cars and import textiles and no one really suffers from that. If American labor were somehow so expensive that removing all protectionism gutted the entire American economy, the price of American labor would drop and the industry would come back. The only situation where protectionism makes sense to me is for keeping certain factories open for national security, but that gets abused constantly for things that have nothing to do with nat sec.

>>82957895
Expanding welfare and DEI.

>>82958059
>neoliberlism works until its 2008 and you have to bail out the banks
How is covertly rating BBB mortages as AAA MBS neoliberalism? It goes against basics of liberal economic theory of quality economic information been basis of economic agents actions and effecient markets.
Putting stamp "gold" on shit isn't "liberal economy" it's a fraud.

I fight for the landlords

>>82959168
>try to find room to rent
>nobody is offering

>>82959188
Yeah retard ppl were famously homeless in the Soviet Union literally dumbest post you could have made

>>82959188
He has plans to build 200k more units though

>>82958309
Because they have? Literally this month in California. But more importantly, more units lowers the value of boomers' networth, they're a huge voting block, etc. Day of the pillow can't come any sooner.

>>82959288
In USSR housing standart in Moscow (and Leningrad) was 55 square feet of rooms area per resident for housing expansion. So if you had 5 people family living in two rooms 330 square feet Khrushchevka commieblock you were supposed to live like that forever.

There is even language difference between Soveit/Russian and American culture reflecting that.
"Two bedrooms appartment". It's uncomprehesible for Russian ear. All rooms were bedrooms under communism. 2-3 people were sleeping in a same room, usually on convertible sofas that can be folded and clear space for the day. Personal bedroom with an actual bed was exalted bourgeois luxury.
Remember boys, "you will live in thee pod" this is what commies are cooking for you when they say "free appartments".

>>82957855
>Just one more hit bro

>>82957830 (OP)
>Neoliberal here
How do you square this with the clear and obvious fact that the neoliberal order is collapsing and retreating?

>>82957982
Britain had rent controls until 1988. They worked well. Fuck your jewish textbooks

>>82958119
>housing is the biggest issue
>anyway let us increase the demand for housing
Neoliberal brainrot

>>82957830 (OP)
As a plumber, I deal with lots of landlords with 30 year old boilers falling apart and not enough money to replace them. I can't imagine how having a bunch of tenants paying bargain rent rates from a decade ago are going to fund the necessary plumbing work to make the building habitable.

Maybe the government needs to lower property tax on occupied residences. Where I live the rent goes up every year because the property tax goes up every year. Landlords are not making great margins, and they pass tax increases onto their tenants.

>>82960200
Poor, poor landlords

Fuck the rich, I'll stay neeting in my rent frozen apartment ty. Stay mad, I'm sure you can afford to be fine if you're so educated and econ pilled.

>>82960241
You're not screwing the rich doebeit. All that rent control does it to discourage development and constrain supply so that there are even less places to rent now. It's literally just renters enjoying rent control screwing over other renters.

>>82960436
>landlords make less money
>rich people who can afford rent pay more
ok? also >>82959305

>>82959809
Post-war British socialism was a disaster that resulted in inflation, stagnation and rolling blackouts mate. Imagine unironically looking at the wreck caused by the the Town and Country Planning Act 1947 and pretending shit was "working well".

>>82957830 (OP)
>Literally this policy has failed everytime it has been implemented
Except in 2020-2021 for some reason https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_eviction_moratoriums_in_the_United_States

The laws of physics and economics simply changed during that timeframe we can't figure out why

>>82959458
New York is $90/sqft
So a 55sqft 'Soviet style' apartment would be $4,950/month

>>82960447
>landlords make less money
...and immediately correct by investing into something more profitable than real estate. Wowza you made someone spend their millions in stocks rather than building more houses, genius. Meanwhile regular people get shafted far more impactfully as the market gets even more distorted.
>He has plans to build 200k more units
While discouraging investment into expanding housing supply AKA now you have to pay taxes to try to compensate for self-inflicted damage. OP is right BTW, rent control has a 100% track record of failure and is one of the dumbest policies that exist.

>>82957830 (OP)
>OH MY HECKIN' SCIENCE DON'T YOU CHUDDIES REALISE THAT IF YOU DON'T REWARD RENT-SEEKING BEHAVIOUR LE HECKIN' RULING CLASS WILL JUST EXPLOIT YOU MORE!!!
brilliant stuff from the retarded bootlickers who studied the retarded bootlicking discipline in college

>>82960501
The eviction moratorium was terrible policy and directly contributed to the rapid worsening of the housing market post-COVID.

>>82960514
And why should I believe that to be the case?

>>82960506
Rent control is literal rent-seeking behavior. A specific group of people, the ones who currently rent properties that are being controlled, are screwing over would-be renters who have to deal with the massive damage this policy directly causes to the housing market.

>>82960517
Because it pushed landlords to sell rather than rent since they couldn't collect rent they were owed, further concentrating real estate ownership into fewer hands and discouraging investment into new rentals.

>>82960518
So if you already are a renter, it literally has no adverse impact?
Please tell me how it would egatively impact me in the next ten years, keep in mind I don't give a shit about other people.

>>82960227
I don't think the landlords are as concerned as the tenants who live in these places and can't get heat in the winter because the boiler is older than they are. I was over at a place yesterday and my company decided not to service a boiler unless they ordered a replacement, because there's so much wrong with it, we don't want to be on the hook for the endless secundae.

>>82960503
It only affects rent-stabilized apartments which are <1/3rd of the people there. Show evidence that'd affect all real estate in NYC.

>>82960545
The tenant would obviously sue in that case. In almost every U.S. state, landlords are legally required to provide heat/safe living conditions.

>>82960569
How long do the courts take to get the tenant relief? In the meantime, the LLC that owns the building puts it up for sale, stops renewing leases, goes into bankruptcy, and suddenly multiple tenant households are looking for new apartments at a higher rent

>>82960592
So simply have more legal protections for tenants

>>82960592
I guess if I were the landlord though, I'd bring a bunch of electric space heaters over to keep the tenant happy, and hope there's money next year for a new boiler.

>>82957830 (OP)
Not reading all that, keep coping.

>>82960518
fellas, does "rent seeking behaviour" mean renters seeking lower rents?

>>82957830 (OP)
>Americans dont get econ
Half the country and 99% of this website voted for a child rapist who promised to raise prices in order to fix inflation, I think we know that little guy. Maybe run a better guy next time who knows how to lie more convincingly.