Thread 16671094

Anyone up for a serious discussion about how hopeless and depressing it feels to be in academia (as compared to industry)? Why are we doing this to ourselves?

I left my highly paid IT job so that I could do grad school in linguistics. I feel like a lot of the professors are frauds. There is no respect for original thought. Coursework is rote and overwhelming. Lectures are subpar.

I presented my original research during the colloquium, and people were literally yawning. I think no one actually cares about you unless you're already some bigshot.

>>16671094 (OP)
um, look at how literally every single institution is decaying. are you really that surprised? how did you ever end up illusioned?

>>16671094 (OP)
>I feel like a lot of the professors are frauds
Most of them have never did a single scientific discovery and never will. The system is such that they can only read lectures and do the admenistrative tasks. When they say that academia was established by the catholic church, they do not lie. It also seems that they still control it to this day, and probably plan on keeping on. So at this point you do not reform academia, you build a waaay better alternative to it. Free market rulez, yet since the state supports academia and not independent institutions, that market is not actually free.
> no one actually cares about you unless you're already some bigshot
I am a bigshot, yet being unaffiliated it is quite a quest to bring my findings through. I read that it took Mendel twenty years to prove that his findings are not nonsense. Mendeleev got famous almost immediately, yet for twenty years before him other people were trying to prove that the periodic nature of the elements is not some numerologic apophenia.

I have no idea about linguistics or liberal arts, but my grad school experience was awesome. I did my PhD in chemistry. I loved my PI, I loved my committee, I loved my research, I loved my classes, I loved the lab and my direct lab mates. Now I just work synthesizing small molecules, basically just make shit all day and get paid great

>>16671292
Obvious larp, also lmao considering you think linguistics is "liberal arts"

>>16671138
>When they say that academia was established by the catholic church, they do not lie.
kek, I remember during coof season they were making threads about how """the le soientists""" were persecuting "religions" by "not letting them go to church" or something.*
>*The medical industry has a disproportionately high ratio of religious followers
>*Many states have policies where a "doctor's note" isn't a valid reason for not getting vaccinated.^*
>^*But they "conveniently" allow for "religious exemptions"
I can't remember the books, but I stumbled upon a few books about the history of medicine, and they seemed to claim that the history of vaccines were introduced to the British Aristocracy(who then went on to promote it to the commoners) by some brilliant minds from France, Spain, and I want to say Turkey...
Im admittedly not very familiar of the religious world and their geographic followings, but do those places have any Catholic sects?

>study linguistics
i thought people only did that so they can appear smart to nerdy girls

>>16671377
Linguistics is closely linked to computer science and almost everyone who I know studies it has a CS background and if they don't end up in academia they work in NLP jobs
>>16671359

Chemistry is way more pseudo intellectual and useless in the real world than linguistics. Like wtf do you even do with that degree? Work in a drugstore?

>>16671094 (OP)
It’s on rails. Nobody cares because the government funding keeps flowing. I hope Trump creates enough of a ruckus that universities get gutted and take their shit seriously. But realistically the admin will continue mindlessly raking in the money while tuitions spike up and PhD students get treated even worse than they are today.

>>16671094 (OP)
>I left my highly paid IT job so that I could do grad school in linguistics.
You could have studied your passion of Edo period haikus in Kyoto or something...
>people were literally yawning
A bunch of charlatan jackasses didnt like being shown how ignorant and full of shit they are?

>>16671138
>numerologic apophenia
It is. Thats why people can predict a island of stability....Jesus Christ, you are NOT a "bigshot".

Post your field and describe your thesis, lets discuss your career's future.

>>16671502
God, this board is full of redditbrained retards. Is there anyone here who's actually in academia, or only greasy internet intellectuals like this guy who bring other people down on online forums? I can imagine some fatty typing this shit from his basement

>>16671535
>replies to a namefag
>accuses him of retardation
You’re the one too retarded to get that they’re all like this, anon.

>>16671535
>redditbrained retards
BTFO'd that lying jackass about being a "big shot" Chemist?! WHAT IS YOUR PHD IN? I will call you out too!
>anyone here who's actually in academia
Youre surrounded by people LARPing they are....AND YOU BELIEVE THEM...thats how shit of a scientist you are. You get "tricked" by basement dwelling societal rejects as your peers! Youre that fucking remedial!
>I can imagine some fatty typing this shit from his basement
THATS HOW SHIT OF A SCIENTIST YOU ARE!

100% OPPOSITE OF REALITY BAD....

>>16671536
>they’re all like this
What was your thesis on, Anon...I want to discuss your career's future.

t.Careerologist (PhD)

>>16671094 (OP)
>go to good goy factory
>surprised that it is, in fact, a good goy factory

Did you join your grad school union? Its a good time.

I think we stay bc we love the research

>>16671094 (OP)
I'm mostly in it for the students - I had a lot of really exceptional profs in undergrad and grad; the kind that would go the extra mile, stay after hours to go over a problem with you, tell hard truths but also offer genuinely good advice and mentorship, and I know from my own personal experience what a huge difference people like that can make. I teach to pay that forward. Research is just the cherry on top.

There are parts of it that suck: It's a pretty thankless job, for the most part, and administrative work is a massive pain in the ass, but you stick with it for the positive interactions with students and community members and the occasional research project.

>>16671094 (OP)
You need to get to a certain level for original thought to be interesting. If you just sit in a room all day coming up with research ideas, you'd likely come up with trash most of the time.

>I presented my original research during the colloquium
You're just a student, still. Nobody cares.

>I think no one actually cares about you unless you're already some bigshot.
Pretty much. You either have to be someone or do something interesting. You can't be someone without the latter and you can't do something interesting without knowing what's interesting.

>>16671547
This guy posts excessively on /fa/ accusing everyone of being a narcissist btw. Very disruptive and rude poster.

>>16671094 (OP)
>I presented my original research during the colloquium, and people were literally yawning.
Ah, you’re one of those. That explains a lot.

>>16671094 (OP)
Yes, academia thinks it does useful things while all it really does is built shrines to nerds that hurt themselves with complicated thoughts. Math is literally Jackass of the mind; Russell's "a set that contains all set that don't contain themselves" is literally the same as Johnny Knoxville stapling his own balls to his own legs, and Gödel's incompleteness is isomorphic to Bam's collapse, Vito is basically Cantor, and Steve-o is Grothendieck. Phil is Perelman.

>>16673498
based

>>16673135
>You're just a student, still. Nobody cares.
>Pretty much. You either have to be someone or do something interesting.
I think that's what OP is complaining about.
>If you just sit in a room all day coming up with research ideas, you'd likely come up with trash most of the time.
What are your non trash ideas?

>>16674795
>I think that's what OP is complaining about.
OP should learn to walk before he signs up for a marathon.

>>16674908
kek you're part of the problem, anon

>>16674795
>What are your non trash ideas?
You can find them published in relevant high impact journals.

>>16674957
Ah, yes, the brilliant non-trash idea like
>dark matter N=8 supersymmetric axions with non-abelian solitons in AdS via Higgs portal U(1)???
sounds totally original and not some trend-chasing garbage done for the sake of prolonging the author's grant funding.

>>16674963
Why are you now inventing a backstory for me? I certainly didn't know I was a physicist. I am glad you are clearing that up for me.

>dark matter N=8 supersymmetric axions with non-abelian solitons in AdS via Higgs portal U(1)???
You try getting that shit published. Obscure jargon piles are hard to make happen, even in dogshit journals.
And ultimately, it doesn't matter how good my idea is as long as someone pays me to pursue it.

>>16674979
>You try getting that shit published.
I don't have to. This is 90% of articles in theoretical particle physics today. You are either arguing in bad faith or don't know how academia works day-to-day.

>>16675160
>I don't have to.
So, what are you to get published?

>theoretical particle physics
A field nobody gives a shit about? Who cares? It's a charity anyway.

>don't know how academia works day-to-day.
How many corresponding author publications do you have?

>>16675177
The cope starts pouring in.

>>16675179
what cope, you have said nothing so far.
How many corresponding author publications do you have?

>>16675180
I can have a zillion publications with ten thousand citations each. Or I can have no publications. None of this is relevant to the conversation we're having, which is about academia as a whole, not me.

>>16675182
If you talk about knowing the day to day, then I expect you to participate in it. How many corresponding authors do you have? It's a simple question to verify that you know about the day to day business in academia.
How can you talk about the state of academia, if you don't know what it is like?

>>16675185
Yes, I do participate in it. But what do you actually gain from me telling you the details of my academic career on an anonymous Fijian cockfighting website? Not much. So cut the bullshit with your tough guy act and engage with my posts in good faith. Or don't respond at all.

>>16675192
You haven't made a statement.
The extent of your statements has been "I think "dark matter N=8 supersymmetric axions with non-abelian solitons in AdS via Higgs portal U(1)???" is a bad title for a paper".
Which, sure, I guess. If you think so. I don't do theoretical particle physics, it might be a bad title it might be a good one, I dunno.

>>16675203
No, that wasn’t my point. Congratulations, you played yourself. The content of such papers is the problem. It’s always about chasing trends. These papers get forgotten in two years max. And you have to chase trends or else you risk your funding. This results in 90% of journal articles being filler trash that nobody reads because everyone knows the true purpose behind such publications. Modern academia is a rat race just like everywhere else.

>>16674927
It's pretty common sense, anon. Like any discipline, research is a learning process; your basic knowledge of a subject needs to be tempered and expanded by practical experience and the wisdom that comes with it. I've seen a lot of overconfident students come in thinking they've got nothing to learn from anybody, talking down to every student, staff, and faculty member they come across, and it always ends badly.

>>16675337
That anon indeed sounds like a pompous douche, but that doesn't mean one should automatically disregard an opinion just because it comes from a student. Things like "practical experience" and "the wisdom" are essentially appeals to authority and as such are inherently unscientific.

>>16675359
Any model of peership should qualify under at least one definition of "practical" unless your math ends up inconsistent with a functionally reasonable inclusion of the degenerate peer#group

>>16675217
>The content of such papers is the problem.
I wouldn't know. I don't read theoretical particle physics, as I have said repeatedly.

>This results in 90% of journal articles being filler trash that nobody reads
I think the people who worked hard on these publications would object to you calling them "filler trash". And who knows, maybe the work will come up again in the future. How do you know? Maybe someone down the line is interested in "dark matter N=8 supersymmetric axions with non-abelian solitons in AdS via Higgs portal U(1)???".
Every publication has a lot of work put into it, even the shitty ones.
You have never published anything, have you?

>Modern academia is a rat race just like everywhere else.
You are saying this as if this wasn't something everyone knows, especially people at the PI level. Of course you need to get nice papers and you need to do so regularly, if you want to win grants. It's just how the game is played.

>>16675359
>that doesn't mean one should automatically disregard an opinion just because it comes from a student.
No, but it will just be bad, in nearly every case. Because the student is not aware of the state of the art. The student doesn't know what people have already done, what's easy and what's hard, what people are interested in and what they aren't. Being an "idea guy" in an academic setting is extremely difficult, especially if you are chasing high impact journals.
Students simply don't have the subject matter expertise to judge whether their opinions are worthwhile or not. It sounds harsh, but credentialism exists for a reason.

>>16675359
Automatically disregard? No, of course not. But it should make you more skeptical and critical of it. Without experience it becomes difficult to recognize what might otherwise be obvious flaws in an argument or model or why an experiment might not be practical or possible; a lack of experience can even make something as basic as being open to criticism of an idea or argument difficult or impossible for a student.

>>16675473
>dude they worked so haaaard it means it's a good paper
No. They know they worked hard to continue being part of that rat race. But very little of that hard work in the day-to-day proceedings of faculty results in fruitful research.
>>16675475
That we agree on, sure.

>>16675608
How many publications have you contributed towards?
Remember, this is the internet, you could just lie.
Because to me, it sounds like that number is zero.

>>16675678
Good for you, my jeet friend. Trust the experts, worship authority, and stroke your ego. I don’t particularly care.

>>16675696
I accept your concession.

>>16671094 (OP)
>>I left my highly paid IT job so that I could do grad school in linguistics.
>linguistics
I was about to talk seriously about how everyone else is complaining about academia, rightly so. But this is bullshit, why complain when you knew what you were getting into?

Math, Physics and CS grads at least believe they do something relevant.

>>16671094 (OP)
Job market is dead in my cunt

>>16671094 (OP)
>Anyone up for a serious discussion about how hopeless and depressing it feels to be in academia
Stop interacting with admin. Dump all the paperwork on a grad slave.

It is really that simple.

>>16671094 (OP)
Science and leftism has only one purpose: to rot your brain and distract white men from the invading hordes.

>>16678790
as a legit leftist I'm beyond tired of your kind of NPCs, no leftism is not about importing the whole third world into your country, that's zionism, I recommend you read a bit more about what really is being "right wing", you might get a surprise on who promoted those inmigrations to get cheap labor

>>16678822
Leftism comes from those who rejected divine monarchy and who voted for the death of the king of France, Louis XVI. In the name of progress, history of every nation has to be wiped clean in order to create globalism and eventually wokism and LGBT degeneracy, tower of Babel, Sodom and Gomorrah.

Being right wing means upholding tradition, nationalism, christianity, family, natural hierarchy and order, defending something that is solid and eternal, Jesus Christ.

>>16673158
>accusing everyone of being a narcissist btw
Wonderful projection on his part.

Bump

>>16675678
>how big is your science penis?

>>16671094 (OP)
My brief opinion apropos of: >>16681982
Summarized even further?: >>16681966

>>16681410
No, it's "do you have one at all?"

>>16671094 (OP)
This world would be better off without universities and college.
Most communists, leftists and intellectuals were raised and trained via those propaganda facilities.

>>16671094 (OP)
Throughout history, truly valuable research has been produced by few people.
Nowadays universities are just milling out PhD degrees like there is no tomorrow. It doesn't mean anything anymore.
Not to say your research is necessarily worthless (though it probably is), just that there is too much shit to wade through before you find anything vaguely interesting and/or useful.

Also, why linguistics and what's the point of it?

>>16671328
>a or b
>you must think a = b
Well you think like a lib arts major, that's for sure

>>16671094 (OP)
I left my IT job to study Physics. I did my PhD and then went into industry (defence company).
I feel like Academia is alright, but frankly it is a thankless job, with shit pay and its full of egotistical cretins.

>>16674957
>You can find them published in relevant high impact journals.
No, I mean, what are YOUR non trash ideas?

>>16671094 (OP)
Half of my grad school professors could barely speak English and every single module had ESG/DEI/whatever shit embedded into the materials and coursework.

>I left my highly paid IT job so that I could do grad school in linguistics.
Dumbest shit ever. Killing career for stupid school.

>>16671138
>they say that academia was established by the Catholic Church
>It also seems that they still control it to this day
Yeah, the Catholic Church . . .

Really, though, you know where you are. There is no way it’s the Catholic Church pulling the strings in academia. Who has a stranglehold on theoretical physics and many other majors? Tip: It sure as hell isn’t the Catholic Church.

>>16685777
Like I said, you can find works based on MY ideas published.

>>16673135
>You're just a student, still. Nobody cares.

That's the attitude of someone who's ego is larger than his intellect.

You're clearly headed nowhere.

>>16675473
>student doesn't know what people have already done, what's easy and what's hard, what people are interested in and what they aren't.
isn't it your job, as a PI or an educator, to create a culture that cultivates good research taste? if anon had lectures & coursework that surveyed the state of the art maybe they wouldnt be so retarded & put crowds to sleep with their 'original thoughts'.

>>16686131
>That's the attitude of someone who's ego is larger than his intellect.
But it's the truth. Nobody cares, until you have passed a certain threshold. Everything beneath that is undergrad whining.

>>16686313
Academia is full of people who have not actually achieved much.

If they could see past their egos, they'd realize that a helping a student with a good idea was their last shot at having their name attached to something meaningful.

>>16686314
>helping a student with a good idea
And risk losing his position? Fat chance, get your own tenure somewhere else.

https://youtu.be/JOOYrePiKJw

>>16686314
>helping a student with a good idea
The problem is that the idea is usually either bad or horribly out of scope.

People who have not even completed a single research project themselves simply lack the ability to figure out how good an idea really is, how long it will take and how easy or difficult it is.
Many things that look easy at first are not, many things that sound interesting at first are not and one week is a lot less time than it seems.

>>16686314
>If they could see past their egos
You heard's the man. You ain't gunna amount to nothin', kid...now scram!

Anons do you think I have what it takes to make it into academia? I just finished high school with a bronze medal at the IMO, but it was clearly my limit. Could I actually do research or am I too much of a midwit? I get a bit discouraged when I hear about these mathematicians with perfect score gold medals.

>>16671094 (OP)
lol yeah I also quit my dev job to study some more and am really regretting it
university staff treat students like dirt when you have questions to find something in their jungle of websites
if at my job last year some system didn't work at a client I would get help but at this uni everyone just says "figure it out"

>>16686323
>The problem is that the idea is usually either bad or horribly out of scope.

That's cope to keep up your attitude of, 'I will only take seriously someone with a position, regardless of what they actually did to earn it.'

>>16686541
Pre-filtering ideas is essential, this is just one filter that works.

>>16671094 (OP)
As long as you don't do meme shit like pure math or linguistics, PhD should be a blast. You're doing a degree meant for rich people who don't need to work.

>>16686701
>this is just one filter that works.

Which is why we have a replication crises and academia is losing respect every day.

You're a retard only capable of doubling down on your basic animal instinct.

>>16671094 (OP)
Average iq is 93 and dropping, and over 80% of college students cheat to get to where they are. Don't be surprised, become an officer in the military or find work in industry.

>>16671535
Why are you replying to a namefag? You should know better than engaging with named schizos.

>>16686737
>Which is why we have a replication crises and academia is losing respect every day.
This is a complete non-sequitur. How does this relate to prefiltering shitty project ideas?

>>16671094 (OP)
Is a tough field improve your histrionism

>>16686959
>This is a complete non-sequitur.
"I believe I can disprove Darwinian Evolution Theory, check it out." - Dennis Noble
>>16686874
>schizos
[throws it in the trash without looking at it]
"Get outta here, kid, you's got no place among us tenured princes." -Anonymous Peer Reviewer
>>16686959
>How does this relate to prefiltering shitty project ideas?
Dont worry about it...

>>16686973
>"I believe I can disprove Darwinian Evolution Theory, check it out." - Dennis Noble
If people have ideas about things they don't understand, then it's reasonable to consider them nonsense.

>>16686975
>If people have ideas about things they don't understand
[tossed out without a single thought, just animalistic inpulse for self servicing confirmation]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Noble
>>16686737
>doubling down on your basic animal instinct.
Its all so tiresome...

>>16686959
>This is a complete non-sequitur.

Only because you are dumber than a wild animal.

>prefiltering shitty project ideas?

The fact you are only filtering competitors and trying to maintain a hierarchy of dunces. It's begging the question, if you don't even look at the ideas, how can you say they are shitty? Answer: it doesn't matter, you just want to feel superior to strangers and don't actually care about science.

Look at how you avoid the fact you don't actually care what someone accomplishes, only titles without regard to how they got them. You're a social parasite, incapable of real thought beyond handicapping people with actual talent.

>>16686981
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Noble

Sorry, the midwits that call themselves scientists today cannot handle that level of complex thought.

>>16687040
>Sorry
Dont apologize for demons.

https://youtu.be/aAoOwfbdPIg

>>16687133
LMFAO BLOWN THE FUCK OUT!

This is why academia is a living joke, literal cultist zombies LARPing what the ensouled and living do.

>>16671094 (OP)
>Disillusioned by academia
Break peer review over your knee...drive them from their dusty lairs, hear the lamentations of their assistants.

Leave no credit untested.

>>16686981
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Noble
I know who Denis Noble is which is why I know he's not qualified to talk about evolution.
Expertise is specialization, it narrows your understanding more and more. Generalists are very rare.

>>16687038
>competitors
Students are not my competitors, they're not even in the kiddie pool yet.

>if you don't even look at the ideas, how can you say they are shitty?
I told you, based on previous experience I know that they are either bad or out of scope.

>people with actual talent
If you have talent, you can easily get to the level where you are not dismissed outright.

>you don't actually care what someone accomplishes
You are confused, I only care about what people have accomplished. That's how this form of credentialism works.

>>16687252
>qualified to talk about evolution
Systems Biology is concurrent Evolutionary Biology. Molecular Biology is sequential.
>Expertise is specialization
Specialization breeds weakness, applying specified segmented processes to whole systems while ignoring all other variables.
>Generalists are very rare.
Systems Biology is generalized Evolutionary Theory.

Youre clearly not qualified to know the difference, and are exactly why academia is retarded. Confusing a single Molecular interaction to being the end-all-be-all for whole Environments involving millions of unique Molecular interactions.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Returning_soldier_effect

Also, Im gunna need you to solve this incongruent effect on the Molecular scale, by Friday. Class dismissed.

>>16687265
I am happy you have found your pet shitposting schizotheory, but this is a Wendy's.

>>16687469
>found
Ive been working on this for several years, in that time it has gone from a fringe topic to becoming the mainstream perspective in Evolution Theory. You seem to have confused the receiver with the creator...thats why you say things like;
>but this is a Wendy's.
...instead of broaching the subject field itself. Why are you posting and not filing orders?...get back to work.

>>16687488
Maybe you should actually ask for a hamburger instead of spewing inane garbage, then.

>>16687529
>inane
What is your field of research?..and I want to know why you are posting on /sci/.

>>16671094 (OP)
>I left my highly paid IT job so that I could do grad school in linguistics.
This is so insane as to have to be bait...

>>16671094 (OP)
>I think no one actually cares about you unless you're already some bigshot.
A sign of sheep who can't think on their own. It's like the Mona Lisa. Nobody would care if they didn't already know it. They are literally so dumb that they are just following others to determine if they should be exited for something.

>>16671094 (OP)
You are not entitled to a captive audience, OP.

>>16687542
Your field of research clearly does not involve reading.

>>16687262
>Students are not my competitors

You are trying to keep them from surpassing you. You mediocre shithead.

> If you have talent, you can easily get to the level where you are not dismissed outright.

Flies in the face of human history.

>I only care about what people have accomplished.

No, you only care about what titles they have earned. You confuse that for accomplishments, because you know that you are without any merit.

Your existence is an obstacle to human progress.