ADHD bros. How do we respond?

give me a quick rundown of his argument and its supporting evidence

>>16708453
Dunno, didn't read it. Thought it would make for a fun thread tho. I plan on reading.

>>16708451 (OP)
By not giving attention whores the attention they're whoring for.
>But you're ADHD, you're going to give them your attention anyway
Yes, but it won't be for very long.

>>16708451 (OP)
It is probably just an umbrella of many diseases that manifest similarly, so yeah, it probably doesn't exist, but it doesn't mean the constituent diseases, the symptoms, or the results from different meds are fake.

>>16708471
This is close to the clinical opinion. Any psychiatrist worth his salt knows "the ADHD brain" is pseudoscience and knows stimulants will do something to correct or enhance cognitive functioning in an otherwise mentally healthy individual. It is patients, not doctors, claiming it presents as a distinct disease finding confirmation bias among communities dedicated to it. ADHD being a distinct pathological entity where somehow patients lecture other people they are different and magically drugs affect them differently is nonsense.

It was popularized this way in part to sell it to parents during the 1990s first for CBT by hack psychologists with basically the pop version of the countervailing hypothesis to OPs book (psychologists are basically the mental equivalent of a chiropractor), then by psychaitrists going along to capitalize on the popularity and capture pediatric patients. Early intervention never made sense to me because therapeutic efficacy in years that matter (college and early working years) matter much more than crayon retard time (K-12) and you are severely undermining future utility for a stupid period where performance is strictly performative. Tiger parents need to be reminded that regular school doesn't matter and worst case scenario their kid can just drop out at a later point and take a GED. I don't give a shit if it helps him get a wooden medal for being goody little two shoes in Mrs. Smith's class. Either you agree with me and now share my correct reasoning or you're the one walking out with a diagnosis instead for Munchausen by proxy and a visit from the welfare agency.

>>16708451 (OP)
I disagree with that.
I have adhd so severe only lisdexamphetamine stops my hands from trembling and gives me the ability to sleep and function.

Its not nearly as bad as when I spend a month innawoods working like my great-grandfather did. The moment I return to the city I go to pieces, there's simply too much information bombardment in a modern society, too little meaningful work etc.

I think adhd has been an advantage to humans up until the last 100-years or so.

>>16708451 (OP)
ADHD might not exist as a specific disease. But something which is being diagnosed as ADHD categorically exists. Some people just cannot get shit done without stims.

>>16708489
funny how you can tell who they addicts are, they always know exactly which med they can't live without and always have some sort of hairbrained reason why they aren't addicted and could stop, because you know they've done it before once, but there is just something in the way that is unavoidable and the drugs are the only possible way to cope

>>16708492
Okay? I was diagnosed as a child (neurologists/psychs lots of time in a hospital for tests etc.) but didn't get help since my parents thought pretty much like that lol. Got meds when I was 32.
Felt great living like a mentally handicapped because "reeeeee d-drugs!!1!".

But I'm open to ideas. What would you suggest?
I'm living in Finland and it took almost two years of tests to confirm and make sure I'm not a druggie. Staying innawoods relieves some but not all of the symptoms.
Best explanation thus far is severe adhd.

>>16708493
I'm not gonna unconvince you of what you've already clearly built your entire identity around

>>16708490
this. i can't function doing stuff that's considered 'useful' by modern civilization (staring at a screen for 10 hours a day). but i can fish, hunt and cook all day. stuff that my brain easily releases dopamine for. 1000 years ago i would have just been a hunter, but now i can't do that.

>>16708451 (OP)
My attention span is 18 minutes long, my brother's attention span is 3 hours long, mom admitted drinking while she was pregnant with me but not my brother.

He's a doctor and I barely graduated with a physics degree, adhd is real, its simply brain damage

>>16708483
>(psychologists are basically the mental equivalent of a chiropractor)
they're just drug pushers and quacks.

>>16708451 (OP)
Then why do ADHD meds work?

>>16708512
Brain damage leads to less dopamine being produced in the brain which leads to adhd symptoms, meds give more dopamine which normalizes yourself.

>>16708451 (OP)
Executive dysfunction is real. Psychology as a whole is a fake grift but you can't ignore that there are tangible neurological changes in people with executive dysfunction that can be measured and quantified.

>>16708512
Amphetamines work great no matter if you have "ADHD" or not. It's literally a super drug.

>>16708505
>n=2
Cool story, bro.

ADHD homies be like
>My brain literally is dysregulated and I need stimulants to focus
They also be like
>Look man I'm just hyper focusing which is why I can sit still for 12 hours straight playing call of duty
They really, really hate it when you mention this "hyper focusing" shit is only in things they enjoy. Rather convenient, wouldn't you say?

>>16708512
Because while the "disease" is fake the symptoms are very much real. What consists a disorder in the realm of psychology has a very loose definition and is anything that interferes with your everyday life. They identified some that happen frequently and grouped them into disorders but these groupings are just observational. The underlying theory is poor and research there tends to be non-reproducible.
ADHD meds work in the same way that any other stimulant works even something as simple as exercise or entertainment. People with ADHD have no issue with these type of activities. There is also a giant elephant in the room that ADHD meds work for people who wouldn't meet the criteria for ADHD diagnosis. Why do you think xanax abuse is so prevalent? It's used by healthy people to boost performance.
Saying ADHD is real is like saying body humour imbalance is real because we see people get a cold, then we give them hot soup and they get better since the humours are now balanced. So clearly the humour balancing works, right? Obviously not because we have germ theory with its superior predictive and explanatory power.
Chemical imbalance falls flat on its face when you consider that in other disorders meds have 20-30% efficacy and some are barely better than placebo. I've not seen any research with conclusive evidence any of them are guaranteed to work outside of lithium. Unfortunately, lithium is a poison.

>>16708534
Shut up dumbass, it's simply brain damage, that's all adhd, brain damage induced by the mother while pregnant.

It doesn't surprise me since so many woman secretly do drugs and are on so many anti depressants that the case of adhd born children are on the rise.

>>16708550
This

>>16708490
>Some people just cannot get shit done without stims.

ive been a software dev for 5 years and written close to 0 lines of code without stims. if someone literally held a gun to my head and asked me to code i might be thrilled enough to do it but otherwise its not possible to do tedious mental work.

i think the biggest thing about the ADHD scam is people not acknowledging you can induce it in yourself by being a dumbass addicted to brainrot scrolling and other behaviors. oh yeah and also 'adult diagnosed adhd' is total bullshit too. adults with 0 difficulties in k-12 and perfect grades getting on stims because of the ennui of life? fuck you

and people talking about it so openly and proudly. nigga you have an actual mental retardation, keep it to yourself and be glad its not more severe.

>>16708535
every mental illness has a up side for diagnosis except down syndrome and genetic diseases assuming autism isnt "genetic"

>>16708636
Notice how real mental illnesses actually reflect on your face, whereas "ADHD", "autism" etc do not.

>>16708483
>Tiger parents need to be reminded that regular school doesn't matter
This.

A classical education supplemented by a loving caring family that creates valuable practical experiences is best. Failing that, Montessori or Steiner schools will always outclass any sort of public school and its not even close. The reality is that kids are sponges, they ought to be fluent in Latin by their tweens and doing "college" level maths by age 10, the fact that they're still in nappies by age 3 and aren't allowed to drink alcohol until 21 is pure narcissistic babying not for their sake.

>>16708648
From your obsession with math and alconiggery, I can only assume that you were raised in public school with no parents.

>>16708636
>I have trouble focusing on things I don't like
>I hyper focus on what I like
>I looooove stimulants and they totally calm me :3
Sounds like every rebellious teenage girl from my high school. In other words, I don't think ADHD is a mental illness. It sounds more like stunted development. And if it were a mental illness, it'd be whatever one says the mental age of an adult is that of a teenager.

>>16708659
As usual, the cure is beating until morale improves. People's personalities always fix itselves when subjected to pain that is easily avoidable.

>>16708661
I would argue physical beatings should be reserved for either egregious antisocial behaviors or for repeated behaviors. We (as a western culture) undervalue the power of social shaming, which should be the first corrective measure for maladjusted behaviors. Only when those don't work should the physical beatings be used. In the case of egregious offenses, I question the efficacy of beatings (I think these people are irredeemable).

In an era of social positivity where we avoid shaming, we lose the first line of defense in maintaining socially correct behaviors. Absent social shaming we end up with faggots, trannies, "ADHD" brain-addled doomscrolling zoomzooms, "main character syndrome" (which itself stokes the flames of every cultural divide we have), and ultimately social isolation. Golly, who could have fucking guessed or predicted this one?

When everyone feels like a snowflake due to rampant hyper-validation from their echo chamber social media afforded them, it's easy to "other" anyone who disagrees. To the point where people are disowning their fucking parents for minor differences in opinions.

My point is that we're too far gone. Beatings won't fix these assholes (in general; I think it can fix some of them). Beatings are meant to supplement previously used social corrective methods. They're designed to be escalatory for when earlier warnings were ignored (and I don't mean threats, I mean social shaming).

ADHD
THE TRUTH ABOUT DOES
ATTENTION DEFICIT HYPERACTIVITY DISORDER NOT
RICHARD SAUL, M.D
EXIDST?

>>16708672
Social shaming doesn't work.

>>16708678
It used to. Currently does for Japan.

>>16708678
It only works on children and adults who experienced it as children.

>>16708451 (OP)
>ADHD DOES NOT EXIST
>look inside
>ackthually while the symptoms commonly referred to as adhd is might be presents, current scientific understanding of underlying neurology is very poor words words words
It's always the same shit. You don't believe that ADHD doesn't exist. You believe that ADHD is poorly defined and understood. Those are two very different beliefs. Stop clickbaiting if you want your arguments to be taken seriously.

>>16708692
I experienced it as a kid, and it only made me mentally tough, never giving in. At this point I wouldn't give in even if I was beaten, and I'd use any chance I get to kill everyone who'd even try to.

>>16708453
>>16708451 (OP)
The point of this book is that ADHD has multiple etiologies which get labeled the same disorder. For example, some are genetic with probably multiple different kinds of ailments causing it. Other cases are psychological and others are environmental. This is actually not controversial, ADHD is just the name for a group of symptoms, and nobody ever claimed it was a single disease caused by a single etiology. The title of the book is intentionally provocative but misleading.
>>16708483
The truth is more nuanced than you're presenting. Yes it's true that ADHD is defined by the presence of symptoms: essentially, do you have trouble focusing and does that cause subjective distress, if so you have ADHD by definition. And it's true that there's not actually anything unique about the ADHD brain that makes stimulant medication affect them uniquely, that just being a mythology invented to explain to Americans (who are extremely retarded and uneducated) how drugs can sometimes be good even though drugs are bad. But that doesn't mean there aren't kids who should take stimulant medication and kids who shouldn't.

Your assertion that K-12 is purely performative is completely ridiculous. Obviously the grades themselves don't directly matter for anything, but a child needs to learn each year's material on schedule in order to learn the next year's material. If you don't learn math and literacy on schedule you can't go to college for any real subjects on schedule and are permanently gimped for the rest of your life. A true genius who doesn't pay attention in school still has hope to brute force success in business or a creative venture like Joe Rogan, but that isn't realistic for 95% of kids. Most people are pretty stupid and need to get shuffled through the assembly line to become productive.

>>16708451 (OP)
ADHD is very much real.
Just because some faggot wrote a whole cope book about it doesn't mean he's right.

It's a mild disorder compared to other mental health issues, but that doesn't invalidate its existence.
I'm officially diagnosed and take meds, although not the stimulant kind.
It really helps.
You can literally feel the symptoms go away and feel "more normal".

I used to have a hard time concentrating on work, now that problem is gone.
You can't really deny the real world results.
ADHD is real and you can reduce the symptoms if you reat it properly.
It's clearly a dopamine regulation problem, and the meds that help better regulate dopamine work pretty well.
The theoretical side of Psychology might have to be worked on some more, but on the practical side there's no debate that it's not only real, but that the medication works.

>>16708451 (OP)
Hypothesis: this book proves ADHD does not exist.
Testable prediction: if true, individuals said to have ADHD ought to be able to read the book that claims ADHD does not exist.
Observed result: they fail to read the book, and do so at a statistically significant higher rate than individuals without ADHD.
Conclusion: hypothesis falsified.

>>16708781
This is /sci/ they would believe anything if it was written in a book

>>16708451 (OP)
Why was ADD canceled? What if I have attention deficit while being the opposite of hyperactive?

>>16709000
It wasn't canceled, just merged into a greater diagnosis with subtypes for simplicity's sake. ADHD is ultimately not even exclusively about either attention or hyperactivity, those are just common symptoms.

>>16709012
To be fair, he doesn't have the attention span required to have learned about the difference.

No.

I'm lived the first days of the popularized internet as a child which was very rare in the early 1990s since most internet users back then were adult tech students or professionals on computing.
I'm absolutely sure most people have "ADHD" specifically because they are easily distracted by an overload of sources of data.
Meaning: the "human brain" is the ADHD brain instinctively but it's not designed for the overload of internet data.

PS Personally and because I've had decades at this point to handle the issue I have developed a very instinctive distaste for useless data which is why for me seeing a passing trashy TikTok feed is instinctively blocked out of my brain as purely boring and not existing, however: I have also become "overeducated" by the situation of being constantly bombarded by the "average of internet knowledge" since the 90s that now I feel like nothing matters much and everyone is wasting their time for the most part which is true for the most part but most normies don't get it so I'm systemically an outcast.

>>16708550
The dopamine/norepinephrine (DA/NE) theory of ADHD is well supported. Individuals with ADHD often have many abnormalities in genomes related to DA/NE synthesis, re-uptake, and receptor sensitivity. Each mutation on its own is insignificant, and actually quite common in healthy individuals, but the disorder arises when the patient has a maladaptive amount of mutations.

The attention span of the human population follows a normal distribution. The doubt of whether ADHD is "real" usually stems disagreements/confusion over what level of distractibility constitutes a disorder. American doctors who are sloppy/frivolous when diagnosing and short form social media usage artificially skewing our perception of what a "normal" amount of impulse control is.

At the end of the day, a person's executive functioning skills exist on a spectrum, and getting stuck on defining what degree of dysfunction constitutes a loosely defined label is kinda pointless. If a person feels that this hypercomplex system that demands a hundred decisions per day to function is unbearable, they should have the right to seek help from a relatively safe family of chemicals.

>I've not seen any research with conclusive evidence any of them are guaranteed to work
Everyone's neurobiology is different. Certain ADHD meds don't work for some people because they have a different DA/NE imbalance. For example, a person with a severe dopamine deficiency and a mild norepinephrine deficiency might find Dexedrine more effective than Adderall. The anon earlier who said that only Lisdexamfetamine worked was probably for this exact reason.

>>16708535
ADHD is more than just an inability to focus, it's cognitive dysfunction that often prioritizes short term gratification (gaming for example) over long term goals. "attention-deficit" is kinda a misnomer as individuals with ADHD often exhibit increased amounts of focus on tasks they do enjoy. They don't lack attention, they misdirect it.

>>16708532
This. I feel like individuals with ADHD who like using amphetamines feel the need to gatekeep the drug as if it only works on them. Sure they probably benefit the most from stimulants, but non-ADHD people can benefit from stimulants too. I know many people without ADHD who will take Adderall occasionally to help with a difficult task usually homework, chores, or exercise.

>>16708502
Felt. ADHD is only a disorder because technological society favors a farmer mindset rather than a hunter's.

>>16708493
Oh man y'all have it rough in Finland. All I had to do was 2 psychiatrist appointments and a 4 page questionnaire that the doctor didn't even read. No wonder there's a shortage of this shit.

>>16708781
I always wondered what other people with ADHD mean when they say stims make them feel "normal'. I find it similar to when trannies say they "feel" like the opposite gender despite never experiencing what its actually like. When I take amphetamines I still feel like my same distracted self on the inside but I'm actually able to do what I desire somehow and I'm not incessantly fidgeting, but I never feel "normal".

>>16709280
Lol, I was going to say you sound like you have no friends. Then I read your last sentence. Bruh.

>>16709319
>often have many abnormalities in genomes
Then it's not genetic you fucking clown. That's like saying men often have XY chromosomes (but can sometimes have XX chromosomes).
>The attention span of the human population follows a normal distribution
And yet two hundred years ago, nearly nobody (if not nobody) had an attention span so low it'd constitute having ADHD.
>Everyone's neurobiology is different
Yeah man, I got jello in my brain instead of gray matter hahahahaha that's why I can't focus lolololool gimme meth in the form of Vyvanse pls because I totally need it wink wink wink
>They don't lack attention, they misdirect it.
Oh? So why the spiel about attention span existing on a normal distribution (implying ADHD was people with low attention spans)?

You obviously have an ADHD diagnosis and are a pseud, just like every other retard I've ever seen with an ADHD diagnosis who will defend their meth addiction with shit they pull out of their ass, and misunderstood literature.

>>16708451 (OP)
I think the best way to explain the problem with ADHD is an analogy

CAN'T WALK DISORDER
DOES
NOT
EXIST.

>>16709367
>And yet two hundred years ago, nearly nobody (if not nobody) had an attention span so low it'd constitute having ADHD.
Come on now, you can't make a statement like that without anything solid to back it up.

>>16709455
okay bro, but how do you KNOW that humans didn't have wings and could fly 300 years ago? you got any evidence to back that up, bro?

>>16708489
>only <drug> stops my hands from trembling and gives me the ability to sleep and function.

Just saying anon...that sounds a lot like drug withdrawal

>>16709328
>Tranny here
If you are genuine and just want an explanation, it just comes down to a deep desire to live out our average boring lives as the member of the other sex.
Nobody actually feels anything. That's just an explanation dreamt up by pop culture.

>>16709367
>two hundred years ago, nearly nobody (if not nobody) had an attention span so low it'd constitute having ADHD.
Two accounts by doctors in the 18th century:
1798:
https://doi.org/10.1177/1087054708315137
https://books.google.com.br/books?id=OMAtAAAAYAAJ
1775:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1087054711432309
https://archive.org/details/derphilosophisch12weik/page/206/mode/2up

>>16709367
>it's not genetic
It's very heritable look it up.

>no historical evidence for ADHD
Hippocrates (in Regimen, as translated by W.H.S.Jones) observed that patients with an "overbalance of fire over water" exhibited "quickened responses to sensory experience" and "less constant" attention.

>I got jello in my brain instead of gray matter
I mean yeah. It can be detected with an MRI, people with ADHD have thinner gray matter concentrations around the frontal lobe and cerebellum.

>drug use moralization
Why do you give a fuck what anyone chooses put in their bodies? Yeah I use stimulants and If given the chance I'd unironically choose pharmaceutical D-methamphetamine over Adderall. Real or not it helps people and you having a problem with that is creepy.

>blah blah attention gotcha
It's a good way to quantify slow dopamine release ability. The attention span tests are done in boring environments so yeah people with ADHD do worse on them.

>>16709328
>This. I feel like individuals with ADHD who like using amphetamines feel the need to gatekeep the drug as if it only works on them. Sure they probably benefit the most from stimulants, but non-ADHD people can benefit from stimulants too. I know many people without ADHD who will take Adderall occasionally to help with a difficult task usually homework, chores, or exercise.
Yep. Unfortunately (Fortunately) in our country there's no such thing as ADHD and no stimulants you can buy legally. You can buy oxies and vicodin only if you are having cancer or something. The only thing you can buy is very very very low doses of weak benzos but that's also hard to attain, the don't just giving to anyone.

But yeah every once in a while i wish I could get some adderall when I'm doing a thousand things.

>>16709490
A prominent ADHD symptom is psychomotor agitation (fidgeting) and amphetamines stop that for some. I had a homie that had it so bad he would bite his nails to the root and peel his skin til it was red. That all stopped when he got on a low dose of Adderall XR and his life is so much better now. If you have a problem with people using stimulants to function then fix this gay ass over complicated society we've created. Until then fuck off.

>>16709690
>even if my disorder is made up, my drug use helps me
anon... you're not helping the addict accusations.

>>16709370
Cantwalk disorder is over-the-counter.

>>16709703
I am physically addicted to it. To a minor degree I would say but still addicted. But also "addicted" is not the correct term in a psychological sense because it usually implies that you see the habit as negative but continue anyways. I see my use as a net positive and I'm not in denial so I think that "dependent" is a more accurate term. I've done month long breaks and the withdrawal consists of being a little more sleepy, less productive, and increased appetite compared to baseline, but it goes away in like 1-2 weeks. When you use it in a controlled low dosage it takes a while to build up a significant tolerance. I've built my entire career with amphetamines as the foundation, would not have been able to do it without it.

inb4 "that's unhealthy"
When I'm on Adderall I can actually exercise, prepare healthy meals consistently, stick to a sleep pattern, and maintain friendships.

>>16708451 (OP)
I dont have just a lack of intellect

>>16708512
You do know they gave the same stuff to Nazi soldiers for battle? Blitzkrieg is literally just amphetamines.

Also
>give addictive personalities stimulant drugs
>"yess doctor i feel much better thank you, its definitely helping!!"

This "disorder" is the most jewish phenomenon currently in existence - and Im not saying there isn't something to it, I agree with the anon who suggested that this set of traits was highly beneficial in chaotic environments in which we evolved, the modern society doesn't have a place for these traits anymore, so we give these people class A stimulant drugs to keep them pacified, and we give it to kids to, absolutely peak level derangement if you ask me.
Theres personal accountability to it as well - anons pointing to how convenient it is that you can hyperfocus on gaming for 3 days but not homework are also right, and I don't think any faggot guilty of this deserves any sympathy, and i know for a fact a bunch of "but i have adhd" fags will take stims and play shooter games for hours, followed by an edging session.

Go to a metal festival and go into the mosh pits, it's the only place left for people like us, other than that do something in your life you actually care about and don't do meme degrees just because your mom or gf or whoever said its a good idea. I know it won't fix it but I also don't think meth will, esp not in the long run. And don't ever use it as a crutch in relationships or interactions ("omg sorry i just have adhd"), for any reason, its pathetic.

>>16708451 (OP)
You tell me, I don't have the patience for obnoxious text sizing.

>>16708490
Literally me but with autism and mathematics.

>>16708490
>something which is being diagnosed as ADHD categorically exists.
laziness. retardation.

>>16709817
66 post best post. Amirite?

>>16708502
You think you are the only one? Its called being lazy.

>>16709817
Those are symptoms. The cause is bad parenting. Every single ADHD kid's parent needs to be put against the wall and shot while the kid watches, then the kid should be beaten and forced to mop up the blood and drag the corpse all the way to morgue (intentionally over 50km away).
You will notice that ADHD is suddenly cured.

>>16708451 (OP)
Another question, how to fuck do you even stop paying attention? Are you telling me people just zoned out and temporarily become a zombie?

>>16709984
Apathy.

>>16709974
Can you show us empirical evidence that your solution works?

>>16710027
I live far far away from USA and know absolutely nobody claiming to have ADHD so it is prohibitively hard for me without external funding.

>>16708508
that's psychiatrists

>>16709817
TRVKE

>>16708451 (OP)

True. It's just narcissism/faggotry.

>>16710028
Ah, so it's a baseless claim. Thanks for confirming.

>>16710169
Well, I just found my test subject, now just tell me your address and I'll arrange a test.

>>16708490
>Some people just cannot get shit done without stims.
ever considered that's because they're actually chemically addicted to them?

>>16709690
>Real or not it helps people and you having a problem with that is creepy.
okay meth head

>>16708678
It literally does.

>>16709974
We live in the first world you gypsy egomaniac.

ADHD obviously exists. Problem is, most people have little to no theory of mind, so they cannot comprehend that the internal experience of others may differ from their own. They are nigh incapable of understanding that something that is easy for them, may be hard for others.
This is true for everything, not just ADHD.

>>16710414
Let's pretend I do use a therapeutic dose of pharmaceutical D-meth. Why is that bad? (logically or morally)

>>16709974
>The cause is bad parenting.
you're forgetting about dysgenics. no amount of good parenting can cure someone with a brain that was never formed properly, either due to toxins or mismatched/bad genetics.

>>16710467
Correct. A fact I see rarely mentioned is that brown kids show more ADHD symptoms than white ones but are less likely to be diagnosed due to unironic socioeconomic factors. I personally attribute this to tropical environments selecting more for hunters rather than farmers.

>>16710495
>I personally attribute this to tropical environments selecting more for hunters rather than farmers.

i was going to say:
>i agree to an extent, as far as foresight/focus is concerned. but keep in mind hunters, especially in ancient times, had to have ridiculous amounts of patience while waiting out their prey.
>an ADHD would have absolutely no chance of sitting dead still and silent for hours at a time while waiting for the perfect opportunity.

but then i realized:
>except in cases of smash-and-grab, trappers, and scavenger types, but that's splitting hairs on different types of hunting, i guess.
>so yeah, you'd still be correct since most forms of hunting done in tropical areas are brutish, rather than a game of patience.

>>16710519
I agree. On the point of hunters needing patience, while that is true that is nothing compared to the patience required to plant a seed in the ground and tend to it for half a year, or raising livestock for years before slaughtering it. Hunters, while exhibiting patience from day to day, move around constantly following animal migration patterns and thus exist highly variable unpredictable environment which favors ADHD types. Also, while sitting and waiting for a few hours seems impossible by modern ADHD standards, ancient peoples would have never experience the form of instant gratification we experience today which needs to be accounted for.

>>16709974
>violent fantasy scenarios because people disagree with you on the existence of minor mental disorders
very brownskinned post

>>16710539
alright, you convinced me.

>>16708451 (OP)
>grouping similar traits people is not a thing

>>16708451 (OP)
>>16708490

Correct desu.
I don't deny that a lot of psychiatric diagnosis are borderline pseudoscience and, in many cases, harmful due to almost zero understanding of the mechanisms of action behind them.
However.
If you can prescribe meds that actually help, then the diagnosis has some value. Stims do help ADHD kids. Sped classes, in spite of how much money they rake in from the state and private schools, almost never do.

Of course, there are harmful diagnoses like low level autism, for which there is no medication or real hope of therapy, and which simply leaves the patient feeling defective while also giving them an excuse for avoiding self-improvement and reinforcement of the behaviors that lead to the diagnosis.

>>16710461
YOU NEED DRUGS TO FEEL GOOD THATS WHY.

>>16710606
>If you can prescribe meds that actually help, then the diagnosis has some value.
you're correct in that it's a very results-based science. but just because methamphetamine "helps" people focus (not just ADHD kids), doesn't mean that we can conclude:
>Stims do help ADHD kids.
but then again, the word "help" isn't medically defined. i see what you did there.

it's either they start parenting properly again, or they get the literal axe for being defective. no amphetamines necessary, there is no medical solution.

>>16708745
>If you don't learn math and literacy on schedule
They reteach everything every year because they assume that the kids won't learn.

>>16710440
If you were better at theory of mind you'd be able to find it more often. When somebody "fails to understand" consider flipping the gestalt, much like how picrel can pop in or out. They may understand but they aren't interested in sharing their source code.

>>16710679
And? You probably learned that all drugs were bad as a kid and never bothered to update that belief.

>>16710720
being addicted and physically dependent on any drug is bad. i say this as someone who drinks, socially smokes pot, has tried ecstasy, has no issue popping 3 ibuprofen out of boredom every few months, and regularly consumes 2 bags of tea of caffeine every morning. the difference is i am not addicted to any of them. i prove it to myself by cold quitting alcohol for 3 months, no problem. same with caffeine. you, on the other hand, shriek and cry when someone tries to take your drug away. very few drugs are bad in and of themselves. it's your mentality surrounding your drug of choice that is bad

You physically cannot get addicted to lisdexamfetamine btw. It's literally impossible; you can eat 30 pills and you'll just excrete the excess because you won't have time to break anywhere enough lysine to get an addictive dose of amphetamines.

>>16708451 (OP)
Honestly it might not, I have no idea. I suffer from it though. Severely. It might just be to me though. Opiates work fucking wonders though.

Give me my fucking drugs you dumb mother fuckers.

>>16708745
>etiologies which get labeled the same disorder.
So it's saying that ADHD exists... it just has different names. What a dumb fucking conclusion.

>>16710543
>behavior usually leads to failure to procreate and give fulfilling life to the offspring even if you "succeed"
>minor
enabling cucks like you need violence the most

>>16708483
> something to correct or enhance cognitive functioning in an otherwise mentally healthy individual.
The medince improves “desired” behavior outcomes in students, but actully has almost zero improvement on grades, so you are wrong.

>>16710916
Luckily grades don't matter to the employer.

>>16709817
>lazyness
I will never understand that workist slavish desire to make someone rich who rightfully couldn’t care less about them

>>16710961
I see you were too lazy to figure out how this world works, retardo, take some more stimulants.

>>16710736
>you shriek and cry when someone takes your drugs away
No I don't. Just being dependent on drugs in and off itself is not bad. The harm from dependence usually comes from financial drain and what the user is willing to do if their supply is cut off. I receive a reliable source of my medication through a pharmacy at a low price. If for whatever reason I can't access that, amphetamine withdrawals a relatively mild. It's so mild that experienced drug users will sometimes regard amphetamines as having no withdrawals due to their insignificance compared to GABAergic drugs or opioids.

I think your argument comes down to: "basing your life on something that can be taken away is foolish" to which I respond: do you hold that same standard for other things in your life? It would be like me criticizing you for relying on your car as your sole means of transportation. If it breaks down you would have no way of getting to work or groceries (assuming you live in the US). Perhaps you should practice walking or biking to your destination to prove to yourself you still have what it takes.

>>16710962
Unironically yes. Stimulants allow us to do all the mind numbing, soul draining, and oftentimes pointless tasks that neurotypicals are seemingly able to guzzle for 5 days a week.

>>16710966
I can do anything I set my mind to without drugs. In a better timeline, you'd be disposed of with a Mauser in the back of your head.

>>16710964
>GABAergic
The only people I've ever met who use this term are unemployed (sorry, self-employed) pseuds who are drug addicts.

>>16710969
>I can do xyz without drugs
Congrats, want a medal?

>In a better timeline you'd be shot with a Mauser
If you're implying that you wish the Germans had won then look up Pervitin.

>>16710970
I have a career, why the irrelevant and hostile emotional arguments on the /sci/ board? Keep it above the belt or else you're just here for name calling.

>>16710991
Being a wfh faggot on your own startup is not a career. Grow up.

>>16710991
Germans didn't need to win, only their ideas.

>>16710993
Oddly specific, how'd you come to that?

>>16710996
your vagueness of "career", which nobody with an actual career says (they prefer to be specific) eliminated any possibility you have a legitimate career. the sample size of possible income flows got significantly pared down: what is a fake job that someone would call a career? two come to mind. start-up business owners who work from home, and prostitutes/bloggers. and you don't strike me as a woman.

>>16711001
Well you're wrong Sherlock, maybe I just don't want freaks knowing what I do.

>>16710770
Opiates are CNS-depressing drugs. In the long term, they will impair your cognitive abilities.

>>16710769
Yeah. It's a prodrug and can't be abused with different modes of administration like insufflation. I want to buy it, but that sh*t is expensive for me as an undergrad. Methylphenidate is SH*TTY. Even a 6 mg nicotine pouch gives me better focus than 10 mg IR Ritalin.

A future cognitive scientist will call it the ultimate evolutionary rugpull.

What is the default mode network Alec?

>>16708489
>I spend a month innawoods working like my great-grandfather did.
What do you do inawoods as work?

ADHD is a symptom of modern society. Some of us were not made to sit in office cubicles working 9-5s all day.
t. ADHD

>>16708451 (OP)
>ADHD The Truth About Does Attention Deficit and Hyperactivity Disorder Not Richard Saul, M.D. Exist.
What a weird fucking name for a book.

>>16708451 (OP)
https://ghaemi.substack.com/p/diagnostic-invalidity-of-adhd

get Ghaemi pilled

>>16714643
Psychiatry can't be cured as Ghaemi hopes. Insane beliefs are unfortunately necessary. Part of the job involves arguing with crazy people, but crazy people can't lose an argument. Losing can mean switching bodies: then the Ghaemi-like soul ends up locked up in the forensic unit forever and Charles Manson gets to go to psych conferences and gets to practice on relatively innocent patients.
inb4 no switching bodies: a conversation can change your beliefs and knowledge, and self is a paresthesia.

>>16710991
You mean pervitin the drug they recalled after noticing its remarkably deleterious effects on soldiers' health and combat effectiveness? Damn you got him good!

>>16710769
>>16712229
Day 1 take 50mg of vyvanse, day 2 take 150. Let me know how that goes for you, shouldn't be any meaningful difference in euphoria experienced, right?

>you'll just excrete the excess because you won't have time to break anywhere enough lysine to get an addictive dose of amphetamines.
The amount of lisdexamphetamine at which addiction can begin to form is far lower than the amount at which excess is redundant due to processing bottleneck.

>>16708451 (OP)
Now do autism