Thread 16737844

Is self learning real?
Like, especially for more complicated arts and sciences, can someone be legitimately self-taught?
I want to believe.

>>16737844 (OP)
>I don't need no teacher, no classes, no certificates.
>So let me read this book and do the practice just like the writer tells me to and compare my skill to common standards.
>That means I taught myself, right?
Actually no.

>>16737844 (OP)
As someone who snoozed their way through my BSN and then my MSN (PMHNP) programs, all you need is vigorous hands on experience and you have to learn well because of board exams and checkoffs. What I am saying is that you can teach yourself easily but you have to do it well. I never watched one lecture unless it was required and in-person. Never read a single page of my textbooks except some undergrad pre-nursing classes like physiology and chemistry. Still had to go through both the programs though and pass boards or I wouldn't be certified. Doing very well for myself now. Most of my knowledge came from my RN job on the psych unit.

>>16737859
To be fair, if the average nurse who calls our State Board line is any indication, that's more an indication that you have a pulse than any sort of intelligence or proof of self-learning.
Nurses are some of the dumbest fucks. They can't read instructions.
No offense, I'm sure you're very smart by comparison, but you're an outlier and not the rule.

Yes. But you have to want it and to think its at least a bit fun

>>16737876
Seems reasonable.
Even those who would want a doctor's salary have to at least have some interest in the flesh.

>>16737870
Yeah, honestly it really wasn't hard at all, and you are correct about most nurses being dumbfucks. It would blow your mind to hear the amount of pseudoscience that I hear nurses say, even to the patients sometimes.
>>16737844 (OP)
I guess I do use Stahl's prescribers guide and the DSM V pretty often in my NP practice so it's not like I am completely 100% self taught. There are some books/research that you need to know to be competent in your field of study.

>>16737854
>I don't need no teacher, no classes, no certificates.
>So let me just pay someone to read the material, do the homework and tests just like the teacher assigned until graduation
>That means I l-earned an education right?
Sure why not, it seems like most jobs have very little to do with what is taught in school.
I'm not saying there aren't school programs that don't provide a thorough and necessary guidance for particular career paths,
but the same could be said for plenty of options that can be learned from a 12 year old teaching how to's from their cell phone.

I think education should consider a paradigm that is less focused on memorizing the entire curiculuum with photographic recall, and more on a, "just absorb what you can" principle.
If 2 kids were told they'd be tested over a 100 page book, but
>Kid A was told they can't read the next chapter until they can recite ~80% of the current chapter,
>Kid 2 is told they can just read it however they want,
Kid 1 is going to maybe get through 1/2 the book before the teacher is forced to call it early,
and Kid Other is going to read the book, then maybe brush up on some sparknotes as a refresher and will do pretty well on the test.

At some level, you have to wonder if it's a "subtle" form of systematic sabotage on education that was advertised as a "universally fair equalizer designed to help the disadvantaged and slower learners", when in reality it's more like a very long and drawn out, deliberate academic misdirection. And I don't mean to put down those who's work is directly involved in education and have no malintentions, but somewhere along the way, there are some levels of disconnect that go beyond the classic teaching paradigm "well you won't carry calculators in your pocket everywhere you go when you're older", which was already inherently false when I was in jr.high.

>>16737901
Ironically it's probably a failing of both jobs and education that this is the case.
Yes the degree is a requirement to enter, which means the degree must teach you something or else, of course, the job would just hire Jamal and Jethro off the street, pay less, and still get the job done.
However, most degrees have no practical learning beyond an unpaid internship where you're just sent off to slavery. Normally, an apprentice pays (even if just in labor he gives to his master for free or at a discounted rate) for instruction and experience, rather than just hours upon hours of theory.
Would you hire a carpenter who had a carpentry degree but no years of carpentry experience?
Just my thoughts.

>>16737901
It would be like trying to teach an English kid Spanish and saying
>"no, you can't learn anything about the Spanish language until you memorize the equivalent translation for every Spanish word first"
>can we just move along and I'll learn them as we go?
>"no, in the real world you won't have your googles to help you translate en espaNol an email from Rodriguez in marketing about discounts for off-label prescription medicines".

Let. Me. Tell. You. A. Story.
>be me
>10th grade High School
>Spanish 3
>"for reasons unknown", I did not get along with the teacher
>My teacher was constantly 'corrected' by/sought 'advice from' this one kid who knew spanish better than english, because his mother didn't speak english, so his family just spoke spanish at home, call him G
>He was alright, kinda funny, I didn't have a problem with him or anything
>But there was a fairly 'large assignment' that was assigned over a 4-5 day weekend
>Supposed to translate like ~500+ words, a bunch of different lingual exercises, etc, was ~10 pages or so
>Teacher is big on "just try your best, even if you don't know", to such a degree it's a fault
>Out of this 10 page assignment with hundreds of problems filled out, I had like 4 or 5 I circled that I was going to come back to
>She gives me a 0 for the whole assignment, despite the fact I had like 99% of it completed
>The other kid, G, fills out like 5 problems on the whole assignment and she gave him the full credit(which is whatever, he basically was teaching the class at that point, but the whole thing was just ridiculous)
>Other kids also have up to a page of unfinished work
>I say, no, I'm actually not ok with that, she says, "oh well :)"
>I'm not allowed to drop the class
>I just stop showing up to her class
>becomes and administrative ordeal
>They finally decide to let me drop her class and take Latin I, I think it was
>True story, not embellished for dramatic effect
That's basically how my school career was from beginning-end

>>16737844 (OP)
Are you really self-taught if you use AI?

>>16737945
If you used AI, did the AI teach you or the person who programmed the AI? The learning model? Did you teach yourself and the AI is a tool like a book, practice piece of wood, or pencil?

>>16737901
>it's more like a very long and drawn out, deliberate academic misdirection.
That's obvious.

>"just absorb what you can" principle.
Even the current education system, which is a crime, is not criminal enough to be all about memorization. Dialogue between child and teacher and between children and doing something practical with the text is a huge part of memorization, because memory is easier to build through understanding.

Take for example law school: working a part time job applying the law and similarly arguing about cases with peers and teachers is way easier and faster way of learning all the boring stuff compared to downloading a PDF and sitting in your room all day reading alone like a hikikomori.

If you're motivated, and it's a book-heavy subject yes. Something like Org Chem is very theoretical but also very practical so if you don't have access to a lab, you will miss out on the practical side. Something like mathematics, however, can be self learned to a fairly high level (depends on your motivation and intelligence). You can, for example, fairly easily teach yourself calculus and linear algebra. Then you can learn proofs and higher mathematics like abstract algebra and analysis after that. You will eventually hit a wall but it's important to push through it or at least try to get help. There's no excuse with something like mathematics because you have access to almost every book for free with solutions manuals (libgen/annasarchive) and you can watch lectures online (there are calc, linear algebra, abs algebra and real analysis lectures on youtube).

>>16738163
I feel like your last two examples make the comparison a little hyperbolic. There's probably some middle ground between 'traditional education' and 'hermitage'.

Yes, but you have to apply it or you are just memeing yourself.

>>16738244
That's true even if you're instructed formally.
How many people got A's on tests in even AP courses but can't do a lick of it now?

>>16737854
This is how i learned calculus, I just read stewart

>>16737844 (OP)
Since youtube it's easy to learn pretty much anything. The only requirement is that you're actually interested in it and actually enjoy the time you're learning. Then it's no problem turning on the autism switch and iterate for years until you're at a "professional" level. If you're uninterested or you have that adhd thing where you switch interest every other week then no, better learn that in school/uni/tutors.

>>16737954
you're dumb as shit

>>16739123
And you don't know about capitalization or punctuation, so what does that make you?

>>16739247
this board is informal retard

>>16739432
Sounds like you're too lazy to do basic writing.
I'd rather be retarded than too lazy to hit shift once a while.
Concession accepted, have a good day.

>>16737844 (OP)
Think about it logically: did the first scientist or first inventor need a certification to achieve what they achieved, or did they fuck around and find out? Doing something on your own, certification or not, shows initiative. Simply following what everyone else tells you all the time and being afraid to question the narrative because you’re missing an arbitrary piece of paper that says you’re qualified to opine on a given topic is a sign of weak character.

At one point education was confined to universities or similar institutions because that was simply where the knowledge was. That was where knowledgeable people (the faculty) spent time conducting their studies and training their apprentices (or students), and that was where the libraries were. The view of university as the sole source of truth, or qualification, that has stuck around to this day is anachronous, given the fact that information has been broadly and freely available in increasing volumes since the development of the internet. Now, with artificial intelligence, information on all sorts of topics has never been more widely accessible to the layman. Furthermore, from my own experience with post-secondary education, institutions do more to stifle creativity and gatekeep people who want to do real work. I have been told by my professor previously that the skills she wanted for a summer assistant position were literally up to me to learn on my own time — there would be no training provided, and were not even covered in the curriculum. The contradiction in that mindset is, if I’m studying to be a physicist (for an example), and the job adjacent to physics prof requires skills that aren’t part of the curriculum, what use is the curriculum then in training future physicists?

1/2

>>16740596
2/2
If for instance I have a design for a tabletop experiment that proves one thing or another, requiring expensive equipment that may or may not be available in a university’s lab, why grind through the program and jump through all the hoops for a possible future opportunity to use the lab, if I’m even able to outcompete the hundreds of international students from China and India for a limited number of research jobs, when instead I can try to approach private investors or individual researchers directly for pear review and funding?

>>16740597
I'm inspired to apply myself.
But to play devils advocate, the curriculum might be just fine. Take introductory statistics for example: they may have called some intermediate values SSR RSS SST, which is mostly a lesson in subverting language. All subjects do it to varying degrees. In other words some of the sophists are philosophers.

>>16741058
I have one of those and look like that

It is possible only for a small minority of people.