Thread 16744927

How do people who believe most or all people have lots of libertarian free will explain away the extremely strong link between genetics and obesity? There's overwhelming evidence that people with genes which make them feel more hungry more often are almost always guaranteed to be overweight. If most or All people had lots of libertarian free will I would expect the link between genetics and obesity to not be so extremely strong.
>What about the small percentage of people with genes that make them feel more hungry more often who aren't overweight? Doesn't that prove they have lots of libertarian free will?

I'd argue it doesn't because those people have some other even stronger genetic or environment factor that keeps them more motivated to be thin.

>>16744927 (OP)
Fatness is just the consequence of being a low IQ irrational person

>>16744929
Doesn't really answer my question

>>16744927 (OP)
I have my own falsification of freevwill: how come it is possible for voluntary muscles to work unconsciously such as during sleep, highway hypnosis, or when you have an unconscious reflex, but there is no such thing as broken autopilot syndrome? Nobody completely loses the ability to have unconscious functioning of their voluntary muscles while only retaining conscious "free will" control. And yet the complete opposite does happen, such as in blindsight. Why is nobody losing the ability to react to visual stimuli on instinct while still being able to consciously see and act upon sight with conscious intent?

>>16745315
It does you're just far too stupid to understand.

>>16744927 (OP)
You have to remember we choose our bodies and design our own lives on a soul level. Souls who incarnate into those huge bodies are coming here to learn the specific lessons that come with being fat like that. It's usually souls who were shallow or something in their past lives or didn't love themselves. Being born fat like that teaches you how to not be shallow, it teaches you to love yourself and it shows you how it feels to constantly be bullied and forces you to develop self-discipline due to having to constantly control your weight. There are lessons that come with whatever body or experience you choose. Moral of the story: don't be shallow or tease people and love yourself. Or you might just have to experience a life like that to see how it feels to be teased and bullied and be forced to learn to love yourself and care for your body. There's nothing that evolves the soul more than having a hard life.

>>16744927 (OP)
This experience is teaching him to use his free will to save himself.

>>16745372
Damn the soul testing machine just got fucked over by ozempic.

>>16744927 (OP)
you have free will to stare into the sun too or hold your hand in flames

>>16744927 (OP)
Ozempic and Metformin are miracle drugs, changed my life. Down 20kg and falling. We are just meat based neuro networks, all these knobs and controls up there, but some of them we cant really directly access on our own. Free will is a meme, but its a meme that keeps madness from prevailing.

If you could point to a particular priming event in a child's life that lead him to later become a serial rapist and claim its not his fault because of that, you may be correct but you would not be right. As a society we must collectively act as though every person is an independent agent with free will and punish those who use their free will in ways we collectively decide is inappropriate.

I for one support the causes of freedom and liberty not because I believe everyone truly has free will and will use it appropriately, but because I want to steer the development of society to a configuration I would want to live in.

We are perpetually one generation away from living under an absolute and perpetual tyranny, and I feel it is our duty to be ever vigilant to oppose such an outcome.

>>16744927 (OP)
Stop putting food in your mouth

>>16745384
you don't actually.

>>16745921
Weak minded

>>16745922
hold your hands in flames until you'll need skin grafts then to prove me wrong.

>>16745878
Any side effects?

>>16745372
this is both cope and an excuse for not doing anything to help. cope for when shit is bad, helps you go along, must be a higher purpose, can't be meaningless shit. so makes sense people would cling to it.
and it's also an excuse for whoever can do something to like...not do it
>anon needs to learn, we shouldn't intervene
which is very fucking convenient.
a lot of this "spiritual" bullshit is always hiding something more sinister behind it. like the free will concept, you have free will as long as you do what your masters tell you. if not...you suddenly lose your free will and your soul and they can treat you any way they wish since you have no free will

>>16744927 (OP)
As an american, do you feel uneasy sharing the same oxygen with that thing?

>>16744927 (OP)
You are looking at the wrong correlation. It's not about genetics and obesity, it's about genetics and IQ. Freewill would be stronger with people with higher intelligence that make the conscious realization that though they are genetically predisposed to hunger, they have enough self control to not give into those cravings and take active actions to defuse those cravings such as exercise more and track calorie deficiency, thus defeating the obesity gene.

Low IQ individuals, like yourself, go "Tummy hungry, food good" resulting in being obese bastards.

Pic related.

So freewill would be genetically more correlated with IQ, meaning some people genetically have more freewill than others.

>>16745925
Its actually possible you little pussy

The vids are on /gif/

Also there have existed men that could stop their heart on command, and studies done on these men.

>>16745930
Lesser appetite, Metformin gives me a bit of a tummy ache and makes me need to shit at 3am if I take it in the evening. I was on two metformin 2x daily but changed it to just once at lunch and that calmed things down.

Ozempic made me fap less and drink less alcohol.

Side effects are well worth the health benefits. Metformin is also supposed to cut down your Alzheimer's risk a bunch as well.

>>16746112
Thank you for your response which is on topic. I think you could be right but like I said in the OP post I think most people have little to no free will. Maybe a small number of people have lots of it
>>16745330
Interesting idea but I don't really understand

>>16745330
Your mind is like a pyramid and consciousness is at the top of it
You can’t lose the lower parts without losing the top too

>>16746175
>Interesting idea but I don't really understand
Look up blindsight. People stop being able to consciously see but still instinctively react to visual stimuli. Fascinating stuff. The question is, why don't we witness the opposite? Only conscious sight with zero reflex?
>>16746178
Yep, the conscious processes happen on the upper cortex layers and must pass through the base areas which handle unconscious processes. I think that's strong evidence against free will. Everything the higher level sends down must pass through the lower level instead of directly controlling anything.

>>16746182
>why don't we witness the opposite?
It exists, is called being locked in, and its true hell.

pic not related.

>>16746220
Locked in syndrome? If that's what you're referring to it's actually about the full loss of conscious control of voluntary muscle. I'm looking for the opposite, having to do everything manually with no autopilot and no reflexes.

>>16744927 (OP)
What is the genetic evidence for obesity? Genetics is alleles expressed in an environment. If the environment makes obesity more likely, then those with genetic predispositions will get fatter than the others as society as a whole gets fatter. But this doesn't mean that the environment has no influence.

>>16746255
I was there on Ellis Island during the whole period of mass immigration and I cooked the books to only accept the immigrants with obese genes into America. You can see the evidence in the fruits of my labor today.

>>16746116
Why don't you do it then?

>>16746255
Shut up.

>>16746255
don't see many obese people in NK. the environment has the last say. if you don't have access to enough food you cannot get obese.

>>16746182
>I think that's strong evidence against free will
this concept gives me primitive vibes. the correct perspective is freedom of choice. being aware of more choices gives the "has free will" vibe. having but one gives the "doesn't have free will" vibes. and even with many choices, depends on how heavily biased you are towards any of them. which can happen due to a lot of factors. I think not seeing it as freedom of choice is what keeps everything confusing around this subject. no side has any fucking clue what they're talking about and ultimately both point towards some authority figures on the subject. and it makes sense both parties are confused as fuck, one has dogmatic roots, the other has no fucking idea what they're trying to debate because it makes no fucking sense.
the fact that it has been debated and thought about for thousands of years doesn't legitimize the concept, at all. if anything that's proof it's old nonsense.
you have choices, or not. you understand the implications of them, or not, either way you will choose something. that's all there is to it really. what is more interesting to discuss...is HOW do ideas that might give you unexpected choices pop up in your head. that's more interesting to discuss. low stochastic sampling brains might come off as "lacking free will"

I don't see how libertarian free will can exist without some sort of god or magic or something

>>16746224
Depression is "operating on manual". There's supposed to be a structure that the mind can delegate chores to, but it's either broken or disabled to prevent making a bigger mess.

>>16745878
>Post Ovadia Yosef saying gentiles are cattle
>Ozempic and Metformin are miracle drugs,
Stupid goy.

>>16746786
nta I don't understand
>>16746904
I believe this

>>16744927 (OP)
The answer is obviously that the "free will" purist philosophers are schizos and "free will" can only operate within the bounds of physical biology.

>>16747233
Imagine thinking the initial state of the big bang made you an insufferable frog poster.

>>16747261
What's your better explanation

>>16747551
I think you chose every moment of your life to be an insufferable frog poster.

>>16746224

Our reflexes are buried deep deep deep. Some are even there on brain dead people. So, that's not going to happen.

People after traumatic injuries do sometimes have to re-learn how to speak and walk and shit. And you see babies flailing about trying to grasp a toy. It's clear much of the auto pilot is learned, and that had to be learned before it could be put in auto pilot.

>>16746112
i agree with your sentiment except I don't think its correlated with IQ.
IQ may support freewill.
but I think the main variable is something like psychological resilience.
I know alot of high IQ fags that are cholics , alot of them know what they have to do but lack the will to do it.
usualy becuase of some personality disorder or trauma they need to overcome.
free will is really how hard it would be to manipulate you. or influence you.

>>16747602
How do you increase it?

>>16747763
without the use of medications?
most coping skills for keeping mind resilient
is awareness, and vigilance.
also getting good rest.

>>16747977
I want a drug or supplement that maximizes your free will as much as possible. Ideally you just inject or inhale it and it starts maximizing free will ASAP

>>16747981
probably benzos, or alcohol, or both.

>>16747986
Makes sense

>>16747986
Sure something you can't stop taking without giving you massive withdrawals that can kill you will totally set you free.

>>16744927 (OP)
Why do you presuppose that just because libs believe in free will that they believe everything is up to free choice or not subject to a "tends-to" dynamic? I believe only 5% of our daily actions are truly up to our free will.

>>16747261
that's not the conclusion to his statement. unless you can explain randomness. but you can't. so you'll just guess some shit. which makes your statement pretty much fake news.
you can never go around randomness, it will always fuck with your argument. your dichotomy is pretty much dead. free will makes no logical sense, and your future is not determined, and you can never 100% know what choice anyone will ever make. thanks for coming to my ted talk

>>16749021
you only have access to some of your choices. consciously. that's it.
that is, weighing the information to come up with a choice for your goals.

>>16747981
the best you can get is using your higher brain functions to really consider the implications of the moves that are available to you.
you always have a certain span of possible moves (choices). you are aware of some, you aren't aware of others. you will make a choice, either incapacitated or sober, difference is by being sober you have higher chances of understanding the implications of your choices. so statistically you'll make better choices for your goals, while being sober. or under the influence of something which allows you to understand the implications of your choices.

>>16749021
Do you think this is compatible with Christianity? If we have so little free will how can God send someone born into a Muslim country to hell for not choosing to believe in him?