Thread 16745541

Redpill me on the metric system.

>base 10 for every single single thing is actually kind of shit for everyday usage since it cannot be easily split into 3rds
>the different divisions: centi, deci, etc. serve no real useful purpose since it is already base 10 and can just be expressed as multiples or decimals of a single unit instead, and people only use them because it calls back to the more useful and descriptive Imperial units
>Fahrenheit can be rederived on a desert island easily; Celsius and Kelvins can't
>the lack of metric time speaks volumes to metriccuck's lack of resolve and belief in their base 10 supremacy and the many benefits of not having base 10 for everything

>>16745541 (OP)
1 meter = *checks notes* light traveling in a vacuum, how far it goes in *squints* one two hundred ninety-nine million seven hundred ninety-two thousand four hundred fifty-eighth of a "second"; to define that, refer to a manual about *pulls element out of ass* Cesium and for links to subsequent tertiary definitions and so on

>>16745541 (OP)
American industries that make the switch to metric consistently report productivity gains. This is simply because moving decimal points around is far easier than irrational progressions such as 12 -> 3 -> 1760.

>>16745559
source: I made it up

>>16745541 (OP)
>the lack of metric time
Is an abomination and productivity would be improved if the switch was made to base 10, as with everything else.

>>16745541 (OP)
>Redpill me on the metric system.
Digipill yourself on the true Mitric System.
Base of 10; Life of Sin.
2^3 is 8; so 2^10 is Great.

>>16745541 (OP)
It's fine. I have nothing against it. But I'm not going to switch my weather app to celsius like some kind of communist.

>>16745559
This nigga thinks you need INDUSTRY to move a decimal point. We use AI and CGI to do that shit.

>>16745613
True story. All the long term freezers must stay at -40° and that is it. Do not ask for any more clarification than that.
Some fool going to make me decide if it's °F or °C gets his freezer set to °K. Pay that power bill, Doktor!

>>16745624
>°K
> -
Get off of this board right now you fucking degenerate.

>>16745559
>Studies show those who work at home have higher productivity than those who work in an office.
>Studies show those who in an office have higher productivity than those who work at home.
Both are true statements.

Imperial was made to measure things, metric mas made to calculate things. Turns out that you get enough intuition from calculating things to also measure things, so there's really no need for a seperate system.
But at the end of the day units don't really matter, so do what you want.

>>16745541 (OP)
It's not all that less arbitrary than the imperial system - meters have a stupid origin and there's a lot of retarded conventions about thermodynamic units that are just holdovers from chemfags... but it's ultimately a much more consistent system than imperial where different countries won't even agree on standards for imperial units (ex. US and UK don't have the same gallon).

>>16745556
>BUT WHAT ABOUT MUH THIRDS!?!?
You measure to the nearest 0.5 mm if you're using a standard meterstick or metric tape, or to the nearest 1/32" (~0.8 mm) for a yardstick or imperial tape, because it's a negligible difference for anything that's not high precision work, and for high precision work you're never going to be in a position where you need to randomly chop of your material into thirds.

>>16745641
It seems I hit a sore spot

>>16745641
Yeah, pretty much. You need a common unit for communicating with other people in your field about high-precision technical things or for international engineering projects. For anything else, who cares whether a gallon of milk at your local store is exactly the same in the US and the UK? You're just buying a big bottle of milk. And the fill isn't ever going to be exactly a gallon anyway.

>>16745647
>It seems I hit a sore spot
There's a lot of things I like about the imperial system and I use it and metric interchangeably... but entire 'but le metric can't divide things in threes!!1!' shit is the most retarded nonsense ever. Standard imperial scale tools are no more accurate at dividing something into threes than standard metric scale tools.

>>16745665
>ah yes give me 3.33 meters of that fine timber
vs
>give me 1 foot

>see you in 20 minutes
vs
>dead silence

>>16745678
NTA and I'm against further metricization in the US because there's no point to it and I like having a richer choice of language. But why would you ask for such a silly amount of wood? That's like asking for a third of a gallon of milk. And measuring out a third of either would be just as tedious.

>>16745541 (OP)
It destroys American History.

>>16745541 (OP)
>Redpill me on the metric system.
It's gay.

>>16745628
Irrelevant to the point + that's simply a matter of looking into methodology + the evidence is vastly on the side of metric leading to superior productivity + the US military uses metric for its superior efficiency.

>>16745556
>base 10 for every single single thing is actually kind of shit for everyday usage since it cannot be easily split into 3rds
This isn't an argument for Imperial units because they don't use a consistent base 3 or base 12 or whatever. A pound is 16 ounces. A mile is 1760 yards. These aren't divisible by 3. Etc. Don't pretend the system is logical because it verifiably isn't since it randomly changes the number in every tier. At least advocate for using base 12 or something like that if you care so much about thirds.

>>16745678
>give me 1 meter of that fine timber
vs
>give me 3.28084 feet

>>16745763
Not that it matters to the point but 5280 is a surprisingly flexible number with a fuckton of divisors including 3, 5, and 11, and you can halve it five times. You'd never know just by looking at it.

>>16745763
If all the divisors are consistent then they don't serve any function they might as well not be divisors at all. This is why metric time is retarded. All the different divisors in our time system serve a real purpose and reflect reality. The other metric systems are similarly retarded and arbitrary to varying degrees.

>>16745678
>Give me 12+/-.0313 in
0.26% error
>Give me 3333+/-0.5 mm
0.015% error

Why go out of your way to construct something with such an oddly specific number of meters of fine timber in the first place? Why not use an even 3? For that matter, the same could be said of imperial units - why go out of your way to make something that needs to be cut into thirds in the first place? We're in the 21st century - we can 3D print any shape, cut pieces with literal laser precision, and fabricate semiconductors down to the nanometer... the idea that one of the top priorities for our system of measurement is whether it's good for half-assedly dividing shit into 'kind-of-thirds' is fucking stupid.

>>16745773
>this number isn't divisible by three
>it is you multiply it by three!

>>16745820
Were you dropped on your head as a kid?

>>16745816
>arbitrary margins of error
bad faith argument. Are you even trying

>>16745541 (OP)
Daily reminder that Napoleon Bonaparte came up with the idea of the meter and whatever stupid metric for it they pretend to come up with it still resides on literal stick in the lourve.

>>16745833
Also note that meter is a nonsense word that literally just means measurement. Like it's a measure of measurement. So dumb. The unit of volume, liter, is preposterously named after an archaic unit of weight. The unit of weight, gram, isn't actually the unit of weight, it's the kilogram. The unit is 1000 times the unit. Everything about metric nomenclature is absurd.

>>16745678
>1200 millimeters
>divide into thirds and you get 400 mm

>>16745559
>12 -> 3 -> 1760
Length of my feet, length of my outstretched arms, length of my sprint in five minutes.
[tips up cowboy hat and smirks]
Rodeo science.

if you don't already use metric, you're NGMI.

>>16745949
>How much energy does it take to boil a room-temperature gallon of water?
What a stupid example. It's so imprecisely stated that any precision to the answer beyond "About ten minutes on the stove" is already a fantasy of assumptions. What sort of idiot would agree to calculate such a stupid thing? And this is supposedly such a great example of the power of the metric system that brainwashed metricization proponents are literally taking pictures of the printed words on a page of a physical book? Hahaha.

>>16745831
>arbitrary margins of error
Standard delineation on imperial instruments is 1/16", half of that is ~0.0313". Standard delineation on metric instruments is a millimeter, half of that is obvious.

And you picked the lengths, not me.

>>16746016
I know, right? It should be "How many handfuls of coal to heat a kettle of water at the foothills of the Alps?".

>>16745541 (OP)
Why even use metric?
>hurr durr muh unit conversion
be honest, how often do people actually do this?
meanwhile most of the units have these stupid long names, derived units autistically stick to stupid sizes because the system is made by bureaucrats (room pressure is 101,000 Pascals)

and for all the autism, the "gram" isn't even the base unit of weight because it sounded too much like the french word for 'noble' so the communist revolutionaries made the base unit the "kilogram" (what did this solve, commie baguettes?)

>>16746016
>What a stupid example. It's so imprecisely stated that any precision to the answer beyond "About ten minutes on the stove" is already a fantasy of assumptions. What sort of idiot would agree to calculate such a stupid thing? And this is supposedly such a great example of the power of the metric system that brainwashed metricization proponents are literally taking pictures of the printed words on a page of a physical book? Hahaha.
I honestly can't help you after reading this. I wish you well.

>>16746016
>how much energy does it take?
>about ten minutes
this is why education is so important

>>16745541 (OP)
A useful measurement system for math and science, but not some groundbreaking feat of ingenuity that perfectly links many units together like your average science illiterate metric-tards think it is. Many metric units are just as arbitrary as alternatives, e.g. Celsius/Kelvin.

Units are just tools, so like anything, just choose the right tool for the right job

>>16746051
>>16746059
Whatever you morons do, don't look up the formula for a joule. The cognitive dissonance will boil your little baby brain right out of your eyes.

Why do we have base ten number system instead of base twelve?

>>16746074
Why not? People who earnestly advocate for liters to replace quarts, for duodecimals to replace decimals, for tau to replace pi, are all the same brand of graffiti vandals who just want to piss on society and write over it and make everyone else conform to their respective cults for no compelling or even articulable reason. Sickos, every last one.

>>16745541 (OP)
You have 10 fingers.
Therefore your brain is wired to think in base 10.
Simple as.

>>16746074
Because it's easier to do calculations.

>>16746095
but if you have an actual dozenal system why would there be an issue?
12 is written 10 you just need new charaters for 10 and 11

>>16745678
>dead silence
20 mayamoments

>>16746115
How would you pronounce 100?

>>16746038
MPa is a very useful and based unit, equivalent to N/mm2 so it simplifies so many structural calculations when you have moment of inertia in mm4, etc. There are very nice synchronicities in metric that simplify engineering calcs, even more so in stuff like fluid dynamics where base units based on water make conversion of mass and volume so nice.

Its confusing in imperial that force and mass are both measured in pounds!

>>16746311
Reward for this answer. I will post a rare color photo of Félicette the space cat. How do you pronounce 100 in duodecimal. What a simple question that no dozenalists have even thought about since their only motivation is apparently soulless graffiti and other cultural terrorism.

>>16746423
>Its confusing in imperial that force and mass are both measured in pounds!
Why would you be confused about it in any context where you needed to not be confused about it?

Only a mind corrupted by the demons of Imperialism could ever think that terms such as "half a tablespoon of butter" carry any meaning in the real world. You literally need to have never interacted with butter in your entire life to be so glaringly unaware of its physical properties.

>>16746430
Picrel is just confusing to me, metric doesn't have to go through things like this to make F=ma work

>>16746443
Picrel is clipped to have no beginning or end. F=ma is a linear equation. What are you even talking about lol.

>>16746457
For imperial F=ma to work it actually has to be F=ma/32.174 because of the pounds as both force and mass.

I was primarily taught metric and so the idea of this is confusing to me, especially when first working with lbs via cut sheets and wondering if they are equivalent to kg or N in unit type. Not to mention it will make things even more confusing if g is not Earth based, imperial unit system has problems vs metric if it ever wants to be multiplanetary

>>16746473
Did they not teach you that F=ma predated the metric system? Something isn't adding up here.

>>16746115
you have to be kidding

>>16746311
>>16746426
144 = a gross

>>16746443
you have to have a factor for gravity either way, it's the 32.17 in imperial and 9.81 in metric. both systems need it because the units for length/force/weight are arbitrary.
Unless you define a unit to fit, e.g. the slug, to fit 1 ft/s/s per lbf

>>16746423
yeah it's true MPa works nicely for engineering. But PSI is just so brilliantly simple, even as a child hearing it on mythbusters you can imagine 200 psi. It's also a reasonable size for IRL things.
mass/weight both in pounds is fine either way, you need to have some memorised constant for gravity whether you do it lbs & lbf or kg & N, it just shows up in different places

>>16746515
Very good answer and you win the cat. Is there a pronunciation for 1000 = 1728?

>>16746533
I like how the Karen here is a Commedia devil mask. Italians btfo

A small part of the reason that America has been so vastly more successful than any other country is that we are FREE to use whatever units we want to. We were never FORCED to abandon our traditional units in favor of commie units (SI), but we can use them if we want to.

This teaches a kind of mental flexibility in dealing with physical phenomena that leads one to ask if they are looking at the problem in the right way.

The most common complaint I hear from Eurofags about US Customary Units is that it is too hard to do simple conversion arithmetic and memorize short values such as 5280, 12, 16, and so on. Their "easy" system makes them mentally soft.

There is a reason that America discovers more new medical innovations every year than all the rest of the world combined. There is a reason all the rest of the world copies what we invent first.

>>16746538
I agree with everything except the pharma shilling.

>>16746538
I recall watching a video recently where some useless YouTuber who pretends to be an engineer rants and rails against Imperial units. I think it was Everyday Engineering or something like that.

He starts his video attacking Imperial because of two accidents that supposedly happened because of units. One was a Canadian jetliner fueling fail which only happened BECAUSE they switched to Metric.

The second was the Martian Lander that crashed because the Pajeet NASA hired to program it grew up with Metric and so he simply could not imagine there were any other units in the world even though Lockheed Martin plainly specified that the Lander was was calibrated for Imperial.

So both of his examples happened because of Metric. But he then went on a tirade claiming that our moon landing success was only because of Nazis, as if Von Braun was the only person in our entire space program.

And somewhere in this ad-hominem rant he missed the fact that THE NAZIS USED METRIC. Talk about a self-own!

>>16746539
>I agree with everything except the pharma shilling.
I picked that example only because another thing commies attack us for is not having "free" healthcare.
Their advanced medical techniques are invented by us at our expense and then shared freely with them, and they brag about how inexpensive their healthcare is without even thanking us for it.

>>16746544
I feel like Americans go to Brazil for overtit surgery of the tit and Brazilians go to America for undertit surgery of the heart. True or outdated?

>>16746551
I've heard similar because of the stigma against getting boob enhancement. It's similar to how Turkey specializes in hair-plugs. Balding rich Americans "go on vacation" to Turkey and come back with stubble miraculously sprouting from their domes.

>>16745556
>>Fahrenheit can be rederived on a desert island easily; Celsius and Kelvins can't
How do you figure? They're all defined by the freezing and boiling point of water.

>>16745556
>>the lack of metric time speaks volumes to metriccuck's lack of resolve and belief in their base 10 supremacy and the many benefits of not having base 10 for everything
France tried to introduce decimal time and a decimal calendar after the Revolution.

>>16746558
My hair is sort of unerasable like Derrida's hair and my greatgrandparents all lived around 30 years longer than him I guess because of mitochondria privilege is what people say now but why would anyone pay for a hair job couldn't you just model your head after a basketball star

>>16746519
a dozen grosses is a great gross
(google is free)

>>16746538
metric's advantage is very obvious (easy conversions) for midwits
but it has just about zero other benefits, and Imperial is better in many respects (short names, natural unit sizes, division factors)

in Australia we're officially metric and mostly actually metric but there's still a decent bit of imperial floating around. Quote a length in feet or inches, for example. I've preferred Imperial and especially because Americans are common online I get a lot of exposure to it. (e.g. for body weight/height, I think in Imperial and usually have to convert height to feet+inches and weight to lb)

>>16746541
The errors were not caused by either metric or imperial individually, but by the fact of two different systems- which would be solved if America started using the same system as the rest of the world.

>>16746584
So we have a dozen, a gross, and a great gross to call 12, 144, and 1728. Then what do we call 11, 143, and 1727?

>>16746585
We use the same system for everything that matters. We don't care if a quart of milk is different than a liter of milk and if you care whether we care, you're a weirdo.

>>16746074
>>16746085
>>16746095
>>16746115
Aside from the question of base 10 vs. base 12, what about the western system of new term every three orders of magnitude (thousand = 10^3, million = 10^6, billion = 10^9 etc) vs. the East Asian system of new term every four (wan/man = 10^4, yi/oku = 10^8, zhao/chou = 10^12)?

>>16746592
>zhao/chou
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhao_Chou
Not sure if you're joking but if true I support all local units that aren't imposed on international science or engineering.
Also, if I had a rice dick that was the size of a grain of rice, not to be racist, just objectively, I'd also probably prefer a 10^4 to 10^8 scale to make it sound bigger.
Like how Europeans use centimeters instead of inches to measure the same body part.

>>16746597
No, was giving the Mandarin and then Japanese pronunciation of the character. Pinyin != Hepburn .

>>16746426
That's cat abuse!
>>16746519

>>16746598
Then if people prefer 10^4 and 10^8 somewhere, to describe a big change or crazy difference, I love it and support it.

>>16746602
True but it happened before I was born so I can only do my part looking back, to elevate the cat spirit.

>>16745541 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUpwa0je6_Y

>>16746538
anon, do you know what americans are most famous for? not for any accomplishments, but for being fucking stupid. also, everyone knows most of the smart people in america are actually migrants who emigrated from europe and 3rd world countries only for the money.

>>16746592
Because base 10 is easier applied for day to day tasks (making fast calculations in your head) as well as specialized measurements in specific fields and industries.

>>16746840
You're telling me a bunch of really stupid people made a country that attracts all the smart people of the world? What's wrong with all the smart people? Too stupid to make their own attractive country?

>>16746843
...er, are you responding to the right post?

>>16745541 (OP)
The only system of measuring that makes sense

>>16745541 (OP)
It’s easier to use. That’s literally it, that’s the red pill.

>>16747194
It's not. In what way is it easier to use? It's better for technical and international communication. If you're just a normal person living your life, there's no benefit at all. Not one.

>>16746844
no the smart people are drawn to the stupid people to exploit them and profit

>>16747260
So why haven't the smart moths figured out how to make their own fire?

>>16745541 (OP)
An well thought out system of measurement units, useful in many ways and used allover the world.
Exception is a shithole that thinks they have a better one. Same in sports (eggball) or food (Mcdo). They cannot grasp others using different ones and feel superior because of muuuh,

>>16747370
Is there a word in french for people who want to force french mothers to say quart instead of liter? There isn't because no one thinks "[we] have a better one," we just don't care to have yours poked in our face for no reason.

>>16745541 (OP)
all measurement systems are arbitrary. people can only say the meter is objectively based on the speed of light because the distance its distance was converted to that more objective measurement in 2019 which is why it's the unsatisfying number of the speed light travels in a vacuum in 1/299,792,458 of a second instead of something like an even 1/300,000,000 or even better 1/1,000,000,000 a nanosecond.

>>16745541 (OP)
>>16745556
>>16745558
NASA changed over to the metric system in 2007 and hasn't done shit since.

>>16746592
There should be a new term in an increasing sequence of magnitude.
10 = ten, 10^2 = hundred, 10^3 = ten hundred, 10^4 = thousand, 10^7 = million, 10^10 = thousand million.

>>16747611
Why'd they make the big, powerful prefixes all end with -a to sound like female names, and all the little, dicklet prefixes with -o? This is a very deep and crippling gender abuse against boys, someone needs to go to jail.

>>16747761
50-50 chance our intelligence agencies subverted this into European metric culture via USAID to weaken and feminize European men. Which worked surprisingly well, as we can all see.

>>16745541 (OP)
Metric is easier for precise scientific calculations,
Imperial is easier for practical DIY style calculations.

>>16747761
ok gigolo

>>16745541 (OP)
Ultimately a failure, because we still measure light years in miles per hour.

5.5" is 14cm if you know what I mean.

>>16745949
>>16745950
Metric activists will climb into your kid's room through a window and yell at her for coloring with arbitrary imperial color units like red, yellow, and orange, instead of the standardized nanometer crayons that all other civilized countries use.

>>16745541 (OP)
lame

>>16745541 (OP)
the basis for it is entirely arbitrary, whereas the imperial system is based on actual things that actually exist, for example an adult male foot

>>16745816
>nanometer
heh, not nanofeet

>>16745541 (OP)
Imperial units are defined in terms of the metric system

>>16748161
In the same way that red is "defined" as FF0000.

>>16745541 (OP)
If you measure your dick with it, it's a bigger number in metric than in inches which makes it sound like it's actually bigger.

>>16747829
the engineering equivalent of vegans

>>16745758
>It's gay.

>>16747451
>all measurement systems are arbitrary
True, but you could have less arbitrary stuff if you wanted, you just have to be willing to go through the irritating period where everyone has to transition to the new system.

But we're all lazy cunts who don't like change, so that's not happening. Same reason we have to keep treating dimensions of temperature and dimensions of energy as distinct things just because chemfags are too attached to their fucking daltons and moles and shit. Or why we still have a stellar magnitude system where smaller numbers are brighter because wrinkly astrofucks want to keep doing it the way they've done it for centuries even if it makes no goddamned sense.

>>16747370
Isn't American football basically just rugby but stupid?

>>16747604
I'm not sure if I grasp quite what you're suggesting.

>>16748740
This is what standardization should be focused on now, streamlining SI for crossdisciplinary technical shit. Not radicalizing a bunch of global reddit missionaries who think we should code golf everyone's dictionary from the top down so Russian peasants can't use their own pint sizes in their own local bars or whatever. SI is already being used in every context that should be using SI.

>>16748194
Only if you don't actually know metric and can't picture what 8cm looks like.

>>16746538
>There is a reason that America discovers more new medical innovations every year than all the rest of the world combined.
Because (until recently) we spent twice as much on R&D as the rest of the world combined.

>>16749779
What happened recently that lowered the spend from twice to less than twice? And how was that calculated? And what are the significant figures in "twice"?

>>16745541 (OP)
Pilled. You already showed it

>>16745558
It is fitting given how terrible the material world is
>>16747611
Excellent noticing

>>16747761
*excellent noticing

>>16745694
Fucking lol!!! WHAT history?!

>>16752333
I guess American history isn't defined or destroyed by the metric system, which is by every definition of the word a tool of colonialism and oppression, specifically oppression.

>>16745541 (OP)
The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it!

>>16745541 (OP)
someone cut a stick down to a length and explained 'see thats the meter'. now go derive all other units off that.

>>16752426
> airplanes measure feets and inches
> rockets measure meters per second

Reminder "imperial" doesn't exist since the Mendenhall Order of 1893 that made all the US units derived from metric. Everyone is using metric, some are just doing it with extra steps.

>>16752695
Reminder "red" doesn't exist since Michelson invented the interferometer in 1887. Everyone is seeing nanometers, some are just doing it with extra steps.

>>16745558
Within everyday accuracy, the meter is defined so that the distance from the North Pole to Equator is 10,000 km.

>>16752911
Everyday accuracy is literally the imperial system.

>>16752695
A = 0.3048 B
B = distance light goes in 1/299,792,458 of 9,192,631,770 vibes of caesium

wow so un-arbitrary, A is totally fake

>>16752952
The point is that it's a global standard where the units have regular relationships to each other.

>>16753729
the point is that you are a fucktard for thinking it matters whether a = 2b or b = (1/2)a

>>16753730
It matters whether you have a hundred centimeters in a meter and a thousand meters in a kilometer or 12 inches in a foot and 3 feet in a yard and 1,760 yards in a mile.

>>16753731
Matters to what? If you're using a yardstick to measure out a mile, you have other problems.

>>16753751
It makes the math easier. Similarly with 1000 grams in a kilogram and 1000 kilograms in a ton vs. 16 ounces in a pound and 2000 pounds in a ton (and apparently there's nothing smaller than an ounce, you just have to divide it by half repeatedly- no wait, google says they exist, they're just never used).

>>16753754
What math? What math are you pretending you're doing where you're measuring out a ton of something with a teaspoon? Lol what.

>>16753762
You've never had to add or multiply weights of less than a pound that add up to more than a pound? Or work with lengths where feet and inches are both relevant?

>>16753763
Not at a magnitude of difference that the prefix kilo would help me with. You have?

>>16753767
By that do you mean not at a scale where kiloounces would be helpful? Well yeah, if we were making a new base 10 system taking imperial units as the base the starting point would probably be pounds, and we'd work in centipounds and millipounds. (But even then the imperial units can't be correlated with each other like metric units can.)

>>16753781
I'm saying I reject the hypothetical completely. That converting between ounces and kiloounces, or between millipounds and pounds, is an equally implausible conversion, in that no one would ever use a measurement size of one to measure out a measurement of the other. You're not making anything easier for yourself by making that conversion easier because you're never actually using it outside of a very technical field that already uses SI.

>>16753787
Again, have you never been in a context where weights of less than a pound were added or multiplied to a pound or more?

>>16753789
Not at a magnitude of difference that the prefix kilo would help me with. You have?

>>16753791
If we worked in pounds and millipounds then by default anything smaller than pounds would be measured in milligrams, just as weights smaller than a kilogram are by default measured in grams.

>>16753794
In what context would I need both pounds and millipounds? I'm saying the conversion factor itself is silly and pointless. Dividing a pound into 1000 pieces and then working with larger magnitudes of those pieces serves no point and makes no one's life any easier, outside of any specialized field that already uses SI.

>>16753798
It makes the calculations easier- if one widget weighs 150 millipounds, you know instantly that ten of them weigh 1.5 pounds, whereas if one widget weighs 3 ounces you know that ten of them weigh 30 ounces, which is one pound and 14 ounces, and then you have to figure out that 14 ounces is 7/8 of a pound, 7/8 in decimals is... (an eighth is .125, subtract that) .875. (Metric is still easier overall than decimalized imperial because how the units directly correlate with each other, though.)
Like, obviously imperial works- people use it every day. But that doesn't mean it's not a worse system than metric.

>>16753801
Why would I ever need to care if 10 widgets weigh 30 ounces or 150 millipounds?
>But that doesn't mean it's not a worse system than metric
Imperial is worse for the things it isn't used for and not worse (sometimes a lot better, color being the most salient example) for the things it is.

>>16745613
Ironically °C isn't metric at all. If it were imperial it were the only "natural" of all.

>>16753806
>Why would I ever need to care if 10 widgets weigh 30 ounces or 150 millipounds?
Because you're trying to load boxes of 10 widgets and your equipment is rated for a certain capacity, say? Why do you need to know how much anything weighs?
>Imperial is worse for the things it isn't used for
Wouldn't it be simpler to have one system for everything?
>color being the most salient example
I wasn't aware there was such a thing as imperial and metric color, I'm used to just working in RGB or CMYK.

>>16753814
You just use a scale for that, that reads out the weight in whatever units are relevant.
>Wouldn't it be simpler to have one system for everything?
No. Your value judgment is that simplicity qua simplicity is good. My value judgment is that, all else equal, I'd rather have more words I can say the same thing with.
>I wasn't aware there was such a thing as imperial and metric color, I'm used to just working in RGB or CMYK.
SI partitions the visible spectrum by measuring wavelengths in nm.

>>16753824
>You just use a scale for that, that reads out the weight in whatever units are relevant.
Why bother if you already have the weight of one box on the package?
>No. Your value judgment is that simplicity qua simplicity is good. My value judgment is that, all else equal, I'd rather have more words I can say the same thing with.
Measuring system are not language.
>SI partitions the visible spectrum by measuring wavelengths in nm.
And the alternative is?

>>16753830
>Why bother if you already have the weight of one box on the package?
Quality control? You're not in the manufacturing business, I take it?
>Measuring system are not language.
One pint, half a quart, two cups.
>And the alternative is?
This fruit is green when it's not ripe.
Can you hand me the yellow pad of paper over there, please?

>>16753842
>Quality control? You're not in the manufacturing business, I take it?
If you're going to weigh them wouldn't it be easier to do so individually? If you weigh a whole pallet and it weighs more or less than it should you're going to have to weigh the individual boxes to see which one is the issue. (And if some weigh more than they should and some weigh less weighing the whole pallet might not catch the error.)
>This fruit is green when it's not ripe.
>Can you hand me the yellow pad of paper over there, please?
Yes, obviously common language color terms are always going to be imprecisely defined, but it's useful to be able to point to exact values when needed, whatever you call them. (And that's not imperial any more than it's metric.)

>>16754031
You just use a scale that prints whatever you need it to. It's never easier to divide something into 1000 pieces and glue 90 of them together to make a twelfth, in the real world, unless you're communicating in a journal with other countries or trying to buy, sell, or install an infrastructure between countries.
>(And that's not imperial any more than it's metric.)
How so? Red is literally an imperial unit of color that can be converted to orange by mixing it with another unit, yellow. How is that any different than cups and quarts and pints?

>>16754080
>How so? Red is literally an imperial unit of color that can be converted to orange by mixing it with another unit, yellow. How is that any different than cups and quarts and pints?
What description of the US customary system, or the old British system, includes this information?

>>16754088
None of them. How does that matter to the point that nanometers are a worse language to talk about colors in than a system that measures the visual spectrum by nm?

>>16754099
My point is that this isn't imperial vs. metric (since it's not imperial) and using metric does not require you to talk about colors only in nm.

>>16754107
>using metric does not require you to talk about colors only in nm.
Expand on this. Maybe we agree.

>>16754114
What I mean is, you can use metric as your only measuring system and still talk about colors in common-language terms. (As far as I'm concerned, color terms belong to common language; any attempt to strictly define them in wavelengths is only an approximation, as the real definition of "red" is "which things English-speakers call red". (Note I specify English-speakers- different languages divide up the spectrum differently, not always even in the same number of slices, and not always strictly based on wavelength.).)

>>16745556
Do eurocucks have difficulty telling time? Base 60 and base 12 must be so foreign to them.

>>16754116
Why is using red as a color grandfathered into your system, but using a pint as a drink isn't?

>>16754122
Because volume is volume but colors were never actually defined in terms of wavelength? (Also half a liter is almost exactly the same amount as a pint anyway.)

>>16754125
Volume was defined in terms of how it was used. Like everything should be. Half a micrometer is green. You also can't see half a half a micrometer.

>>16754131
But my point is that, if a pint has an actual consistent definition, it can be converted to metric losslessly. (If it doesn't have a consistent definition, it's not a very useful unit.) You cannot convert natural-language color terms losslessly to wavelength measurements, because they were never actually determined solely by that.

>>16754139
My point is why would you possible care?

>>16754150
Care about which, the measurement system that's used? Because metric makes all the math a lot easier and at this point it's what everyone else is already using.

>>16753731
>misses point completely
it doesn't matter if you define a foot using a metre or the other way round, they both are defined as some fraction of the speed of light and you could just as well define the metre of the foot and nothing would change

>>16754158
Yes, the choice of base-level unit is more or less arbitrary, but using imperial-sized units decimalized would be pointless because no one else is doing it so you couldn't communicate.

>>16754155
It's what everyone who needs to use it already agree they should use. Who isn't? I'm saying who cares whether or not you're a dictator telling other people how to measure things. I side with them over you.

>>16754162
It doesn't matter in the slightest what units people use if their decimal accuracy doesn't matter to your life.

>>16754163
Except for the cases where they haven't, in some cases causing major issues.

>>16754168
That doesn't exist and if it does, for the sake of international unit cooperation, I agree that it should be defined in SI

>>16754169
Are you forgetting the disasters in space caused by unit discrepancies?

>>16754239
No, I'm saying that all space shit should be conducted in SI and that it is.

>parsecs are SI
Nope.
>earth masses are SI
Nope.
>Janskies are SI
Nope.
>Solar luminosities are SI
Nope.

SI elitism is for weak-minded children. Adults use any units they want to. The USA figured this out long ago because we are simply better.

>>16754162
You mean I can't just use 10-inch long feet and have 10 ounces to a pound and be readily understood?
Damn... hope they understand me when I use the 12-mm long cm

>>16754118
>Base 60 and base 12 must be so foreign to them.
We use it in day and hours. What is here your retarded way to avoid "European units"?

Tell me again anon how I couldn't handle the database and the variables to know who when and why will kill his wife

>>16754515
and over here angles are measured in a 360° system (except in survey were a 400° system is used for practical reasons).

gentleniggres, please, at the very least we can all agree that these are bemusing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkfIXUjkYqE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg7xe8MkJHs

>>16754642
These were fun, and so was how you pronounced the word so.

>>16754515
>What is here your retarded way to avoid "European units"?

>>16754709
You mean doing my own research?

>>16745541 (OP)
In the current year? It's a way for whoever's saving this data to make people self identify on the record as being problematic or obedient. There's no other reason to talk about it, beyond the intrametric context of this guy's post >>16748740

>>16745541 (OP)
It's superior for precision and unit conversion, but less practical for "everyday" measurements.

>>16754883
It's better for unit conversion only if you're converting between units no one would ever need to convert between.

Metric is super easy. No nasty weird numbers to remember.
All you need to memorize is that a second is 9192631700 vibrations of a cesium 133 atom.
Then you need to remember that light moves 299792458 meters in a second and you're all set!
It's not even slightly stupid.

>>16754246
Except when it isn't, as in those cases.

>>16755057
Nobody needs to know those for day-to-day use, since you need advanced laboratory equipment to even rederive the units from those figures anyway. They're just for the sake of having something based on physical constants and as such the same for all of time and space.

>>16745541 (OP)
Metric for science and precision, imperial for practical and every day use. Both have a use

>>16752952
A is B with extra steps, thank you for agreeing.

>>16753730
>I don't understand derivatives
b is a function of a, but a is not a function b.

>>16752700
This but unironically

>>16755057
Yeah i much prefer feet, which are defined as length of a foot. I use toddler feet when selling rope so i earn more for more feet sold, i use your mom's gargantuan feet when buying rope so i only pay a tiny fraction of that.

>>16755619
nigger you're retarded
>ooh imperial is defined in metric
yeah, and what's metric defined in? A fraction of the speed of light in some amount of beryllium vibrations. You could equivalently define Imperial so, and define metric off of it. (Hence, it doesn't fucking matter)
>derivates
stfu, it's not about derivatives
>functions
nigga it's a simple ratio, for any f(x) you have a unique f^-1(x)

>>16745541 (OP)
America is so fucking dumb

>>16757988
Then why do all the anti imperial arguments in this thread take one of two forms?
1. it makes it easier to do a nonsensical conversion no one would ever do.
2. it can be used to help people cooperate better in contexts where it's literally already used for that even in America?

The thread is basically just a honey pot for scientifically literate Americans to roast scientifically illiterate Europeans and American redditors for being dumb.

>>16745558
>and so on
imperial is based on the same system you stupid bitch

>>16745541 (OP)
The big advantage of the SI is the strict definitions of the unit symbols, among other lexicographic conventions, which unfortunately many people do not follow.

The disadvantages:
Long unit names, prone to get abbreviated, causing ambiguity
The kilogram is a base unit but has a prefix
Core system joined to the decimal system, preventing use of other numerical bases
Legacy metric units that aren't actually part of the SI, such as the liter and the hectare
Adaptations of non-SI units such as cups, table spoons, tonnes
Use of “µ”, which often times gets replaced by “mc” or “u”

Proposed improvements:
Rename the kilogram so that it doesn't have a prefix anymore
Make the prefix system modular, so that any numerical base can be used
Create options for unit names to not be case-sensitive, eg megametre (Mm) vs millimetre (mm)
Enforce the inclusion of all characters useful to the SI in keyboard layouts, such as µ, Ω, middle dot, non-breaking space, etc


I recall seeing a jewelry store advertising how they bought gold at like 58$/gr (in Canada) if I recall correctly. The issue is, “gr” is the symbol for “grain”, which is 64.79891mg, as opposed to “g” which is the one and only valid symbol for “gram”.

The SI is trying to be better than people can keep it.

>>16745949
>>16745950
honestly i feel like the whole world is slowly moving towards using an ugly deformed child of metric and imperial combined

>>16759156
>>16759159
You have a deranged perspective of time. Imperial came first. SI is just a cool, autistic way to retrofit it, so you can have extreme precision for extremely autistic endeavors.

You also have a deranged perspective of beauty. No one needs a system that can express the volume of liquid in a milk bottle to arbitrary precision by moving the decimal point super-easily between kiloliters and nanoliters. It's utterly useless. Expressing the fill tolerance for a milk bottle in small unit fractions of ounces is fine. That's why we laugh at you when you demand we subvert our beautiful language to your gray goo autism by arguing about decimal points.

>>16759157
I like this as a neo Monty Python skit, before Cleese became a deranged TDS'd anti Brexit shill who completely sold out the one element of satire he was so good at.

>>16745763
You know what's not logical? Forcing bytes into units of 1000 instead of 1024 even though the only people counting are computer scientists.

>>16761088
Commonly, base-1000 prefixes are used as base-1024 prefixes, but with “K” instead of “k”, which does cause ambiguity.
However, if you want to use explicitly and unambiguously base-1024 prefixes, you can use these:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte#Multiple-byte_units

eg
KiB = 1024 B
1 MiB = 1.048576 MB

They're not uncommonly used, and they are standardized by the IEC, so using them is in no way a form of cheating.

They tie in well with the second proposed improvement I stated:
>>16759157

>>16745541 (OP)
Literally doesn't fucking matter but all natural constants are adapted to metric units and it will suck a lot of ass to redo it.
Energy of an electron is hbar^2k^2/2m*, good luck doing anything with imperial units. And then when you add exp(E/kT) and so on things get even shitter

>>16745541 (OP)
It literally does not matter and everybody arguing for or against a specific system in this thread is an idiot. As long as you know what you're talking about and the guy you're talking to knows what you're talking about then that's it job done.

>>16761250
>arguing for or against a specific system in this thread is an idiot
Isn't that the essence of this stupid site? The condensation of stubbornness, ignorance, apologeticism and Muuh trust the gobernet in it's pure form?

Metricucks have to make all sorts of concessions and exceptions to get their system to work out nicely. For example according to their own rules, the SI unit of mass should be the gram- the unprefixed base unit. But they make the SI unit the kilogram because many equations work out better that way.
When they brag about supposed "consistency" (>>16745949), what they really mean is "In metric, 0.001L of water occupies 0.000001m^3, weighs 0.001kg, and requires 4.184J of energy to heat up by 1 degree centigrade, which is 10 one thousands of the difference between its freezing point and its boiling point." Does this sound like it's something to boast about?

>>16761487
There's also an argument to be made that, by making it so easy to "move the decimal point," you're rather more likely to let a devastating error slip by because you're less likely to double check your math.

>>16745558
1 inch = *checks notes* 0.0254 meters

>>16761511
>yellow = *checks notes* 0.00000058 meters
Lol, no, yellow is yellow and an inch is an inch, no matter how you define it in cesiums per light.

>>16747244
Even the ordinary person needs to do conversions and simple math now and then.
It's useful to know that one ton is 1000kg etc.

>>16761527
How is it useful to know that? What sort of necessary conversions are you ascribing to your ordinary person?

>>16761533
I'm gonna say that if people in general don't know conversion factors between big units and everyday units, it's gonna be easier for the government to lie about large-scale projects, kind of like how some drug dealers will lie to their customers about how many grams there are in an ounce.

>>16752952
I'll completely agree that redefining all the metric units to be in terms of fractions of physical constants is dumb, but the only alternatives are
a) defining units in terms of "this stick I like" or "this lump of stuff under a glass" (which is what we did for most of the last couple hundred years) or
b) defining a new set of units based on nice integer multiples of natural constants (which everyone's too lazy to do)

>>16762851
these days everything is just defined as, that stick i liked defined in terms of light, still pretty retarded. all they did was find a more stable rod.

>>16762851
I think my point has been unclear.
It's a super-common metricuck gotcha to say imperial is defined from metric.
I'm saying it doesn't fucking matter and is equally arbitrary either way because A = bla * C, B = bla * A is the damn same thing as B = bla * C, A = bla * B

>>16745556
The original measure of time was created by God on the 4th day (Sun, Moon, stars). Man was created on the 6th day, and therefore already had the perfect scale for measuring time. It was corrupted by Man (influenced by Evil). Don’t know history of metric system, but if any measuring system is not based on the Perfect one, can’t be “good.”

>>16762650
Knowing that 1 = 1000 instead of 1 = 2000 makes a difference somehow to whether you believe a government's lies?

>>16762864
True

>>16762878
The only measure of time that matters is whether it's dark out or it's light out.

>>16745541 (OP)
The real redpill isnt the metric system but SI.

>>16763211
Is there a difference?

>>16763332
metric system was some 1790s shit that included the metre and kilogram as well as some other stuff that isnt used anymore. SI was invented in 1960 and is the system we use today. all that "mega" "giga" etc is SI

>>16763363
Most people understand metric to mean SI.

>>16763082
Yes, presuming you meant to include units in those equations, which are otherwise false.

Any time you're unequipped to call someone's bullshit is an opportunity for them to rob you.

For the value of a short ton, for example, let's say you have 3000 lb of scrap copper to sell to the recycling center, and they pay per ton. You should be payed for 1.5 ton, but if you're uninformed, they may tell you that 1 ton = 4000 lb and pay you only half of what you're owed.

Information is power, and keeping things complicated is a way for those in power to keep power.

>>16764229
If you're getting paid by the ton, you don't need to convert it to kg.

>>16764235
That's besides the point. The point is the easier conversions are to learn, the more people will know them, and the more will those in power be held accountable.

>>16764256
I'd argue it's the opposite. The easier conversions are to learn, the more those in power will abuse them and never be held accountable for it.

>>16764258
Do you mean because with conversion factors equal to powers of ten, it may be easier to overlook false conversions because the non-zero digits stay the same anyways?

Also, better example than pound per short ton vs kilogram per megagram:

US gallon per cubic yard vs liters per cubic meter

201.(974025) US Gal = 1 cu yd
1000 L = 1 m3

>>16764284
I mean I'm willing to argue the opposite of whatever you're saying. Let's start with a "false conversion," what is that?

>>16764290
An inaccurate conversion.
eg
100000000 ml =10 m^3
When it's actually 10000000 ml = 10 m^3
Or, better written: 10 000 000 ml = 10 m^3

A false conversion can be off in any way, but I chose to show one where it's off by a factor of ten.

>>16764284
US gallons suck. A UK gallon is 10 pounds near exact.

>>16764305
100000000 ml = 1E8 * 1E-3 L
= 1E5 L = 1E2 * 1000L = 100 m^3

>>16764284
US gallons suck. A UK gallon is 10 pounds near exact.

>>16764305
Yes, I'm saying if you make a mistake in moving a decimal because moving a decimal is easy, you'll be less likely to control your mistake.
>>16764623
>>16764672
What's near exact mean

>>16764690
it means it's about as exact as 1 cubic metre of water weighing 1000 kg
(i.e. both are slightly wrong and the exact answer changes with temperature anyway)

>>16745541 (OP)
It's just a common system almost everyone agreed to use. Most pros and cons are minute and irrelevant, the only thing that matters sticking to one thing to avoid this mixing of units hellscape. I wouldn't even care if everyone adopted retarded amerimutt system, just keep one fucking standard for once, for fucks sake.

>>16759313
>Imperial came first
no shit you fucking retard
im saying you can base any measurement system on any other measurement system
you can literally reverse this post
>>16745558
or use any type of system you want and the post still reads the same
>metric bad because xyz
ok well everything bad because xyz
its a universal critique
dumb fuck
>its useless
>>why?
>because i say so
ohhhhhhh ok
fuck, i didnt realise it worked like that, my bad
imperial is useless because i say so
huh look at that, i guess its useless and you have to concede.

>>16746074
Base 8 is appealing

>>16746840
You mean the white people rhat immigrated from Europe were smarter than the white people that were indigenous to North America?

>>16767231
>im saying you can base any measurement system on any other measurement system
Why are you saying that? Did someone say you couldn't?
> >>16745558
> invents conversation with self